Socialist thread / starving artist

File: 3Z4P_K.jpg (52KB, 468x716px) Image search: [Google]

52KB, 468x716px

>>11815944

>>11815944
Great photograph. Who is it?

>>11815944
can somebody photoshop a laptop where the typewriter is?

>>11815949
Who's this?

>>11817491
sitruc nai

>>11819130
>Curtis Ian
Thanks anon.

File: RUSSIA-1-jumbo.jpg (192KB, 1024x683px) Image search: [Google]

192KB, 1024x683px

>>11815944

>>11819504

the only people who could support the soviet union are old romantics who remember 'the good ol' days' dumb idealist kids who don't understand how the world works.

>>11815944

>coca-cola on the table
>socialist
>starving

File: 1472798415164.gif (2MB, 330x275px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 330x275px

>>11819509
or those who wish to try and better the world instead of continuing with what barely works.Mankind always tries to innovate.

File: tumblr_ngnau5cCPD1r0mxzeo1_500.jpg (18KB, 491x297px) Image search: [Google]

18KB, 491x297px

>>11819504

>>11819512

your idea of innovation is redistributing wealth to people who potentially don't deserve it. it boggles my mind what kind of mental gymnastics you have to do to convince yourself that you actually care about the poor.

File: 1474953472778.jpg (108KB, 720x614px) Image search: [Google]

108KB, 720x614px

>>11819518
one must ask why they deserve it? without the worker they are nothing and so the worker deserves his fair share of the profits. simple no?

>>11819518
to care about the poor is to care about your community and more over your homeland, we should all do your best to help our kinfolk

>>11819524

I would ask of you what you think is "fair", but a better question to ask a communist would be who you think gets to decide what "fair" is.

>>11819530
sounds very romantic, but what kinship do you share with a person whose human potential capped at being a barista at starbucks for 50 years? in a lasseiz faire world, what can this person do that would be worth more than what he makes now?

So many communist shills in this thread. You lost the war like twenty years ago, you leftist ((((artists)))).

>>11819537
question 1: In my own opinion his share of the profits depending on the total amount of profit, if profits allow everyone should be able to afford a roof, bread, and basic utilities no matter the work as long as they give something to society as a whole. And it is not a matter of who singular but who pleural. We as a community or communities find what is fair it should not be left to one man.

Question 2: To me the kinship i share with a person is that he is my countryman we both exist together at this point in time we both share this land, he makes my coffee without him I would not have coffee, an without the farmer the barista wouldnt have coffee to sell. It is of no importance what job one does as long as he does it asin someone must be the street cleaner and without him the whole of society falls some.

>>11819554
what relevance is it that a war was lost?
America lost many wars but is still allowed to exist so why not us?

>>11819524
This shit belongs in /pol/
But you're dumb

>>11819564
America may have lost sometimes but never has lost "big time". The fall of the Soviet Union proved that communism is a failed ideology that doesn't work.

as someone who was born in the the soviet union... the main thing that associates to me with it is the stealing... the omnipresent stealing from place of work, everyone stole, stealing was probably more than 1/3 of economy

another thing was acquaintances, if you wanted anything you had to know the right people, that includes food, cars, furniture and so on

I always wonder why do commies don't come to North Korea/Vietnam/Cuba/Venezuela, the places where communism "works"?

>>11819598
the fall of the soviets proved that the soviet system doesn't work no socialism or communism for the same reason the fall of the British Empire did not disprove Capitalism

>>11819605
that's cool

>>11819512
>This nigger actually thinks communism works
Lol. The only way it would work would to enforce it in every country, mate. Why do you think that every communist state had a fascist regime? We are indiviualists and communism goes completely against how we behave. Also >>11819518. Are you really naïve enough to think that everyone will work as hard when there is no reward for it? Why should I study for years to become a doctor and then have a life full of stress, when Billy Bob makes as much as me cleaning aisles in the supermarket?

>>11819518
>redistributing wealth to people who potentially don't deserve it.
that has nothing to do with communism

>>11819605
that happens in every underdeveloped country, be it a free market capitalism or a state capitalism

>>11819661
read more, there has never been a communist country

>>11819970
muh real gommunism has never been tried :^)

File: image.jpg (54KB, 640x428px) Image search: [Google]

54KB, 640x428px

>>11819598
>Soviet Union
>communist
>being this indoctrinated into the ideological framework

>>11819661
you mean Oaxaca, Kurdistan, Naxalite controlled India, and Israeli Kibbutz?

File: 1456178890837.jpg (43KB, 342x377px) Image search: [Google]

43KB, 342x377px

>>11819524
>a classless society is possible

The Soviets and Chinese killed over 100 million people and still couldn't rid themselves of social hierarchy. The very existence of a state guarantees it.

If you want the perfect world, liberate its people.

>>11819969
Difference is that freer markets get you up and out of that state of drudgery in due time, whereas big government apparatuses have never and will never elevate their poor. This is both the theoretical and decidedly empirical reality of liberty.

>>11819661
because they know communism doesn't work. they just want to make everything harder for everyone else because they're lazy pieces of shit who do nothing but sit in their gym shorts they've worn for 3 weeks in their basements browsing tumblr

>>11820111
>hurr durr sovit unon culaps bikuz it wuz rong komunizm we bild rait komunizm
Oй, дa иди нaхyй yжe, дoлбoeбик.

Why are their so many edgy alt right cucks on this board

>>11821452
Its the new contrarian ideology, and we all know 4chan is always in the contrarian side.

>>11815944
>Socialist thread / starving artist
>implying the two are related

File: RobertCrumb1993HungerArtist.jpg (38KB, 283x288px) Image search: [Google]

38KB, 283x288px

>>11815944
Well, I'm a wannabe starving artist. This thread is mine

>>11821500
Try not uploading a pic made for fucking ants the size of your micro penis you absolute quadruple FUUUUCK

>>11819952
perhaps if one only seeks money they are not the best person to be a doctor the best doctor is someone who would do the work and not get payed at all, but this is only my opinion

>>11819970
personally is because I love my country and her people, i believe in helping your nation not running away to some far off land

>>11821600
>>11819952
wrong person, this is for you

File: 838238-guy-debord.jpg (147KB, 975x737px) Image search: [Google]

147KB, 975x737px

Debord himself was ugly as shit but Situationism is by far the most effay leftist ideology

>>11821619
this desu

>>11821619
Situationsism is pseudo intellectual clap trap. It's totally stupid new left sixties bullshit.

>>11819512
Spotted the liberal arts major

>>11821590
People generally want to work to earn a living buddy. Everyone can't be up in the clouds thinking about "what's good", people just wants to get by.

>>11819605
Oh yeah but the soviet union didn't have REEAAL communism /s

>>11821802
well you can earn a living in many different ways why do something like become a doctor unless you would like to help people? There easier and better things

>>11819970
NOT AN ARGUMENT

>>11821810
>Social status
>Extremely good pay
>Easy finding work
There you go, 3 reasons why working as a doctor is very appealing to many people. Of course some, if not a lot of doctors do it because they believe in "the cause", but that's besides the point.

>>11819518
this shows a really clear lack of understanding of how socialist economics work. In fact even the people arguing for communism or leftist economics here don't seem to really get it. American culture and education has really distorted what communism/socialism really is.

You're approaching socialism/ communism and applying to the context that we live in today, where people must employ themselves in order to get access to food and stuff. That's not really the point and people here arguing that we should do that are stupid. Socialism only works in a certain reality and ill explain what that is.

Your argument against wealth redistribution (why give money to people who are lazy), regardless if it even applies to today, is useless. Because socialism can only happen in a society where production is so ridiculously high that we are able to give everyone access to basic goods, and there is no need for everyone to work to live. You can't make the argument that people who don't work are lazy and shouldn't get handouts because most people will not being employable due to machinery making production so efficient.

The quote used to describe socialism by Marx and Engels was "From each according to their ability, to each according to their CONTRIBUTION". Communism is "to each according to their needs" that a different story. They basically tried to denote a society in which all basic goods are accessible and people can work for more money if they desire for more money if they can find a job, otherwise we just redistribute money made by companies employing machines and shit with sky high productivity.

Socialism is therefore inevitable but most likely would not occur in our lifetimes as we will need insane increase in productive capabilities to the point where everyone is for the most part unemployed and only the capitalists are rich.

>>11820054
>>11821815
not the guy you two were replying to but this shows such an insane amount of ignorance of political theory, you know that communism isn't even supposed to have a state right? How can you call places like NK or the USSR communist if they literally have totalitarian regimes?

This guy isnt giving an argument for communism hes literally pointing out the obvious because you guys are too stupid to pick up a book and actually read the original source in its context rather than just subscribe to american individualist culture because "hurr dur i don't want to give my money to lazy people i worked hard for it fuck commies capitalism is amazing"

CAN you write without smoking and consuming yourself, do you even Lift? \lit\

>>11819598
dude why are you even discussing socialist politics? You don't understand that Soviet Leninism and Stalinism are like, 100% not at all what socialism and communism are supposed to be? Have you even read something written by Marx? Like come on this isn't even trying you're just being lazy dude

File: rasstrely_nkvd_07.jpg (81KB, 600x388px) Image search: [Google]

81KB, 600x388px

>>11821868
>American culture and education has really distorted what communism/socialism really is.
Is that so? What you really missed is the corpses. Every attempt to build "socialism" resulted in hundreds thousands of corpses. And like the nazi regime, communism is a fucking inhuman one, there is no difference. Taking it's power from fear and terror is principal for survival of such system. And as a russian I would gladly shatter your fucking face into pieces in case you would tell me the story how cool communism is.

>>11817491
r u fr m8

I'm a "starving artist," and I'm anti-collectivism/pro-individualism (as any true artist should be, really, since self-expression is inherently individualist) and I support capitalism. I want the government and other people to stay out of my life.

File: anargranny.jpg (66KB, 619x768px) Image search: [Google]

66KB, 619x768px

>>11821989
The collectivist/individualist dichotomy is bullshit.

There were plenty of "individualist" bohemian types who were commies, especially in France.

See https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Individualist_anarchism_in_France
and the Situationist International around Guy Debord already posted ITT.

HOWEVER this thread has way too much politics and way too few inspo.

File: rojava.png (216KB, 441x283px) Image search: [Google]

216KB, 441x283px

ayeee comrades

>>11820111
you're a funny dude

>>11821961
did you even read my post or did you just read the first sentence and then get triggered? you understand when i talk about communism and socialism im not talking about stalinism and all of the retarded fucked up regimes of the 20th century? I'm talking about the socialism that Marx actually discussed in his writings which was grossly perverted by crazy dictatorial people. Like, communism isn't even supposed to have a state, nor is it supposed to be forced into a country, it's supposed to come about naturally (historical materialism). Anybody that actually supports stalinism is a fucking retard, just as retarded as anyone supporting a nazi or facist regime.

>>11821961
you're literally proving my point about how ignorant people are about what socialism and communism actually are supposed to be as proposed by Marx himself.

File: Hungarian Girl, 1956 Revolution.jpg (29KB, 358x480px) Image search: [Google]

29KB, 358x480px

>>11821580
I agree with this anon. If there's gonna be political faggotry on /fa/, the least you can do is upload some cool images that aren't fucking microscopic.

>>11821851
Wow what kind of shit doctors are you going to?

>>11821851
No that is not besides the point

>>11822189
>>11822196
It's just not works. All you fucking dreamy students theorize how cool could be the "real" communism, but every theory which proposes removal of a certain group (kulaks, kapitalists, jews etc.) turns to a terror. I don't fucking care about marx at all since every attempt to build marxist dream failed resulting piles of corpses every damn time. Read the fucking news man what's going on in Columbia where the marxist "rebels" fought for nearly 60 years which brought 220 000 dead. Bombings, plunders, murders, kidnapping. Yeah go tell me how they are not "right" communists.

It's the same level of dumbness as with muslims trying to prove that allahuakbar bombers are not "real" muslims. Yeah man I've got you.

>>11823328
damn its actually crazy how stupid you are like i give you step by step explanations and you still just don't give a shit lol

research historical materialism and you'll hopefully understand that not all socialism and communism and shit are revolutionary and call for getting rid of a group of people. I'm not even a socialist, you're just a fucking retard who has no clue what he's talking about. I actually do, because I'm currently studying for a masters degree in political science and philosophy, it's literally my full-time duty to understand political and socioeconomic theory.

i cant even argue with you anymore you're actually borderline autistic

>>11819518
> redistributing wealth to people who potentially don't deserve it
Holy shit. I can see you are not a very educated person on the matters of marxism or communist economics.

>>11824284
Shit dude, you're really gotta be dumb if you SERIOUSLY still argue that what Marx wrote made sense at all. Political and socioeconomic theory? Yeah, a theory it was, and totally failed in practice. Comes from being a deadbeat who can't handle money and literally leeched off of others all their damn life, as Marx did.

File: 0263 - 7Tk9AB0.png (17KB, 365x363px) Image search: [Google]

17KB, 365x363px

>>11815944
Good luck trying to fashionably stand out if you're a commie. You wind up with very little.

>>11825477
still missing the point I see. You clearly haven't studied his work first hand. Marx wrote about a many number of things from dialectics, to epistemology, to economics..The one thing he did NOT write about however was a communist or socialist society in depth.

If you would have ever studied Marx you would understand that this is the biggest controversy regarding his writings. He only ever diagnosed the issues with capitalism and gave only a few thoughts on what he would perhaps prefer, for example democratic ownership of the means of production was something he supported.

He never went in depth at all about how to actually institute socialism or communism though, nor how this type of society would even be organized. He left it all open ended as this wasn't his goal whilst writing, he simply wanted to give us his own analyzation and that's it.This is where people like Stalin, Lenin, Mao came in and basically filled in the blanks with tyrannical ideas to control everything.

It's as well accepted pretty widely that Marx wasn't even in support of violent revolutionary means of instituting his thoughts. Most of what he wrote indicated that after his analysis of capitalism (Find more in his Capital volumes) he had concluded that socialism would just come naturally and that it shouldn't be forced as countries needed a certain level of production efficiency in order for capitalism to collapse.

Sources: Capital Volumes 1&2 by Marx; Gundrisse by Marx; Marx-Engels Reader edited by Robert C. Tucker (compilation of many excerpts of Marx/Engels works), also I am a masters student in political theory.

Again I don't even consider myself a socialist this is all just pretty regular shit that you would know if you had ever studied Marxism.

>>11825541
basically to say that marx's ideas are useless because some fucking crazy people took his thoughts and changed them into something completely unreasonable is ludicrous. What marx wrote about, vs the Stalinism of the 20th century, they're completely unrelated. The stalinist states and the unacceptable things they did are in complete contrast to anything Marx ever wrote about. Marx aimed to give people as much freedom as possible and for people to become the best they could be, not for them to become constrained by and subject to a cult of personality dictatorial state hellbent on keeping power no matter the cost. How does that give anyone any freedom? How does that free people from the coercion of capitalist - worker relations if you just replace the capitalist with an evil state?

>>11825578
Well because quite obviously there's big bad capitalists out there and they're trying to destroy our beautiful communist utopia! That's why we established this secret police here to help root out the counterrevolutionaries! If you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear.

The concept alone is flawed. It's a pipe dream by an idiot with no relation to reality. Critique capitalism all you want, you still haven't scratched it.

>>11825541
Fuck off you commie scum. I was born before soviet union collapsed and I saw all that shit, when my father had to study marxism-leninism at the flight academy just to become a helicopter mechanic. It was essential for successful graduation. When the whole branch of science was dedicaded to marxism-leninism. And there was a huge university with big column building called "the istitute of marxism-leninism", there the big crowd of "academics" spent their time researching questions of marxist theory. And now some faggot from 4chan says "all right the soviet union wasn't communist, their marxist theoretics tried not enough to build it, I know it because I've read some fucking books". Your head is full of shit.

>>11825701
boss as fuck

>>11819518
compared to the current system, where the people who don't do shit deservedly get all the wealth generated by their employees lmao

>>11819605
its cute that you think you made a point when all of this is true of the current system

>>11825684
not an argument so not even worth addressing

>>11825701
wow you really are stupid huh

Communism is a stage in history where no state exists at all. Obviously we can see that the USSR did indeed have a state. Therefore it is not communist. I don't understand why that is so hard to understand. This isn't a justification for socialism or communism this is just a simple fact.

I'm not a socialist or communist I just actually know what I'm talking about. But I guess I'm just a faggot who actually reads books instead of regurgitating false opinions so I can be comfortable with myself.

>>11823328
Please explain how the current system works.

File: 1468344333735.jpg (30KB, 514x536px) Image search: [Google]

30KB, 514x536px

>>11825701

File: 1433383594640.png (319KB, 425x450px) Image search: [Google]

319KB, 425x450px

>>11820111
>sovied Union wasnd reaal gommunizm :DDD

>>11826020
he's right though, you fucking moron

>>11826030
Every fucking utopia ideology is gay, just stop.
He's right but not it does not matter if he is wrong or right, communism is still a bad meme and trying to defend it is futile.
Stop wasting your time.

>>11824284
>not all socialism and communism and shit are revolutionary and call for getting rid of a group of people.

What? Of course they do, how else are you going to achieve socialism? Getting rid of the bourgeoisie isn't the same as killing them though.

>>11825541


>he had concluded that socialism would just come naturally and that it shouldn't be forced

What do you mean by 'forced'? It's true that he saw socialism as a historical necessity but he also opposed the idea that the working class should sit back and wait for the revolution to come.

"I wish Karl Marx would stop talking about capital so much and actually make some"

-Karl Marx's mother.


inAfter
>we live in a real capitalist society derp
>free market is evuul
>real socialism hasn't been tried before
>real communism hasn't been tried before
>even though Keynesian economies have failed across the globe centralized planning works because it feels right xD
>the workers need their fair share after being provided training equipment and employment by an employer.
>government is evil, that's why we need more regulation to fix things.


Did I nail them all?

full communism now

>>11821891
what books on communism would you recommend?

File: 1475603316079.png (1KB, 128x128px) Image search: [Google]

1KB, 128x128px

>>11819518
Including "socialist thread" in the title was a critical mistake because people like this expand something that was a fashion thread into argumentation about political ideologies.

This is why our board sucks

>>11819970
I love this meme so fucking much.

Sure is high school in here.

>>11825815
Your idealism is the only thing that's cute here. Get real you fucking pussy.

>>11825541
hey man, nice job, but you really shouldnt bother, everyone here is autistic, yer not gonna persuade anyone

>>11825541
>>11829099
i liked what you wrote though. i should read up.

File: Jean-baptiste Say.jpg (10KB, 230x247px) Image search: [Google]

10KB, 230x247px

Classical liberalism is the most /fa/ ideology.

>>11829107
This desu senpai