Why is the lack of women in IT and software development positions

Complaining about men is easier than actually being competent like men.

Americans envy the japanese.

>>45833254
>Why is the lack of women in IT and software development positions a problem?
it's not a problem. the problem is that radical feminists are trying to gain power. feminists are the hitler of the 21st century.

>>45833254
because male jobs that aren't hard labor pay a fuckload better than most things women get into.

it's just greedy bullshit. Ignore it.

>>45833411
But how would femnazis answer OP's question?

wasn't the whole thing with gamergate/women in gaming/software just a troll started by /b/ anyway?

>>45833426
they would say something that doesn't even make sense.

>>45833426
something about the patriarchy, and how it prevents women from reaching their true potential, probably how none of the original UNIX team had to work for their accomplishments because male privilege just handed it to them, etc.

Seriously, "feminists" have no ground to stand on these days unless they're actively trying to free women from the kebab menace, because there are women with real problems these days, but most "feminists" just completely ignore this and whine about being paid less when they do less work.

>>45833426
They'll claim that women who enjoy the status quo are simply victims of the patriarchy, or any combination of things that contradict each other but who the fuck cares, vagina powers.
There's no winning with feminists.

Ignore them.

I guess because we have a shortage of genuinely good CS people (at least in the US). (note that we have a lot of shitty programmers, though) Women seem like the group easiest to get more out of.

Plus, we have the whole girls-in-STEM bandwagon for politicians to hop onto. They don't have to make any hard decisions, and they get free vites or at least PR.

Who knows - maybe in 30 years the neckbeard stereotype will be replaced with a new one? Either way we get more cute coworkers, so w/e

>>45833447
Well... Looking at >>45833453, >>45833461 it appears you were right.

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>>45833426
That they can't be programmers because this man's shirt and jokes about USB dongles hurt their feelings.

>>45833426
check ur privlge lol

Calling oneself a "feminist" no longer has anything to do with women's rights or opposing anti-femininity in society, it's just a status symbol that privileged, sheltered people apply to themselves to kiss up to their vain peers. The result is homely shrews piggybacking on the successes of civil rights crusaders so they don't have to actually work hard to get ahead in life.

Bitter manchildren calling themselves "MRAs" (because apparently "masculist" is too big of a word) are exactly the same, they just lack the same political clout as feminism does.

Don't listen to feminists, they will not stop until Castration Day is a real fucking thing.

3rd wave feminism has nothing to do with equality, it's a neurotic power grab.

>>45833462
>I guess because we have a shortage of genuinely good CS people (at least in the US).
People like me have tried getting into that line of work, but are barred by lack of experience and by not being friends with the CIO. That's why I gave up, dropped out of school, and got a job that actually values me and my time.

The fact of the matter is that there are significantly less females then males in the industry. Although the few women programmers at my job are just as competent as there male counter parts, they are without a doubt, the minority. I think that we like to see ourselves as a progressive industry and that causes us to strive for equality but it has not been fully realized yet.

I think it is true that there is *some * prejudice against girls in CS. Not enough to justify the massive push for it, but there is some discrimination - people are more likely to assume that an overconfident male tech is competent than a female one. I'd sure love some of those easy scholarships, though - it's easy as shit to resent then, and then you just get labeled a sexist.

Most women don't care for a field where you spend most of your time indoors churning out computer code, and that's fine.

Most people wouldn't like that shit either.

>>45833505
What can I say? Unless you get an Oracle internship when you're still in HS, it's hard to get started. Hard to get your foot in the door.

>>45833507
You didn't answer his question. How is having a disproportionate gender representation bad? Will you campaign for male nurses and school teachers?

>>45833507
You did not answer the "why" part.

>>45833543
No, because men shouldn't be allowed around children.

>>45833473
>women are stupid and frail children that are more held back by their oversensitive feelings than the severely autistic
Both misandristic landwhales and misogynistic permavirgins ardently believe this, and they dedicate their lives to arguing with each other anyway.

Truth really is stranger than fiction, because no published fiction writer could possibly be nihilistic enough to make up something like this.

>>45833537
I don't live in California, so that isn't an option for me, even if Oracle wasn't a terrible company.

>>45833555
Women shouldn't be allowed around computers.
See? I pull bullshit statements out of my ass too.

>>45833254
There is another truth not many people want to face. Women are terrible at thinking with pure structured logic, which programming requires.

>>45833558
>>women are stupid and frail children that are more held back by their oversensitive feelings than the severely autistic
but this is true

>>45833507
I'd agree with you on the facts. Sure, it's true that there are more men in the field, and that women drop out of the pipeline more than men do. To address OP, I think that the answer is hypocrisy. Logically, there should be a push for male teachers and nurses, but it doesn't fit with the whole buzzfeed-feminism thing.

>>45833555
Why is there such a surge of people these days, leftist and rightist, that desperately want people to be reduced to completely predictable biological machines with no free will, personality or independent thought? When we just spent literally centuries trying to get rid of this retarded way of thinking and ended up with a far more viable meritocratic society?
Are some people really so worthless that they're willing to strip away their last remaining shred of value just so they don't have to try at anything?

I hope you guys realize this is a board sliding attempt.

>>45833558
>women literally tell you that they won't enter a field because of dongle jokes
>attempt to police humor perceived to be offensive at any opportunity
>constant crusades in the media against "cyber-bullying" an almost exclusive experience to young girls
>Why do you autistic permavirgins think women are irrational and over sensitive?

Gee, I don't know.

>>45833564
I'd disagree, but nobody wants to do any studies on it because it'd be so controversial. Now we don't have any proof on either side, and that's just great.

>>45833588
Your sentiment has only existed for ~50 years.

Humanity has been around for 40, 000 years.

Which sounds like a recent trend that can't possibly last against the face of nature?

>>45833566
Yes, but the wording implies that men are not. Twenty minutes browsing this site will quickly disprove such a notion.

>>45833588
So you're against objective data that explains that men are more adept at certain things and women at other things?

Why is this concept of human sexual dimorphism so difficult to swallow?

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>>45833562
Whoosh

>>45833595
There are studies though. One showed pre-natal exposure to testosterone levels correlated with spatial awareness and problem solving skills.

>>45833592
>political board gets nuked
>politics now spewed everywhere, more than before
blame moot

>>45833610
No need to bust out the big words, sweetheart.
You're not fooling anyone.
If women weren't this emotionally frail, you wouldn't be making a generalization against an entire gender.

Also, I'd like to point out that what you just did could be considered a form of hypocrisy.

>>45833593
>my exposure to the opposite sex is limited entirely to Tumblr blogs
>>45833608
People having free will is not a recent sentiment, you retard, it's the basis of the silly religious beliefs that most modern people subscribe to.
>>45833611
No, I'm against retards citing objective data that they know exists but have never actually seen for themselves. Sexual dimorphism in human intelligence is measurable, but still minor compared to the similarities shared between most human beings.

>No one seems to have an issue with the lack of male nurses
But that's so incredibly wrong.

Just about every single medical facility will hire a fresh-out-of-school male nurse over a female with experience because they're both physically more capable (a necessity in the nursing profession due to fat/combative/disabled patients) and don't come with office drama built in.

Also, literally the only people who give two shits about the gender gap in the IT/development professions are radical feminists whose tech knowledge ends at how to browse Facebook on their iPad.

Also, as already stated,
>complaining about men is easier than becoming as competent as men

>>45833621
But there aren't enough of them out there - I (the stickler) want a whole lot of studies with a whole lot more details.

Honestly, though, the whole thing is pretty stupid. You go to any Soc or Psych 101 class and they can talk about differences in the ways men and women think, but we can't talk about it in public. Would it be such a bad thing I'd I was able to say that women have an easier time emphasizing with others than me and that I have an advantage in thinking logically? Preaching to the choir, I guess.

(replace "men" with "autists" and this thread becomes 10x better)

>>45833462
What you'll get is coworkers replaced by idiots who you will have to pick up the slack for.

>>45833635
>sweetheart
I'm guessing you're either coming onto me, and thus should fuck off back to >>>/lgbt/, or contending that everyone who says women aren't all frail morons IS a woman, in which case you should fuck off back to >>>/v/.
>Also, I'd like to point out that what you just did could be considered a form of hypocrisy.
Who's the one spouting big words they don't understand again? (^:

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This country is way to politically correct. We fear lawsuits, not feminist extremists. It was a better day when we had military veterans as politicians, then their spoiled lawyer kids come about.

>>45833530
They don't want to churn out code they want the salary and title.

>>45833716
I see a lot of shitty female coworkers, but I also see a lot of shitty male ones. The more of them are around the better my lazy ass looks to everyone else.

>>45833719
you are obviously being trolled. A proper response would have been a short reply dismissing his ignorance.

Instead your rant seems to only prove his point.

>>45833719
You have to quit with the pseuso-anti-intellectualism or whatever you're doing too. He was just being condescending - you can call a guy "sweetheart" if you're talking down to them.

>>45833608
>40000

You're way off

>>45833657
>free will
You have free will but you don't eat your own shit. Free will /=/ evolution had no impact on biological differences between sexes.

Look to Sweden for a case in point. They have bended over backwards to try and enforce gender equality in all fields, and the past decade has seen a sharp rise to disproportionate representation. Schools are banning gender pronouns, toy stores can't label products for girls or for boys, they're constantly told they can do anything they like, and what do they choose? Women enter careers focused around interaction, social experience, and care while men enter STEM, business, and labor.

Given free will, humans will choose what is natural to them.

>>45833635
>>45833719
>>45833755
>>45833771
This shit right here is the problem. Let's totally ignore what the fuck is saying because he called me a name. Let's just completely forget what the fuck this thread is about.

>>45833777
Anatomically modern humans were 200,000 years ago. Behaviorally modern humans came about 50,000 years ago.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human

Nice try though :^)

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>>45833788
Case in point

>>45833801
Just let it happen.
It's not like any new discussion or viewpoint could possibly arise out of this topic that's been discussed to death, dug back up and then diarrhea'd on.

>>45833657
I'm guessing you've never been in an relationship if female irrationality is new to you.

What they feel takes precedence over what actually happened.

>>45833811
>behaviorally modern

Muh fake words

>>45833771
Oh, come the fuck on, when was the last time "sweetheart" was used in that fashion on 4chan? He's being the same kind of retard as the people who shout "SHIIILLLLL" when people post anything positive about a brand or product they dislike.
>>45833788
>Free will /=/ evolution had no impact on biological differences between sexes.
You're clearly strawmanning anyone who says biology isn't everything as a moron that thinks biology means nothing. We can count more observable biological differences between males and females now than we ever could, but the mental differences between the sexes is still remarkably similar.
I never even said less women in computing is a problem going unsolved. I personally don't care.

>>45833853
>exclusively date stupid whores with nice bodies
>complain when they act like stupid whores with nice bodies

:v)

>>45833868
#BanBiology

>>45833777
Eh, he's only kinda wrong.
Early civilization appeared between 12,000BCE and 9,000BCE during the Neolithic Revolution with city-states emerging as early as 9100BCE at the start of the Agricultural Revolution (beer is over 10,000 years old and predates the first permanent structure).

Homo Sapiens (modern humans) are officially 200,000 years old, though it is heavily debated when they started using tools and even more heavily debated on when they started having complex social interactions outside of family groups.

>>45833910
>no arument -> SJW/feminazi strawman barrage

>>45833788
I really don't understand how they turned a whole country into some social experiment like that.
Why the fuck are the swedes taking this shit?
This is coming from a 3rd generation turk by the way.

>>45833907
>stupid whores
Nope. Most of them were pretty prude and/or religious.

>>45833941
>BCE
Stop this shit.

>>45833969
You can pretty much chalk it up to white guilt.
The UK is next.
I mean, they've set the precedent that muslims can get away with just about anything so long as they can blame it on their culture.

There are few women in IT because of series like Big Bang theory, where the only woman protagonist is dumb and unable to do anyyhing with computers and technology, why Sheldon and the likes are "tech-able", but have 0 social skills. It's not the fault of the series however. It's a whole culture. Women discriminate nerdy guys at HS, so those nerdy guys eventually end up hating women. Because women hated them when they were young. It's a vicious circle. Permavirgins beta will say that women are too dumb to use computers, while feminist landwhales will complain about them being rejected. Both sides have a limited sight of reality.

>>45833963
Your argument was >straw man despite an entire nation and the world's employment statistics being used as evidence.

>>45833555
8/10 because you got 2 people to reply seriously

>>45834050
>Women discriminate nerdy guys at HS
This is caused by their boyfriends. They tend to be dumbfucks taking it out on the smarter kids.
I'm not saying all of them, but it's a substantial amount.
Women follow their men. That's just a fact of life.

>>45833868
>remarkably similar
Vague statement making it impossible to refute, but any evidence that could enforce it is easily implemented to be the right amount to qualify as "remarkably similar."

The fact is men and women desire different things, excel at different things, and approach problems differently. This makes the vast majority suited to completely different jobs.

>>45833941
He didn't say civilization he said humanity.

>>45834100
>behaviorally modern humans came about 50,000 years ago
Yes, and?

>>45834026
>Stop this shit.
I like using neutral identifiers for this thing.

>>45834107
That doesn't mean anything

>>45834080
>It's boyfriends' fault. Yes and no. It's like the chicken and egg problem, because "popular guys" at HS follow girls so they will get one. If girls discriminate nerdy guys, a lot of potential smart guys will totally reject STEM fields so they can get girls. And by that way, girls will act like whores to nerdy guys (interacting with them only if they need to, taking advantage of the fact that the nerdy guy has had almost no contact with girls).

>>45834123
Rubbing your atheism in people's faces is not neutral.

>>45834140
Shit I forgot to newline. My apologies.

>>45834142
I'm agnostic.

>>45834180
Agnostic isn't a real thing, dude.

>>45834184
ok kid

>>45834138
>talking about modern notions of humanity and behaviors
>t-that doesn't mean anything

Sure, kid.

>>45834100
And "humanity" has a very vague and subjective definition.
>humanity means when did humans become humans (Homo sapiens)?
~200,000 years ago
>humanity means when did H. sapiens start using complex tools (IE, more than bash something with rock or jab something with stick)?
Depends on which professor you ask, but ~120,000-60,000 years ago
>humanity means when did H. sapiens start having complex social interactions?
Depends on which professor you ask, but ~80,000-45,000 years ago.
>humanity means when was beer invented (this is apparently a legit, peer-reviewed standard of chronology)?
During or before 9350BCE, so ~13,500 years ago (the cache they found was still drinkable, lol)
>humanity means when did humans build the first permanent settlements and start farming?
9120BCE, or ~11,000 years ago

Most places define "modern humans" as when H. sapiens became a separate species. The majority of the rest go off when humans started having inter-clan social interactions since "humanity" is tied so closely with "society" in common usage.

>>45834054
Statistics measure what, not why. No actual arguments have been presented, only personal opinions, presented as arguments.
>>45834089
Acting like you're a purveyor of politically incorrect reality doesn't make what you say a fact. You're just gambling on the fact that refuting what you say is magnitudes more work than saying it to begin with.
You're literally contending that sexual dimorphism is more biologically determinant than ANY OTHER ASPECT of a human being. It doesn't take a rocket surgeon to see why this is stupid.

>>45834089
how does one's predispositions affect what they WANT to do in life? by your logic there should be literally zero female programmers or male homemakers, it's the just world fallacy
both sexes have generally similar IQs, the differences in mental functioning are largely related to personality. if people thought of computer work as a girly thing, girls would easily be the majority

>>45834050
you make a good point, anon

>>45834293
>>45834050
although, there are many shows which target men, and also portray men as stupid
e.g. 100% of beer ads and 90% of car ads show the guy being an idiot with one purpose in life, which is to drink beer or buy 4WDs (and mostly he's buying the car to seek approval of his woman, too).

>>45834250
>Statistics measure what not why
And despite liberals believing the why was culture and gearing EVERYTHING in Sweden at fighting preconceived notions of gender roles, women STILL made the same choices that those in other countries did.

Sweden's case shows at the very least that culture is not the reason that men and women enter different fields.

>sexual dimorphism is the biggest determinant
I never said that.

>It doesn't take a rocket surgeon to see why this is stupid
Apparently it takes one to argue about it because you haven't provided a single compelling argument or piece of evidence you just kept saying:
>s-strawman
>t-thats just your opinion

too many similar ideas without the variety the woman can provide.
for example if you have a machine that makes cans you still need someone to check to make sure the cans are made well.

>>45834282
See: Sweden

>there would be 0 female programmers
Why? Do you think biology is that black and white? That's not how it works. Otherwise we wouldn't have people who commit suicide or forgo having children despite our obvious natural inclinations to survive and reproduce.

>>45834340
>someone to check to make sure the cans are made well
'someone'
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JbSxlZ6J1h4

>>45833254

no one is upset with the lack of men as nurses cause it lower status the male dominated career of doctor.

there are lots of men in the medical field.

>>45834369
just imagine going to the dentist, and having the dentist be female, and the dentist's assistant being male.
that would too weird to handle

There are fewer women in the IT industry because men are far more likely to have autism.

/thread

>>45834386
it'd be pretty funny if your bait worked

>>45834407

Looks like it did. Bazinga

>>45834368
thats not this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPRA0W1kECg

>>45834322
Of course. But there are very little shows where IT people of both sexes work and interact together in a "normal" way.

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>>45833254
>>45833426

The lack of women isn't a problem. The prevalence of shitlords and discrimination turning women away is the problem.

"Women can't program" or "women suck at math attitudes" is what's under attack here.
The tech industry is the biggest "boys club" and as a result, has become a sexist shithole.

>>45834323
>And despite liberals believing the why was culture and gearing EVERYTHING in Sweden at fighting preconceived notions of gender roles, women STILL made the same choices that those in other countries did.
I don't think you're arguing with me as much as you're arguing with a caricature that only exists in your head.
>Sweden's case shows at the very least that culture is not the reason that men and women enter different fields.
Or that you don't understand the difference between culture and politics. You can't legislate tradition.
>I never said that.
Not verbatim, since this way you can heavily imply something without having to stand by your own words. (^:
>Apparently it takes one to argue about it because you haven't provided a single compelling argument
You posted no citations or evidence, so neither will I.
Of course we're going to disagree on principle. The difference is that you're so far up your own hershey highway that you think your opinions are facts.

>>45833254
>No one seems to have an issue with the
lack of male nurses or school teachers.

In my country they do

>>45834432
sure, but I'm saying that the portrayal of men and women in the media is just acting on stereotypes.
Men are dumb with beer, and women are dumb with computers.
I don't think that the media is the ones to blame for the stereotypes, but they do encourage it.

>>45834433
I can't take you seriously when you're attacking misogyny using reaction pics from inherently misogynistic things like anime-styled video games featuring sexualized shrine maidens.

>>45834356
>sweden sweden sweden
>all people who are different from the norm are mentally ill
yep
i hoped it wasn't a /pol/lack but it always is

>>45834446
You could have just said "opinion discarded" and sounded equally stupid. Maybe next time you post something completely irrelevant to the topic you'd use a tripcode.

>>45834444
I won't refute anything coming from the quads of absolute and divine truth.

Still, my point is that media encourage stereotypes, which encourages media to dusplay them, which encourage more stereotypes...

lack of women in engineering in general gets me upset.
Lowers my chance of finding a GF drastically ;_;

>>45834467
So does that mean you realized what an idiot you've been?

>>45834322
yeah, that's just as damaging

>>45834479
>have no argument
>decided to shitpost instead

Ebic. Maybe use a maymay next time.

>>45834478
you don't want a programmer gf
it becomes that much harder to woo them when they know exactly what you're talking about

>>45834478
Of course. Girls, they wanna have fun. Weird guys are boring. Badass guys are all the fun and attention you need.

>>45834470
I guess I was trying to say that even though ads portray men as dumb with cars, most people understand that the ad isn't portraying most men, just a few
I'll agree with you, as having a generally dumb women in a show like tbbt is somewhat reinforcing that real stereotype

>>45834467
>>45834433
Oh, look. It's a retard.

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>>45834440
>hershey highway
this thread is total shit but this shit right here just saved it

get it? shit? eh? EH/?

:]

>>45834494
Other anon here, I personally don't see the point in "woo" my girlfriend. I don't want to be with a dumb Facebook teenager or alike.

>>45834508
Did my opinions hurt your feelings? You sound upset.

>>45834509
I wonder if people learn to draw comics just so they can make straw argument pictures.

>>45834440
>you can't legislate tradition
Except you can force laws on language, media representation, marketing towards children, and much more so... yes you can. What the fuck do you think the USSR was doing?

>I'll just put words in your mouth and act smug with le meme face =^]

>no citations
Put the words "Sweden Occupation Gender" into Google. Literally all of the relevant links from actual research is PDF links, which force my phone to immediately download it instead of providing a direct link or opening in my browser.

An intellectually dishonest man who refuses to adhere by his own requests of others is not worth getting me out of bed to turn on my PC.

Enjoy your echo-chambers. I'm sure some day people will suddenly stop being influenced by tens of thousands of years of evolution forcing sexes into exclusively different functions.

>>45834534
Yeah, there's something off-putting about seeing stupid stick man comics drawn by someone with actual drawing ability, they just come off as try-hard and condescending.

>>45833254
People actually do have a problem with the lack of male nurses since female nurse can't do much when a patient gets ticked off. Source being that I've been to a psych ward.
I'm also sure the need for more male teachers is a thing too.

>>45834570
women teachers for english and arts, male teachers for maths
and all is fine in the world

ITT: Yeah, it's just TV and stuff. Biology? Pfft nah. Every remotely successful civilization ever had the same sexual dimorphism by accident. It's just the media, trust me.

>>45834561
>Except you can force laws on language, media representation, marketing towards children, and much more so... yes you can. What the fuck do you think the USSR was doing?
So, people are biologically deterministic when you like it and completely susceptible to environmental manipulation when you don't. Right,
>Enjoy your echo-chambers. I'm sure some day people will suddenly stop being influenced by tens of thousands of years of evolution forcing sexes into exclusively different functions.
So, yes, you are arguing with a caricature that only exists in your head because arguing with someone who merely has different opinions from your own is too much work.

Here, I'll humor you: I'mm a transfox pyrogendered Maoist demigirl and you're triggering me, your objective facts and reality aren't part of my political narrative. Is this what you wanted to hear?

>>45834534
that comic is completely accurate though in how it portrays feminists who behave like that

they unapologetically hate men, are extremely vocal and rude and completely fail to realize their hypocrisy even when its waved in front of their faces

no where does the comic imply every feminist is like that, though it shows why the word feminist has been significantly poisoned by a significant number of people that identify as one

>>45833254
It won't be problem once everybody can get on board with the fact that, in general, man and women think and act differently, and those differences lead to different career choices.

Men have a natural drive to master things and to compete. It's the reason why men are almost always the top players in any type of game, whether video game or not. It's also what drives more men than women to competitive and challenging careers, like IT.

Feminazis can't get over the fact that perhaps the reason there are fewer females in IT is because fewer women want to be in IT. The few that do want to be in IT understand that they need to be just as competent as any man if they want to compete in the field.

>>45834568
It's especially aggravating when the actual point isn't wrong, but everything the author does to get it across is a load of bullshit that makes you want to disagree on principle. It's like /pol/ talking about affirmative action.

>>45834624
>It's like /pol/ talking about affirmative action
When the fuck did this place become infested with SJWs?

/pol/ is full of the worst kind of garbage but they are spot on with affirmative action. Go read a book or two by Thomas Sowell.

>>45833994
It was surprising to you that a religious person valued their emotions over rationality?

All /pol/ and anti-SJW shit aside, I really am bothered by multiple above-the-fold articles this year that I have seen striving for equality in the tech field/Silicon Valley. One article was saying there wasn't enough mexicans/blacks and one article was saying there wasn't enough women. None of the articles managed to say why that matters, but that it's just bad.

>>45834594
>Every remotely successful civilization ever had the same sexual dimorphism
kek, you took a nonsensical statement and added "remotely successful" to try to no-true-scotsman your way out of arguing an unfalsifiable claim
you still have yet to prove that
>all men and all women want the same exact things as every other member of their own sex
>predisposition = desire
and now you have to prove that women have literally never contributed to a hard science ever

k
e
k

>>45834433
Does this mean teaching and nursing are misandrist matriarchies?

>>45834640
...that is literally what I just said. My point was that you can't get people to believe something with a load of crap, no matter how true it is by its own merit.

>>45834596
>you can't legislate culture
>yes you can
>hah! So biology isn't deterministic of everything!
What? So despite the fact that I never said biology is deterministic of EVERYTHING, you're still going to parrot that line at sobering completely unrelated? You realize my point was that culture isn't at fault for gender representation in the workforce. To which you stated that culture can't be legislated despite recent history showing otherwise.

A population's biology is a product of the environment, that's what evolution is all about. The best suited to a particular environment thrive. It obviously take a long time to make any serious changes on a physical level to a population.

>you're just strawmanning!
I said biology is the main reason why women don't get into STEM. You're saying it's culture. One side has 50k years of history, the other has failed social experiments.

>>45834677
Actually, males in teaching do get a lot of shit even though there's no evidence that they pose a threat to students or are subpar at their jobs.
Theoretically, they should be worse across the board because women have better social skills, but biology is no match for sapience.

>>45834672
Name a single one that didn't that 1) lasted longer than a few centuries. 2) had a footprint larger than Vermont. And 3) made a basic contribution to the history of science.

I'll wait.

>>45833387
This. Also feminists have an obsession with being men. Their perception of strength is male attributes. So they pick the male dominated careers that are the most physically undemanding that women can do. Since it is much harder to get oil rig workers, which are private businesses to lower their standards then it is for firefighters which are public sector and they dont care if someone dies in a fire as long as women can live the fantasy that they are being useful.

>>45834696
ah
sorry m8
its 5 am and i should go to bed
gnite

>>45833426
Kind of like this:
Lots of potential female genius stays undiscovered because women have it so hard to get into tech, that's why we assume they do have great talents and make it super easy for them to get into tech!

It's not a problem. Hispanics, women and blacks aren't into tech. There not smart enough

>>45834751
That's kinda racist and sexist, don't you think?

>>45834751
Spain and Portugal made some pretty important contributions to naval technology.

Niggers haven't done anything.

>>45834766
Truth is not discriminatory.

>>45834776
>he thinks spanish and portugese people are hispanic

>>45834703
>You realize my point was that culture isn't at fault for gender representation in the workforce.
Yes, your point is simply wrong, because the government cannot magically change culture on a whim. Russians were still Russian during the Soviet regime, no matter how much Stalin wanted that not to be. Why do you think he killed tens of millions of people?
Culture is dynamic and evolves with people, it's not something you can dictate with votes and bills. If anything, it's much harder to overcome than biological differences--you can't fix beliefs with gene therapy.
>A population's biology is a product of the environment, that's what evolution is all about. The best suited to a particular environment thrive. It obviously take a long time to make any serious changes on a physical level to a population.
Oh, christ, now you're saying upper body strength is a prerequisite for programming ability?
>I said biology is the main reason why women don't get into STEM. You're saying it's culture. One side has 50k years of history, the other has failed social experiments.
They had computers fifty thousand years ago? Do tell.

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because if some dude decides he'll become an RN and steps into class, his fellow nursing students don't lose their shit the second he doesn't show a interest in licking their yeast and cheeto stained vagina

>>45834791
Well, we are the only hispanic people on earth. Iberian Peninsula is Roman Hispania province. Not Mexico.

>>45833254
>No one seems to have an issue with the lack of male nurses or school teachers.
No one seems to have an issue with the lack of female mine workers too, or jobs that are bad for your health or have you bear other great risks

It's not equality they want it's power

>>45834766
do you know any hispanics, women and blacks that are into tech and good at what they do? even if you can come up with a few examples, anon's statement still holds in general. there are lots of hispanic wannabe indie mobile game developers but they're for the most part incompetent amateurs.

>>45834433
There is bad attitude towards men too.

>>45834748
But you make it harder to make men get into tech, losing some potential talent just as well.

>>45834433
Then why are women obsessed with it? The answer is, they wish they were men. But they are not or ever will be. I dont go to knitting parties and be surprised when everyone there is an old woman then rant about it on facebook when I get home.

>>45834851
Yeah all those programmers who rule the world, the women just want a piece of that power.

>>45834868
>there are lots of white male wannabe indie mobile game developers but they're for the most part incompetent amateurs.
Yes most people are shit, what's your point?

>>45834868
I can't think of many white guys that are good at tech, either. Most people in general are shitters.
>>45834907
>all women are feminazis
Look, I'm sorry your GF dumped you for Jamal, but we should be objective here.

>>45834921
Not power in the cartoonish sense, they just want to manufacture problems so they can get an easy ride in life.

>>45834921
IT workers (who are not only programmers) rule the world, idiot.

>>45834965
This is the classification of males working in Maths/IT:
>Asian are god-tier race
>Caucasians and indians are top-tier race
>Slavs are decent-tier race
>Others are bad.

>>45834873
Now you're just what about the menzing.

>>45833254
>it's a child like greed
>sees something they want and dont have
GIMMIE DAT. MINE.
>it's not yours. you can work at getting one yourself
NOT FAIR. GIMMIE
>no, you have to work for it
YOURE MEAN. I HATE YOU.

>>45835067
... what

>>45833558
1+1=2 <=>
man=woman

there's no shortage of male nurses or teachers you incredible buffoon, do you live in the fucking 1950s??? or are you some kind of ape going "hurr hurr teacher is girl job, nurse is girl job, there no men!!!"

>>45835204
>hurr hurr teacher is girl job, nurse is girl job, there no men!!
iirc there are only 20% men working in both fields, and the trend is increasing, espescially for teachers

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>>45834211

Wow, nice informative post.

20f here. Starting diploma in ICT next year. There is no selective bias in employment. If you have the qualifications, you'll be accepted no matter what gender you are. I have encountered no discrimination there.

I noticed a lack of encouragement growing up. While I was taking apart chairs, computers, researching mobile phone specs and inspecting the circuitry of my toys, no other girls were interested in things like that. Usually their parents would look at me and say my interests made me a tomboy, and that definitely coloured my female friends' view of technology and what would be thought of you if you liked it and were curious about it. I was buying myself robotics kits at 10 to pass time while my dad was still giving me Barbies and make up sets for Christmas (they were nice gifts but overall technology won my attention more). I made friends with boys more often than not because they were freer to have interest in it and given more encouragement to be interested in that because it was "technical" and "intellectual".

At times I would put my kits away and try to play with dolls so I'd have something in common with other girls but it didn't have the same spark as reading an instruction manual and creating something from nothing like technology did. I could do girly things but overall I liked doing things with my hands.

I have no idea how many women will be in my diploma course next year. I hope there will be a few. I want to encourage other people to get involved with technology too, and I plan to start my own security company and run seminars to encourage other girls and women to take up technology as a valid interest and a tool and show them what they can do. I wish I'd had that when I was younger to reassure me that I could be interested in technology and still be seen as a normal girl. No doubt it has put off countless other brilliant minds that would have been so valuable in this age with a little push.

>>45833254
>If a woman genuinely wants to develop software or become a systems administrator

They don't. They don't want to work as either, they want the Hollywood perception of those jobs, which are noticeably less work than the reality. They want the programmer job that lets them quickly solve a problem, impress everyone and sack off for a coffee and a cigarette.

Of course when they discover the reality is that it's a long, tough and difficult job they wimp out and blame men for not making it open enough to women, as if they're kids that need coddling. On my entire graduation year less than 10% of the grads were women and they were mostly from 'business and IT' courses.

You're damn right I mad.

>>45835284
If you are a real femanon, I must say you're one in a million. Congrats on that. My CE class has 4 girls out of ~50 people. That's really a bad thing.

>>45835284
So you have no interest in playing with dolls, but want to convince other girls who don't like playing with tech to play with tech?

>>45835304
how is that a bad thing

>>45835304
Damn, that's depressing, but I'm also very glad they fought their way to that position. They're paving the way for other women to follow in their footsteps every day and it makes me really happy to see that.

>>45835334
I'd do as well if I was her. I wouldn't want to be alone in my hobbies.
Which is what happen to many men when they are young.

>>45835284
>tfw no qt3.14159265358979 autistic gf

>>45833507
But it is a progressive industry, it hires anyone based on ability. There's a lack of women coming through uni with the correct qualifications so they can't hire women that don't exist.

>>45835339
Where do I find a waifu with similar interests?
>>45835349
I don't want to depress you more, but they seem to have no particular interest in hacker culture. Here, in Spain, Computer Engineering is a very easy career to get in (although not to complete), so, a a lot of females got here because they were rejected in other areas.

>>45835334
No, not at all. I liked both, but technology held my attention more. I played with dolls to socialize with other girls for the most part and it was fun. I want to convince girls (and boys!) that it's okay to play with dolls AND tech, and that you are not less of a girl or doing anything wrong. With women, I want to convince them that learning a new programming language is no different to Spanish etc. It's a valuable tool that can open all sorts of doors. Equal interest in anything, basically.

>>45835304
>My CE class has 4 girls out of ~50 people.
The balance is about the same here, in a nordic country where women have better rights than men, yet they choose not to go for STEM fields.

>>45835349
If not for the fact that most women are not interested...

>>45835386
It's not even close to the same thing. Learning human language lets you communicate with humans, programming language with machines.

>>45835386
>I want to convince them that learning a new programming language is no different to Spanish etc
You retarded woman.

>>45835387
>Nordic Country
>I'm in Spain
It feels so sad that despite economic and cultural variations between our two countries, the same thing remains.

>>45835360
>tfw my bf is the autistic one

>>45835284
>I have no idea how many women will be in my diploma course next year. I hope there will be a few.

There'll be three not including you.

Two won't know what the fuck they're doing and only turned up because they use Facebook and think that's what computing is. Don't make friends with them, they're leaving at the end of the first year latest. Don't get into groups with them either unless you like doing an entire project yourself (serious choice there, I always did like it).

The third one will be just as competent as most of the men on your course...which as you are about to learn means she's probably adequate at most. Most of your class full stop will not be very good even by graduation, she'll be no different.

>>45835398
You retarded permavirgin, what she says is that learning to program is learning to do useful stuff, just a learning a human language is.
What you think is that she says that human languages are the same as programming languages.
I'm 99 % sure that she didn't meant that.

>>45835398
>>45835397
Sorry, what I meant was that it's a different form of communication to learn. Just pulled something out of my head. If I didn't put it in a way like that then I probably wouldn't garner any interest from an audience that didn't know anything about it. My bad.

>>45835415
>I was taking apart chairs, computers, researching mobile phone specs and inspecting the circuitry of my toys
>I was buying myself robotics kits at 10
>At times I would put my kits away and try to play with dolls so I'd have something in common with other girls but it didn't have the same spark as reading an instruction manual and creating something from nothing like technology did
those don't seem like things a normal person would do, just saying.

>>45835386
>learning a new programming language is no different to Spanish etc
>what I meant was that it's a different form of communication to learn

.................

>>45835421
Awesome. Even if it's only one girl I'll be happy with that, but even then I don't mind. As long as I'm learning about something I'm passionate about, I don't mind who I'm learning with if they're just as passionate.

>>45835472
Just, please, one thing. Do NOT program visual novels about yourself being depressed.

>>45833254
>There is nothing keeping them from jumping through the same hoops of fire everyone else has to.
Well, there is sexual harassment, happened at Apple Inc.

>>45835457
If you've got any better ideas to explain programming to people that are intimidated by it to conjure interest without being patronizing, then I'm all ears. When I am properly qualified in the field then I will be better equipped to explain it to novices in a way that's better understood.

>>45835472
>I don't mind who I'm learning with if they're just as passionate

Ah shit I hate to do this but no, most of them will not be passionate. I am a britfag and recently completed my degree, I met two people in the entire time I would classify as overtly passionate about the subject, the rest were apathetic at best and grudging at worst.

>>45835525
At least I'll have the cynicism of /g/ to come home to.

>>45835525
Well most of the women that enter the field now do it out of spite and money and not because they have the desire.

>>45835521
You don't have to be qualified to explain people why they shoud get into programming. It's fun. Period.

>>45835624
Yeah, you're right... It is fun, that's why I got into it. It makes sense to use the same hook for others that snagged me at first.

>>45835704
but it's not fun for everybody, including most women. they're afraid of failure and don't want the slightest challenge. they're inherently lazy and don't want to exert themselves, neither physically nor mentally.

>>45833559
Oracle is an awful company, I can confirm. I have to work with the fuckers and it's hell.

Also, we should embrace more female workers into the industry because lord knows it's too much of a sausagefest already.

>>45835764
You should help them create a programming language thats based on feelings and not logic.

>>45835748
Programming is a whole different world, because in there, the only failure is yourself. You can't blame anyone. That's the part I enjoy the most.

>>45835805
yes but you must realize that you're quite different from the typical woman, so that convincing other women to join you may be harder than you think.

All of my IT teachers have been women. wut

>>45835387
>nordic country

I'm in Sweden and my CE classes are usually 1/5 girls.

While there definitely are more woman here now than before most do indeed choose to go to the more classical female occupations.

>>45835839
(I'm a man, not the femanon.)
>>45835851
There has been a peak in the mid-80s. Women were about 40% of IT graduates.

>Captcha: skeyp

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>>45835851
>mfw my data structures teacher was hot 30 something year old Portuguese woman

>>45835782
I've met some pretty logical women and some emotional men. That shit won't fly

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>>45835782
You mean like C+Equality?

>>45835525
This is true for all fields and all genders. I studied Astrophysics, a field most would think only has merit if you have passion, and I wasn't overly passionate about it.

>>45835748
Expressing negative expectations for "most" of an entire gender is not something that is helpful while saying that if they try like everyone else in the field they will be fine. It is a fruitless exercise of proving a point that is neither relevant nor accurate.

In my government job the lead developer for the platform is a woman.

>>45836047
Yeah that was intended as a statement about college/university more than a statement about computing. The fact is that for some utterly baffling reason people spend lots of time and money studying things they don't give a fuck about and would an hero if they had to do for the rest of their lives.

>>45836075
>This is how things like the obamacase website are such brilliant successes.

>>45834907
Well don't you think it'd be a better world where you aren't discriminated at knitting parties despite your interest?

>>45836084
Not even an amerifat. The platform is actually successful in serving the clients that its built for.

You know what happened? College graduates that didn't follow a STEM related degree. Sure law degrees are great as well but other than that business and English degrees don't pay well unless you landed an internship earlier. Equality is a very easy subject to understand. Somehow these 3rd wave feminists decided to advocate a very easy subject. Others saw how easy it is to advocate and in their minds they think they are the change by telling others to change.

>>45834050
Is there really a sizeable amount of virgins working in STEM? thought that was a stereotype

>>45834478
How does anyone in engineering get a gf? that profession is a sausage fest

>>45836370
You don't need a partner from inside the job.
It would be awesome but it just doesn't happen because of what you just said.

Most engineers and shit will get a good gf because of their salary so they will be their providers while they fuck Tyrone when their engineer boyfriend is outside.

>>45836343
It is a stereotype. But it is so strong it eventually becomes real. Although most IT workers end up non-virgin, everythin related with women are hard for us at young ages. Harder than for normalfags.

>>45836370
Thats why man invented booze and bars.

But thats also why man is in the process of inventing sexbots.

>>45835284
At school it was the girls who were top of the class in science and maths but by 16-17 something switched in their brains and they lost all interest. When I entered sixth form my physics class was 50% female but by the second year it was 100% male. No discriminaion, we were all sitting in silence learning all the time. Women are just not interested in tech.

>>45836370
Business studies major here, I can't find shit in my field as well. You need to socialize and attend events, or have someone introduce you.

Fucking sucks having to study in all male class, no motivation.

>>45833254
>lack of male school teachers
only a problem in murica

>>45836387
But from where if not work?Lets say you rolledup into town with no friends, got a job in the most autistic of engineering fields, how on earth do you meet women?
>>45836408
>STEM autists chatting up women in bars
Top lel

>>45836429
Totally this.

>>45835284
You're looking at 30% f in your freshman year of ICT and look forward to that dropping as time goes by.

>>45833442
No, it started when people found out how a woman developer had sucked a few cocks to get a better review for her game.

>>45836522
>a better review for her game.

>implying this happened

>>45836572
>does not even imply that she didnt suck cocks.

>>45836572
>>45836522
The thing is, her game didn't get professionally reviewed by her boyfriend who was a professional reviewer.

>>45833254
>school teachers.
Uh they do if it's kindergarten, primary school etc. And no there is no reason to believe a majority of males teaching young kids is dangerous

>>45836572
Zoe Quinn man, look it up. She started this massive shitfest and ten people like Anita Sarkeesian join the bandwagon and cry "muhsoggyknee", when really no one gives a shit.

>>45836616
I know the irony is hilarious

To answer OP, there's no reason there should be more women in CS or similar fields, if a girl wants to do CS, awesome, it'd be cool to have a few more girls around, but all the people forcing this shit down people's and young womens' throats, it's really no wonder they don't want to get into the field.

>>45836589
As defenders of women's virginity, I sentence her to a slut shaming and a minimum of five (5) death threats. That'll teach that whore.

>>45836522
Sucking cocks is no way of succeeding in life. It puts us heterosexual males at a disadvantage.

We work hard and succeed based on our merits and performance.

>>45836522

She never did. She slept with one Kotaku writer who never even reviewed her game.

>>45836674
Of course not, and the people that do are fucking animals.

>>45836679
Really? I heard otherwise. Is there an article you could link me to, or should I just google myself..

>>45836654
>make it easier to get into a field filled with neckbeards and shitstains

Gee I wonder why they aren't jumping into CS right now.

>>45836522
>woman developer
whoah whoah, she'd actually have to earn the title

>>45836572
http://kotaku.com/in-recent-days-ive-been-asked-several-times-about-a-pos-1624707346

The only article of his that did mention her game: http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2014/01/08/admission-quest-valve-greenlights-50-more-games/#more-183169

>>45836747
Women are too dumb to be developers anyway.

Reading stuff like this makes me glad I don't have live in a feminist shithole like America.

>>45836429
>At school it was the girls who were top of the class in science and maths but by 16-17 something switched in their brains and they lost all interest.
they just want DICK, literally. they start sleeping around, having lots of different boyfriends and that's basically what they spend their time doing.

>>45836813
Puberty destroys girls both mentally and physically.

>>45836847
>and physically
why don't you have a seat over there...

>>45833254
Meanwhile, in the real world outside of the basement OP lives in.

>I wanna be a nurse bros.
>Cool brah. They make decent bank.

>I wanna be a software engineer /g/ / slashdot / reddit.
>OMG GTFO! WOMEN SUCK AT PROGRAMMING! THIS IS A GENTLEMAN'S CLUB, FUCK OFF!

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>>45836855
Okay

>>45833254
>Why is the lack of women in IT
Maybe for the same reason there's a lack of women in prison.

>>45836847
Messed up tbh m8 seek help

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>>45833254
>I want an easy job where I'm paid a lot
>I not only want it, I'm entitled to it
Every woman ever.

>>45836889
>in the real world
>feminist fantasy

>>45836813
If you loved dicks and they were all around you begging to be stroked wouldnt you also lose interest in your autistic hobbies and enjoy yourself. Face it if women were as easy as women are men wouldnt bother trying to achieve anything.

This whole thread needs to be nuked into oblivion.

Why aren't more women in IT? It's because they've been groomed from a young age to be less interested in technology since it is associated more with males. This isn't true for EVERY person but it is quite obvious that parents both knowingly and unknowingly groom their kids to stick to their respective gender code in order to make them more normal and better prepared for society and its norms.

Are all women uninterested in tech? No.

Are all women capable of being in the IT field? Yes.

Is there gender/sex discrimination in the workplace? Probably, but not nearly as much as even 20, let alone even longer ago. Not enough to have an effect on finding employment.

I do think this whole new wave feminist thing is bullshit. I identify as a feminist, that is, I believe all people should be treated equally regardless of gender or sex. I've honestly never really experienced any blatant sexism in my life or even witnessed it. Even my gf says that she has never been told she could NOT do something because she was a girl.

>>45837231
>It's because they've been groomed from a young age to be less interested in technology since it is associated more with males.

Which is why they always need the latest iphone or macbook.

>>45837231
If you believe everyone should be treated equally why do you call yourself a feminist and not an egalitarian?
Oh, it's because you're full of shit.

>>45837231
>It's because they've been groomed from a young age to be less interested in technology
>capitalizing entire words
Asspained female detected.

>>45837246
#ultirekt

>>45837285
#tyranosaurusrekt

>>45837231
>It's because they've been groomed from a young age to be less interested in technology since it is associated more with males.

What about cooking? Growing up it's seen as a motherly chore, but most professional chefs are male. Not everything is a brainwashing conspiracy by the patriarchy. Dismissing biology as a factor in how a human is shaped, pretending we're all born as equal, empty canvases - that is some serious social engineering, marxist bullshit. It's also convenient how the "grooming" of boys that leads to them becoming car mechanics isn't a hot issue amongst feminist "equality" warriors. My guess is they see these people making good money in the IT world "by just doing something on a computer" and they reckon, hey that looks easy, why aren't I in on it?

>>45837394
>My guess is they see these people making good money in the IT world "by just doing something on a computer"
That's a good point actually. Think about how this feminist programmer thing correlates with the ease of use of computers.
The easier computers got to use, the bigger noise women were making about not enough women in CS.
"Hey I can use a computer"
Note that it's disconnected from the difficulty of developing souring up. It's getting more difficult, and that correlates with the number of CS females going down. There used to be loads of females in CS, but in the 70s-80s, it shot down. Women played a significant part in the advent of modern computing, but selected themselves out of what it became.

>1940
>females used to be discriminated based on their gender
>"WE DON'T WANT THAT WE WANT TO BE MORE THAN A GENDER WE ARE CAPABLE OF ANYTHING MEN ARE"

>fast forward to 2014
>"WE WANT TO GET HIRED BECAUSE WE ARE WOMEN IT DOESN'T MATTER IF WE'RE NOT CAPABLE FOR THE JOB"

wat

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>>45833453
>being paid less

>>45837246

True!

>>45837283

That's because I'm talking strictly about the equality of men and women, which is pretty much what's been argued in this entire thread. I even specified that when I said "I believe all people should be treated equally regardless of gender or sex."

>>45837285
What?

>>45837394
I'm no expert on the subject. I think you kind of answered it yourself though. It's not that women don't cook, it's that women generally don't cook professionally. Many women are home cooks for the family. When you pursue it as a profession, it's generally in a very hectic environment with a lot of yelling/stress which doesn't cater to women. Actually, I don't think the professional chef caters to men or women, it seems like a really shitty job with little pay, long hours, stressful work. Who the fuck wants to yell or get yelled at for hours on end in a hot ass kitchen?

I'm also not saying that men and women are the same biologically, but they are both pretty much capable of whatever the other one can do. No, I do not mean reproducing and all that biology shit you want to throw at me. I mean that they are capable of pursuing and succeeding at almost any profession they want, as in the context of this thread.

>>45837231
>Is there gender/sex discrimination in the workplace? Probably, but not nearly as much as even 20, let alone even longer ago. Not enough to have an effect on finding employment.
>>45837231
>Not enough to have an effect on finding employment.
Confirmed for being an oblivious misogynist.

>>45837531
Typical attention whore, has to link to every single person, regardless if there is even anything relevant to add.

>>45837637

Haha, like I said I'm not an expert on any of this stuff and I doubt anyone else in here is either. When I said that there is probably gender/sex discrimination in the workplace I was thinking about some misogynist small business owner in the deep American south who refuses to hire a female employee. Obviously there are still some sexists in the world just like there are some (probably more) racists. It would be stupid to ever assume that there is never any level of discrimination in the world. I seriously doubt that any corporate recruiter or person in charge of hiring would discriminate against a competent woman in today's world with businesses that actually matter.

>>45837646
God forbid I respond to people, right? If this is a discussion board (it is), why would I post and then leave if I'm here for discussion? I also don't think you understand what relevant means because I posted some pretty relevant information contributing to the topics/context of this thread. Fuck off faggot nigger get rekt xD

>>45837719
You're a sheltered little man. There is employment discrimination and sexism all around you, not matter where you live.

>>45834050
You're full of shit. Firstly, more women in CS results in more chances to get laid for your average male CS student.
Need I go on? This alone deconstructs your entire nonsense.
Unless you want to claim that people who work in CS are stupid.

>>45837741

Yeah, no shit, that's why I fucking said that in my reply. Note the part where I said: "Obviously there are still some sexists in the world just like there are some (probably more) racists. It would be stupid to ever assume that there is never any level of discrimination in the world."

>>45837231
>Are all women capable of being in the IT field? Yes.
No. Why would all women be capable of it when a minority of men are?

> It's because they've been groomed from a young age to be less interested in technology since it is associated more with males.

Not really, though that doesn't help. I'd say a bigger cause is that they've been taught to disproportionately fear failure.

>>45837760
just, what? How does your point makes me wrong?

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If women are possible to become equal, and their potential is equivalent to that of men, why does it make a difference if more women join technology or not?

I think it is traditional that men work together better. But that's just because of tradition right? So the real goal to having men and women more equal is not to improve sharing of ideas because women can contribute anything more than men can with each other. It's because of this: >>45835386

fixed my sentence to be more clear:

>>45838024
>So the real goal to having men and women more equal is not to improve sharing of ideas because women can contribute anything more than men can with each other.
The real goal is not to have men and women become more equal in workplaces so that they can improve sharing of ideas because women are supposed to be equal and can contribute as much as any man. It's because of this: >>45835386