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Supplements

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/fit/
Can you really make it without a good supplement?
>>
most supplements are useless.
I've been lifting for 10 years now and tried most supplements available on the market. The only thing I still use is a preworkout when I'm feeling tired
>>
Ask Zyzz
>>
>>35004618
You don't need supplements to make it. Period.
>>
Ive been natty for 2 years of working out on and off, a year of lifting religiously. Wanted to get bigger and decided to buy LGD-4403. Its been a week, and ive made gains in one week that would take months of being natural to make. Not to mention i can work harder in the gym and recover quicker as well. In short, you can make it without a supplement, it just takes much longer than without.
>>
>>35004684

is this legal?
>>
The only thing I supplement at the moment is B12.

Anything else a natty should take?

Not interested in creatine.
>>
>>35004618
shit like multivitamins have been proven to actually have negative impact on your health

a good and balanced diet is the best, cheapest, easiest and healthiest thing you can do (note that i didnt write fastest)
>>
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>>35004684
>LGD-4403

tell me more
>>
>>35004722
yes its legal, its a SARM. Has anabolic effects without the liver toxicity of anabolic steroids
>>
>>35004841

where did you buy it ? can you take a picture of what you bought?
>>
>>35004684
>much longer
No it fucking doesn't.

>ive made gains in one week that would take months of being natural to make

Impress me. I've added 30 kg to my benchpress in 2 months (from 130 to 160) while only gaining ~5 kg of mass (85 to ~90). Been eating nothing, but eggs, beef, rice, pasta, vegetables, bread and drinking milk. For only ~40 pounds a week.

Go ahead, meme some more about supplements. Nothing will ever beat normal food.
>>
>>35004804
Its a SARM. Has anabolic effects without the liver toxicity of anabolic steroids.
>>
>>35004848
I got it from ebay. Its Super LGD from Primeval Labs
>>
>>35004752
>multivitamin
>negative
Not unless you get some lead spiked chinese shit or you have a genetic kidney weakness. No.
>>
>>35004667
I can't he is dead...
>>
>>35004855
Bigger as in stronger or physically bigger.
I'm trying to stay aesthetic.
>>
>>35004849
Well thats great that your making progress like that while staying all natural, all im saying is that you would be able to have much better gains with the aid of a supplement. Im not talking about how much i can lift specifically when i said i made gains like that, aesthetically i am much bigger and vascular than before taking anything.
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>>35004872
I started super laxo from them it's been a week and I like it. after im thru with that im going to take a break and then try putting together a proper stack. but IDK fags everywhere saying SARMs are just a placebo
>>
>>35004684
I can't find much information about it, only articles on shady unknown websites mostly about steroids. Would love to actually see a study about it, I would buy that shit in a heartbeat.

One particular site says you should still do a PCT once you're done with it though, so be careful with what you're doing m8

>>35004925
It says an increased gain in LBM and lowered bf% where I can find some information.
>>
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>>35004925
LGD is great for aesthetics, im trying to stay relatively aesthetic as well. Pic of me today.
>>
>>35004957
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22459616
>>
>>35004670
What's motivation or an alternative to supplements? A gf is mine, but I really need some fucking help to burn this fat off me :(
>>
>>35004982
what the shit

all the websites about dosing are saying take between 5-10mg/day depending on what you want to do and this study already shows ridiculous results for doses of 0.1mg/0.3mg/1mg daily vs placebo

I'm always super skeptical about non-steroids results like this, something must be wrong about it
>>
>>35005079
Are SARMs worth it for someone whos beginning and overweight? Will I just get crazy beginner gains much quicker? Raise my BMR and improve my quality of life as I cut?

and yes I am cutting and lifting but I am 30% bf
>>
>>35004982
>>35005079
Seriously, what? This is some test pinning level of shit. Why have I never heard of this before?
>>
>>35005097
Just starting out you can get great gains by eating right and getting good sleep. SARMS will help you to cut fat and gain lean muscle, i would say its really up to you, do some proper research first.
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>>35005106

same here, been browsing about it for the past 15minutes. Apparently it's not sold in any traditional supplement store yet it's still perfectly legal
>>
I take fish oil, zinc and vitamin D.

For that mood boost.
>>
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>>35005142

oh they also sell liquid cialis. intredasting
>>
>>35004959
get a haircut man, that helmet doesnt look good on you
>>
>>35005172
Just wanted to grow my hair out a bit, curious to see how i look with longer hair, im in a wierd phase between long and short hair
>>
Alright, I've done some basic research for the past 30 minutes or so and the results seem to be 100% real with next-to-no sides BUT... a PCT is still recommended once you're done with your (usually) 8 weeks cycle so be careful with what you do.

Just the fact that a PCT is needed is enough to shy me away from it, I'd rather run a real cycle if I still need to PCT once I'm done. Maybe one day.
>>
>>35005132
Yeah I've looked people say ostarine.. Doing everything right, dropped from 240 in april to 216 now. Its just brutal slow, I started lifting just a couple months ago consistently.

I know most of the SARM muscle gains are done with extra calories, wondering if any research is done with lgd 4033 or ostarine on those who are overweight and eating under maintanance yet lifting.
>>
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>this whole thread
>>
>>35005224
What does pct involve? Just taking nothing or?
>>
>>35005255

PCT = post cycle therapy

basically it's used after a steroid cycle to get your hormones levels and shit back to ''normal''. Not sure whether that's oral or injectable though, I'm not a roider
>>
>>35005244
LGD seems to be amazing for everything from bulking, recomping to cutting, you just use different dosages. If you're really overweight and just want to lose weight, I think DNP would be your best bet though.

>>35005255
PCT is "post cycle therapy," you take some more shit once your cycle is done to stabilize whatever changed from taking whatever you were taking. In LGD's case, I can't find much information sadly.

>reddit
https://www.reddit.com/r/steroids/comments/34be0c/need_advice_for_ai_and_pct_for_a_standalone/
http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/pct-post-steroid-cycle-therapy/lgd-4033-now-lets-talk-about-pct-cycle-1141043.html
>>
>>35004618

Roids desu
>>
The real question is will I still be considered natty after taking LGD
>>
Where would I buy this LGD-4403?
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>>35005350
>will I still be considered natty after taking LGD

no
>>
Where are all the people that seem to be taking LGD-4403 manlets?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4iRFEl1mvc
>>
>>35005379
well why the fuck not?
>>
>>35005252
It sure seems like it. Has anyone here actually taken LGD-4033 before and seen results?
>>
i take fish oil, multi vits, vitamin d and zinc, sometimes st john's wort
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>>35005428
The initial guy said he did.

It's a fairly new (3-5 years) SARM though, but all the literature on the internet points towards it being the closest thing to an anabolic steroid there is without the sides, plus it's oral. There's a study linked above and you can check out all the typical steroids forums.
>>
>>35005425
SARMs are gear too, they're just oral steroids 2.0.
>>
ITT: bunch of retards

LGD and most other anabolic sarms will shut you the fuck down just like roids so gonna need that PCT. No you aren't still natty its artifical muscle building stuff.
>>
Supplements are a meme

Except for roids
>>
>>35005501
No it doesn't, i haven't had problems getting or maintaining an erection faggot fuck off, PCT is useless and causes more side effects in most casses. It shuts you down if you go above 15mgs a day, if you stay at 5-10 you should be fine.
>>
I love how test, which works by nonselectively modulating your androgen receptors to build muscle is an evil roid but sarms which selectively modulate androgen receptors to build muscle is a harmless supplement.

You people are deluded.
>>35005528
almost like 15mg daily isnt enough for more than placebo.
>>
>>35005528

>estimating your own test levels from erection status.

Retarded..... LGD is stronger than test and is shown to shut you down at all worthwhile muscle-building doses

Inb4 sauce CBF getting it.
>>
>>35005528
>he doesnt realize synthetic non-test androgens will suffice for restoring sexual function

test is not necessary for boners
>>
>>35005501
see >>35005106 (no PCT, test levels back to normal)

>>35005542
see >>35004982

0.1/0.3/1mg are all already SIGNIFICANT improvement over placebo. recommended dosage is between 3-10mg depending on your needs

also nobody thinks test is an "evil roid" lmao. people are scared of test for multiple reasons: pussies scared of needles, the million sides that aren't there with LGD (gyno, acne among many), etc. I guarantee if test was a pill you could just eat once a day with no sides, everyone would be on roids
>>
LGD-4033 suppresses for the duration of your cycle. It doesn't shutdown below extremely high, non recommended dosages.

You don't even really need a PCT, but it's recommended to use one to go back to normal levels faster following the suppression. Again, no shutdown.
>>
>>35005528
lol
>>
>>35005602

Why wouldn't I get acne from sarms again? Swear people say you can still get it.
>>
Try ostarine it won't shut you down
>>
>>35005688
it also won't give you any gains
>>
>>35004684
Im on week 4. Lgd4033, 5 mg ED. Hooooooly shiiiiit, my gains have been amazing. Plus my outlook is so positive. That shit is amazing. Takes some guts to take the plunge tho..
>>
>>35005224
The latest consensus is that PCT is NOT needed and may even fuck your shit up more. The suppression is very different than typical gear
>>
>>35005350
Fuck no.

I fucking love LGD. Just hope they dont find out it causes serious disease in 10 years. Thats the big risk. There are very few studies and most were on cancer patients.
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>>35005831
Link to info? I see AIs aren't needed/may cause more problems than they solve, but tamox (specifically nolva) seems recommended due to the slight suppression.
>>
>>35005831
>>35005106 is pretty scary shit though.

It took 5 weeks for test levels to go back to normal once the cycle was done on 1mg ED and it was only a 3 weeks cycle. There's sadly not enough information out there, but I'm pretty sure for a 3-5 mg ED, 8 weeks cycle, it'd be pretty fucking terrible for a few months, especially with already low test dudes.
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>>35005859
>>
>guys talking about SARMs
>implying SARMs are supplements and not drugs
stay stupid, /fit/

to the OP, almost every supplement on the market is worthless, except some specific nutrients (fish oil, vitamin D, maybe some other stuff like certain amino acids for specific uses) and stimulants (ephedrine, caffeine, etc) and/or pre-workouts.

The other stuff that actually works (and from the right source is the same price or even cheaper than using a lot of useless supps) are drugs, Clen, Tren, SARMs and Test. I think some vials of Test E and needles is going to give you more bang for your buck than *ANY* supplements you can buy in your quest for strength and/or aesthetics.
>>
>>35005873
Go to r/peds on reddit. Lots of bloodwork / reports indicating nolva may be overkill.
>>
>>35005224
Weighing in here. I went from 128 to 135 on 7 weeks of ostarine. Bench when from 135x6 to 165x4 in that time. No sides so far, going for another week. No ED, jerking it 2-3 times a day still rock hard. No gyno, no acne. Rest periods are half what I'd normally do. No PCT planned other than an otc test booster/ai. This shit makes you a beast, I've done double work outs in day several times because I feel up to it. People keep asking if I am on roids because I've gotten big so fast.
>>
>>35004618

This entire thread is a shill.
>>
>>35004684
been looking at this myself, trying to find a site with good purity ratings.
>>
>>35005528
It does.
>>
>>35005688
ostarine also will shut you down. Fuck off.
>>
>>35006099
Got mine from bluesky. Shit is cash
>>
>>35006178
Big difference btwn shutdown and suppression. Osta does not shut u down.
>>
>>35005935
>believing professional shills lying on the internet
lmao

enjoy dying soon.
>>
>>35006205
in that case, neither will running 500mg test a week
>>
>>35004841
>implying SARMs are legal
kek
>>
>>35006226
yeah after reading more on the forum, they are professional shills, fuck em indeed
>>
>>35004667

He taught me that a post workout sauna is the key to joocy gainz.
>>
>>35006277
r u fucking retarded
>>
>>35006323
let me guess, anabolic sterons are legal too?
xDD
>>
SARMs are fucking new to the market and have barely had enough widespread testing or long-term effects testing

If you take them you're a fucking retard, at least wait a couple years until there is more peer-reviewed information available
>>
do you guys recommend starting to take a pre workout? do the pump and volume benefits last beyond when you actually use the stuff?
>>
>>35006396
no. Don't get me wrong, they work at first, but you become dependant on them, and they burn out your CNS. You'll basically become immune to caffeine as well. I'm not sure about the pump and volume benefits, but I would assume they make no difference as far as actual muscle building.
>>
>>35006464
thanksfor the input

i currently use whey, multi vit and fish oil .... anything else i should look into for a basic, daily stack?

i appreciate the input but feel like i may be able to use something to push myself a bit further
>>
>>35006489
Only other thing would be cycling creatine mono every other month or something, if you don't have any balding traits in your family.
>>
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Guys, do you know any sups that increases libido?
>>
>>35006541
horny goat weed and maca.
>>
>>35006396
PWOs help immensely with motivation/hyping you up and they help you push through the pain to get more reps, indirectly improving your strength gains. Also pump aesthetics.

There are no REAL, direct benefits for strength or mass though and it's recommended to cycle so you don't build up too much tolerance or become addicted so it's really up to you. I personally love the pump and the kick it gives me, but if you don't care for that or you don't have the money to throw around on that, don't bother.
>>
>>35006541
that scenery is completely ruined by that average chick
>>
>taking a legal sarm to get steroids gains with no sides and no pct
>>
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>>35006652
>>
>>35006567

I hear so many great stories about this product. Will try, thanks.
>>
opinions on caffeine as pre workout?
>>
Im so tempted to go on a cycle of ost its not even funny. Im debating on if im gonna do it and if i do itll be when i cut, i heard its great for cutting/ recomp, im kinda fat so this would get me shreds and gains, so fuckin TEMPPPPPTED
>>
>>35006914
ran 2 cycles. not worth it desu senpai..
>>
>>35006914
Do it, pussy
>>
>>35006938
Why is it not worth it
>>
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>>35004684
>>35004957
>>35005791
>>
>>35005962
Is this in kg or are you grill?
>>
>>35006977
gains are not that great. you end up exposing yourself to something that may cause cancer or other problems. on top of that you fuck up your endocrine system. Everyone who says you dont are shills. All those faggots claiming >muh no PCT >muh use it correctly are full of shit.
>>
>>35007016
Its still really tempting to use for my cut coming up in mid january, low dose i think 15 mg to keep gains and keep making strength gains, thoughts on this?
>>
>>35007052
15mg isnt low dose. The clinical trials for muscle wasting were done at like 3mg and shown to be a lot.
>>
>>35007060
So you dont think i should use it to cut?
>>
>>35007088
I mean it would work fine for cutting, I just dont think the benefits outweigh the cons. I view DNP as longterm safer than sarms.
>>
This lgd shit sounds too good to be true. A drug with all the benefits of roids without the side effects that's legal? Gotta be a catch.
>>
>>35007088
I wouldn't use lgd on a cut. It's a much better bulk tool.
>>
>>35007109
>thats legal
lel here we go again.
>>
>>35004959
Draw your hair back senpai, or get a man bun+ stubble u slay puss dis way
>>
>>35007117
I can go on amazon or ebay to buy it, figured they didn't sell illegal stuff.
>>
>>35007109
Its fucking awesome and I love it.

Taking risks is part of winning. Its also why your gf stares at me when your not looking.
>>
>>35007130
Dont buy there. Go to a real RC lab like ceretropic
>>
>>35007130
Eventually it will get pulled. Those shady supp companies do this every few years and have to re release "new formulas" to get around whatever is currently banned or illegal.
>>
>>35007134
>my gf
y-yeah

Well all I need to do now is a little more research, and hope that my parents don't ask what I got in the mail when my package comes. (not underage).
>>
>>35007109
>>35007134
>>35007143
PLEASE EVERYONE IN THIS THREAD READ THIS!
there is a catch to using SARMS, especially LGD-4403. IT WILL SHUT YOU DOWN. meaning you need to do post cycle therapy. You have to respect this stuff
>>
Goddamn, there's no free pass here guys.
As of right now anything that works like an anabolic steroid will have similar negative effects on your natural hormone production.
It's like if "test boosters" worked the effect would be no different to low dose TRT.
>>
>>35007109
The catch is that it's relatively new and there are almost no studies done on it. If you're willing to risk that, it does sound fucking amazing. Keep in mind that maybe studies will come out in 5 years saying that it causes cancer and makes your dick fall off after a few years.

>>35007194
You should read the thread. LGD at <=5mg ED DOES NOT SHUT YOU DOWN. It suppresses for about 2 weeks post cycle.
>>
>>35007194
stop preaching bullshit, you don't need PCT, while LGD is suppressive while taking it, your natural hormone production will resume as normal after stopping your cycle. No PCT is needed.
>>
Will sarms give me acne?

Just finished accutane don't want it coming back
>>
>>35007229
natural hormone production always will resume as normal after stopping any cycle (sarms or roids). PCT does not return your levels to normal, but does help speed up the natural process.

Yeah you don't "need" PCT after a cycle of roids/sarms, but why would you endure 3-6 months of low test instead of 2-3 weeks? You gonna lose all the gains you cycled for mang.
>>
>>35007229
STOP SHILLING YOUR SHIT IN HERE. FIND A BETTER WAY TO MAKE MONEY YOU CUNT
>>
>>35004752
Over-supplementing has, but taking a multivitamin or a few supplements even is fine, so long as you're not relying on them for nutrition. It's why they're supplements.
>>
>>35007357
Test levels return to normal without PCT after about 3 weeks already.

There is zero proof of any PCT actually helping with LGD.

>>35007372
LGD isn't a brand, no source has been posted anywhere in this thread. Those are some pretty poor shills.
>>
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>>35007372
someone doesnt want 2 make gains
stay natty, fag
>>
>>35007446
>Test levels return to normal without PCT after about 3 weeks already.
Proof it.
>>
>>35007446
>LGD isn't a brand, no source has been posted anywhere in this thread.
Except there has. They are trying to be subtle because more and more people have started to become aware of shills on 4chan.
>>
>>35007453
see >>35004982

now this is where you prove that they don't AND that PCT helps with any of it.
>>
>>35004618

This made me kek

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUXfVUaZDtU
>>
>>35007139
ive been looking here. seemed shady are they for srs??
>>
>>35007613
I use bluesky, but there's a bunch of other good sources out there
>>
>>35007519
That shows the levels were suppressed & took time to go back. That literally agrees with what I said. How does that prove that PCT wouldn't have sped it up? Technically PCT is not needed, is what I wrote. If it didn't help though, people wouldn't preach it.
>>
>>35007930
What you said:
>why would you endure 3-6 months of low test instead of 2-3 weeks?

What I answered to: >>35007453
>>Test levels return to normal without PCT after about 3 weeks already.
>Proof it.
(which I did)

Now this is where you prove PCT actually helps. Before/after bloodwork, a study, anything more than "well people are doing it"
>>
>>35007127
i do usually tie it back in a bun, just didnt feel like i needed to for this pic lel
>>
>>35007534
I think we need to add 'lean and fat muscle' into the sticky, we've finally cracked the code
>>
>>35007942
The study you linked showed that increased dosages correlated with longer rebound times for test to return, correlating roughly with the length of the cycle.

They tested with 1mg ED for 3 weeks. Idiots ITT are running 5-10mg for 8+ weeks.

In your study, it took roughly the same length of time as the cycle for the rebound, like 3 more weeks. Idiots ITT are running 5-10x the dosages for 8 weeks, so saying that recovery would take 2-3 months with a "real" dosage is reasonable assumption.

You do realize that people can run 10mg ED anavar & skip PCT? This does not change the fact that PCT has been proven to speed up natural test recovery.
>>
>>35004618
the only thing apart from my "normal" diet are proton shakes, but you can also just eat something with enough protein instead, it's more of a comfort thing.
>>
>>35007987
The decrease in test levels isn't (and can't, by logical sense) linear and neither is the recovery speed. You have absolutely no science backing anything you're saying and your only argument for PCT is that it works for other cycles.
>>
Does that LGD stuff give permanent gains?
Or will all the LBM go away if one were to stop using altogether?
>>
Speaking of supplements, do you gus think fat burners are worth it?
If so which ones?
>>
Agreed with all people calling shilling. Supplements are mostly useless. You can make gains on anything, most of all natty. Candidly, with the amount of muscle building supplements available taking nothing is almost equal to deciding to not eat an androgenic diet.

Test Cyp/Ena/Und I feel is very safe and easy to come by. I don't like to inject but I would do it if I knew I were going to make at least [email protected]/wk. Test feels good, but coming down cleanly after more than 4 weeks requires a much greater volume of information about the human body than just starting the course successfully.

Long Supplement Review:

Ostarine - Slightly Dry/Uncomfortable. Definitely anabolic, take less than recommended dose and build up, long duration (24h). Modern SARMs / Oral Steroids are impressive but not terribly comfortable. Natty is "more comfortable."
4-Andro - Save your money. Nicknamed in my head "Grandma Test." Open a hormone conversion chart and see where these lie and you will understand why they are so estrogenic.
>>
>>35008622
How much you reco i take for a cut cycle? Im thinking 15 mg
>>
>>35009456
For ostarine that is, any supression or shutdown and at what dosages
>>
>>35004684
>>35004722
>>35004841
>>35004957
>>35004849


>Doing roids/anabolics
>Ever
>Hey lets take this unknown chemical what could possibly go wrong?
>why cant I get my dick up?
>why cant I cum?
>oh well at least I have some extra muscles
>why am I feeling so depressed
>how come I have cancer
>how come my kidneys fail
>how come my heart is fucking itself up
>why do I lose my hair
>totally worth the health risks man I have 1inch bigger biceps than before these unknown chemicals

fucking retards
>>
>>35004684
>>35005791
quit selling us your shit
>>
>>35008600
/this
What about that?
>>
are SARMS oral?
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