*breathes in* *Leans back* *inhales* BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

>introductory
so what will they use? scratch?

>>61460559
do we have an indian crying wojack faces?

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>>61460559
With what?
python?

>>61460663
Dijkstra taught Haskell as introduction to programming. Maybe they are going to teach Scala?

Java is actually a pretty good introductory language. Replacing it with some scripting dynamically-typed language like Python is a terrible decision that will create meme programmers.

>>61460559
Why?

And don't tell me it's because java is shit. Are they being charged more to use it.

>>61460586
Unironically yes

They replaced it with JS

>>61460694
>Java is actually a pretty good introductory language.
hows that degree mill working out for you faggot?

turns out they are going to replace the introductory classes language with javascript, just to avoid having to tell students to type in "public static void"
kek, talk about a shot in the foot, even if use jslint or something to "enforce" code correctiveness (or will the teachers be spammed with "this doesnt work" about simple syntax errors and mistypes) it will still be a lot more work for the teachers to accomplish the same outcome. probably even worse, vb would have been better

>>61460559
>inhales twice

>In its latest update to the Programming Methodology course code CS 106J, the University replaced the difficult to master Java language that was present in CS 106A, with the more palatable language JavaScript. Even though to the layman the difference might seem arbitrary just from the namesake; but in reality, this makes programming easier to understand mainly due to the latter having less 'bloat' to contend with.
>difficult to master Java language...

Should be C.

>>61460850
I can confirm. I went to the Stanford campus to check it out last week and found a classroom with CS 10X level assignments in one of the rooms using JavaScript. Now that I think about it I should have taken a copy for /g/, even though it was all easy shit.

>>61460887
This C is perfect for so many reasons
Syntax influences other langs
Ties in with an OS course and computer architecture course and a graphics course (open gl) among many other uses

>>61460559
C should be the language to go in this case.

>ancient
>memory leaks
>gcc
>hugly but not that hugly

You have to learn how to program, not how to be a fag, Java has a fancy ecosystem build around it that makes you lacy. With C you will see the true nature of coding and how painfull it is if it goes wrong.

>>61460887
>>61461070

I took the Harvard CS 101 EdX course a few years ago and it was indeed in C, with scratch as well for the brainlets. Really good class, too bad they took it down.

>>61461070
>Coding in C
>Any year
I can't wait until major systems are rewritten in Rust and I will never have to worry about some Rajesh coding some poorly tested payment processor and having all my personal information leaked.

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>>61461186
>I can't wait until major systems are rewritten in Rust
not in a million years pajeet

>>61460559
>*breathes in*
>*Leans back*
>*inhales*
Can we stop with this cringe-inducing trend, it's worthless and only makes you looks like a fool.

>>61460559
>This move is aimed at completely transition to JavaScript for the CS 106 program because of the fact that according to Roberts, it has become the 'language of the internet'.

>>61461186
C should be taught in a way that people are made aware of the risks. For a complete noob to programming, Python would probably be best since you can set up and run on any platform extremely quickly, and basic programs are easy to write. Once you have a basic understanding of programming, they should move on to C to see what's going on "under the hood" (pointers, data structures, compiling, linking) and experience the nasty bits like buffer overflows, stack overflows, memory leaks, and like other nasty bits in an academic environment rather than in a working product/service.

Of course, this assumes the institution can produce competent programmers.

>>61461186
People like you should just concentrate on developing a formal specification, so industry might take you seriously for once.

>>61461418
>Of course, this assumes the institution can produce competent programmers.
And sadly, this is not the case. Once you teach them OOP, they instantly turn into a low-effort machines and copy-past whatever they find on the internet and just don't give any shit anymore, even for high performance programs.

>>61460850
>Ditching Java
Oh ok, maybe now they'll start with something like Scala or C or maybe even..
>Fucking JavaScript

>>61460737
Java and Javascript are the same thing anyways

@61461645
this b8 WILL get replies

>>61461645

Substantiate your argument. I'm bored and could use a laugh.

>>61461678
Fuck off tripfag

>>61461645
i cant tell if newfag or bad b8
be quiet, summer

Do you seriously believe the Java pajeet meme?
White people do use Java you know, check out the authors of any android app you use, dickhead

>>61461694

How about you fuck off, or else explain why you think Java and JavaScript have anything in common, other than the first four letters of their names?

In Brazil you have C in introductory classes, second semester is C and assembly. Why are american CS classes such a joke?

>>61461809
This is introductory shit that spreadsheet fucking desk jockeys will take as a requirement for their major. Higher level CS courses weed out the "i wanna make vidya gaems xd" types quite easily.

>>61461809
>mexican shitstain calling americans a joke
try entering the country paco then we can joke

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>>61461678
Checkmate

>>61461846
Dude, Brasil. Go back to >>>/pol/

>>61461846
>American education

>>61461891
>implying brazil \= mexico
you're joking right?

>>61461410
Good
Ivy league teaching level
JavaScript
Language of internet
I bet they don't even mention what assembly is
> At least it's a kinda of code camp course? Or a full blow cs major?

Even in the shit fest of brbrbr I had 2 years c++ and assembly, Motorola and 8086x plus full data analysis.

How the hell you study binary trees and basic things like cache, threading and all sort of shit with js? It's even more cancerous on server than php

My school started with C and complimented it by teaching us about hardware. Made the concepts of memory and pointers stick better.

>>61461846
You probably think Brasilia is a kind of taco dip, right?

>>61461943
lmao
it's a waxing technique for sombreros

>>61461943
Brbrbr and Latin America is like oil and water we are very different culturally.
It's okay burger education is so shitty you can't even pinpoint USA on a world map

>>61461838
Here stuff is like radioactive decay. In the second year 1/2 isn't here anymore, in the third only 1/4 dream of actually finishing, and in the fourth year, the 1/8 of highlanders get to work for obscenely low wages.

>>61460887
At my university, in my CE undergrad we learned assembly -> C -> C++ -> Java, and then other electives might use Python, Haskell, etc.
It's so sad to think of people starting with Javascript...

Why would Indians care if students don't learn Java? Surely that would mean more jobs for them?

>>61461984
you're just niggardly pork and cheese instead of niggardly spank yards

either way you speak retarded languages, are overrun with crime, and have lives centered around finding toothless women to put yout nut butter into while they cook beans for your 11 children

>>61461775
Android is literally Pajeet: The Operating System. Java is one of the main reasons why Android is so bad.

Will they teach a mature modern language like python?

>>61462044
I had a 6 months course at uni of Pascal.
It's not awesome but at least it have all basics of a decent language.

Ja isn't even a language just throw some shit on html and it might work.
All this plus fucking endlessly browser compatibility

>>61462017
As if the south doesn't exist in the states...

>>61461803
tripnigger

>>61461875

So you would trust some dumb HR monkey who wrote a job description somewhere over, say, a heavily moderated Wikipedia article?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java_(programming_language)
>Not to be confused with JavaScript

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JavaScript
>Not to be confused with Java (programming language), Java (software platform), or Javanese script.

Or really, just try putting some Java code into a JavaScript interpreter and see what happens. Or some JavaScript code into a Java compiler.

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Got bored. This is what happens when you try and tell javac to parse a .js file, and what happens when you try to tell nodejs to parse a .java file. They don't like each other.

>>61462010
This generation is fucked.

>>61462254
it's past your bedtime, gramps

>>61462213
JavaScript interpreters are so diverse and shit they might even half parse the shit and complete with deductions.
I remember old ie implementation doing finky things with broken html or js.

I mean there are some standards but not every interpreter honor it or do random shit. It's better now really, but still shit.

>>61462251
You've got a special kind of autism tripanon. Taking this b8 too far.

>nodejs
Did you really alias node? For what purpose?

>>61462262
Write a fucken compiler you CIA nigger.

>>61462299

>Did you really alias node?
More like I have two programs installed:
/usr/bin/nodejs
/usr/local/bin/node

One's a legacy version of the other. Can't remember which, but package management is fucked.

Anyways, I have nothing better to do right now.

>>61462358
Install nvm. You're welcome.

>>61461875
I love how to just include agile into being a java(script) developer too.

>>61461186
Lets see your Redox OS desktop, then. But oh wait, it's shit and literally so unusable that even Rust shills don't use it, despite claiming to be superior to Linux (written in C).

>>61462396

Gonna be honest, I don't use JavaScript enough to give a shit.

>>61460559
kill yourself shitposting faggot

>>61460559
>POOS
Since when do the poos study at Stanford? If anything this sounds like capitulation to the indian forces. Java is lost, so better grab some of the scraps.

>>61460850
They've got to adjust the difficulty level to the hordes of diversity students now.

>>61460559
This is going from Bad to Worse.
Instead of using a real language or even a practical one they use JavaScript.
JS should not be used as a teaching language anywhere, certainly not at an ivy-league college.

They should be on the bleeding edge and use Haskell or Lisp instead to show everyone how its done. If they do it, many others might change too, they do not lack "pull".

>>61460700
Its literally because java is shit.
The students could not cope with the shit and saw every student doing another language because none of them liked it. Only rajesh did. but rajesh cant recover now lmao

>JavaScript
>/pol/tards keep whining about how universities cost gorillions of dollars but don't teach anything useful in industry
BTFO

>>61460586
>https://web.stanford.edu/class/cs193p/cgi-bin/drupal/

>>61463584
>Instead of using a real language or even a practical one they use JavaScript

JS is both a real language and a practical one. A JS interpreter is available for literally every computing device in the universe more powerful then an Anduino. There are multiple open source JS implementations. What more could you want for teaching?

And remember, this is for teaching how to program, not teaching marketable skills. The difference? A Programmer will be able to learn any language in a week or 2 vs the programmer will only be able to work in that one language he learned.

>>61460681
DICKstra was a faggot

>>61461645
>Java and Javascript are the same thing anyways
They share the first 4 letters of their name and their syntax is descended from C. That's literally it.

The only way to teach someone properly is:
>pseudoassembly language to make the students get the basic principles of how a computer works (without introducing any platform specific stuff)
>C, to teach basic imperative programming and also memory-related matters
>modern C++ for introduction to OOP, templates etc, and also to make the students understand that automatic memory management is possible without a garbage collector
>a modern OOP language (C#, or possibly Java)
>a meme piece of shit scripting language (most likely Python)
>a pure functional language (most likely Haskell)
>SQL, an actual assembly language and webshit languages (Javascript, HTML, CSS) somewhere along the way

This way you get the full picture, a thorough understanding, and you do it in the proper ascending order of abstraction from the hardware layer.
That's what my university did in my CS course, and it was worth it.
And this order makes retards fail quickly, so here's another upside.

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>>61460850
>Java
>difficult to master
i learned that shit in like 2 months when i was 14 editing RS private servers, and i'm retarded. JS is even more confusing with all that dynamically typed, "0" == null, global-scoping-because-you-forgot-"var" bullshit.
just learn C first like the rest of the world.

>>61464304
u wot m8

$ js
> '0' == null
false

also, consider the following: ===

>>61460681
>Scala
It's worse than Java

>>61460887
I like Java, its the comfiest language. But I wouldn't trade having my 101 class in C for anything. I believe it was a very valuable experience. Plus, it helped me with OS, Systems programming, and computer architecture later on down the road. Not teaching C just fucks students over later. Maybe it's for the best though cause ee need less JS script fags scraping out a CS degree and calling themselves developers anyway. Stallvolution will eliminate them from the equation.

>>61461186
>rust
>baby language for developers who need bouncy walls because they might hurt themselves.
fuck off ranjeet.

>>61464396
>===
Nothing quite like learning your code is failing because the compiler decided to transform what you thought was a string into an integer and now your literal comparison is failing.

Also doesn't make it easy considering the language is asynchronous and you need to rely on callbacks. Maybe it was harder than average for me to learn because I got used to synchronous programming though.

>>61464511
Nah, Java is going to fade away eventually. It'll be slow since it became an enterprise standard but Javascipt is poised to replace it because of tools like Electron and NodeJS allow you to create cross-platform applications with relative easy.

>>61462251
>unexpected token class
>ironically js now supports classes

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>>61463839
JS is what you use when nothing else is available. Its only ever the least-worst solution.
>pic related

>And remember, this is for teaching how to program, not teaching marketable skills. The difference? A Programmer will be able to learn any language in a week or 2 vs the programmer will only be able to work in that one language he learned.
Exactly why JS is a dumb idea.
Let them learn scheme if they want something pure but not marketable. Haskell if they want both. But JS teaches tons of horrible practices that they will have to unlearn afterwards.

>>61464575
>learning your code is failing because the compiler
kek. You were trying to pull JSON from a PHP script, weren't you?
>Also doesn't make it easy considering the language is asynchronous and you need to rely on callbacks.
We got promises now. They're still callbacks, but they're much easier to work with and error handling doesn't suck so badly anymore.
Also, async/await.

>>61464923
kek, if dated

My gf switched her major to comp sci so she just took her intro to programming class
When I took mine 2 years ago, I did Java. She did Python. Yet she still has to learn Java, they only use Python for the intro class.

>>61460787
this

>Work in sales at a major publisher

The vast majority of universities (at least in Canada) are using Liang's Java books. I've seen a few of the smaller schools using C++ or Python but literally every large institution is still on Java and probably always will be.

Also related, I'd say of every prof I deal with, 75% are brown, 20% are asian, and 5% are white. That's probably reflective in the material being used

>>61460559

>replaced with JavaScript

So now computer science majors won't even know how to make a program at all.

>>61460559
Javascript as a syntax is elegant, but as a runtime is more faggot than OP

>>61465524
Javascript's runtime isn't bad. The shitty parts are imo all due to W3C. It seems that programming on NeXT ruins one's taste for concise, simple APIs.

>>61464575
>Also doesn't make it easy considering the language is asynchronous and you need to rely on callbacks. Maybe it was harder than average for me to learn because I got used to synchronous programming though.

What the hell are you talking about? Javascript is synchronous if you want it to be.

>>61462119
>All this plus fucking endlessly browser compatibility

Javascript is one of the most portable languages. The compatibility issues are very minor.

>>61462119
>muh father's javascript reeeeeeeeEEEEEEEE
That was then. This is now. Developers got tired enough of Microsoft's shit and made them the odd one out, until they finally got it almost semi-together with IE9.

>/g/ thinking it matters
CS teaches CS. Not programming.

>>61465461
Yes, this.
Top school in canada here, we learn Java and C at the same time as part of the first year of undergrad. Python is sorta covered but we only learn it for an hour or two total. There are optional courses for C++ and functional languages (Haskell, F#, etc)

It kinda sucks because of how disgustingly ugly Java is but it's alright. THe course that teaches C (1st or second semester course) also teaches PHP and Python and CGI and a bunch of other random shit.

>>61464304
>i learned that shit in like 2 months when i was 14

Java is fucking massive. You certainly didn't master it. I bet you never learned more than the basic features.

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>hardest

wat

it was my introductory language and I can think of a hundred languages that would be harder to learn first.

>>61465461
>UBC
>Functional programming as intro
>90% white profs
Feels good man.

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>>61466674
>Everyone knows Java is one of the hardest languages to learn right off the bat

Ever year there's less and less reason to attend an Ivy

>>61466674
Java is probably second best after C as a first language, I would think.

>>61464575
>Nah, Java is going to fade away eventually.
You do realize Java just won't ever fade away. It's gone through a decade of that FUD crap, and if anything it'll stand another decade.
Even if it did, there's a ton of applications that would turn legacy, just like how Ada is a dead language but the defense industry thrives on it.

>>61461714
>trafficdoesntincreasethatmuch.jpg

>>61466674
they are not completely wrong.
Because it forces you to go 100% OOP, you need tons of knowledge to do even the simplest things.
If, IF, you really want to understand every detail. If you only care about that it works and does what you want, then its super easy.

>>61466579
You can't expect to master ANY language in a fucking introductory course, least of all JS. They're just kowtowing to webdev memelords and people who learned programming in their web browsers.

Besides, I thought the point of college is to learn. Stanfords students are going 200,000 us $ into debt for a cs education that considers java too difficult to teach to a freshman? You could go to bootcamp and learn JS. They're supposed to teach science not fucking garbage.

>>61467040
>going to an ivy to learn instead of network
pleb

>>61467227
>I thought the point of college is to learn
No, the point of college is to incur a debt so that you fear the sack and obey your employers.

why does it even matter.

they have meme undergrad students looking for free credit.

why don't they just set up some basic fucking CI for all their assignments for various languages and just let people do whatever.

not like most of the languages actually used are severely different in the grand scheme of things.

this whole "how to syntax" bullshit is a waste of fucking time.

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>>61460559
>>61460887

>>61460559
Good, that means I'll be even more valuable.

>>61461846

Murica, folks!

>American education

>>61460559
All POO IN LOO aside, Java is fine; it's got a ton of tooling, code samples, is supported on every programming challenge website, has two solid IDEs, and is portable across operating systems. This is a stupid move for any other college that follows suit. It wouldn't be bad if they were moving laterally to something like C++ or even C# despite its infancy in cross-platform compatibility. I'd even support moving to something nuts like Python, but Javascript? No one should have to trifle with the DOM when just starting out. No one should have to be dazed by == and ===. No one new should have to be aware of all of the retarded ways you can write a function in Javascript. It's a ridiculous choice for an introductory language. I wouldn't even say even something like Typescript would be acceptable as an introductory language.

>>61460694
As much as I fucking HATE to agree with Rajeesh, Java is a better intro language than Python.

I suppose it's too much to ask that Standard grow some balls and start with C followed by C++.

>>61467256
Theyre trying to maximize proportion of passing undergrads by language hopping instead of actually considering the content of their curriculum. Can't believe its stanford too, are they falling for the "produce minorly competent code monkeys as quick as possible" meme? I'm glad I attend a uni that puts a lot of real effort into trying to improve their 1st year curriculum.

>>61460586
We had C gliding over into C++
I don't remember if we started with assembly in the 2nd or 3rd semester.

>>61467438
I have yet to see a C++ curriculum that isnt trash. I think teaching C first is doable, but difficult. It depends what kind of programmer you want by 2nd and 3rd semester, what theyll need to know etc. I'm a proponent of HtDP which emphasizes generally being able to write good programs rather than just hammering syntax (like lots of courses) or teaching too much domain specific stuff (like learning pointers and bit manip like you usually do in an intro C course)

>>61467269
The best part is those are fucking kites
Idris doesn't have this problem

>>61467407
DOM is not part of js though

Purdue uses Matlab as an introductory programming class.
It helps get basic concepts down and teaches engineers how to use one of the best calculators.

>>61467407
>DOM
what is node?
>== and ===
Is there any reason to even teach == anymore, other than something == null?
Besides, some pajeets can't even == from Object.equals() in java as it is.

>>61467563
matlab is garbage though. why would you willingly pay for a programming language when better open source alternatives exist? the only reason is stubborn stockholm-syndrome afflicted engineers who cant be bothered to read up on python or julia

>>61467607
Honestly, it was a waste of time when everything I learned in the course felt like I had to reinvent the wheel instead of just using my CAD calculator.

Eclipse is pure cancer what with it's modules and plugins

If I had a dollar for every time that IDE broke on me, i'd have 336.24 yen

Glad I stopped using Java

>>61460887
This I got to a little state ink and even they know to give us two semesters of pure c, just a touch of sql in sysanalan(big black)Design, is standford the largest cs meme of them all?

>>61460681
My uni just switched from Java to Scala for the intro class for compsci and they will migrate over the rest of the compsci intro classes eventually.

>>61467695
I've successfully been able to only use intelliJ for all my classes and my part-time java job even though most other coworkers, classmates and professors seem hellbent on using eclipse.

My CS introductory language is Haskell. Not sure if it's a good thing.

>>61467695
>Struggling with an IDE
>Needing a IDE for Java

You're just dumb, lol.

>>61468959
Not OP, but using intelliJ for java has been pretty great. I like all the ways it helps me, not sure why you think it's better to skip using an IDE? Hardcore nerd points?

I could see myself skipping the IDE for a little class assignment or something, but I'd rather shoot myself than try to handle the legacy java codebase I'm working on at work without an IDE.

>tfw my university teaches EVERYTHING in java
>Include data structures, a section of programming that specifically benefits from using pointer operations
>NOPE, JABA!

>>61462268
That's what happens when you put out the first version within 10 days of coming up with the idea.

>>61469044
I did my data structures course in Java and then did a course in C. I feel like it was OK.

>>61462036
No, the main reason Android is bad is called Linux kernel. That's why Google wants to replace it with Fuchsia.

Even C++ is better than Java.

>>61469110
Writing linked lists or tree structures in java makes me cry inside

>tfw intro to programming class in python2.7
>tfw no face

>>61469575
>>tfw no face
are faces only supported by python3?

>>61467040
Stanford isn't an ivy

>>61467438
As a CS major who was taught Java first then C and C++ later. Java was easier to learn, but I wish I was introduced to the complexities of C first. One big thing that I can think of is that Java has a garbage collector so you are basically allowed to write shit code. Once we started learning C, that shit wouldn't fly and the idea of memory allocation was lost on many.

C might be harder to learn, but for CS it's a better foundation imo.

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>>61460559
>inhales twice without exhaling

>>61466380
This

>>61460559
>breathes in
>inhales

what the fuck are you doing?

>>61460681
Rockstar profs like Dijkstra can do whatever they want. That doesn't mean that it's actually a good idea.

>>61470932
I learned C++ my senior year of HS and took the AP exam, but I first played with code in BASIC when I was a toddler, but like, I didn't really know what I was doing.

The sad state of education is one of the reasons why there are so many coding bootcamps. They're literally more useful than college.