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Hey /diy/, I'm looking for tips/possible flaws in my project.

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File: fire.png (473KB, 472x409px) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
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Hey /diy/, I'm looking for tips/possible flaws in my project.

I need to set up a mock fire in a jungle for a videoshoot.
>using digital fire is not an option
>I cannot damage the jungle in any way
>I need to present the project to the owner of the jungle patch (it's in private grounds) to prove I won't set fire to his 100+ years old trees

The video
>doesn't need to show the ground
>will be focused on the model, so the fire doesn't need to be huge (only used as a first backdrop, the second being the jungle itself)

So I was thinking of building fire containers from metal tins/huge paint cans and simply shoot in an angle so they don't show
My plan is to
>wet the whole area to make sure that if anything spills it won't spread
>place cinder blocks underneath cans so the heat doesn't affect the plants/soil (or place them on a small concrete area near a clearing)
>have absurd quantities of fire extinguishers at hand

Anything wrong with that? The area is not windy at all, and is humid.
Also accepting fuel suggestions, like what would produce the tallest fire and least smoke.
Thanks in advance!
Super dry leaves and kerosene will make gigantic flames.
>possible flaws

- hell, no - what could go wrong?
Hey OP, is using real fire necessary?

I mean if its just for a video where the fire will not be the main focus and more like a background, couldn't you use mock fire? Like with pieces of fabric and fans.

Pic related. Because when you are using real fire in an environment with loads of fuel.. You're just asking for trouble
I know it sounds risky and all, but the scenes will be short (a couple seconds long), the place is tropical and extremely humid. I'll wet everything before the fire part with a power hose, and the fire won't be on the ground or near the trees.

Pic related, took 19 hours in Adobe Illustrator
I thought about that, I'm just afraid it won't look real enough. The model is international and the camera is a super expensive RED, it would be a ton of trouble to find out that it looks cheap during the post-production.
Are greenscreens a choice?
What's your budget for the fire effect?
In that case you might want to check that your real fire looks "real" on camera beforehand.
Not really under the shooting conditions

I've got 5k dollars for the whole music video, but the best part is... it's gonna be filmed in a third world tropical country. Which means we've got almost 20k local money (a surreal value since minimum wage there is 700 local money/month).
So I'd say... 1k local money for the fire is more than enough, I could set fire to the whole fucking jungle if I wanted with 1k worth of fuel/equipment

Yeah, definitely gonna do that. Worst case scenario, I'm gonna buy a shitload of tropical plants, build a small patch of jungle on a safe area and set it on fire for real.
Was I the only one who thought of pic related when seeing this thread?
File: image.jpg (31KB, 314x236px) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
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File: cover.png (9KB, 1152x648px) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
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You seem to have money enough. Some guys should weld you these fire boxes. Dunno what material you use for high flames but they should weld covers on the boxes so you can put out the fire emediately if you like and just have to extinguish the surroundings of necessary
You don't need real flames on location, but you still do need real flames

>>>/3/ can tell you how to composite real flames onto scenery using simulation software like Houdini.
In that case, suggest hauling in and temp planting a line of palms and setting fire to them. It is common to move and plant these tall (15 -20 ft) because root ball is so small. Give yourself a fire gap between real forest and planted tree line. When done, remove burned trees and fill holes.

With cheap labor the hand planting and restoration should be cheap. Suggest use diesel to fuel tree burn.
Since it's 3rd world anyway, spend some of your budget on a local welder to make you 3 or 4 troughs, abt a foot deep and a foot wide. fill them with burnables. Here's a problem though: Smoke. Is that going to fuck up your scene? You could use a bunch of sticks soaked in kerosene, (Sticks for flame height), but you'll have to relight them constantly to keep the height consistant and kerosene's a smoky bitch.

Actual gasoline/petrol is a wee bit explosive for safety purposes.

but anyway, get a local to make you a bunch of troughs out of metal. I would think you could get the whole mess made for less than 40USD.
He wants high proof alcohol and lots of it. plus a little bit of something else for color.
Thank you all for the great replies! I'll look into everything you guys gave me.
I've decided to do a mix of evrything mentioned here: Build a fake patch of jungle, set fire to small trees a little further away from the ones in the back, then use troughs to make the fire look more "dense".
I'll probably use alcohol, but I'll use both liquid and solid to experiment a bit.
The plants will be store-bought and any that don't get burned will be planted after the shooting.
Alcohol produces a very pale blue flame that's barely visible in the light, I wouldn't recommend it.

Use gasoline or kerosene for big, bright yellow flames.
Alcohol burns invisibly to the camera.
Gas smokes like hell and is hard to control. You blow it up with det cord for fireballs, but lasting flames with gasoline are bad.

Use propane or butane. It is much safer because it is easier to control. Any open fuel is immediately burned and once you close the valve the fire is out. And it will give you that movie flame visual you are looking for.

You get the supplies at any hardware store. Look in the roofing section. It won't be cheap, but you can sell it again after (for a fraction). There's even burners with electric fans for drying construction sites. Turn the pressure up too high and they become very cineastic flame throwers.

The biggest safety concern will be distance. Force the perspective on the background and make sure you have at least 5 yards between largest possible flame and any branches, leaves, or undergrowth. Even wet plants burn like hell if they contain enough oils.

Fire extinguishers are bad. Not only will they ruin the shot, but they will also leave powder everywhere. CO2 only works indoors. Get a foam extinguisher as backup, but be prepared to first use water. The best way to extinguish small fires is a plant mister. There's bigger ones that work with pressure you pump into the canister which will give you a greater output. But to get out a fire you don't need lots of water, you just need it well dispersed. And this will have the least impact on both the plant life and your background.

Make sure all your gas cans, lines, and burners are well secured. Building a solid base seems like a prudent idea. Tie everything down so someone stumbling into it won't be a problem.

Have several people responsible for safety. One handles just a burner. Another stands ready with water and fire extinguisher. A third is prepared to help the talent should anything go wrong.

And make sure you're insured! You don't want to keep paying for the rest of your life because of a stupid mistake.
Really, op should be in contact with local FD and they should have a rig on standby.

Alternatively, most large farmers have a small firetrucks of their own. Only used in harvest. Perhaps you can rent it and a couple operators.
>Worst case scenario, I'm gonna buy a shitload of tropical plants, build a small patch of jungle on a safe area and set it on fire for real.
The problem is a rapidly decaying set. You can't have multiple takes, you can't edit it together, the state of the plants just establish a time line that the image has to stick with.

You cannot actually consume anything in frame. Actors don't actually drink because refilling their glasses to the same exact level for every take is a pain. I've done it. If you have a fire that is more than a passing practical effect or an insert then here's what you do:

Construct a facsimile of the material that is supposed to burn in frame out of chicken wire, gypsum, and oven paint. Put it on top of a concealed gas burner with a low flame. When the assistant director yells READY or GO BACKGROUND you turn it up so that the flames reach up through the faux log or whatever you made. CUT and you turn it down again. Gas flames will leave very little charring, none if you position them well. So you have a consistent picture for however many takes it takes.
Doesn't anyone do movie fx here?
Geeze, fire for movies use fixed propane burners.
Camouflaged behind windows/rubble.
These an be regulated for flame height and intensity. And...they can be set to be the same flame take after take.
Mr. Director (OP) doesn't seem to have been on sets with professional fx people. I wonder if this is a high school project...
Same thought / Same time
>wet the area
If you're using a petroleum based liquid fuel that might help it spread, if it gets knocked over it could glide across pockets of water. Probably best to just clear the area so it's just dirt, and keep the fire very small.

You could always use a fuel gas too, like propane, no risk of spillage.
flash cotton, lots of flash cotton
/p/ here

OP, take two different exposures or videos. one of a fire at night (so the background is darker and will easier to separate) at a different location where you can do whatever you want, and then shoot the model in the jungle.

combine in post
Maybe put some of those fire containers behind some of the trees if you can
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