Web Design vs. Graphic Design

Getting a job in graphic design is just lol. Dont wanna tell you what you can and cant do, but jobs in just pure graphic design are extremely scarce, pay shit, and just generally not worth it imo.

Web design youve got more options. Generally more boring/tedious, but pay is better and if you know how to make connections with the development people and clients, then you'll pretty much never be out of a job.

Either way you go op you should learn some copywriting skills. These are extremely in demand. If you can convicne people to sell shit with just your written words, then you'll go far. Tbh i think copywriting as a skill is more important than high level design. You can get by by just being decent at web/graphic design but being a good copywriter.

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>>287124

>copywriting skills

Can you expand on this?

I was actually going to go into Computer Science, but I am not all that math literate (even though in college I passed my math classes with A's) and don't know much about coding or programming, even though it interests me. I'm kind of artistically inclined.

So Web Design would be the better option I am guessing?

Any other side classes I should take with that?

Or any other advice, is there anything I can do now to help me prepare and get ahead in class?

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>>287122

Bump

>>287125
Do whatever you want man. No one can tell you what to do. This is for you to figure out and no one else.

In terms of copywriting, it's a useful skill because nowadays companies will use social media posts or articles or whatever as a way to pitch their products. If you can pick up a couple of books on copywriting now, and read then re read them 4 times then youll be doing future you a huge solid. Its up to you if you wanna invest the time and effort

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>>287128

I know it's my decision, but I would like to make the best decision possible, which from what it sounds like is Web Design?

Thank you, I will definitely read some of those copywriting books.

Any suggestions for copywriting, books that you would personally recommend?

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>>287122

Bump, anymore advice or input please?

Learn graphic design and then go self taught with html/css/js/cms

Usually it doesn't work the other way round

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>>287153

That's what the head of the Graphic Design department said at the university.

Anymore advice anyone can give me to "help" me make an educated decision on what the best route would be to go?

>>287175
I'm a freelance web developer, not straight out of college, I do this after working professionally for many years. I work with a lot of digital agencies, creative directors, wed designers etc.

Web design is more needed and has more jobs. There's a load of shit jobs, but there's a lot of them and some good ones too. The industry is only going to get bigger and bigger. The web is everything now.

Saying that, it doesn't matter which one you pick. I've met a lot of web designers lacking in fundamental graphic design skills and I've met graphic designers that struggle to understand the web as a flexible canvas (designing from mobile to desktop, thinking in reusable components etc).

As long as you commit to learning the other one while you're doing your course it doesn't matter which you pick. I'm self taught, I've met creative directors at web agencies with backgrounds in print design, it's easy to adapt if you are genuinely creative.

Don't worry about >>287153, you don't need to learn any programming to be a web designer. Knowing HTML and CSS helps and these are easy to learn, don't do any of the rest unless you actually want to get into development.

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>>287201

Thanks, I am artistically inclined, and I'm not "too" worried about the Graphic Design degree side of the job, since I've read some books from my local library about it.

The Web Development is what I have little to no clue about. But thank you for that amazing input.

Anymore advice?

>>287122
>Which one has more jobs?
Neither.
>Which one is most needed?
Neither.
>Which one makes more than the other?
Usually the digital media ones, like motion design or web design, but both make shit money these days.

I'll tell you why.
About 25 years ago computers started to kick in and become extremely useful. A whole generation and all of the posterior ones grew up with computers and with the promise that design was the job of the future. There would be a huge demand for it and it would be a great option for the future.
Guess what happened? Entire generations all decided to study the same fucking shit. So now we have tons of people who can do the exact same thing you can, but they have families and bills to pay, so while a job is worth 1000 bucks, those people desperate for money and with no other skills available, will do that same job for 200 bucks.
Now the problem is that the 200 bucks is now the price to go to, so when you say "That will cost 1000 bucks" people just go for the one that can do it for 200 instead.
What's worse, today you don't even need a degree to work in the area. All you need are good contacts. Having a degree and even a masters degree on the area won't get you a job that a friend of the family or one of the nephews can also do for the same price.

Sorry for that, OP.
I have also wasted thousands of dollars and over 10 years of my life trying to make this work.

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Do both OP. I specialize in web design and front-end development, but I can also do graphic design and motion graphics.

The more things you can bring to the table, the more they will pay you for your services (or you should charge them).

>>287284
this applies in most places. but if you live in nyc, chicago, or la areas you'll probobly be all right. theres still a demand in those places for web. designers. also i heard austin texas has a thriving scene.

but other than those places, yeah its pretty much dead

>>287284
>>287309

Well that's depressing, shit.

>>287358
I mean, desu most places outside of major metropolitan areas are pretty dead in general. It's why Trump has so much support.

>>287309
>>287360
I live in the biggest city of [spoiler]Brazil[/spoiler] and things are exactly as >>287284 says.

>>287381
Well, shit. No spoiler tags here, huh.
So much for the mistery.

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>>287284
>>287360
>>287381

Well fuck, now I feel like I shouldn't go back to college to finish my Bachelors yet, since I was planning on taking one or the other.

I have my AA atm, but oh boy, that sucks.

Man, I feel so lost now... man I don't wanna have to go back to trucking.

>>287388
You've already started, right?
How much left until you finish it?
It's probably better to end what you've started. Who knows, maybe I'm just an unlucky one, or lazy for what's worth. Maybe it'll work out just nicely for you.
Either way, if after some years you end up the same alley I did, you can always choose something else and begin from scratch again.

>>287389

No, I haven't started yet, planning on starting in Spring of 2017.

>>287389
>>287395

I feel like shit though, really was hoping it was a good field to go into...

>>287416
It wasn't my intention, I'm sure lots of people are successful in that area, but it's really crowded right now and I've seen far too many people giving up and moving to another area. Myself included.
Have you tried looking on the available job offers in the area you live in? That is probably one good way to see how good or bad things are right now where you live. Search online and judge by yourself.
If you really like design, then go for it.
Actually, scrap that.
If you really fucking absolutely love design, go for it.

>>287420

Gee, thanks, now I need to go to my safe-space on the campus and cry like a little baby back bitch. But in all seriousness, I am not too sure. I live in Omaha NE, but I am willing and able to move to wherever the jobs are at.

Sup, graduated in 2013 and have been a working web designer at a small but progressive agency. I live/work in the VA/DC region. I don't feel like being super articulate but I'll throw out some snippets:

– I currently make $70,000 making sites. Expecting an additional $10,000 as of January.

– Knowing to code can be very pointless in web design (depending on what you actually want to do). Understanding code's limitations is what matters - being able to write code doesn't matter unless your goal is to be a front-end developer, which is not really a design-job. I couldn't even code a fucking 1990s chinese restaurant site, but I understand the limitations and capabilities of the development team I work with.

– Download Sketch, everyone's using it and its wonderful for UI design. If you insist on coding as well, check out Avocode and Zeplin. Keep Photoshop for intense image editing, but try to use tools that are better suited for UI design.

–Build a reference folder. Download an app like Ember by Realmac Software and catalog inspiration. On the topic of inspiration: look at good work but also learn to separate smart solutions from complete bullshit. I pride myself on only putting things on dribbble that could've actually been developed - no theoretical or impractical garbage. Learn to look at finished sites or polished case studies to internalize the successes of a site so you can apply their legwork to your own projects.

–Nounproject is great for icons. I haven't made an icon in years.

–Bigger, sexier agencies like HUGE, AKQA, etc. are apparently miserable to work at if you're not a big art-director type. Learn to appreciate working somewhere small that'll give you a voice.

I'll check this thread later. I'd be happy to answer some more specifics about being a recent-grad web designer.

>>287122

why don't you do a research beyond your majors?

my college professors basically hit the road after my BS was complete and not one of them referred me to ANY prospective GD related job. unhelpful pieces of shit that maintain fake creative director positions at *sought after firms" on facebook and never returned.

portfolio or nothing....school in college is a dump of debt.

not kidding look at some general/web forums ya see ppl bitching they got NO bigtime careers xcept calArts. calArts is selective breeding, don't dump 500k and sit at Mc Donald's drive thru to make a living.

>>287473

i shat on myself there about calArts.

research calArts and you will see there is a huge bias who gets an animation hold and who sits and watches the cartoons roll as your peers.

applies to /gd because web/animation is synonymous when it comes to selective "art breeding."


basically when it comes down to it, your experience is better than college/debt. take inspiration from wherever, but don't invest in gd like most shitters like us did.

we sit in debt, or got out of it 10 yrs later depending on where you want your BS.

best of luck though.

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>>287465

Thank you for the amazing experience advice.

So should I take any other extra classes while I am taking my Web Design degree classes?

And it sounds like it's perhaps better to work for a smaller company starting off than a large one?

I have questions, but atm, I am not sure really, most of them are vague, as I really know nothing about Web Design.

But once again thank you for the awesome input.

>>287473

>why don't you do a research beyond your majors?

I don't understand?

>calArts

I wanted to go there, but I don't have 200k to spent.

I can live with 30k worth of debt rather than 200k, since if it doesn't work out, I can just go back to trucking I guess, which I hated but paid very well.

>>287474

I heard calArts was a bit of a cluster-fuck sometimes, I originally wanted to go there for animation, but I didn't have the resources and I knew early on animation was shit to go into.

Not too sure what I am reading, not to be an ass, but thank you for the advice.

Everyone is this thread is an incorrect faggot.
Go into UX. Industry is booming. Web design is shite pay, unless you are a scheming asshole or have a magnificent customer base. Graphic design is shite pay.

I started as an entry level UX Designer at 45K (Boston) immediately after I graduated with a BFA in Graphic Design and less than three years later I make 100K with great benefits.

Not trying to claim my dick is big, just trying to urge you to get into the industry, it is absolutely incredible. Little bit less artsy creative freedom, yes, but all the joys of visual and information puzzle solving that design brings.

>>287495
I'm glad things turned out allright for you.
The only incorrect faggot here is you for thinking things work the same everywhere.
>industry is absolutely incredible
Keep repeating that. Whatever makes you sleep at night.

>>287495
Also, UX design is a buzzword.
You either know how to do your work properly or you don't. That makes you a good or bad designer.

>>287495

I thought UX/UI was taught whilst in Web Design?

Is there an actual degree that I can get in that field?

>>287501

It's sometimes called Digital Interaction Design.

Honestly, the number of digital designers I know who studied graphic design but now work on UI/UX is vast. You are either a good designer or a bad one. The critical thinking is the same across the board.

>>287495
UX is fucking laaaaaame

>>287503

If I went into web design do you think I could get work in UX/UI design, or that the material can be used to UX/UI design? Not sure if my college offers it at UNO (University of Omaha NE).

>>287623
If you're doing web design (and I mean doing it properly, not just butchering some shitty Wordpress templates) then yes, a lot of those skills carry over.

Can't speak to your school specifically, but in my web design courses we at least touched on stuff like Information Architecture (although there were separate Interaction Design classes that went into a lot more depth)

TLDR: There's also programs called "digital media technology" or "multimedia technologies." Not sure if that's what you're looking for...

>>287628
>>287638

I'm not sure if my college offers digital media technology.

Tried calling up some departments, but they were all fucking idiots whom didn't know shit from shat. I think my community college might offer it though.

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>>287498
>UX is a buzzword

Where have u been in the past 3-5 years?

>>287768
I think he was trying to say that UX design at its core is a meme, not that UX doesn't exist. Because if we're honest about it and we don't inflate the designer's role in a project, UX is a synonym for common sense that every designer should have, regardless of his/her background. As it is right now, their salaries are largely unjustified, compared to the level of work. It's a bubble waiting to burst.

>>287795

So it's probably not worth going into Web Design?

>>287795
Nah. I know people that do UX for a living and they provide a lot of value and they get paid well for a reason. Proper UX people conduct user testing themselves, with real people from target demographics. They do real testing instead of reading articles online, that's where the real money is, in handling the real testing as part of the UX process. The designer should use the result of the testing to make something pretty that is also proven to be functional.

Every designer should understand UX but it has it's place in big projects as it's own thing.

>>287820

Are there any online resources one could use to learn UX/UI design?

>>287879
How to be a UX designer:
1. Create a Google form questionnaire.
2. Tell everyone that you conduct a study.
3. Display the statistics in PowerPoint.
4. $100k profit.
Truly, a highly skilled profession.

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>>287888

I just want to get a degree that I can actually use and get a job is all...

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>>287888
As a UX designer myself this has been the best trolling this year so far or the most stupid comment I have encountered nowdays.

Anyways if you think UX is about what you have said then Its also okay to say that design is about making things pretty. Am I right?

Please just lurk or read more

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>>287898
Wow, that's some wireframed information architecture you've got there; and generic UI buttons in the lower left corner. Damn.
Please tell me how hard was it for you to come to the conclusion that the best color for the interface is yet another shade of probably blue. This high-contrast button from above the fold is optimized for conversion and it will improve our ROI, guys. That's what this book says, so I must implement it the same way in our _agile_ management environment and test it for a week with some random guys and cater to them--instead of setting up the standards ourselves. because God forbid we stray away from the norm. How else are we going to compete with that other hip startup from the other side of the office building if we're not hitting those milestones, team? The results of the five days sprint, believe it or not, are inconclusive and promising at the same time. Or tell me how you need to reinvent the wheel and think of a smart way of presenting to your clueless clients the natural, logical, evident and obvious flow of your landing page with as many redundancies as possible. And how you need to emphasize the use of a burger icon on your desktop, even though you only have four links inside of it. Don't mind me, I don't know what *buzzwords alert* empathetic, human-centered design is (when will we design interfaces for our pets?).

This is why designers are never taken seriously by engineers. I can't wait for AI design to take over and refresh this stuck-up industry made of people who move boxes around and then tell me how important their job is. UX is only *common sense* that every front-end designer should have. Or call it a good eye for design, but please stop exaggerating how hard UX is. It should have never been separated from UI in the first place.

>>287917
got 'em

>>287898
>>287917

d e s t r o y e d

>>287898
What, wireframing? Shit i do that already just when designing websites. I should charge 50k more and call myself a UX designer

>>287977
In his defense, it's for a mobile app. Besides, wireframing for the web is only useful for complex corporate websites with many (sub-)pages. But nowadays the trend is for one-pager websites so it renders it useless. Everyone who has spent at least five years on the Internet is familiar with it and it doesn't require further explanation.

>>287465
How would you get "guud" at /gd starting from today; beginner to sure bet hire?

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>in uni for graphic design
>do pretty decently, think I might have a shot at this
>teachers recommend I get into illustration since they think I'm good (I'm not, I just don't put out atrocious, rushed shit like some of the other students)
>fill me with hope anyway, made me think I may have a chance
>thought I'd try out this illustration thing, with gd to fall back on
>mfw seeing this thread

so what's my best option here lads? gun licenses are nigh impossible to get in my country. I think my best bet is a helium tank, but I don't know where to get the breathing thing. do I really need it?

>>288402
Why limit yourself to one single thing?
Have skilled in multiple fields so you can adapt and prove yourself more useful than someone who only an photoshop, etc.

>>288402
Don't be so unentrepreneurial. If you get really good at illustration there are infinite ways to make money on your own terms.

>>288405
that's pretty much my plan, just have as many things to put on my resume as I can

>>288410
p-pls elaborate

>>288420
But one of a bunch of ideas in my head:

Start an Instagram page
Examine the illustration scene there as it is now (What's popular)
Learn all the hashtags that scene uses (Photography love #vscocam and #natural)
Upload illustrations frequently and consistently (at least daily) mixing in popular styles with your own.
Tag each image with 100 hashtags
Put your website in the bio
The following builds if you've followed previous steps
Now monetise through prints or commissions (add links to buy in the description of your images)

>>287917
You have no idea what you're talking about.
Ui != Ux design
You're literally trying to pass off ui styling as ux.
Just because a pamphlet website like the one in your analogy has little to no need for user experience research and design doesn't mean that there isn't need for it in the wider industry.

In terms of design, most projects which attempt to actually do something useful are 90% ux. For example, try design a web application for travel coordinators to book multi-traveller, multi-leg flights, with hotels and transfers... then tell me that ux is just a meme.

Come back when you've worked on a system that's more than just a few pretty pictures and text.

>>287497
>>287498
>>287523
>>287795
>>287888
>>287917
>>287977

Braindead pixel pushing MacOps detected.
Have fun living in your flyover states, working your sub 70k salaries at your insignificant design agencies recolouring wordpress templates.
No wonder "designers" aren't taken seriously nowadays. UX is the most important aspect of your job. Just because you make something look good doesn't mean it's ideal or useable.
Big projects require dedicated user experience research and testing.

>>288894
lol this butthurt irrelevant scrub

>>288895
You're late for your next lecture

>>288852
Those big projects you're talking about are not made by UXers alone. It's ridiculous to believe that. They work in close teams with developers. They are being given a list of features by the client, which have to be implemented (i.e. stolen from the competitor's website). It's not like UX designers are experts in every single domain on the face of the Earth and they come up with all the ideas of what needs to be done, from booking hotels or flights to specialized transportation apps and other specific niche markets. In fact, engineers have the upper hand in this situation, because they constantly have to remind the designers what is possible or not on a certain device. They simply translate the requirements into a visually logical form. In many cases they only re-design, re-structure, re-polish, bring it up to date and add a couple of new features to an already existing structure. They don't reinvent the wheel. And in the few cases where they take themselves too seriously, they create a low-rated app like Virgin America's. Someone who's tech savvy enough and lives off technology & design should be able to design any web/mobile application that automatically implements good UX standards. It's far from rocket science. Especially nowadays when you have so many examples and inspiration is at every corner of the internet.
>>288894
Have fun living in your dirty stinky metropole, burning half of your over $70k salaries on a shoe-box pad with no garden. Big projects like you are referring to happen only at Fortune 500 corporations, not at a design boutique.

>>288937
I never said the process of UX involved giving a designer a problem and locking him in a room by himself. You're absolutely right user experience design involves the expertise of just about every single facet of a company especially the engineers and the client and the target user. This is where design sprints and agile methodology come in
>>287917
Everything that this dense cunt was just shitting on.
A UX designer may not be an expert in every industry or system alone but they should be (and get paid to be) an expert in making these existing or proposed systems/solutions as simple and useable as possible. This is output in the form of low fidelity wireframing, higher fidelity mock-ups and then (UI design enters) a finished blue print for developers.
During these early stages the UX designer will gain feedback from the design sprint team directly and will also test against the user, the proposed solution(s) from the sprint in the form of a prototype.
Basically they're getting paid because of their knowledge and expertise in reducing complexity within web applications. You'd be surprised at how many people are still daunted by the internet or have no clue what makes for a "nice and easy" experience online. Even web devs and engineers generally have shit tier ideas. They always end up proposing something that looks and works like it came out of the fuckin early 2000s or something that only accommodates superusers who have 10+ years experience in bash scripting.
Gen Yers often make great UX designers because a good amount of us are basement dwelling fucks who spend all of our time on the internet. If you combine this with a well rounded knowledge of design and in my personal opinion a well rounded knowledge of web development/programming you've got the recipe for a young person to out perform and out earn the dinosaurs that have moved to digital design from their previous 20-30 years in print and advertising.

>>288937
And your comment about fortune 500 companies is retarded. Plenty of smaller agencies are taking on complex projects which require dedicated user experience.
You're probably a student with no industry experience or like
>>288894
said, doing nothing interesting. If it's the latter and I were you I'd start looking for another agency.

>>287122
I'm a DMM for a mid-size tech company, and web design is part of my job.

Employers, at least in my area, tend to look for generalists. For example, I am a proficient web designer, but knowing marketing automation/advertising/SEO/email etc is just as important, and you need to know all of them to find work. It seems like web design purists either work for agencies or are contractors, and aren't paid well.

Graphic design is along the same vein, except work is even more scarce if you can't bring more to the table than just that. You will always be competing with candidates who have a more diverse skillset.

>>289016

Would a MIS degree be enough to get a web design position?

Check the designs here if you want : http://www.oddthemes.com

>>287122
Web design IS graphic design. And I don't mean like by some stretch or elaboration. Web design is DIRECTLY graphic design. Unless you mean coding, which is not design.

>>287122
>Which one has more jobs?
>Which one is most needed?
>Which one makes more than the other?

I don't understand how any of you go into design with these questions. You do realize it's not a rewarding job, and you could be learning coding or nuclear engineering instead ? If you don't have passion for graphic design, don't fucking study it

>the UX/UI meme going on in this thread

I mean yeah sure, technically it's lucrative since it's a niche/specialized field that a lot of companies that want to either release new digital products or redesign old digital products have to hire outside agencies for, but holy shit is it the most monotonous and boring process.

The grand bulk of UX/UI is testing. It's designing testing, setting up testing and extrapolating meaning from testing. Most the time you're not actually designing anything, at best you're back-seat designing by feeding suggestions or possible improvements to an already established dev/design team. And that's only after getting direct confirmation of how users test on the original design.

If you're doing the actual design work you're just a UI designer. You have no actual part in UX and it's a lot less tedious and a lot more interesting.

Anyway, I've been through school for "Web and Multimedia Design," which compared to the Graphic Design courses at the same school, was really just Graphic Design-lite with a much heavier focus on digital media and making 100% sure you knew how to code HTML/CSS and use javascript plugins. Still had to learn a lot of Graphic Design practices/principles to get by.

Job availability depends entirely on the area you live in and while it's true that there's a lot of habib-tier undercutters in the field, the inverse is also true in that there is also a huge market for mid-high price range clients, that specifically go into that mid-high price range for the assumed quality that it comes with.
And let's be real, the clients that are being "stolen" by cheap indians are the ones that would've tried scamming you or forcing you to fight tooth and nail to get a payment from.

>>290261
Ux involves just as much design as it does testing.
The only meme going on here is the idea that ux is a self contained role. You can't really decouple ux/ui.
To design an effective user experience you need to have a well rounded understanding of user interface and interaction design amongst other things (the system, the user, the data and preferably development and it's limitations) ..
A good (ux?)designer will be multi-disciplinary but it's close to impossible to be an expert across all fields hence the need for collaborative and agile approaches.
In these collaborative approach the 'ux designer' will collate and leverage the contributors expertise and translate the input into a working system/prototype (low fidelity ui design) which they then test and iterate upon.

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can someone rape my portfolio website with critiques? t-thanks (i'm not really a designer, I just enjoy doing html/css and backend work)

darkhorsedesigns.org

t-thanks

>>290318
I'm really questioning your claim on your website that you're an "expert" on all those things. I don't even know where to begin; at least don't use Times New Roman on your sidebar.

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>>290261
>technically it's lucrative since it's a niche/specialized field

Lol, man.

>>290330
That's not TNR

>expert on all those things
Only HTML/CSS, which are jokes