Programmers are way overpaid

>>62398061
Really weird OP.

How are you feeling today? Do you want /g/ to write a paper for you?

>>62398307
>How are you feeling today? Do you want /g/ to write a paper for you?
I write my own papers tyvm

Programmers are the tradesmen of the 21st century. Their salary is comparable with real earnings of electricians, welders etc. in the 1980s; the only reason it seems high is that our money is devalued and worthless compared to then.

Programmers give corporations 10 figure revenue.

6 is hardly enough

>>62398061
Yeah that's why we have millions of immigrants piling into the countries that need programmers. Entitled first world devs aren't worth their pay. Wages need to go down.

Unfortunately some racists are opposed to this market correction, but thankfully they are a dying breed :^)

>>62398061
If the problems programmers solve are so trivia then why aren't you a programmer making 7 figures at some big tech company?

You said it yourself. Programming is easy. Why complain about how much they're paid when you can cash in?

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>>62400319
Sanjay? I was wondering when you'd show up to /g/, my friend. My poo has been too solid recently to clean with my fingers, so please sir if you could let us go to a nice restaurant to soften our stools together.

Captcha: Pant Cemetery

>>62398061
you do realise most of the people saying "6 figures" are talking shit,
you need to be really good at your job (have a lot of experience) and know a lot to actually make that much, in which case you well deserve it

>>62398061
It's called supply and demand. For some reason, companies can't seem to hire enough people who can actually solve those shitty leetcode problems, because most people are just that dumb I guess. Remember that thing with the webdevs who complained about fucking fizzbuzz being prohibitively difficult for an interview? Don't overestimate the amount of unemployed programmers with an IQ over 125

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>OP

>>62403387
that's a web designer applying for something without reading requirements and then complaining fizzbuzz is too difficult

>>62400319
Immigration will have to be based on merit, not letting the SJWs import their commie friends to sabotage the country
>>62401851
Don't you think I have tried? The level of hypocrisy I have encountered really shocked me
>>62403045
I've seen people who are shit making 200k+ just because they cocksucked their way in
>>62403387
You really think people are really this stupid?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Xpb7F7bAsM

>>62398061
I'm getting paid $60 an hour for beeing a better but much slower version of translate.google.com ... that doesn't trigger anyone?

>>62398061
OP is autist and failure,not autistic enought to be decent programmer tho,gets rejected for being retard,make /g post

"hurr durr it is easy to be police officir I just could not do ett becaus can not run n look at ded ppl"

>>62398061
most programmers in europe don't earn 6 figures, it's usually below the 100k/y mark. that being said, if you are a decent programmer your earn it by being smart and using your brain to fix abstract problems that society created due to maintaining their comfort. not all people can do that, while following a manual how to bake donuts at dunkin donuts doesn't require much skill but very basic understanding of norms and skills.

stating what you did just shows that you aren't able to comprehend how the world works, that some people are simply better at certain things while others are not and therefor get an adequate compensation

>>62398061
You get paid depending how much money your work makes. If you were to be paid 200k/day just for jerking off sometimes, it means your cum is that valuable, regardless how easy it was to produce it.
If you think people should be paid by merit, you got a collapsed economy and nation.

How much money the world's biggest companies would make without programmers:
Google: $0
Facebook: $0
Microsoft: $0

How much they make with programmers:
Google: $LiterallyUngraspableAmounts
Facebook: $MoreThanTheNetWorthOfSouthAfrica
Microsoft: $UnfathomableAmountsOfCash

Did that clear it up?

>>62398061
>Why
Supply and demand.

Add to this that they tried upping the supply by outsourcing and "educating" people who had difficulties showing a pulse. Pay peanuts - get monkeys. And the bug legacy is hideous and will be with us for decades.

After a while the value of good programmers became apparent but not yet for all.

>>62405759
I'm willing to bet I could do more than 100 of you put together you retarded fuck
>>62408900
>Google
Are you sure it isn't some extortionate scam?

>>62407111
If I were some nigger who could rob people at gunpoint should I be making lots of dough because that's how much my "work makes"? By your logic yes

>>62407075
Are you sure the SJW hivemind isn't out there preventing truly skilled people from getting jobs so they won't have any competition to deal with?

>>62410950
>I'm willing to bet I could do more than 100 of you put together you retarded fuck
ya said it your self. why dont ya be a billionare now my man?

>>62411032
What by my logic?
Your "work"(thieving) directly generates that much wealth. Is it fair? No. Does it worth that much? Yes.

>>62411159
Because niggers.
>>62411161
...aaaannnndd you're done

>>62411314
?

>>62411314
Oh i see, you're a little bitch, that explains it

>>62411469
*your

>>62411161
Thieving is worth less than nothing, because it will get you shot. Understand?

>>62411469
When the day of the rope comes, I will be sure to string faggots and niggers like yourself up extra hard. because of how much of a bitch I am

>>62411987
I see, so you take math problems personally and literally. It's okay dude, not everyone can possess average intelligence

>>62412086
I assure you I do not take the math problem that is your life with any sense of gravity.

>>62411161
Stealing doesn't generate any wealth. Nothing is made.

>programmers are overpaid
All programmers are cute girls.
Don't you want to break the glass ceiling for traps anon?

>>62412289
The ground is the ceiling when it comes to traps.

>>62403609
It is not for you to decide who is to enter the country. Immigrants are welcome. Most of your countries are immigrants already.

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>>62412240
>you have no gold
>there's gold on the table in front of you
>take gold
>now you have gold
it's this simple
you're a faggot for implying that i implied that stealing was generating wealth for the economy and not for yourself
>>62412149
don't cut yourself on that edge

>as opposed to being responsible for the next great credit score hack
The CISO in charge of this had a BA and MFA in Musical Composition from the University of Georgia. She was not a programmer, nor qualified to manage programmers. If you hire programmers who are well-trained, you are less likely to have these sorts of data breaches. Of course, the kind of training that it takes to make a secure program is much more time consuming and costly than the training it takes to make a "coollata", which could probably be done by a robot, hence we are paid more.

>>62400319

The price of labor needs to go up across all industries. Immigration isn't helping.

>>62412751
If it's just for yourself the work is worthless. You have more money but the value of your "labor" is N/A because you're not paying yourself, that doesn't even make sense and this thieving analogy is invalid. In this stupid thread we're talking about the value of a programmer's work to employers.

>>62412751
You left out the part where you get shot for being a nigger
>>62413178
You know come to think of it I get the feeling they caused the hack on purpose. They are domestic terrorists.

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>>62398381

No you don't. The second sentence in the OP is a trainwreck, no one who writes papers would construct it that way.

Vast majority are absolutely overpaid largely because they operate through 'black box' tactics. Keeping things hard to maintain (or realistically just hard for others to maintain), and documentation sketchy at best, you secure your position in the workplace and have better negotiating power. This used to be the norm, that's changing largely due to demographic shifts and more corporations wanting a fluid workforce.
SV also presents a strange force due to all the capitalists shoving exhausting amount of money into companies that produce absolutely nothing or a product like that jews squeezer.

Overall, nothing is going to happen, there will still be plenty of fields that are paid unfairly.

>>62413178
>The CISO in charge of this had a BA and MFA in Musical Composition from the University of Georgia.
are you talking about the bitch from the equifax hacks who was in charge? If so how the fuck did she get up there without any programming experience.

>>62403609
>You really think people are really this stupid?
Yeah, they are, actually.

Do you think companies would pay their developers 6 figures if they could get away with paying less? They do that because there is high demand for devs who are good at what they do.

Believe it or not, but your average Starbucks barista would not be able to solve hard level problems on leetcode. If you think otherwise, then you're probably suffering from the Dunning Kruger effect: you assume it's easy to others because it's easy to you.

If you can't find a well-paying job as a programmer, though, then you probably aren't as good at it as you think you are

>>62411823
He was right you retarded fuck. He meant it as you are, as in: "You're a dumbass"

>>62413240
>The price of labor needs to go up across all industries.
t. fat overpaid white man

>>62407111
honestly if your semen was this valuable, some dishonest semen poachers would just enslave you and milk you 5 times a day for no pay

>>62413321
You don't seem to understand that you not liking what a sentence says doesn't make it ill-constructed in any way.
>>62413368
SJWism
>>62413557
>Do you think companies would pay their developers 6 figures if they could get away with paying less?
What are they going to do? Throw a hissy fit and strike?

>Believe it or not, but your average Starbucks barista would not be able to solve hard level problems on leetcode. If you think otherwise, then you're probably suffering from the Dunning Kruger effect: you assume it's easy to others because it's easy to you.
No, it's because I have a good understanding of the theory of computation. Any program is just a web of "if a then b"s, however complex in nature. Even a barista at Starbucks has to understand this, however your average liberal art major is still going to have a better understanding of the concept of "form fits function" than the pajeet who hard codes all the corner cases. Or the designers of horrible programming languages like Java
>If you can't find a well-paying job as a programmer, though, then you probably aren't as good at it as you think you are
See: >>62412577

>>62407075
so far i haven't seen much sjw garbage. people who are shit are usually fired within the probation time unless they whore themselves out

>>62403609
>Immigration will have to be based on merit, not letting the SJWs import their commie friends to sabotage the country
Oh... you're one of *those*

>You really think people are really this stupid?
No, but you, clearly, are.

>>62413938
>You don't seem to understand that you not liking what a sentence says doesn't make it ill-constructed in any way.
It is ill-constructed, though.

>>62413938
>SJWism
thats a non answer. did she get that job straight out of college or what?

>>62414104
He is the kind of person who actually believes that corporate project management skill and the trust of a board/other executive colleagues is related to technical expertise.

He really believes that "merit" gets people to their positions.

>>62398061
>tfw i'm on 6 figures and spent most of my workday """""coding""""" in VBA
feels good

>>62413938
No, you moron, Starbucks baristas typically don't understand computational theory. Lots of people aren't even capable of learning to program. I've seen people in the CS department fail intro programming courses several times in a row. Programming is not inherently any easier than doing regular math for regular engineering, a field where people are paid similarly. Good programmers and mathematicians tend to be smarter than the average person.

It's clear from reading your posts that you are a delusional autist who vastly overestimates his capabilities, and no doubt this is obvious when you try to get a job. If someone makes the claim to be 1000x more productive than the average programmer, they better have built some damn impressive software on their own. What have you built? Where is your evidence that you are such a programming god? Nobody wants to work with someone who's full of themselves. Hell, who's as productive as a thousand man team should be able to build million-dollar software by themselves. Why don't you just do that instead of whining about how others are overpaid?

>>62414143
what the fuck are you talking about i just want to know the path she took after graduating college and from your first post you seemed to know her history.

manchildren are underpaid.

>>62414143
Moving the goalposts. We're talking about fresh grads who get recruited to work as junior devs as Amazon, not people who weasel their way into high positions at credit rating companies through nepotism. These are two entirely different scenarios.

I am sure there are a lot of people here who have white trash families and have to listen to this shit everyday of dealing with people stuck in dead end, no brain jobs who got diploma mill degrees and they lecture you because you just want to do programming and they cant understand why you dont get a 'real job'. I cant wait till Im making bank in my 'fake job' and I have to face this ignorant fucks at christmas and listen to them give me their passive aggressive guilt trip lectures about how I dont deserve the money I'm making.

>>62398061
My company makes a difference between programmers and developers.

A programmer solves a programming exercises. They do exactly what we say without thinking about the problem itself.

But a developer helps the business analyst with a technical solutions for customer requirements and cost estimation for the required features, does third-level support, executes code reviews, writes unit and integration tests, supports in release planning and project controlling, prepares deployments, evaluates third-party tools, performs presentations and courses, creates UML diagrams, writes technical documentation, implements core features (like frameworks and central components) aaaand delegates programming excercises to programmers. That's why I earn as much than eight Pakistani programmers.

>>62398061
Consider what's at stake in the enterprise? it worth paying someone a considerable amount of money that will keep the place from burning down.

>>62398061

As a programmer I partly agree with OP. However there are many types of developer out there.

The guys who works building the trading algorithms in banks are worth their money, as can been demonstrated by the revenues they bring into the bank.

A web developer in India who is hacking together some JS for a small eCommerce company is doing work that most people can do.

Software development is the future but on its own is not enough, you need the skills that go with it such as being able to implement models easily and applying your knowledge of other areas to your code.

>>62398061
>These problems are in actuality trivial to solve
For you.
Ask the average secretary how to fizzbuzz and they'll quit on the spot. Ask the average manager and the manager will stick a foot up your ass.

>>62403546
LOL OMG

GOYIM NO

THIS IMAGE IS HILARIOUSLY ANTISEMITIC

t. Ashkenazi Jew

>>62403045
It depends where you live. In DC 6 figures is standard for 5yrs of experience.

>>62398061
Fuck off. You're just angry because your Gender Studies major isn't making any money for you.

Programmers, Engineers, Scientists and Mathematicians will always be the best. People with other degrees can go fuck themselves.

>>62398061
You're absolutely correct OP but I'm going to enjoy my 6 figure salary until I move up into management/architecture and get paid even more to do even less

>>62414186

Working in VBA feels good? I feel sorry for you.

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The reason is because central banks are buying into the whole "diruptive tech" meme. They keep pouring money into these meme companies that have 0 hope of ever seeing any profit. This party won't even last 5 years. Soon all of these 6 figure programmers are going to be competing with poos for scraps of bread.

>>62417520
*disruptive tech

>>62398061
I'm scared of job interviews. I have a shit GPA and no internships (but a solo portfolio kind of). Luckily I live in an area with high demand. I'm gonna get ripped apart in interviews though.

Please don't make this an issue. I seriously don't want the general public to find out how little work we programmers do.

I do feel sorry for the poor guys doing labour though. They sacrifice their blood and sweat in their menial job but don't even make half as much as I do.

>>62417566
It's not a career type job though. Enjoy it until the bubble pops.

Keep in mind, most programmers work in CA.

6 figures is middle income in that state since the cost of living is so high.

A 1 bedroom apartment in a shitty area is 2,000 a month for rent.

>>62417641

Must be a nice apartment then. I live by myself for $1700/mo in a nice area in Mountain View. When I was looking for places, it was mostly $1100-1800 depending if it was a room vs an apartment. Could've went cheaper for apartments if I went further away.

San Jose would've been even cheaper too.

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>>62417466
Yeah there are a lot of us with those degrees who just happen to be born outside of America and will work for far less than your inflated salary. That's the point.

>>62414216
>where people are paid similarly.
;_; i wish

>>62418111
Why the hell is it so unpopular for smart people to stay and be fucking smart where they are?

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>>62419537
>third world sucks
>smart enough to emigrate
how's this hard to comprehend?

>>62419537
well when your country sucks and your government is unreasonably corrupt and there's literally no room for advancement or social mobility, jumping the border to the next country over doesn't seem like such a bad idea now does it?

>>62419708
Then why do they advocate for corruption and shittiness upon arrival?

>>62419726
Name a single group of people that does this other than muslim people.

>>62398061
you underestimate how retarded the average person is. 98% of the human population is intellectually incapable of understanding programming in even its most simple form.

>>62419726
Source? And don't claim muh islam, they've already been proven to be phonies trying to gain access to land value globally.

>>62419739
>>62419749
What fucking whitopia do you cocksuckers live in? Literally every immigrant group here in LA advocates for their own people to get into politics and push their language, their culture, and everything they want on the population at large. Our politics are fucking equivalent to any given mestizo socialist regime in south america for a reason.

>>62419888
To be fair LA is like 50% mexican, so it wouldn't be at all out of place if we made the official language spanish.

>>62419946
Yeah fine, give the state to Mexico for all I care. I just want the meme to die that muh immigrants just assimilate and none of them ever advocate for turning their new home into the one they left. It's just such obvious bullshit spouted by racist neoliberals who don't consider non-whites to be human. They just think they're dogs to feed and pet and enjoy who couldn't possibly re-arrange their furniture.

>>62419990
What are you angry about?
mexicans aren't taking over the country when they mostly live in all the states that used to belong to mexico anyway

>>62398061
Bait designed to enrage the 6 figure programmer or aspiring six figure programmer crowd on /g/

Well done OP

I wished I get 6 figures

go fuck yourself OP

>>62420010
Just pointing out you're probably a racist for your views brah, don't be offended. It's your white privilege. Nothing you can do about it.

>>62420169
i'm not white

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>>62420194
Neither am I.

>>62398061
What are you going to do about it?

>>62420194
im not white either tee hee

>>62420194
nobody on 4chan is white

>>62398061
tell the population to get off their ass and write code, then nobody will pay programmers near as much.

>>62420498
hey don't even want to hire more ppl tho

>>62398061
Reminder that programming sucks.

Nearly all of the programmers I've met are complete insufferable retards who have absolutely no capacity for logic or reasoning yet think that they're super fucking special for writing some super simplistic and literal instructions thousands of times in a row. You're not smart just because you have the patience to enter in line after line of source code, which shouldn't be hard, but retards somehow figure out how to make it that way.

That's not to say that they can write something that's effective or just fucking compiles. 90% of these people take more than a day to start development because they're too fucking stupid to configure their build environment properly and are incapable of doing anything without being spoonfed by a guide.

As for the remaining 10%, nearly all of them were transient. What I mean by that is that they had a professional background somewhere else and had temporarily involved themselves in programming in order to solve a very specific goal. Unlike the programmers, they tended to be competent, practical, and focused on delivering a working product more than anything else. They also wrote stuff that was logically-structured and didn't hide everything behind autistic abstractions and interfaces that will never be reused anyway.

All the retards unfailingly structured everything they wrote around counterproductive interfaces and structures that didn't really need to be there and weren't organized in any sort of logical way whatsoever. This is because they, unlike the former group, were unable to mentally visualize the completed product and plan ahead before they started. This means that they ended up introducing abstractions halfway through because they didn't realize something until then, which invariably resulted in horrible spaghetti shitcode that didn't even work, but they would refuse to rewrite it because they couldn't realize how stupid it was.

>>62420514
80/20 principle applies to any field my dude

>>62420525
But it's so much worse when it comes to programmers that I just can't help but complain about it

>>62400230
This.

>>62413881
t. wannabe ceo who thinks he'll get a bonus for importing millions of pajeets and cutting salaries

>>62420630
That's how capitalism works.

>>62420661
fuck off racist, capitalism is oppression, immigration is reparation

>>62420514

This guy again, there's one final statement I would like to make

The best programmer I've ever worked with didn't have any sort of background in the subject. He was a mechanical engineer who started editing the code because control systems were malfunctioning. He was just editing constants at first, but over the next few weeks, he actually managed to pick up on what everything did. I'm still amazed that he did this, but he actually ended up fixing a bunch of issues and moving the system towards completion faster than any of the programmers ever had.

I guess the point I'm trying to make here isn't that there are a few good programmers and lots of bad ones, but that programming itself tends to attract a generally unintelligent group of people who have no real problem-solving skills and absolutely can't understand anything related to mathematics.

I can't wait until we can just have computers write software for us and be done with it all.

>>62417520
>>62417633
90% of programmers work outside of SV and unprofitable meme technology only makes up a small part of the tech industry.

You're right, there is a startup bubble in some cities, but the idea that it will shatter an entire industry and programmers will become poor after it pops just isn't true. There's so much tech and so many software companies that actually generate a profit, that developers will continue to be in demand for a long time. Companies in general are becoming more reliant on technology as time goes on. The field of software development doesn't hinge solely on trendy Silicon Valley startups, the vast majority of devs work at real companies with real products that actually make money

>>62420701
This is why CS isn't just a meme. Just because you can "code" doesn't mean that you have any knowledge of software engineering or an ability to solve problems. Any good computer science program is maybe 10% programming with the rest being math, formal logic, and other fundamental theory. I would never trust anyone who only did programming without ever touching on the latter subjects. This is why a mechanical engineer would probably perform better than any uneducated code monkey: they have a theoretical and math background that others lack, and their job requires them to solve problems anyway. They're used to thinking like an engineer.

>programming itself tends to attract a generally unintelligent group of people who have no real problem-solving skills and absolutely can't understand anything related to mathematics.

This might be true, but there's also just the possibility that you worked for companies that were bad at filtering out morons from people who are actually competent. It's not really anything to base such sweeping generalizations on, in any case.

>>62420384
back to /facebook/ sweetie

>>62398061
You're welcome to do it for cheaper and try to undercut me.