Is this true?

>>51459766
Absolutely. CS has been dumbed down so much and people just think of it as something that will give them a "quick and easy" way of getting a high paying job after graduation. The truth is that CS major is heavily overpacked and companies are switching over to offshoring massive amounts of work and because of all the supply of programmers, the average pay is dropping like a rock (assuming you still have your job).

>>51459766
Women studies and feminist theory is better than all of those desu.

>>51459766
I'm an English literature major, desu.

>>51459829
That's good, you'll contribute more to the world with your education, computer science is a joke and you can learn to program by yourself.

>>51459766

Yes. Sort of.

A really rigorous CS program is valuable. But that would be wasted on 90% of programming jobs, which are about relatively basic stuff.

The typical CS program only teaches you enough basics to avoid pitfalls (e.g. understanding the impact of nested loops) and instills some degree of normalcy to your coding (e.g. i, j, and k loop variables instead of a, b, c).

I advise everyone to get a math or real engineering degree. If you can't hack that, then get a business degree. Get a CS minor, or skip it altogether.

Unless you're able to attend a top-notch respected university and get a difficult, rigorous CS degree, you're better off being the most computer-capable guy on the accounting team, for example.

>>51459766
Pretty much. CS has been dumbed down because Ameriburgers have convinced themselves they all need to have a CS degree to write Full Enterprise Quality Java, so obviously you have to have a CS degree if you want to ever get a job working for Loltech in Bumfuck, OH. Universities have realised that the average Java monkey would never be able to pass an actual CS course so they've dropped standards so they can push your average /g/ poster through their degree mill.

>>51459816
This. You're guaranteed a job in whatever field you want, because if someone doesn't hire you with those degrees, you can sue them for being sexist.

I would agree with that based on my personal experience.

I studied CS and I'm a decent programmer and a very good sysadmin, but I'm absolutely abysmal when it comes to pure math.

Pure math subjects like mathematical analysis were always a nightmare for me. I don't know why but I think I'm just too stupid for high level math.

Do I have any chance of being hired as a self-taught?

>>51459938

Yes.

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>>51459919
That's why you're a sysadmin like the rest of /g/ who are too dumb to even get an interview at Google. Not that I'm any better.

>>51459938
Yup

>>51459959

Well, I don't work for google but I do work for Amazon for what it's worth.

And sysadmins are often very competent people. Just usually not that great programmers.

>>51459938
Only at places where people have no sense of quality.

I'm a practicing engineer and I would like to go back to school to study CS. I'm well "smart enough" for engineering and I've always succeeded academically.

In any topic you can study it to the most superficial extent possible, and barely scratch the surface enough to pass your exams. This is what 99% of people do. You don't have to be one of those people.

In all disciplines there is a wide variation of ability and knowledge from person to person. It doesn't matter whether other people studying the topic are stupid. What matters is how deep your knowledge is and how ingenious your application of that knowledge can be.

This is true for engineering, mathematics, "real" science, and the humanities. I have met many infantile, stupid engineers, and I have met many ingenious NEETs with no prospects at all. At the end of the day, do what satisfies and interests you while making enough money to live on. Otherwise you'll end up suicidal and uninterested in your career, with no hope for the future and no new fun challenges or opportunities.

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>>51459766

>>51459938
>>51459948
>>51459972
Technically anything above 0% is a chance, even 0.000001%

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>>51459986
>CS degree
>quality

kek

>>51459878
I don't think that's completely fair unless you limit your scope to murrica... A lot of schools in burgerland have had to change their CS curriculums into a for-dummies version of Software Engineering due to people who don't know what CS is about coming in and complaining about the curriculums being too heavy in maths. However most universities the world over still teach CS as what it is, i.e a degree in applied mathematics.

>>51459804
>>51459878

Man sometimes I swear the shit you read on /g/ are from basement dwelling faggots who did fuck all in high school and college and had therefore not achieved anything in life. Like damn I hope no one believes this shit. And this is coming from a guy making 35$/hr as an electrician.

No, a CS master is pretty hard core (albeit very theoretical). I'm doing a masters in CE and followed several CS and mathematics lectures and it's very advanced stuff.

We engineers implement what they come up with. Think of all the RFCs, other open standards and cryptography. They deserve some respect.

>>51460004
Even Google will hire self-taught programmers champ.

I'm sorry you're a mediocre Full Enterprise Quality Java monkey stuck in a boring job doing the same shit day in, day out, but please don't project your problems onto everyone else.

>>51460032
You took the bait friend.

>>51459979
I'd say that the difference between sysadmins and the people who actually create the software and hardware we use is about the same as the difference between janitors who maintain buildings and the engineers and architects who design and build the buildings.

A good architect probably isn't necessarily going to make a good janitor the same way a janitor probably isn't going to make a good engineer or architect.

>>51460032
Sometimes I swear the shit you read on /g/ is from angry underachievers who live in a bubble and believed every line of shit they were fed as a kid. I bet you still believe there's a Permanent Record.

>>51460016

>bait

>real science
Hardly. I was a senior chem major before switching to CS. Undergrad-level chem is easy as fuck. From what I hear, most other hard sciences are easy too. The main exception might be physics.

That said, you're a full fucking retard if:

1. You'd rather spend 5 extra years after graduation pursuing a useless PhD so you can get a shit job in academia rather than doing real work
2. You choose your field because you want other people to think you're smart
3. You can't make a great living doing computer-related work (you don't even need a degree to do this)

>>51460091
You might have a point if Software Engineers were actually Engineers, and Systems Architects were actually Architects.

You know, they were bonded, insured and operated under a professional body?

The fact that they're not tells you that the difference is simply that Software "Engineers" and System "Architects" have a fully enhanced sense of self-worth, but are still fucking up just as much as everyone else.

The reason you look down on Sysadmins is because you don't have any idea what the job entails and if you spent 4 years in school, you must be better, right?

Meanwhile, back in the real world, you're fucking up just as much as each everyone else.

>>51460032
I've got a master's degree in Comp. Eng. and still agree with that guy. CS has become diluted and filled with people who aren't interested in actual CS, but rather a more for-dummies version of Software Engineering and curriculums in all but the most prestigious schools have begun to reflect that. I've seen CS undergrad curriculums without a single course in Calculus. That's just horrifying when it comes down to it.

>>51460100
You can tell yourself that if being several steps down the food chain from people actually making stuff makes you feel too redundant.

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>>51460158
>CS grads actually make stuff
>There is not one single person without a CS degree making stuff

Okay champ.

>>51460049
Whooaa, calm down there fella. No one's attacking you for your poor life decisions, no need to project your insecurities onto someone else.

>>51460172
that code looks fine to me desu

>>51460032
"Don't believe what he says, even though he's in the industry and knows what's going on. Instead, listen to me, who's not in the industry or even related."

>>51460091

Now that's a ridiculous statement. You are aware that sysadmins don't only do maintenance work on already existing systems?

They combine both hardware and software alike to create complex systems. While a programmer might be very good at writing code in a specific language with a specific framework for a specific purpose sysadmins usually deal with new software every day.

For example in my career I've built infrastructures for small to medium companies from scratch. Lets take the small example. It was a website serving online services and into it's setup, or in more specific terms automatic provisioning of virtual instances , went:

* servers running the backed
* caches
* proxies and load balancers
* logging services
* exception handling services
* monitoring services
* graphing services
* benchmarking services
* automatic downtimeless deployments of new versions of backed
* code revision platform
* code testing and building platform
* development process management platform
* own package repos
* backups
* secure encrypted storage of configurations for all of this
* various glue/ducktape like services for providing various automations like reporting

I could go on. And each of those things was usually built using multiple pieces of software connected together in ways that are possible to be deployed without almost any manual work.

This is not easy stuff. The fact that you think sysadmins only do maintenance work makes me think you don't even work in IT, or haven't worked in IT yet.

I feel like I'm wasting my time in community college.
The CS transfer tracks are all hard math, with almost no computer-related classes and I just want to write fucking software.
My department counselor didn't even understand the difference when I told him I wanted to lean toward SE and not suffer through another 2 years of math prerequisites before I'm even allowed to take calc.

>>51460222
>I just want to write fucking software

then do it fuccboi

>>51460123
I wasn't referring to Software Engineers and System Architects specifically. The "engineers" and "architects" in my idea are pretty much everyone who works in actually designing and implementing systems, including CS and Comp. Eng. people like myself.

The reason why I look down on sysadmins is because their job is, like janitors, to maintain things made by other people rather than actually creating things for other people to run. It's one thing to mop the floors or install software and another to ensure that a building is structurally sound or that access times for a database scale well with the size of the database.

>>51460172
>Somebody with a degree writes bad code
>So everyone with the same degree must also write bad code
Well meme'd... Well meme'd...

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>>51460222
>I just want to write fucking software

>>51459766
it should read, "CS is for people too autistic...."

>>51460238
>maintain things made by other people rather than actually creating things for other people to run

Shows what you know.

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>>51460172
Is this real? Where is that code from?

>>51460285
It's the URL generator code from pomf.se.
No wonder he shut his site down, he literally ran rm -rf on a production server.

>>51459766
It's true, and you should also add "and Programming", since CS != programming.

>>51460217
Once again it's still putting things together from pre-built systems that use standardized interfaces rather than creating whole new systems and interfaces for them to work together with other systems.

Also, engineers don't work with a single language and haven't done so in many years. Knowing and being able to effectively use several languages is a pre-requisite for pretty much all development jobs. The only people who could get away with being specialized on one thing were the mainframe people, but they're a dying and almost dead breed these days. Only reason why people even bother to learn mainframe systems these days is because of cheap management not wanting to throw away the multi million dollar investment their precursors made in the 1970's.

>>51459804
That's largely incorrect, the job market for computer science majors is extremely healthy.

>>51460284
>Job is 95% just maintaining shit
>Someone talks about your job as maintaining shit
>Get super hissy about how complex and difficult this 5% part that isn't maintaining shit is and how big of a part of your job it is
Yes... Now get back to mopping that floo... I mean re-installing Windows on that secretary's machine after she filled it with malware.

>>51459766
true senpai

>>51460238
>The reason why I look down on sysadmins is because their job is, like janitors, to maintain things made by other people
>I literally have no idea what sysadmins do

Okay, we've got it.

>>51460324

Shows what you know. I've written plenty of software in my sysadmin work. Systems often don't glue themselves together just through configuration. Often you have to write interconnecting services.

Also, sysadmins are usually far more competent then programmers and much more responsible considering the impact they have on the infrastructure.

If a programmer makes a mistake and unit testing doesn't catch it then it's detected(usually by monitoring systems) and you just roll back your changes. If a sysadmin fucks up the fallout is usually much wider. The thing is, you usually don't hear about sysadmins fucking up.

>>51460353

Cute samefag.

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>>51460353
>Job is 95% just maintaining shit

>>51460336
Indeed, so healthy in fact that companies are hiring CS workers from India by the boatload. For cheaper wages, of course.

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>>51460003
>real programmers use a magnetized needle and a steady hand.

oh, haha. I understood that reference.

>>51460353
>He thinks Software Engineers don't spend most of their time maintaining the software

So...when do you hope to get your first job in the industry?

>>51460394
Like that's an issue.. Both the USA and India have a healthy job market for computer science majors, nobody is losing out here.

>>51460359
No, that literally is what they do. If they do anything more, they are performing more than what their job title implies. I know sysadmins who program, but they are not expected to work alongside software engineers in creating new software. Usually somewhere in between, writing scripts to launch the software and to maintain it and the systems that run it.

>>51459979
>>51460217
>>51460359
>>51460388
You don't have to lie on an anonymous message board, you know. It makes you look kind of pathetic.

>>51460428
>that literally is what they do

Except it isn't.

Also you seem to be under some sort of delusion that software engineers don't spend a significant portion of their time maintaining software. What, you think bugs just fix themselves? Updates to existing systems are done by the update fairy?

You're chuckle-tastic m8

>>51460428

See >>51460217

That's a small sample of what a sysadmin would manage.

There's also plenty that work with hardware in addition to that which entails maintaining servers and their networks.

>>51460428
>I know people
qualified opinion sighted

please take my test to receive certificate
it costs $2000

it's easy pass and expensive so it's the kind you're used to doing

CS programs used to have a lot of EE courses and was almost considered a double major with EE. CS courses have been dumbed down to rush idiots through the program.

Mathematical research has been dead for the last 50 years. When the only major mathematical breakthrough people can mention now is Andrew Wiles silly gimmick of proving Fermat's last theorem, you know that Mathematicians are doing nothing for society

>>51460453
You really don't know what you're talking about. A software engineer's job IS bug-fixing and developing new features. It's NOT a sysadmin's job to do any of that. A sysadmin's maintaining of software is just making sure it keeps running, basically they don't really have to do shit for well-written software.

>>51460458
I'd take that bait but it's too poor.

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>>51460495
>bug fixing magically isn't maintenance
>fixing bugs isn't making sure it keeps running

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>"REAL science"

Please end this "real" meme.

Using "real" as a prefix (like "real science" or " doing real work") just shows that you don't have any examples for your view so you have to literally make up some bullshit nebulous example you can't even describe.

You can safely assume that anyone who starts going "muh real work" and "muh real science" is just pulling shit out of their ass and vomiting up opinions they read elsewhere online, like our dear OP

>>51460495
http://www.bls.gov/ooh/computer-and-information-technology/network-and-computer-systems-administrators.htm#tab-2

>>51460297
Um, how would you have done a random generator like that more efficiently?

$word = array_merge(range('a', 'z'), range('A', 'Z'));
    shuffle($word);

then output the first x characters?

>>51460359
>>I literally have no idea what sysadmins do
Deny access to others and make the network as unusable as possible while maintaining uptime and security. Be absent when required. Annoy and belittle users.
The list is endless, limited only by the pathology of the sysop.

>>51460516
Thanks, that's exactly what I was saying. Setting up and maintaining systems that run software. Unless you were just shitposting, then next you'll say I said something different.

>>51459853
>computer science teaches you programming
Not this again.

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>yfw it was always too late to enter development
>stuck being a sysadmin because math was too hard

Face it, you only settled for sysadmin because you couldn't get an A in basic data structures

>>51459804
This guy knows what he's talking about.

I live in the Silicon Valley op. What we do here becomes a trend elsewhere.
CS has become an Indians degree for Indian jobs. You just can't compete with them. They will undercut you at every turn. Last thing you want to do is work for a company that finds it acceptable to hire Indians or Chinese. This is the sign of a bad company that will over work you, underpay you, never promote you or give a raise for years, and at the last minute will fire you just to bring you back on contract. CS Is a meme.

>>51460577

I decided to be a sysadmin because I'm a generalist and not a specialist. I prefer to learn a lot about different systems and how they interoperate than to learn a lot about a few. It's a preference.

I also always loved to work with hardware, but nowadays it's all in DA CLOUD.

>>51460529
I'd keep a current maxLength variable that gets incremented when the total number of generated URLS becomes greater than 26*2^maxLength.
26 * 2 because I'm using upper+lower ascii letters.

And for the actual filename generation, I'd generate random A-z letters in a loop until the loop ends at maxLength, and then add 1 to the global generated URL count.

>>51460512
Actually, they're different. Just look at any developer workflow. They start with features, launch, then bugfixes along with continuing to develop features. Unless it's a startup, they don't need to worry whether or not it's "still running", they expect it to be or else a sysadmin would be breathing down their necks asking how come it keeps crashing.

>>51460626
also, a quick check to see if it the currently generated filename doesn't conflict with any other filenames of that same length

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>>51460460
>Mathematical research has been dead for the last 50 years. When the only major mathematical breakthrough people can mention now is Andrew Wiles silly gimmick of proving Fermat's last theorem, you know that Mathematicians are doing nothing for society
so true senpai

Well if getting a six figure offer before even graduating from my bachelor's program was stupid then I guess I was too stupid for engineering.

>>51459866
>business degree

Ladies and gents, take note. This is how you can spot someone who doesn't know what the fuck they are talking about and just wants to sound smart.

>>51460222
You'll be doing more math in engineering than CS.

>>51460652
>They start with features, launch, then bugfixes along with continuing to develop features.
>No but honestly, I literally have no idea what a sysadmin does.

I've already told you, we've got it. You're an ignorant buffoon who wants to pontificate on a subject he's clueless on. It's okay, it's 4chan and you're allowed to do that.

The fuck? I'm doing CS and they're keen on knowing all your formal maths, prop/predicate/first order logic and algorithms.

What the fuck is CS without maths?

>>51460531
>The mean sysadmin is out to get me!
>I'm a special snowflake and the sysadmin is trying to stop me doing my job!

I've come to the conclusion that people need to believe this because the truth is far more upsetting for them: that sysadmins don't know who you are, don't give a shit about you and you're not special just because you're a Java developer. Their egos literally can't handle it.

>>51460719
>what the fuck is CS without math

/g/

>>51460381
>I've written plenty of software in my sysadmin work. Systems often don't glue themselves together just through configuration. Often you have to write interconnecting services.
This is because you let management abuse you, writing systems that you will later be held responsible for when they invariably break, all because Mr. Boss wanted to allocate more of the budget for his "bonuses" instead of hiring a software firm or a senior developer.

>sysadmins are usually far more competent then programmers and much more responsible considering the impact they have on the infrastructure.
Again, a management problem, because they don't want to hire programmers that are expensive, so all your programmers are shit. I can hire retards as aerospace engineers and tell people I'm smarter than they are, too.

Absolute level of intelligence here is irrelevant. Sysadmins' only job is to NEVER fail. Software engineers, on the other hand, are never hired for 24x7 reliability, but rather for creative capability.

>If a programmer makes a mistake and unit testing doesn't catch it then it's detected(usually by monitoring systems) and you just roll back your changes. If a sysadmin fucks up the fallout is usually much wider.
Because that's your fucking job.

I agree with much of what you said, but don't blow up the complexity of the typical sysadmin's job, because it really isn't that hard. Reliability is the key metric, not software produced.

If your interconnecting services are more complex than a simple python application invoked by cron, then you're basically literally sucking management's dick for free.

Kek.

Cs makes all the shit those people user to do their shit

>>51460756
I agree with much of what you said, but don't blow up the complexity of the typical programmer's job, because it really isn't that hard. Lines produced is the key metric, not reliability.

>If your interconnecting services are more complex than a simple python application invoked by cron, then you're basically literally sucking management's dick for free.

>The entire internet is run by Python scripts run from cron

You went too far anon. No one is actually that retarded. Ya blew it.

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>>51460708
No I'm just wondering why nobody knows that's what sysadmins do. I worked as a sysadmin for two years before getting a CS degree and I'm now a developer. Unless sysadmins are now developers and developers are now unicorns, I'm pretty sure sysadmins main duties are still maintaining software and systems that run software.

If you think I'm so wrong can you tell me exactly what sysadmins generally do that doesn't involve the purposely broad terms "maintaining software and systems that run software"? Notice that maintaining software does not mean bugfixes, it simply means making sure the software is running smoothly and scaling hardware if necessary. This also includes networking, user accounts, replacing hard drives, installing Windows, etc.

So maybe I wasn't actually a sysadmin? Because that's pretty much what I did. Maybe I was lied to, but I'm more inclined to believe you're just angry because you were proven wrong so you're being spiteful and ignoring the truth.

Pic related, it's you.

>>51460742
>implying Java developers have egos

>>51460676
true desu senpai

>>51460756

>sucking management's dick

Also known as being a good employer. And I'm a contractor.

>Reliability is the key metric, not software produced.

Yes it is. As is performance, as is visibility, as well as security(though that's harder to measure).

I once had an image of a pyramid of sysadmin responsibilities, can't find it but it went something like.

1. Does it work?
2. Does it work fast enough?
3. Do you know when it doesn't work?
4. Can you diagnose why it doesn't work?
5. Is it secure.

I agree that reliability is the most important, but not the only thing sysadmins worry about.

>>51460802
>No I'm just wondering why nobody knows that's what sysadmins do

Because you made it up entirely in your head?

>I worked as a sysadmin for two years before getting a CS degree and I'm now a developer

And I got a CS degree, worked as a developer for three years and have been a sysadmin for six years.

So by your own metric, my experience trumps yours. You're wrong. Thanks, goodbye.

>So maybe I wasn't actually a sysadmin? Because that's pretty much what I did.

You were a junior/bitch who did all the shitwork while the sysadmins got on with the real work, you mope.

Computer science has basically been dead since the AI winter. Modern programming is a product of computer science, but the modern programmer's business isn't computer science.

>>51460843

>employer
Meant employee, but I like that freudian slip it created.

computer science should be renamed to applied discrete mathematics desu senpai

>>51460801
>>The entire internet is run by Python scripts run from cron
>You went too far anon. No one is actually that retarded. Ya blew it.
I was positing an upper limit on what a sysadmin should ever have to do. Any more then that suggests deficiencies elsewhere that the sysadmin is kekked into shouldering as responsibilities.

If you're developing the servers the run the internet, you are being fucked with your "sysadmin" title. You should be running the department and interfacing with engineers, not maintaining servers.

Then again, "SRE " is tricky these days because outsourced developers are generally very bad. I hope they're paying you a pretty penny.

>I agree with much of what you said, but don't blow up the complexity of the typical programmer's job, because it really isn't that hard. Lines produced is the key metric, not reliability.
No, it's not. Sadly, a lot of programmers think this way, when their 1000-line files could be written in 100 in a much more maintainable way. Stupid motherfuckers can't understand abstraction.

Code churn is a stupid metric, and code analysis is an intractable problem because management will never know what makes good code.

I don't know if this is in all places, but where I learned, computer science was: OOP, Computational Complexity Theory
Automata Theory
is this shit considered real science then?

>>51460626
>I'd keep a current maxLength variable that gets incremented when the total number of generated URLS becomes greater than 26*2^maxLength.

no need for all of that, just set it to 6, and if you ever reach 26*2ˇ6 number of files uploaded, your company is ripe for sale to Facebook or Google.

Although I guess it would count as an optimization if you would dynamically increase the maximum length of the generator any time your total amount of files uploaded to the site reaches, I dunno, 1/10th of the namespace. It could ease up on the random generator, it would have less chance of hitting an existing name.

>>51460957
>science
You mean math desu senpai

>>51460843
>>sucking management's dick
>Also known as being a good employer. And I'm a contractor.
Nice cherry picking. I said sucking management's dick for free. Also known as getting fucked desu senpai.

>I agree that reliability is the most important, but not the only thing sysadmins worry about.
That's great buddy, but I don't see "writing and maintaining a family of software products" in that fucking list. Tell me more about how sysadmin is a superset of the programmer's role.

>>51460937
>I'm just going to shift the goalposts and start using the term "SRE" even though that's even more poorly defined

Look, I'll make this real simple for you: "sysadmin" is a catch-all term for the people who run the layer between the physical hardware the application. Common job titles include "systems administrator", "Server Reliability Engineer (SRE)", "DevOps engineer", "systems engineer" and many, many more. For brevity, and because *all of those jobs are broadly the same fucking thing*, we all just call ourselves "sysadmins" so as not to confuse the normals.

>>51460529

First of all he probably should have used a loop instead of copying the exact same line of code and comment 6 times.

Then he could have a function that checks if an image with the new name exists in the database, and appends new characters until a unique name is found.

Your code should never flat-out give up basic functionality. That's terrible design. What was that nigger thinking.

>>51460753
After having read this thread I decided to stop visiting this shit board. It's full of lying idiots with complexes bantering each other.

>>51460994
>Tell me more about how sysadmin is a superset of the programmer's role.

I never said it is. I'm only responding to your silly claim that sysadmins only do maintenance, when in reality they build, update and rebuild systems of systems of systems.

>>51461009
>First of all he probably should have used a loop instead of copying the exact same line of code and comment 6 times.

It is actually easier to just press ctrl+d to duplicate a line 6 times than to write a loop.

I mean it is extremely lazy but I can sort of justify it... if you don't ever need to change the character length and you just want it to function with minimum work involved, then it is okay.

>>51461003
>>I'm just going to shift the goalposts and start using the term "SRE" even though that's even more poorly defined
Nope, was simply assuming you had a greater role than "sysadmin", which I interpret, being a rational being who expects the mean value, expected you to be some stupid fucking "systems engineer". Sorry for giving you credit desu senpai.

What if I am too stupid for computer science?

>>51459917
>tfw reactionaries actually believe this

>>51461025
>I'm only responding to your silly claim that sysadmins only do maintenance, when in reality they build, update and rebuild systems of systems of systems.
I didn't write that. Some angsty moron wrote that.

I only responded to the part where you (or Anon) claimed non-trivial software development to be one of the responsibilities of the everyday sysadmin.

Why has a thread whose subject is computer science turned into a pissing match between software developers and systems administrators?

You do realize that neither are "computer scientists", right?

>>51461166
Count yourself lucky. You don't think of yourself of smart and decide to get into a career just to prove to everyone else that you're smart and realize years later that you could just be programming for yourself while doing an easy job instead of slaving for a corporation.

>>51461166
computer repair

>>51459766
Pretty much but there should still be some leeway for the fact that some people aren't interested in Engineering, pure Math or the Sciences.

>>51460336

It actually is regardless of all those indian fucks.

The thing is, is it growing or shrinking? Does anyone have some data? Because I can't find shit

>>51461213
What if there is no work of that kind in my area?

>>51461022
>After having read this thread I decided to stop visiting this shit board. It's full of lying idiots with complexes bantering each other.
Consider leaving real life, if liars with complexes bantering with each other is what you seek to avoid.

>>51461208
You mean Knuth, Sedgwick, and Djikstra don't post here?

>>51460394
Companies can't hire foreign workers for less money than american workers.

>>51460427

India by definition is the opposite of healthy, what the fuck are you talking about

>>51460618

CS isn't only programming. For starters, when you study CS you learn how computers work inside out, which is already priceless for some of us.

When it comes to the job market yeah programming is pretty much the main industry and in fact indians are heavily parasiting it but you can't deny that it's very healthy anyway, maybe because indians are shit fortunately

>>51461277
They can if those indians stay in india.

>>51461232
mcdonalds employee

>>51460577
You need both so it doesn't matter desu. I would wager a CCIE is a lot smarter than a software engineer.

>>51461287
>When it comes to the job market yeah programming is pretty much the main industry and in fact indians are heavily parasiting it but you can't deny that it's very healthy anyway, maybe because indians are shit fortunately
That's fine. If you program worse than someone brought up in a 3rd world country, you don't deserve a job.

>>51461304
You mean I can't live a lowly life as a full time janitor?

>>51461288
Didn't know about that. Still, there's a shitload of jobs out there, if you're not autist or retarded

>>51461323

The problem comes when they are half as competent as you at 1/3 the price.

There are companies that don't give two shits about quality replacing their employees for pajeets

>>51461372
>There are companies that don't give two shits about quality replacing their employees for pajeets
Then don't work for them. Problem solved.

Or work for them and change the culture from within instead of standing on the sidelines holding your dick.

>>51461323
This. The real reason companies hire Indians is because they only have shitty programmers in their country.

>>51461328
you can be a janitor at mcdonalds

>>51461396
look you fucking indian shit, you are a piece of crap, a parasite to the tech industry and the first world in general, you are literally a cheap monkey and companies see you as a middle ground between a normal worker and a robot.

you will never be respected as a human being because your only selling point is that you are cheap, enjoy 24/7 humiliation at work. but you are proud of being cheap arent you? yeah you are you indian fuck, thats why i hate you guys actually, i used to think indians are based, but lately i dont even like curry anymore, you are a constant threat to my job, solely because you are half as competent as me at 1/10 the price.

i would actually respect you if you had the same salary expectations as me but only did cheap jobs to survive when really needed and were humble about it and hated your company for it, but no, as sad as it sounds you are literally proud of being a subhuman and you keep deliberately bringing salaries down.

indians shouldnt have access to computers in the first place, they are an invention of the white man and should never have been taken outside of usa and western europe, because now every online learning resource is ridden with that want to pretend they are people, like literally, there are obscure MOOC courses that have 40,000 pajeets on them

>>51461003
Since you didn't reply to my response, at least confirm that you're an SRE. And if you are, please realize that most sysadmins can never be SREs.

>>51461405
McDonald's doesn't have janitors

>>51461417
Just admit you're a worse programmer than Rajesh and all that anger will be gone desu

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>>51461288
I think the TPP or whatever they call it opens the doors wide open, as in no background or credential checks, extended visas...globalist psychopath general. But hey, who can decipher 600 pages of legalese written by lawyers for lawyers. Tech law would be a good field to jump into now. A good understanding of electrical theory can help a shit tier pleb understand the weapons being used to attack them today though. You can't fight what you don't even understand after all. Even then, when you see it for what it is, you will quickly resign. It is a matrix of epic proportions and mother nature will fix humanity before humanity fixes itself. I have a college diploma in Electronics Eng from the 90's but haven't been working in that field for more than 10 years. I just shitpost now.

http://www.lawfulpath.com/ref/sw4qw/index.shtml
>Energy is recognized as the key to all activity on earth. Natural science is the study of the sources and control of natural energy, and social science, theoretically expressed as economics, is the study of the sources and control of social energy. Both are bookkeeping systems: mathematics. Therefore, mathematics is the primary energy science. And the bookkeeper can be king if the public can be kept ignorant of the methodology of the bookkeeping.

>All science is merely a means to an end. The means is knowledge. The end is control. Beyond this remains only one issue: Who will be the beneficiary?

>>51459766
It's not true. The average person in engineering and sciences aren't too different. People say the degree has been dumbed down, but stem in general has been dumbed down

>>51461417
is this pasta? if not it should be, it's fucking hilarious

>>51461477
Yeah, someone copy this shit

>>51461466
>McDonald's doesn't have janitors
Then who cleans the toilets (assuming they get cleaned).

>>51461417
Nice copypasta, but my advising you to take leadership roles in your company so that you can stop that parasitic loss of productivity means I'm Indian how?

>>51461510
The employees

>>51461505
Anon already did. Welcome to yesterday desu senpai

>>51461527
You mean the fucking quarter pounder I just ate was put together by some shit-handed adolescent?

>>51461510
the same people who flip your burgers and take your order.
They take turns.
I think back in the 90s they would also take turns wearing a ronald mcdonald costume for birthday parties.

>>51461323
>>51461345
>>51461372
Think about it this way, if there is a huge amount of supply of programmers (whether straight from your local college or from India), then the company can get choosy. If companies get choosy, they can lower the pay they give to the workers. Everyone is affected in some way or another by this. In short, the pay for everyone in CS will keep on lowering (regardless of your level or how good you are) because there is just too much supply of workers. Also, you think non-technical managers give a **** about quality? They care most is about short-term maximizing profits.

>>51461467
>>51461521

http://stackoverflow.com/a/434562/4534861

it means you are indian because indians are proud of being cheap as the copypasta says and keep bragging about it on the internet which i find kinda degrading but hey

>>51461610
There isn't a huge amount of supply

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>>51461417
>being this butthurt

Look, faggot, if your job is under any sort of serious threat from Rajeesh Punajab then you never had job security in the first place

>>51461610
>Think about it this way, if there is a huge amount of supply of programmers (whether straight from your local college or from India), then the company can get choosy. If companies get choosy, they can lower the pay they give to the workers. Everyone is affected in some way or another by this. In short, the pay for everyone in CS will keep on lowering (regardless of your level or how good you are) because there is just too much supply of workers.
omfg mind blown thanks Adam Smith desu senpai

>Also, you think non-technical managers give a **** about quality? They care most is about short-term maximizing profits.
Sounds like a problem that needs solving. Maybe someone should make an app where short-term faggots get shitlisted.

>>51461472
>CS is not in STEM
Looks like you're dumbed down.

>>51461652

hey pajeet, go back to work, you arent getting paid 1$ an hour to browse 4chan

>>51461676
>reading comprehension
retard

>>51461624
I've seen shitty code like this from all over the world, including USA

>>51461624
it means you are stupid because no one is bragging about being cheap, but of course you'll only read what you want to see because you're either visually impaired or a dumb desu kuck

>>51459766
yup, tried physics, too much work though, now I'm doing CS.
ez life

>>51461686
thats not even a real indian name dick


lol your name literally could be dick lol

>>51461686
look at this asshurt moron acting all threatened desu senpai

>>51461718
P O O I N L O O
O
O
I
N
L
O
O

>>51461580
They wash their hands afterward you tard

>>51461750
yeah keep believing that, kek baka desu senpai

>>51461709

well obviously you guys arent gonna literally say "fuck you i earn half your salary for the same thing" but when you complain about OUTSOURCING and indians show up laughing with shit like "enjoy capitalism" or saying that we should try harder then it kinda gives the impression that they are fucking bragging about it

>>51461624
it takes real talent to write stuff like that in the first place.

linux kernel has pretty shit code, and it needs someone as smart as linus to keep it in his head - but u dont see anyone complaining about it.

i bet that answerer is either stupid or lazy

>>51461795
>it takes real talent to write stuff like that in the first place.
xd

>>51461787
I'm saying that from the standpoint of an employed American software engineer. Americans are still better at it, and will be for a very long time.

>>51461750
Yep, that accounts for all the shit particles flying all over their sleeves, shirts, and faces. Let's trust McDonald's to ensure our safety at their cost.

>>51461287
Indians have been touching every part of the industry, manager positions, networking, development, software, literally every part. One of the few industries not infiltrated is hardware.
It's not healthy unless you're a foreigner willing to take any pay for a visa to stay in the USA. You guys aren't thinking very far ahead.

>>51462020
>One of the few industries not infiltrated is hardware.
>being this ignorant

>It's not healthy unless you're a foreigner willing to take any pay for a visa to stay in the USA.
Foreigners with a visa have to be paid the prevailing rate per the US DOE, you fucking moron.

Again, someone who doesn't know what they're talking about on /g/. Enjoy working for daddy's robotics emporium desu senpai

>>51459766
It used to be an admiral degree. You used to have to know how to derive formulas independently of other formulas. Nowadays it's flooded with imbeciles who think they can go into CS because they grew up with a computer and apparently that makes them an expert on computers. Plug and chug is how they solve problems. Because it's easier to program humans to solve a problem of like variation rather than teach them to think intuitively.

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>>51462291
>admiral

Easiest bait of my life