What's with the linux circlejerk here? Windows seems

>>61535520
are you on dial-up? updates are pretty quick for me

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>>61535512
Better question:

What's with all the Windows shill threads that all popped up at once?

Did r/windows10 stage an invasion and no one spoke up?

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hmmmmm

it's largely better than windows
the only thing it's really lacking in 2017 is third-party software support and better hybrid graphics management

>>61535551
I don't see what's gained by moving to Linux. I use Adobe software, which isn't on Linux, and play plenty of video games that aren't available on Linux.

>>61535561
then it's not for you

>>61535571
Who is it for?

>>61535580
sysadmins / programmers / computer security people

>>61535599
What do programmers gain by switching to Linux?

>>61535610
A functional programming environment that isn't controlled by Apple, mostly

>>61535621
TIL windows is controlled by apple

>>61535621
What makes the Linux programming environment more functional than Windows?

>>61535634
Have you ever tried running tools like Composer or Drush on windows?

It's slow as hell compared to Linux (or even Mac).

>>61535645
No, I'm a Java programmer

>>61535627
>>>/reddit/
Windows is laughable at best when it comes to delivering a programmers entire set of tools. Mac and Linux are about equal in my view, but Linux isn't cucked to Apple, so I use Linux.

>>61535730
>Windows is laughable at best when it comes to delivering a programmers entire set of tools
How so?

>>61535610
>Awesome free and open source software and tools

>Customizability and freedom to use it anyway you like
More productivity

>Not being controlled by Jews from Apple and Microsoft

>Stable OS with less shitty bloat and bugs

>>61535745
>Stable OS with less shitty bloat and bugs
Any Linux distribution with systemd (i.e. practically all of them) fits this description

>>61535527
Windows Update shitting itself for anywhere between two to infinity hours is a known issue, actually.

>>61535814
source?

>>61535738
Here's a few things.

1. Not unix-like. Honestly, fuck CMD and fuck PowerShell.

2. Outside Visual Studio, it's all dogshit. Even Notepad++ was revealed by wikileaks to leak plaintext to telemetry.

3. Java is a nightmare.

4. There's a reason so few in Silicon Valley use Windows for work.

>>61535512
>>>Fagbook

>>61535818
>Even Notepad++ was revealed by wikileaks to leak plaintext to telemetry.
oh shit, really?

>>61535818
why is java a nightmare?

>>61535825
what does facebook have to do with windows?

>>61535815
Microsoft:
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/2700567/windows-update-freezes-when-you-install-updates-in-windows-8--windows

This is common knowledge among sysadmins. I'm not sure what other sources to link.

>>61535655
>>61535512
>>61535561
poo in loo

>>61535655
Found the poo. Back to the loo

>>61535835
I would rather say that /g/ has nothing to do with Windows. Windows is being mentioned on /g/ merely because gaymers are not allowed to discuss gayming hardware on their board.

>windows users training to be mental gymnastics everyday by having to justify using an OS that is constantly sending data about them to Microsoft and the NSA, that strong arms you into stopping whatever you're doing to update (which are absurdly large in size), that doesn't have a tabbed file explorer in 2017, that has a comical filesystem, and has more security vulnerabilities than Cheeto crumbs in your typical Windows user's keyboard

>>61535512

If you have to ask (You) wont get it

>>61535887
>>61535882
sirs, how can you say I do not use the toilet properly merely because I program in a superior language to that of yours? I find this very unfair, sirs

>>61535852
That's win8, not win10

>>61535927
>constantly sending data about them to Microsoft and the NSA
I don't think Windows sends data to the NSA, and anything it sends to Microsoft is just boring telemetry that doesn't reveal much about the actual user

>>61535512
>What's with the Linux circlejerk here
Nothing. Here's nothing to watch. Go along. You saw nothing.

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>>61535983
In reality, Windows sends telemetry to thousands of different webhosts that are under contract by Microsoft but not directly Microsoft. There's no telling where your data goes, and the majority of it is metadata which actually can say a lot.

>>61536004
What kind of metadata is it sending?

>>61535978
I don't recall anyone mentioning Windows 10 in this particular reply chain.

linux is fucking shit

>>61536011
Mostly communication metadata, and error reports. I wouldn't be surprised if Win10 came with a keylogger, but I haven't seen proof of that. The things sent to these hosts are a few things that "help" microsoft, and a few blatant spyware features as a little side-dish.

>>61535634
Unix was designed as a research OS for programming r&d. Mac is directly based off Unix, and Linux is indirectly.
Windows is a 32 bit extension of a single user OS that had to have time sharing hacked in and was designed for computers without hard disks.

>>61536073
Can you be a bit more specific about "communication metadata" and "a few things that 'help' microsoft"?

>>61535512
aka being inside the box

>>61535795
Even void and Gentoo (non sysd) are quite stable

>>61536063
What are you doing on this board then?

>>61536098
A few things that help Microsoft means what they tell you it means. No bullshit there.

Other shit is completely useless, such as the number of files you've opened.

Communications metadata refers to what hosts you send data to, the size of the payload, the format, but not the communications itself. Only a few countries (the UK being one of them) actually sniff every byte that flows in and out of the country. America is too big for that.

One of the proven telemetry aggregators of Microsoft is MarkMonitor. You can easily find them with a simple google search, and a reverse who.is search makes bare their connection to Microsoft.

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>>61535830
Don't worry, it's fixed now :)

>>61536011
Basically anything Microsoft wants.

These things are collected on all Windows 10 machines:
- times you're on your computer
- all the IP addresses your computer uses
- what apps you have installed on your computer
- information about apps that crash, including core dumps, possibly including private information

These things are collected if you let Windows use the default privacy settings:
- an absolute fuckload of "diagnostic event data" of some sort
- a list of all hardware connected to your computer
- a list of all nearby WLAN networks (read: your physical location)
- when you launch each app and for how long you use it
- which UI elements you click or hover on, in some cases
- text you type into various search boxes
- stroke data for their retarded gesture writing system
- voice clips, in case you feel like using voice input for some reason
- possibly (?) random files off your disk if you use Defender's MAPS thing

Sources:
https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/configuration/windows-diagnostic-data
https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/configuration/basic-level-windows-diagnostic-events-and-fields

Basically, it doesn't collect too much. For now, anyway.

>>61536130
Trolling you

>>61535530
What's the problem with the 10 start menu?
It's pretty comfy, and the click on letters to show the corresponding apps is pretty comfy,

>>61535512
It's fundamentally wrong that most microsoft products are not software compatible to other OS'
MAC at least has stuff in common with every other unix like system. Microsoft is the odd ball so it's all proprietary stuff to shove more money into bill gates wallet when computers should be used to help people, not help fill bills over stuffed wallet.

I been using windows for years and it's ridiculous that the government gave them contracts and built a lot of their infrastructure for PC's and the internet around windows.
The user experience on windows is moving away from personal or utility use it's a consumer product for entertainment that's trying to milk you, I don't want my desktop stealing electricity, processing power, data bandwith, and my time reading it... to send me news updates or advertisements unless I run a program for it to do it specifically. It's an ugly direction it's going.

>>61535512
tahp bayt

>>61536258

>paying for advertisements

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>>61535561
Yu have advanced filesystem which can alert you by phone when a single file on your system becomes corrupt and provide self healing data with redundancy.
Have you no idea what a life without dataloss must feel like?

>>61536297
You must be confusing Linux for FreeBSD.

>>61536388
zfs is ported to linux.

>>61536408
Barely.

>>61535512
>What's with the linux circlejerk here? Windows seems perfectly fine to me.
Windows doesn't cut it for me.

>>61535561
>I don't see what's gained by moving to Linux.
> I use Adobe software, which isn't on Linux, and play plenty of video games that aren't available on Linux.
Then don't. But stop claiming that Windows is something I should use.

>>61535551

>3rd party
Everything is "3rd party" in it.

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>>61536417
0.7.0 rc4

>>61536417
>>61536388
>muh jails and zfs
While both are nice, that's pretty much all FreeBSD has going for itself.

Use FreeBSD on your file server, and Linux on everything else.

Fuck Linux. Fuck the many development forks...fuck the terminal...fuck .rpm .deb .tar .pup .bin and all the rest...fuck a thousand distro up to and including Hanna Montana Linux (yes it's fucking real)...fuck not just being able to download any Linux program for any Linux distro and click the Fucker and run it (and no that shit about Linux isn't one distro will not fucking fly ever)

Just fuck the whole convoluted and confusing mess...sorry but if even half this shit was fixed I'd get onboard in a heartbeat...but I've got shit to do and bullshitting with an operating system to get shit to do what I want is just something I have time for...sorry but fuck it.

And yes I used Linux a lot back in the day...ubuntu, mint, Mandriva (it has been awhile), fedora and even fucking puppy...and it's just the same shit over and over again.

Look normal people have shit to do other than tech...wife kids 40 to 60 hour a week jobs hobbies...Linux is just too much. Its not one os...and because it's not is why this shit will never get fixed.

We need one OS not 1000...we need standardization for every day desktop usage.

Hence regardless of what Linux offers (and it does offer a lot let's be honest) only servers and hobbyists will ever manage to utilize it.

Everyone else uses Windows...or Mac if they like the taste of dick.

Sorry but botnet or not the normal world has no choice in OS. Android/chrome is the closest we'll ever come to a Linux OS.

Sorry but that's just the way it is.

Fell free to tell me how full of shit I am and year of Linux desktop...blah blah blah...been hearing that shit for a decade and fuck all has changed.

>>61536506
>40 to 60 hour a week jobs hobbies...Linux is just too much. Its not one os...and because it's not is why this shit will never get fixed.
I use Linux at work mate.

Depends on your industry. I did 2 years of comp sci before switching to a creative industry. I'd never use anything but Linux for programming tasks, and never use anything but Windows for the creative software and ease of workflows.

Ideally, I'd prefer my software to run on Linux but it just doesn't because it's probably a pain in the ass to support it.

Either way, I am a Microsoft Man now. Browsing this in Edge and listening to Groove music, my transformation into a beast is complete.

>>61536512
I'm glad maintaining a server has provided you with a stable income...I weld metal for a major auto manufacturer and don't have a lot of time to fuck with shit...

Or maybe you program...it doesn't matter really. Either way congrats but most of us don't touch Linux.

>>61536540
>I'm glad maintaining a server has provided you with a stable income..
I don't maintain a server, I am a software developer.

>I weld metal
So in other words, you're the actual hobbyist here since you only use computers for fun and games, whereas I and many other use it as a crucial part of our livelihoods.

>Either way congrats but most of us don't touch Linux.
This is a niche forum and we discuss topics that are relevant to us. "Most of us" is not a valid argument for anything.

>>61536580
Actually...not really...I used to be a network admin but welding pays more.

Also I said programmer as a second guess so I was right.

Either way glad you make a no doubt fine living but I'm no hobbyist. Not anymore family and all that...no time.

My argument is simply for why most people who aren't professional or hobbyists do not use Linux...time and effort.

Take it or leave it but I'm out for now. Enjoy software development...

>>61536506
I agree with you but you sound like a retard saying "sorry" 50 times. Why are you even apologizing and what for? Also no one cares if "that's the way it is"

>>61536063
Wow nice argument there fagtron.

>>61536636
Hey man, leafs are people just like you and me. Don't be rude.

>>61536580
Actually no it not very niche here...with you gpu threads...smartphone generals...gamer threads...speccy threads....fucking jewelry threads...


4chan is not some dark corner of the web anymore. You're not niche and this place is filled with normies...hence my argument (which I never made one instead simply telling you why...it's an answer not meant to persuade) is completely valid.

>>61536623
>I used to be a network admin but welding pays more.
You're still not using computers professionally, even if you did in the past.

>Also I said programmer as a second guess so I was right.
And your point is... what, exactly? Are you surprised you found someone working in a computer-related profession on /g/ or something?

>Either way glad you make a no doubt fine living but I'm no hobbyist. Not anymore family and all that...no time.
If you don't use computers at work (aka not professionally), you pretty much are a hobbyist. That's the definition of being a hobbyist. If you don't spend much time using a computer at all, I'd agree, you are neither.

>My argument is simply for why most people who aren't professional or hobbyists do not use Linux...time and effort.
Your argument is misplaced. This is /g/, where hobbyists, professionals and enthusiasts come to discuss and shitpost. Why do you think your argument about neither of those three group holds any merit here at all? It's completely misplaced, I don't go to welding forums and complain about how welding is a complete waste of time now that 3D printing exist.

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>>61535512
t. shilling Pajeet

>>61536658
>Actually no it not very niche here...with you gpu threads...smartphone generals...gamer threads...speccy threads....fucking jewelry threads...
That is niche compared to the general population. It's not like Chad Thundercock and Jenna goes to a cocktail bar to catch some drinks and discuss AMD Ryzen.

>You're not niche and this place is filled with normies..
See above, and see >>61536686

>>61535512
>updates take 4-5 hours
kek

Because GNU/Linux is free as in FREEdom. And I want to be free.
These corporate fuckers with their goverment ties want to control us as much as they can so we would be obidient consumers who thank Big Brother for convinience that it's bringing in our lives.

>>61536506
>Fuck the many development forks
Why is this a problem? If you don't know what to pick then use ubuntu or something
>fuck the terminal
Why do you feel it's more confusing than windows which loves hiding stuff under a ton of menus?
>rpm .deb .tar .pup .bin
What's wrong with there being filetypes? Are you going to hate on .msi .exe .zip as well?
>fuck not just being able to download any Linux program for any Linux distro and click the Fucker and run it (
.deb which you listed is pretty much that
>Look normal people have shit to do other than tech
Why do you have to spend time with linux? On my system ubuntu justwerks better out of the box than linux does, I don't NEED to tweak anything if I just want to use it like a normal person
>We need one OS not 1000...we need standardization for every day desktop usage.
Isn't ubuntu standard enough for you?

The rest of the stuff you listed aren't even arguments

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linux penguin is really cute >.<

>>61535527
>implying windows updates taking hours have anything to do with the connection and not a retarded update system
pajeet pls

it's funny how everyone says that he is using linux and when there's a specs thread 90% of people have windows 7/8.1/10

>>61536258

Ads on the start menu

>>61535512

Windows only supports like two different filesystems or so. None of them feature COW or self-healing.

>>61536537
Get out

>>61538632
What is
>a specs thread
?

I don't see too many Windows users in the screenfetch threads, must mean that /g/ is 100% GNU/Linux!

>>61536537

If with beast you mean sheep then yes, I guess.

>>61538691
>I don't see too many Windows users in the screenfetch threads
that's because people don't use screenfetch on windows
there are a few threads about posting your PC specifications per week and it's always the same thing

>>61538718
You mean speccy threads? Gee, I wonder why those have no Linux posters. Maybe if they were called speccy/lshw threads instead.

>>61535561
How much do you think Micro$oft pays Adobe to not make a linux version of their software? Adobe software is on the top 5 list of arguments against using linux

getting windows to download updates is a pain but i honestly think windows is 10 times easier than linux.

once you get linux running, its the best general OS however, its bad for gaymen, image editing and video editing. the only work you can do on linux is basic computer shit and coding.

i think the way forward for power users who can't deal with botnet 10 is running windows and linux together via virtualisation.

>>61539304
not sure about this conspiracy theory but if Adobe products would be fully usable on Linux - I will switch full-time in no time!

>>61539428
>but i honestly think windows is 10 times easier than linux.
That's funny, I have the exact opposite experience. Everytime I want to do something in Windows, it keeps finding ways to make my life difficult. Every new version of Windows keep hiding more and more settings under new dialogues and "Advanced" settings.

>>61539489

You aren't going to like linux if you are a nigger cattle who gets coerced into using spyware by adobe so easily

>>61536686
> Everyone who is not a developer is a hobbyist
You are a fuckin idiot.

There is no way one does not use a computer at work. That does not make anyone a hobbyist you tool. People like you are why developers need gui designers, you have just no fuckin idea what normal people need in a computer.

>>61539659
>> Everyone who is not a developer is a hobbyist
That's not at all what I said, you flaming retard. I said everyone who is not a professional, is a hobbyist.

The rest of your post is basically arguing a straw man argument I never wrote so it's irrelevant.

>>61539666
>I said everyone who is not a professional, is a hobbyist.
Everyone who works is a professional in his trade and in 99% of jobs he will use a computer productively. So what is even the point of your bullshit post?

>>61539428
>image editing

gahnoo/loonix is generally fine for photography with there being at least two decent lightroom alternatives and gimp being a decent replacement for photoshop elements, and for a lot of hobby/non-photography use gimp with addons is an alternative to photoshop if not a direct replacement, the area it's lacking is 'professional' image editing which has always been the osx and more recently windows domain - it's not like video editing where there just isn't an alternative

I don't think anyone ever seriously suggests completely shifting your entire professional workflow to gnu/linux especially if that is a workflow in which gnu/linux is historically lacking

>>61539567

that was my experience, when I had to seriously start googling for things as well as looking up on msdn/stackoverflow/etc only for the answer to usually be "not a bug, feature" or "can't fix/won't fix", or more commonly, "this $59.99 program that won't receive support ever might fix your problem" I decided the switch to gnu/linux wasn't any more effort than sticking to windows, and it was better for my needs to boot

>>61539689
>Everyone who works is a professional in his trade and in 99% of jobs he will use a computer productively
Are you illiterate, or just pretending to be? HE'S A FUCKING WELDER, for fuck's sake.

>So what is even the point of your bullshit post?
The point of my "bullshit" post is that if you come here to this board, where we discuss computers and many of us are professionals or at least studying to become professionals, and you argue that Linux sucks because Joe the Plumber and Frank the Welder doesn't have time to unlearn Windows and learn Linux instead, you're not making a valid point.

>>61539725
>Are you illiterate, or just pretending to be? HE'S A FUCKING WELDER, for fuck's sake.
Yes, he is, you obviously have no fuckin idea how crafting jobs look nowadays.

In first world countries that involves taking or even making security audits, making appointments, organizing or taking part meetings for gathering information about the production process. Even a welder does not only weld all day like a stupid monkey in a productive environment. Your view of people working is completely arrogant and close minded.

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>>61536293
>>61538645

Settings > Personalization > Start > Occasionally show suggestions in Start

Is that better?

>>61535551
>hybrid graphics management
PRIME allows per-application granularity of switching. What more do you want?

>>61539772
How high does your sense of entitlement need to be when you come to a tech forum where people who develop software, administrate networks and systems for hundreds of users, manage hundreds for servers, etc and loudly voice your opinion while telling that everyone that disagrees with you are an exception, simply because you use a computer at work to write a handful of emails and use a glorified calendar?

Face it, no one here cares that you don't like Linux because your computer-related tasks are trivial as fuck.

>>61535599
>linux for sysadmins
Having to fix my own system every time before I actually do my job? No thanks.

>>61535512
Windows can't even be a competent thin client OS anymore since updates to Win10 broke the shit out of VcXsrv and X2goclient.

>>61539840
>Face it, no one here cares that you don't like Linux because your computer-related tasks are trivial as fuck.
I'm sysadmin you fuckin dork.
I'm not the same as the welder dude.

And I'm using linux for server tasks whenever our budget is limited or the use of windows generally makes no sense. But there are people who I work for and they don't get linux. And you obviously don't get those people. That's why linux is as user unfriendly as it is and that's why it doesn't rule the desktop. Not some weird conspiracy theory.

You talk about entitlement. Good god, kill yourself.

Android is actually a good example where a company made something linux like usable. If google would spend some effort making android usable for the desktop instead of throwing a glorified browser on a laptop microsoft would be in serious trouble. But I don't see that happening soon.

>>61539897
This

>>61539897
>Having to fix my own system every time before I actually do my job? No thanks.
This is bait.

>>61539659
>People like you are why developers need gui designers

not disagreeing with you but I feel the point needs to be made that in general user interface is a fucking nightmare to work with and ends up being a lot of tedious busywork especially given the prevalence of shitty toolkits, on top of that it's generally a bit removed from the rest of software development in that it's a bit of a speciality much like algorithm design or infrastructure considerations are a speciality over systems programming - a device driver programmer will be able to do back end web development in a pinch but they're not going to look at it in the same light that a backend, or even frontend dev will

to make matters even worse ux design is even far more removed from programming and takes a great deal from fields like psychology and social science, general user experience is going to vary based on cultural norms and background

there's always been a stark contrast between an engineers goals and considerations and those of a designer, I don't know why anybody expected differently when it came to programmers

>>61539911
>I'm sysadmin you fuckin dork.
I was talking as if it was to the other guy, our hypothetical welder. But I see how it might have come off as directed to you.

>But there are people who I work for and they don't get linux. And you obviously don't get those people.
Listen, you are yet again arguing a fucking straw man.

I never said anything remotely sounding like "everyone should use Linux". This is completely imaginative and something you pulled out from your behind.

What I did say, however, is this: Some dude comes here, to a forum dedicated for discussing a specific (or niche, if you will) field, and then complains about how this is completely unnecessary for "normal" people. I respond to this and telling him that he is completely missing the point, and that no one in this forum community gives a flying fuck about "normies".

You seem to be equally unable to understand this, this is /g/, the reason we discuss and use Linux is because we need and use it for our work, studies or hobbies or whatever. The fact that normal people don't need it is not a fucking argument for why we shouldn't be discussing it and even promoting it on this board. That's a classic case of argument from authority, even though it is fucking retarded because most people within this community are actually working on computer-related stuff.

And who's stupid enough to not dual boot?