>explain to my family that I don't want a state ID card

What do you have to hide, Anon? Are you that much of a shut in that you don't see the convenience of an ID card?

>>61785517
Good for you recognizing """realID""", most Amero losers from the early 2000s slept on the fact that it happened.

That said, who knows man. Stay woke.

>>61785517
The government already has your info, nothing on your ID they wouldn't know about.

>>61785517
Yup.

Your parents want whats best for you and being a slave is the most convenient way for you to be successful anon. Just listen to them unless you plan on being a hermit or a billionaire who can go into hiding.

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it's your fault for showing you power level. you are not worthless.

You do come across as a paranoid retard if you drop spaghetti on privacy issues

>>61785573
what exactly is this? I took a quick peek at the Wikipedia article, and basically all I'm getting out of it is that several regulated pieces of infrastructure such as plane flights must take state ID and accept it as your legitimate identification. What's the problem?

>>61785517
Remind to your family that they are dumb fucks.

>>61785517
Get ready to be reported&deported

>>61785517
Start running Anon. Your family has already reported your dissent to the state and agents will come to capture and reeducate you shortly.

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>>61785517
>"Mom. MOOOOM!!!"
>"What?"
>"The government is spying on us! I don't want that! I don't like anyone knowing how I waste my life away on /g/ with fellow losers who equally have nothing consequential to be discovered by government authorities and no money to spend on products, thus rendering corporate ad profiling useless. It's a breach of my G*d-given freedoms (even though I don't believe *tips*)"
>"...Whatever, anon."

How OP's conversation really went down

>>61786549
This.

Also underage b&

>>61786332
Some states issue IDs without requiring proof of citizenship documents and the REALID act basically forces everyone to get (more expensive) IDs that take longer to process just to fly or get a passport.
It also registers everybody in a national database.
Basically it gets rid of privacy, inconveniences everybody, and does absolutely nothing for security while making it harder for people to get IDs especially legal immigrants who might not have official passports from their home country.

We may as well just have a federal ID and get rid of state IDs entirely.

My family is more paranoid when it comes to privacy than me.

But life experience tells me its usually not a good idea to listen to the advice of other people.

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>>61785517
>it's over

its been over for decades. I know you were born circa early 2000's so you think things were different back then but they weren't.

what you do is get the state ID so you can buy alcohol to help forget about how much the government is cucking you.

How does having ID violate your privacy or let the government spy on you? You do know the government already has all the information that would be on your ID, right?

>>61786718
A central database containing everyone's info - with the shitty security typical of government databases.
A gold mine for Chinese hackers.

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>>61786549
</thread>

>>61786727
ching chong knows my name and address
ching chong managed to read the yellow pages

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>>61785517
Something similar actually happened to me this week.
My mother came over and I minimized all my windows in front of her.
She was very offended but it quickly turned into what are you hiding.
Of course, privacy should never be equated to secrecy, but this was extra ridiculous because I have the most honest and open relationship with my parents of anyone I know.
She's worried that she will somehow get in trouble for whatever nefarious deeds she's now imagining I do and have everything taken from them and all our lives ruined.
I wish I was cool or capable enough to live up to such fears...
Sorry mom, I just masturbate, watch embarrassing cartoons, and talk to retarded bigots online for some reason, there's really nothing to be worried about.

>>61786549
That pic...

I SWORE TO MY FATHER I WOULD NEVER USE HAMSTER-STYLE AGAIN
>Dad, I'll never use Hamster-style again.
>Okay.

>>61786869
Ching Ching can sell your name, address, employment history, social security number, and recreations of all your documents.

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>>61785517
game over, man

it never ceases to amaze me how neo/g/ is actually and unironically anti privacy

>>61785517
I know that feel, my family thinks I'm crazy because I tell them the CIA is out to get me

>>61786727
The government already has all the information that you need to get an ID card.

>>61785555
>What do you have to hide, Anon?
fucking hell i hate this almost as much as "just be yourself"

>>61786992
go to bed terry
you are drunk

>>61786996
They actually don't, and certainly not in a central database. Or there wouldn't be any need to specify provisions for that in the RealID act
Your birth certificate for example is held by your local courthouse wherever you were born, not the fed.
Contrary to popular belief government isn't one faceless entity.

>>61785517
Nationwide ID card to use when identification is required is a problem how?

Spying on emails without solid individually issued court order I also disagree with, you could get that level of privacy in some countries.

>>61787013
But it's true

>>61787052
I do not get the issue regardless.Surely they do not want to put ALL your info in that one database, but mainly just identification info?

Our IDs contain basically:
> name, gender, birth date, nationality, a photo, signature, card number, start and end date of validity
And maybe some more like biometrics (can be as simple as "eye color" and done) or current place where your address is registered.

Stuff you're generally required to provide to a government anyhow if they want you to identify yourself or even fill in official forms.

>>61787347
All of it. Copies of the documents you submit for the ID, usually birth certificate, passport, proof of residency, etc. Literally all your info.

>>61787362
Sounds like all of this is still very ID related?

I'm not seeing the problem still. Yea, the government can identify yourself, and of course they may have to answer basic questions by other governments who wish to verify passports.

And the rest is what documents your citizenship even if they for example mess up data on an individual ID (and be it a stupid typo in your name), isn't it?

>>61785517
>having contact with family


this board is 18+

>>61787539
Believe it or not, some adults actually get along with their families.
Some even like their parents and can enjoy spending time with them.
I'm sorry you have such a shitty life Anon, truly.

>>61787514
See
>>61786940

And it's a huge violation of privacy in the first place.
It also costs states a huge amount of money, because of all the required document storage and the extra processing necessary especially for replacing all the hundreds of millions of "noncompliant" IDs currently in the wild.
That means higher fees, longer lines, etc. And trouble for people who may not have complete records such as immigrants and the elderly.
States are required to store all the biometrics and documents for everyone who applies for an ID, even if they're turned down. Again, a massive government intrusion into people's lives.

>>61787052
sounds like another example of shitty inefficient burger government

>>61785517
The government already has all your info

>>61786906
Should have shown her your porn.

>>61787614
> See >>>61786940
Eh, it's kind-of dangerous if this DB was altered, but other than that...?

I mean, if you don't have an ID database that can be queried, you don't even need to steal more than your name and address off some letter. If that's as far as you can check who you are, that's what's enough to impersonate you.

OTOH it'd be at least a basic problem for someone else to make himself look like me, imitate my signature, and such. And it would certainly be a problem to exploit on a larger scale.

> because of all the required document storage
Oh please, that's peanuts

> nd the extra processing necessary especially for replacing all the hundreds of millions of "noncompliant" IDs currently in the wild.
If you didn't have a national ID system before but only 1000 incompatible forms of state / municipal or whatever IDs, it'll be much cheaper to replace them and work with the new united system.

Things also got so much easier when they passed some ID standards for the EEA ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_identity_cards_in_the_European_Economic_Area ).

> That means higher fees, longer lines, etc.
No, really: How could you make one national ID harder to work with than 1000 incompatible regional ones?

> States are required to store all the biometrics and documents for everyone who applies for an ID, even if they're turned down.
How can you even be turned down for an ID if you are a citizen by whatever predecessor system there was?

>>61786626
legal immigrants have federal IDs already you moron

>>61785517
if they say "I have nothing to hide" then ask them why they are misquoting Joseph Goebbels who said "if you have nothing to hide then you have nothing to fear"

>>61786940
I live on a country with mandated IDs. The only information they have is your name, address, signature, and a number you get assigned as soon as you're born, also stamped on your birth certificate. That's it.

>>61787791
Yup, you're not getting in without a passport (and for work a work visa + insurance, a visit to the embassy with a personal talk and references and stuff like that).

Though back when I did that, it didn't actually set me up with any form of ID that was useful to deal with the local municipal / state government or people that could rent me a room / flat or people that could sell me a car or issue a driver's license or whatever else.

These things you had to get locally, which took weeks, and the whole thing was a bit tedious and silly.

>>61787780
They aren't "incompatible" in the sense you think they are under the current system. Also, there are only 50 states anon.
You think it's free to store and maintain millions of documents?

Because you might not have whatever document they want. Plenty of people get turned down for IDs for various retarded reasons, but they'll keep your data anyway even if you decide to move elsewhere.

Again, that's a major security risk.
Now imagine if every time you went to a site that used Google Auth or whatever they kept a copy of your password even if you delete the account. More places that have the data, the more likely it is you will be affected by a breach somewhere.

Higher fees because of the some 6 billion dollars it'll take to transition to this system, and because the IDs will require more processing which means more labor. Extra processing means more waiting, multiple trips if some document came back as unacceptable, etc.

Again, because it requires different documents so if for example you're a remarried woman and don't have your current name on your birth certificate you could be denied.
Hell, some people have birth certificates that have the wrong birthday, etc and that is enough to deny you. God help you if you're too poor to go through the process of getting that corrected.

>>61787791
Not all of them, some people have been here since before 9/11 you know.

>>61788027
if they're legal immigrants they always needed a passport to get in here

>>61787603
This

>>61788059
Doesn't mean they still have it since passports do expire and they hadn't necessarily been to their original country any time recently.

>>61788157
you need a valid passport to stay in the us

>>61788027
> Also, there are only 50 states anon.
If states decide, maybe some delegated some parts down to the municipalities or whatever?

Well, even if not, they probably made at least 40 largely incompatible systems.

> You think it's free to store and maintain millions of documents?
But the alternative isn't that they don't do it, the alternative is that they do it many times differently. And that it gets annoying and hard to verify anything between states and nations, right?

> Again, that's a major security risk.
No.

> Now imagine if every time you went to a site that used Google Auth or whatever they kept a copy of your password even if you delete the account.
Yea, once you sent your password once you should assume the other party has that password.

But this isn't a password, this is identification that your government can verify. It RAISES the bar to having to look like you in terms of age, size, height, eye colour before the government official in front of you might think it is somewhat certain he is talking to you. Ditto for other entities that are allowed to know (IDK, maybe you let banks query this ID information?). Nothing much else.

> Higher fees because of the some 6 billion dollars it'll take to transition to this system, and because the IDs will require more processing which means more labor.
As opposed to how much to deal with many different systems? And how the fuck would you make it harder to process that ID? I mean, the EEA examples (it's not all entirely the same, just the machine readable and general features are the same) work fine, how would you mess this up?

> that is enough to deny you.
How were you even acknowledged as a citizen before by the state or where you were registered...?

>>61787539
I know some people aren't as fortunate, but to many family is extremely important. If your parents were monsters I completely can understand where your worldview comes from though

>>61788162
No you don't, not at all.
>>61788170
No anon, states just issue the card and don't do any kind of document retention. Like I said the systems aren't incompatible it's just that the fed is changing the rules. I can still use my non RealID license to go to texas and buy booze, I just couldn't fly there. The cards all use the same data barcode, have the same data on them, etc.

The alternative IS that they don't do it, because they don't do it now.

For the purposes of authentication these things are in fact your "password" for getting credit cards, loans, buying property, everything. The card itself is easy to fake but with access to those documents it just makes Mr. identity thief more easily able to pretend to be me.

It won't cost anything extra to not transition to a new system. It takes more money to send off those documents for verification because there is now more procedure involved under the new rules. For example where I live a normal ID requires proof of identity, which is one or two documents that can be verified in the spot. A fee of $50. You get your temp card immediately and get the real one in a week. Before RealID that temp card would let you fly just fine.

The REALID compliant one requires the same proof of identity, plus a proof software residence, plus a proof of citizenship, plus any documents to verify name changes, plus an $80 fee (which they lowered from $100 to encourage people to switch). Takes 3 weeks to a month to process. You do get a temp ID immediately still, but for obvious reasons it isn't enough to let you fly any more.

You're still acknowledged as a citizen, not like they're going to deport you for having mismatched info. You'll just have trouble proving it. I have a suffix on my birth certificate, and some agencies treat it as part of my last name.
So I'll be like I'm Anony Mous and they'll say sorry, this says Anony MousIII and doesn't match.

Yes it's fucking retarded.

>>61787614
>And it's a huge violation of privacy in the first place.
How is it a privacy violation? In what way is your privacy violated by the government knowing who you are?

I feel it's usually better to hide in plain sight, I know the feds have all my info already but what they need to do is to actually connect it to me

If you look like every other Joe blow the suspicion is minimal as opposed to them seeing only having single piece of info on you which raises alarms

It's the same principle as tax evasion

>>61788548
It is violated by them keeping copies of my personal documents.

They already know who I am when I show them my state ID.

>>61785517
>don't want a state ID card
Are you retarded? You already have a social security number. There's nothing having a state ID does to diminish you in anyway.

Unless you're one of those clinically retarded sovcits in which case, go piss off a cop so they'll shoot you. You'll do the world a favor without your stupidity in it.

>>61788537
the fact is if you are in the country legally you have an ID in one way or another

or you should be forced to

>>61788681
That's simply not true for a variety of reasons. I mean there are people who were born in countries that don't even exist to issue documents anymore.