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Truth about Steroids

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Ok /fit/, what is the barebones truth about steroids? Been lifting for almost 3 years now on a regular basis, an acquaintance I know took them and he got some serious gains. Now I am thinking of taking them.

Are they as dangerous as some people make them out to be? Do they permanently change and/or damage your hormone system? Does it mess with your sex drive? What are the real dangers?

Redpill me /fit/.
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>>40628740
The main key is to never come to 4chan for steroid advice go online and study hormonal reaction and some basic biochemistry I guarantee that the majority of ppl on the internet have no idea what they are doing when I comes to steroids yet they all think they are a genius bc they used a needle a few times and haven't died yet.
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>>40628740
I'd highly recommend reading Reddit's steroid wiki as a jump off for the basics. As for health issues, read, read, read, read, and read some more.

General rule is you can NEVER do enough research.

As a starter though, it's worth pointing out that done properly, the health risks are minimal to none. My own GP has given me the green-light on steroid use, and basically said the only real danger is blood-borne infections from needle sharing, which only an idiot would do.

All the stuff you hear about health issues are either myths, or due to poor execution.

Orals can damage your liver, but then so could taking the correct dose of paracetamol, every 4 hours, for a month. You can go bald, but only if you were going to anyway. You can get gyno (bitch tits) and other estrogen related side effects, but only if your AI use is poor/non-existent (and plenty of guys don't bother and are still fine). Long term issues come from poor/non-existent PCT or simply blasting too hard for too long.

A basic cycle is Testosterone Enanthate. Remember that Testosterone is basically just a natural supplement - it's in your body anyway, you're just increasing it massively. With the right AIs and PCT, it's simple, effective, and very safe.

Plenty of people damage their bodies, often irreparably, doing things like smoking or drinking alcohol. Hell, even working 30 years in some shitty job you hate or being in a dead relationship you're too scared to leave is far more damaging.

There's also a major taboo around steroids due to brainwashed Americans who see it as "cheating". Cheating who? If you were to cross the Atlantic would you get on a plane, or swim?

This also means they're illegal or at least a grey-area in most jurisdictions, meaning buying online is the only option. Plenty of good labs and sources out there, but also plenty of shite. Again, the biggest "danger" is getting something that will harm you, it's just getting bunk gear that is under-dosed and pointless.
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>>40628740
They make your dick grow by ~ 1 inch
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>>40628826
It's cheating because all roidfags do is pretend they're not on junk and if they are in a situation where they cant maintain the lie anymore they say absolute crap like: "well yeah im on roids but really the size is down to cleaning up my diet and really committing in the gym".

I have no issue at all if someone wants to fraud it so long as they dont piss me off by rocking up covered in acne with huge lats swearing they're natty.
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>>40628826
Not op but thank you for the informative post.

I had a question about sources, would steroidsourcetalk be a good starting point in your opinion?

I have done quite a lot of reading (not enough of course) and I have a beginner cycle in mind but I need to find a source for everything.
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>>40628874
Just use amazon market place, all this source obscurity talk is so as not to shit up the thread, not because its hard to get
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>>40628848
Guy you're replying to here.

Yep, I agree with that. If you claim natty but you're not, that is cheating, especially when you're inevitably shilling some crap through your Youtube channel or "personal training" business.

That said, while gear is "magic" it can't break the laws of physics. You still need to eat and train properly.
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>>40628936
It's not just the professionals, its your standard fraud who will never admit they're pinning when its blatant to anyone who's been lifting for a day. I know a PT friend who's really committed to it, but all he gets are people coming in to his sessions and bringing up a picture of some men's magazine roider saying they want to be like him and then being unhappy whenever he says that wont happen.

To say they're not magic is stupid when we all know you pile more muscle on sitting doing nothing on them than lifting natty.

Again, i actually have nothing against them - they enable you to look good without doing in joints, whilst being able to do cardio and also freeing up time for other things, with no downsides if done right - but so long as anyone on it isn't open about it it's cheating.
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>>40628874
There are aggregate sites, one in particular stands out but not sure if I can name it.

You can look at the top rated sites overall, or you can choose your country (UK here).

I actually went with the 3rd top rated (stock and prices) and it went without a hitch.

If you're in the UK it's also easier. A big UK muscle (clue) and steroid forum openly welcomes steroid talk. No source talk due to them still being illegal to sell, but I put photos of my gear on there and everyone said it's good to go. Lab I got is also highly rated.

Just research. And don't get some shite from a guy down the gym.
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>>40628936
i think gear should only come into usage after one has reached his natty limit
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>>40628978
I think we're on the verge of arguing semantics here, but I get what you mean. It isn't quite "cheating" in that sense, just lying.

As someone who recently jumped on, I now "get it" and I'm in the UK where it's perfectly legal.

I could easily explain to people why it's fine, and have done to close friends. People believe all the stupid myths - why wouldn't they when they've had no need to research the truth? It's easy to explain, but boring, tedious, and comes across as mildly Autistic. So it's best just to keep your mouth shut and claim "I've been hitting the gym hard".

I wish it was different, but sadly, as long as this taboo remains, you have to keep up the act.

I must admit though, a little part of me likes it. Like it's a secret that gives you an advantage. Again, not "cheating" as such as anyone can do it, but if every cunt was at it we'd not have any advantage!

My GP did also say though that it's surprisingly common. LOADS of guys, especially the younger late-teen/early 20s generation (I'm 30 now) do it. It's fucking obvious.
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>>40628999
Reaching your "natty limit" (again, very difficult to define in reality) can take years.

Again - if you were going from the UK to Spain, would you rather walk or fly? Admittedly, many people would say "yeah, a nice walking trip through France over the summer, sounds lovely", which is fair enough, but I'd rather get the plane, as I'm sure most would.

Steroids still make a HUGE difference when you're still starting out. As long as you're training and eating right, and not doing anything stupid, they still work wonders.

I've not even started on the mental health benefits yet - huge amounts of research saying that testosterone is a much healthier, safer, and more effective treatment for depression/anxiety in men than SSRIs.

There's a reason the male suicide rate jumps up in the late 20s and again in middle-age. Testosterone levels. It's not a coincidence.
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>>40628999
Agreed, when you are 90kg lean and can bench over 110kg that's when you should be allowed to ascend, and that's been quite generous as the natty limit is above that.
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>>40628740
>Start roiding
>Get swole, get bitches, get confident
>Fuck around with sluts until you find a girl that you really like and start a relationship with her
>at some point she finds out that you're a cheat, play it cool first but its clear she doesn't respect you as much anymore
>after all you're just that guy that is swole and has no personality, and even your swoleness is fake
>you get insecure, it puts a strain in the relationship, she dumps your stupid ass
>you get sad, maybe depressed and of course life will kick you when you're down so you get your first negative side effect of roids
>go to the doctor and you can't hide from him, so you come clean and he tells you to stop immediately
>you quit because you never had a strong will to begin with, you just wanted the easy gains and attention
>A year later you look like shit and dwells in gyms telling kids you used to be hot shit but had some "health problems"

I've seen it happened more than once, and the only change is that one dude I know had a heart attack at the age 27 and almost died. But mostly all of them go through the same beautiful cycle.
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>>40629017
It is very common, when i started lifting at 16 i had no idea, im 26 now and i can point out about 10 guys in my gym alone who are on something or other.

Maybe there is the taboo but hiding it as if its something shameful only feeds that, if people are open and explain the advantages and disadvantages and that quite a lot of people do it without issue then there wouldnt be such a taboo, people would take it or leave it.

Ive never had an interest in it because ive managed to maintain a good body for years without it and my wife would rather i were smaller anyway. But those i know who are open about it i have no negative thoughts about at all.

I dont know how to resolve it other than pointing out the signs of frauding so that everyone knows and hiding isnt a viable option anymore.
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>>40629077
In fairness i used to be one of the biggest in my gym natty, then i got crohns and lost 20kg. But i dont think anyone thought it was frauding, just that i had no clue what i was doing.
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>>40629041
>Reaching your "natty limit" (again, very difficult to define in reality) can take years.

And?
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>>40629077
>>at some point she finds out that you're a cheat, play it cool first but its clear she doesn't respect you as much anymore

Fake, girls don't care if you roid or not.
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>>40629107
Eh, club sluts dont but they're disgusting anyway. I've known plenty of girls complain about protein shakes. All girls ideally want a guy who has an adonis body without doing any work for it, but the sensible ones are fine with the guy works, but not to vain extremes of cheming it up.
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>>40629107
>>40629077
All girls care about is if you give them the tingles, if you roid you're more likely to do that. Plain and simple.

If she doesnt respect you cause you roid then she isnt g/f material and you should move on
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>>40629107
>women missing an opportunity to take the moral high ground on you
Heh
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>>40629105
And that's a stupid term that means nothing. You can only use roids when you hit a magic arbitrary number some anonymous faggot told you about?

Yeah ok.
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Where would someone start when it comes to learning about steroids? I'm not a big fan of Internet sources but that seems to be all I can get. I would like to start taking them because I see that people get good results from them and I would like to get to their level after lifting for the past 6 years but I have no idea how to get them.
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Hurr I've been lifting for 6 months cmand com to fit I'm so knowledgeable! Cheating is roids. Yr not even at natty limit.
>proceeds to lift for 3 years and makes minimal gains despite good diet and workout.
>has low T doesn't even know it
Has Total T of 400. Thinks he can be a strongman and hes,not at his limit yet.
Roods are cheating! Everyone should be low T like me!
This is the majority of men. Definitely fit.
Slot of men these days have low or sub optimal T and don't even know it.
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>>40629141
Its not arbritary, it's the point at which any more genuine hardwork and education wont result in improvement. You've shown that you can reach the peaks your body can offer all on your own and from that point to progress there is no option but to fraud it. Anything less is actually laziness.

You can say fine to that, ok, but it's still laziness.
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>>40629137
What world are you living in?

You think the "girlfriend" Brad the Beefcake is porking cares if he roids or not?

In fact girls in America are probably the most likely to respond positively to roids (prolly where OP lives) since America is the most superficial country on the planet with 90% of all girls on Tinder literally shopping for men.
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>>40629153
>after lifting for the past 6 years

Post gains.
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>>40629169
If you have a low t you will likely already know about it. It doesn't just affect muscle development you know that right? Plus ive been lifting since i was 16, im 26 now.
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You should roid responsibly if you're on the low end of T/free T, don't listen to doctors that say that 300 is "normal" when you feel like complete shit.
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I use steroids.

I think the dangers in the public eye are certainly way overblown, but they are absolutely not side-effect free nor are they a quick fix for anything.

"Just one cycle" is a terrible idea and in 99% of cases does more harm than good.
Living naturally after doing a cycle is shit, to put it bluntly. You spend all your workouts remembering the aggression, strength and awesomeness of lifting when in the midst of a cycle. Making huge strength and size gains week on week.
You start to pine for that feeling again, and either go back to do another cycle, or slowly lose interest in spinning your wheels trying to make natural gains.

Your sex drive in the midst of a cycle will be raging, you will feel like a 15 year old again, but with the confidence of a grown man.
After your cycle, even with a good pct, you may find yourself having trouble staying hard just because you know your dick isn't going to go roid-hard and make her scream the same way.

You will probably end up with some degree of acne on your shoulders for sure. Also maybe on your back, face and chest if you don't control your estrogen levels correctly. This can make you paranoid if you are the type to want to pretend you're all natty.

You will shed hair more than normal, which is scary, but if you aren't predisposed to MPB its nothing to worry about.

Your blood pressure may increase, due to the effects increased test has on RBC production, but this is easily mitigated if you donate blood towards the end of each cycle.

All this said. If you are happy to commit to using steroids for the rest of your training life, then spend a long time doing research. If you are unsure about whether you want to or not, then don't do it. Wait until you are sure you are happy to commit.

The rewards steroids give are amazing if they are truly the rewards that will make you happy. If you are hoping for something to fix your shitty personality, fear of rejection or self-loathing in general, steroids aren't the cure
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>>40629107
That's what they say but then the first fight it's all
>You aren't even a man
>You have to take testosterone because you aren't a man

Women are cunts and will always use everything against you. Your mother, your upbringing, your health. Nothing is off limits
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>>40629218
No certainly, but you're fooling yourself if you say "1500" is where im meant to be at.
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>>40628740
I dont get it i just looked up D-bal the product and it just has a couple amino acids in it and nothing more, whats the deal here? what is the active ingredient that makes it work?
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>>40628904
>>40628980

Thanks for the help guys, I am situated in Latvia as a foreign student and initially I thought a local source would have been advantageous, I will do more research and find a good online source instead, much appreciated.
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>>40629243
> he's just learning that fraud celebrities sell you absolute pisswater telling you its what they used to bulk 30kg lean muscle in a year.
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>>40629171
>Using every tool at your disposal to become the best version of yourself possible is laziness

lmao fucking nattys

Better throw away that calculator and start doing long division again
Better start lifting sacks of flour and hay instead of iron
Better get all your protein from the deer you kill and stop going to GNC for your cheating supplements and the grocery store for the meat you were too lazy to kill on your own

>>40629180
You need to stop watching so much reality TV and get off 4chan

America is nothing like that, only Hollywood and loud minorities
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>>40629243

The active ingredient is something called "Le Merchant".

>get some DMZ. worked for me.
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>>40629259
yeah thats what i was thinking I never was interested in steriods but wanted a little knowledge since ive been lurking here i have a degree in biomedical science so they really cant trick me, but i did learn d-bal is the legal counterpart to dianabal which is the illegal steroid that probably actually works
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>>40628740
>>40628826

OP, this guy is on point. If you do roids correctly and are moderate in your approach, you will do just fine.

For all of you idiots who are saying that women won't respect you for doing roids, they don't give a shit. All they care about is like they say on redpill, the tingles.

Mr. Molyneux did a great interview with a male stripper. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UY5lYjfFHYg

This will give you insight into the power of roids....male strippers get multiple women A NIGHT. Women are complete sluts, just like men, if not more. Plenty of women right before their wedding night have Bachelorette parties and they will fuck male strippers with impunity because MUSCLES.

I tell all guys who go to the gym after a year or two, jump into roids, get jacked cause the bitches love muscles, and its like you equipped with a knife going to a gun fight. Plain and simple.

Really that's the best analogy. You are bringing a knife to a gun fight if you are natty and you want to really compete.

If you are a serious natty (2 times or more a week consistently) you are better than a majority of dudes in the US, but competition is so stiff that roids are almost necessary.

I've done the rounds boys. I've been to Wet Republic. These guys in this photo? More pussy on a few weekends than the average beta NEET in a fucking lifetime.

Girls that go to Vegas go there to get fucked. And guess what? The hot ones do. It's a total meat market, its the wild west.
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>>40629262
None of those things are illegal though nor is the line of thinking wrong. I recommend cooking your own food from scratch instead of buying it, repairing your own clothes instead of buying new ones, walking where you can instead of driving. None of these involve interfering with your biology either and nor do people commonly lie about them. No-one ever turns up at a meeting from the other side of the country and starts insisting he walked and then offering to give walking tips to everyone in the room despite them pointing out the car keys in his pockets.
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>>40629300

On the TV Screen behind them:

Toronto 9 Boston 1

>my sides......
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>>40629180
Like the other anon said you're out of touch with reality bro, unless you're dating some shallow gym whore or a club rat that doesn't give a shit about anything you're gonna get an earful of crap out of any girl if they find out you're roiding. Any decent girlfriend won't just sit and watch you fuck yourself over, specially if she is a normie that doesn't know much about roids. Hell normies think that protein shakes are dangerous and will kill you.

As for respect, maybe if you have other hobbies that make you really interesting they can overlook the fact that you're looks are a fraud. But even then, any girl that cares about you for real will be against that.
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>>40629300
Roiding for... that?
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>>40629300
> 2 times or more a week consistently
> this is what roiders believe counts as serious gym going
>>
Seriously just go on your local hot chick's instagram and she if she goes to Vegas or Miami with her girlfriends.

If she goes there and she's hot wearing her skimpy little suit, she is getting railed by a beefcake roider. Nearly guaranteed.

You will still land tail if you are natty but roids really bring things to the next level.
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>>40629349

lol, you got the wrong end of the dick brah, roiders go to the gym pretty much every day because steroids make the gym so much more fun.
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>>40629338
Agree, not so much with the "fucking yourself over" because girls will believe protein shakes do that, but that they look down on the cheating and vanity side of it. At least any half decent girl does, sure you can bang club sluts but i dont want that. Tbh most girls i know seem to identify a high natty point as their ideal, im already too big for some girls' tastes and ive never cycled.
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>>40629349
>Thinks that you have to go more than 2 times a week to be fit

You're a moron if you think you cannot get gains and be fit by going 2 times a week minimum. It's called full body workouts and circuit training.

Some peoples' bodies do not need to go more than 2 times a week (full body) to stay fit. Everyone is different.
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>>40629362
No, i know roiders go often - the recovery time is absolutely decimated so they can gym non stop. That's why most professional athletes get on something if they can - not to be big, but to train constantly.

My point was that its telling that that's the sort of routine a roider will have been doing whilst he was natty.

> train biceps and chest on wednesday
> train biceps and chest on fiday to get that pump for friday night
> get blasted on mdma and alcohol friday and saturday night
> wonder why they aren't making any progress
> must be the xeno-oestrogens
> jam test in their asshole
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>>40629193
Most people don't know they have low T unless their dicks don't work. And of course low T won't stop muscle development but it sure as fuck slows it down. I benched 270 and was stuck there for a year before I went to 275. I has 161 total T. Most retards on fit dont even lift that baby weight. Now I do reps with 215 after trt from a doc for 13 weeks.
How fast you make gains is in fact real with low T. Yes you'll make progress but damn is that retarded slow progress. Yet fyckers will cry "muh natty limit!" You'll never hit your limit like that. Not before your joints give out.
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>>40629338
>Thinks girls care about roids

Can see you've never roided.

Girls only care about tingles...the hot ones anyway
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>>40629383
You can be cardio fit sure - you wont be big. Getting it all in in two workouts is either over training in that workout, or not training at all.

Any decent natty routine will be 6 days a week, about 4 for lifts and two for cardio.
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>>40629405
What trt did the doc give you? I cant imagine he gave you anything useful for the gym.
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>>40628740
Barebones?
>stigmatized
>mostly safe if used properly
>should be prepared for the worst possible side effects Ie. Sterility, Dependence/addiction, heart problems etc.
Really just wait until you're 35-40 When your test drops. Then start trt and really shart cashing in on 10-20 years of training.
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>>40629407
Nope. Not overtraining either if you know your limits and know your body. I work with PT's, some people respond very well to circuit training/full body workouts.

Everyone is different you can't put a same size fits all routine. You dont need 4 days a week for lifts...lol
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>>40629405
Aren't there continuing effects from T cycles? I know AI counteracts the present side-effects, but once you come off it ive heard you are left with reduced test levels going on.
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>>40629458
If you want to get anywhere near your limit you absolutely do. Two sessions in which you are including circuits and lifts is laughable.
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>Horny virgins that put pussy in a pedestal as the ultimate achievement in their shitty lives and think its worth to roid just to fuck random club sluts
Thats my favorite /fit/ meme, even more funny that you need to put your life in the line just to get laid by literal whores

Look OP I don't know your reasons, but if you're already fit like you said you are and you can't get a gf the problem is not your body. Unless you're professional body builder, high performance athlete or willing to risk your health to get your dick wet, you have no reason to roid.
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>>40629231
Dude then its not about the roids, its about the relationship. Roids do not define the relationship, just your physical attractiveness and dominance.

If she is saying that then your relationship is already done for and you should move on.
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>>40629480
And the fact that normal muscles blow girls' minds. The only girls who need guargantuan bodies are desensitized whores who have seen so many cocks thrust into them they need differening ab numbers just to tell them apart.
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>>40629479
Its not laughable at all when its a very intense workout doing compound exercises and lifts.

What's laughable is you just dismissing it without doing some research and talking to some PT's. There is no defined number of workouts people need to do to get "there" its all different. Hell I know people that went 1 day a week to the gym and made more progress then your 4 day a week split routine nonsense.

Dont be so closed minded fitness is not a 1 size deal
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>>40629480
They are not random club sluts bro. They come from somewhere. Those random club sluts are way more close to home than you think.

Any girl that's above an 8 and single for more than a few months most likely has gotten railed by multiple chads at Rehab, the Marquee etc. Its the nature of the "dating" market. There are no restrictions.
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>>40629536
I used to be a gym manager 20-23. You can't get all your fitness needs met in two sessions unless they are pure cardio. You shouldnt be training cardio and lifts in the same day so that's already more than two. Then anyone who really wants to reach the top will be doing strength and hypertrophy splits. Im sorry but 2 days will not be sufficient for anyone.
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>>40629536
I'm not that anon but i am literally laughing at you.

Please shut up.
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>>40629467
No that's bullahit. Doctor said he can get me off with hcg alone. And my t levels might even be a bit higher natty.
There's nothing wrong g with t cycles forever as Long as your blood pressure isn't high for long period of time which you can take care of Mines 114/64.

>>40629417
240 test c
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>>40629624
That amount of test isnt nearly enough to count as a cycle though is it?
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>>40629606
>>40629587

That's because you do legs

If you do full upperbody you can use just two 2 hours sessions to mantain

legs are a meme, I prefer to sprint on my rest or boxing days
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>>40629587
>>40629606
>Thinks that you need to do more than 2 sessions a week to get jacked
>never heard of full body

What is this, 2006?

Lol
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>>40629659
So you have sprint and boxing days, so aren't working out just twice.
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>>40629635
Some people consider it but it gets my t levels at like 1300/986 through out the week. High end top %2 of natty teen males but it's still medically ok. One injection per week. However I'm blasting my own dose of 250mg test c as well and given the vitamins I take and cardio my blood pressure is still never high 114/64. You just need good AI which mine come from the doc. And maybe so thing to help with high bp like coq10 or ubiquionol which are vitamins you can buy. As long as you aren't doing insane amount of teen (anything other than test) and orals and you manage your sides you'll be fine. Test itself is pretty harmless.
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i legit have T on the low side and yet even i managed to get to 4pl8 squat, a bit over 3pl8 bench, 4.5pl8 diddy as a natty at 5'8 and around 175 lbs and my lifts are still increasing.

would it be faster? no doubt. but don't think that you can reach your genetic potential that fast
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>>40629686
Yes, if you are doing your cardio and then full body lifts in two sessions a week you wont be jacked. Not even close. Even doing pure lifts twice a week will leave you in shit form.

You need to be doing accessories and strength/hypertrophy splits to be getting anywhere near natty limit.
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>>40629702
Nevermind i thought you said your test was 130 or something, over a thousand is definitely cycling.
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>>40629701

But boxing and sprints do jack shit to your upperbody, if anything it cuts recovery hard between your sessions and make you lose mass and strength in favor of endurance
>>
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Here's a redpill for newfags:

You only need to micro-dose dianabol to make mad fucking gains. Ive done a few cycles to both bulk and cut on dianabol-only cycles. Take one blue heart for a 100 days and if your workout and diet is in check you can have the body of Poseidon. Do a month of nolva pct after 100 days and repeat.

I laugh at the heroin enthusiasts who pin 500-700 test and look like complete bitches infront of my cycle. I challenge anyone to test this out for themselves: one blue heart a day to bulk, 2 blue hearts a day to cut.
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>>40629728
Yes but you need to do cardio if you want any sort of heart and cardio health to help with lifts as they get harder.

Plus no-one should ever just lift with no cardio, its hardly reaching any sort of natural fitness limit if you aren't fit.
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>>40629732

lets see your body Mr Shit.
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>>40629745
Doing heavy sets of deads and squats are a better cardio than running and destroying your knees jussayin
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>>40629606
Ok some people seem to be slow here so let's do the math:

You do a full body workout, which includes, like, everything.

For some people they recover slower than others, so we need a 2-3 day recovery time.

Monday plus three days equals friday, then three days equals Tuesday. You can shorten that to monday, but in general that equals a 5 day recover time per week interim.

Hurr durr 2 times a week works, whaddya know, math can be useful.
>>
>>40629766

No it's not, you don't do sports probably and you would get gassed out really quick if you tried
>>
>>40629330
That has nothing to do with my post.

Anon was saying that roiding before his magic natty limit number was lazy. I showed positions where taking advantage of technology isn't lazy.

Your point has to do with lying about what you do, which isn't what I was talking about.
>>
>>40629494
Oh I did. Just saying it's not beneath women to use that against you.

She used to tell me I was a piece of shit because I'm an only child and my parents raised me wrong lmao

God she was so hot tho.
>>
>>40629709
Way faster. You're T has to be like below 300 to rlly notice a difference in how fast you progress. That being said you prolly won't reach your natty potential ever anyway cause your already low Test will just get lower as you are. It will eventually feel like walking against an escalator. I mean if youre into being normal strongish and have abs/ decent size of muscle to "look gud" and impress girls you shouldn't worry about it. Since girls think fucking think more Zac even is big. If you're trying to be a thicc guy men respect and women respect prolly won't happen. Not talking Ronnie Coleman big either
>>
>search pics on transformations in dianabol, tremboline, and related

>laugh at the dyels

All those transformations could be achieved at a year most

laughing at the morons falling for the steroids meme without knowing how to train first
>>
>>40629725
My test was 161 When I was natty I said. Why the fuck is my T going to be 130 with yet that's crazy. And no the normal range is 280-1100.
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>>40629766
No its not, not for your heart and lungs but also i never said running. HIIT, swimming, cycling etc are all much better but all cannot be done on lifting days if you dont want to be spinning your wheels.
>>
>>40629725
With trt*
>>
>>40629773
> working all muscles in any actual comprehensive way in one work out

You must have only been gyming for a week m8
>>
>>40629801
>All those transformations could be achieved at a year most

You keep telling yourself that.
I laugh when dyels put a timeframe on anything they haven't achieved yet.
>>
>>40629810
No i meant 162, then with the doc giving 240 - how does that make over a thousand? Plus 1100 is not the normal human range.
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>>40629824
No, I've been going for years, in fact full body got me into lifting. I used to do that routine of 2 days a week when I first started and I got pretty fit, so I have to agree with the other anon - 2 times a week works.

No, its not optimal for someone who wants to be absolutely "maxed" out natty, but for a more casual gym goer who is not an athlete and wants to be fit and look good, and still have time to do other things, that is enough to get you relatively fit. Hell it worked for me.

You can pretend to be a tough hardcore gym rat by telling people that they absolutely need to go 4 times a week to see gains, but for someone like me that actually got gains, I can tell you that you are full of shit and its just ego stroking.
>>
>>40629845
>how does that make over a thousand
use units
>>
>>40629863
This was never a discussion about what you need to do to not be fat, it was a discussion of what you need to do to be great. So it doesn't really apply.
>>
>>40629845
yes it is dude its the first thing that pops up on google. its not going to fucking kill you lmfao. i knew a guy who was natty and has 1005 Test. its rare but its still medicaly ok. dangers of "steroids" which are many compounds we're talking about the safest most natural one here ( test ) comes from untreated sides like high blood pressure sometimes cause by high estrogen. thats why you take an AI.
>cycling TRT doses
why?
>>
>>40629801
>12 weeks vs a year
Hmm

>Thinking training is linear
Hmmmmm

>>40629825
>I laugh when dyels put a timeframe on anything they haven't achieved yet.
This
>>
>>40629883
Yeah, it does apply. You can be "great" by going 2 times a week doing full body. Apparently you never heard of the term, everyone has to do split routines like a retard to get jacked? Wrong.

Try doing bench press, lunges, pull ups, arnolds, weighted bench jumps, maybe some pushups, circuit train that, and tell me that doing that for 2 times a week wont get you strong and fit.

If you say it doesn't then you're a retard and you know nothing of the human body and how it works. I did that shit 2 times a week for a year and I lost a fuck ton of weight and got very strong. It applies.
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>>40629845
i think you're confusing Test level and Testosterone dosage.
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>>40629825
>>40629896

hahahaha the triggered /fraud/ who cruised and gained nothing

Yea you need to blast to get gains amirite, i bet there are natties out there with better bodies than you both top kek
>>
>>40629907

I'm not a roider m8.
I just laugh at people who put timeframes on something they haven't achieved. Its the absolute redflag of a newb to lifting.
>>
>>40629907
why even bother being that autist that still "trols" ppl? for what? why. trying to relive past glorys? trying to be anonymos? why. fucking hate weak bait and shitposting. i never thought i would notice normies on my boards.
>>
>>40629899
Again i never said anything about non-compound routines. you cannot be great working out just twice, you will barely be able to walk up stairs due to being so unfit and will be a skinnyfat mess.

Your suggested workout is a mess, there;s no pattern to it or design so as to not intrude different movements on each other.

But please post your CBT. Then further doing accessories is absolutely a must if you want to get a great body, you'll need to do ab work, bicep work etc.

Im not having a go, but there's a reason everyone in this thread has been confused by your 2 day plan.
>>
>>40629925

>being this new
>>
>>40629901
I likely am, i dont know what they are both measured in
>>
>>40629936
"The normal range of testosterone levels in healthy adult males is between 280 to 1,100 nanograms per deciliter (ng/dL), reports the University of Rochester Medical Center. It's important to determine if a low testosterone level is due to normal aging or if it's due to a disorder."

my total testosterone natty was 161. you can read what kind of testosterone you should probably have for your age. 161 is that of a 60 year old even 40' year olds have at least 400 total testosterone.
a 240mg shot of testosterone cypionate once per week raised my total testosterone serum level from 161 to 1300-986 through out the week with 986 being the drop off ( its lowest probably the day of my shot). is that better.
>>
>>40629986
Hmm maybe i should get checked one day
>>
>>40629934
>hes advocating how tired of he is of my faggy edginess
>mus be new
yeah
>>
>>40628826
this!

also another good site http://www.basskilleronline.com/index.shtml
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>>40629190
Not gonna post pictures but stats

550 dl
450 squat
330 bench
205 snatch
275 c&j
225 ohp
>>
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>>40629929
>Im not having a go, but there's a reason everyone in this thread has been confused by your 2 day plan.

"Everyone"? Where? I just posted it a moment ago. No one except you are talking about it.

>Again i never said anything about non-compound routines. you cannot be great working out just twice, you will barely be able to walk up stairs due to being so unfit and will be a skinnyfat mess.

Not at all. Do you know what skinnyfat is and how you lose fat?

You lose fat by taking in less calories then consuming. If you were a newbie, like me, then you have the magical ability of both losing fat and gaining muscle for a little while, which is exactly what happened to me.

I went 2 times a week because I found my muscle recovery was slower than others. Do you know what that means? It means that if I went more frequently, I would have had atrophied my muscle development - which uhhh, leads to skinnyfat.

Now, for the workout: Ok it looks like I have to break this down for you:

Bench works your chest. Naturally, we also want to work your posterior chain, so we do pullups which work your back and stabilizer muscles. Lunges work your legs, the entirey of it, and is one of the best functional exercises out there. (most underrated of them all IMO).

So we already have chest, back, and legs covered.

Arnolds work shoulder, a little bit of chest/arms. Bench jumps is another leg workout with more cardio element. Pushups is more chest, with some core work. If you'd like we could also throw more core work into the workout as well.

And what do you know, you have a full body workout. Since I took 2 - 3 days to recover, I ended up going only two days a week. But boy did I work and sweat in the gym. Unlike other guys doing split routines who looked like they were gonna fall asleep in the gym. Kek.

And I saw gains. I eventually bumped it up to 3 days a week. Huh, interesting how the body works huh?
>>
>>40629929
That's just a rough example of a workout I would do, you can throw in accessories like Bicep work at the end of the workout if you'd like. Sometimes I did that. But I was gaining so much and so fast that I didnt really care.
>>
>>40630056
There have been several posts not mine im afraid. You just said you were new so that's really the end of the conversation - you wont have got nearly to the point that we're talking about.

But as a tip if your recovery is slow its either because you've just started working out that muscle or you aren't eating enough.

Pull ups are not enough for back, you need rows and some stabilizer exercises - which pull ups aren't. Deadlifts are good, pull ups are good, rows are good, back flys are good.

You have no arm pull movements and almost nothing working traps. Nor should you be finishing off with pushups on a day when you've done chest.

Then saying add more core? You'll be overtraining and building no muscle at that point being in the gym for 2 hours. With still no cardio to speak of.

Im sorry but anyone here will tell you that you are on an absolute travesty of a program.
>>
>>40630056
>>40630113
In fact as a tip: go make a thread asking what people think of your program, you will get torn apart.
>>
>>40630113
>>40630056
ALEX GET OUT REEEEEEEEEEE
>>
>>40630113
No, there haven't. I have not been posting in this thread this entire time.

What are you talking about? Pulls ups are one of the best stabilizer exercises out there.

It's a body weight exercise. Any body weight exercise including pushups, pullups, lunges, are actually famous for building up stabilizers.

Rows are nice too, but they are not always incorporated into my workouts, usually they were incorporated into the second workout of the week.

Deadlifts are absolutely horrible for beginners because of the dangers they pose. It's an advanced exercise really only for athletes and real gym rats. I guess its good for people who want to act tough on message boards and post their gains on instagram, but in real life its not needed.

What I posted was not in sequence. Meaning I would not be finishing off with pushups. Many times, i would actually do pushups in between sets.

I am not sure how "adding more core" is overtraining since there were no main core exercises to speak of. Sure, pushups work core, but its not an exercise that focuses on it.

Your ideas on working out are archaic and outdated - at best. I suggest you do some reading on functional body movements and how the body loses fat and gains muscle. Especially on bodyweight exercises. Saying that pullups are not enough and do not work stabilizers is laughable. And, well, thanks for the laugh.
>>
>>40630238
There have been, several posts are clearly not mine. Listen im not having a go, i want you to be in the best shape you can and if im not convincing you then thats not going to help. Im on my way to the gym now so cant talk more - but make a thread about your program and see what others think if you wont listen to me at least.
>>
>>40630128
I might do that. I enjoy debating and destroying idiots, its a fine sport.
>>
>>40630282
*le tips fedora*
>>
>>40630282
Anon, it doesnt seem like you are from /fit/. Just as a forewarning, 4chan has its own form of group think. There is nothing wrong with your workout routine, especially if it worked for you. These guys are just busting your balls. Everyone thinks they know the perfect routine. They don't.
>>
>>40630274
Anon is right. Pull ups are actually known for their ability to build up foundational strength, and target a variety of different muscles in the back and arms, primarily lats but also biceps delts and traps. Anon posted a very reasonable beginner routine, even intermediate.
>>
>>40630413
>>40630362
No he didnt
>>
>>40630413
Pull ups do nothing for the core come on, stop watching herman vids
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>>40630477
Almost all of the compound exercises work core including pull ups. Abs are not a primary target but pull ups do help them. And Anon didn't say pull ups are for abs so idk what you are talking about.
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>>40630503
I didnt read anon, im just saying if you're thinking you can get away with pull ups for core you're not going to make it.
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>>40630457
If you think so then you have alot to learn, lay off 4chan and do some reading.

Hint... Compound exercises are king... Bodyweight included
>>
>>40630528
Doing the same exact compound workout twice a week and calling it quits is not king. In fact its shit-tier. There's no cardio, no accessory and poor movement crossover.

Sure fine for a total beginner to get used to lifting but the thread has been about lifting to your peak.
>>
>>40630551
No one said its the same thing week to week learn to read the thread.

Cardio is not needed if you just want to look good. Hell it's not at all even if you want to be "healthy". Cardio is a myth, shame on you if you still believe you need to do it.

Accessory is another myth, it's not needed until you are lifting for years.

Bench jumps is movement crossover....

You will look good doing a routine similar to the one Anon posted. It's not perfect but it has all of the core elements of a full body workout. Just more 4chan group think.
>>
>>40628740
>Are they as dangerous as some people make them out to be? Do they permanently change and/or damage your hormone system? Does it mess with your sex drive?
Theyre very powerful drugs so yes they do all those things.
>>
>>40630551
Anon here, I am the guy who posted the routine.

That was just an example of a routine I would do for one workout.

There seems to be a misconception that there is no cardio, actually there is. There is cardio throughout the entire workout because I circuit train and superset.

So no the thing would not last 2 hours, my workouts never go above 40 minutes. I do not rest for a very long time in between sets, I go on full blast once I enter the gym. Every time I exit sweating.

I don't believe in the term "accessory" because many of the workouts that are considered accessory are very important for muscle development IMO. If you mean things like biceps, triceps, then those are added at the end of the workout as I see fit. Compound is more important.
>>
>>40630113
Not him but since you are tearing apart programs, just moved from greyskull lp

Push
>Bench 4x12
>Squats 4x12
>Tricep extensions 3x12
>Calf raises 2x15
>Planks and sit-ups

Pull
>Deads 4x12
>OHP 4x12
>Lat pulldowns because too far for pullups 4x12
>Cable row 4x12
>Ez curl bar 2x12 wide grip 2x12 close grip

Anything glaringly stupid?
Missing any muscles?
>>
>>40628978
>To say they're not magic is stupid when we all know you pile more muscle on sitting doing nothing on them than lifting natty.

fucking idiot kys retard. there are A LOT of people at /fraud/ that took all kinds of shit but look worse than 3 year natty lifters.
>>
>>40630842
your routine is beginner level at best. In fact, anything that gets you moving your ass out of the house will work for a beginner.
However many of the anons in here are interested in improving either in strength or muscle mass, neither of which can be achieved with a beginner routine, which is the point of this thread. I don't know what you want to prove with this.
Also your know it all, holier than thou attitude isn't certainly helping your case either
>>
>>40630903
that's because they have shit genetics/routines to begin with. However the fact that they are building muscle by sitting on their ass (even if its very little muscle) still remains. you butthurt fraud.
>>
>>40630896
whoa dude thats a lot of reps
That might work for a roider (then again anything works for a roider), but if youre natty, 3-6 rep range would work better for you
>>
>>40631119
Thought six rep range means strength and high reps means size / hyper trophy?
>>
>>40631042
>your routine is beginner level at best.

Feel free to have your opinion. Its pretty clear theres many people on this board that have pre-conceived notions on how a proper workout is structured, and are not willing to hear anything else. Seems like there are alot of powerlifters (only I've heard the term "accessory" from them) on here.

>However many of the anons in here are interested in improving either in strength or muscle mass, neither of which can be achieved with a beginner routine

See, you are revealing how little you know of muscle development. A "beginner" routine, even doing bench press, squats, rows, and calling it a day, will trigger muscle development. As long as you are taking in more calories then you are expending, and doing some kind of progressive overload, you are going to get stronger until you hit plateau's.

Also, the point of this thread is about steroids so we've gone way off topic, yeah...
>>
>>40631197
>Feel free to have your opinion. Its pretty clear theres many people on this board that have pre-conceived notions on how a proper workout is structured, and are not willing to hear anything else. Seems like there are alot of powerlifters (only I've heard the term "accessory" from them) on here.
You're not making any point here. Nobody is saying powerlifting is the only way to train. But the routine you're suggesting is factually ineffective for rapid gains. Please present us a good routine and it will be taken in consideration

>doing some kind of progressive overload
Now I know you're trolling. How can you have progressive overload with the routine you suggested (pushups and pullups)? unless you are counting a lean mass weight gain but that is laughable compared to what you can add with heavy barbell compounds.
Barbell squat bench dead and ohp are recommended for a reason, they are the ones you can move most weight with, thus have a higher "progressive overload"
>>
why do naturals have such a butthurt knee jerk reaction to steroids? Its like religion fanaticism tier. I don't even use them, but they always shit up legitimate threads with their moral and "natty limit" shit

is it sour grapes?
>>
>>40631428
Like other anon said earlier ITT, the fake natties shilling their BS supplements and giving false expectations, and claiming that roids don't help much when they're exposed as frauds, are what give roiders a bad name.
If everyone came clean about roiding, and didn't try to profit about it, nobody would have a problem
>>
>>40631363
>But the routine you're suggesting is factually ineffective for rapid gains.

The consensus (at least the science of it) is that compound movements give the biggest gains in the shortest amount of time. It is very factually effective, and others have agreed.

>progressive overload with the routine you suggested (pushups and pullups)?

Many people cannot start off doing full bodyweight pullups, so they use a pullup assistance machine. Doing full, unassisted pullups alone is a feat unto itself. You can tie a weight to your body for more load if you so wish for pullups.

Pushups can also be done via progressive overload. You may place weight on a person's back, and change the routine. Progressive overload is not just weights either, you can also do something like burpees or mountain man's.

There are many ways of exercising. I suggest you open your mind a bit and do some reading.

Barbell, squat, bench and deadlift are memes propagated by hardcore lifters on the internet. Please go to a personal trainer and tell them this nonsense and they will laugh in your face. Everyone is different, some people dont even have a base level of fitness to do those exercises, some like me have a bad back, so we have to be careful doing exercises like deadlifts and squats.

Its a fucking meme, you do not need to do the olympic lifts to get fit. You. Do. Not. Have. To.
>>
>>40631363
And yes pullups and pushups are considered compound movements.
>>
>>40631363
>How can you have progressive overload with the routine you suggested (pushups and pullups)?

Fucking /fit/, you're embarrassing yourselves today.
>>
>>40629051

That's pathetic that's not a good ratio at all.

Thing is you faggots COULD get to the roid size naturally if you worked FUCKING HARD like you're supposed to and then get all them discipline gains and shit, but instead you're just gonna be roided faggots. gl hf
>>
>>40629300

Don't need to roid for that shit

not mirin at all
>>
>>40630896
Anon what if instead of having a fuck off huge number of reps per set for relatively technical compound exercises you upped the intensity significantly and did 6x6? You'd get nearly the same overall volume and you'd be moving significantly more weight overall.
You need volume to grow, but volume doesn't necessarily have to come from only 4 sets with fuckoff huge numbers of reps per set.

Also do hamstring curls or RDLs instead of high rep deadlifts.
>>
>>40632534

Do kettlebell swings. Train some Jiu Jitsu while you're at it.
>>
>>40632585
Kettlebell swings are dope as fuck man
Again, don't do high rep deadlifts with significant weight, it really ups the risk of injury and they're an absolute nightmare to recover from.
>>
>>40629330
>I recommend cooking your own food from scratch instead of buying it

We got a magician here.
>>
>>40628826
You're supplementing growth of muscle - for degeneration of your collagen tissue in your face.

You're essentially shooting yourself in the foot if you want to look better - since you'll look older in the long run.

Furthermore, getting off it in the long run will fuck you up as your test levels will be very unlikely to get back to there original set point. Since your balls won't produce any for a long time from negative feedback from test levels in your blood.

Lastly, we have very little idea of its long run effects.
It could be mutagenic in the long run in supernormal levels - remember, pinning 500mg Ethanoate gets you a 3000+ level of test vs 600-700 usual in puberty. We literally have no idea.

Medicines in large quanities become poisons - don't spread misinformation.

GP's as a whole have no idea on steroids since their curiculum doesn't cover it in medical school in bodybuilder use. They're not going to research it either unless they specalise since it has very little application.

YOU'RE SPREADING MISINFORMATION.

FINALLY, STEROIDS CAN CAUSE YOUR HEART TO SWELL - along with your increased cholestrol levels and whatnot, you have a much higher risk of heart disease as a steroid user.

t. endocrinologist
>>
>>40632693
Oh - also, look up myocardial infarction, you can get this and not notice.

Zyzz probably had this and fucking died.
>>
>>40629330
Ok, do you plant every carrot you eat? Do you spin the thread for your socks from a sheep you ewed?

Nobody is saying a dyel should walk in to a pharmacy and start cycling the day he picks up a dumbell. Every needler has wormed out for years before.
>>
>>40628740
>Are they as dangerous as some people make them out to be?
Yes. You'll get a bunch of failhards telling you "kek just do it right bro and the risks are minimal" but you get the health issues even if you do. Plus when you do it in small amounts you might as well just be optimizing your own testosterone production instead, otherwise it's a wasted effort.
>Do they permanently change and/or damage your hormone system?
Yes
>Does it mess with your sex drive?
Yes
>>
>>40632717
Oh, and you have two options:

1. Cycle
You'll feel shit when you're off the cycle and start to Blast.

2. Blast
Never travel any where cause steroids can't be travelled with
Massive damage to health because of no rest time to body
Fucked up for ever if you ever get off
Massive increase in heart disease risk
Large risk of infertility
You age 5 years in 2
>>
>>40632693
>>40632693
>>40632693
This a thousand times this.
>>
>>40632615
OK, will do.
I think 3x5 wasn't working and one of the gym regulars pretty much told me my form was shit while I was going for a progression and had him spot me.
He suggested I do high reps low WT.
Tbh I just want something to lift while I cut this fat and to look good naked when it's gone. Weight lifted is a far back priority
>>
To get this thread back on track, I find that I am simply too sceptical to believe these anons who claim that steroids are "harmless" and have "no downsides if you use them correctly." Anything that sounds too good to be true, usually is.
>>
>>40629300
is this a male butterface support group ?
>>
>>40632950
Honestly if you're just focusing on form something that might help is doing a shit load of triples.

What are your lifts might I ask?
>>
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I think my body has regular test levels but for some reason massive natural conversion to DHT, i have pretty much all the side effects of roids

>hairy shoulders, actually hairy everywhere except my upper back. full chest hair growing up my neck, and my hair severely thinned around age 21-22 but stopped. quit taking creatine here
> amazing muscle gains (for my strength levels) but its not easy for me to move heavy weight even though i focus on strength
>always had face and body acne, my face is a lot better now that im in my mid 20s but my back, ass have lots of zits and i always have a pimple or 2 on my arms/shoulders/thighs/chest


anyone else in the same boat? i guess everyone assumes im on steroids (maybe not because im not lean enough to be vascular). Probably gonna juice when im 30 or whenever I lose the rest of my hair but who knows, I don't have a big urge to since im still making gains after 5+ years natty. Tend to always be one of the biggest guys in the gym, and usually the biggest if you dont count the obvious blasters with exploding delts/traps/bald red heads.
>>
>>40633054
Triples?
Can't tell you my one rep max or it'll start a fit humor thread (also never found it)
3x5 was doing
OHP 1 50 lb dumbbell per hand
Bench - 155
DL and squat both 2pl8
Fuck I'm weak
4 months of 3 or 4 times a week, less frequent but did go before that
>>
>>40633178
you are too weak to make gains doing triples regularly since your form and intensity regulation is likely doodoo, you need to play around more with frequency/volume, find your sticking points or form breakdowns in the big three when you do them with good form, then hammer random assistance lifts for those sticking points until you find ones that feel really good, then focus on progressing those and see where your main lifts go in response
>>
>>40633163
It's not to do with DHT conversion most likely.

Probably to do with genes.

I.e. Polymorphism of a gene expressed leading to higher levels of phophocreatine in muscles - leading to higher explosive strength - or increased levels of myoglobin - increasing aerobic capacity.

Acne - your diet could be causing it because of high levels of fat or humidity - or any other factors - it's a complete shit show to diagnose.

Hair thinning - Family history of it, perhaps - or because of diet.

Who knows, you might have high levels of DHT.
>>
>>40628848
Fraud here, I don't walk around claiming to be natty but I don't exactly spout the fact that I roid either.
It comes down to the fact that it is illegal and is considered so negatively by normies. I don't want to have to explain how it's actually safe and shit to every person who notices how fit I am, therefore I usually just blow the question off.
If a fit person I trust asks I will tell them though
>>
>>40628800
fpbp
>>
>>40633307
OK so if my dl is shit due to bad grip, I buy like a stress ball or something?
>>
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>>40629407
>Any decent natty routine will be 6 days a week, about 4 for lifts and two for cardio.
>>
>>40633694
do more exercises where you grip a barbell till you almost drop it.
easiest thing to do is drop sets of rack palls till grip failure for every set, at the end of your deadlift day
>>
>>40629153
Reddit steroid wiki is one of the best resources for beginners
>>
>>40633695
He wasnt wrong, when i was at my absolute best form i was doing just that.
>>
>>40628740
>legal steroids
so shitty version?
>>
>>40632493
Guy from earlier, i meant for reps - 8 reps of 110kg isnt bad at all. I dont do 1RMs because i dont ego lift.
>>
Quick question, if you are naturally very strong without any workouts beforehand does this mean you have high test?
>>
>>40634324
Strength is an odd one, if you were naturally high test you would probably be more visibly muscular but strength relies on a lot of things beyond pure muscle. Connective tissue, nervous activation, bone structure, activity etc etc.
>>
>>40634324
Could mean you're retarded (retard strength)
>>
>>40634356
are retards high test?
>>
>>40634341
I see well I'm naturally big I'm 6ft, have wide shoulders, 50 inch chest and 42 inch biceps.
>>
>>40634375
24 inch* sorry
>>
>>40634356
autistic funny enough must be true
>>
>>40629041
>UK to Spain
>France over the summer
>not swimming directly to Spain
Lunglet detected.
>>
>>40634375
how can people be this dense

if strength depends on every other little thing except size

then why does every single weightlifter in the same weight class have exactly the same circumference around their quads when they compete at a similar level?

its absolutely impossible to have a smaller person being stronger than a larger one if their other parameters are the same (height, bone ratios)
>>
>>40629171
>You've shown that you can reach the peaks your body can offer all on your own
Right, and I could cross the country by walking instead of driving or flying. I *can* go on a trek, people do it, but people also fly and drive and get to the other side just fine. even if there's a much higher chance of getting into a wreck along the way.

>Anything less is actually laziness.
And? Laziness that produces the same end result is called "efficiency."
>>
>>40629360
3/3 of those fuckers are gross... Try again bitchtits.
>>
>>40628826
>If you were to cross the Atlantic would you get on a plane, or swim?
where would you land when in the atlantic you fucking retard
>>
>>40632693
how can you be an "endocrinologist" and still buy all of this propaganda crap?

did your "studies" even include any research newer than from the 1980s?

what the fugg, m8

also, its not supernormal

its supraphysiological

but any actual endo would know at least that much
>>
>>40632693
I notice you didn't cite a single medical journal article, and I know this is because there are zero studies supporting your theories of permanent gonadal suppression. The serum lipid degradation is well known however, I do not dispute that and the associated cardiac disease risk is obvious.
>>
>>40635672
lipids are affected by orals not most injectables

cardiac risk increase slightly

ball cancer risk decrease slightly

risk of dying increase/decrease? nobody knows
of course at body builder huge dosage, sides are considerable unless you have your personal doc to give you an arsenal of ancillaries
>>
>>40635486
My question was if I have all of this then does this mean I have high test?
>>
>>40629300
hahahahaha all of these guys look like complete shit
>>
>>40635706
if you feel good and make gains, stop worrying
>>
>>40635606
>>endocrinologist
>>graduated from Baker college
>>
>>40629136
None of the guys in that picture roid- I guarantee it
>>
>>40630113
Its a sad day when pullups are considered a "not enough" exercise. I consider it the King of back exercises.
>>
>>40629225
thx man
>>
>>40629986
Did you notice any effects in the gym after you started taking it? Did you get any bigger?
>>
>>40630896
>Pull
>OHP
you sure
>>
>>40629300
>roid
>still have shitty fashion sense
Why, that's an overnight fix
>>
>>40630026
lol, pic or gtfo
>>
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>>40633497
FUCKING THIS.

god you fucking retards...
> normie natty stranger comes up to you
> "hello! do you do illegal steroids? i was curious and just wanted to know!"
> "I certainly do! Please don't tell anyone, because it's illegal and I could go to jail."
> "Don't worry, you can trust me, someone who is jealous of your looks and too afraid of needles to roid myself. I will keep your illegal secret my friend!"

this is literally what you guys are asking.
>>
>>40632693
Guy you're replying to here. Just drove back from London and I'm fucking knackered, but trying to take this in.

You post theories, but no evidence. At all.

As someone at the start of my usage of steroids, I'm happy to read and take on any/all evidence it might harm me in the long run. But until I get a peer-reviewed scientific article, I have to take your "evidence" as utter brainwashed bullshit.

PCT will restore your natural test levels, that's tried and tested a million times over.

LVH is also not the same as Athletic LVH, which is what steroids cause. Athletic LVH is perfectly healthy.

You also can't fucking spell, at all. So are obviously talking utter shite. I'm happy to take your views on board. Hell, if you provided evidence, I'd stop using gear and even campaign to make its use illegal so guys don't harm themselves. But you're giving me nothing.

>>40632717
Zyzz died from a DIAGNOSED (not even an undiagnosed) heart defect. His brother had the same thing, but he ignored it. Again, do some fucking research.

>>40635083
When it comes to swimming, I might as well be black.

>>40635588
>being this fucking retarded.
Ever heard of Heathrow or JFK airports?

>>40635606
The guy can't even spell.

>>40633906
Perfectly legal in developed nations.
>>
>>40628800
fpbp
>>
>>40629051

I've been doing fitness for 1 year and can bench over 110kg natty. I'm 165cm.

Will I turn into a manlet hulk if I roid?
>>
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>>40629243
you are obviously looking at steroid dot com. that site has wonderful information, some of the best, but they survive by peddling bullshit fake supplements with names that are similar to real steroids. pic related.
>>
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>>40629262
lol exactly bro. i was thinking about this the other day.

> year is 2020
> scientists reveal they have invented a drug called Smartafil
> raises your IQ 50 points
> "side effects include: may raise cholesterol, may cause drowsiness"
> affordable, less than $30/month

of course fucking 4chan genZ cucks refuse to take it.
> MUH NATTY BRAIN
> DEGENERACY
> IT'S A JEW CONSPIRACY!
> U CHEATERS. U SUCK. NATTY BRAINZ 4 LIFE.
>>
>>40633038
THEN DONT FUCKING DO IT.

jesus christ why do nattys insist you sell them on the idea of roiding?

stay natty bitch, it just makes me look even bigger.
>>
the only confirmed roid side effects are that they turn you fully dick-in-your-mouth homo. if you can live with that, then go ask your mom for the credit card.
>>
>>40636677
lmao
>>
"Ummmm, excuse me, do you use steroids? Oh you are? OK I'm not fucking you. Even if those big muscles give me the tingles, tee hee!"

....
......
....AHAHAHAHAHAH WHO ARE WE KIDDING
>>
>>40636937
KEK they get uglier and flatter as you look right to left
>>
>>40636981
Lol true didnt notice dat, thats mighty perceptive anon
>>
>>40636937
> wanting girls like that
Normal girls will care, its like getting ass implants as a girl - sure guys who dont give a fuck will slam you but it'll turn people off from a ltr.
>>
>>40636525
> "i-i-i lie so that they wont report me to the police, not because im so cripplingly insecure that i want people to falsely believe ive really made it!"
>>
>>40638142
fake and real tits are actually a different substance though. It's really obvious. Steroid muscle and lifting weight muscle is still muscle.
>>
>>40629766
Fucking shut up man and leave this thread. You have zero credibility anymore.
>>
>>40636525
There is actually a obvious roider in my gym with a shirt that says "Naturals are my breakfast"
Thread posts: 214
Thread images: 24


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