sup /fit/ Which do you prefer: High bar or low bar squat? I've

Allways did high bar, currently 120kg for 3 sets and 8 reps

>>32070095
Monitoring this thread.

Always done high bar but I'm considering low bar as well

>>32070095
Front squats are best for quads

>>32070095

I do low-bar squats, they work the most muscle mass. When you lift weights and don't have a long time to exercise low-bar squats ought to be a staple of any routine/program.

I am also on Starting Strength. But I hope to move into weightlifting and will have to naturally train the high-bar squat and front squat.

The low-bar squat trains the entire posterior chains, which essentially the entire musculature of the lower body. Such as the hamstrings, knee extensors group (i.e. quadriceps) and the adductors.

So for overall lower body strength the low-bar squat is ideal because you can lift the most and thus put the most stress possible allowing for the best adaption and growth.

Front squats are great unless you want to strengthen your quadriceps for either weightlifting or bodybuilding.

>>32070148

i allways wanted to give them a try.
but recently my left hip flexor started hurting a bit while squatting.
so i might skip squats for a few weeks.

>>32070095
Low bar allows to move more weight, so there's that and since you're already doing front squats you don't have to worry about getting weaker quads

>>32070148
Can you do them without oly shoes?

>>32070148
No shit, that's what OP is saying

>>32070200
Yes but doing them with oly shoes is much more comfortable.

Actually did front squats today using oly shoes for the first time. It was great and allowed be to move considerably more weight

>>32070095
personally i prefer high bar because my back hurts when i tilt forward in low bar

>>32070095
Low bar for me.

heavier weights make you cooler

>>32070245
Using a belt?

>>32070261
yes but i recently injured my back while playing basketball

>>32070095
Do low bar they said.
Work your posterior chain they said.
Thanks Mark, now I have no quads or hams, and the ass of brazilian pole dancer.

>>32070095
I like low bar because my legs fail before my back does; my back feels tighter and more stable and I can power through using my legs and ass. You are supposed to lean forward, but the back angle should not change during the movement. Ie your back should not hurt afterwards.

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>>32070484
Goddamn it dude, I just want to start lifting, but all this shit makes me so insecure. Low bar is wrong now?

>>32070566
To assuage your fears, it's mostly a joke. My thighs are about 26 inches. But yes, I do have a juicy butt.

>>32070566
no, he's just being retarded. His ass isnt that big and if you arent building your hamstrings lowbar squatting you are doing something wrong.
I squat 405x3 and have a 530 deadlift and don't have a big ass, I just never isolate my glutes.

>>32070599
Eh, I guess I need all the butt I can get. Feels like all I'm sitting on is bones. Thanks.

>>32070608
That's comforting, thanks. I can't do lowbar yet though, since my arms/pecs/shoulders whatever are too stiff. Got any experience with that? Will it eventually come by itself as I start lifting and working out? Or does it just make me stiffer?

>>32070566
Low bar won't increase your ass. High bar and front squats will. I say from experience.

>>32070095
high bar because of my proportions but I don't really squat at all

>>32070671
No ass at all? I kind of need an ass. Can't sit down on hard surfaces or bicycle seats without pain. Or at least I'm overly aware of sitting on my pelvis bone

>>32070648
>Catalog
yeah, take a stick and do this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxLR-Vrxyy4
pretty much everyday. I do it too warm up my shoulders when I squat, absolutely when I bench and even a couple times to get some blood flow on my pull day. In the mean time just use a wider hand grip on the bar, you can still squat lowbar with shitty mobility. That's why you see fat powerlifters basically with grip so wide their hands are on the plates

>>32070671
Bullshit, if you're going to depth (or beyond it) there is a negligible difference in glute activation between the two.

>>32070705
disregard that catalog thing, not sure why its there. but yeah, stop telling yourself "i cant do it", make it work and work your mobility while you do it, yeah it might feel awkward and hurt a little, tough shit.

>>32070322
dude that's a good thing Brazilian pole dancers usually have a 50" vertical

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>>32070182
>I can lift more weight so it must work my muscle better

>>32070712
You can't make that claim at all. A. the stretch reflex in highbar will lead more glute activation. B. The level of glute activation is super dependent on biomechanics and bone proportion and everyones will be different.

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>>32070671
low bar > high bar > front squats for ass and they will all increase your ass

>>32070095
Youll probably fuck off form or get injured because of lacking glutes/hammys, just like 90% of the people who do high bar.

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Keep doing your low bar and stroking your ego

>>32070705
Well I actually have to grip longer than that for low bar, and my fingers, instead of holding the bar go almost parallel with the bar out to the sides.

Been trying that shoulder dislocator thing for a while though. Barely getting it over my head without touching. Also can't get it far back enough to go all the way round. I guess it works since so many recommend it, though. Hoping for the best.

why not both?

>>32070760
/thread

>>32070769
Then get a longer pvc pipe or stick, the key is go as wide as you can when you can fully dislocate without bending your arms, then try and work your hands inwards, I want to clarify, working mobility should never be painful but sometimes lifting without adequate mobility might. Do the dislocates everyday, there is no reason not to.

>>32070759
People who do low bar get injured and then find out squatting didn't actually work their hamstrings enough like Rippletits said it would.

People who high bar squat actually do SLDL and glue ham raises so they have hamstrings.

>>32070095
The only reason to do low bar squats is that they allow you to lift more. If you're not concerned with lifting as much weight as possible, ie. you don't identify as a powerlifter, then there's no reason to do them. High bar is better for literally everything other than lifting maximum loads.

>>32070760
Rippetoe wouldn't lie, right? Is he really a kike puppet who's being paid to turn men into unattractive T-rexes?

>>32070760
You know some people will never be able to squat to depth highbar right? Proportions literally will not allow it. Different styles work for different people based on biomechanics, try both, don't be a zealot; you're only hindering your development.

>>32070095
Lowbar squats are based as fuck. They feel rock solid and much more stable than a highbar squat and you will even be able to lift more. The only downside is that despite being so solid and stable, to an outsider it looks like you're heading straight for Snap City and they will all tell you to do it highbar.

>>32070827
What the fuck proportions would not allow you to go to depth on highbar?

>>32070818
read >>32070827
Lowbar works much better for some peoples biomechanics, highbar works for others. Find what works for you.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Av3LO2GwpAk
Learn before you post.

>>32070827
If you can't squat to parallel with high bar you have some shitty flexibility.

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>>32070760

>>32070849
Watch
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Av3LO2GwpAk
Learn before you post.

>>32070840
>be able to lift more

I can rep 9pl8 on the leg press. Does that make it better than a squat?
With front squats, you inherently lift less than high bar back squats, does that make it worse?

>>32070566

Go on youtube and look at videos of people doing high bar and low bar and you'll realise low bar is fucking awful. This is an area where I'd expect a non-/fit/-educated person to give a better answer. They can see how dumb low bar form looks and how natural high bar is. /fit/ has been indoctrinated by fat powerlifters on steroids.

Lowbar looks fucking unnatural and awful. It's for fat powerlifters who have many rolls of fat on their back so they don't need to place it on their shoulders. They have so many rolls of fat they basically have a power rack on their backs with 10 bar placements to pick from.

If squatting is so natural that even babies can do it, why would the best way to squat be rippetoe's complicated as fuck lowbar? IIRC from the SS book, he spends like 30 pages going through lowbar form and then for high bar he spend about 4 lines (paraphrasing: "bend your knees and keep an upright upper body. Keep your knees out. that's all you need to do faggots")

Simpler is better m80. I started 4chan as being a /fit/izen and I now squat 400 lbs and I've never injured myself with squats. Yet I still have no idea why fitizens talk about the significance of keeping knees over / not over toes.

>>32070809
Can I do them without warming up?

>>32070854
watch the fucking video, yeah obviously a lot of people who can't squat highbar is because of ankle mobility but a lot of people also have limited dorsoflexion because of structural differences. Peoples bones are different lengths you mong. Before you start whining
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Av3LO2GwpAk
watch the fucking video.

>>32070903
They are a warmup. You should be doing them as part of your squat warmup, and absolutetly as a part of your bench warmup.

>>32070892
How is low bar difficult or complicated?

>>32070892
This. Lowbar is egolifting - the movement.

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>>32070892
Fuck you high bar is much harder and more complicated than mark rippetoe's kindergarden tier lowbar

>>32070919
Thanks dude

>>32070875
>tfw short trunk and long femurs

>>32070827
Not everyone can hit absolute rock bottom depth on high bar without some hip tuck, and that is dependent on hip socket depth. However, everyone, regardless of proportions, provided they DO have the right hip socket depth, can hit ATG with a high bar provided they've been diligent with their mobility and stability work. There are Olympic weightlifters of all shapes and sizes who do it every single day. Even if that weren't the case, which it is, then squatting to parallel on a high bar squat, which is where most people squat to on a low bar squat, would still be possible and any points about the exercise's merit would still hold true.

Learn before you post.

>>32070890
>on the leg press
So, not even half the weight really counts.

>>32070892

Also you'll get a lot of people on /fit/ saying stuff like:

>"i can't squat atg / to depth"
>"I have lumbar lordosis"
>"I have flat feet"
>"my mechanics suit lowbar. My body desires a bastard child mixture of good mornings and ass flexing"

Jesus Christ, I had never heard of any of this before going on /fit/. Don't listen o these people if you're healthy.

>>32070875
Just watched.
People with disabilities can't do certain things, duh. This thread assumes people without disabilities, of course.
>"I'm going to exaggerate it"
LOL
Obviously the guy isn't wrong about any of it, but this seems like a video that someone who's too lazy to squat deep would use in order to back up their bullshit when in reality it just shows how basically disabled people cannot squat properly, which is not a surprise to anyone.

>>32070890
>comparing the greatest compound ever to a stupid machine-assisted lift
TOPPEST FUCKING SHIGGIDY OF ALL APEX SHIGGIDIES

>With front squats, you inherently lift less than high bar back squats, does that make it worse?
Yes, they're worse, because they're the same compound lift that works legs and core. It's just that one of the two variations uses physics to make it impossible for your torso to lean ahead of your knees. The low bar becomes behind bar when you descend, and as a result you don't have to pay attention to your balance because physics will do the job for you.

>>32070958
WATCH THE FUCKING VIDEO. If you have a long femur and a short tibia, you can't go atg highbar. There are also myriad reasons that dorsoflexion could be fucked up and prevent it. That video is from the last biomechanics symposium, it's highly academic. Shut the fuck up and listen to the experts.

>>32070892
Great. Insecurities rising.

>>32070892
>Lowbar looks fucking unnatural and awful.
Yeah, because if you actually need to squat a heavy weight in real life you are only going to use your quads instead of your whole lower body musculature including your back... retard.

>>32070996

and if i need to deadlift a boulder off my foot irl then i'll bend my back... I won't train that way though

>>32070970
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGEKRjlZKf8
This guy isn't exaggerating. As for his credentials "Tom was the Biomechanics Specialist for the National Academy of Sports Medicine from its inception in 1989 until 1998. I"

>>32070959
>>32070979
I think you two missed my point. The guy I replied to said low bar is good because you can squat more. What I'm saying is just because you can increase the weight on a lift does not make that lift better.
I don't understand how you could take my comment as saying that the leg press is good in any way, it's shit.

>>32071004
>if i need to deadlift a boulder
No, you won't.

>>32070095
I lowbar squat atg. And i mean ALL THE FUCKING WAY, my ass touches the ground. I always squatted like this, and get a ton of looks at the gym, some mirin, most looking at me like theyre waiting for me to go to snap city

i have crazy flexibility, and I make sure to not lose tension in my quads, it took a lot of practice to get all the way down and keep everything tight.

2.5pl8 @ 160lbs btw, and I can do 2pl8 with a pause at the bottom

>>32070892
>highbar is natural, lowbar isn't
the joint angles and everything in lowbar is way closer to real world applications than in highbar. 3rd world squats, SVJs, everything is way more lowbar than highbar.
>If squatting is so natural that even babies can do it, why would the best way to squat be rippetoe's complicated as fuck lowbar?
because he doesn't try to coach you high bar form to its every little detail like he does for lowbar?

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>>32070970
it's not a disability. short trunk long legs is a common bodybuilding proportion. arnold had great trouble squatting to depth and could only do so with elevated heels

>>32071031
>I lowbar squat atg
Ok, you get out of here, idiot.

>>32070095

high bar because makes traps look big

>>32070892
So your argument against low bar is that it looks bad? Really?
Low bar keeps tension on your hamstrings, which is lost through a lot of the ROM of a high bar squat. If you want to recruit the largest amount of muscle mass possible, low bar squats are superior.
Also, I'm pretty sure low bar squats do go on your shoulders. High bar goes on your traps.

>>32071037
Don't bother with this guy. He's probably been lifting for like 6 months and thinks he knows everything. Give him some time and he will learn that everyone is different and there is no optimal for everyone, only optimal for you. Within general frameworks thats true for literally everything, nutrition and training.

>>32071043
What's idiotic about lowbar atg squats?

>>32070990
I watched your video. It doesn't change the fact that there are literally hundreds of people with less than ideal proportions who squat high bar, and if they don't go ass to grass, they go far closer to it than the average low bar back squat.

Your entire argument is based around the idea that if people can't squat ass to grass high bar then that invalidates all the benefits and differences between high bar and low bar, and they should subsequently only squat low bar. Which is a completely incorrect argument. You should calm down too, all this anger isn't good for your health.

Go heavy with low bar

Recently thrown in some lighter front squats as well to help my cleans and general "functional" strength as cringe as it sounds.

>>32071075
I never made that argument. My argument is simple and its the same thing this guy is saying.
There is no optimal squat style, there are some people who will do best with high bar, other's with lowbar. I think you should mess around and be proficient in both. Even within lowbar or highbar there is room to tweak things and change things if you know what you are doing, its all about finding whats most optimal for your body. This is true for basically every lift, I mean look at the variation in conventional deadlifts here. http://bretcontreras.com/the-keys-to-stronger-deadlifts/ Find what works for you, don't be a zealot

>>32071075
Also you can go atg or below depth lowbar. This is me squatting, lowbar and to depth. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iG7jA4SaC3w

I'm actually in the gym doing squats.
Tried low bar, 5rm for 8reps lmao.

>>32071131
But there IS an optimal squat style for different objectives. If you want to be a weightlifter, you have to squat high bar and front squat, if you want to be a powerlifter, you have to squat low bar. Regardless of your proportions, if you want to do either of those things, you don't have a choice. How do we define a squat style being optimal for an individual anyway? For some people, optimum is defined by the amount of depth they can get. For others, optimum is defined by the amount of weight it allows them to lift. For others, optimum is the particular muscle mass each lift recruits. Your opinion that everyone should squat whichever way best suits their proportions seems to be based around the assertion that everyone just wants to squat, and that they're not concerned with the different results the different squat styles provide.

>>32071065
ATG in general is totally unnecessary and will literally destroy your knees if you bounce off them (which you'll do). The muscle activation you get while going from paralel to ATG is minimal, it won't give you any extra gains. Not even mentioning the buttwink you are probably doing while not being aware, that will translate into an hernia. That said, going ATG in a LOW bar squat, of all kinds, is specially idiotic, and if you had actually read a thing or two about the different squat styles, you'd know why.

>>32070566
Stop being a pussy bitch and make your own destiny you faggot.

If you don't want to look a certain way, don't be a fucking retard. Lifting isn't rocket science. You workout a particular muscle and it gets bigger and stronger. That's it.

>>32071165
Why do white boy cucklets look so weird when they lift? Is their body just not meant for being strong?

>>32071202
I fucked my knee up bouncing. don't do it anons.

>>32071199
Yes, obviously if you want to do oly you should squat highbar, as for powerlifting, there are lots of powerlifters who squat highbar, especially in raw feds(its much harder to squat highbar in ply just because forcing knees apart is hard) Most of /fit/ are just squatting to squat. I would also posit that if you don't have the biomechanics to squat highbar well, oly isnt for you.

>moving the bar a few inches on your back changes the excercise significantly.
RETARDS
E
T
A
R
D
S

>>32071202
I definately don't bounce, I squeeze everything all the way down and don't dive. And you get a ton more glute activation by going lower, and I have no buttwink, sure my spine angle changes slightly because it's a lowbar squat, but my spine angle changes as I break parralel and stays static from parralel to atg. I'm way more flexible than you're imagining, my knees will flex beyond atg and I don't feel any strain on them at all.

Especially from ATG, it's all glute and ham activation from atg up to the first couple inches.

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Most people don't have the flexibility to squat high bar to depth without pitching too far forward, so I usually recommend people squat low bar to start, because depth is more important.
I personally squat low bar because I can lift more that way, and there's otherwise such a small difference that I'd rather have that extra load on my legs.
Start of December 2013 my max squat was 90kgx5, I now squat 140x4 @79kgbw, so I think I'm doing alright. Also pic related my glutes.

>>32071255
well considering I can physically do one and not the other to parallel I'd say yes

>>32071212
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qR5H4cTfQ4w 500 pound DL, i've been lifting for less than 2 years. Post a current picture of yourself or video.
thnx

>>32070919
I have shit flexibility, but I've found that if I squat or do dislocates before benching, I can't bench as much weight as I would have if I had opened with bench.
What am I doing wrong?
Squat high bar 3pl8 3x5, bench 90 kg 3x5, DL 190 kg 1x5

I figured I'd just keep benching before squatting, since I'm not planning on competing, but if there's a real solution to my problem, I'd be interested to hear it

>>32070182
This entire post is completely retarded
I dont even know why i bothered to read

>>32071299
w-why did you bite that bait anon

>>32071299
>that gay cross sign
Ok, you lost all respect right there.

>>32071299
Nice DL, but that setup was retard strong.
Also >lessthn2years, easy claim to make

>>32071299
>can't handle the banter
You look like a 60 year old narrow shouldered shit postured man

Why does high bar hurt on my traps but low bar feels fine?

>>32071317
I don't even know why you bothered to reply if you don't have any counter arguments ;^)

>>32071334
No pain no gain. This pretty much says all you need to know. Low bar a shit.

>>32071311
I think upper body muscles are more susceptible to general body fatigue. Being smaller and all.

>>32071334
Traps are not suppossed to be used to carry a heavy ass weight on top. Shoulders on the other hand... yes.

>>32071299
>that sign of the cross
>that set up

Kek. This is the face of autism. I hope you're trolling, anon.

>>32071351
So should i change what feels comfortable for me just to get slighty different muscle group activation?

>>32071357
Right, so you're saying the way my arms move to grip the bar on squats and doing shoulder dislocates fatigues my muscles so bally that it negatively affects my bench?
Do you suppose it could be circumvented by doing the dislocates long before I go to the gym, or are there any other stretches I can do that are less taxing on my muscles?

>>32071396
I got really badly injured playing rugby when i was 17, after that I started doing it before kick off, when I started lifting I did it before PRs, now it's part of my set up. I know it's lame, I don't care. I know everyone and am friends with everyone at my gym so Im comfortable acting like an idiot when I do my set up.

>>32071396
the fact that he even replied was the biggest sign of autism

>>32071424
I'm only saying your not going to bench as much if you do 1 hour of cardio right before and get on the bench fucking tired even if you didn't use your upper body muscles at all.

>>32071351
>No pain no gain.
Ahh, the good old Snapcity slogan.

Why don't you just do leg press?

>>32071424
With your stats, you shouldn't even do bench and squats on the same day. What program are you on? You should be on some kind of high intermediate / advanced program.

Please don't tell me you are on SS or TM.

>>32071311
I don't think its the shoulder dislocates, its highly likely to be the squatting. When you do the dislocates, you don't have to do a lot of them. Like 5 or six, I would spend some time when not in the gym doing them for longer but yeah, you're just doing it to loosen up. As for squatting before bench, you're burning a ton of glyocgen so especially if you arent bulking you wont have as much energy, you're also taxing your CNS pretty hard. It's not surprising you are weaker after squatting.

>>32071476
jajajjajaja

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>>32071476
This lol. Squats are a dangerous meme exercise that just make you unaesthetic.

>>32071520
i hope you're not thinking TM is only meant for people coming for SS e.g. starting intermediates. even quite advanced people can do TM as it is highly modifiable

>>32070095
I like to let it roll back and forth like a nice massage.

>>32071567
If you want to maximize both the bench and the squat workouts you should do them on different days, for example switching to a PL style upper/lower like Candito's 6 week program.

>>32071545
>squatting makes your knees better
I can't believe I actually trusted those people. Not only does it sound completely wrong, knees also fucking hurt when squatting.

>>32071643
>knees hurt squatting

You know how I know your form is shit?

>>32071626
TM can be done as 4 days/week program

>>32071643
Ok, tell me how you squat, then I'll tell you why you are doing it wrong.

>>32071663
But this is not the case, is it? That anon is saying he benches and squats on the same day and because of that is bench is suffering.

>>32071311
>>32071452
Right, so my bench suffers because squatting is heavy, gotcha.

>>32071520
I'm actually on a bastardised version of Stronglifts - I took out OHP in favour of more benching and skullcrushing, and, well, bench before I squat.
I'm still making OK gains, but I'm starting to worry more about my bench than my squat; As I stated earlier, I'm not training to compete, and I feel that my squat is adequate, while my bench and deadlift could be a bit better.

Lowbar Elbow Pain reporting.

I think it might be a flexibility issue or my skeleton/delts don't make a shelf. I completely fuck up my elbows squatting low bar.

I reached 110kg in 4 months, and now I deloaded to 90kg to fix form.

I'm either holding the weight partially with my hands (so it doesn't slip) or I'm pushing hard from the top towards my delts (again, otherwise it slips).

My left elbow gets fucked out of it's mind. Help?

>>32071750
I don't believe you are consistently adding weight to the bar 3 times per week.

If you don't, please switch programs, you are underperforming

>>32071793
It's possible you have a repetitive stress injury where the ulnar nerve running under the elbow cap is inflammed. As weird as this sounds, stress your wrists
http://www.physioadvisor.com.au/assets/256/images/15779256(300x300).jpg

http://www.physioadvisor.com.au/assets/256/images/12979256(300x300).jpg

Also take an ibuprofen everyday. I'll be honest, your elbow will probably continue to hurt, the only cure would be to deload. So either switch to highbar for a little while or just tough it out and eventually compressing the ulnar nerve via stretching will sort it out.

>>32071688
so if he switches to 4 day TM, problem solved

>>32071793
Also from what you describe it sounds like your torso is too upright, especially when unracking. Your trunk should be leaning forward enough that the bar shouldnt be falling off your back at all.

>>32071863
On bench and squat? No, maybe 2.5 or 5 kg every week. On deadlift, I'm adding 2.5 every workout - I've just made a few deloads to work on my form and speed.

>>32070182
>I am also on Starting Strength.
Stopped reading there. You're not entitled to an opinion yet.

I do high bar. I can do a lot more low bar but I feel like it works the muscles the same as a deadlift and I would rather spend my squatting time working on my leg and especially quad strength. I don't buy the more weight is everything argument, things like range of motion and which muscles are taking the load do matter. By low bar logic you might as well forget squats and do 2000 lb hip lifts.

>>32071874
I have bitch wrists (6.2'') and I OHP with my wrists bend. It might be one of the reasons. Another one might be dropping myself from the top of a chin-up position/one arm hang (as a spinal decompressing stretching exercise I read about on /fit/), or deadlifts.

Last time I tried 112.5kg I was in agonizing pain for an hour, couldn't even lift my hand to drink from my bottle.

I'll definitely do more stretching.

>>32071902
Do you think it's because I squat in a T-shirt, a hoodie, and my gym has a really wide-diameter bar? I don't want to be that guy in a tank top with chalk on his back. I'll pay attention to this next time.

>>32071279
tidy your room m8

Why do people care so much how others squat?

Is it a symptom of autism?

I find lowbar squats more comfortable

High bar fucks my shoulders up so, low bar.

>>32071874

Would that issue also be present in the OHP? When I lower the bar my right elbow hurts.

>>32070760
That puking powerlifter tho'. Fucken hillarious, saved it for decisively winning internet arguments.

>>32072080
Yes, and bench. If anything that sounds very likely. Basically the cap of the elbow hits the ulnar nerve, usually there will have been one instance where it happened badly, like you brought an OHP down way too fast. From then one, that ulnar nerve becomes inflamed and because you are always moving it, it never heals. There is nothing really wrong, like nothing is broken but you basically have 2 choices, don't lift for 2-4 weeks and let it heal, continue to lift and have it hurt for up to 12 weeks. I did the 12 week thing, because I wasn't gonna stop for 2 weeks. Just take ibuprofen, by an elbow sleeve and stretch your wrists and eventually it will heal.

>>32071299
0:40-0:45.

Cringed hard.

>>32072137

Very likely then. Was doing 50lbs on the OHP progressing way too fast. Probably what fucked it up right good. I've had to lighten the OHP load anyways because of it.

>>32072234
Yep, I'd say also buy some wrist wraps and use them in any pushing movement and get an elbow sleeve. You wont need them forever but for the time being. Maybe buy some naproxen or other nsaids, honestly I take that or ibuprofen pretty much daily.

>>32070739
Oh I like your new book there. Did the big lady at your school give it to you as a gift or did you parents buy it for you on your birthday, when no one showed up.

How cute.

>>32071037
Accept we as humans are different. Not everyone is a fag but a lot live on /fit/. The same is said about muscle building, you have the strength builders then the people who judge bodybuilding because it lacks strength. I call those people fucking dumbshits tho. Not everyone is a dumb /fit/izen

>>32072379
It's true. I see some fucking tards here on /fit/ all the time. Most are in this post right now.

>>32070095
I prefer low bar solely because of how stable the bar feels. I can high bar no problem, but the barbell in the low bar position feels comfy and sturdy as fuck.

>>32070892
>They can see how dumb low bar form looks and how natural high bar is. /fit/ has been indoctrinated by fat powerlifters on steroids.
>Lowbar looks fucking unnatural and awful. It's for fat powerlifters who have many rolls of fat on their back so they don't need to place it on their shoulders.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGOeXoegsx8#t=33

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WK7m6I5m6gY&feature=player_detailpage#t=25

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I miss old /fit/ and the old trips

This thread proves yet again that people here are dyel dudebroscientist faggots who know nothing about lifting and just want to tone for summer

>>32070182
I'm a proponent of low bar but don't think you have any fucking right to talk about anything if you are still doing SS lol.
Come back in a few years kid.

ive got nagging shoulder issues so i high bar exclusively,

they are also sexy as fk

>>32070853
great video. I have short legs, but my femurs are very long compared to shins and lowbar with highbar mechanics is the only way I can squat without losing balance or snapping my back , sort of like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37RHeg4o4A4

>>32070095
>Which do you prefer: High bar or low bar squat?
I prefer 'no bar'. I just ride my bike, and I look better than 95% of you.

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>>32072698
lol, the delusion

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>>32072698
>I prefer 'no bar'. I just ride my bike, and I look better than 95% of you.

>>32070095
>I'm already doing front squats, so quads will be trained regardless.
you better make sure you hamstrings are growing as fast as your quads or else youll get a muscle inbalance that will fuck your back up just as bad as shitty squat form. low bar engages the hamstrings, where hi and front squats dont at all

>>32071793
Try spreading out your grip even wider. I started getting elbow pain, my grip wasn't wide at all, ring finger on ring. I spread my hands to almost the end of the knurling and bam elbow pain gone.

Also, the point is to be able to widen your grip and still keep that same upper back tightness. I also am not leaning as excessively forward as I used too since I widened my grip.

>>32072603
I'm new here, is there anything wrong with toning for summer?

What weight is a good benchmark to start considering Oly shoes as opposed to converse?

>>32070760
10/10

I use them both in my training. I go really heavy with the low bar and focus on just doing the reps but with high bar I go for a lighter weight and very deep, paused reps.

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what do you guys think about knee sleeves for squatting?

>>32070892
Post vid

>>32072852
I only see guys who high bar squat 3pl8+ wear them, most of the time they don't even hit parallel. So yeah, high bar fucked up their knees meanwhile no one I've seen who low bar squats wears them.

>>32072852
I use one for my dodgy right knee. I keep injuring it at work, pushing heavy shit around.

>>32072911
My knees hurt before i even started lifting heavy an di recently got them after hitting 2.5pl8s. After wearing them my knee pains seem to go away completly

>>32072741
Right, that's why all those Olifters walk around with gimp backs all the time right?

50% of this thread is troll
the other 50% is just plain retards

amazing

>>32072815
Low bar squatting does not necessarily benefit from oly shoes.

>>32072852
i'm not even that strong (2pl8) but i always wear sleeves because they prevent my knee pain

get rehbands, they're absolutely worth it

I like lowbar with flat shoes. I feel much more stable during a really heavy squat. Just be sure to go low enough - almost every picture of a lowbar squat on Google Image search has people going halfway down.

>>32072815
315#

lowbar > front squats > highbar

highbar is a useless middle ground between front and lowbar squats. even when you're oly lifting squatting highbar is questionable.

>>32073163
Rippletits pls go.

>>32072815
Assuming you mean shoes with a raised heel, look at your mobility and how well you hit depth. If you can hit depth just fine in Chucks, you can keep on using those. If you need togo deeper, try elevating your heels by chucking a plate under each shoe heel and see how that works out for you. If that works out for you, you should defo consider a pair of oly shoes.

>>32073043
yea dude, because oly lifters never engage their fucking hamstrings doing cleans or snatches, and pull accessories. you fucking retard.

>>32071227

Layne Norton or "fan" of Layne Norton. Fuck off, please. I would rather squat less weight with highbar than do a 650lb good morning like Layne Norton does. Lowbar is the easy way out. High bar is better for strength.

4th week of SL and the past 3 workouts Ive noticed one of my knees the right one hurts after I finish the workout. It is probably because of my squat form. When I go as low as I can my knee cracks. Maybe I need more mobility exercises or idk better warmup. The pain isnt big but it is there when I walk. I feel like I'm not squatting up as I should because my legs sometimes buckle in. Has anyone every had this? Give me a youtube video or something to help me do it better? I do high bar squats btw and I think form videos would help me since I havent mastered the squat form as it seems.

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I've always found that I don't have butt wink or discomfort when pulling low bar squats. So I do low bar contrary to highbar. Apparently that makes me an egolifter. I'll stick with my atg lmao2plate low bar squats.

Low bar since high hurts my neck

>tfw made an error while racking the weight for Low Bar and hurt my left shoulder
>tfw everytime i squat down it hurts on my left shoulder
It's terrible brehs

>>32074243
Try not resting the bar on your neck then, retard

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> barbell squatting

>>32074345
ebin m8

>>32073810
>High bar is better for [quads] strength [while leaving your entire posterior chain lagging]

Fix'd

>>32074277
What error?

>>32074536
I dunno. Maybe I unracked it slightly too high on the left and it slipped down and pressed my shoulder funny. Immediately hurt when I did it and now it's hurting every time I lowbar squat, breh.

>>32074564
Are you retracting your scapulas properly?

>>32074584
Maybe not, tips? Also, I sometimes find that the bar wants slip down my back. Caused me to fail my last set today at 4/5 reps. I do lean forward as well.

>>32074502

That's why you do deadlifts. You can't even squat atg lowbar which makes it basically what sumo does to deadlift. Which is worse muscular development and strength.

>>32074612
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2tyOLvArw0
try gripping narrower and elbows further up

>>32074719
Cheers, m8.
Will watch after shower

>>32070095
hmmpf i havent ever noticed myself locating the bar in the weird or in any way that doesnt seem to be wrong before, yet ive trained for over 16 years now..

though last week i just went right under the bar without giving it a thought, usually go thorugh the set in my mind while im loading the bar

suddenly catch an odd feeling and noticed this "high bar" position for the first time ever, feels like my back is taking way more strain than usuall, try it out for 1-2 set and never going to try it again

havent had any odd feeling around my back in years, yet this week ive feelt something slightly off in my back

fuck high bar man

>>32071643
foam roll the inside of your leg behind the knee makes any knee pain ive got go away in like 20 seconds. Also fix your form.. mine stopped hurting once I hit 2pl8 cause my form stopped being shit

>>32074692
>You can't even squat atg lowbar which makes it basically what sumo does to deadlift
Confirmed for been lifting less than 3 months.

>>32074692
Oh god that entire post is retarded please kill youreself.

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>>32074345

joe rogan pls go and take your kettlebells with you

>>32074719
>someone complains about shoulder pain
>link them to Rippletits shoulder-snapping grip video
One inch too narrow and you'll fuck your shit up. Regular lowbar setup is better.
PS le hip drive is a lie

Powerlifting wise I'd say lowbar for Olympic or aesthetic wise I'd say high bar

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>>32075176
>>32075150

If you train for strength but don't plan to compete, high bar and deadlift is the way to go. Even Candito agrees with this. Also have some data to back this shit up:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23604798
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12173958

>>32075150

Giving yourself a mechanical advantage(low bar) only lessens the work you are doing for muscular development. This has been proven a thousand times and should be self-explanatory. If you're doing low bar with the argument that you'll get superior back development, that's just stupid unless you are for some reason limited to only doing low bar back squats. Wanting to move the most iron possible by IPF or other fed rules is a completely different matter to this ofc

Why do all beginner strength routines use lowbar? Are there no 5x5 programs that use high bar instead?

>>32076126

Madcow advocates high bar for all his routines IIRC. Nothing is stopping you from switching either.

>>32075876
those studies are only about the range of motion and lowbar allows bigger ROM without rounding the lower back than highbar eg.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QsYAobvp0D0

>>32076238
>manlet

Doesn't count. Should have been a no lift.

>>32076238
>Posting an exception as an example

Pretty much this post in summary.

Low bar master race.
My back and also my knees feels so much better. Best thing I've done when it comes to training. But I "sacrificed" a few months of squats that was much much lower in quality and weight than my full potential. but then it caught on and I'm now stronger than ever.

Only idiots insist of doing high bar.

>>32076037
>using more muscles at once and thus being able to put more weight on the bar means you are not training as hard as if you just used one specific muscle to do the entire lift with less weight
Retard.

>>32075876
Yeah, that's definitely NOT proper low bar squat form. Stupid image, disregarded.

>>32076422
>Only idiots insist of doing high bar

If it doesn't suit them then that is correct. But in reality biomechanics, leverages, mobility etc. varies from person to person which pretty much points you as the idiot.

>>32074692
What sumo does to deadlift is switching the leverage from the back to the quads, so you move more part of the weight with them than with your posterior chain. Please educate yourself before puking up your bullshit here, idiot.

>>32075807
>or aesthetic wise
For aesthetics you don't do squats in the first place.

>>32076432
>using more muscles at once and thus being able to put more weight on the bar means you are not training as hard as if you just used one specific muscle to do the entire lift with less weight

But this is so off point, my dear anon.

>>32076473
Nope, that's exactly what your point is about.

>hurr why doing low bar if i just want my quads bigger i dont care about ass hams adds or lower back, actually i really think deadlifts will work those just fine

Go back to school.

>>32076472
All aesthetic YouTubers squat.
>Even Lord Zyzz squatted 2 plate with a pussy pad

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>>32076552
>I get my fitness advice from youtube celebrities and memes
This conversation is over.

>>32076400
it's not an exception. most people with decent flexibility can squat with a bigger ROM lowbar if they don't try to sit back. an exaggerated knee forward travel in highbar causes the hamstrings and the calves to bounce, sometimes even above the parallel, and limits the ROM

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>>32076580
My point is that aesthetic people squat, so people who train for aesthetics should squat too.

>>32076692
>proceeds to post a roider to prove his point

>>32076526

But your argument only proved his point of why one should do high bar + deadlifts only and ditch low bar, you doofus.

But I'll one up him and say you should only do high bar and SLDLs. DL still takes too much legs and affects your squat seshs
>hitting squats hard 3xweek without it affecting your SLDL sessions and vice versa

Dat gainz train, I can hear it coming
>ZHUUU ZHHUUUUU

>>32076692
aesthetic people also do g4p maybe you should consider doing it as well so you can be just like them

also this >>32076755
when juicing your legs will grow regardless of leg pressing or squatting on the smith machine or goblet squatting or w/e

>>32076780
Confirmed for brosplitter toning for summer. Fuck off.

>>32071255
>I don't understand physics or anatomy

>>32076780

Didn't Candito do something like this(only high bar and SLDL) and then made squat and deadlift PRs?

>>32076920
>brosplitter
it's called a PPL routine now. get on with the times, gramps

>>32076956
What exactly makes you think you should train like a pro powerlifter?

>>32076965
Please your stats.

>>32070484
>brazillian pole dancers
>no quads

pick one, faggot.

>>32077005
not the guy you were replying to earlier. I was just making fun of PPL

Not gonna read through this whole fuckin' thread, but why should I be using a thumbless grip on low bar? I hurt my shoulder a few weeks ago on lowbar, could this have been prevented by going thumbless?

>>32077155
Depends. Are you holding the bar up with your hands? If so, please stop.

The bar must rest on your rear delts, the hands are only there to prevent the bar rolling down. Using thumbless grip should enforce you to use proper form.

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>>32076755
Lol, are you implying that natties who squat are unaesthetic?
>>32076798
Just lol.

>>32077256
LOL, nope I'm just saying a roider does not prove anything about the effectiveness of an exercise, LOL

Nice no-legs example btw.

Please just get the fuck off and start lifting already, you fatty.

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im just gonna leave this here

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I've been trying to switch from high bar to low bar.
I can do 110kg high bar but with low bar I can only do like, 80kg before my arms give up.

I must be doing something wrong, so I tried not having my arms in ''bench press range'' and rather very close so I could make my back as tight as possible and not it's much comfier. This the right way to do it?

>>32077301
So what are you trying to say here, that breaking parallel is the most efficient way of squatting? That ATG is fucking stupid and unnecessary? I agree.

>>32077329
>my arms give up
your arms only hold the bar on the "shelf" you create between your traps and your posterior deltoid. try finding that spot with a broomstick first
you're not holding the bar with your hands at all, try using a thumbless grip to remind yourself of that fact
also lean forward more, lower bar position means the back angle needs to increase to keep the bar over the mid foot

>>32077329
Don't hold the bar with your hands.

>>32077329
tight as you can while still keeping elbows up is pretty much it

>>32077342
what i'm saying is that u can decide for urselves. if you dont want to involve ur glutes during squats, stop at 90 degrees "low bar".- if u want ur glutes to do some work u need to break parallell

>>32077405
Are you trying to say that using low bar means you don't break parallel?

Fucking hell this place is full of fucking noobs.

>>32077405
that's knee angle
do you squat with perfectly vertical shins?

>>32077374
>>32077377
>>32077399
Noted till next session, thanks brahs.

People wayyy overstate the difference in squatting form for most lifters IMO. All squats, when performed correctly, will target a large number of muscle groups in the lower body.

Imbalances are a moot point unless squats are the only lower body lift you're doing. Need more quad work? Add in leg press/front squat. Need more posterior chain work? Romanians/SLDLs.


The only time it really matters which you train is if it fits into your long term goals. People doing the Olympic lifts might be better off emphasizing high bar/front. Powerlifters might want to focus low bar.

Tl;dr do the squat that's most comfortable for you and stop worrying about it.

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>>32070182
Absolutely wrong. If lowbar was more technical and required more muscles it would be the standard in the Olympics.

High bar requires a stronger upper and lower back, and past parallel works the legs equally to low bar. It also has a longer ROM. Low bar requires less back strength, and has a shorter ROM that's why you can move more weight.

>>32077548
>If lowbar was more technical and required more muscles it would be the standard in the Olympics.
You and the person you are arguing with are retarded. There's not much difference. Do what feels better. HB is the stand in the Olympics because it closely follows the movement of catching a clean or snatch. That's it. Read Greg Nuckol's articles about the different squats on Strengtheory if you'd actually like to be knowledgeable instead of sounding like an ignorant jackass.

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>>32077548
>If lowbar was more technical and required more muscles it would be the standard in the Olympics.

>>32077511
>People wayyy overstate the difference in squatting form for most lifters IMO.
this. not to mention lowbar squat performed by most raw or single ply powerlifters isn't much different from highbar:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37RHeg4o4A4
and it's possible to squat highbar like that:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t156u5VuBTw

>>32077548
>If lowbar was more technical and required more muscles it would be the standard in the Olympics.
There is no standard squat at the olympics. There are no squats at the olympics.

>High bar requires a stronger upper and lower back
Yeah, no. Shear force is greater in low bar, weight is greater in low bar. You only need more back strength at oly training due to the clean part of the oly lifts.

>and past parallel works the legs equally to low bar
Nope. It needs more hip extension which means more glute and hams involvement, also a wider stance means more adds work. Yeah, the quads don't work as hard, but whatever, you are trading 10/10/10/70 for 25/20/20/35.

>>32077548
>If lowbar was more technical and required more muscles it would be the standard in the Olympics
There is no fucking sport in the Olympics in wich you compete in squats. If you are talking about weightlifting, high bar squats is used in training because it's reinforces certain qualities in the competition movements. The text in your image is written from the perspective of someone who trains(or coaches) for better results in weightlifting, of course he's going to suggest the most sport-specific movement for the athletes.

There is not that much difference between hig bar and low bar, I don't know why people are arguing this much about 2 inches at most

>>32071031
>2pl8 pause squat
?160 lbs DYEL
>i get looks all the time

SUUUUUUUURRRRRRE

>>32077746
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t156u5VuBTw
>BACK BACK BACK BACK BACK BACK BACK BACK BACK BACK BACK BACK BACK BACK BACK BACK BACK BACK BACK BACK BACK BACK BACK BACK BACK BACK BACK

>>32077798
>Comparing raw squats with an assistance excercise done by geared lifters

>>32071279
pls be in london

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>>32075773
Is hip drive a lie?

>>32077798

literally disgusting

>>32070095
i do low bar for powerlifting but ive found that lowbar works my upper legs like upper inner and outer thighs more while highbar hits my quads and ass a Lot more I do both to keep it even but i prefer high bar

>>32070182
>Starting Strength
>you can lift more so it causes more stress

Listen here you little dyel fuck..

>>32082538
Actually it does. You lift more weight because you involve more musculature into the lift. But the stress over your low back is increased as it is forced to support more weight and be generally more horizontal throughout the lift.

>>32082576
You sound like one of those normie faggots who gets hyped over "full-body workouts."

>>32082651
No. I look like someone who has read SS and watched the SS vid explaining the whys and hows of low bar squatting.

>>32082683
You think I give a fuck about what Rippletits says?

>>32083023

How many weeks did you take to see beginner gainz?

>>32077495
What, actual advice given?
This is not the /fit/ I know.

>>32071299

Your faggotry is astounding. I can't believe you posted this to impress people on a Burmese child molesting forum. Kill yourself.

I did a really shitty low at for the longest time. For the first six months of my lifting I had shit form, then I learned firm in my lifts from Candytoes

So I do hybrid squats now. High bar bar position. Low bar depth/stance etc

High bar because it just feels more comfortable. Low bar hurts my shoulders.

I don't really buy the 'some people will never hit depth high bar' thing, having been in that camp a while ago and then spending months improving flexibility makes me sure now that anyone can hit it, it's just about how much forward lean you can accept and how much ankle flexion you can get

>>32072785
yeah, you gotta start last year lol

>>32072852

I avoid them if at all possible, keeps me sharp in maintaining a good form to prevent knee pain in the first place.

>>32082538

Don't fedora, it's not like your body can magically call upon other spines and hips to hold that weight. The stress on other muscles and skeletal structures WILL increase.

>>32070095

Is that picture a joke? That doesn't look nearly low enough to be a low bar position. Low bar is closer to where the arm meets the torso, as I understand it.

>>32070095
Could u high bar please?
U could low bar too?

>>32084284

welcome to shoulder impingement city

that's a perfectly acceptable low bar placement

>>32084284
>doesn't recognize textbook lowbar
these are the people that give advice on /fit/

>>32070484
>oly shoes
Pic or it didn't happen.

>no homo

If lowbar was superior your lowbar wouldn't go up with highbar and highbar would go up with lowbar. But it's the complete opposite.

In reality you will notice all around development with highbar and can squat massive weights with the mechanical advantage lowbar gives you but will never touch those weights highbar.

Powerlifting has ruined squatting. A 2xBW, hell even 3xBW squat means nothing these days.

Some 300 kg IPF squatters can't fucking squat 60% of that highbar.

>>32084488
>get lowbar to x
>carryover to highbar 0.6x

>get highbar to 0.6x
>lowbar carryover to 0.5x
>still can't squat x

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I place the bar somewhere in between those two examples, so that it's directly behind my traps on top of my rear delts.

I was told that's 'high bar' but I don't know

I also wear oly shoes. seems to work for me, I can comfortably get below parallel and I'm working up to 3 plates.

>>32084511

Even a lot of top level squatters agree that highbar seems to be superior and then do it as an accessory. Some even do only highbar and just practice lowbar for form for comps. Hell, Candito said that if you don't plan to compete you should probably just do highbar.

>>32084542

yeah still high bar
low bar is fairly distinct as being on the rear delts
nice choice of shoos

Omar is a prime example of why lowbar sucks. His lower half looks DYEL as fuck yet he lowbars over 500 pounds. Then when we see him try highbar or front squats and he struggles with under 3 plates you realize how this is possible. Completely useless.

highbar4lyfe

>>32084605

it's almost as if one can move more weight doing low bar
if only there were competitions where people tried to squat the most weight

>>32084619

My point was that Omar, who trains for aesthetics, has somewhat been wasting time doing lowbar. Unless erector spinae and glute hypertrophy was his aestheticz goal.

>>32070095
high bar atg master race.
no fucking point in squattin low bar unless you compete in powerlifting

>>32084658

I was under the impression he used to consider himself a powerlifter

it's not fashionable to just be about looks anymore, if you want that youtube moneys and followers you need to at least pretend to care about strength

kinda dumb really, but as ever Dom parodied it pretty well in his video a few months ago
dat nigga astute

>>32072852
>>32072911
>>32072934
>>32072989
>>32084226

You guys are fucking retarded. All knee sleeves "do" is keep your knees warm. People wear them for the same reason NBA players wear those sleeves on their arms. To look cool.

They are just a fashion accessory

>>32084553
And a lot of top level squatters never highbar. Fantastic, this is going places.

>>32084695
>Dom

who?

>>32084719
broscience

>>32072852
i use them when i have long rest between sets ( more than 5 minutes) to keep my knees warm

As someone already pointed out, Omar is a good example of why low bar is stupid for leg development. You will find that most powerlifters do not have impressive legs unless they are on serious amounts of gear.

Rippetoe bangs on about low bar being better because you are stronger doing it. No fucking shit, of course you're stronger when your back/hips/glutes are all doing most of the work rather than predominantly your quads. You're also doing a lesser range of motion as low bar.

If you want to train your legs, you need to do some variation of upright squat whether it's front squats or high bar back squats. Just be ready to have your ego crushed when you struggle to rep out 100kg to full depth.

>>32070095
Thx for the pic OP, I always thought that I have been doing high bar.. realizing that I've been doing low bar all the time.

>>32084715

The ones that can highbar do it. The ones with freakish proportions and shit mobility ie. lowbar machines never do highbar for obvious reasons. The rest are idiots and would be champs with my coaching.

this a fact

Actually let me amend that, you need to do some variation of upright squat OR leg press. Even leg press is way more effective than low bar squatting.

These stupid powerlifting fads have filtered into mainstream lifting far too much. The low bar squat is just as silly as a super-wide grip massive-arch bench press with a 6 inch rom.

>>32084746
>this autism

>>32084715
All the best squatters do high bar. Wtf are you smoking? Someone like Lillebridge wouldn't come CLOSE to the strength of some random chinese 105 guy in the high bar. Powerlifting is its own little world, it's like judging the best deadlifter by who can rack pull the most...

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>>32084759
>The low bar squat is just as silly as a super-wide grip massive-arch bench press with a 6 inch rom

I love how everyone on /fit/ exaggerates everything to the point of rendering their original, possibly good, point useless.

>>32084790
>All the best squatters do high bar
Who outsquats Lilliebridge? No one? Oh, that's right.

>>32076432
>not realizing that it's an obvious exaggeration to highlight the difference

Just how stupid can you be? Are you perhaps Amurican?

High bar

Cos olympic weightlifter

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>>32084923
>ahem
inb4 squat suit
Yep, but atleast he's natty

>>32085049
>posts a guy in a squat suit

>>32084790
You do know Lilliebridge used to squat high bar right? I'm sure he could take the strongest chinks high bar, add 100 kg and squat it eezpeez