/pcbg/ - PC Building General

Reposting from the last thread:
Does anyone know if the tempered glass side panel from the Corsair 460x will fit a 400q?

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Someone is bidding on all GTX 1060 3GB auctions, what the fuck is going on? I saw one sold for almost 300 USD, new strategy to further increase GPU prices? who the fuck is gonna play the new games if there's nobody with a GPU decent enough to run them?

>>61385028
>2017
>playing games
I'm sorry anon, all GPUs are now being rebranded as MPUs; Mining Processor Units

you nignogs meme about the i9 being 140 watt tdp but completely brush over the fact amd had a 220w pos only 2 years ago

>>61385077
Oh we completely remember, and I gave them shit for that back then too; I was (and still kinda am) a huge intel fangoy and gave AMD shit for ages. I've yet to build with AMD but I'm looking forward to the experience with my Ryzen5

>>61385077
Yeah, two years ago, and they went to 65 W TDP then. Meanwhile Intel tries too redefine the slang "toaster" because apparently its current meaning uys politically incorrect or something.

>>61385110
>/g/
>Talking bad about AMD

Where do you think we are? Also Ryzen brings absolutely nothing to the table for 90% of consumer market who already own anything from last 4 years. Threadripper and Epyc are the real deal makers but those $700+ CPUS are something that doesn't concern 99% of /g/. CPU market is fucking dead to me. At least poorfags will be able to buy more than 4 cores for their hard earned money but the IPC game is as dead as it was 5 years ago.

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Sorry for pleb post but looking to potentially upgrade system for more fps in overwatch primarily. Worth upgrading gpu+other components or should I start from scratch?

>>61384928
No.

>>61385077
That 220W CPU still ran 20°C cooler than 140W Skylake-X.

>>61385077
Lmao. /g/ is AMD shill zone. I mean /g/ gave Fermi so much fucking shit but Vega is having all the signs of the same problems and you have daily wait for vega threads. 290x had a 300 TDP and no one gave it shit either.

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>>61385077
>Ultimately, we’re looking at power consumption numbers similar to some high-end graphics cards when we start messing with Skylake-X. AMD’s FX-9590 doesn’t even come close to these results, if that means anything to you.

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/-intel-skylake-x-overclocking-thermal-issues,5117-4.html

Nice try, Brian.

>>61385193
Just a GPU upgrade would suffice for Overwatch but good luck finding one right now

>>61385229
/w4v/ is simply a damage control attempt by some buttblasted AMD loving mod to stop all those threads from BTFO'ing his "year of the AMD" delusion.

>>61385229
>Vega is having all the signs of the same problems
No it doesn't Fermi was much worse
>290x had a 300 TDP and no one gave it shit either.
Because again Fermi was much worse

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>>61385229
The 290X had a 250W TDP and consumed just under 250W under load. Only 17W more than a 780 Ti. I wonder which was the smarter buy?

>>61385254
Something about AMD makes people stupid

>>61385229
Fermi overheated and had a tendency to blow up
Vega just uses a lot of power

>>61385249
Gpu upped to what? Possible for 144hz or bottlenecked by cpu. I work in pc part distribution so should be alright I believe.

>>61385176
I hope you know that just barely before 7/5 nm switch, you couldn't have said something more wrong.

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>>61385271
>Just under 250W under load
>Maximum of 346 watts
>246 Average

>>61385286
Vega uses a lot of power, comes out one year later vs its competitor, will be more expensive because larger die and HBM2.

Look at 970 and the 3.5 memes but AMD literally releases a 1000 dollar card with 1/2 of the features fucking disabled or crippled.

https://au.pcpartpicker.com/list/txYsNN
for graphics

>>61385307
OC your 2500K as high as you can and get a GTX 1060 that should get over 144 fps. You only have 60Hz screens in that pic though so that didn't seem like a requirement.

https://www.techspot.com/review/1209-nvidia-geforce-gtx-1060/page2.html

>>61385313
Friendly reminder that 14nm Ryzen has the IPC of 22nm Ivy Bridge.

>>61385321
And? What's your point? If you think TDP is supposed to be a measurement of peak power consumption (or power consumption at all), you're incredibly tech-illiterate. Literally all graphics cards operate this way. Why are you focusing on the 290X? Other than the obvious of you being a shitposter of course.

>>61385321
That's how averages work

>>61385387
Am I wrong? AMD cards constantly draw more power and run hotter but everyone gave Nvidia shit for Fermi but when it is AMD, it is dindu nuffin. I bet Vega will be the same. Morons will still shill Vega here.

El-cheapo budget build ~$100

>$20 - i3 from ebay
>$20 - 1155 mobo from ebay
>$20 - ebay PSU
>$8 - 4GB DDR3 ram
>$30 - 2TB HDD (refurb HGST) ebay
Total: $98
Use iGPU until proper GPU is found. Your budget.

With proper GPU, it will be a 1080p machine for a while. If you need it, you can upgrade to i7 or i5 el-cheapo.

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>>61385421
Wrong about what, you goddamn moron? You're not making any points, you're just proving that you know nothing about technology.

>muh power spikes

The GTX 1080 has a 180W TDP and spikes up to 311W under gaming load. That's even worse than the 290X. So you agree that Nvidia cards are the real housefires, right?

>>61385425
>$20 ebay psu

Enjoy your concrete paper weight

>>61385344
wtf?

>>61385458
I am giving an example of a card that runs hotter, draws more power and frequently doesn't perform in games. Fuck off you moron. Go doctor some screenshots for Vega. You will need them.

>>61385425
Current CPU performance in 90% of games is mostly dependent on ram speeds. Buying some pos no name DDR3 running at 1333Mhz would give you 30-50% lower performance than your modern cheapo Pentium using 3ghz ddr4 even if their IPC were literally the same on paper.

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>>61385475
I won't need anything. I have a 1080 and won't need to upgrade until Volta/Navi.

>frequently doesn't perform in games

Compared to what? Its competition from 2013, the 780 Ti? A card which now performs worse than a 380X? Top laff, friend.

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>>61385508

In a few rare cases a 290x will slide up and gently fondle a 980ti's testicles.

>>61385508
>Wow the 290x finally outperforms the 780ti 4 years after the release.
Truly marvelous engineering from AMD.
Maybe in 2020 the RX Vega will outperform the 1080.

>I have a 1080
Sure you do.

>>61385495
>>61385465
>Why don't you spend extra $300 for better performance?

Because $100 build.

how can I find out if my mobo supports using 2+1 DIMMS (two in dual channel and one on single)?

I'm using a GA-F2A85X-UP4, couldn't find anything regarding it on the internet

Reminder to ignore the posts containing "housefire", it's that same bored NEET redditor who lives in this thread.

>>61385560
>meanwhile the only post that mentioned that word was saying bad things about nvidia
hmm

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>>61385537
>b-b-b-but vega!!!
Has anyone ever been so BTFO?

>Sure you do.
No need to be jealous of me, Pajeet. Just another 17,000 shillposts and you can afford a 1050 Ti to call your own!

>>61385528
And in reality Fury X was 30 fps behind 980 ti in 80% of the cases.

>>61385575
DELET

>>61385583

Yeah, no.

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>>61385575
I am not sure you should be calling people with better cards then you poor.

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>>61385583
>Fury X was 30 fps behind 980 ti in 80% of the cases

14% on average at 1080p. 9% at 1440p. 2% at 4K.

https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/AMD/R9_Fury_X/31.html

>>61385574
>nvidia is housefire, amd is not
>intel is housefire, amd is not
>inserts good goyim images from reddit
Same old shitposting tactics in every thread, 24/7

>>61385606
So Fury X draws more power and performs behind the 980ti? Am i supposed to be impressed by that?

>>61385627
Yes dude, muh HBM, muh DX12 (here's a benchmark from Ashes of the Singularity)

>>61385603
Oh, they actually supply you with a 1080 Ti to work on? That's great. Do they let you play a game of your choice at the end of the day if you meet your quota?

>>61385627
That's it, buddy. Walk back on your claim and change the argument to one that can't be immediately blown the fuck out. There's a good lad!

>>61385640
Wanna bet it will be the same for RX vega vs 1080

>>61385550
It works the same way for all boards. How many DIMMs you can use is a question of ranks, if you're using single rank memory you can always use all slots (unless you have one of the transition boards with DDR3 and 4 slots, there you can only use one obviously).

Dual channel interleaved mode requires the same capacity in both channels, frequency and timings are set to what the worst DIMM in the group has. If you have more memory in one channel (4GB in channel A, 2x4GB or 1x8GB in Channel B for example) you'll have 2x4GB (A/B) running in dual channel and 4GB in single channel, that's called "flex mode". It's a standard feature since 2013 or so, check your manual to see if your board supports it

>>61385468
? i went matx for space

>>61385648
>blown the fuck out.
You need to be at least 18 to post here.

>>61385648
>Oh, they actually supply you with a 1080 Ti to work on? That's great. Do they let you play a game of your choice at the end of the day if you meet your quota?
Someone sounds butthurt. You need to shitpost more to afford a better card anon.

>Walk back on your claim and change the argument to one that can't be immediately blown the fuck out. There's a good lad!
What was my claim again? Oh yeah AMD cards are hotter, draw more power and perform worst. Nothing you have shown me proves otherwise.

>>61385670
>s-s-s-stop b-bullying me!!!

>>61385673
>Someone sounds butthurt
About what? I've enjoyed making you look like the retard you are. No compensation needed, other than the satisfaction I feel. As I said, I won't need an upgrade until Volta/Navi.

>What was my claim again?
That the 980 Ti was on average 30fps ahead of the Fury X. Here, I'll quote it for you.

>Fury X was 30 fps behind 980 ti in 80% of the cases

Short term memory loss could be a sign of serious health problems, anon. I'd see a doctor right away.

>>61385663
Why an FX-9370?

>>61385365
The same for skylake and kaby lake.

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>>61385704
>I've enjoyed making you look like the retard you are
How? By showing me AMD cards are inferior?

>That the 980 Ti was on average 30fps ahead of the Fury X. Here, I'll quote it for you.
Wasn't me retard but I guess you have a victim complex so everyone is against you.

Now you are going to say I shopped it right? What a faggot

>>61385659
hm, there was nothing on the manual mentioning it, so I guess it doesn't support it

thanks for answering

>>61385704
>N-no, you!!! haha rekt lmao

I've been meaning to buy a new PC for a while, but now GPUs are insane. Should I pull the trigger on the rest of my build, or wait to buy it all at once?

>>61385750
Later especially if you have a Ryzen unless you carry your GPU from your old build forward

>>61385750
buy everything but the graphics card, wait until august-september

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I have a pretty old PC (phenom x4 965, radeon 6850, asrock 970 extreme3), but I might need to start working on a personal project that involves programming for Vulkan. That being said, is there anything stupid that could happen if I just buy a gtx 1060 and shove it in place of the old amd card? I don't care that much about bottlenecks I just want Vulkan support now.

>>61385743
i can't find anything with a quick google search either. But it's been around since LGA775 so i'm rather sure that A58 boards should support it. You can probably find something in the BIOS/UEFI under memory configuration

>>61385839
I'll take a look there too then

thanks

>>61385839
>>61385850
I've found channel interleaving and rank interleaving, they're both enabled

is that what I was looking for?

>>61384894
Recently sold my rx480 to a buttcoin miner for 50% profit and I'm currently using an old radeon 6450. Got an rx580 ordered on Amazon but no idea when it will be re-stocked. Do I buy it once it is available again, or do I wait for something better? (Vega?)

>>61385718
cheapest 8 core and high clock rate

>>61385893
if you buy the 580 for the price you sold the 480 then you'll throw 50% of your money on the trash

>>61385916
No, I will be buying it at the price I bought the 480 for. I sold it for 150% the price I originally paid.

>>61385930
then you're fine, i'd wait and see on vega pricing though

>>61385891
that's normal dual channel mode (interleaved mode) same capacity, same ranks in both channels

>>61385942
thx famalam

>>61385909
but it sucks. Only the cheap bulldozers/piledrivers were somewhat OK for budget builds. Until Ryzen intel didn't really have competition for like 6 years.

reminder to never buy anything from nzxt that isn't a case. their lighting kits and loop coolers require CAM which literally datamines your machine 24/7.

>>61385943
so if I didn't see anything called "flex mode" or similar, then I can't do what I wanted?

>>61385969
Never buy hardware that needs software beyond drivers, senpai.

>>61385998
Logitech mouse tho

>>61385994
not necessarily, descriptions in BIOS/UEFI are often obscure and sometimes you can't even see it until the hardware that's required to use it is installed

I'd just give it a try, but i have some DIMMs i could use to test it lying around

>>61386010
NEVER

>>61386061
I have a single DIMM here, that is the one I wanted to add,the problem is that I have to take everything apart just to add it, and if it doesn't work I have to take everything apart again to remove it

I don't have that kind of time in my hands

>>61386119
well, good luck whatever you end up doing. I'd give it a try, chances are your board will support it

Does a b250 and g4560 support ddr4 2400 ram? Google results have different answers.

>>61386152
Check QVL

>>61385764
>>61385766
Which one is it bros?

>>61386152
yes, but official documentation always stats some low shit
you really dont need to fear with intel and ram, 3200 no problem

>>61386173
Up to you. If you have a spare GPU then buy it. Otherwise it is just going to be sitting there collecting dust.

>>61384894
Should i buy a R9 380X for 170€ or R7 370 for 120€ as back up cards? Both are new and the seller only wants to clear out the stock it seems.

>>61386203
> Both are new and the seller only wants to clear out the stock it seems.
Might have been used for mining
>380x for 170€
That's the retail price of an RX 570, pretty shit deal

>>61386161
It points me to the manufacturer's website but I can't seem to find it. Sorry if I'm being retarded.

>>61386239
It is under specifications

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>>61386203
>R9 380X for 170€

no, when brand new gtx1050ti from a shop costs 150€

>>61386258
>4GB vs 2GB
meh.

>>61386233
>>61386258
Cards are 100% new but you're right, 1050Ti is much better. Don't really know anything but older AMD cards.

>>61386277
if there would not be miningcraze
you would be buying rx570 or gtx1060 3gb for that kind of money
and both are far better that gtx1050ti
that offhand selling 380x should not even be in the picture unless the guy drops to some 100€

I always hate this morons who claim its new or some shit
I am taking a risk buying it from you and not from shop, adjust your price moron or go try someplace else

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>>61386256

>>61386132
I think it's too much work for 2GB of ram, if I didn't have to remove the cpu cooler every time I wanted to mess around with the ram i'd already have done it though

thanks for all the help and information

>>61386327
Sorry have been up all night and it is getting to me. I meant to say it is not under specifications.

It is normally under support -> Memory specification or something like that

>>61386310
>if there would not be miningcraze
Cryptominer holocaust when?
Cards really are new, found them on Mindfactory, so no private reseller.
Vega needs to fucking arive already so that i know whether to buy, get 1080 or get some cheap shit and hold until Volta.

>>61384894
I'm thinking about upgrading my CPU/Mobo/RAM combo, currently have an i5 3570k at 3.8Ghz, a shitty mobo that I should have never bought and 16GB of mismatched ram at 1333Mhz.

I've looked into it and have decided to get a Ryzen 1700, an MSI 8350 motherboard (but I'll change for anything better, I really just got one that looked fine) and a 16GB (2x8) RAM kit by Corsair @3200mhz.
Total price at the online store that usually has the best prices in my country (I'm in Spain) is 560€.

I can go higher or replace any component but this is the idea I had, any suggestions?

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>>61386356
Sounds fine so far

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>>61386350
Dude, same. I was blaming my lack of sleep for my inability to find things. Thanks, BTW. Wish they included the actual names instead of these numbers.

>>61386405
Just find the latency and frequency you want and google a little. Shouldn't be too hard.

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>>61386356
if you got the budget and use for it, sure go do it
I sold my i5-6600k and went for r7 1700 because of shop making a pricing mistake and I was buying combo of the cpu + mobo for 250€
and I actually have use for it with many virtual machines on linux

but if you also can upgrade some other parts of your build
SSD, HDD, new higher tier monitor/second monitor, passive speakers with small amp, mechanical keyboard, gpu,...

then it might be smarter to go there, because despite craze, modern i5 still have a lot of ass to kick

I'm planning on upgrading to W10, what's the cheapest way I can get a transferable license?

>>61386417
Will do. One more thing, should I buy 1x8gb now then add more later as opposed to buying 16gb right off the bat?

>>61386453
Depends. You always want to run your RAM in dual channel instead of single. How soon are you planning to upgrade? Within 3~6 months get 8gb. Otherwise get 2x4 or 2x8.

i7 920 vs i5 2500k in modern games, which is better? 2500k has higher clocks, but 2 times less threads. Currently i'm on 920 but ma friend offers me his 2500k for free. Is it worth it?

>>61386443
http://www.zdnet.com/article/heres-how-you-can-still-get-a-free-windows-10-upgrade/
You are still eligible for a free update

>>61386468
I heard that 4 threads aren't enough for some 2017 games

>>61386468
The one with the better GPU. People really over estimate how important the CPU is. 99% of the time the GPU is the bottleneck instead of the CPU.

>>61386435
I already have 2SSDs and 4HDDs, 2 screens and great peripherals and a good GPU. The CPU/mobo/RAM is what needs upgrading at the moment.

But I did look into buying a new case because the one I currently have, an HAF912, is too 16 year old for my current taste.

Mainly my reasons for upgrading are that it's not just a game station, it's also my work station, and I do many things on this computer and I've noticed that lately, especially with newer games like Battlefield 1 I just can't get good fps anymore, I've been playing Battlefield 1 at 60fps for a while and I can't stand it anymore, I want something that won't have me turning off all background applications trying to scrape off 5 extra frames.

>>61386479
I lost the W7 key I had on this machine (I was a dumb kid and formatted without taking down the key), so I'm on a pirated copy.

I was thinking of buying a cheap as shit W7 OEM key but I read that those can't be transfered. Is that just legalese bullshit or will M$ actually prevent me from, say, disabling this key on one machine and reactivating it on another?

About to pull the trigger on this for a friend, what does the hivemind think: https://www.caseking.de/save-cart/7c77b5794e95cbb83368

>>61386467
Within 3 months.

>NEET life

>>61386468
you would get better performance in most games, especially if overclocked

but its a cpu from 2011 and been used on that mobo for years...
if its for $50 with mobo included then why not
if its for $100+ its a bad investment IMO

>>61386519
Budget of €800 too

>>61386517
>will M$ actually prevent me from, say, disabling this key on one machine and reactivating it on another?
They will.
If you are cheap go on Ebay/Kinguin/Allkeysite and get an OEM key.
If you are really fucking cheap go ask around for a spare key from an old computer or go to your uni library and take it off their PC.

>>61386487
U didnt't get it. I just got my new 1070 and i'm wondering which cpu would be better. Should i stay with 920 @ 3.8 or change to 2500k @ 4.8 (probably estimated OC).
And yes, i know that both are old and they won't load 1070 at 100%

>>61386528
Within 3 months then get 1x8 and then key another one WHICH IS EXACT THE SAME MODEL. You don't want to mix and match RAM.

>>61386532
Its free, he just gave his old cpu+mobo+ram to me

>>61386560
Whoa, duly noted. Thanks famalam.

>>61386555
You have your stuff now right?
Here is an easy way to test. Go load up your most intensive game and turn on MSI afterburner.
Proceed to play the game and monitor your CPU and GPU load respectively. If your GPU isn't hitting 100% while your CPU is constantly hitting 100% consider changing.

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My z170 motherboard died. Do I have to do a clean reinstall of Windows if the new board is z270 (and same brand)?

>>61386519
>>61386542
250GB ssd minimum, make use of m.2 slot
trust me on this
120 feels like being punished after a year of use

https://www.caseking.de/en/samsung-960-evo-nvme-ssd-pcie-3.0-m.2-typ-2280-250-gb-ssss-112.html

>>61386568
so yeah, clock that shit to 4.4ghz and enjoy much higher fps
or go and sell it and buy alcohol and weed for partying

>>61386519
Why that speed of RAM?

>>61386592
No

>>61386592
you will see, wont you...
most likely no, especialyl if you have 8/10 win

>>61386584
Which game u suggest? I suppose PUBG is not a best game for such tests. I need something cpu-dependent, right?

>>61386629
Do you have Total War Warhammer?

>>61386634
Uhhhm nope unfortunately, cos i heard it's bad
love DoW 1 although

>>61386629
A game with a lot of simulation and physics will be the best while also graphically intensive. >>61386634 is a great game to bench with. So is wildlands if you have that. Or rise of the tomb raider. Xcom 2. Remember to max out your settings cause you want to force your gpu to 100%

>>61386644
It's awesome, I really enjoy it. What this anon said is true too >>61386669
Anything very simulation heavy. In fact XCOM 2 at max settings is a great one.

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>>61386468
http://www.gamersnexus.net/guides/2980-intel-i7-930-revisit-nehalem-benchmarks-2017/page-3
Between the 930 and 2500k, 930 is usually faster. Somewhat variable.

>>61386614
Price basically, I'm already over budget.

>>61386599
Fair enough, there's a western digital one for 30 euro less though. My friend is tech illiterate, he won't notice the difference

hello where are all the new sexy mitx cases?

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/hxxwQV

Anything unbalanced?

>Fractal Define R5 HDD trays only screw in on one side of the bay
>the other side has no screw and is free to vibrate

What kind of colossally retarded fuck made this design choice in a case that's supposed to be focused on noise reduction?

>>61386957
>spend $600 on an Nvidia GPU
>pick a $700 Freesync monitor to go with it

Anon...

>>61386969
>HDD trays only screw in on one side of the bay
what

>>61386992
RX580 won't drive +75Hz on the panel

>>61387003
If you're blowing $700 on a monitor at least get a Gsync monitor to go with your video card.

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>>61386881
i am interested too

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>>61386997
Those little white trays that you screw the HDD onto just float in the black HDD bays because
>m-muh toolless slide out

Except the side facing the fans has no screw holes if you wanted to lock it in place. They vibrate every time the HDD spins up.

>>61386997
Go look up reviews in the case. It is a common complain

>>61386852
TY for the tests. But my 920 only gets 3.8
And i thought 4.5 for 2500k is considerably bad OC, isn't it?

>>61387019
not sure if g-sync is a) worth $250 extra for ultrawide, or b) worth not getting an ultrawide

>>61387046
Try putting the soft side of some adhesive velcro strips on the trays to dampen vibration. I've done that successfully for some trays in a NAS

I'm getting WAY less fps than usual, driver issue?

I usually get around 200fps in csgo, since today I get 60 fps.

>>61387219
I've been having the same problems with my 1060 recently (it broke 40c and kinda annoyed me). But I think it's just blizzard breaking everything

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https://pcpartpicker.com/list/cqdgNN

What's a good monitor to go with this?

>>61387274
What is wrong with that monitor that your purchased?

>>61385028
Clearly the console industry is sabotaging the PC gaming industry.

Though a lot of people i know seem to be willing to save up more and buy a higher end card, who's prices haven't been effected as much.

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I've been passively creating a build for a while now. Buying up parts when I find worthy sales.

My build so far:

CPU: i7 - 7700k
PSU: Evga 750W G2
SSD: Samsung Evo 250gb
MOBO: Asus Strix Z270E
Cooler: Kraken x62
Case: NZXT 340 Elite

I need some advice on what GPU and RAM to get for my build.

I don't really do much gayming but I need to do quite a lot of Photo/Video editing and machine learning/data analysis.

I'm deciding between a 1060 and 1070. 1080s are fuckoff expensive atm. And I'm kind of lost about the state of RAM these days(I haven't built a PC since the days of DDR2).

Any advice would be much appreciated.

I'm a bit of an idiot... bought a new motherboard, and it doesn't support my NVMe drive (X370, not in compatibility list). Will a PCIe M.2 adapter get around this?

>>61386546
Balls. I might have to replace my mobo if my Windows install isn't what's causing crashes. Thanks for the help!

>>61387437
Ryzen 7 would be a better fit for you but if you already have the 7700k then I guess that's that. Get a NVMe ssd for a scratch drive for video editing and 32gb of RAM

>>61387551
Yeah I was considering the ryzen but I found the 7700k at a really good price so I went for that.

I should've specified the SSD is Samsung 960 EVO M.2 NVMe PCI-E.

Any recommendation on which RAM brand in particular? (I was looking at Corsair Vengeance ddr4-3000)

>>61385077

Here's the thing though, the 9590's power consumption wasn't too far off from it's TDP (230-270w). The 7900x otoh, with its "low" TDP of 140w, has an actual power consumption of over 300w at its peak.

>>61387412
Well it's a solid investment really. It'll last you 2-4yrs and then you can sell it off for half RRP or even bundle it in your old build and sell it off.

>>61385028
>>61387412

this >>61385069
lots of people are still scrambling to jump on the Ethereum mining train before it becomes impossible for GPU rigs to mine economically... so decent Graphics cards will probably be rarely seen on ebay until this demand dies down

What do you guys think about this build?

I'm going for futureproof, good with games, and good with running multiple things at the same time.

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/gNTKm8

Thanks!

>>61388011
If you want future proof splurg and grab a 1080, otherwise save yourself some bucks and drop back to a 1600

>>61387365

oops, wrong list.

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/TqF2LD

Need a 3tb for muh gaymes, some media, and recording stuff.

Should I grab an hgst refurb or pay $25 more for a Toshiba p300?

>>61387960

It already is impossible! How in the fuck do these people think they're ever going to make any money? They just totally forget the fact that they blew $10,000 on a bunch of GPUs, motherboards, and PSUs and run their little calculation tool that says they're making $1 a day profit after energy costs and pat themselves on the back.

They will NEVER recover the cost of that mining rig. It would take several years to do so at the current hash difficulty, but it's not going to stay the current hash difficulty it's going to get more difficult. This shit is like trying to pay off a college loan by only putting in the minimum monthly payment. Interest and inflation fuck you in the ass and 30 years later you've lost more than the original principal in interest alone.

$30 a fucking month. You could make more money being a god damn Amazon Mechanical Turk.

>>61388081
Fukken this.

>>61388081
I agree it's already too late to start and the difficulty is shooting up daily but some people are banking on it booming in the future like Bitcoin, even if that happens it's still not worth spending so much on the hardware today... better to just buy Ether and invest that way

>>61386599
any reason to use the M.2 for an ssd instead of a sata connection other than freeing up more sata connections/space?

>>61388081
The true scum are the "friends" telling people to get in on, knowing they'll lose money in the long run but want to push the market up.

>>61388246

I got one because one of my HDD trays was in the way of my fans, so I use my M.2 for boot and I have a couple HDDs in the basement. Better airflow, more aesthetic

Any reason to go to a X370 mobo over a B350 if I don't care about sli/crossfire ?

Should I wait until I get a real job to build a PC or build one now with a 1060 gpu and ryzen 5 1600 cpu?

>>61388911
How much is the 1060 in your location?

>>61388947
$268 with free shipping because I have Amazon Prime.

>>61388959
Which currency? Because in the US I was looking at a 1060 but went for the ASUS 1080 because of such a small diff

>>61388995
U.S. dollars. Is there actually a cheap 1080 on Amazon?

Decided to go with 1440p 144hz monitor. Should I get the Viewsonic XG2703-GS or Acer Predator XB271HU monitor?

http://www.viewsonic.com/us/xg2703-gs.html
https://www.acer.com/ac/en/US/content/predator-model/UM.HX1AA.001

>>61389013
Get a dell.

>>61389012
I went to a local Microcenter, got the ASUS 1080 STRIX for $550

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I'm ignorant and so I need some recommendation. I just want to play modern games at stable 1080/60fps and be able to upgrade it after other 2-3 years, nothing fancy, with a 800-1000 dollars budget. Please help.
From the OP I got that
>R5 1600
>RX580
could be 2 suitable components.

>>61389085
Ah okay, I don't want to spend that much on a gpu right now. That's why I think maybe I should wait until I get a nice job which hopefully won't be too long from now. I still have a semester of college left.

>>61389104
>Anonymous 07/15/17(Sat)12:09:43 No.61389
I get it. I'm almost close to finishing my masters. But the 1060 and 1070 ARE RIDICULOUSLY PRICED so I just went a peg up.

>>61389103
Depends on what route you take, AMD or Intel?

>>61389132
I know what you mean. Which is why after finding 1060 for $269 it makes me wonder if I should get it or not. I could build a PC with that for $1000 or less which would be nice but maybe I should just save that money for now.

>>61389103
Location? AMD or Intel? Other uses beyond games?

>>61389188
Honestly I want my 1080 build to last me 2 years at least

>>61389204

It will last until the 1180 comes out and Nvidia gimps the previous generation with drivers..

I'm experiencing this now with my 980ti

What free OS can I use if I want to play Steam games and I don't want to use Windows 10 anymore?

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Hi babes, how does this look for 1440p? NCIX claims compatibility issues with the motherboard and case (?)
Case in question:
http://www.ncix.com/detail/corsair-obsidian-series-750d-airflow-fc-110329.htm
Motherboard:
http://www.ncix.com/detail/asrock-fatal1ty-x370-gaming-k4-2b-139781.htm

How does this build look? Worth getting 1700/1800x or would the 1600x be more than enough for future maxing at 1440p

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>>61389173
>>61389194
I have read that AMD has a very good performance/price ratio, so I'd prefer that.

>>61389194
>Other uses beyond games
Studying, so basically nothing.

>>61389241

>>61389241

Just use Windows 10. The only people that advise against that are pedophiles on /g/ that are paranoid of the FBI.

why are 1050tis all over $150!

>>61389233
True but the 1080 will hold value, I think so at least

Will the upcoming releases of Vega be good and not completely inflated in price because of cryptocurrency miners?

>>61389291

Buying AMD is never recommended unless you are a poor person. Devs optimize for Nvidia.

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I need some help /g/ents. I need a new power supply because the current one is extremely noisy and gets hot. I could buy a new fan but the power supply is old and I'd rather replace it. I need help with wattage selection. I have no idea who many watts I need.

I have and older i5 4690k CPU, GTX 1060, SSD, HDD, and DVD burner that I rarely use. I also have 120mm 3 fans.

How many watt power supply would I need? Thanks!

is cable management actually important beyond aesthetic reasons

>>61389405
Yes, you want the air to flow through the case without any obstacles in its way so it can get to the main parts of the machine and keep it cool, you dont have to do an amazing job but it is needed unless you like toasters.

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/X4LQbj
Any more possible improvements that will keep the build in the 1k range before I start buying parts?

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>>61389246
Forgot
>>61389194
>Location
Italy.

>>61385028
Buy a 1050ti

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>>61389441
>https://pcpartpicker.com/list/X4LQbj
Change the 200r for the 270r, its cheaper looks better and will be less dusty. Pic related.


You can probably just use the stock cooler desu, especially for ryzen and the motherboard could be cheaper but that's up to you.

>>61389441
also forgot to mention >le 6usd for thermal paste.

PROTIP: THAT SHIT IS ALL THE SAME BUY IT OFF EBAY FOR .99c FOR FUCKS SAKE STOP FALLING FOR THE MEMES

>>61389291
Propably not.
Cryptomemes are fading out a little bit since Ethereum is becoming harder to mine and has been dropping in price for a month for a total of 50% reduction in value. Current rate of interest means that it will take like over 6 months to break even for anyone starting now, and a lot can happen during that time. Vega also consumes a lot of power and is unproven(and by some sources, not that good) in mining and nobody in mining is going to take a huge gamble by buying an expensive GPU that they have no idea how it will perform.

>>61389519
Do we even have the god damn price or release dates for the RX Vega cards? That Frontier Edition crap was a gigantic mistake.

>>61389245
Also wanted to add that I'm trying to make a more quiet system, so in terms of heat management I think this one will do fine especially with how open the case it...but the sound worries me. Gonna sell my 5 year old PC or cannibalize parts and sell those separately but when playing any recent game that taxes it, sounds like an absolute jet engine (not a meme, it's really bad)

>>61389497
If you are getting the 270R, that is the same price range as the p400 and S340 so you can consider those cases as well.

>>61389441
>>61389497
I recommend the 400c/400q

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I need to get a new GPU because one of the fans is broken on this one. If I'm upgrading, it's not worthing fixing it.

I want to upgrade my rig with maybe a $600 budget. I think my CPU is weak, but I'm not sure if I should get the same socket, it would suck to have to get a new mobo.

>>61389748
Cant you just buy a fan from the manufacturer or even find one off ebay? Its better to do that and sell the gpu for some cash

>>61389636
August.
Most likely early august since they can go all in on Threadripper and Vega at the same time.

>>61389748
Your CPU can probably push up to a 1060. Maybe a 1070, but that's a stretch.
I would just get a used Haswell i7 if you think you want more GPU than that.

guys, recommend me on budget ssd, 500-1TB preferred. going to buy samsung evo 850, is it any good?

Anyone know if the protection plan on amazon is worth it?

>>61390119
The squaretrade one I mean.

>>61390033
If you can't do NVME, that's as good as it gets.
Not really "budget". There are cheaper options. Almost any SATA SSDs today can max out the bandwidth without hiccups, unless it lacks DRAM. If you aren't doing many writes, you can save money by picking up a cheaper option. They all read essentially the same.

>>61389464
senpai buy a 1080, no regrets

Would I see much improvement by putting recording software on an ssd? I have my daw on my ssd already, but I'm thinking about getting a second ssd for vst's and other plug-ins.

I plan on multitasking (gaming, video editing, modding, game development, photo editing, and programming) I like to keep a lot of programs open at the same time, I'm looking at a 2000$ budget maybe a 100 or so more. I was thinking of R7 1700 and maybe a GTX 1070-80. How's it looking?

>>61390403
You'll get the most improvement by recording to an SSD (setting it as a cache and destination location) rather than just installing the program onto it.

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>>61389245
>>61389688

Please respond.

tfw the case you want is backordered

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811139078&cm_re=corsair_carbide-_-11-139-078-_-Product

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Wish me luck senpai. About to start my first assembly

>>61390519
>https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811139078&cm_re=corsair_carbide-_-11-139-078-_-Product
lol at meme case

>>61390555
For good luck remember to put some socks on and shuffle along the carpet.

>>61390611
the theme of the build is snow and ice. It's the only white/blue case I can find that fits with the theme.

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>Friend building a PC
>asks for help on fb
>just bullshit comments in the feed
>no ones asks for a budget
>ask what the budget
>$600-$800
>make him zen build with a gtx 1060 under $800
>go to the movies with him and find out he listened to EVERYONE on fb thats built a pc(most don't know wtf they are buying for doing) and bought a 1600x and a bunch of shit he'll never use
>he still hasn't bought the graphic card yet
He's probably $200-$300 over budget by now and will convince himself he needs a 4k monitor,he's beyond help."But anon it's his monies!." and he's a fucking idiot poor fag who doesn't know wtf a budget is. His little brother awhiel ago even asked for help to speed up his shitty pc but did he listen too? Hell no,he listen to his autistic friend and bought a used cpu off ebay(his comp was still slow as shit) when I told him he only need more RAM because 2GB wasn't cutting it maybe even a new graphic card because that gts 450 is dogshit for what he wants to play,Jesus Christ listen you fuckin furry fags.

>>61389017
why? Are they just as good?

>>61390660
>theme fag
wew

This thread is not your blog. No (You)s for you.

>>61390512
Your build is a mess.
Link a PCPP URL to your build so it's actually readable.

>>61390435
Help

>>61390799
It's fine.

>>61390692
>bitching someone is aiming for a specific aesthetic
wow. Look at the sour grapes here.
I just didn't want to do a black/red build or a pure black build like fucking everyone else. I wanted to do a different style of build. Sue me.
https://pcpartpicker.com/list/kK37jc

>>61390668
Post your build, I'm interested on a $800 Zen/1060.

>>61390891
It's gonna look bad, lad

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>>61390891

>snow/ice theme

Imo a white define r5 would fit the theme nicely. Blue power led to match, and maybe an idea is go for the window version and set with leds a faint blue glow (and I mean faint, don't overdo it)

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First time building a computer, how did I do boys

>>61391019

fine just throw in a 850 evo or pro at 256 next and reinstall your os on that, don't nvme meme

>>61390908
it was just a ryzen 1400/gtx 1060 mini-ITX build and if he couldn't afford a 1060 a rx 570 would replace it.

Why not
>Used 2500k or some other LGA1155 Sandy Bridge + Asus P8P67 / Z68 Deluxe / -V / -V Pro or Gigabyte P67A / Z68-UD7
>Used Asus STRIX/MSI Gaming GTX980 /Ti or Sapphire R9 Fury
and
>Never buy CPU with non-soldered IHS (Post-SB Intel on LGA1155 and post-Broadwell on LGA2011*), unless you're ready to place heatsink directly on the die
>Never buy first version of anything (that means die, 'completely' new CPU/GPU arch)

>120mm fans: 1) Original 1450RPM Gentle Typhoon's or 2) NF-P12; 140mm fan: NF-A15
>Best price/performance ratio 120mm CPU heatsink: Cooler Master Hyper 212 Evo and 140mm: Thermalright HR-02 Macho rev. b

>AMD GPU with best open source graphic stack: 1) Barts: HD6850 and 6870, 2) Tonga: R9 380, 3) Fiji: Fury/Nano

>>61391077
>Best price/performance ratio 1TB HDD: WD10EZEX
>Best price/performance ratio SSD: no

>>61391016
>an LED is now a color accent
please tell me about your degree in art. I want some blue accents that are always there.
also, if I wanted a brushed look, I'd get a delorean for brushed stainless steel. brushed plastic is just tacky.

>>61390991
Looking to get an aftermarket PSU shroud (via V1 tech) and possibly paint the case interior white or silver. Leaning towards white.

>>61391152

Really? You're whining about tacky while wanting a fucking Spec Alpha?

Should i buy a 120 gb ssd or 8 gb of ram. I only have 8gb of ram right now

>>61391262
If you have no SSD for boot and programs, get the SSD

>>61391262
Are you hitting the 8GB limit?
if yes then yes
else no

I dont know for SSDs

>>61391216
Looking like a modern art sculpture is still better than looking like a white cardboard box I'd otherwise ignore.

Do you think I can still my card to a buttcoin miner for double what I paid? There has to be at least one stupid motherfucker out there still.

>>61390724
https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/list/FH37jc

The motherboard seems to be an issue with mounting the NZXT

I want to try and make a relatively quiet and cool build so it doesn't sound like a jet engine, please suggest anything that could improve this

>>61391329
The majority of stupid motherfuckers are in this thread lad. You're probably one of them.

>>61391329
no. mining is on the decline. prices are starting to go down. you waited too long.

>>61391329
this isnt 2014 son

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Any tips on this build? Im trying to keep it around 900€.

Any feedback would be appreciate it. I'm not a hardcore gamer, would play some games but mostly watching movies.

https://www.wipoid.com/pcconf/953b172b786a5/

shit guys how hard do i tighten the heatsink screws?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OgRC6AzYhsY

following this vid (not same fan but same brand) and they seem to tighten it a lot. for some reason it seems like they won't tighten even though there is still room

>>61391354
Case is fucking shit

>>61391354
You could save a bit of dosh if you downgraded to a matx version of that board. Also what resolution are you gaymen at? A 1050ti would be fine for 60fps@1080p with a Ryzen 1600, that'll make your build even cheaper.

>>61391332
Get a regular 1600
You can probably use a B350 instead of X370
You probably don't need a Full Tower.
You don't need 850W. Find something 650W and you'll be fine.

>>61391325
>Looking like a modern art sculpture

Back at you m8
>please tell me about your degree in art

What is the most accurate way to monitor CPU temps? I got a 7700k and have been doing some OC stress testing, but I'm getting wildly different readings between Aida65, CAM, and the Corsair Link software that's for the h100i v2 cooler I'm using. One will show ~70c while the other shows mid 80s, I'm not sure what to believe

What do you think of this build for gaming?

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/YCrNm8

Going to buy a 144Hz monitor in the near future.

>>61391436
>>61391437
Any suggestions?

And resolution would be 1080p

>>61391490
P400 or S340

>>61391490
Just look for the Asus Prime B350M-A.

Case wise, if you're saving a bit of extra cash from the motherboard I'd go with something from fractal, they're always really nice and have good airflow.

I can help you more but you need to tell me which country you're located in. I can't use your weird website.

How viable is flipping computer parts? For instance, the EVGA SuperNOVA 650 G1 is $27 CDN off on amazon. Could I buy it and resell it later for 15 bucks off, thus making 12 bucks? Has anyone had any success doing this?

>>61391577
Get a job.

>>61391577
Parts generally are priced as low as they'll go, and reselling isn't really a viable option. That being said, if you said this a month earlier then you'd be swimming in 1080TIs with all the RX 480s you could have flipped.

Also get a job.

>>61391614
>>61391624
>get a job
wagecucks. there are dumbasses who do nothing but buy cheap shit from china and sell it on amazon and make hundreds of dollars per day.

>>61386356
Most of the b350 boards dont have LLC or SoC voltage adjustment, you're better off with a cheap x370 if you want that 4ghz. Also unless you're encoding or doing workloads on it an r5 will give you the same desktop/gaming performance. Spend the extra on a gpu or bigger ssd.

>>61391641
What you're doing is just wagecuckery by another name.

>>61391490
Here lad. Saved you a bit of cash. Would work well for anyone.

https://es.pcpartpicker.com/list/rwyYGf

>>61391458
In-kernel 'coretemp' driver with lm-sensors; it automagically reads the TJMax value from cpu (all Intel CPU's from Nehalem onwards).

>>61391429
pls answer

>>61391624
What the fuck happened to RX 480 prices? I thought mining got popular months ago.

>>61391736
And Realtemp and Hwmonitor on Windows has similar blob driver and read the TJMax value automagically too; they're accurate.

>>61391747
The hot new cryptomeme Ethereum peaked last month from $8 at the start of the year to just over $400 on June 13th, and now it's dipped down to under $200.

I'm on a budget and need a GPU.
My rig is a Pentium g4560 on a h110m mobo with 8gb ddr4 2133 and a 500w EVGA PSU.
A friend of mine is selling his GTX970 for roughly the same price as a brand new GTX1050TI. He's been using his 970 for the past 2 years as a secondary SLI card, it's in very good condition. Should I get the used 970 or stick with the 1050ti? I plan on upgrading to a i5 7400 on the future btw.

>>61391788
Forgot to say that I need it mainly for gaming.

>>61391788
Get the 970 and see if you can make him knock off a few dollar extra for you.

>>61391552
I'm from Spain. thanks.

>>61391787
Fuck that was only a month ago? Feels like ages ago. Do you think Ethereum switching to Proof of Stake will drive the GPU prices down or will they just move on to another memcecoin?

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Fell for the delid meme and tried to use that liquid metal stuff on my 1080Ti Aorus. When I turn my computer on it POSTs, gets to Windows then just goes black, but the audio still works.

I booted into safe mode, uninstalled the Nvidia driver, then restarted into normal mode. I went and downloaded the Nvidia driver, but halfway into the install the same shit happens, the screen goes black and doesn't come back.

How do I fix?

>>61391877
I feel like Ether will level out somewhere around $100-150 and people will move on to something else while GPU prices slowly fall back down.

>>61391827>>61391788


Will my 500W EVGA handle this big boy?
http://br.gigabyte.com/Graphics-Card/GV-N970G1-GAMING-4GD-rev-10-11#ov
GV-N970G1 GAMING-4GD

>>61391868
Yeah I did some detective work and figured that, the build I did is here:
>>61391696
The motherboard wont be in stock until tommorow so the price isn't listed on the total but it's much cheaper than your initial costs and would work for 60fps gaming.

>>61391906
Sure why not.

>>61391906
Yeah, easily. I used to run a 980Ti on a 500W PSU, it worked fine, it'll power a 970 in its sleep.

>>61391892
Explain in english motherfucker what you did.

>>61391892
>Niggabyte
Found your problem, why would you cheap out on a high end GPU?

>>61391955
Took the cooler off, unplugged the headers, cleaned up the old thermal paste, applied Coollabs Liquid Ultra, plugged all the stuff back in, put that badboy back together.

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I'm thinking about getting a Ryzen 1600X but it doesn't come with a cooler. Would it be a bad idea to take the cooler that came with the i5 4570 I bought in 2013 and use it for the new Ryzen CPU?

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g-guys is it okay if the fan is that close to the memory

>>61392020
Why would you need to do such a thing? Was it cooking itself?

>>61392028
Two different kinds of sockets, it wouldn't even work in anyway lad.

how much longer till the market will be flooded with cheap GPUs?

>>61392031
It's fine.

>>61392028
Why do you fucking autists pretend the 1600 doesn't exist? Why does everyone want the 1600x?

>>61392031
what motherboard, ram, and cpu cooler is this?

>>61392031
Looks hilarious, 10/10. Would work fine.

>>61392059
Because the X makes it better.

>>61392064
Asus - STRIX B350-F GAMING ATX AM4 Motherboard
Corsair - Vengeance LPX 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-3200 Memory
Noctua - NH-D15 SE-AM4 140.2 CFM CPU Cooler

>>61392085
I think it will be fine anon

>>61392085
Nice meme ram.

>>61392096
why?

>>61392059
th-the x m-makes it go faster, due to the x holes.

>>61392103
Don't worry, he's just jealous of not having enough money to actually buy meme ram. To be honest I'd say your Cpu Cooler is more of a meme than anything.
>Noctua
>3000% more cost
>1% improvement
huehuehue

>>61392034
Nah I just wanted it to run a bit quieter.

>>61392145
Well congrats on killing a 1080. I'd sell the parts on ebay and buy a new one, but I've never bothered to look at the prices of such things.

>>61392031
No, it might suck up your RAM and blend it.

>1080ti's selling for £790

God I hate you mining faggots so much.

>>61392142
What air cooler would you recommend? D15 has some of the best thermals from comparisons I've seen.

>>61392182
this

I'm incredibly and visibly mad right now. Like pissed off
Why the fuck do i have to suffer just because some fags want to mine some meme currency

>>61392182
>reeeeee my Gayming needs >:(

Are Noctua low noise adapters worth installing?

>>61392185
The OG - Cooler Master 212 Evo.

>>61392208
Probably depends on the fan. I put some on my Phanteks 4pin fans and they only dropped the RPM at lowest by like 90rpm.

>>61392185
D15 is the way to go for air coolers. Only downside the fuckhuge size of them. Got one myself and it does just fine, but tbqh am looking at a liquid AIO cooler.

>>61392238
tbqh I agree with this.

except I am too scared of liquid coolers

>>61392193

I was just about ready to go for a 1070 and was debating holding off and saving a little for the 1080ti, and then the prices rocketed. Bastards.

>>61392193
Stop being poor John.

>>61391438
Thank you. Even if I want to overclock, is 650 enough? My train of thought was the more power wattage I can get with a power supply, the more leeway I have as well as increasing the lifespan if it never gets to full load (Feel free to call me retarded because I truly don't know)
Full tower for more air flow even if its unnecessarily big, I don't have spacing problems. Just want this rig to last long and be very clean/open

>>61392254
Am holding off a liquid cooler because am scared the thing will leak, even though I am hearing good things about the higher market ones.

>>61392257
They've been this price forever, what are you talking about?

>>61392059
gigahertz lmao

>>61392275
yeah I also heard that too. don't cheap out on that stuff.

I'm just too autistic for that kind of stuff

>>61392284
I think they did rise a bit in price not as much as the other main cards they use though.

>>61392257
Nah 1070s and 1080s haven't been hit as hard because people realized they could get two 480/580s for the price of one 1070/1080.

>>61392441
>1080s haven't been hit as hard
Well memed my man

Do B350 motherboards work with 3200mhz ram? Support for them is up to 2667
And X370 boards only do 2933

I'm confused

>>61392453
Just realized you were talking about the Ti and not the regular 1080. Disregard that, I suck cocks.

>>61391916
So basically you cuted on the GPU, the rest seems the same. I dunno, perhaps investing in a better GPU so it will last longer...

i must be retarded because the io shield is fucking impossible to get in

>>61392576

1) Push into slot on case
2) insert mobo into case
3) J-J-JAM IT IN!
4) PROFIT!

To be fair some cases need a silly amount of pressure applied on the mobo to make it line up with the I/O shield and mounting holes (so don't be a noodlet).

>>61392215
maybe 4 years ago.
outperformed by cryorig h7 and be quiet! pure rock.

>>61392274
even if you overclock you won't go past 400w.
>more airflow meme
just get midtower and some good fans instead.

>>61392648
oh my god it's fucking in it feels so good

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Do you ever put the OEM stickers on your cases? The little Ryzen sticker actually doesn't look half bad, and both Seasonic and Noctua's are fucking made of metal or some shit.

But I'm afraid any stickers at all would look tacky.

>>61392853
How will women know you've got Ryzen if you don't show the sticker?

>>61392853
Of course they look tacky on a case

>>61392706
Saving space isn't my goal though, and more fans adds more potential sound
I'd prefer my PC to have a ton of space even if it's more than I need
Not that I don't value your advice, we're speaking from different goals though

http://www.lg.com/us/monitors/lg-24MP59G-P-gaming-monitor
Is this good? Programming\Casual gaming, also poorfag, so not more than 150$.

http://www.lg.com/us/monitors/lg-25UM58-P-ultrawide-monitor
Although this one looks so sexy, especially with some tiling window manager like i3. Also is it worth to pay twice the price of 25" to get 29"?
What do i get?

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>>61393531
>>61393531
>>61393531