How Do you know when you've mastered a language?

>>51471980
>how do you know when you've mastered life?

>>51471980
>how do you know when you have mastered computer sciences?
Having a Masters degree on Computer Sciences.

fizzbuzz desu senpai

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When you can operate gentoo using solid binary

>>51471980
When you start dreaming in code.

/thread

When you can shitpost fluently with it.

>>51472189
>/thread own post
when will this cancer end?

After 10000 hours of coding makes you a master. Everything else is just pure joke.

>>51472208
never

/thread

>>51472060
SNAP!

>>51471980
When you wrote it. Beyond that they are always changing (or, you know, dead) and it's thus impossible to master.

>>51471980

When you realize that mastery is impossible, Grasshopper.

When you write the entire language

>>51471980
When you can understand all the data types of the language and can make functions, plus know how to use other's written libraries.
I am 100% serious right now, that's what it means knowing a language, is easy shit even dumb people can manage, don't make too big of a hype out of it

>>51472951
>Beyond that they are always changing (or, you know, dead) and it's thus impossible to master.
Oh my unfilial son! Common Lisp spec last changed 21 years ago and it got new major implementation just this year.

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>>51472953
This.

When you stop googling it mid-coding

>>51472489
Never ever

/thread

Only when you wrote the language yourself desu

>>51473316

But Bjarne Stroustrup only rates himself an 8 out of 10.

>>51472988
Like I said, DED!

>>51471980
When you understand its limitations and don't try to make the language do something it wasn't really designed for.

What can I do to learn java and ruby? I need them for a POO assignment.

>>51474208
You should poo in the loo.

>>51471980
when you build a clock

>>51474218
And after that?

>>51474251
*when you solder a cpu

>>51472929
I exclusively code on snap

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>>51473622
>gets new major implementation earlier this year
>is dead programming language
pick one, you know the drill

The Java endgame begins with custom annotations, goes over Invocation Proxies, sun.misc.Unsafe and ends with byte code manipulation via javassist or ASM.
I don't know about other languages since I spent my whole workday with Java and maybe do some recreational C# and JS.

Lots of chaff in this thread...


But serious answer?

If you can implement your solution for at least five Project Euler problems in your language of choice without using any Google search support, I'd consider that mastery.

It's like natural languages. When you can read most text (code) even advanced stuff without having to look at a dictionary too often.

>>51474875
Bullshit I fucking suck at programming and I've done the first ten Project Euler problems in Java & C. Also five more in C. I might be able to modify C code (UNIX CLI & WinAPI) and throw code to make working software (small programs) understand pointers and that sort of stuff but I am no master. Bullshit I tell you.

I think I am going for some beer.

>>51475769
My best friend at an old job was Mario. Mario was up from southern Mexico on a work visa and was very open about the fact he was here so he can work for 18 years and retire as opposed to 25 back home. He was good people.

Mario was always subconscious about his english, so unsure of what to say or how to put things and constantly asking for advise.

To which I would always respond "Mario, you speak better english then I do."

It's kind of cliche and not exactly a sure sign, but one thing you'll notice about Masters of any discipline, is they don't think they have Mastered it.

>>51474875
I wouldn't use this as a measure of mastery at all. I finished a dozen PE problems during my very first semester in C++ and programming in general. I'm hardly a master

When you realise that the language is a steaming pile of shit, you are on the road to mastery but have not yet reached it.

>>51474875
>>51475769

I doubt very much that either of you smashed through Euler problems without Googling your way through it.

Completing the task isn't the accomplishment - being able to do so without having to Google for help on how to achieve what you want to achieve is the accomplishment.

If the both you actually did so without any reference to Google / SO for help, congratulations, you're more skilled than 90% of people that program as a profession.

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>>51474875
>five PE problems
you could do 100 PE problems in your language of choice and it would have no indication of your language mastery
there are many aspects of programming that wont ever appear in a PE solution

>>51474875
but problems in project euler are not even close to real life problems that youll have to solve at your job

When you can think to yourself without trying to renember the words in your head

>>51472060
>paying to master something you could do for free

>>51477563
I think (my memory sucks I am not sure) the only one I couldn't do by myself was where you needed pascal triangles. I googled how to solve it, found "pascal triangles", got you. I implemented my solution (by myself) in C with pointers, to pointers, to pointers to int that were allocated with malloc(9). It was fucking beautiful! I also discovered memoization by myself, nobody though me that (I am looking at you pointless software patents {some} ), later I discovered how that was called.

>you're more skilled than 90% of people that program as a profession.

I still think this is bullshit, no matter what I will never accept professional are more incompetent than myself, that would be fucking depressing.

P.S. To be fair Project Euler is more about math than programming.

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>>51474875
Something I've wondered about for a long time:

Does it really count as solving the Euler problems if I use a slow, inelegant and generally stupid solution with lots of for loops? Because I can easily solve a lot of them that way without it saying much about any sort of "mastery" of a language's features.

Like, is it missing the point of PE to just get through the problems as quickly as possible, or is it required to think algorithmically about the "best" way to do each one?

>>51471980
When you see the matrix

>>51481030
There is only three ways to solve Project Euler problems elegantly (considering programming ability as a given).

1. Having a PhD in Math.
2. Googling the Math.
3. Doing only the first ones.

>>51473053
pretty much this

>>51471980
When you hate everybody else's code in that language because they aren't using the full capabilities of that language.

when you know how to write a (very) good compiler for this langage with lex&yacc (with optimisation)

when you can contribute to a good compiler project (g++ or clang++ for c++ for example)

>>51471980
When you follow a tutorial to build something in a language that you don't use, then recreate it perfectly from scratch.

>>51473316
Tell that to the guy who made brainfuck

>>51475656
I can read but I can't write.

>>51478852

>Paying for a degree

If you had to do this, you probably shouldn't even bother.

>>51471980

when you can read binary like linus

>>51472169
as opposed to liquid binary?

>>51471980
there is no such thing as mastery when you're learning something new every day.

>>51471980
by dreaming in le code :-DDD

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>>51486561
Exactly senpai

>>51471980
When you no longer feel the need to ask this question.