PHP the final redpill

>>62375854
I never minded working with PHP all that much.

The only thing is I never set up a debugger for it. It was hard to debug you had to do printf debugging,

If you have the choice I would use a different serverside language. There are better options now.

Remote debugging is a pain in the ass.
Lack of unified style tends to make legacy work a pain in the ass
It has a lot of online resources
It may not be the fastest but it's reliable

>>62375854
It's shit
You're shit for asking
Take you x_pill shit to back to >>>/pol/
I hope you step on a mega dogshit while wear flip flops
Have a fucking nice day

It's actually pretty nice, especially if you have a lodern version.

Hating php is a meme perpetuated by pajeets and women who can only understand ruby

>>62376555
>Hating php is a meme perpetuated by pajeets and women who can only understand ruby
>He's oblivious of PHP's sins
>He probably also codes in JS, thinking is a winning combo
Are you 15??

>>62376467
No, tell us how you really feel.
Php 7 is pretty comfy and fast

>>62376583
Did they finally get rid of errors like

if (1 == "1.0") 
   return true;

and/or inconsistent behaviour on the core library?

>>62375854
Full metal jacket pill yourself retard.

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>>62376583
>>62376555
>PHPfags will defend pic related
You're as bad as the golang retards

>>62376137
>It has a lot of online resources
This is both a pro and a con. A lot of those resources are absolute shit, and if you look in the wrong place, you'll find code that mostly works, but is unmaintainable fucking garbage you should never use, but nobody will tell you and you won't find out until it's too late.

>>62376609
>>62376645

What is "===" ya cum consumers?

>>62376609
>>62376645
this happens for any dynamically typed and cast-on-the-fly languages. Its a part of the sacrifice. Like the other anon said, if you're using == and but are in need of a type comparison too, you need ===.

>>62376645

"0" -> FALSE
"00" -> TRUE

>>62375854
>Redpill me on PHP

>PHP7 fast and sexy as fuck.
>Best documentation online
>Composer
>Top tier frameworks like Symfony
>Painless deployment

Overall pure 7/10 would code.

Just stay away from Wordpress and all the Codeigniter pajeet code.

Only reason people hate on PHP is because it's a dynamic language in the sense that you don't need to create types for your variables, that opens up alot of possibilities and flexibility.
These cucks hate anything that isn't C anyway, fucking losers.

>>62375854
It's unequivocally shit. You should switch to an object oriented language, so you take the red pill and realize OOP sucks.

I like the elephant, it's cute. I like php, it let's me job hopefully.

>>62375854
Use Perl.

>>62375854
pip install django

        array_filter($array, $callback);
        array_map($callback, $array);

#JustPHPThings

>>62375854
it pays the bills

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>>62376467
non aussie detected. git -push out me country

>>62378012
>django
>muh every model is a separate "app"
>muh controllers are views
>muh views are templates
>wait muh controllers are actually part of the framework
>no they're views

muh dick

>>62378032

 array array_filter ( array $array [, callable $callback [, int $flag = 0 ]] )
array array_map ( callable $callback , array $array1 [, array $... ] )

kys OK?

>>62378705
This. Django is a pile of shit created as a cms for a newspaper. Rails is far supierior and much more comfy.

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>>62376609
Learn tour table

As far as scripting languages go, I'd unironically pick PHP over Python or Ruby any day. And not just for web (I'm not a webdev faggot), we're talking general purpose scripting.

>comfy C-like syntax
>no GIL, so can into actual multithreading with pthreads
>fast
>sane scoping rules
>sane OO implementation (with proper fucking encapsulation)
>anonymous functions way comfier than in Python and Ruby
>dynamic but supports type hinting (including scalar types and return type hints as of recently) so you get best of both worlds

Sure PHP has some disgusting warts, but if you don't need the language to babysit you and if you know what you're doing, PHP just gets the fuck out of your way and lets you create shit. Unfortunately for most """webdevs""" who have no clue about programming, it also gets out of your way when you're creating disgusting spaghetti to hang yourself from. The terabytes of absolutely shitty code written by clueless Pajeets is the main reason for PHP's shit reputation, BTW. This and some ancient abominations like Wordpress refusing to fucking die already.

>>62379896
> having to remember this amount of bullshit just in order to be able to write some basic backend for your webapp
shiggy.tiff

>>62378705
You

>>62375854

1) It's literally everywhere. Throw a stone and you'll hit a website written in PHP.

2) Tons of jobs. PHP doesn't bring you high salaries like Python, Ruby or Go (unless you are really experienced, of course). But if you want "the comfy way", do PHP. It will still bring you enough money to live comfy and you'll meet laid back developers.

3) /g/ hates is, and it's generally good advise to do the opposite of what 4chan tells you.

4) Super easy deployment, LAMP stack is still one off the most common stacks and you'll get PHP hosting for small money and little configuration.

5) Laravel.

6) You can work pretty close to bare metal, when you are more experienced. Things like Go, Ruby or Python always tempt you to use frameworks, but it's perfectly fine to have an (almost) static website with some dynamic PHP comments in between.

7) You can avoid writing more JS than necessary.

>>62378705

Hahaha..


>>62379027

I think both Django and Rails have their good sides and their bad sides.

Rails is super comfy, whatever you want to do, Rails has your back. Downside is if you get better with programing you might find some things more restrictive or not really benefit for them. For example I don't really like active record. It's sometimes "overkill".

Django is not so comfy, you have to do more config by yourself and it's not the "aim/fire!" feeling of rails. But I found Django cleaner than rails, you don't have to dig so deep to find out where in the world you did configure some module.

Both frameworks are good on their own.

>>62381073
>Laravel.
is joke

>>62380242
>===
>having to remember

are you retarded or something?

>>62381395
Not retarded, just prefer not to fight the very programming language I'm using while writing code. Now go manage your NPE that your retarded PHP has barely learned how to catch a couple of releases ago

>>62381713
>just prefer not to fight
>not to fight
>fight at all

WTF dude8? You are the one who insist strict mode. Those are the rules of the language then. You're not fighting shit.

Take it or leave it.

>>62381833
since we're talking pajeet languages here - even the fucking java is better - at least it's consistent. While you don't even have a sane namespace implementation...

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>>62376645
how about that

<?php

    if ("test" == 0)
        print 1;

>>62382254

Seriously, how often have you compared text to numbers throughout your programming life?

In every programming language on earth you would do some kind of type check first, if you expect text.

The early internet was all about "try to make it work", that's why JS or CSS were implemented to keep on going if something weird happend (i.e. compare text to number). Same goes for PHP.

>>62382254
Have you ever used parseInt()? If you did, it is kind of the same.

>>62376609
>>62376645
>what is dynamic language
You are fucking retarded nigger

>>62382556
and yet racket/clojure/SBCL don't have this problem. MAYBE - just maybe - they refrain from doing retarded type conversions, as any sane dynamic language would.

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It was considered AIDs, per this example:
>>62376645

Some people switched to rails, and then it turned to shit.

Then some bright individual unleashed server-side JavaScript upon the world. JavaScript, where not giving a fuck about primitive types is a """"""""feature""""""""" among other things.

Then people realized that php wasn't that bad. And was actually tried and tested and worked well with web servers for most things.

Its now anti-bloat web 1.0 contrarian to use php and that's pretty weird but great.

>>62383104
> It sucks but at least it's not ruby or javascript
this

>>62375854
Its literally just C for the internet. A real coders dreamland.

>>62383192
This.

>>62383192
Hate to break it down for you, but C for the internet is C. PHP is a crap language that can't even make up its mind on what the fucking kind of a language it wants to be: OOP, procedural, or all of them at once.

The only reason it's even still relevant today is that it enabled the pajeets to quickly copypaste code in HTML and it just worked. Oh, and that steaming pile of garbage that's wordpress/drupal/joomla/ecc., which are dying because even the pajeets themselves are disgusted by their code.

Stop pretending that the language you use at your shitty overpaid backend webdev job is even acceptable to be used by anybody with half a brain.

>>62376827
doesn't happen for python
dynamic typing does not imply weak typing

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>>62383547
t. larping node tranny

>>62383192
>C for the internet
have you ever anything cgi?
and c is way more consistent than php ever was or will be (backwards compatibility is kind of a must, v7 changed some things but not everything)

>>62383631
I'm a lisp programmer, but I kinda understand the node """"code artisans"""": I'd cut my dick off too, if the only platform I knew was node

>>62375854
There's nothing to say.

It was created as a templating engine for personal use by one man, who admitted that he hates programming, does not have a fucking clue on how to create a programming language and used strlen as a hashing function for the hashmap with function names, which is why we have the amazingly inconsistent standard library we have today

Eventually it was picked up by jews. Then, some people started using it on their websites. It seemed easy to use, you could just take your existing HTML page and add PHP tags to output something dynamic. If you had chosen C or Perl, you'd have to convert your entire page into a series of prints or one huge clusterfuck printf that you can play the game "where does the placeholder go" with.

PHP has always been a non-programming language for non-programmers. So when actual PHP programmers entered the scene, all hell broke loose. PHP makes it way too easy to create buggy programs and MORE THAN ANYTHING insecure programs.
SQL injections and XSS have never been such a huge issue in other languages as they have been in PHP. You might say "Yes, but that's not the language's fault, but the programmers'!, but you're wrong. The reason there have always been very few PHP programmers and many retards is because anyone clever enough to use PHP well is already clever enough to notice its flaws and choose something else to program in.

The PHP community has worked hard and has created an ecosystem - standards (PSR), package management and standardized autloading (composer, PSR-0, PSR-4) that makes using PHP versions after 5.3 somewhat bearable.

But it's still basically a retarded Java at this point. Any paradigm except for OOP is completely unusable today and even that is just a worse version of Java's, the standard library and operators are a complete mess that can never be fixed (muh backwards compatibility) and thus every general purpose language with an HTTP library and good templating does PHP's job better now.

>>62383760
this

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>>62383711
>complains about crap languages
>lisp

ittig

>>62383760
> hates PHP
> recommends Java

lol

>>62383841
> in a thread about PHP
> thinks he can talk about some actual programming languages
blub programmer pls go
>>62383883
not him but as shit as it is, java is still better than *that*

>>62383883
Fuck no, I don't recommend Java. If I have to recommend something, it would be C# or Go.

Most efficient languages are just horrible for web development. Maybe Rust can change things?

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>>62383711
>I'm a lisp programmer
gave away the trole too soon m9

>>62383928
clojure is lisp, pal

>>62383912
>Fuck no, I don't recommend Java. If I have to recommend something, it would be C#
lmao

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>>62383760
You can word replace this whole post with ruby or javascript. The cancer exists in silicon valley.

Without these commercialized bloat jew salesmen, we'd all think a front-end templating languages were pretty neat for small projects.

>>62383912
>>62383954
And thus we illustrate why PHP is still widely used today. Aside from inertia itself, other options are also hated and maligned for different reasons. Justly or not, PHP doesn't quite get enough hate to overcome it's few strengths.

>>62383912
What would Rust do for webdev?

Got a second interview for a php dev role. My php has gone to shit since I've not used it in so long, I barely remember it. I'm running through the php lessons on laracast right now.

What can I do to get ready for the interview? I think I have 2 weeks or so.

>>62383954
C# does everything Java does better.

There are no "good" languages to write web servers in. They all suck.
But at least C# is pretty good as a language. And with .net core and asp.net core, you can now host C# webservers everywhere.

>>62384162
>C# does everything Java does better.
In the same way that C++ does everything C does better, I guess.

>>62384128
Check http://www.arewewebyet.org/ and see if it fits your needs.

>>62384266
Spoken like someone who never used it.

>>62384382
not an argument

>>62382423
this isn't the early internet anymore though. there's no excuse for it

>>62383883
saying java is better is not the same as recommending java

>>62383760
yup, php is a retarded choice

>>62384617
I'm not here to convince you of anything.

Other than that PHP is a disgusting language.

>>62385286
We can both agree on that at least.

>>62384617
It's a statement. Being able to tell statements from arguments should be a pretty fundamental skill if you want to comment on programming languages.

At least you got one thing right, php sucks ass no matter how you look at it

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What does /pro/g/ think of the new meme perpetuated by PHPfags that goes like this
>well sure the language USED TO suck but that was before PHP 7
>PHP 7 fixed PHP and now it is as good as $another_language

>>62388830
What did PHP7 even "fix"?

>>62382254
use === or no equal signs at all
it's the same as python or JS.
NaN === NaN is the real CPU fucker

PHP its a pretty decent language. No matter what people here say it. There is a big difference bettween "coding" php and know how to code it. In any language.

If php was a new hipster language everybody here ll kiss is ass.

>>62381073
> You can work pretty close to bare metal, when you are more experienced
Heheeh now idiots call something without framework or restrictive patterns bare metal? Nu developers

At least it's the only good thing, you can program shit the way you want without having to be fucking enclosed in a shitty framework like ruby, but at most cases php is just chaotic especially when you end up with several files a d classes. Still prefer than ruby.

>>62388830
That's absurd. It hardly fixed anything.
There are completely worthless type hints, which will work differently depending on whether the file the caller is in (not the function being called) uses the new declare strict types bullcrap which is a horrible design decision in itself.

They also don't do shit for you if you need your function to work with multiple different types.

The return types in 7.0 were completely worthless because they were not nullable. That's why every single library skips 7.0 and goes straight for 7.1 (https://gophp71.org/)
They're still pretty much crap because there are no generics, though. This is the bane of every single PHP collection library, which are unfortunately needed because the SPL collections are worthless and "arrays" being a frankenstein-monster amalgamation of every data structure ever that keeps changing between what it actually is.

PHP's fundamental flaws can't be fixed, it's way too late for that. The standard library and its awful inconsistencies, the operators, the $, the "array" syntax, the inability to be used as a real templating engine because you can't auto-escape output, php.ini, superglobals...
Even if the core devs were willing or able to fix things, they couldn't.

>>62391379
I'll admit one thing, though: The null coalescing operator is a fine addition.
Much better than isset or the massive performance hit and all around wrong practice of using the error silencing operator (@).

>>62391379
phps arrays are fine. they can be used as a hash, an array, or a dictionary. it's not rocket science.

>>62375892
XDebug literally takes minutes.

PHP has plenty of issues if you write shit code, but so does every other language. PHP 7 mitigates most of them if you use the new features like type hinting. Most PHP hate stems from people having to work on legacy code written by someone who was a shit developer.

>>62391631
Yeah, and they change between them depending on the keys.

[0 => 'Hello', 1 => 'World!']

Is treated as a list.

[1 => 'FUCK', 2 => 'THIS LANGUAGE']

Is treated as a hashmap.

json_encode the first and you get a JSON-array. Serialize the second and you get a JSON object. Congrats, that already fucks up most json consumers.

Or if you use array_merge to merge two "arrays" into one, merging the first with itself would yield

[0 => 'Hello', 1 => 'World', 2 => 'Hello', 3 => 'World']

While merging the second with itself would just yield

[1 => 'FUCK', 2 => 'THIS LANGUAGE']

Because it operates differently. Depending on the fucking array keys. You can NEVER trust a function to always return a hashmap. If you don't check for this all over your code, stuff will break in mysterious ways.

It's also pretty easy to accidentally transform lists into hashmap. A simple array_filter or unset will do. Well, whoops!

This is a huge fuck up. I don't think any other language has these problems. There are lists (different kinds, for different performance requirements) and maps/dictionaries (also usually different ones).
PHP doesn't give a fuck. It was designed to be "easy to use", but all they did was make it easy to fuck up unless your program is trivial.

That's the thing. PHP was designed to solve trivial things. Show a list of things from your database in your page. Show the current time.

The language fails to support complex programs by design.
There's only so much we can fix with wrapper libraries for PHP's standard library and community standard guidelines.

>>62390781

You are retarded on so many levels.

Let me help you:

>idiots call something without framework or restrictive patterns bare metal

When it comes to web design, "bare metal" refers to raw HTML. Or if you are such a hotshot, than you can also program PHP directly on the Xen hypervisor. Bare metal enough for you?

>without having to be fucking enclosed in a shitty framework like ruby

Ruby is a language. You probably mean Rails, right?
Also you can program with Ruby pretty direct, i.e. one the apache mod. Or more common: using the Rack interface.

>Still prefer than ruby.

You probably mean "PHP is still preferable to Ruby", right? Somehow I don't think you have ever programmed in Ruby.


But anyway, thanks for your opinion!
You certainly brought this discussion to a whole new level.

>>62391894
Having one "array" type for everything is PHP's biggest failing.

>>62391894
By now asp classic is better. And asp classic isn't even more maintened by Microsoft.

>>62392027
>Running atop of a interpreter is bare metal now

Excellent. Web developers are the cancer of development.

>>62381073
>PHP doesn't bring you high salaries like Python, Ruby or Go
That's because there are barely any jobs in Ruby or Go. Python is a maybe.

>>62381073
Laravel is complete fucking trash.

And what the fuck is your idea of a high salary? With no college degree, as a PHP architect I make close to 200k.

>>62392098

Dude, maybe you should google libvirt and xen.

>>62381073
Laravel is pants on head retarded.

I will never understand why they use symfony's amazing dependency injection library only to tightly couple objects together (and to the framework) by encouraging "facades".

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>>62392187
>Php architect
Almost meme like a code artisan

>>62381368
>>62392187

Elaborate please.

Laravel is pretty smooth and just as good as Django or Rails.

>>62376773
>===
why not just make == work the way everyone expects it to?

>>62392343
Because when you're constantly receiving data from the web, you don't get guaranteed strings or ints. That's how it was back in the day.

>>62392261
Sorry but I'm failing to see your point.
It don't matter if you can manage libvirt with php, php still is an interpreted language running atop of php DLLs who also needs a webserver to run.
Afaik there isn't a way to compile php code to machine code so you can never say it's bare metal.

>>62392343
This is class 101 , do you want some pajeet to teach you ? when they know it

>>62392187
architecture is language independent

learn to lie better fag

>>62392430

Boo fucking hoo, is "bare metal" a special term that only engineers and MAAAYBE assembly programmers can use?
Cry some more while I deploy PHP on my bare metal server.

>>62392562
holy shit you're retarded

>>62392562
Ok kiddo I see now running an interpreter is considered bare metal. Didn't know the numale movement reached infrastructure

>>62391894
array_values you ignoramus, it's not a problem of php but the json function

>>62392317

It encouraged sloppy coding. Not in the code, necessarily, but optimization wise. It's a slow as fuck frankenstein's monster of Symfony components hidden by another layer of abstraction. It ncourages eager loading and piss poorly optimized database calls. To boot, it literally refers to itself as the framework for "Artisans" when it's really the framework for people who fucking suck at development but this will make all those scary concepts go away.

>>62392509
>>62392282
Pardon me, I'm the application architect, the entire stack, but our application is written in PHP and Angular.

>>62392901

>sticks_and_stones.php


>>62393072

>I will call him a nu male, that will teach him, hehe

Literally kill yourself.

>>62392317
it's not Falcon kys

>>62391379
>>type hints
>>They also don't do shit for you if you need your function to work with multiple different types.
>Hurr, type juggling is bad because types get implicitly converted.
>Durr, explicit type hinting is also bad because it doesn't allow implicit type juggling.

>>62393564
Phalcon is boss as fuck.

>>62381073
This. PHP got me a job when the market sucked and I had no degree. You can't beat it for job availability.

>>62393617
type """""hinting""""" is the most retarded thing ever. You either implement some sane fucking type inference, or you stay in the dynamic area. Anything else exists only to produce confusion and halfassed code.

>>62393913
hack is faster because they require them

>>62393952
if someone wants types in their code then what's the point in using PHP? go for C#, java or even the fucking haskell then

>>62391894
That's the thing. PHP was designed to solve trivial things. Show a list of things from your database in your page. Show the current time.

As someone who's stuck in "html 1.0" land, what other purposes are there other than dynamically loading data into a table from some database?

I would use PHP to create a dynamic page based on user accounts/data from a db.. and I guess I'd use CSS for fancy visual shit... and maybe have to throw in some javascript also.

What other purposes are people trying to use with PHP??? (I'm not asking ironically). I learned HTML in 1997 and called it a day... and only last year did I learn PHP for a LEMP project I've been doing.

>>62393913
the most retarded thing is building strict types on top of a dynamic language, see typescript and transpilers. you go with what the language gives you, or you'll make it slower, magic getter/setters in php should be avoided for that reason too.

>>62394056
Sorry - in this case the type hinting becomes the second most retarded thing :^)

>>62394055
whoops, first line should be greentext

>>62393913
Type hinting is literally best of both worlds in the static vs. dynamic dispute as it allows you to introduce all the (often mundane but helpful) bureaucracy of statically typed languages where needed, while keeping simplicity and flexibility of dynamic typing where that's appropriate. If too much freedom makes you confused and produce shit code, I'm afraid it's a PEBKAC case.

>>62394355
you think about type inference, type hinting is actually no more than the java casting. As some anon above said,
>>62383760
>it's still basically a retarded Java at this point
Take for example the racket's type inference: it uses the type `Any` by default for everything, but you can define types in some functions' signatures like `Number->Number`, which would then actually be useful instead of just casting its parameters to some particular type.

>>62394484
I don't know if there's a nomenclature confusion, but what you describe is exactly how PHP "hinting" works. Function defined as

foo($bar)

accepts any type of $bar, whereas

foo(Baz $bar)

only accepts $bar that is of type Baz (if Baz is one of core types), implementing Baz (if it's an interface name) or instances of Baz or its extending classes (if it's a class name). There's no casting involved, a non-Baz argument causes TypeError (and is picked up by static analysis in most IDEs).

>>62393564
>>62393633
A fucking right, brothers. I wasn't aware that anyone actually knew about Phalcon. It should be the number one PHP framework but fucking plebs are too stupid to use it.

>>62395932
>using a framework

>>62395956
>writing all that boilerplate yourself

Phalconist is written in C. I would think it was something to make /g/ love php.