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Who would you hire /g/ ? CS grad or bootcamp grad?

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Thread replies: 167
Thread images: 9

What is worth most today?

A CS degree or a degree from a dev bootcamp like these:

http://www.hackreactor.com/
http://devbootcamp.com/
>>
>>47624518
We only hire top CS grads from specific universities. Everyone else is un-hireable.
>>
i would only hire someone who has GPA > 3.2 and a slight good portfolio
>>
>>47624518

CS degree is useless.

If you're interested in tech go for a degree in robotics/mechatronics/electrical/electronic engineering.

A pure software degree is useless in this time and age.
>>
>>47624537
>>47624550
He must also have very solid social skills.
>>
>>47624518

Go to a bootcamp and you will learn node.js/rails etc.

Then learn actually employable stuff like Java, ASP.NET, PHP etc.
>>
>>47624583
>A pure software degree is useless in this time and age.

pls pls be b8

pls
>>
>>47624587
I hate those unrealistic expectations

>wanted:
>20-25 year old
>14 years of Java enterprise experience
>did nothing but study his whole life but still a social butterfly and natural leader
>has to love unpaid overtime
>be happy with minimum wage
>>
>>47624660
why didn't you start programming at 6 ?
>>
>>47624660
you didn't lead your kindergarten revolution?
you better catch up, society is really advanced these days
>>
What exactly is dev bootcamp? Do they yell at you while you code or something?
>>
>>47624660
Apply anyways.
>>
>>47624692
No, it's where hipsters get taught how to coble together JS frameworks to make some website.
>>
>>47624692
Kekd
>>
>>47624638

I think he is serious.
>>
>>47624713
you kekd?
>>
>>47624692
>What exactly is dev bootcamp?

fancy name for courses, in other countries they are called institutes/lower-level tertiary education
>>
>>47624638
>250 students enrolled in SE/CS
>20 students enrolled in Embedded Systems Design
>at campus 2 years ago
>code monkey population growing factorially

Guess who will have the overall better job satisfaction in the near future.
>>
>>47624692

It's the future bro. Literally.

http://www.hackreactor.com/
>>
>>47624766
maybe in america.

maybe in america
>>
>>47624766

What about CS guys with minors/electives in FPGA, embedded systems and ARM development?

Or do you need a full-blown EE degree to touch anything like that?
>>
>>47624660
As a consultant for a security firm, I can say these are very unrealistic. Also, we love to pick apart these type of people who think they know everything. They are stubborn and unwilling to learn because they know everything there is tho know already. One of our clients, a huge computer firm, wants people with 2-3 years experience, nothing more or less. They know enough to work, but can still learn knew things.
>>
>>47624518

Relevant /int/ thread for European perspective:

>>>/int/40606030
>>
>>47624771

>How much does tuition cost?

>Tuition is about the same as a single >semester at private university: $17,780 >for 12 weeks, 6 days per week, 11 hours >of in-classroom instruction per day.

b-but anon you can learn everything about CS online!

>Resume
>Hack Reactor
>Into the trash
>>
>>47624839
>Tuition is about the same as a single >semester at private university: $17,780
God, America is fucking awful.
Get some decent public universities you cucks.
>>
All that matters is what you know, not how you got the knowledge.

I'm near the end of my CS degree, and some of my peers couldn't program their way out of a paper bag. That said, someone who picks up programming at a bootcamp probably won't have the same appreciation of data structures, etc. as a CS grad. The only way is to actually test them - one good way is to ask them how fast linked list iteration is compared to an array, and why. (If you think they're even remotely similar, try benchmarking it.)

That said, if you really want to do it purely based on qualifications, ECSE + CS is the way to go. Pure CS is useless, Software Eng is ok, but the brightest ones usually double ECSE with CS. (Most sw eng's wouldn't be able to handle the math needed for it, and understanding the hardware in depth is always useful.)
>>
>>47624854
>cuck meme
Fuck off
>>
>>47624766

look at grad rates tho...
>>
>>47624864
Doesn't CS/SE usually come with some CE?
It does on my uni.

Learning to build your own simple MIPS computer was probably my favorite course.
>>
I would only hire someone who uses Gentoo/Arch and knows only C.
>>
>>47624919
So when do I start boss?
>>
Unless you want to roll a dice on your career, you need a degree from a university. Posts telling you that knowledge matters over having a degree are ignorant.

That piece of paper will be the most important thing in your life. Sad that it's this way, but that's the way it is.
>>
>>47624904

Yeah, I knew a guy that worked on embedded syatems witha Cs degree.
>>
As a first-year CS student this thread makes me sad :(
>>
>>47624865
I wasn't trying to offend actual cucks.
Sorry, it's just a funny word I use.
>>
>>47624975
Hey, stop pretending to be me.
>>
>>47624945
How about tomorrow, son? One last thing, can you give me your facebook login details to run a quick check?
>>
bump for CS major tears
>>
>>47624972
Most college grads end up with a whole load of debt, a worthless piece of paper, and no employment prospects. What makes you so special?
>>
>>47624583
What about an MS CS with a concentration in AI?

Is that somewhat valuable?
>>
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>>47624518
bootcamp. millions of grads can't be wrong.
>>
>>47624583
>tech
>electrical
confirmed for b8
>>
>>47624904
Sometimes, but not always. I know at mine the CS course was pretty lacking compared to the ECSE course in terms of computer architecture. e.g. creating your own MIPS CPU was a 4th year elective in ECSE.
That said, our undergrad CS course didn't have a component on kernel programming either, so it was a bit shit. (The ECSE course had an elective on RTOS, which had some similar material though.)

>>47624919
I'm a Gentoo user, but I would say you always want someone who knows a variety of programming languages - ideally one high level / mixed paradigm (e.g. Python, D), one low level / imperative (C, C++), and one functional (Haskell, bonus points for Lisp). Regardless of what language the job requires, knowing both functional and imperative styles has a huge influence on your code.
>>
>>47624741
gtfo of 4chan if you don't know kek retard
>>
>>47624809
> >3 years experience means you can't learn anything
What you really want is a naive whelp you can bat around who doesn't know what's bullshit or not yet. You can just out and say it, were all anonymous here.
>>
>>47625714
are we, though?
>>
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>>47624972
>taking shit posting seriously
>>
>>47626303

bump for CS tears
>>
It doesn't matter since none of you can write decent code anyway. /g/ is for phones and battlestations and to sometimes pretend like you actually know something useful so you don't kill yourself
>>
>>47626460

The edge! It hurts!!
>>
>>47626400

bump for le dank memes

On a serious note go to bootcamp.
>>
>>47626460
>le edgy teenager
>>
>>47624972
Reminder that /fit doesn't lift, /k/ knows little about guns and /g/ knows jack shit about programming
>>
>>47627028
ok kid
>>
>>47627040
le ebin maymays
>>
If you've a portfolio of projects or experience, that will get you better jobs than a degree will

However some places will still bin CVs that have no degrees with them.

Best thing for an inexperienced coder to do is to contract out for a year or so. Doing Drupal sites and modules, helping extend existing websites etc. Heck, even writing HTML emails gets valuable experience.

Money is good too.
>>
>>47627040
>>
>>47626493
>>47626970
truth hurts

>b-but muh fizzbuzz!
>>
>>47627114
>Best thing for an inexperienced coder to do is to contract out for a year or so. Doing Drupal sites and modules, helping extend existing websites etc. Heck, even writing HTML emails gets valuable experience.
Where do you find this sort of thing? I can't even find pro-bono work.
>>
>>47624518
depends on the job.
if it's codemonkey without responsibilities : bootcamp i guess
the real difference between someone with a CS degree and self-taught codes or shitty SE degrees, etc is when it comes to stuff that needs brain
like the boss gives you a task to implement some algorithm doing whatever. the problem is NP hard
the cs guy will probably sit there 1-2 days,comes back to the boss and tells him "sorry, not possible to get any satisfactable result"
the codemoney will start writing the shit for 2 months, optimize it for an other month and then wonder why it's calculates 1 %o in a week.
>>
I would go out and search the streets until I find a homeless man in his mid 30's. I would then offer him a job. Only resort to twenties if they have a certain vibe about them. Decision making would be weighted against women, but not exclude them outright.

In the trash the applications would go after I found my new employee.
>>
>>47627213
Agencies.

I'm in the UK so the jobs market might be slightly different but I can't see the US not having agencies who handle contractors.

Generally you get contracts at all skill levels and the pay rates vary but are generally pretty good.
>>
>>47624864
I've never studied programming at all, my high school doesn't offer it. Can I still go to college for it?
>>
>>47627449
no
>>
>>47627280
>Generally you get contracts at all skill levels and the pay rates vary but are generally pretty good.
I've checked every agency in my state. There are a total of 2 (two) IT related positions. They are both too far away to commute to.

>>47627449
High school doesn't matter at all. Unless it was an AP course, your high school course don't count for anything. So yes.
>>
>>47627545

Get your CV with some digital focused agencies, they'll do the leg work for you.

Be honest about your skill levels, don't forget that working from home is often fine with companies, especially for contactors (means they won't have to prep a pc for you)
>>
>>47624518
>2015-0
>still thinking a CS degree is worth anything
nice MEME
>>
>People think that CS == Programming

I'm mad
>>
>>47629070

It's literally the most useless degree. 10-20 years from everybody will be able to program thanks to codecademy.com and udacity.com etc.

Even graduate level CS courses are freely available on coursera.org
>>
>>47629213
yes, that's the issue these days. It's too abstract and simple meaning that you don't get a secure good paying job. CS was a valuable degree when machines needed experts to writ ecode specific to hardware. Now that any code monkey in a sweatshop can churn out cheap functional code, there is very little room left for an graduate unless they find themselves an unsaturated niche area of CS.
>>
>>47629119
This. CS is a math degree
>>
>>47629274
>CS is a math degree
It's a large subfield of math (that's why it's now disjointed from it) but don't think you know math because you learnt CS.
>>
>>47629213
>10-20 years from everybody will be able to program
Have you ever talked to a stranger about doing anything tech that involves learning on their own? Most people don't give a shit and won't even try to learn something on their own
>>
>>47629274

Math is usable. CS is useless.
>>
>>47629396
If you want to learn how to do efficient computation (like for scientific computation) then CS is gonna be very useful (as long as you don't only focus on it). But the actual CS field has not much to do with programming software and isn't that practical.
>>
>>47629258
>an unsaturated niche area of CS.

There are none.

Most of the low-level embedded stuff can be done by MSEEs and literally ever 14-year-old girl can learn Java, PHP and ASP.NET and other high-level stuff.

CS is useless.
>>
>>47629544
they still exist. There is certain enterprise stuff that requires non standard applications of CS knowledge. They are hard to find and usually only choose the best students from the best programs.

So, yes. You are right. CS is useless
>>
ITT: people who seriously think that a CS degree is learning babby's first java for 4 years
>>
Are you guys just mad because you didn't make it to college/uni? CS degrees at my uni have a 100% employment rate, even for if you get a third. It sets people up for work in the industry, and while a lot of people are hired by tech companies to program who haven't done CS, it's still a solid foundation for most tech jobs and a worthwhile use of your time.
>>
>>47629622
you act like college is free
>>
>>47629704
it is in first world countries
>>
>>47629704

It's free in Denmark but with the "fremdriftsreformen" life as a uni student in Denmark is probably more shitty than as a uni student in Capitalist America.
>>
>>47629747
A degree from Denmark is useless in real countries
>>
What stuff should one know if they want to be employable out of highschool ? (No web shit)
>>
>>47629768
>Three world top 100 unis
>useless

Dank meme son!
>>
Obviously the math major.
>>
>>47629795
Anything outside the top 10 is literally shit.
>>
File: smug anime face.webm (2MB, 1280x720px)
smug anime face.webm
2MB, 1280x720px
>tfw beating out CS majors for a software dev internship as a business major
>>
>>47629773

hate to be the one to say it but you probably won't get a job in a non-web area, especially straight out of high school

that said, get your head out of your ass. you wouldn't badmouth webdev if you had any idea what kinds of tech it can entail (hint: basically everything)
>>
>>47629845
buttmad web dev detected
>>
>>47629828

This is literally what I mean. A decade from now the CS majors are going work at Starbucks and the liberal arts majors will have nice paying IT jobs thanks to moocs and bootcamps.
>>
http://www.theodinproject.com/ why would i pay for a bootcamp if internet has it free?
>>
>>47629845
I guess you'd need experience in multiple languages, and data structures. What else?
>>
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>>47624518
The Linux Foundation
>>
>>47629888

>moocs

Are there other good moocs than codecademy.com, udacity.com and the advanced stuff on coursera.org?
>>
>>47629622
>100% guaranteed to be a cheap outsourcable code monkey
no thanks
>>
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>>47624587
>very solid social skills
This is like only drafting football players who have very solid understanding of quantum mechanics.
>>
>>47629747
except your 'free' degree isn't even worth wiping your ass with
protip: half of the prestige in getting a degree lies in the fact that you are able to pay for it
>>
>>47629960
>CS
>code monkey

unless you get your degree in India or Russia that's simply not true
>>
>>47629845
You are wrong. It depends on your skills. I got hired a month before graduating high school to work for a startup in the retail industry (making smart POS devices). I'm now (at 18) the main dev of their API and the main maintainer of their payment processing services. I also won two hackathons that opened me to a lot of opportunities to get hired in big corporations (Comcast / NBC Universal was one) but I had to decline their offer because then I would have to drop out of college.
>>
>>47629996
whatever you say retard. You'll learn what abstraction means soon enough and then you might actually connect two and two together and see why CS is worthless in 2015
>>
>>47629996

Even people with CS degrees in India and Russia have interesting jobs.

The PHP and Node.js codemonkeys from Russia/India you find on odesk are people with business and english literature degrees.
>>
>>47629960
>i want a lot of money to write shitty code
you unbelievable idiot
>>
>>47630051
>I want a lot of money to write good code
this is the best meme
>>
>>47629918

devops (a profession in itself), testing, ddd/bdd, learning the whole stack + tools (knowing the language well is maybe 5% of the way), keeping up with innovations and best practices (I've noticed this is vastly underestimated), db & profiling (sql, nosql, key-value stores)

this is why I wouldn't dare call myself a javascript developer if I only knew core javascript up to a professional standard but none of the environment surrounding it
>>
>>47630025

the outlier doesn't make the rule
>>
>>47625599
>That said, our undergrad CS course didn't have a component on kernel programming either, so it was a bit shit.

What school do you go to?
>>
>>47630092
a web dev has to know testing and the tools?
WOW web dev sure is respectable
>>
>>47630130

what are you, twelve?
>>
>>47630141
i am 59
>>
>>47630141
twelve year olds already know that web dev is for plebs?
makes sense
>>
no HR dept. would choose someone who went to something called 'hacker reactor' or 'computer boot camp' over a real college degree.
>>
>>47630092
>devops (a profession in itself)
devops is a meme profession. Its a marketing buzzword.
Devops is the system administration of modern advanced systems.
>>
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>>47629804
>>
>>47630179

not even mad, but it seems to me you're just regurgitating memes with no real idea of what web dev actually is

>>47630174

okay.

the point was that all the things on that list are the absolute minimum requirements for 90% of the jobs I've applied to in my area. entry level, per se. (disregarding low-end types of jobs completely). it appears the US job market is skewed heavily towards entry-level people who know html, css and console.log('hello world')
>>
>>47624537
What universities?
>>
>>47629965
Kekked thank you anon.
>>
>>47630316

Top Universities.
>>
>>47630284

yes, it is.

but it's a far more descriptive term than 'sysadmin' don't you agree?
>>
How employable will I be? I received a degree in pure math (BS), returning to school to take courses in programming, data structures, analysis of algorithms, & computer organization. Not doing it for a degree, but doing it for credit as a post-grad.
>>
>>47630330
Top CS grads from top universities would probably not want to get hired by anyone who browses /g/.
>>
>>47630338
I guess although it all falls under the umbrella of sysadmin anyway. At this point its pretty much a requirement for anyone that is doing well paying work.
>>
>>47630364

There are intelligent people on 4chan and reddit.
>>
>>47630308
you're the one mentioning with pride that a web dev has to know so incredibly basic things like testing and development processes.

have you ever even glimpsed at another field?
>>
>>47630426

would you be so kind and enlighten me as to what arcane mysteries await in other fields
>>
>>47630121
Yes, but it can be an evidence that you can get hired out of high school. You just gotta be smart.
>>
>>47630353
Can I get input on this?

I was accepted as a non-degree but credit taking post-grad student at an elite university. I am using this program to transition from pure mathematics (which I got a BS in) to computer science. Was wondering if I'd be employable.

I may use this as a way to get into an elite PhD program instead.

Thanks anons.
>>
>>47630566
>non-degree
I think that's what's gonna cause you trouble.
>>
>>47630596
I received a BS degree in mathematics. Want to do a MS or PhD in CS. I cannot be admitted to CS graduate programs because I lack CS coursework. I applied as a non-degree but credit taking postbc to complete the required CS coursework to get into a MS or PhD program in CS. The program is at a top 10 university and I was accepted (admissions is selective because there is not a separate program for it and you are funneled into mainstream courses). I was wondering if I took courses and decided to not go PhD route if I'd be employable.
>>
>>47630482
not girlfriends, that's for sure
>>
>>47630654
Well employable for sure, I didn't read your previous post correctly.
>>
>>47630482
>>47630707
boyfriends.
>>
>>47630729
I wish :/
>>
>>47630743
Wanna chat? I'm a good-looking rich male in my 20s ;) ;)
>>
>>47630778
Sorry, I'm only into neet neckbeards
>>
>>47630710
Okay, thanks. I'm probably going to skip industry route and just take enough courses to get into their MS or PhD program and complete the rest in that program. Bare minimum, planning to take programming, data structures, analysis of algorithms, theory of computation and computer organizations. Is there anything I am missing core wise there? I figure I can pick up operating systems or additional courses in an MS or PhD program at this particular school. I want to take bare min. to get into a graduate program.
>>
>>47630743

well trolled, neckbeard-kun
>>
>>47630802
wanna chat?
>>
>>47630807
I'm sorry I don't have enough information about your profile, your school or the industry. That being said why would you want to take a PhD if you plan to become a mere programmer?
>>
>>47624854
its like $6k per semester for me at asu
>>
>>47629611
>>47629622
this
>>47629704
its p affordable if you go instate / do community college and transfer
>>
>Just earned my Associates in CS

>3.0 GPA
>No work experience
>No internships
>No Github
>Didn't save any classwork, deleted it all after I turned it in

Would you hire me?
>>
>>47629704
Even in fucking Mexico is almost free
>>
>>47630850
Great question. My main objective is to get a PhD in CS to do research. I don't think I actually want to be a software engineer, I was asking to see if it were a viable alternative option. I think the more logical choice for a software engineering route would have been to attend a local state university and take all of their software engineering related courses and get some programming projects under my belt.

The two schools I was accepted to (for postbac) are nationally ranked universities. But I'm not using either of them for job enhancement, but academic enhancement. Both schools do well in terms of placing their graduates in top industry jobs.
>>
A real company will hire you with a CS degree from a GOOD uni.

A hipster startup will hire you from a bootcamp, provided you have asperger syndrome.
>>
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>>47624583
What's most viable?
Nanoelectronics, Signal Processing or Robotics and Intelligent Systems?
>>
>>47631009
>Associates
Right there makes you undesirable. :^)
>>
>>47629070
>10-20 years from everybody will be able to program
I do not think so, this programs like codeacademy strarted due to the imminent lack of programmers.
No one wants to be a programmer, even in CS classes today if you ask it, 95% of the students will say they "dont like programming hurr durr, i will werk in db or managing shit herp derp"
>>
>>47630954

>asu
>decent

Why would I hire someone who has spent the last four years drunk?
>>
>>47631009
do you have any experience cleaning toilets?
>>
>>47624518
If your intention is just be a code monkey, then no need for a CS degree
>>
>>47624518
Neither.

A fucking paper isn't worth anything. Neither is a github account, a recommendation or anything else.

The only thing that works to determine ones skill is trial work.
/thread
>>
bumply bump
>>
>>47624697
This. Put on your best face and don't sell yourself short - I'm getting a second interview for a position with IBM and I only applied just for the hell of it, didn't actually think I'd get an interview.
>>
>>47631560
Congrats, I interned at IBM. If accepted prepare for their retarded IQ exam prior to employment.
>>
>>47630025
What is your degree?
>>
IBM only employs Indians in their software divisions these days. Your interview is just an excuse to cover H1B criteria.
>>
>>47631749
I don't have one. I'm studying eecs
>>
Show should I switch my major before I start at ODU?
>>
gumpy bump
>>
>>47631361
just because all you see are incapables around you doesn't meant that there aren't ten Indians working in a sweatshop for every average programmer, ready to churn out code on contracts to firms that are outsourcing
>>
>>47629828
>mfw this isn't true and you're just shitposting because you work a minimum wage dead end job but want to feel special on the internet by telling lies

also
LGTSS
>"business" major
>>
>>47629888
And then after the latter totally fuck up, the CS majors will be brought back to fix their shit and the balance will be restored.
>>
>>47624766

CS is a very general degree used to pass CV screens. Embedded Systems is a very specific course that has very little use outside of its limited job roles.

Also, enrollment counts mean jack shit. CS entry reqs are low tier because the field itself is geared towards people with a certain way of thinking, not for people that are good in other subjects. Majority of students don't pass, the right ones get a First while sleeping though the entire course.

Sure at the end you have a degree that doesn't say much, but when recruiters see a First on a CS degree, they'll check one box on their list and highlight it. CV screening is where most candidates are ruled out, the rest of the process is just knowing what you're talking about.
>>
>>47624518

I've seen a shit ton of applications from these bootcampers. They're all basically first year computer science undergrads. All it does is make it harder to find people.
>>
>>47631775
But I'm white with blue eyes. About as far from Raji as you can get.

I did a previous internship at US Bank that was full of foreigners. We'd joke that we spend more time learning foreign human languages over programming languages.
>>
>>47625684
pls you get out to your shitty meme forumn
Thread posts: 167
Thread images: 9


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