During the late 1990s and early 2000s, Internet Explorer was the favorite browser of web developers. It beat Netscape at its job and Microsoft implemented a lot of nifty stuff that attracted people to the browser. Web developers, IT guys, etc. all praised it and even dared to say that they did not care about any other browser.
Microsoft had its fair share of irresponsibility by not updating IE significantly for years but why aren't web developers held accountable as well? After all, their job is to use web standards wherever possible and they failed to do that. The IE hell was caused by them. As a matter of fact, they're still doing this by making everything about WebKit and/or Blink.
Web developers have always been fuccbois. I remember always getting told "well you shouldn't be using that browser because (subjective bullshit)" when I complain about how their site doesn't work, so I don't even bother with them anymore.
The problem is that in the age of 8 core processors and 16GB RAM developers think that applications should be run by a web browser, because it can.
CSS is fine as long as the website is readable without it.
Browsers are essentially a sandboxed, platform-independent, virtual execution environment. Browsers can run linux and compile C. It is simple and easy to share programs that run in browsers, because links are very sharable. On the other hand, getting someone to download your binaries and run them is much harder.
>"I have no idea how websites are made" the post
Remember when webpages loaded instantly?
Now you have to wait 10 or more seconds for all the ad/tracking scripts. Even worse is pages that hide the content until everything is loaded.
Sites loaded faster 15 years ago than they do now.
There's nothing wrong with CSS. CSS is just a way to apply styles to more than one document, going without CSS is fucking stupid.
normies have computers that can handle it
10 seconds was being conservative.
Mainstream sites take up to and over a minute on an ipad mini. Then there's the constant freezing and lag.
I dont have an ipad mini so I haven't had that experience.
Right, but I'm talking about loading entire sections of the page before others. Netflix designed something like this to quicken perceived page load times - and they found a 70% improvement.
>After all, their job is to use web standards wherever possible and they failed to do that
What exactly would that look like?
>Hey anon, why doesn't my button look sexy? This isn't going to sell.
Yeah, but it's coded to standards, here, look, RFC-XYZ says so right here
>Yeah yeah, but where are my buttons?
We can't do them and code to the standards at the same time
>yeah well I don't care about standards, I just want my fucking buttons.
No, that's not right, the standards are there for a reason
>You're fired Anon, I have Kumar Bagavahn Patel on the phone here and he says he'll have it done tonight for half of what we paid you to not do it
Doesn't mean shit when webdevs start implementing actual "programs" purely within the browser. Automatically trusting code that is pushed to you from a server, without version pinning or cryptographic verification, is insane.
The problem is that sites assume that everyone is going to use their CSS, and that there is no general way to override stylesheets globally, since most sites have different layout/structure.
bonus fact, I actually had pretty much this conversation with an employer around firefox (scrolling issue, they report (or used to) computed values in authored units while W3C requires the unit to be pixels). I actually had a fix that would work and didn't need a terrible browser-specific hack that's probably broken by now but it required a minor design change so it was a no-go.
Web browsers interpreted standards their own way and many were not standards compliant, including IE. It used to be worse then then it is now. This has to be a troll post since it is so far from the truth it's ludicrous.
I know I still have a Core 2 Quad, but are websites becoming slow as fuck for anyone else? Especially search boxes, I can type my search faster than the letters will appear on the screen. On sites like Newegg and Amazon, the scrolling lags, and it takes a second for a link to register that my mouse is hovering over it. Is this Wirth's Law in action? When I watch Task Manager I see that the CPU % spikes. I don't think it's my RAM because I have 8 GB and rarely use more than 4.
>Mainstream sites take up to and over a minute on an ipad mini. Then there's the constant freezing and lag
Which ones? My dayjob is working on a top 50 alexa US rank site, we test on ipad minis, 5 seconds would be totally unacceptable for load time and >300ms latency for non-IO actions is disallowed as well. This is standard, a third party ranks us for latency/responsiveness and uptime relative to other sites in the same industry and we're about the middle of the pack.
Sure there are, you can write CSS that isn't dependent on structure. This is how like "color inversion" user styles work for people who want to reduce screen glare. Sure things can end up looking kinda wonky but the alternative is what? No CSS? Then everything is going to look wonky, testing becomes a nightmare, you win nothing.
Let's be real. You have to throw more servers when you use Python for anything but metadata handling.
Java is good for compatibility but it's outright disgusting. It will make you good money if you can keep up with new API releases.
I'm a roots guy.
I only use jQuery for $. and append, I frown on frameworks unless they're involved in the back end and you have a good reason, I just want a whole bunch of Ajax calls to a real restful server that serves either json, html or return codes.
About browsers, my battle with IE is about caching. FYI, no-store means "do not store, zero cache", no-cache of means "revalidate every time", revalidate means "revalidate if it's a stale record". IE does no store when the header is no cache, revalidate seems to almost replicate no cache and no store does nothing. Fuck. Which RFC standard did this come out of Microsoft? Oh, that's right, none, either hire devs that read (and write) documentation or stop pretending you're a serious software company.
Confirmed, site is shit. Took 10+ seconds to fully load.
>650 requests on page load
This isn't a JS's fault, it's a braindead developer's fault. No one handling any meaningful level of traffic should be serving unminified files. No one with that much code should be serving unminified files.
> Another idiotic thing is storing static content in databases instead of flat fucking files so you have to wait on database queries on every page load,
Good point. The generator should also implement caching so it does not go over the list again.
Have you benchmarked ASP? It's slower than PHP. And it's already on mono. Most C# webframeworks are either ugly or slow, I had to write my own to get one I liked: gotta be based around http verb methods, gotta have a simple means of getting the userip and user agent, can't process headers unless it's meant to, and of course, gotta go fast.
So my fully implemented backend gets at least 2000 requests a page second. If everyone doesn't mind waiting 5 seconds at most, it could serve a 10000 user website/business easy.
ASP is slow as an old dog like because of how it keeps connections open and keeping connections open might be a good idea if you're.... Streaming? But otherwise it should just close as fast as possible. If you are streaming, a combination of nagle and chunked encoding could work and you might not even need to do write things with connections.
You'll find that IE does not follow that standard. They programmed their browser based on ignorance, or rather for appeasing ignorance. One should not be tolerant of shit developers.
I think web development is in the best shape it's ever been ,in terms of paradigm, for Dynamic content
with JSON\REST apis doing the shit they do I think it's great, because now you can have cachable template pages, get a 50 byte file, and have it fill up like 40 fucking elements or something ...
Nothing terrible about JS i think the implementation by developers is stupid somedays
Sites shouldn't be Full of dependencies, scripts,fancy effects that overall look tacky and make your site seem slower than it really is, or make your site slower,etc., etc.
i think certain things belong in native apps... I think devs ask too much of browsers, and given browser fragmentation fucks a lot of things up, making it 10x harder to do shit
I think the move to the API model has been the smartest thing for the internet, and i can't believe thats not what they've done in the past... It makes it easy to have a dynamic site, but also a non web-site site. (maybe i'm just autistic about native clients)
In the day and age of social media, I think we're stuck with psuedo-dynamic sites at the least (Server Side Rendering, Something like Jade) which isn't horrid. this could generate shit to work on windows 95 if anyone cared to, no JS, no CSS (or maybe css)
The problem is that you're young enough to have grown up with a vastly different web than the rest of us. You don't understand how bad things are, because you've never seen anything else.
>inb4 static sites are dead grandpa
>with JSON\REST apis doing the shit they do I think it's great, because now you can have cachable template pages, get a 50 byte file, and have it fill up like 40 fucking elements or something ...
Right in the fucing garbage. You are the reason webpages take so long to load even on this 80/20 connection.
And you were doing so well, anon.
It's not my screencap, but it is saved from /pol/. You have to visit /pol/ when happenings are happening.
That would explain why software is totally unresponsive and sluggish nowadays -- the term doesn't even mean what it used to.
So I'm just going to rant here without the whining because its not me.
CSS is good and can greatly minimize the size of the html if a external style sheet is used. The problem comes from a combination of CSS frameworks which are completely unnecessary and trying to make every device display exactly pixel perfect representations of the rendering on the web designers favorite browser. The latter will never be accomplished because there are too many variables.
Basically the problem comes down to incompetent devs that don't care. Here comes the excuses. Yes you lazy bitch's I have made and will continue to work on websites(front and back end), all which gracefully degrade and work on every device that displays html. But keep it up, I make a lot of money ripping magic bullshit out of your shitty code bases.
>The problem comes from a combination of CSS frameworks which are completely unnecessary
Literally people have no idea that they can really cut bootstrap the fuck up with minimal to no reprocussions to optimize their site...
CSS frameworks aren't inherintly bad, i think partially devs are lazy