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High Voltage

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Thread replies: 61
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How can I make a very high-voltage, low current, 4Mhz AC solid state tesla coil that won't just short itself out? I'm hoping for 1 MV or more.
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>>905453
1MV is a lot of voltage. Typical commercial and industrial tesla coils peak out at around 50kV. Do you know what you're doing?
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>>905465
1MV is easily enough to kill you. Also, I think 3 phase would be needed.
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>>905465
Yeah, I know what I'm doing. I need the e-field. I'd build a Van De Graaff generator if somehow they could be made to produce AC.
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>>905481
>Yeah, I know what I'm doing

If you need to ask...
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>>905505
>>905465
Fuck off.

>>905468
9volt can easily kill you do. It is the amps not the volts that determine fibrillation or not.

>>905453
Make a couple easy smaller Tesla Coils first. Play around with some MOTs for making them. A 1MV Tesla Coil is going to cost a shit load of money to make, so getting things planned out with the smaller versions is key before you tackle something far bigger. The 1MV and higher Tesla Coils are massive, several feet above your head high. Here's what one looks like,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vd-wa_wm2iY

Here's some basics for the MOTs,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QpUEPZ8bwhU

You'll also need to buy or make some amazingly high voltage capacitors for it. Those are pretty easy. Google up "bucket capacitor" on how to make some really high volt caps.

Remember, always keep one hand behind your back at all times.

>>905481
VDGGs are neat, but not what you want to power a Tesla Coil with. They are essentially two different things. Technically, you could build a rotary device to turn it into AC, but it wouldn't work quite right with the Tesla Coil part. But, it'd be awesome to be using something like a mechanical DC-AC converter using a Tesla Turbine, since those are just about the only thing you can DIY that would reach seriously high frequencies.
>>
So if it's low current, high voltage that means it could produce a high current if it encountered a sufficiently low resistance? Or is it only capable of delivering a tiny current in the first place?

Mind you, I don't even know what a Tesla coil really is or what its practical use it. I know Bjork used one to make sound on a song called Thunderbolt.
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>>905952
>The 1MV and higher Tesla Coils are massive, several feet above your head high.
That's a bit too big. How much do you think I could get out of something that could fit in a dresser drawer?

>VDGGs are neat, but not what you want to power a Tesla Coil with.
I'm not looking to power a tesla coil with one, I was just saying that I'm basically trying to build an electrostatic generator, but AC & I don't really know any other way to do it.
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>>905954
>How much do you think I could get out of something that could fit in a dresser drawer?

Less than what you can get using a VDG. You may also want to look into make a Wimshurst machine. Either could be used with a Tesla coil when done correctly. You could have wireless power too.
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>>905953
Q = CV
I = dQ/dT
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>>905953
>I don't even know what a Tesla coil really is or what its practical use it.

They are intended for wireless transmission of energy through open air and energy storage and transmission via the Earth. However, no one ever builds the receiver tower. And everyone just builds them for "oooh coool lighting effects! XD" or making music with the sparking sounds. I bet Tesla spins in his grave.

Only now is wireless energy transmission being done really and it is only energy harvesting without a dedicated transmission source,

http://www.mouser.com/applications/rf_energy_harvesting/

Here's a good and rare example of a Tesla Coil being used properly:

http://www.instructables.com/id/Wireless-Energy-Demonstration-Kit/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ku1j6Rol9Lo
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>>906007
Something about charge? Still doesn't really help me. I was confused about high voltage/low current so read about using it in power lines, which makes sense (same power, less current = less cable loss).

I still don't really get how something can be intrinsically high voltage but low current. Doesn't it depend on the impedance of whatever it's connected to?
>>
Is this wireless power transmission safe? presumably it's just high power radio waves.
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>>906093
In moderation, yes. You can use energy harvesting devices for RF signals right now to help recharge low power things like phones or certain little-use transmitters for instance. Those use whatever RF signals they are tuned for, like Wifi for instance. From that you can imagine that it is very safe. Wireless energy harvesting is how a foxhole radio works.

However, the devices sending out the signals that the energy harvesting device uses are all regulated by the FCC for their power output. There are laws to help keep people safe and communications systems/networks from getting fried. If you make a massive Tesla Coil for wireless energy transmission and it isn't caged, it may play havoc with who knows what. Anything from radio interference to messing with pacemakers (which is why some places have microwave-in-use notices for people with old pacemakers.).

Personally, I don't think we need an extra source for wireless energy. Bathing everything in extra EM fields doesn't seem quite right. There's enough stray energy in the air already from everything else in modern life to power quite a bit of electronics. No need to add more. I'd rather use solar, geothermal, wind, biometric, passive wireless energy harvesting, or other such power source before creating wireless power. If all of those could not fit the bill then I'd consider it.

The best places I can think of for wireless transmission of power is in space and on the moon or mars. Even then I'd be more inclined to use point-to-point far-field stuff like lasers and microwave radiation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wireless_power
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>>906065
>Here's a good and rare example of a Tesla Coil being used properly:
wow that is fantastic, why are we still using wires this is the future!!!
/sarcasm
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>>906140
We are already using it. Just not in Tesla coil form. Electric and Hybrid cars and bus are based on the technology. Several countries are starting wireless bus recharging. The coils are embedded into the road surface. Most are in the road at each bus stop. When the bus stops there it activates the power transmission. Other types are being developed so that as the bus drives over it a line of coils send out power so the bus or car doesn't even need to stop to recharge. All use near-field inductive coupling.

http://www.physicscentral.com/explore/action/electric-bus.cfm

Eventually, when electric cars are the norm, no one will need to stop to recharge. They will drive continuously and be recharged as the vehicle travels along the road.
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>>906065
Because the energy attenuation is an inverse square so by the time you've moved away from the tower you can't get no power.

Earth return circuits do exist for very high voltage DC power transmission, earth return is not viable at lower voltages, you'll have like 40 volt swings in your power depending on the weather.
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>>906142
>Just not in Tesla coil form.
we have been using transformers for a long time though
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>>906145
They are not shaped like a Tesla coil and are not massively high voltage as a Tesla coil. That is the point. Also, transformers were not invented by Tesla.
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>>906150
>thatsthejoke.jpg
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>>905468
Volts don't hurt or kill...AMPS do.
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>>906159
I saw it on a documentary on BBC2.
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>>906065
>And everyone just builds them for "oooh coool lighting effects! XD" or making music with the sparking sounds.

I'm doing it for the e-field. It doesn't need to be a tesla coil, I just assumed a solid-state tesla coil would be the best way to change the frequency & boost the voltage.
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>>906159
It's not amps, either, it's current.
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>>906316
current = amps = current

Ampere is the unit of measurement of current.
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>>906160
If volts killed, the first time you encountered static electricity, you'd have died. Static discharge from the human body can be as high as 50,000 volts.
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>>906466
By touching something and getting a shock, you are delivering 50kV to whatever you are touching, in doing so going from from 50kV potential to 0kV potential. The charge is held on your body, and goes to earth via whatever you touch once you break the insulation your shoes provide by touching something. Your body going from 0kV potential to 50kV on the other hand is a totally different story.

Please do not comment on topics you do not know about, or at least run a google search to verify what you *think* is correct is actually correct. Your flawed advice could literally cost a life on a board like this.
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>>906159
>>906316
Wrong. Think of a pipe. Think of water flowing through the pipe. Voltage is the force of the water going through a pipe, amps is the amount of water molecules passing a given point per time unit.

A low flow (volt), high diameter pipe (amps; high diameter = more water molecules passing your test point per second), when aimed at your face, will cool you down. No matter how much water you shoot down the pipe, its moving slowly. A high flow (voltage) pipe, of any diameter, will tear your face off. How much of your face it tears off is obviously tied to how much water (amps) is flowing through the pipe, but a 1mm diameter pipe will still tear your face off if water is being pushed through it (by a high voltage force) fast enough.

In the same way, high voltage will penetrate your skin (insulative layer) much more readily than a low voltage source. This is why wire insulation gets thicker (or changes to more insulative coverings) the higher the volts go. Electrons under a high voltage force, will find a path right through the insulator unless it is thick enough. Current only really comes into it once your insulation is broken down and voltage is flowing (again, water molecules do not move through the pipe when it is "insulated" by an end cap, their motion only becomes measurable when the water is moving). This is why voltage and current are intertwined by P=IV, the amount of work being done (watts) depends on both the flow rate and density of electrons.

Yes EE's, it's not quite that simple, but for the purpose of this thread i'm sure you'll agree it'll do.

>>906470
It should also be noted that a zap from a doorhandle etc is an impulse voltage. Massive level for a poofteenth of a second, not much to worry about. The shit OP's device will be spitting will deliver CONSTANT voltage which will fuck you 12 ways from sideways.
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>>906470
And you've never touched another person and shocked them or been shocked with static?

Stop being a moron. Amps kill, not voltage.

>>906484
pic related, 200 kV to 300 kV at least

Then again, you probably don't know anything about capacitance either.

OP's device has nothing to do with the discussion about amps versus volts and killing. Someone just looks are OP's device having lost of voltage and flips out because they don't know shit. you need to be just as safe and specifically knowledgeable using 120v as you do 1mV.

>water/electric analogy

Get out and go back to school. They are nothing a like in anyway shape or form. Only ignorant people use analogies for electricity.
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Safety First
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebxtqXcCrf4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Xkx7FTWERw
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>>906557
>And you've never touched another person and shocked them or been shocked with static?

That would be a transient voltage, which like the other guy said, lasts for microseconds, and is zero threat. I'm not sure what kind of dense cunt would fail to see that.. Except for faggots like you who refute good information with zero evidence or proofs.

Fuck off back to which ever shithole you came from, we have plenty of trolls here as it is.
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>>906557
> Only ignorant people use analogies for electricity

Ok shitlord, enlighten us.
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>>906575
Simple. Don't use analogies. All are incorrect.

>>906571
>lasts for microseconds, and is zero threat

No dude. The amps are so tiny that it is no threat. It has nothing to do with the duration. Stop getting your science from FOX news.
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>>905481
i wouldn't want to be 100 inches away from that thing or closer if you have to ask for advice.

what are you trying to do, recreate the Philadelphia experiment or mess around with the hutchison effect?

>>906557
>you need to be just as safe and specifically knowledgeable using 120v as you do 1mV.

i'm not the person you replied too but it's not true, high voltage can arc, and its about 1 inch for 10,000v

those thinking high voltage is harmless, go find a 30 inch CRT television or larger, pull off the back, while its powered on and start fiddling with the rubber suction cup thing on the back of the tube and chances are it will KILL you, so i don't advise it.

in high school i once had a classmate try to discharge the tube of the television he was working on to the television i was working on, and like an idiot i forgot everything and tried to remove his clip lead from a heat shield and i got about 3 inches away from it and it arched and my whole left arm was numb for a week, and from what the teacher calculated it was around 28,000v that bit me. i am lucky as the feeling returned to my arm and didn't cause permanent nerve damage. i would rather work around live 3 phase than work around anything over 30,000v because everyone knows 3 phase touches you and can kill, but most uneducated people think high voltage is harmless.

E=IR its called ohm's "law" (E=IR is part of ohm's law, and yes "E" not "V" which stands for electromotive force, i actually went to school for it) for a reason, one of the few laws i know of in physics where gravity is theory because haven't figured out everything on how it works.

what everyone who says it's dangerous should be asking is how many watts do you plan on powering your transformer with? you can trade current for more voltage and more voltage for less current, but when it all comes down to it its all the same watts or as electricians call it for some reason volt-amps.
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>>906587
>specifically knowledgeable

Do you not know that that means? It means exactly what you stated. Meaning all your entire post is pretty much useless. Except for the fact you are a moron that can't read and likes to make blanket statements about things he doesn't understand.
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>>906587
> when it all comes down to it its all the same watts or as electricians call it for some reason volt-amps.

Because of Alessandro Volta, Andre-Marie Ampere, and James Watt.
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>>906587

>look at me, I know everything, I went to school for this

>but I don't know the difference between a watt and a volt-ampere

Christ, just leave.

http://electronicdesign.com/energy/what-s-difference-between-watts-and-volt-amperes
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What about using a Cockcroft-Walton voltage multiplier tied to the output of a flyback transformer?
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>>906594
LOL did you even look at those equations in what you posted. not accounting for "real power" and "apparent power" and the true root mean squared equation though that just account for differences over time.

>>906589
learn ohm's law

guess i'm going to leave this thread, then again i was only trying to help by informing it is actually dangerous, according to some people in this thread i guess neon sign transformers are harmless and the stickers on them are just for show and the potting material is so you can;t reverse engineer them as easily.

OP all you really need is some transformers and account for heat loss
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>>906142
>We are already using it. Just not in Tesla coil form. Electric and Hybrid cars and bus are based on the technology. Several countries are starting wireless bus recharging.

Except inductive coupling is completely different than an RF transmitter/receiver pair?

>Eventually, when electric cars are the norm, no one will need to stop to recharge. They will drive continuously and be recharged as the vehicle travels along the road.

I'm curious as to how much you think it would cost to put in just a 4-lane-road mile's worth of aluminum coils (because you're insane if you think we have enough copper to do that).

Nevermind the issue of "oh, the power went out, there are now 50,000 cars stranded on the 91 freeway". Or what your'e supposed to do if you go somewhere that doesn't have a paved road.
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>>906598
>LOL did you even look at those equations in what you posted. not accounting for "real power" and "apparent power"

>not accounting for "real power" and "apparent power"

You pointed it out yourself and yet you still really don't get it, do you? Fine, I'll spell it out:

Volt-amp is SPECIFICALLY used to refer to apparent power. It's NOT synonymous with watts and electricians don't interchange the two, which is what your oh-so-learned self seems to think.

Here, more of the same information, only maybe you'll comprehend it this time.

http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/textbook/alternating-current/chpt-11/true-reactive-and-apparent-power/
>>
>>906598
Wow, what a faggot.

This has nothing to do with the OP or how dangerous the OP's device is or isn't. This is about volts, amps, and death.

The most that would happen with a working Tesla coil is to get a nasty zap that makes you tingle and jump. You won't even get a burn or scar from it in most cases. There's just not enough amps at all to do anything serious. Not say that someone getting shocked for a long time won't have serious problems. The internal stuff powering the Tesla coil is fucking deadly though. The higher the voltage of the Tesla coil the less danger there is of damage from shock so long as the input wattage is all the same. Higher voltage means lower amps and less danger of damage.

People have been shocked by Tesla coil output since their invention. What can damage you is RF burns from prolonged exposure and zaps directly to your eyes.

>>906601
>RF transmitter/receiver pair?

That isn't what is happening in that. It is just normal induction which is why it only works rather close to the coil. What Tesla wanted to happen was RF transmission for both communications and power transfer, but everything that's been done with them since is just induction. Which is why they have to be so absurdly high voltage.

>I'm curious

I suggest you look that up before posting again so you can understand it. Essentially there's only a few coils here and there. Either at stops or as rows of them once in a while. The entire road isn't powered with coils.

>Or what your'e supposed to do if you go somewhere that doesn't have a paved road.

Why don't you ask the people who are making this technology and installing it? For people who like in E.F.E. they either won't be on the system or will use hybrids that can use fuel or electric.
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>>906615
>That isn't what is happening in that.

> The receiver coil is tuned precisely at 4MHz which is why when my hand is brought near it, the LEDs extinguish as my hand detunes the high-Q circuit.

It even says in the description that he's utilizing the electric field (RF), not the magnetic field. His hand being near it wouldn't affect it if it was magnetically coupled. It gets brighter near the coil simply because it's closer to the transmitter, not that it's more strongly coupled.


>there's only a few coils here and there. Either at stops or as rows of them once in a while. The entire road isn't powered with coils.

Barring some kind of bullshit lobbying or whatever that ends up stalling or completely halting some suitable new battery technology coming to fruition, what's even the point then? If you've got enough battery capacity to get from charger to charger...why not just have a battery big enough to get you where you want to be in the first place? I can't fathom this being anything other than horrendously expensive compared to just having an 100kWh battery in your car instead of a 10kWh one, especially when factoring in maintenance and huge losses to inefficiency (which are going to be around 30%).

Which also makes me realize these things may well need cooling systems, since, again due to losses, they're also going to be functioning as 50kW+ heaters.

Also metering's going to be interesting.


The idea makes sense in very niche cases (like bus routes involving more frequent and very predictable stopping), but for the general driver, it reeks of a pipe dream not quite on par with solar roadways. It just has nothing to offer over a larger battery pack and on-location charging.
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>>906640
I bet you are pro-nuclear power too. kek
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>>906642
>I bet you are pro-nuclear power too.

>It is an inherent Law that all electrical storage mediums must produce significant environmental impact at construction and disposal. - Something Some Guy Probably Said Once

inb4 >muh graphene, etc.
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>>905468
are you serious or just guessing?
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>>906660

He has no clue. At least about the 3-phase part.

1MV is certainly far above what's necessary to kill your bitch ass, assuming your source can supply the necessary current.
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>>906666
Most Tesla coils couldn't kill you from their secondary output even if you were trying. Their input and primary will zap you dead though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RaOMuyy4FDE#t=113
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>>906470
>Please do not comment on topics you do not know about
now say that in the mirror 100 times.
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>>906598
>i guess neon sign transformers are harmless
Plz show who said that
Oh yeah I see, nobody said that, asshole.
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>>906778
Indeed. But, if you do talk about them they normally range from 2 to 15 kV. and 30 - 120 mA. The amps are in the "can't let go" range and could cause death. if prolonged. Police Tasers are around 50kV and 150 to 160 mA for some and as little as 2mA for other older models. They do cause death, lots and lots of death every single year. The newer tasers kill more people than the older ones since they are in the muscle clench range and heart affecting range of amps.

For a Tesla coil, most are in the picoAmp/microAmp range and couldn't possible harm you in the same manner Tasers or NSTs can. The worst you get are RF burns. To prevent those, you simply hold metal or a florescent bulb in your hand before touching the output.
>>
Tesla coil Will do, but you need to know do not exceed current over 25mA, up to that it will be painful to had an accident but will not kill you over that, it may 35mA or over is almost 100% death if will flows threw hart.
Be careful about capacity of Charge, apart of that volts will do nothing.
There is another factor witch anons didn't point you to, frequency, high frequency HV is wery dangerous to nerw system,. with HF HV signals there is a problem, if static current will flow by whole diameter of cable, then higher freq will flow only at skin of cable. the same will be higher emission in radiation etc.keep you generator on low medium freq. if you want to use boostrap or flyback.

You can buy on e-bay or ali-expres, a smal 200kV ignition flyback, itr cost a flew pounds.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DC-3-7-2V-6V-to-200KV-high-voltage-generator-converter-module-ignation-arcing-/151881939354?hash=item235cde799a:g:QuAAAOSwWKtUuw5A
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>>907453
>nerw
Do you mean the nervous system?
>>
>>906007
>>905953
I just had an idea! Use a coil to step up 12V to 100,000V then connect the output to a 1ohm circuit. Bingo! 100,000A of current and a whopping 10,000,000,000W of power.

Ohm's law proves it too:

I=V/R

Free energy for all. I mean voltage is just potential and I've just multiplied the potential so I must be getting the same multiple of useful work at the other end...
>>
>>906787
>Police Tasers are around 50kV and 150 to 160 mA
This makes absolutely no sense to me. What's to stop me connecting it to a 1ohm circuit and getting 50kA of current.

How can something just "be" low current? All I see here is 50,000 heaps of potential current.
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>>909368
I'm not sure what you are getting at. Perhaps you should better understand how tasers work.

http://www.homemade-circuits.com/2014/06/diy-taser-gun-circuit.html
>>
>>909375
I just don't get high voltage/low current. Voltage is potential current right? So doubling the voltage doubles the potential current?

Ohm's law seems to hold for that statement.
>>
>>909367
>>909368
>connect the output to a 1ohm circuit.
>connecting it to a 1ohm circuit

That's not how it works.
>>
>>906088
Any device has an output impedance.
And thus the whole acts like a voltage divider when connected or arced to a low impedance device and the voltage drops.
The "problem" or notorious dangerous aspects of high voltage devices is that air acts like a non-ohmic device (it's resistance lowers with applied voltage in this case) and when an arc is drawn, the ionised air acts for all intent or purpose as a straight copper cable.
Since theses kinds of transformers ( and generally anything magnetic based ) act more like constant power instead of constant voltage one, once you have a low impedance route through the arc, you can dump the necessary current to kill or damage.
Any neon, gas , vapour lamp works this way.
> hv ignites arc
> lv causes high current
>>
>>909378
http://www.electronicstheory.com/html/e101-1.htm

Don't stop reading until you finished page 75.
>>
>>909380
>act more like constant power
* act more like a constant power source

my brain turned off

To people asking why you can't get one gazillion ambz from a taser :
imagine the output is directly connected to a 1Mohm resistor.
It's not *really* there, but the intrinsic proprieties of the circuit make it act like such thus limiting the maximum amperage you can get out of it.
Thread posts: 61
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