>"The laws of mathematics are very commendable, but the only law that applies in Australia is the law of Australia"
>The statement came during an exchange with a technology journalist at a Sydney press conference on Friday, after Turnbull had laid out government plans that seek to give police agencies access to encrypted messaging platforms like WhatsApp (owned by Facebook) and iMessage through a warrant.
https://www.buzzfeed.com/markdistefano/turnbull-war-on-maths
>>61474663
asies started shitposting IRL?
>>61474703
*aussies
anglos and their orwellian dreams. in the meantime the elite jerks off on cp and fiddle little children
>>61474663
>/pol/ will defend this because muh nothing to hide
never use Facebook, or WhatsApp again. Real simple.
Damn, why is it always the conservatives who spout dumb, anti-scientific horseshit?
>>61474663
>buzzfeed
fuck off
>>61474663
>the only law that applies in Australia is the law of Australia
He should ban the laws of thermodynamics too.
>>61474770
What's so bad about BuzzFeed?
>>61474801
Clickbait galore, it's an entire website of nothing but clickbait articles like 10 things only 90s kids will remember.
>>61474762
>Conservatives spew anti science bullshit
>Liberals spew social science bullshit
I want to get off this wild ride.
>>61474822
fuck off, are you telling me Trumps golden shower was clickbait? kys liar
>>61474801
Its sole purpose is to harvest information about their users. Thus, articles such as "17 Things Only Asian Men Will Understand", "4 Signs That You Went to OSU" and so on.
>>61474822
>>61474870
So you guys are just jelly because they had the idea before you?
>>61474844
No, that was just defamation.
>>61474801
>What's so bad about BuzzFeed?
Everything
>>61474742
>strawman strawman xD epic win
(You)
>>61475128
>Board with the most normalfags won't defend this
They will
>>61474663
Nooooo! Now they will know I look at cuckhold porn now that my connection to blacked.com isn't over SSL!
most australians are idiots, so im not surprised the prime minister is.
Here you go boys
https://archive.fo/OXi99
>>61475610
Thanks, Norwegian anon.
>>61475807
sadly I'm not based norwegian bot
EXCLUSIVE OR BANNED IN AUSTRALIA
>>61474720
Assies*
>>61474742
What does /pol/ have to do with this?
Being against NN ≠being against encryption you fucking autists. You just want a reason to shout about muh /pol/ boogeyman.
>>61475920
No one is "against encryption", you retard. We're against uncontrolled military grade encryption.
>>61477178
what's the point in using deliberately weak encyption?
you might as well not be using encryption if your system is designed to be broken anyway
>>61477508
It's supposed to be broken only with a warrant.
>>61477508
>what's the point of having a door if it's designed to be broken by the police anyway
cuck
>>61477527
So you want police to have free reign of your data?
>>61477508
Because, unlike terrorists and child pedophiles would like you to think, we aren't against privacy, we're just against it getting in the way of justice.
>>61477553
The fourth amendment will still protect it against unwarranted searches.
>>61477527
the only way to enforce that is to disallow anyone except those who will respond to such a request from holding decryption keys, the strength of the encryption doesn't matter
>>61477540
breakable barries such as doors work like DRM, the act of breaking them may be made illegal, regardless of how weak the barrier is
like police tape, it might be illegal for you to cross it, despite being trivial to do so, it just helps form a definitive line that makes it clear to someone who seeks to cross it, that they are breaking the law
>>61477567
Literally KYS.
>>61474742
nope, we've been trashing on every aussie we see.
>>61477567
||
||>
||3
||
Gee, I wonder who could be behind this post.
>>61477178
You do understand that if it exists, it CAN AND WILL be used by black hats, right?
>>61474663
>he wants to stop the terrorists.
>they all use telegram and facebook
>bikies are switching to blackberries and getting their chink friends to install an app that fries the mobo on swipe.
>enough is enough
>>61474827
The train will never stop
>>61477178
>muh military grade
oh shit dude. when you said that i almost spit out my military grade water. they drink this stuff in the army so its gotta be controlled right?
>>61474827
JUST
>>61477178
>NOOOOOOOOOOOOO STOP USING ENCRYPTION THAT IS ACTUALLY EFFECTIVE
That's all I hear you saying. What would be the point of using encryption at all if it could be easily defeated?
>>61474822
>>61474870
>>61474955
Mark distefano is buzzfeed (Australia)'s only good writer
>>61479697
Why does he waste his life to ((them))
BAN MILITARY-GRADE ASSAULT ALGORITHMS
DO NOT LET YOUR CHILDREN GET NEAR PRIME NUMBERS, THEY ARE INTERNATIONAL TERRORIST PEDOPHILES
Emu War 2.0?
>>61479732
BAN CERTAIN COMBINATIONS OF ONES AND ZE- oh wait
The brits are pushing this mandatory backdoor bullshit too.
>>61474663
Malcom is a fucking dumbass
>>61479791
Reminder that Ajit Pai sued Netflix for using encryption.
Just a matter of time until same happens in the US.
>>61477606
>the only way to enforce that is to disallow anyone except those who will respond to such a request from holding decryption keys
Which totally won't be a problem.
I mean, who decides which countries get keys? Are the governments of Russia, Iran, China, etc any less entitled to these encryption keys once you decide these WORLDWIDE COMPANIES need to start making backdoors for you?
Yeah, I am totally sure Russia will only use the keys in order to stop illegal activity and not to decrypt tons of international traffic.
Every single country who talks about this shit is only thinking of their country. Even if they don't understand the danger of backdoors in security they don't even think about all the other fucking countries that will legitimately be able to demand the keys.
People always love to bring up the "terrorists" and "pedophiles" as being the justification, we can't fight them because they use encryption! But law enforcement is managing. Every day you hear about more pedophiles being arrested. For every successful terrorist attack in the west others are prevented. Some of them don't use encryption. Some of them don't even use electronic communication.
The biggest problem law enforcement has is manpower. That's all.
>Voting in conservative retards that don't understand how technolo/g/y works
SASUGA AUSFAILIA
>>61475856
that's a nazi symbol, anon
>>61479784
Yes, every digital problem ends in naked children pictures.
I'm just going to get cybernetic implants and encrypt my whole body. The point of it is for it not to be broken, you fucking retards. If the government can get into it easily, criminals can get into it easily, and there's no point in having it at all.
>>61474892
>jelly
He talks like this unironically
>>61479830
Cryptography is literally Hitler
>'straya
>>61479158
i do love that video.
>>61479887
must be weird being <18 nowadays
>>61479877
Deciphering cryptography is literally computers.
(and gay).
>>61475493
It's going to be amazing when all the limp wristed aussies finally get the immigration they've been praying for and blaming on the PM the country is instantly turned into a third world shithole.
>>61479916
did you just assume my true age to be my biological age????
>>61479946
no, actually, i wasn't talking about you, but in general
>did you just assume my post's intention?
Australian here AMA
Person in Australia but isn't Australian here, AMA
>>61477540
Doors aren't designed to be broken by the police. There's nothing stopping you from installing a bank vault door on the front of your house. Most doors are ABLE to be broken down by the police. But it's the responsibility of the police to break them. Door manufacturers aren't required to provide the police with master keys for all their doors.
>>61479961
>>61480045
it did not
>>61479993
"hello there, matey. If you'd just like to step to the side for a moment, nothing to worry about, just standard procedure stuff."
>>61474762
They both spew anti science horseshit
>>61477178
>>>61475920
>No one is "against encryption", you retard. We're against uncontrolled military grade encryption.
>militar grade
He's back guys
>>61479946
>be teenager
>try to buy alcohol
"I identify as a 20-year-old".
>>61480145
Dumb animuposter.
>>61474827
(((science)))
>>61479887
>safe schools
Oh No
>>61474663
BRING
BACK
TONE
>>61474742
We hate the NSA, retard communist nigger.
The US, UK, Australia, Jesus. Anglos have a real tendency towards bootlicking.
>>61480522
>we hate the NSA
>we just hate "terrorists" more
Fuck off, you capitalist pig!
>>61474801
get out
>>61474663
Can't they just make personal encryption illegal?
>>61474742
>>61480595
Commie filth get out. 4chan is a national socialist website.
>>61474663
>pi is de jure 4
>>61474844
Yes, Richard Steele's dossier was unreliably sourced and mostly fabricated.
>>61479936
It's called cryptanalysis faggot
>>61474663
Isn't whatsapp end to end encrypted right now? How would they implement a backdoor, a special client that snoops on cleartext on demand?
>>61480779
>get out
Make me.
>>61477527
>supposed to be
>neoliberals
Are you really this trusting?
>>61477567
>terrorists
Define terrorists, and compare and contrast with bourgeois politics.
>>61480851
Enforcing the use of a particular group for Diffie-Hellman would do it. See weakdh.org
>>61480779
>on /g/nulag
>national socialist
I think you should reconsider your Boardchoice /pol/fag
>>61480962
>unironically using the word "bourgeois"
>>61482914
>implying that muh private property is any concern of the propertyless employee
>>>/pol/
>>61474663
So he's the guy from Life of Brian arguing he should have the right to have babies even though he physically can't?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFBOQzSk14c
>>61474762
they both do that
republicans and democrats are the sides to the same jew coin wake up shill
>>61480779
If your idea of national socialism is making frog memes and welcoming in redditors, I'll pass.
>>61482914
What's wrong with using the word? You probably live in a bourgeois "democracy", at least get into the habit of using the word while you're at it.
>>61474742
>something about a board I don't like with no reason to think the board says it
/pol/ is anti nsa, pro privacy.
>>61483908
>>Class analysis is degenerate REEEEEEEEEE
>>61477178
Topped kekked
Non "military-tier" encryption is trivially breakable even on home pcs. Try DES for example or RSA-EXPORT
What does military-tier even means anyway, none of this was developed by any military, only by the academia.
>>61477508
This
>>61477527
1: This is not possible, except if you allow only the govt to issue private keys or something (cancer)
2: Fuck off, I do not want the goverment to see what I see or say.
>>61477567
>child pedophiles
kekked
>we're just against it getting in the way of justice.
Being against privacy in any way = being against privacy.
That being said, there is nothing immoral that certain combinations of bits might contain.
>>61482914
This
It will make everyone think that you are trolling. Only cringy retards use that word. Honest and friendly suggestion.
>>61474742
Big government prying into people's private business is pretty socialist.
>>61484002
Then what word should one use that expresses that same idea? Or is ithe the idea that people have class interests off limits?
>>61484025
Get back to the irc you dumb fuck.
>>61474663
>buzzfeed
could you really not find a better source? how about using archive.is like someone who isnt fucking braindead?
>>61474742
and thats where youre wrong, retard.
>>61484002
>Only cringy retards use that word.
Have you read anything on political economy since the 19th century? If you don't want people to use the word, suggest a better one, or keep your mouth shut about it.
>>61484082 is a cringy retard
>>61475858
Aspies*
>>61484087
Sure convinced me.
>>61484124 is still a cringy retard.
>>61483357
But Democrats are neocons, anon.
>>61484015
lol
>>61484134
top tier argument
>>61484015
Literally wrong. It's fascist, not socialist. Hence the current administration loves it
>>61483992
>there is nothing immoral that certain combinations of bits might contain
>not even kiddie porn
>not even plans to blow up the Twin Towers
This is what encryptards actually believe.
>>61479826
>conservative
>kike
It's cute that you think this doesn't have bipartisan support. It's cuter that you vote thinking there's a difference between any of the kike puppets.
Banning encryption is the goal of every ZOG.
Just a friendly reminder!
For asymmetric encryption:
Use 3kb+ RSA keys or
3kb+ DSA keys or
ed25519 or some other EDDSA curve
For symmetric encryption:
Use AES256 (if you want compatibility), Chacha20 or a more modern algorithm (like the ones in the Caesar competition or keccak)
NEVER use an algorithm with 128 bit keys. These are trivial to break.
For hashes:
SHA2, SHA3 or BLAKE (not 2)
ALWAYS use a MAC when you encrypt your data.
>>61484124
>Centrism
>Holds no beliefs
what the fuck is this ancient shitpost
>>61484185
>not using Whirlpool for hashing
Confirmed for shit advice.
>>61484151
It's authoritarian which is neither inherently fascist nor socialist.
>>61483935
>natsoc
>pro-privacy
Lol.
>>61484207
Fascism is inherently authoritarian. It's practically in the definition
>>61484185
Reminder to use post-quantum asymmetric encryption like the McEliece cryptosystem because the gov't already has working quantum computers (just not big enough for breaking encryption just yet, but it's a matter of time).
>>61474762
Turnbull is hardly a conservative.
>>61484229
This.
Fuck all authority.
No gods, no kings!
>>61484195
Yeah, you're right, enlightened Sargon and pals have strong beliefs on some things. The rest of the time it's exactly in the image; "well both sides are bad, by the way have you heard of horseshoes?"
>>61484207
In Marx's time, Socialism was synonymous with Communism, which is a stateless society, by definition not authoritarian. But as Marx also said, "Communism is for us not a state of affairs which is to be established, an ideal to which reality [will] have to adjust itself. We call communism the real movement which abolishes the present state of things. The conditions of this movement result from the premises now in existence."
>>61484229
I didn't oppose that.
>>61474663
Someone want revenge against some math teacher.
>>61484161
Raping a kid harms someone - which is immoral, the existence of the video itself however is not immoral as it harms nobody - the act is.
And what constitutes as kiddie porn even? This anime is probably considered kiddie porn in the UK. Especially with the advancements in 3d, would realistic porn of a 3d-cnstructed child be considered CP? If so, I can't see how it is immoral or how the same logic does not apply to animemes.
What constitutes as a plan? There are many moves where famous places are bombed as part of the plot, are these plans?
Moreover militaries often also have plans of invasion, are these immoral?
What if these "plans" were made as part of a game or joke?
What is immoral is to actually execute these plans, not have them.
>>61484201
>not compatible with anything
>uses AES
why even?
>>61484231
Remember to use 1TB RSA keys for protection against PQ. https://eprint.iacr.org/2017/351.pdf
>>61484244
>muh never had communism
Niggar, if your perfect plans are too hard to implement, they are shit.
>>61484263
>https://eprint.iacr.org/2017/351.pdf
And about ECC?
>>61484244
>hiring security for protection against crazy people wearing black and throwing firecrackers is synonymous with said crazy people demanding people with opinions other than theirs be silenced in public universities
Really gets the 'ol noggin' joggin'.
>>61474663
>kills NBN Fiber-to-the-Home project so as not to compete with Rupert Murdoch's companies
>bans encryption
What will they think of next?
>>61484285
There is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supersingular_isogeny_key_exchange but I don't know much about it.
>>61484263
>encryptard unironically defending kiddie porn and terrorist plans
Are you actually a troll trying to make encryptards look bad?
Just checking, I want you to tell me you're serious so when I post the screencap of your posts in order to prove to people what are the real motives behind defending uncontrolled military-grade encryption, they can't claim your posts are false flags.
>>61477527
That is what retarded pro-warrent retards just don't fucking understand and never will because they have 2 digit IQs
YOU CAN NIT MAKE A SPECIAL EXCEPTION IN ENCRYPTING.
Either you put the door open for everybody or you put the door open for nobody. A special "key" for low enforcement will either fucking leak (with disastrous consequences) or will be distilled by looking at the fucking algorithm in the first place.
Either way even if they manage to solve the second issue the first one remains dangerous.
If it even leaks once everybody on the fucking planet can now break everywhere this key is used.
Why are anti encryption fags such brainlets?
>>61484274
The quote literally argues against what you're accusing me of doing. There's nothing hard about implementing Socialism, even central planning is almost a solved issue with linear programming as demonstrated by Cockshott.
However we refuse to call a state which has not done away with the functions of private property and wage labour as 'Socialist'.
>>61484294
>demanding people with opinions other than theirs be silenced in public universities
The comic was more of a joke, though it was illustrating the hypocrisy of the matter; having your view silenced is the same as having it drowned out in a public forum, which is why I believe 'safe spaces' are fine ideas, just as private meetings are. If you want to discuss your Nazi shit, go to a Nazi party meeting or something.
I don't really support the actions of modern American antifa, so it's likely we'd agree that their tactics to silence debate on university campuses are ineffective or counterproductive to their cause. Still nothing wrong with punching up a few Nazis, though.
>>61484331
>YOU CAN NIT [sic] MAKE A SPECIAL EXCEPTION IN ENCRYPTING.
But you can, anon.
It's called asymmetric backdoor.
Maybe you should study a subject before being so opinionated about it.
And by studying I mean actually reading books, and not opinion articles by ISIS and NAMBLA mouthpieces.
>>61484082
>since the 19th century
i think its a bit older than that m8
>>61484340
>This coming from King-Of-All "I'M RIGHT AND ANYBODY WHO DISAGREES IS AN ANTI-SCIENCE MORON"
That webcomic needs to burn in a fucking fire
>>61484124
>political economy
is something sociopaths would prefer to have forgotten.
>>61484185
>ALWAYS use a MAC when you encrypt your data.
unless you prefer NOT to prove anything.
>>61484243
Pic related
>>61484263
I skipped to the end.
>ECM would be even slower against a much larger modulus, simply because arithmetic is slower. However, the speedup from ECM to GEECM reduces the post-quantum security level of 2048-bit primes. Rather than engaging in a detailed analysis of this loss, we move up to 4096-bit primes, obviously putting GEECM far out of reach.
So, 16384-bit primes ought to just about do it?
>>61484349
That solves the technical problem, but not the problem that republics are inherently and incorrigibly corrupt.
>>61484244
someone doesnt understand liberalism
>>61484352
Yes, but the term being used in terms of serious class analysis in political economy was since the 19th century unless I'm mistaken, which I may well be.
>>61484322
>Are you actually a troll trying to make encryptards look bad?
I what stops me from making a false claim?
What stops someone else from claiming to be me and saying yes? This is an anonymous imageboard after all, identities do not belong in here.
These are my personal opinions, why should these opinions be the same that other cryptofags have?
>in order to prove to people what are the real motives
My only motive was said here >>61483992
>I do not want the government to see what I see or say.
This is my only motive, the thing about cp and terrorist plans are my sincere opinions but that does not mean that they are my motive nor that I am interested in them - I wasn't the one that brought them up even. I simply do not see anything immoral in them.
>behind defending uncontrolled military-grade encryption
As I asked before, can you define what you mean by that?
>>61484349
Asymmetric backdoor? I have never heard of such a term before.
Asymmetric encryption is not a backdoor.
>>61484372
>unless you prefer NOT to prove anything.
You can easily implement deniable encryption with a MAC, you would want to avoid signatures if you wanted not to prove anything.
Even OpenPGP adds a MAC to the encryption-only mode.
>So, 16384-bit primes ought to just about do it?
Actually this is the size that NIST suggest for PQ RSA, it is also a size that gpg refuses to support. (it was in a debian mailing list)
>>61484378
its been used in differing spellings of the same general concept since at least rousseau
>>61484340
fuck me XKCD is retarded on anything related to politics.
also, as for planned economics, see hayek and the events of the 20th century. your entire political paridigm is an abject failure and is the laughing stock of the western world.
>>61484322
Also, why did you ignore my questions?
>>61484405
He openly supported Hilary.
Good. Criminal libs can eat shit.
>>61484419
as expected of someone who cant see beyond their own narrow life experience, rarely do techies ever make good politics it seems.
>>61484402
>Even OpenPGP adds a MAC to the encryption-only mode.
Message **Authentication** Code? I am now fascinated.
>it is also a size that gpg refuses to support
Good lord. Searching.
>>61484405
>see hayek
Die in a house fire, neoliberal. In a sane world the Mont Pelerin Society would have been tried and executed as the terrorists they were.
>>61474663
> new law against encryption
> Firstly then, why all the rhetoric? Because, despite significant investment and a series of legislative changes, Australian law enforcement agencies are unable to access communications content, and increasingly, communications metadata in a timely manner.
> Australia's law enforcement agencies are "increasingly unable to find out what terrorists and drug traffickers and paedophile rings are up to because of the very high levels of encryption", Turnbull said. He said encryption leaves some communications "effectively dark to the reach of the law".
>>61484435
>as expected of someone who cant see beyond their own narrow life experience, rarely do techies ever make good politics it seems.
I wouldn't trust school-to-cubicle veal to make good decisions on anything, no. They do make better politics when they get older and more broadly experienced, and, critically, practiced.
>>61484439
rather than spew petty insults perhaps you could offer me a reasoned argument against his concept of the liberal way of planning, which is to say to allow all men to plan for themselves, thereby acknowledging and making room for the inevitable lack of omnicience in humans?
>>61484371
>>61484405
It's actually a modified version of che xkcd comic by Randall, which disagrees with his opinion. This should be obvious by the different style of comic. The original is in the pic related.
>>61484374
I understand it, I just disagree with it within the context of the capitalism which is supported by the State which guarantees you these 'liberties', itself denying individual freedom through wage labour. Read Oscar Wilde's "The Soul of Man Under Socialism", it's a short read. And before you retort, I've read Road to Serfdom and it's a giant strawman which no Socialist actually argues for.
>>61484405
Which events of the 20th century? Oh, you mean like the stupid five year plan which I'm not even defending? Give me a break, and look at Cockshott's criticism of the ECP and how irrelevant the framing in terms of markets is in upper Communist societies, something which Hayek and his critics both seem to miss.
>>61484419
Yeah, sometimes xkcd is good but his support for Hillary wasn't unexpected. He's a liberal STEMfriend, what can you expect? That said anyone who voted for Trump except out of left-Communist accelerationism isn't worth listening to.
>>61484374
Literally who.
If you're gonna post a liberal (not in the American sense of the word) author, post a relevant one for crying out loud!
>>61484402
>Asymmetric backdoor? I have never heard of such a term before.
Then how dare you be so opinionated about the subject?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Backdoor_(computing)#Asymmetric_backdoors
>>61484464
>rather than spew petty insults perhaps you could offer me a reasoned argument against his concept of the liberal way of planning
Why? You don't deserve a hearing because your goals are abhorrent and your argument is dishonest and emotional.
I'll just link some Mirowski, who explains why none of you deserve a hearing. http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2016/05/philip-mirowski-this-is-water-or-is-it-the-neoliberal-thought-collective.html
>>61484476
Hayek is a neoliberal market-extremist. That's why anon posted him in the first place.
>>61484518
He's also irrelevant.
>>61484476
post-Keynesianism or Marxian is all I'll accept m8
When did the government decide all communications must be within reach of the law?
Aren't crimes usually defined as actions?
>>61484439
>Message **Authentication** Code? I am now fascinated.
Yes, check https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc4880#section-5.13
>Good lord. Searching.
Will check my bookmarks and report in a second.
>>61484462
i think its honestly about humility and breadth of interest, whose who can see thier own limitations in their capacity to reason about such things tend not to be prone to espousing illiberal bullshit in my observation.
>>61484469
honestly its wrong from the very get go, free speech is not merely law, it is principle.
ill grab a copy of that after i get a copy of leviathan, which is to say when i have some money for it.
as for the strawman part, can you counter his arguments against planned economy?
i will add that to my list too then, though if this is the case then can you point me to a single instance of valid socialism being practiced?
>>61484476
>hayek
>not relevant
did you forget that thatcher and raegan existed?
>>61484508
>You don't deserve a hearing because your goals are abhorrent and your argument is dishonest and emotional.
natural rights are abhorrent, dishonest and emotional? off to the gulag with me then i guess.
i will take a look though, at the very least itll be a laugh.
>>61479877
Isn't Enigma Polish designed?
This is a great step, i can't wait to hear about how the government should be immune to having all it's communications public (and thereby reachable to the law)
>>61484492
>a term used only by the wikipedia
>Then how dare you be so opinionated about the subject???
Any sane person would assume that you(?) were talking about backdoors in an asymmetric encryption algorithm like the RSA. That being said, there are many questions concerning the parameters of the NIST curves.
>>61484523
>He's also irrelevant
>yet his thought collective's ideals and pseudo-intellectual legacy largely run this rock rn
Know thy enemy.
>>61484548
>reason about such things
Humanity has better things to do than become serfs to the fetishization of muh reason, and would best be compelled to do so for no more than socially necessary labor time. Also, Cockshott.
>>61484402
>Asymmetric backdoor
Yes, read up on the DUAL_EC_DRBG fiasco.
>>61484638
>Yes, read up on the DUAL_EC_DRBG fiasco.
I am aware about it.
>>61484548
You sound chill even if we disagree, I don't have time to go into a debate about planned economy and ECP, other than to note that the free market system is a violation of individual liberty for the majority of people, but if you're interested then you might be interested in this: http://ricardo.ecn.wfu.edu/~cottrell/socialism_book/calculation_debate.pdf and "A Brief History of Neoliberalism" which I think is by David Harvey.
By the way you can read Wilde's really tiny book online: https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/wilde-oscar/soul-man/
In short it describes the crushing of individualism by the requirement to sell one's indvidual ambitions for wage, which burdens the majority of people, keeping only those critics, artists and nowadays a few scientists out of it.
As for natural rights, they don't have much basis unless you're going to subscribe to the idea of natural rights in the first place. It's funny how many "natural rights" also include the rather unnarutal right to property (not just right of possessor).
As for the comic, the point it's getting at is outside of the law and notes that discourse is just as much controlled by the government with law as it is by corporations and the mass media.
As for Socialism being practiced, you could probably look at Revolutionary Catalonia or the Paris Commune, though I'd be hesitant to back either up. I tend to be more leftcom myself. However if you don't mind a Marxist-Leninist undergrad, you might benefit by watching this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIddCEBCKHQ
>>61484638
this
>>61484439
Here
https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=739424
https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=800560
>>61484638
>Humanity has better things to do than become serfs to the fetishization of muh reason
who are you to determine what someone else has to do?
>and would best be compelled to do so for no more than socially necessary labor time
by what right does anyone compell anyone to labour?
>Also, Cockshott.
in time ill get there.
>>61484646
ill note down those first two, as for the latter though, i much prefer having a book in my hand and no godawful LCD light burning out my eyes when i sit down to do proper reading.
>In short it describes the crushing of individualism by the requirement to sell one's indvidual ambitions for wage, which burdens the majority of people, keeping only those critics, artists and nowadays a few scientists out of it.
well thats the old "no liberty from circumstance" argument there, sometimes circumstance compells you to do shit you would rather not, its not that anyone likes it as much as it is no liberal can see a way to avoid it without violating liberal principle as far as i know.
by right to, do you mean that there are natural rights theorists within liberalism that believe someone is entitled to property by virtue of nature? because while i havent read much hobbes yet my understanding of lockeian natural rights is that by virtue of human nature man must have the right to take property from that which is held in common between man in order to facilitate survival and ideally enables him to thrive.
i dont disagree, what really bothers me is the tendency of some to boil down freedom of speech to mere law though, as if it were not all about the free market of ideas.
ill add these to the list of things to look at.
>>61477527
I'm sure hackers won't break said encryption. I mean, they don't have a warrant, and that would be illegal. Just like murder or robery, right ?
>>61484721
>by what right does anyone compell anyone to labour?
that's precisely the anti-capitalist argument
>sometimes circumstance compells you to do shit you would rather not
the existence of that circumstance is what communists aim to abolish, as they believe it is avoidable. Better to have it crushed less than more.
> in order to facilitate survival and ideally enables him to thrive
it facilitates his own survival at the detriment of the survival of others, in which case such a rights system isn't very "right" at all, forget equality and justice if one approaches from that angle. Not to burden you with more reading, but Proudhon has written a rather short book on the right to property in which he dismisses various natural rights claims, in "What is Property?". Also the theory of "primitive accumulation" which describes a left perspective on how property was originally acquired, and is the basis for reforms within capitalism such as Georgism (famously supported by Tolstoy and Einstein) which seek to return to common property land which is unused via a high tax on it. In short, the right of possessor and right of property are very different, and I don't think anyone disagrees with the right of possessor
The free market of ideas doesn't exist in a world in which many people are unable to put out their ideas, so I think it's false to act under the presumption that it does exist, and to correct for it accordingly
>>61484818
where exists the compulsion in capitalism?
>the existence of that circumstance is what communists aim to abolish
>the existence of circumstance is what communists aim to abolish
i sure fucking hope not
>Proudhon
added
am i to take it that i will find a backing for your claim "it facilitates his own survival at the detriment of the survival of others, in which case such a rights system isn't very "right" at all, forget equality and justice if one approaches from that angle." there?
> In short, the right of possessor and right of property are very different, and I don't think anyone disagrees with the right of possessor
can you give me a brief general summary of the distinction?
>The free market of ideas doesn't exist in a world in which many people are unable to put out their ideas
such as?
> so I think it's false to act under the presumption that it does exist, and to correct for it accordingly
im not against a forcing of a free market of ideas by way of forum legislation, if that is what youre talking about
>>61484656
That's unfortunate he can't see that plenty of PGP use cases don't even involve the WoT. We choked one more bit out of him, though.
>>61484904
GPG used to support that until very recently, he just decided one to say say "fuck them" and disable their generation.
>>61477178
>encryption is a military technology xd
t. Titus Aurelius of Mediolanum
>>61484302
I got a 70mbps FTTN connection, this is still better than anything foxtel offers.
>>61484896
>i sure fucking hope not
I meant the circumstance of most people being forced by the economic system to engage in wage labour, sort of how the feudal serf might want to abolish the circumstance of needing to tend and hand over the product of his lord's land.
>backing for your claim
he doesn't say that directly, but there's something along those lines in there, the idea is that there clearly isn't sufficient property for everyone to ensure his survival, thus only the heirs of those original people, who may have obtained their title through trickery or sheer barbarism, have access to property; the solution is not to make everything common property, but instead to abandon the concopt entirely; he uses examples from the French constitution of the time which enshrines property and shows how it is incompatible with the other rights
>can you give me a brief general summary of the distinction?
private property is classified by two general ideas, though the first is not sufficient to make private property, and generally the ideas are taken to mean different things by some: firstly private property is property which is held in absentee ownership, and secondly private property is property which is used to extract surplus value i.e via wage labour. It's probably better to call it a social relation than a type of property, and the communists wish to abolish that social relation, not via force, but to make it so unnecessary that it would not be performed.
personal property is your toothbrush, computer (so long as you're not employing others to work on it for profit which goes to you), books, house etc.
>im not against a forcing of a free market of ideas by way of forum legislation
I think it would be an exercise in futility desu, because in this economic system, whoever has the most money usually has the loudest voice, enough so to drown out the other voices, which is one argument against the supposition of an informed populace which ancaps tend to make.
>>61485095
>sort of how the feudal serf might want to abolish the circumstance of needing to tend and hand over the product of his lord's land.
im pretty sure its the legal obligation to tend to his lords fields and the right of his lord to enforce it with violence they would have wanted to abolish, not circumstance in general
>the solution is not to make everything common property, but instead to abandon the concopt entirely
then how do you eat? how do i eat what is not mine to take? if i would have food for my personal ownership from the land, how do i cultivate land i do not own? by what right do i kill animals that are not mine to?
>and secondly private property is property which is used to extract surplus value i.e via wage labour.
explain this, why is this definition required and what does it add to the concept of private property?
>I think it would be an exercise in futility desu, because in this economic system, whoever has the most money usually has the loudest voice, enough so to drown out the other voices, which is one argument against the supposition of an informed populace which ancaps tend to make.
while i do not think there is any solution to the problem of an uninformed populace (this is the entire reason for the liberal tradition of responsibility to educate oneself), this general problem of wealth influencing government is why the lockeian tradition of liberalism appeals to me so. money is a form of soft power, so if it is to be controlled it must be opposed by some equally potant power. in lockeian thought this is military power from an armed populace, there to ensure no amount of money in politics allows the government to engage in economically motivated oppression of them without significant risk to their own existance and the lives of those who engage in it.
>like father, like son
Fucking anglo scum.
>>61485236
is there a single nation in the world that can compete with the glorious anglo liberal tradition?
Anna: E3A9AF
>>61485236
>ancap
>when your local warlord nukes japan because he did not like the last season of love live but you are too poor to buy recreational nukes from the kindergarten prostitutes so you buy a shitty Chinese missile ripoff instead to get revenge for your favourite anime but the warlord shuts it down with his air defence drones.
Here's looking forward to all the Aussies getting v& for posting on the infamous terrorist website known as '4chan'
>>61485250
yes, the Marxist tradition
>>61485316
let me know when it produces anything but failure and superficial materialistic analysis of history.
>>61480779
>bigot without even the consolation of being an interesting person
2sad4u
>>61474762
>>61474742
Anti-/pol/ bait is the best bait in the world. The only thing better is posting BBC porn directly in /pol/.
>>61485197
>what does it add to the concept of private property
>>61485334
Let me know when you liberals are actually willing to lose on a level playing field rather than resorting to fascism to protect yourselves.
>>61480779
>national socialist website
Fucking lmao, tards can only claim a website as "national socialist" because they're too afraid to tell even their moms that they hate niggers let alone do something "national socialist" in real life.
>>61485365
>>what does it add to the concept of private property
dank meme reply senpai
>Let me know when you liberals are actually willing to lose on a level playing field rather than resorting to fascism to protect yourselves.
good joke
>>61485197
>>61485365
I was going to answer that...
The surplus value component helps to distinguish private property from personal property, say, from the radio left unattended while travelling.
>>61485370
They're half right, jej.
>>61484002
How many times a day do you say "redpilled"?
>>61485393
About 0 on average.
If I ever use it it's in an ironic fashion.
>>61485334
>superficial
forty thousand keks
>failure
on the contrary, the Marxist tradition has suceeded in inspiring hundreds of philosophers and political economists to this day; it is rather the liberal tradition whose failure is so visible almost everywhere in the modern world; the only good it did was inspire the left libertarian tradition despite their foolish, unsubstantiated and frankly spooky idea of rights.
>>61485389
so in other words, a man may not legitimately offer another man part of the produce of the animals he cares for in exchange for assistance in slaughtering them?
>>61480522
No, nu-/pol/ loves the NSA since Trump said they're good guys
>>61485387
May I suggest, then, that you stop calling it competition, and start calling it genocide.
>>61485393
>How many times a day do you say "redpilled"?
>>61485415
>forty thousand keks
if material understanding is all that matters, then nobody has ever acted on principle or ideas in general in the entire of human history.
>on the contrary, the Marxist tradition has suceeded in inspiring hundreds of philosophers and political economists to this day;
as does the liberal tradition, however it seems the american influence seems to cause a great many more to focus purely on the economic aspects of liberalism, which im not entirely happy about.
>it is rather the liberal tradition whose failure is so visible almost everywhere in the modern world
what, with all this wealth and complete global domination?
>>61485449
might i suggest you justify calling competition genocide?
>>61479710
Why do you write ((lisp))
>>61485463
>might i suggest you justify calling competition genocide?
Practically speaking, isn't the only liberal answer to socialism to destroy the nations that attempt it?
>intentional action to destroy a people (usually defined as an ethnic, national, racial, or religious group) in whole or in part
>>61485463
>what, with all this wealth and complete global domination?
It's succeeded for itself and its handmaidens at our expense, which is reason enough to destroy them both.
>>61485449
>>>61485393
>>How many times a day do you say "redpilled"?
Did you forget to write a reply to my post or something?
>>61485407
>If I ever use it it's in an ironic fashion.
lmao people say kekistan "ironically" too.
>>61474822
They actually have a very good investigative journalism team.
>>61480779
>get out
You can't make me.
>>61485350
>I get off on being an annoying faggot
thank fuck you don't go outside
>>61485496
>isn't the only liberal answer to socialism to destroy the nations that attempt it?
if you cant compete, you cant compete, therefore you are inferoir by virtue of the requirements of a nation state. there are and never will be (at least for long) moral actors on the global stage, all nations who do not have similar interests are ultimately out to destroy each other. this is not the same as genocide though, genocide requires the deliberate destruction of a people, not merely their state.
>>61485421
of course he may. The problem comes in when the man has employed the other person as wage labour, and profit from the products makes its way to the man who owns the animals; the wage which is given is less than the labour value of the products which have been made; the profit collected is
heading 6.5 on this http://ricardo.ecn.wfu.edu/~cottrell/ecn265/value.pdf if the concept is unfamiliar
>>61485463
>purely on the economic aspects of liberalism
ironically the only ones which are illiberal
>what, with all this wealth and complete global domination?
wealth for whom, exactly? :^)
produced by whom, exactly? :^)
look, nobody is denying capitalism is a fantastic system of raising standards of living; the argument is whether such a model is the best possible for people, and from what I've seen, it's not.
really though, if you cerish freedom, really look into left-libertarian thought, ancom (Kropotkin) or communalist (Bookchin); the economic freedom in capitalism is a restricted freedom in which people have a lot of potential but most people cannot take advantage of that potential, for the most part rendering the potential given moot, the freedom impotent and ineffectual. We must not only look at the opportunities people can take, but how those affect society and if they can be used at all; Socialism is on the side of individual and collective freedom, liberal capitalism only on the side of the guise of individual freedom, behind which lurks poverty, death and destitution
book rec: The Ragged Trousered Philanthropists
>>61485542
> by virtue of the requirements of a nation state
that's why states have gotta go senpai
>>61485539
Stay salty /pol/tard
Sad to see threads on /g/ turned into political debates.
>>61485579
Better than general threads.
>>61485579
Typical assie response
>>61485542
>ultimately out to destroy each other. this is not the same as genocide though, genocide requires the deliberate destruction of a people, not merely their state.
>if you cant compete, you cant compete
SUPERIOR ANGLO MORALITY
So what's to stop me from forking a cryptosystem and distributing it via sneakernet?
>>61485743
Nothing.
However, the initial distribution of this would be done on backdoored crypto. This isn't much of a problem unless:
1. They already know what you're doing and MITM all your exchanges to add backdoors to your program (this is actually a problem solvable by deterministic compilation, and FOSS)
2. They call the police down on your ass for threatening Himmler's state police.
>>61485743
>forking a cryptosystem
>>61480515
>>61485500
holy shit this is top cringe
>>61485743
The law.
Aka, nothing.
>>61485825
>>61474663
>buzzfeed
literally kill yourself
>tfw mathematics is the one who knocks
>>61474663
Quoting buzzfeed
Fuck off you faggot
>>61474663
Quayle-tier.
>>61474663
>buzzfeed
Fuck you. At least post an archive link instead.
The thing is the law states that they need to provide the government encryption keys.
The Australian government uses the same technology for their own encryption.
Only morons use main stream mediums to conduct illegal activities so the only people they stand to catch are social retards and twelve year olds.
Most terrorist organisations use a media outlet to broadcast their propaganda.
Once again us Aussies drop our trousers.
>>61486186
Many people are shilling WhatsApp and iMessage as secure and private. People instead should learn that they should not trust non-free crapware.
>>61486173
>Fuck you. At least post an archive link instead.
Here you go https://web.archive.org/web/20170714045546/https://www.buzzfeed.com/markdistefano/turnbull-war-on-maths
Not so hard, was it?
>>61484185
can you teach me this trivial way to break 128bit encryotion? A link will do.
>>61485553
sorry, had to grab a couple more hours sleep before work starts
so basically, profit is immoral, and wages must be paid at the same value as the product of the labour? if so, how do we quantify what his appropriate share is? the owner must have spent a great deal of time raising his animals, he may even have assisted in their birth. how do we quantify his share?
>ironically the only ones which are illiberal
in some cases i will agree, especially those who seem to think corporations are wonderful and should be everyones friend.
>wealth for whom, exactly?
now that is a good question. its clear that corporatism is an absolute bastardisation of capitalism, and that if allowed to run roughshod over the market and indeed the government stagnation will be guarenteed. i would not be against some kind of legislation for the purposes of eliminating corporations, or at least minimising their power over the state, this way they cannot legislate their way out of competing in an open market.
>produced by whom, exactly?
people like me, supplying the world with very nice cakes, for fuck all pay because the shitty agency has me on a 0 hour contract and gives me an average of 2 days work a week, which may or may not align up with the pay week. on the plus side i can also purchase them at fuck all from the local shop, so a lifetime of diabetes is mine for the taking should i want it.
>and from what I've seen, it's not.
and what have you seen? because ive seen a whole lot of failure in terms of nation states attempting to impliment communism (yeah, i know its state socialism, but thats still a necesarry stage on the path to communism).
>collective freedom
i take issue with this strongly, i cannot abide collectivist reasoning in any form other than that which is in effect unavoidable (such as nation states), and only when it is aware of its own illiberal nature.
>The Ragged Trousered Philanthropists
its a fucking good job books are cheap these days
thanks, capitalism
>>61485553
>that's why states have gotta go senpai
yeah, good fucking luck with that. how precisely do you plan on defending your communist utopia from the group of people that just got together and formed an army to take a section of land for themselves?
>>61485579
this is a political thread m8. protip, theres no escape from politics, because wherever you are, however much you try to keep to yourself, politics has an interest in you.
>>61485630
leviathan senpai, we must form a great collective for the purposes of domination
i jest of corse, no amount of liberal values can save you from the realities of power, and when it comes to nation states weakness is provocation, and inability to compete combined with opposing values means certain destruction.
>>61474762
He isn't conservative. Just last week he drew a lot of criticism for claiming the Liberal party is the center party and Tony Abbot was trying to turn it conservative.