Is online searching of computers even possible?

All of the points above of course assume the user has an up to date OS, uses a firewall, a virus / malware scanner and is not a complete retard opening random email attachments e.g., you get it.

File: neuman.jpg (45KB, 400x400px) Image search: [Google]

45KB, 400x400px

>>61333682
*unless you can intercept and manipulate internet traffic at ISP level..... oh, right they already do this.

*unless you can push "updates" to the users software.... oh, right they can do this, too.

*unless are a country that is known for putting spyware in operating systems or have information exchange contracts with one that does.... oh, right this is also a thing.

*unless you can just pay (gag-order) developers to put spycrap in the software they make... aw, you get already, maybe?

>>61333682
>Or to say it more clear: Unless you are basically planing the next 9/11 or are the leader of ISIS / a high ranked politician of a superpower etc.

Too young to remember Stasi? They were so obsessive they took samples of clothes for the scents and smells of people.

>>61333791
I'm not saying they don't collect as much random data as they can and I'm not saying they have a lot of data somewhere at the NSA.

What I'm saying is: Wouldn't everyone pritating software e.g. already have received fines if they really could use this data efficiently and for low profile cases? Wouldn't everyone buying some weed on the darknet already been caught? This is obviously not the case, so?

>>61333828
This is a bullshit comparison. I'm specifically asking for ONLINE searching of computers, not manual stuff.

>>61333844
The mindset is the same. If a government has the ability to do something, they usually will. You already stated the law is sufficiently vague for all sorts of fuckery to be legal. The legal and moral justification already exists. Searching a computer remotely is vastly easier than manually collecting evidence on site. Do you trust your government?

>>61333682
You gave them permission under the TOS when you installed proprietary software, such as Microsoft's Windows 10.

>>61333882
>If a government has the ability to do something, they usually will.

My point is that they don't. Do you think the whole Russia shit in the US would be so vague and complicated if someone actually HAD the data to show which side is wrong?

>Searching a computer remotely is vastly easier than manually collecting evidence on site.

This is exactly what I'm talking about: From what I know technically this is NOT true. How would they want to do it? What you do is just ASSUME they have some magic tech that can do all this stuff, you provide no evidence or cases were it was ever used.

>>61333911
Stasi: "Hello Microsoft, we'd like the encryption keys, and access to Anon's computer. He's been criticizing the refugees and thinking for himself. Clearly a criminal, and it's legal for this "

Microsoft:"Sure, care if we suck dicks before hand?"

>>61333844
>pirating
it's a copyright violation, not exactly a crime. the copyright holder is after you, the state not so much.

the scary thing is, you do something "bad" and get on a list. even if you don't land in jail or before a court, this could affect your life in various means without you knowing about it.

>weed
but haven't various darknet shops been raid? obviously there is more value in going after those selling instead of those buying.

Could we for one second talk about hard facts here? There is always this talk about muh segred guhbernment agencies, muh segred backdurrs, muh big brutha shit but none of this has ever been shown the be used for anything other than earning more money by selling your data to companies that want to adjust their products and ads to the data.

>>61333911
Lel...the DNC never let the FBI touch the DNC servers. The DNC hired outside consultants that "assured" the govt and public the hacking came from Russia.

>>61333954
*until the shtf

>>61333942
>>61333943
If this was true they would not only go for the drug sellers e.g. but for everyone involved. Why wouldn't they if it's so easy according to you?

Wouldn't half of 4chan be convicted? Also: Wouldn't e.g. every terrorist and every radical be in jail?

>>61333969
That's not the point, the point is IF online (!) searching of computers would be possible / easy than they would have SO much incriminating shit about everyone they want to get rid of that it would be fucking easy for them to impeach Trump e.g., or catch terrorists, or arrest the pedophiles postking kik threads on /b/.

>>61333954
>>61333979
I'm NOT saying it is not wise to build a bunker if you have money and time. WW3 (or a simple tornado) might be there one day. I'm NOT saying you should not protect your computer from being an trojan infested hacker's delight. Only thing I'm saying is that so far there have been no cases or any proof that those deep big brother fears we have for a very legit reason are actually true. I mean damn, our government is not even able to catch prevent their own systems to get infested. There was a hack attack on the Bundestag a while back which left a lot of systems unusable. And it seems this was done by a small hacker group, not even governments.

To me it seems more likely they are technical imbeciles PRETENDING to be able to do stuff to scare their enemies.

>>61333993
Usually they DO go after networks and try to get everyone involved so this point you simply got wrong.

>4chan
Shitposting maybe already illegal in canada and recently in germany too but in general this isn't exactly something you'd go to jail for.

>terrorist and radical
now... what if there is simply no desire to have them in jail?... you can always ask /pol/ on this particulat matter and for little red pills.

File: 1497524419725.jpg (44KB, 347x375px) Image search: [Google]

44KB, 347x375px

>>61333682
>The idea is that they find a way to introduce a remote forensic software viá infecting a download on the fly and from that point on they can read out every activity on the computer, make screenshots, read the files, log keystrokes etc.
Windows 10 can do that easily and Microsoft is always compliant with governments, why you think they willingly leave backdoors in their software?

Your internet traffic has always been sniffed, because ISPs are obligated by law to keep logs for at least 2 years in Europe, or for undetermined periods of time if your activity is suspicious, probably everyone on this board falls under this category already.

Terrorism is just an excuse, they could ban the sandniggers and the koran at once and terrorism would cease to exist in Europe immediately. They want control on our lives, that's the true goal, they don't like the idea that people can have personal views different than what they want to impose.

>>61334068
>Usually they DO go after networks and try to get everyone involved so this point you simply got wrong.

They go after the providers, not the users, and they tend to need years for it, which shows that a lot of effort is needed.

>>61334119
>Microsoft is always compliant with governments

Again: Might be true for high profile targets, but do you really think MS just gives out your whole compuiter activity to all governments on earth?

>Your internet traffic has always been sniffed, because ISPs are obligated by law to keep logs for at least 2 years in Europe
Not true, the ISP's in germany started actually doing this only this month e.g.

>for undetermined periods of time if your activity is suspicious, probably everyone on this board falls under this category already
This still doesn't answer the question of online searching of computers. I did never ask if logging of online activity is possible, that is out of the question and a different topic.

>>61333682
A lot of people already have the spyware on their computer, it's called windows 10.

On linux computers I'd magine they have a harder time though.

>>61334150
>to all governments on earth
I'm talking about Germany and yes MS gives remote access to European authorities if they make legal request for it.

>Not true, the ISP's in germany started actually doing this only this month e.g.
There is a law that has been applied for ages, I'm not talking about the recent stuff. It's mandatory for all ISPs based on EU territory to keep logs for 2 years. Just because you don't read about it in the news it doesn't mean that law doesn't exist.

Wouldn't VPN encrypt and garble your traffic at the ISP level? Isn't that why China (one of the most intrusive governments in the world) is banning VPNs?

>>61334119
>he thinks banning the koran would reduce terrorism

Lol

>>61334150
>effort is needed

Now, do you know what I'd do if I was a evil goverment? I just order someone to give me what I need and if I don't get it, someone will have a bad day and it won't be me.

For example an IT company. I just tell them to give me X and they'd have to do it. Why should I even care about how much "work" there is involved for this? They have to employ new people for my request, buy new hardware? Who cares, the market will deal with it, optimize it, automate it and get more efficient.

Last but not least, how do you know they "need years"? Don't lie, you don't know. They could just take they time watching (the network) after getting all the evidence, they could already have replaced the criminal and have converted the site into a honey pot.....
you get it, do you?

>>61334150
>Do you really think microsoft just gives it your whole computer activity to all governments on earth?
They already give it all to the NSA and Five eyes. It wouldn't be suprising if germany gets their data too.

>>61334170
see
>>61334150
>Do you really think MS just gives out your whole computer activity to all governments on earth?
Do you think they are able to collect and transfer those amounts of data which are likely to be more than 1gig a day per user?
Dou you think they collect your gig along with thousands of other users, transfer it to MS, they transfer it all governments and then 10000000 researchers go through all the data to find something usable? How? Technically how?

>>61334202
>legal request
which assures it is only used for high profile cases, just like I said

>There is a law
yes there is a law in place for a long time, but read it: ISPs got a long time to evaluate and prepare on saving this data, to get the neccessary hard- and software etc. this period was extended multiple times and ended this month. NOW they actually do it. And again: Not the point of the thread.

>>61334225
Yeah you would be a really shitty government. One whistleblower and you would get your shit pushed in.

>Last but not least, how do you know they "need years"? Don't lie, you don't know. They could just take they time watching (the network) after getting all the evidence, they could already have replaced the criminal and have converted the site into a honey pot.....
you get it, do you?
Yeah that's why every pedophile in the world already got arrested... not.

>>61334218
>Nobody acknowledges this point

>>61334223
>implying ti doesn't
the average goatfucker doesn't even know how to open a pdf file.

>>61333993
>Wouldn't half of 4chan be convicted?

Nevermind half of 4chan. I doubt there's a single person in the entire country who is squeaky clean. Anyone could be disposed of. It would be modern-day inquisition.

>>61334260
No only this point, there are many more TECHNICAL propblems with "just" online searching computers or "just" tracking all online activity.

That is exactly what I'm saying: As far as I know tech it's NOT AT ALL EASY.

>>61334274
>As far as I know tech
there is your problem. you don't know enough.

>>61334274
Here's the thing: it's easier to convince someone to open their door than it is to pick a lock. They have obviously convinced Windows to just give them a skeleton key, as it was pretty much built explicitly for data mining (which is why it was free). Mac is questionable, with how much shit gets stored on iCloud. Linux seems less likely, as Linus is a bit of a dick, and doesn't seem to care for governments. That said, if they convinced him to build something into the kernel, then yeah, Linux too.

>>61334250
>only used for high profile cases
why would a "legal" request be limited to high profile cases? a request is a request, regardless of the content if the request is legal then MS must comply or they'll be fined. Stop pretending to be retarded.

>NOW they actually do it
Again, no. This law has been APPLIED for years since the internet became a thing:
https://security.stackexchange.com/questions/17279/what-are-the-laws-regarding-isp-recording-ip-addresses-how-would-they-know-who
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telecommunications_data_retention#European_Union

>On 15 March 2006, the European Union adopted the Data Retention Directive, on "the retention of data generated or processed in connection with the provision of publicly available electronic communications services or of public communications networks and amending Directive 2002/58/EC".[10][11] It requires Member States to ensure that communications providers retain the necessary data as specified in the Directive for a period of between 6 months and 2 years

>The Directive covers fixed telephony, mobile telephony, Internet access, email, and VoIP. Member States were required to transpose it into national law within 18 months{U+2014}no later than September 2007. However, they may if they wish postpone the application of the Directive to Internet access, email, and VoIP for a further 18 months after this date. A majority of Member States exercised this option. All 28 EU States have notified the European Commission about the transposition of the Directive into their national law.

>>61334292
Give me some facts then, instead of big brother fears (which are legit but not proven yet).

Even Vault 7 showed that yes, the CIA has the tools for stuff like this but no, it is not easy and it can't just be used on every user in a country that ever looked suspicious.

They documents clearly state the manual injection is needed, a prepared hardware piece is needed or a very specific trojan that can be used only a few times before it is detected, and therefore can't be used in the future.

>>61333682
Short answer: yes, possible.

To expand: malware authors can already gain complete access to people's PCs. Write it with the right payload, and you could get it to search files on the hard drive(s) for whatever content it is you're after: proof of ISIS affiliation, whatever.

Intelligence agencies are also known to do insane amounts of research on OS exploits, and if they find any that no-one else knows about, they'll stockpile them so they can use them for stuff like this.

So yeah, they have the means to do it, by and large. It's possible to work around it to a certain extent, keeping computers airgapped - though people have found interesting ways around even that.

File: 234t2wrgh.gif (348KB, 500x281px) Image search: [Google]

348KB, 500x281px

>>61334301
>Linus is a bit of a dick

>>61334313
>Since the internet became a thing.
The internet has been around for longer than 11 years, anon.

>>61334329
But that logic doesn't flow on Linux, as you would need to allow the install by entering in your sudo password.

>>61334331
Not for normies. In 2002, I was the only kid in my classroom with a PC. It became a "thing" in the sense it became mainstream.

>>61334313
http://www.zdnet.com/article/germany-aims-to-store-all-users-browsing-data-but-court-says-its-breaking-eu-law/

>>61334343
>In 2002 I was the only kid in my classroom with a PC.
Do you live in Brazil or something? Everyone in my neighborhood had RoadRunner by 2002. The only people who didn't have computers at home were super poor.

>>61334329
From what you know, wouldn't this still require so much effort that you could only do it for high profile cases? I still don't see how the german government's claim that they will do large scale online searching of computers is feasible.

>>61334339
Linux is kind of an edge case; it's relatively rare in home PCs. But even still, it's not perfect. Better than Windows, but impossible to say with absolute confidence that it's immune to break-in.
>>61334369
Depends on the exploits they've got; theoretically possible for something to be rolled out en masse relatively easily, but for various reasons it'd still only really be worth doing if you're looking for something major.

>>61334315
>some facts
re-read what was already posted in this thread. What can be done, will be done. It's as easy as this. You already showed you don't know your tech, so at this point you simply have to believe it when I say it's possible (because I know it is) or learn about it yourself.

>>61334417
It would have to be linked to some other software you install, such as a FF update or a Linux kernel.

>>61334420
If it is so easy why are there so many drug dealers & pedophiles on the web?

>>61334368
Central Europe, it just wasn't a thing. Kids liked consoles more, personal computers were seen as a thing for offices and stuff like that.

>>61334441
Well, when you look at shit like Operation Fast and Furious, where the government lost track of guns that were given to the cartel explicitly for the purpose of tracking them, you begin to realize that the government may not be as intelligent/efficient as they could be. In fact, one could argue that they are pretty inept.

>>61334441
>why are there so many drug dealers & pedophiles on the web
ask /pol/ about it. No seriously do it.

>>61334447
I have a German crashing at my place at the moment. She had never used a microwave before visiting. Why are those so rare in Europe?

>>61333682
they control the wite that leaves your house
you wanted notepad++ installer? you got notepad++ installer + their custom made trojan.
Unless you check signatures on everything you install and download you might already have it installed...
they could even inject it as a pdf exploit or something like that...

btw it's no effort for them - there are tools that can inject it on the fly

>>61334430
Probably true, but I personally wouldn't bet my life on it being impossible to install malware on Linux without compromising a software update.

File: 3zthth.png (197KB, 301x309px) Image search: [Google]

197KB, 301x309px

>>61334458
>REEE THEY ARE TRYING TO NORMALISE PEDOPHILIA
>REEEEE THEY WANT TO DRUG US ALL

You forgot your hat.

>>61334471
>custom made trojan
That's the point. You would need to set up the fake download, you would need to make the user download and install it without the scanners on the computer detecting it, and then you would need to have it running / sending out data without getting caught by heuristics. Yes, easy for a specific user, very hard for the broad masses. And we aren't even talking about how hard big data transfer / analysis can get here.

File: 1482702469711.png (226KB, 900x969px) Image search: [Google]

226KB, 900x969px

>>61334462
There's a misconception that food cooked in MW becomes toxic or even radioactive.
Personally, I would eat even a burger cooked on the hot cover of a nuclear power plant turbine.

>>61333682
Isn't that somewhat similar to what shodan does?

>>61334462
>>61334496
I am from germany and can tell you why we don't use them: Because they are big and ugly and food made in them tastes like shit.

>>61334496
Is this also why Germany has abandoned all it's Nuclear Reactors for "green energy?" I mean, they built those power plants, and never even turned them on?

Sometimes I think Europe is a little ahead of the curve, intelligence-wise. Then they pull shit like that, and I realize that they are just as fucking dumb as Americans, if not worse.

>>61334501
Not really, they are actually talking about reading all you data, all your keytrokes, screenshot what you are doing etc.

>>61334505
Well, she likes it enough to where she plans to pick one up when she heads back.

>>61334518
I'm glad you have found a girl polite enough to not tell you how shit your food tastes.

>>61334512
I dunno, I find it hard to believe anyone is dumber than Americans.

>>61334528
She actually uses it herself to cook shit like bacon, rather than cooking it on the stove (which I prefer).

>>61334505
I am from Germany and not only did my Parents have one of the very first comercial models of microwaves from about 40 years ago, literally every household I visited had one either a stand-alone or integrated in a electric oven.

Are you a poor east german or something?

>>61333682
First of all: Please deliver the source where you read about this.

But concerning the point of feasibility:
I think it is.
All they need is read-write access on your packets and a cert agency that signs them certs for a couple of domains.

All they'd have to do is:
1. Wait for you to start an TLS connection to a server that they have a signed key-pair for.
2. Do a man-in-the-middle attack on you, telling your browser that they are the server while telling the server that they are your browser.
3. Tell your browser to encrypt the connection with their public key.
4. Get the public key from the server that you are trying to connect to.
4. Get requests from your browser -> decrypt them -> change/read them -> encrypt them with the servers key -> pass them on to the server
5. Get answers from the server -> decrypt them with the servers public key -> read/change them -> encrypt them with their private key -> pass them on to you
They now got complete read/write access on your channel despite TLS
Now they just need to wait for you to download an executable to give you their spy ware instead.

They certainly can *read* your packets by going to your ISP, so I assume they will also be able to spoof them.
I don't know however if they can really get signed key-pairs for arbitrary domain names. Maybe they can somehow force some german cert-authorities into signing it for them.
They obviously won't need the whole thing with the keys if you download software without TLS.

File: IMG-20150730-WA0002.jpg (51KB, 600x599px) Image search: [Google]

51KB, 600x599px

>>61334540
>microwave bacon

>>61334562
Talk to her about it. I don't care for it; I was just given one of those bacon-microwave plates as a housewarming gift once.

>>61334556
http://www.zdnet.com/article/police-get-broad-phone-and-computer-hacking-powers-in-germany/

sadly the mainstream media here played it down

>They certainly can *read* your packets by going to your ISP, so I assume they will also be able to spoof them.
Even though I'm not that deep into the stuff I think I understand the process you described and think it is entirely possible. But: Once the trojan reaches your computer it would again need to be very specific to not get detected. Like a "use once then throw away" trojan, otherwise the scanners would update soon. And there still would be the problem of getting around heuristics. As soon as the trojan would start to send stuff like screenshots to a server the pattern should be obvious I guess?

>>61334562
>put bacon in microwave
>1200W and timer at 8 Minutes
>point one Minute popping sounds can be heard
>point two Minutes heavy sizzling sounds
>point three Minutes suspiciously silent but everywhere that delicious bacon smell
>point four Minutes the bacons fat ignited and starts burning in red flames
>four Minutes and five Seconds the flame turn violet, it's plasma now
>five Minutes plasma melted the microwave, fire everywhere, operator dead, neighbours in panic, but god that delicious bacon smell everywhere

>>61334505
>Because they are big and ugly and food made in them tastes like shit.
It tastes different, I won't deny that, MW acts on water molecules inside the food, unlike hot air ovens. Food boils from the inside. The design depends on the brand really, you can find some small cute ones if you search, even though they won't be powerful as the big ones.

>>61334710
>Food boils from the inside
Common misperception. Just as an experiment, try microwaving a frozen hotdog for like 35 seconds. Outside will be luke-warm. Inside will be frozen.

>>61334681
PORKCHOP SANDWICHES

File: 1488704775048.jpg (10KB, 300x168px) Image search: [Google]

10KB, 300x168px

>>61334681

>>61334731
depending on the model it usually goes on direction and the plate turns. thus, the center of the plate usually gets the most energy.

try a block of butter, it usually starts to liquify from the center.

>>61334795
Mate, whatever I do, every microwave I've ever used has heated everything from the outside in.

>>61334795
Mythbusters literally stuck a holiday ham in a microwave, and left it on for like 3 minutes. At least when dealing with solids, it cooks from the outside in.

File: Miele.jpg (19KB, 564x423px) Image search: [Google]

19KB, 564x423px

Since OP was right - online searching of computers of broad masses is impossible - this is microwave thread now.

Look at this badass motherfucker over here.
Miele Contour Line M6012 - it comes with 11 effective auto-cook and five auto-defrost settings!

>>61334615
>Even though I'm not that deep into the stuff
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-enHfpHMBo4
This video explains it pretty good, in case you are interested.

Also thanks for the article, I actually didn't hear about that yet.

>Once the trojan reaches your computer it would again need to be very specific to not get detected. Like a "use once[...]
Yea and as far as I know this is actually one of the problems they have. But (and I really don't know much about malware to be honest) I think it takes malware-scanners a couple of month to get stuff that is in the wild onto their blacklists. So I think as long as they only use it on a couple of people they should be able to get away with it for some time.
Btw the method I described earlier is not really easy to accomplish and even harder to do without noticeably slowing down the victims connection.
As far as I know, the Bundestrojaner mainly gets onto systems through e-mail attachments, tho.
The biggest security issue computers have is still the guy that sits in front of them.

>>61334832
Industrial Microwaves are the only way to go. They are more expensive, but they last forever. The cheapo 100 dollar microwaves you can pick up from walmart stop working because of the fucking digital buttons.

Bottom line: if you don't use a knob to set the time, your microwave is shit.

>>61334832
>>61334847
Who cares about that? Does it have a built in webserver with a directory traversal vuln? If not, it's not even worthy of the brand.

>>61334615
>Once the trojan reaches your computer it would again need to be very specific to not get detected
NSA's got a library of these things that they can match. Since they already know your user agent and probably more, it's an easy task for anyone in a privileged network position to choose something that won't be too obvious.
>watch out for those browser crashes at browser shutdown

>>61334861
This is why one uses a spoofer at all times, bar none, as well as operating on a Linux Machine. They would need to staple it with software upgrades in order to infect a Linux user that knows his stuff. And god help the company that gets caught doing that.

>>61334874
>staple it with software upgrades
Oh, like Heartbleed?

>>61334836
Bundestrojaner only works on windows.

>>61334948
Bundestrojaner only works on retards.

File: 6075002333_67aa25d7d6[1].jpg (144KB, 500x375px) Image search: [Google]

144KB, 500x375px

>>61334795
According to this article, you can actually see where your microwave concentrates its beam, using appalams.

http://www.evilmadscientist.com/2011/microwave-oven-diagnostics-with-indian-snack-food/

>>61334615
Malware detectors have to be told what is and isn't malware. Therefore there's many ways to prevent them from being detected.

These would probably be packaged together with software updates. The amount of data isn't nearly 1GB, it's some numbers and words, few bites per people at most if the algorithm is properly written.
This isn't tinfoil hat shit, they CAN do it, and if they said they will then you can bet it will happen.

>>61334315
You assume the German government is going to use a software exploit or software backdoor, but it would be far easier to just force a hardware backdoor upon motherboard manufacturers. This tech is readily available from both intel and AMD. The only thing you can do about that is to use foreign pc parts, a proxy that users foreign parts, or several foreign routers between your pc and the internet.
>it's never been done be-
China