Why does the Western side lack so much skill and talent when

You're just a biased weeb

>>4723396
/thread

because america is still too sensitive about sex in general.

why do you think they let gruesome deaths on tv without problem, but they lose their shit when something erotic happens?

Western producers just prefer to do their sex in live action. Game of Thrones would have been an anime if it were made in Japan.

Speaking as a western porn game dev we just don't have the money. Games and animation take teams of people and lots of money. Money we simply do not have. That's it.

Even the Japanese studios are running out of money. Hentai audiences are a niche of a niche. Western animation studios rely on toy sales and other merchandise to justify a cartoon's budget, neither of which can exist for pornography. It sucks because I would love a hentai in the style of Batman the Animated Series but who's going to pay the $300,000 minimum to make it if there's no chance to turn a profit?

>>4723667
But why Japan has more money for that? Or at least, why does nipland has better results when it comes to erotic animation?

>>4724243
Bigger market because they never suffered under the comics code or obscenity laws, which meant that they were never reduced to kids market.

Also the western animation studios were devastated by outsourcing in the 80s because of the same exchange rate problems the auto industry faced, which meant that the jobs outlook fire talented illustrators and animators was dismal, which reduced the talent pool

>>4723585
/thread

>>4723667
I'm sorry anon but the average doujin artist that doesn't charge jack shit UNTIL they are done and ready to sell seems more passionate and talented than your average patreon/paywall western equivalent

>>4724500
oh yeah as an example our dear seismic that was poor as fuck bought a motorcycle and moved to a better home with his new game money. success AFTER delivery.

>>4723364
>Why does the Western side lack so much skill and talent when it comes to porn?

I think the better question is why do the Japanese think half this shit is good

Money. The answer is always money. Artists are scared shitless of never finding any professional work if anyone finds out they made smut in the past. Even moreso with drawing copywritten characters (although this is quickly fading away).

Japanese studios are probably going to get out of the hentai game too pretty soon. There's no money to be made anymore. Nobody pays for porn these days.

I mean there's certainly a lot more stuff made in Japan but all of the best written smut comics I've found were western made.

Don't get me wrong, when it's bad it's so very bad whether it's japanese made or western made. When you get to higher quality stuff though you can find a couple of actually good western comics whereas nothing Japanese I've ever found can break through to the point of being great storytelling rather than just, "good for porn story."

Why does Japanese live action porn suck so bad?

Censored to fuck and cringeworthy performances all around.
Also the acting range of the women seems limited to mewling cat.

Western live action porn by comparison is a whole lot better on average. Japanese live action porn is mostly unwatchable.

>>4723364
Japan has a really robust artist scene. Artskills and drawing are given a lot more focus in Japanese schools than Western schools, so more artists get to develop and mature. natch the porn art scene grew with the artist base

>>4724586
/thread

>>4723585
seconded. Europe is much better about this than the US, so you can't way Western artists. just American

>>4724243
because the japanese will pay for the things they like. its as simple as that. if they want something, they will buy it. Americans are used to getting entertainment for free. They have been trained by TV and radio to think entertainment is a public good, or something. also, our Protestant based culture values hard work. creating art is considered selfish and easy, further devaluing entertainment.

consider the dominant distribution for anime in Japan is Bluray sales, while in the US it is streaming services. Niche products get made in japan because fans will buy them, putting cash right into the creator's pocket. in the US money comes through ad revinue, or subscription services, placing levels of middlemen between the fan putting out cash and the creator getting any of it.

>>4723364
It has gotten better.
We now have good western artists who don't draw nothing but shit fetishes or furry.
Maybe in a few years.

>>4724613
there are quite a few hentai that are good for the stories, but you are right: most of the truly great stuff is Western. Especially when you are looking for stories that don't have the skin-crawling tropes that are in almost every hentai. its weird that a country that puts out so much porn is so viciously misogynistic and regressive about sex.

one thing about western erotic comics, though, their sex scenes are all so short! characters will have sex for three panels, and then go about their adventures. Hentai will spend page after page on beautiful layouts depicting sex from every angle and lavish detail

>>4723364
Too much tumblr influence in America so Americans only draw stuff like futa and furry shit.

>>4724639
>Western live action porn by comparison is a whole lot better on average.
Full of niggers and all the women look like trashy whores (they are, but they don't have to show it).
>>4724714
>so much porn is so viciously misogynistic and regressive about sex.
Yes, if you're the type of person who's concerned about porn being "misogynistic" and "regressive" then you'll love western trash.
>>4724721
>Too much tumblr influence in America so Americans only draw stuff like futa and furry shit.
Correct! And the ones that don't draw that still draw like ass.

>>4723364
No comiket.

>>4723364
Because you can make a career of drawing porn in Japan to the extent official hentai magazines can be found in wrapped plastic in like convenience stores right alongside the usual 3D porn magazines.

Japan has no problem with a hentai artist quitting hentai to go mainstream either like certain Jump artists like Tosh.

Also, comics scene isn't as varied and ambitious as Japan in America.

It's basically just capeshit Hollywood is interested in.

Unlike in Japan, where live action TV shows can be made from manga, you won't see Hollywood making a TV show about a comic that isn't capeshit anytime soon.

I feel like this is because in Japan, they have more normalfags among their porn artists, you know people who you couldn't tell that they draw porn for a living: no dyed hair, no weird clothes, etc

Meanwhile, the Western artists you see in America all look like the people you might have avoided in highschool so it makes it hard for American normalfags to accept them. They go out of their way to be look different instead of blending in.

>>4723364
no funding

>>4723364
You forgot tumblr nose.
Western hentai is and always will be horrible. There are some rare exceptions, but those artists are usually professionals or have stylized art. Compare a single page of Hentai Foundry to a page of Pixiv and you can see the difference in line quality, color quality, and direction.

Hell, even shitty Japanese drawings have more life to them than westerners.

In a nutshell, for the blind kids:
> Western
Tumblr nose syndrome
Too much soft shading
Drab color choices making things look like its in fluorescent filter.
Puffy lips
Rounded eyes
Rounded nose
Too much detail on the nose
Rounded chin
Tries to mix in realism from a cartoon first teaching.
Unrealistic body structure, mostly because of the above.
Muscle tones that should not exist.
Fat that does not exist.
Leans towards futa most of the time

> Eastern
Sharp nose
Sharp chin
Sharp eyes, even when rounded
Vibrant color palette
Has soul
Mixes in realism and cartoon from a realism first teaching
Exaggerated yet believable body structures
Selective shading.
A mix of cel shading and soft shading.
Does not misuse highlights or refracted light.
Simplified yet stylized
etc

The fact is, the average eastern artist draws better than the average western artist, and it shows.

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A quick glance around /h/ reveals that about 90% of eastern porn artists are garbage.

There's good artists of every nationality, weebs just don't look for western art.

>>4724838
>Unlike in Japan, where live action TV shows can be made from manga, you won't see Hollywood making a TV show about a comic that isn't capeshit anytime soon.

What is The Walking Dead

the current state of western shit:
h ttp://forums.hentai-foundry.com/viewtopic.php?p=250206

There are easier ways to make money.
2D art is expensive to produce compared to posing a premade 3D model.
3D is also expensive, but is offset by not having to draw each frame.

The creation of an animation or game, regardless of subject matter requires a number of skills. The art itself must be appealing, VA and lip sync (often) requires outsourcing talent and production requires some level of editing experience.
In the West these skills exist, but aren't often combined into porn. The reason being that each of these skills (often) independently results in a stable job and thus the risk of going indie, especially on a porn product is simply a bad idea.

So why does Japan tend to do it?
The skills required to create the end product are likely learned the same way, acquired through independent study or formally through a school. The skills are useless unless they convert to some form of income, and so an opportunity is either found or created. Therefore it's possible that the job opportunities simply don't exist in Japan, but that's a bit of a stretch.
What about the lack of stigma regarding porn? While censored, Japan's view on sex and associated media is quite open and it's not considered particularly unusual to have a pile of magazines stashed somewhere.
Anime and manga are also far more prevalent. From store bought Jump books and general TV broadcasts, there's a wealth of exposure to all kinds of characters and art styles, the designs are often subtly provocative purely out of an attempt to sell merch of some form (statues, keychains, etc.).
Finally, xenophobia. Japan is really proud of rolling their own solutions to solved problems. They'll use their own flavour of P2P software for example, regardless of effectiveness (we'll disregard the content on that heh). While it stifles innovation (like Illusion's slow uptake on Unity), they seem happy enough to put up with it.

Overall there's many factors, not just skill.

>>4726984
Further to this is the idea of piracy.
Japan engages in its fair share of piracy, but DLSite is proof of the existence of a thriving market dedicated to the circulation of hobby products. Having a means to host and share your content, push updates and the like is a huge factor in going indie, it eliminates the busy work of logistics and has a very open policy to what you can create.
It's also home grown, which Japan obviously prioritises.

Games, as opposed to animations require a lot more programming. Voice acting isn't so important depending on presentation, interaction is far more valuable. So long as you're competent at writing basic state machines, you can write a game. Making an interesting or technically impressive title requires great foresight and a high level of programming skill. If you're a great programmer, why would you squander that on porn?
Perhaps there's a line drawn between passion and practicality. Perhaps Japan values the pursuit of passion more than the West, which finds criticism on work unless it strictly conforms to some set of "acceptable values". Many products, although (mostly) harmless, will be met with unyielding protest were it sold through a Western marketplace like Amazon or similar.
DLSite has opened their marketplace to Western customers which is cool, but it relies pretty heavily on existing Japanese products which we'll have a hard time understanding due to the language barrier.
Localisation is a thing, but requires a great deal of investment from the Japanese developer for what isn't yet a worthwhile return on investment (most of the time).
For this reason (amongst others) DLSite for the West is still ripe for exploitation, but sufficiently risky that not many shoot for it.

>>4723396
this is the only answer needed

>>4726728
>Leans towards futa most of the time
Blame the USGay for that. So many CalArts washouts that need to eat, so little variation.

>>4726738
Look at how many years it took that to get made. They were discussing making that into a show for like 10+ years. It's honestly a miracle it ever came to be.

Is futanari really any worse than lesbian porn?

>>4724586
To add to this, western stuff often requires quality in ways that add money without results.
Like, hentai manga being black and white with limited backgrounds takes so much less time. Limited animations similarly. Colouring, detailed backgrounds, etc. take too long.

>>4724704
The amount of artists who I like their art, their works have good erotic energy......

And it's all black cock worship bullshit.

>>4726730
Looks like shit
>>>/aco/

>>4723364
> America sucks at creating sex games
>Sets the trend in creating the most popular non-sex games.

My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic fandom has claimed all the good ones.

>>4726730
>tumblr nose
>tumblr haircut
>good art
Ahahaha, no.

>>4726730

Please tell me you don't actually think that shit you posted looks good

>>4724817
>>4724721
This and >>4726728 - western hentai/porn is terrible on the most basic level - conceptual level. Question is answered.

One thing that really frustrates me is too many artist enforce this "No Loli" policy a lot, it narrow the choice for character design.

>>4726730
>only argument for west's superiority is buzzwords

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>>4727563
A large reason for this is that you can actually get in legal trouble for loli in many parts of North America. I think it's also illegal in Australia.

>>4724243
1: Labor costs a lot in the western world. It costs far less in Korea, although not as little as it used to.
2: They have studios devoted to making animation in their nation and the infrastructure to make it work. We long ago outsourced those jobs and crashed our own animation industries because Koreans can make it better for less money. That said you can hire lots of college grad level animators, but good luck getting them to work together when all the successful ones with a work history have mostly worked alone or in the SFW industries.
3: People who work on adult stuff know it may kill their career. This creates a chilling effect. It is less of a concern amongst the modern generation, but old people and prudes still run things.
4: You can't sell it, nor can anyone buy it. Credit card companies actively block a lot of adult stuff. Unless you own a major porn business you can't force them to accept it, and the mainstream porn industry doesn't care one whit about games.

>>4724500
You need to eat to live. I suggest full timing a normal job and part-timing your NSFW content. That said, however, Patreon is the only viable funding model since publishers don't really exist for porn games. Marketplaces don't exist either - there is no Steam for porn games, mostly due to the need to fight credit card companies for the right to exist and the huge startup costs.

Patreon has flaws but remains one of the few ways for people to promote and make money, and the patreon develop-and-delayed-release system is just the best way to make money with the platform. If we had publishers and porn-steam we'd have a more traditional industry.

>>4728435
lolicon is illegal in all of canada (and australia, and uk). it's fine in the us

>>4723364
>Reused animations and stolen animations in most hentai. Only a few have original animations.
>Women in hentai and most Asian pornos yelp annoyingly instead of moaning in pleasure.
>Women in Asian porn always look like they don't even wan't to be there.
>The plots are always the same. (You're either being gang banged or something about a childhood friend.)
>You think this is good.

The only thing that holds hentai together are the cute drawings and lolis for the pedos.
Plus it's censored. Why the fuck is it censored?

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Being pulled in by bait

OP must be so happy with all the (you)s

>>4729238
low-effort bait
2/10

>>4723364
because there's no animated porn industry in the west
japan has dedicated creaters who's job it is to make porn; 99% of the professional western stuff you see is a self-made, unfunded team

Sense porn is illegal in Korea, are hentai OVAs not outsourced? I know that studios like Madhouse get Korean companies like DR Movie to help them with shows, but how is hentai production handled?

>>4723585
You know how they censored a scene in Hannibal that showed a corpse wide open with the guts coming out just because it showed a butt. They had to cover the butt in blood to be accepted by the censorship.

>>4724611
You never went to Japan.

>>4729921
But he's not wrong.

>>4723585
Yet our porn isn't censored and Japan's is. Just stfu weebs. Japan is perverted but too beta to be full on lewd when needed.

>>4723364
Well... hentai videos are usually clunky as shit, and has too many of the unnecessary exaggerated character traits you find in anime.
So imo, any animated porn (aside for simple gifs) are complete shit.

>>4730428
Funny, because, as far as I know, that censorship was forced by the Americans when Japan surrendered during WW2.

>>4730507
What you know is wrong. The censorship rule is centuries old and has been a law long before any American had anything to say in Japan.

>>4728435
The Canadian Criminal Code, which is cited by this image, is purely federal. How the hell did they reach their conclusion of the law changing based on province?

>>4730428
Who gives a shit about censor bars, really? Bet you're one of these faggot who watches decensored porn

>>4723364
probably also has to do with AMV's being on a diffrent level (and legality) in Japan and surounding countries. If your porn movie industry is shit others will fill the market. And if you have shitloads of cheap/free easy to find in the flesh porn animation becomes unimportant to all but the nice fethishes that have problems getting in the flesh porn

>>4723364
>implying that the west isn't into pr0n
>gehentai->exhentai->filter->western only
tell me how many pages pop up. After that, multiply that by 0.1x
That's how much western erotica there is

>>4733359
and 90% of it is awful

>>4733654
much like 90% of everything

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>>4723364
>many great indie games and animations by small teams

Like what?

>>4733686
スタンブローAg精錬所
ウメマロ
ぱびっしゅ!

>>4733675
The good to terrible ratio is way worse for western hentai. Click on some random doujin and there's a chance it will be alright. Click on random western image set and there's a good chance it will be awful. Enjoy your 20 millionth rainbow haired slut or circumcised kamitora dick bondage image.

>>4733689
At least use romanization or post a picture.

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>>4733696
Sorry, I thought a good bit of 4chan could still read basic kana.
stborough, the guy behind works such as Poison Loop
Umemaro3D, the guy behind such works as Pizza Takeout Obscenity
Pabisshu, the guy behind such works as Blue Jellyfish of Forest

>>4733703
>>4723364
I have to agree with you that eastern 3d art is better than western.

I think the reason for that is that while the west focused on realism the east focused on stylization. That's why western models have much more pronounced noses than eastern art. Another thing this has lead to is that while most eastern artists find a style that looks good and use it on their work most western artist just try to make their 3d models more realistic and instead of changing facial features when it looks bad they just try to make the render have a higher resolution.

Mantis-x is probably the only good western 3d artist I know of.

>>4723396
this

I find it hilarious how none of you Americucks can offer actual reasons why western hentai is better. Hell, I don't even like that shit and I can at least offer one reason for you: Commissions. Japs are much less likely to commission art of your retarded, fucked up fetish for you. Your fellow Americucks will do it if you pay them enough, though.

>>4726774
>"oh, it's just that browser game their art isn't so b-"
>"it's a contest?"
>". . ."
please someone nuke anerica

>>4728452
>"You need to eat to live. I suggest (...)"
yes anon I know and it makes sense. but again, how our man Seismic fared all these years without a game? How lots of doujin stuff are made before being charged? Deliver first, then Profit later. they can make it work, so we can do it here as well...

>>4736815
That's simple. Japanese people actually work. Ameritards just beg for welfare simply just for existing. The Mr. Rogers Effect has convinced them all that they're special and should get paid just for existing. Japanese aren't above getting a day job for when their art just isn't cutting it. Not a porn example, but even Daigo Umehara, who many consider to be one of the best fighting game players of all time, works in a fucking nursing home of all places since video games aren't a real career.

>>4736872
in general Japanese do a better job in general terms, even in the simplest drawings you see a little more passion or something like that. In some Western drawings it is noted that one is trying very hard, some have very little imagination.

I'm not against that artists make money, but I'm not sure if the prizes I've seen are really fair.

>>4736872
>Japanese artist
Heres a 50 page doujin which my circle has released for comiket. Come to my stand and buy it. I've also released a DVD and a ton of drawings for you to look at.
I'm also now on the design team for superecchi hyper princess showing every friday at 5 in the morning.

>Western artist
Heres a 7 page unfinished shitscribble webcomic.
Updates every four months
Support my $5 + patreon to see more shitscribbles.
>Hey guys I've had some medical/computer issues please buy me a new liver for $60K so I can continue to bring you comics.

>>4723396
F P B P
P
B
P

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Is calling someone a weeaboo for stating the obvious and providing evidence the equivalent of posting *tips fedora* with no counter-argument when someone points out an obvious fallacy of a religion?

because japs spend less/no time wanking to their own product

>>4737698
Do you have a source on this?
Also, Shadman claims to never masturbate to his own art and he's still pretty awful.

>>4737721
obviously all generalized statements are true

>>4723364
>uneffortless
how come no one else has pointed this out?

oh right, this board is actually idiotic

OP, what "good games" are there from the japanese? it's all screeching girls, still picture novels from the 90's and shitty mini games to look at horrible pictures.

Hentai hasn't done good games in years, maybe like a 0.1% hit rate.

>>4737639
this

>>4737752
Illusion makes pretty good stuff.

>>4737639
I think the Japanese will start picking up this habit eventually. Patreon fucked up Rebis pretty badly and now he even has a request raffle for his patreons.

>>4737743
Are you autistic or something? Who the fuck cares?

>>4738178
Ditto on that, now that Japan have Enty and Fantia, its matter of time
Japanese would ride same shit coaster as westerners.

In fact there's dozen of J artist already had made cloud-funding exclusive content to their shit, you know how frustrate that is?
Enty/Fantia won't accept foreign credit card meaning they're piracy proof.
Also some how they could get a way it uncensoring their stuff.
I'm pretty sure many Japanese would go crazy with that.

>>4723585
Not to mention if theres gay sex it becomes rated x while straight sex can get pg13. Also western people are triggered by fucking cartoon women cause its "beta"

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I would have agreed with you years ago. Back then, tripe like Shad and Palcomix with paysites and shit were pretty much representative of western porn, and if you expected any good (non-degenerate) porn out of a western artist, prepare to be disappointed. I gotta say though, in 2017, there's a decent amount of good western artists. Ricegnat, Hews, Akairiot, Otto are examples of artists I like nowadays. There's a few """humanized""" MLP artists I like as well. Personally I'd like to believe that this is because this new generation is influenced a whole lot more by the Japanese scene thanks to cultural osmosis like being able to follow your favorite artists on Twitter. I'm not looking forward to the day when everybody catches the Patreon flu, but for now, I like the state of things.

>>4738523
Ricegnat and Hews are both asian though.

Shadman

>>4738581
Ah, yes. Another fine example of a shitty western artist.

>>4738581
As a person that actually likes Shad (current lord of European trolls), I must say that he is pretty much everything wrong with western hentai besides his paymodel and willingness to do loli. Did you miss the part of this thread where people were complaining about degenerate fetishes such as traps, futanari, tumblr haircuts, interracial, et cetera? He's basically all of that plus scat, piercings, and tattoos. That's not even bringing up his obvious lack of art training and generally bad anatomy. Furthermore, he's just insane and spends more time shitposting, streaming video games, and making meme images than actually working on pornography.

>>4738581
DrGraevling
Personalami
Qoppa
Ottomarr

>>4738573
Technically, but what I mean is artists that originate outside of the Japanese Pixiv/Comiket/whatever clique that 95% of hentai comes from who also speak fluent English.

>>4738803
>if we ignore the definition that "western = not asian" we can actually find some good western artists who just happen to be asian

>>4739352
Every non-Japanese artist might as well be the same in terms of influences. An Asian American or Filipino are far closer to whitey then they are to a native Japanese artist, at least for methods of distribution, fanbase, etc.

>>4739402
We are mainly talking about product quality here, not fan bases and distribution methods, even through they are relevant too, they are secondary.
And Asian-made porn/hentai content is still asian, even if author current location is not Japan/some other asian country.

How can people that jack off to anime porn that their parents are undoubtedly ashamed of them for call porn they don't like degenerate?

>>4739545
that sentence should be taken out back and shot, multiple times

>>4739547
English is not my first language, so I'll rephrase that.

I find it funny that so many people are throwing around the word "degenerate" in this thread. These same people enjoy hentai, so they're likely seen as odd or outcasts in the first place.

>>4723585
America is the porn capital of the world by a huge, huge margin.

America=prudes is frequent sentiment that I really don't understand. Sex is everywhere in America from commercials, music, tv, film, novels etc.

>>4739633
And yet you still can't even say "fuck" on tv.

It's just full of hypocrisy.

>>4739633
That's why you can show guts spilling out. That's healthy.

And you can't show an exposed butt. That's unhealthy.

Prudes.

>>4739652
Standards were put in place in older times. And every show doesn't need to go full in on cursing. Tone plays a part. Broadcast TV was never the place for stuff of a certain tone, especially as things got more litigious(suing for every damned thing). No one wants the witch hunt that comic books and movies went through decades back to happen to them.

If you can't gate people into choosing your content somehow rather than it just floating into their home, then you're open to losing money via lawsuit based upon obscenity or some other pettiness.

>>4738178
yeah, but after browsing DLSite a little it appears there's always that guy who does it for the cash, even on japan. like that teaching feeling guy who started selling his "game" in a barebones state. not that I don't like him, he's millions more worth than a western patreon whore developer, but it's an example.
hell, even checking on comiket listings you don't know if some circles really did that doujin because they wanted or it was for the easy cash fad like Fa/gGOts.
the main difference is the amount of japs doing it for the lulz in comparison to western artists

>>4739413
I wouldn't consider asians part of the western more of people like kunaboto or minus8, both risking their liberty to draw some smut on the web. I don't know much about minus8, but kunaboto as patreon, but he doesn't do tiers and asks only $5 as a tip to deliver everything free
I don't see any american artists risking his life for some small cash changes.