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Do /diy/ have some PDF's or guides on making chaimail? anything

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Do /diy/ have some PDF's or guides on making chaimail?
anything chainmail is fair, garments, jewelry, etc
>>
>>863066
no but I know some nice forums/sites about it.

If you were a little more specific I would be able to post something

since you are not here is an easy pouch tutorial that I am following to test my homemade rings, it will be done in about 6 more hours.
http://www.mailleartisans.org/articles/articledisplay.php?key=170

basic weaves with tutorial:
http://www.mailleartisans.org/weaves/weavelist.php?tags=Fav

more free tutorials:
http://www.theringlord.org/forum/index.php?/forum/24-free-weave-tutorials/

Place to buy rings :
http://www.theringlord.org/


I am looking for a nice (preferably free) pattern for a dragonscale tie with small ring diameter.
Does anyone know a good one ?
>>
>>863190
well I guess op is gone, no wonder when he is too lazy to just google it.
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>>863209
Not OP, but what's the best way to cut rings? I'm using 16 gauge stainless steel wire, and the dinky wire clipper I bought doesn't cut 1mm, never mind 16 gauge.

I bought a much larger one, rated for 20mm or something, that I'm still waiting on. Altogether, that was about £6.
>>
>>863210
I managed with a small set of bolt cutters.

Leave the wire on the dowel and use a hack saw for a cleaner cut
>>
do you anons wind the steel around something, like a spring, then seperate the coils? or just make one ring at a time?
>>
Was mail hardened historically?
>>
>>863221
use a steel rod - a hand-cranked rod of steel lets you wind a hundred links at a time.
Dont use a power drill - its asking for a finger to get caught in it. google "degloving injury" if you really want to know what it does.

>>863224
historically, the vast majority of mail from roman and medieval archaeological contexts is low-carbon wrought wire, or stamped sheet, also from wrought.

hardened steel is a nightmare to draw for that sort of use.

also, of course, unless you're doing japanese 6-in-1 sewn to a silk backing, historical mail from europe, india or persia is 99% riveted link, not butted. I honestly cant think of a single known example of butted medieval-dated european mail.

also, for a supplier of riveted links:

http://www.capapie.co.uk/index.php?route=product/category&path=60_89
>>
>>863210

I had a pretty sturdy pair of straight cut tin snips, if you get a shitty set it will be suffering still though. I was only cutting softer steel though and even then it's a lot of strain on your wrist if you are going to cut a shitload of rings.
>>
>>863190
>I am looking for a nice (preferably free) pattern for a dragonscale tie with small ring diameter.
>Does anyone know a good one ?

Dragon scale is best sized with rings that are AR 4.0 & 6.1 if both rings are they same wire diameter. If you use different wire diameters the basic rule of thumb is that the small rings need an inner diameter that is at least 4 times that of the wire diameter of the larger rings. And the larger rings need an inner diameter that is slightly larger than the ID of the smaller ring plus twice the wire diameter of the small ring.

I prefer using a gauge size smaller for the inner rings to add more dimension.

Start assembling your dragonscale and size it to width of a tie that you like. Get it to the right length. Stitch up the two sides near the top using a basic e4-1 weave.

Make a chain to hang the tie around your neck using an adjustable clasp. It will be under your collar so nothing fancy.

Next stitch up another dragonscale patch to act as teh knot that wraps around teh hanging portion of the tie and the chain
>>
You would think that /diy/ would come up with a fancy press that cuts their wire for them.
Maybe even make a fancy attachment that presses their wires into a sine wave that they can cut in half. Or turns wire into coil that gets chopped off at intervals to be pressed.
>>
>>863226
>Dont use a power drill
i was thinking of using a coil winder attachment on my lathe, with my hands nowhere near the action
>>
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>>863257
>>863216
My snips are only good for something like 0.8mm sheet, something ridiculous. I don't know quite how blunt they, but they were dead cheap.

Anyway, here's my bolt cutter. It just doesn't cut it. It was actually rated for 2mm or something, but it fails to cut rings cut from the 16 wire next to it. It can cut the wire, with some effort. I also noticed the jaws aren't touching at max grip, which strikes me as a defect, even though I unlocked the jaws all the way. The rings also don't fit all the way in, obviously, but it takes an unreal amount of force to simply make a dent in the ring towards the edge of the jaw, and I can't get it to the inner bit where there'd be more force because of the shape of the jaw.

Should I buy another, higher rated one, or what? I've got a hack saw, and some G clamps, but this oak desk isn't going to be a good substitute for a woodbench, and it's certainly not going to secure the rings somehow for hacksawing. I think I've only got wood blades anyway, so

>anon, your picture is upside down
>>
>>864446
>woodbench,
Workbench.

Although, I don't own a wooden bench, either.
>>
>>863210
The best rings are saw cut.
Since you are using galvanized you should not do that since zinc smoke is pretty bad for you.

if it is for armor you will be fine with a wire cutter but it will snag on the clothes you wear underneath.

For smaller mail or jewelry I would suggest saw cut rings. Silver copper and other semi soft metals can be cut with a jewelers saw.
>>
>>864908
>but it will snag on the clothes you wear underneath.
How badly? I'm planning to sew an arming doublet.

And I still need to get a decent bolt cutter.
>>
>>864910
It depends you should test it with a small (10*10 cm) patch.
A file should be able to remove a thorn from the rings when you feel one.


The easiest solution would be to wear a black or brown shirt underneath that you only use with that mail.
That is needed anyway since galvanized wire leaves stains.
Some people even claim that the zinc can be absorbed trough the skin.
After looing into some medical papers that seems to be impossible unless it has been cleaned with vinegar or lemon juice.

I would suggest looking around on some of the sites I mentioned before.They have some other solutions ranging from tumblers with sand to ways of breaking the rings instead of using wire cutters.

I have not that much experience with this since I have only made jewelry mail before. It is a lot cheaper to but your rings for jewelry pre-cut.

I have about 100 chrome plated rings of AR 6 left over from a Persian chain I made for someone. Does anyone know a fun object for a keychain that I could make with them?
>>
>>864910
oh I forgot to link to this page. http://www.mailleartisans.org/articles/articledisplay.php?key=19

It gives some information about the metal types and ways to make rings.
>>
I feel like if you're going to go chainmail then you should seriously use products that's recyclable. Soda Tab Chainmial.
>>
>>865478
Have a fun beeing laugthed at at your local history reconstruction event.
>>
>>865478
so using metal wire that is 100% recyclable is bad?

Dude the amount of carbon in the armosfere for the transport of the cans is enormous.
The amount of soda cans you need for a piece of armor will give you diabetes.

I guess that you will buy more cans when working on a project like this making the end result worse for the environment then normal (wire) chainmail.

People can be so stupid sometimes.
>>
>>865482
>Have a fun beeing laugthed at at your local history reconstruction event.

actually, most reenactors I know would grin, buy you some beers, and congratulate you on your lunacy.

then tell you to take it off before the public arrive and put a proper one on.
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>>865478
This is primary school tier, though. On the same level as cardboard plate. A strong breeze will make it fall apart.

>>865483
>will give you diabetes.
>you will buy more cans
According to Youtube, kids and fat people make them. That is to say, people who already either have diabetes, have a surplus of empty cans, or both.

Anyway, I imagine a number of scenarios where wearing this (as in, not simply hiding it somewhere) lends itself to breaking. Some guy comes over to congratulate you, because he's also retarded, and BAM, just as he places his hand on your shoulder, the whole thing falls apart.

Or, you go to a bar after LARPing or whatever, and one of your friends throws a can at the bin, misses, and hits you instead. Critical damage! The whole suit falls apart. The chair you're sat on falls apart. The earth crumbles around you. The apocalypse is nigh, all because you made some shitty "green" chainmail that's completely dysfunctional and looks horrible.

What will really happen, if anyone other than social media cuddly toys or Youtube cuddlers see it, is you'll get funny looks and hear whispers of "Is that guy wearing can fobs?", "Dude, gross." and "I bet he sold his ass on Craigslist to get those tabs."
>>
>>865087
so no one has a use for some rings with an AR of 6 ?

I have been looking for keychain objects to make with it but they all need an AR of 3 - 5.5

Please let me know if you have a good idea.
>>
>>865478

As stupid as using can tabs is (and as stupid as thinking using can tabs is more eco-friendly than wire is), I have to admit the pattern that the figure-8 shaped tabs make is pretty nice.
>>
>>865478
I came to this thread just to say this. Its not very strong but its very lightweight.
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>>864910
If you want nicer seams than you'll get from pinch-cut rings, try cutting just 1/4 to 1/2 of the way through the ring then wiggle it back and forth with a pair of pliers so that it shears off fairly flat. Pic related.
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>>865482
Not everyone weaves for history. Pic related.

>>866265
AR=6 is a size I could never find good weaves for. Pic uses ~6.4, and I know another cool weave for (ideally) AR=5.6.
>>
>>866493
wow those rings look nice.

so if I understand this correctly you use bolt cutter to make a guide cut and then you "break" the metal to achieve a ring with a flat cut.

how long does it take /ring and how often do they break where you don't want them to?
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>>866265
>>866494
Here's that AR=5.6 weave, although this uses 5.2 (16 swg, 5/16") and is rigid. You can try it with AR=6 if you can figure the weave out. There are no tutorials for it however I can guide you through it if you'd like.

>>866495
Basically, yes. The type of material you use will greatly affect how they break and how far into them you need to cut. Those rings were aluminum which snaps off very easily with a 1/4-depth cut whereas brass or steel may take a few prying motions with a 1/2-depth cut. They take slightly longer to cut this way, however if you get a good rhythm going you can work about 90% as fast as fast as you could pinch-cutting. They never break anywhere but the at the score, however if the score was not deep enough you might get some warped wire near the ends of your rings. It takes practice but it's worth it in the long run for sure.
>>
>>866494
yea I know, I bought those rings to make a Persian chainmail tie-chain for a someone. but had some left over.

Its a pretty annoying AR indeed, the fact that they have an ID of 3mm (~1/8") does not help either.
>>
>>866497
>AR 6, 1/8" ID
That's really small. Maybe try to find a nice AR 4 ring to pair it with and make some tiny dragonscale?
>>
>>866344
So is my tshirt
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I want to talk about chain mail, guys.
>>
here's a dragonback bracelet i did
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>>867042
a little something with mobius flowers
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>>867044
I'm working on some 14ga steel gauntlets now. I tried riveted mail, but my whitney punch head is shitty soft chinese steel. I also don't have a decent set of rivet tongs so I'm just kind of blowtorching the rivets then mashing them with pliers
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This is the last big piece I've done in a while.

>14 swg 7/16" brass Moorish rose ball with 1/4" machine screws
>16 swg 5/16" stainless Jens Pind Linkage 5 chain
>16 swg 5/16" stainless double pencil weave handle
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>>867047
It looks nice, but the bolts really let it down. Don't suit it at all.
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>>867052
eh, they look alright.
>>
What is the best diameter of the rings for chainmail?? I am using 6mm flat rings, these are not made from the wire.
>>
For "practical" use, riveted mail is best, if not 100% the AT LEAST do yourself the favour of doing it along the neck and across the shoulders at least 3 layers deep to prevent splitting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_NdBxcj-OI
>>
>>867081
It depends what type of chainmail do you want to make?

The diameter alone is not that important, just the ratio between the wire diameter and the inner diameter of the ring is.
This ratio is known as the aspect ratio and is calculated like this : AR = ID(inner diameter) /WD (wire diameter)
Keep in mind that the ID and WD need to be in the same unit both mm or inch. If you use the gauge for the WD and inch for ID you will get the wrong AR.

Each chainmail weave has a specific range of AR in which it works. For some that range is very small for some you can use almost anything as long as its a ring.

for euro 4-in-1 an AR of 4-5 is good for armor, you can go as low as 2.8 but you will end up with a very stiff sheet of mail.
There is no real upper limit for this weave but once you get a high AR you will have so much air in between that it just looks silly. If you would like to reduce the weigh you can go for 5.5 or 6 but it may look a little "off".
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>>867081
That's a great size for European 4 in 1. Different weaves will require different aspect ratios though. The most important thing is how many rings you want to have to weave to make a complete piece. Pic is 14 swg, 7/16" brass and took less than a week to make.
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>>867081
>>867315
And this pic is 20 awg, 1/8" stainless steel and has taken several years so even get this much done-- mostly because it's a pain to work with.
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>>867317
i have padding...somewhat
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>>868331
I should specify that it's the shirt that took years. The glove only took a week or two to that point.

That's a cool glove though.
>>
>>868331
groovy
>>
>>867317
where did you buy the stainless steel ?
Did you buy rings or wire?
Is it a lot harder to work with then iron/galv steel? how easy is it do bend them closed.
What type of stainless steel do you use.
>>
>>863066
Do like I did, OP. Get some jump rings and some pliers, look at the pattern real hard and copy it. I've been doing this for seven years now.
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>>868925
I bought the rings from theringlord.com. I do not recommend coiling stainless yourself because the springback can be very dangerous compared to softer metals like aluminum and galvanized steel, not to mention that it's significantly harder to cut through. Typically I make every ring I use from wire except for stainless.

The rings in that pic are only 20 awg so they are very easy to open with the right pliers. This piece uses 14 swg, 5/16" rings and these are actually quite difficult to open and close depending on the weave.

I think the kind of steel changes depending on the size of the ring. I can't find the exact alloys on the Ring Lord's website but they also have spring-temper rings available which are even stronger.
>>
>>863066
Okay, Besides patterns. what are the best Materials to use for chain mail?.. For example out of this list below what would be the better ones? has anyone worked with them? how do they preform? assuming they are all the same gauge. [there's some ones I know that prob wouldn't be very good but there in there for jewelry proposes to obtain more information on them and how well they are DIY'd together from wire stock.]

Mild Steel wire
Stainless steel wire.
Brass wire.
Bronze wire.
Ni-AI-aluminum wire.
Silicone bronze wire.
Galvanized steel wire.
Copper wire.
Hard Silver wire.
Nickle wire.
Platinum Wire.
Titanium wire.
Case Hardened "steel" wire?
Gold wire.


>>869134
you should see the spring back from twist hardening 6 Gauge copper rods cold forming.... LOL nasty stuff when it breaks and whips.
>>
>>869148
>Mild Steel wire
Will rust badly. Use only for strict historical work where galvanized won't be close enough.
>Stainless steel wire.
Best material there is for hobby work. Probably nigh impossible to rivet though if you'd planned on doing that.
>Brass wire.
Great for trim but very heavy and expensive as a main material.
>Ni-AI-aluminum wire.
Great for pieces with no strength requirements due to light weight and low cost. Over time a grey oxide will form and rub off onto clothes and skin. Not durable enough to make heavy pieces.
>Galvanized steel wire.
Great starting material. Easy to obtain and work with, cheap, and relatively strong and passable for period pieces.
>Copper wire.
Great for trim but very heavy and expensive as a main material.
>Titanium wire.
Very strong but not much stronger than stainless at about 1/2 the weight of steel. Very expensive.
>Nickel wire.
Somewhere between copper and galvanized steel in strength, interesting pale gold color. Good for trim, probably not good as a main material but I could be wrong.
>Bronze wire.
>Silicone bronze wire.
>Hard Silver wire.
>Platinum Wire.
>Case Hardened "steel" wire?
>Gold wire.
i have no experience with these.
>>
>>869164
Could you also provide some sources on where people could gather large spools of wire of either 12 or 10 gauge. Its easy to find 50 foot spools of 20 gauge.
>>
>>867315
That brass chain looks beautiful.
>>
How much easier is galvanised to work with than stainless wire?

At the moment, I honestly can't cut this stainless wire with my 8" bolt cutter.
>>
>>869290
galvanized is generally mild steel. it's much softer.
>>
>>869291
Oh, I have mild steel plate lying around. I know what that's like. It's just that I've never worked with wire or any other kind of steel.

So, very good to know.
>>
>>863066
No
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>>869201
theringlord.com has some of those materials in 12 swg, but I'd highly recommend against going any bigger than that unless you have a very specific purpose in mind, a very strong grip, and enough experience with chain mail to know if you'll actually want to finish a piece in that size. Pic is a small patch of 8 swg, 2" copper rings. I doubt I would have been able to work with them at all had they been steel. 14 or 16 swg are the typical sizes people use.

Although 12 awg = 14 swg and 10 awg = 12 swg so I'm not quite sure which one you meant.

>>869292
Be aware that there is also spring-temper stainless which is even stronger than regular stainless. I broke a pair of wire cutters trying to cut a piece of 12 swg spring.
>>
>>869540
so assuming I wanted to make chainmail for my cat... and wanted to do it out of bronze. what size wire would I be looking at?

[no im not trolling, I really wanna make chainmail for my cat..]
>>
>>869554
Try 16 swg, 5/16" rings in Euopean 4-1. The aspect ratio is a little big, but since you're using bronze wire the large AR should keep the weight down. Ideally you'd use 20 awg, 1/8" but it would take a very long time.

Alternatively you could use bronze-colored anodized aluminum in 14 swg, 5/16" which would be quite light and would have a better aspect ratio than the 16 swg, 5/16". The downside is that the color will rub off and fade over time.

Approximate the square footage required by measuring a tube around the cat and from the neck to the base of the tail, then make a small patch of whatever material you want to use and weigh it. Then calculate the total weight of the project. I'd try to keep it under 5 lbs total but the absolute maximum would be the weight of the cat itself.
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>>869582
Well I can measure the fabric pattern for the cat. to get the square footage. I don't want the rings grabbing the cats fur as it moves around, and im not gonna keep it on my cat, just gonna shitpost on /b/ with it.

I also thought about aluminum but I'd just use it raw instead of anodized.

But how do I determine how much wire I need?

I have a 10mm diameter rod with holes already drilled for twisting wire. that should give a circumference of 31.4mm and using 16 swg [1.6mm thick] that would make the wires OD 11.6mm. and the finally circumference of 36.5mm.

now from here how do determine how much wire I need? Assuming each ring is going to be about 36.5mm long.

where do I go from here math wise to find out how much I need?
>>
>>869591
You can find approximate rings per square foot on the Ring Lord's website under the "rings" category.
http://theringlord.com/cart/shopdisplayproducts.asp?id=16&cat=Machine+Cut+Bright+Aluminum+Jump+Rings

14 swg, 10mm rings would be great for this project if you use aluminum. From the link above you can find 14 swg, 3/8" (~9.91 mm) rings which indicates 1272 rings per square foot. Do some math, round up for safety, 164 feet or so per square foot. 1 lb of aluminum wire from TRL is about 180 feet, so you shouldn't need more than 2 lbs unless your cat is extremely large.
>>
>>869604
When you twist aluminum wire onto a rod, when you let off the tension does it get larger by a mm or two?
>>
>>869615
Yes. You'll probably end up with 10.5mm rings. It won't make much of a difference and it's better to overestimate your materials anyway.
>>
>>869621
cool nice to know, I think I'm gonna go try to find a 5mm steel rod tomorrow. Just rolled some 10mm rings and they look way too large for my cats size. lol I should need a max of 3 sq feet of ring material too. that's with allowance.
>>
>>869628
Shoot for 6.5 - 7mm with 16 swg wire. You're going to want an AR of 4 for nice-looking Euro 4-1. 5mm would put you barely over AR 3 which will be hell to weave. You could go with 5mm if you use 18 swg wire instead.

Make sure you check the rings per square foot for the size you'll be using and calculate the right amount of wire to buy at that size.
>>
>>869540
I don't know what this stainless is, I just know it's stainless wire, and although I can bend it with a hand, it won't cut.
>>
>>867317

Looks absolutely amazing, how heavy is it? And whats 20 and 1/8" in metric?
>>
>>869718
Get heavier cutters. Maybe even compound-action if necessary. But I wouldn't recommend using a material you're having so much difficulty with for a whole project.

>>869743
The "sports bra" sized piece I have so far is like 5 lbs or so. 20 awg = 0.8mm and 1/8" = 3.2mm.
>>
>>869941
OP my cutters suck, or the jaws don't fit into the curled wire.. and my dremel is on the fritz again, fucking brushes in these new ones drive me fucking nuts!
>>
>>863265
I've got a shear press, but it would be a pain in the ass to cut small pieces for links with it.
>>
I don't want to shit on this or anything but I really can't stand measuring stuff in inches, 1/8", 4/16", 32/84 etc. It's the same in archery and it's impossible to get a good guess how frickin much it is in mm. Using google to convert it to 8.32mm or what have you odd number isn't helping either.

Any good tips to manage it?
>>
>>870211
1/8th - 3mm
3/16th - 4.75mm
1/4 - 6mm
5/16th - 8mm
3/8 - 9.5mm
1/2 - 12mm

those are the most common ones. not accurate, but close enough.

you should never see 4/16ths, because its reductable fraction, and a measurement is always reduced to the lowest fractional number. - 4 16s is the same as 2 8s, which is the same as 1 4th. so you'll always see it as 1/4, unless the person's an idiot.

as I say, close enough that it'll work for general getting a measure on how big someone's talking. Unfortunately, there's three countries in the world which have still to adopt SI, and one is one of the most vocal on the internet...
>>
>>870219
Thanks mate I'll save this for later use.
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>>870211
It'd be best to acquaint yourself with the standard for this hobby if you wish to pursue it, however approximate metric equivalents are often provided in some resources but you'll still find yourself having to convert on your own. I had to learn kilograms when I started lifting weights otherwise half of what /fit/ had to say was nonsense to me. The easiest approximation I found for that was 0.45 kilos = 1 lb, and likewise 2.54 cm = 1 inch for this. Another helpful tip I can offer is that the length of the last segment of your index finger, from the tip to the knuckle, is approximately one inch.
>>
>>870221
> with the standard for this hobby if you wish to pursue

The standard in one country: America.

getting mail made by in the Ukraine by reenactors? Metric. Wedge-riveted mail links by Cap-a-pie in the UK? Metric. Czech spring butted? Metric. Indian galvanised? Metric. Japanese 6-in-1 sewn to a silk backing? Metric.

Imperial measurements, used by Myanmar, Liberia, and the US, are not the "standard". The american insistence on the use of imperial is the anomaly.
>>
>>870224
Just like the crowns need to drive on the WRONG SIDE OF THE ROAD!? Yeah my point exactly...
>>
>>870224
The largest distributor of mail supplies in the world uses imperial measurements. That is what I meant.

Every country in the world belongs to America anyway.
>>
I prefer SI>Metric>Imperial, but live in the USA, and have to just deal with it.
>>
>>869554
there is a guy in SF that makes armour for cats and mice. Sadly its only for decorations since cats will go a great length to get rid of the armour and destroy it in the process
>>
>>870224
>Imperial measurements, used by Myanmar

Myanmar is changing to metric, in 5 years it will be just the US and its former slave colony.
>>
>>870357
just start using metric, once those idiots need to use a convertor their brains will melt and the ratio of metric to non metric will be a little closer to metric
>>
>>865478
>>866344
forged in the depths of Mount Dew
>>
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>>872044
kek
>>
Alright, so I've been thinking about making some "historical" maille with riveted and solid links from spring steel. I can do all of this, but I would like to have it chrome plated to ward off any rust. Would this potentially lead to a problem, such as chromium poisoning if I were to wear it on a daily basis, or at all for that matter?
>>
>>873932
Not likely, unless you shower with it on and eat off it and shit. Anything that would've leeched into your skin will be stopped by the gambeson underneath. Unless you're and idiot and decide to wear it without anything underneath.

I'd be more concerned with the rings not plating evenly if you do it with them connected.
>>
>>873948
You mean where the links touch each other?
>>
>>873956
Yeah, exactly. And they might all stick together if you electroplate.
>>
>>873966
Is there any way to prevent that?
Such as perhaps moving, or 'jostling' it while it's electroplating?
>>
>>873932
Spring steel is generally stainless. If you're making historical pieces you would likely be using mild steel, but if you plan on plating it you may as well just use stainless anyway.

>>873969
You can try electroplating on a vibratory tumbler but you may have issues with getting the current to flow across all the rings in the piece.
>>
>>866494
And I'd probably look for titanium sheets, myself, in this configuration.

Because damn, I'd love that.
>>
>>874241
It's among the most difficult weaves to learn but I can post a tutorial sometime this week if you'd like.
>>
>>873978
I would be using spring steel that is similar to what is in a leaf spring, therefore it is not entirely stainless, and It's not truly historical, as it isn't mild steel. The intention that I have is to make a nigh indestructible piece of fully functioning armor with has pretty much zero maintenance.

If I could achieve this with stainless I'd be wiling to do so, but I would imagine that spring steel that has been properly tempered is stronger than stainless.

Unless, perhaps I'm wrong?
>>
>>874551
Unless you're welding or riveting your rings you will never get anywhere near indestructible. Stainless will give you a no-maintenance product and the spring steel rings The Ring Lord sells are a stainless alloy. If you plan on making your own rings form your chosen alloy that's fine, but be aware that it may take a degree of treatment to protect against corrosion and there's no guarantee it'll be as resistant as stainless.

In general though I'd say that the hypothetical marginal increase in strength between stainless and spring steel is not worth the extra effort needed to prevent rust.
>>
>>874559
The prior post stated that I would indeed be alternating betwixt riveted and welded links.

Also, are you saying that the better option would be stainless? Your wording was slightly confusing.
>>
>>874635
Stainless would be less work for you with a nearly identical level of strength.

I've never seen stainless riveted, although if you heat the links before flattening them it should work.
>>
>>869941
>Get heavier cutters.
How is this thread still here? Anyway, I can't afford them right now, I'm overdrawn and I need to stretch £100 over two weeks, which isn't difficult, but very boring.

I'll just use galvanised. This stainless stuff is way too strong, it's cut up my hands slightly because as I apply unreasonable amounts of force to my 8" cutter, it comes back to hurt me.
>>
Hey, my browser updated and I can't see replies.

What about REAL maille, like what sharksuits are made of?
>>
>>876073
Everything posted in this thread is REAL maille.

And shark suits are essentially the same as >>867317 except every ring is welded.
>>
Is there a table somewhere with wire thickness and shear size, or should I just buy the biggest shear I can with triangular pointed teeth?
>>
I'm working on my first haubergeon/hauberk and I was planning on adding sleeves tapered with hole-row contractions. However, my mobility is hindered by what I have now. The shoulder part of the shirt where the sleeve should star hangs down over my biceps. and if I try and raise my arm up further than 90 degrees the shirt sort of gets in the way and digs in to my arm. I can post a picture later, but just from the information available, what would you recommend? Such as, making the sleeve-holes smaller, decreasing the actual width of the shirt, or something else?
>>
>>874777
>how is this thread still here
Welcome to /diy/, where the threads stay on the front page for days without new posts.
It takes weeks for threads to die, provided nobody posts.
>>
>>876285
Coincidentally, I was just reading the thread and you got my hopes up that someone had replied with something of worth.

I know how slow the board is.
>>
>>876197
You want wire cutters for chain mail, not shears.
>>
>>876294
I don't know why I wrote shears when I meant cutters.

Will 8" be enough for 2mm brass?
>>
>>876295
The choice of cutter isn't all that important as long as you can get through your wire and actually reach the jaws where you need them in a coil. I use the same pair for everything from 8g, 2" rings to 20g, 1/8".

8" should be fine.
>>
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>>876298
The 8" pair I'm using right now have a tiny gap in the teeth. They don't fully close. Do I need one that does?

I've never actually made anything out of rings before, although I've read every single posted in these threads.
>>
>>876304
The bolt won't move any further. That's as far as it goes.
>>
>>876295
For brass? Definitely. For stainless steel? Not a chance in hell.
>>
>>876308
>For stainless steel? Not a chance in hell.
I've already been through hell. I cut up my hands from the recoil of the wire, it was ridiculous.

Anyway, do I need a centered bolt cutter, or will my slightly off center one be fine?
>>
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>>876304
For the best results you don't actually want to cut all the way through the wire, but just halfway then shear the ring off the coil by twisting it. This will give you a more square seam that will grab hair less and be less noticeable.

>>876310
This is why I always recommend against winding your own stainless.

Just get a simple pair of cutters. Compound action like you have is more trouble that it's worth in my experience. I've been using pic related for 10 years.

http://www.zoro.com/channellock-diagonal-cutters-8-in-338/i/G2136005/
>>
>>876097

Thanks. My replies are working now.

Any posts give advice on how they are welded? I just watched a video on how a gold ring was resized and welded, is it like that? Because that would be a huge pain in the ass to do thousands of times.

Can you blue your maille to prevent rust?
>>
>>868405

I'm not him but I understand your reference to a cult classic movies and you, sir, are awesome.
>>
>>867315

How well would brass maille hold up against sharks?
>>
>>876319
I've never welded mail myself, but I imagine you'd go around and arc-weld every ring. Ideally though you would have woven in solid rings as you made the piece, halving the number of rings to be welded.

There are a number of treatments you can do to prevent corrosion.

>>876322
At that size, butted? Not at all. Depending on the alloy of brass it could be anywhere from marginally effective to absolute trash, assuming it's made in the correct size and welded, and treated against tarnishing. All in all I don't recommend it.
>>
>>876337

I didn't know you could get solid metal rings :/

That's actually very cool, it would halve the time it takes to make a coat.

What about the other half? Will it look strange making half the shirt from wire?

Can you heat treat wire maille to make it stronger?

Are riveted maille rings stronger than welded? I thought welds were stronger bonds. The German battleship Tirpitz was welded instead of riveted to save weight for more armor, and because the connection was stronger.
>>
>>876516
A friend of mine actually just finished a shirt with a mix of solid and wire rings. In his case he chose flattened solid rings to present more of a contrast against the wire rings, but you could probably find solid rings that look similar to the wire.

You can presumably temper mail to make it stronger although I've never done it.

The riveted question is kind of tough, because a weld will generally be stronger than a rivet, however riveted rings are also flattened in such a way that they resist opening more than a round-wire, welded ring would. If you flattened and then welded the rings it would be stronger for sure, but comparing flattened, riveted rings to unflattened, welded rings does not yield a definite winner as far as I know.
>>
I used 8 inch bolt cutters, and yeah I used a power drill/2x4 rig, wore a thick leather glove and kept it way the fuck away from where the wire met the rod. Worked pretty well, only had the wire whiplash me twice while making 15,000 rings.
Galvinized steel, .08in thick and 5/16 diameter.

Anyone have good tips for the arm pits? A year later and I still can't come up with a decent way to close them that doesn't grind against my armpit/bicep/side.
>>
>>863066
Oh shit not this thread again
jesus fucking christ theres one of these threads every fucking week lately
>>
>>876686
Hide the thread if you don't like it, autismo
>>
>>876686
>every fucking week lately
The thread's been up for four weeks. So, yeah, you would see it every week.
>>
>>876685

This guy made his own shirt. I think he gives some advice in this video but it's mostly a history lesson. Also, wear something under it.

http://youtu.be/RssIl2v0C1k
http://youtu.be/lahyhBeBsys
http://youtu.be/n-syLrpHt8w

I know it's three links but all together it's less than ten minutes.

There was a video I saw that gave explicit advice about it... just youtube search it.
>>
>>876685

It was the first video in >>876938, I went ahead and tracked it down.


Here's a link to his site where he EXPLICITLY covers armpits :3

http://www.lloydianaspects.co.uk/armour/mail/mailpits.html

Yayyyy I'm a helper!! :D

Here's the main page, there are 4 links under "It all sounds top. How do I make some" and that should cover everything. As you can see in his video, his shirt fits quite nicely.
>>
>>876685
I built my own chainmail armor a few years ago, 14 gauge galvanized steel fencing wire, sleeves reaching down to the wrists and the bottom going past my knees. If I recall correctly, the easiest way to do the armpits is to turn it inside out and connect them up that way.

But this may not be accurate. My design was such that connecting the sleeves with the vest area at the shoulders was the part where I needed to innovate.

>>876946
The way this guy does it seems to be different from how I've done it. You notice that the lines, the "chains" of the arm and the chest are parallel. I don't like this method. There are two ways of orienting chainmail, either in the method I used where the weight of the armor actually pulls it closer together, looking much neater, tighter, etc, and where the weight pulls the rings apart. The way he does it, when the arms are at the sides the mail on the arms is being pulled apart by the weight, does not look very good.

A better method is to continue the "chains" up through the arms, making the armpit and arms just an extension of the torso area. Then the issue is how to connect the shoulder parts together, which isn't so difficult.

But then again all this is dependent upon the lengths you are using for the mail. If it terminates just past the shoulder, the orientation of the chains shouldn't be a big deal aesthetically or practically.
>>
>>876685
You're going to want to make a gusset. Basically you'll build a triangular piece up from the the barrel section of your shirt where the armpits will be, then join this triangular patch to the sleeves with 45° seams.
>>
Most of this isn't mail. It's just rings put together.
>>
>>877074

He covered both orientations and what we said and showed was that with one orientation, the chains are all equally spaced but with the other they are not equally spaced and you get areas with less coverage and areas with more coverage, and the vast majority of people probably aren't skilled enough to put restrictions in the right places.
>>
>>877234
I don't think you know what you'e talking about.
>>
>>863066
Go to the Post Office, buy some stamps. Go to Home Depot, buy some chain. Attach stamps to chain, put in mailbox.
>>
>>877298
Oh, I guess I didn't do enough browsing the site, then. My baddies.
>>
How hard is it to bend a metal dowel rod? I bought a brass one to go with my brass wire.

I've got everything else to make a half decent spring machine. Two 1m planks should be more than plenty in case I really mess up, and I've got nails, a drill and all the rest of it.

I'm not sure about the drill, though. Despite being called a variable speed drill, all the the speeds are pretty quick, and the trigger doesn't allow for any sort of reliable control over the speed.
>>
>>877328

No, I think most of this is just rings put together. Actual mail is riveted and sturdy. If you get slashed or stabbed with any of this you're signing out.

Why make something if you're not going to do it right? Also, "maille." Come on...
>>
>>877393
>If you get slashed or stabbed with any of this you're signing out.
You don't know what you're talking about.
>>
>>877434
>>877393
Well, granted, the guy with the really good looking brass suit is probably fucked, because it's brass.

But even unriveted mail will withstand a slash or even a stab. That's why it was occasionally used historically. Repeated, frenzied attacks? Not for long. Of course, riveted is better and preferable. That doesn't make unriveted "wrong".

Fuck, why don't you actually make something before you come here and tell us our business?
>>
>>877393
Because the function of an object isn't always what you want it to be.

As we no longer really need this kind of stuff as armor, it's function has moved to aesthetic (and if you want "good" armor mail, then you'd want welded, not riveted).

>inb4 there's no such thing as ceremonial armor
>>
>>877393
>it's not mail if it's not riveted
Okay, retard.

>it's not woodworking if you don't use screws
>it's not lapidary if you don't carve gemstones
>it's not cooking if you don't serve meat

>>877437
Actually butted mail was almost never used in combat because it doesn't hold up at all compared to riveted. The brass shirt isn't useless as armor because it's brass, but because it's not riveted or welded.

I actually had a swordsmith take a swing at >>869134 at a renfaire a while back and he destroyed it. 14 swg stainless steel, 5/16", butted.
>>
>>877450
>Actually butted mail was almost never used in combat
No, it wasn't uncommon. Riveting takes a long time, after all. As an example, the Japanese used butted and twisted links in combat.

>The brass shirt isn't useless as armor because it's brass, but because it's not riveted or welded.
Butted links aren't strong, but they aren't made out of paper. If that guy's stabbed hard in that, there's a good chance the brass will break rather than the links, if not both. Brass is soft.

>and he destroyed it.
I find that hard to believe. What was your methodology? Did you hold it out taut for him to slash? That's what it sounds like happened.
>>
>>877458
>No, it wasn't uncommon. Riveting takes a long time, after all. As an example, the Japanese used butted and twisted links in combat.
I meant European mail, mostly.

>Butted links aren't strong, but they aren't made out of paper. If that guy's stabbed hard in that, there's a good chance the brass will break rather than the links, if not both. Brass is soft.
I made that shirt and while it might be good in a knife fight, a sword can easily generate enough power to wreck it.

>I find that hard to believe. What was your methodology? Did you hold it out taut for him to slash? That's what it sounds like happened.
Placed on a wooden platform and stabbed: went right through, cutting through several rings and bending many more out of place.
Placed on wooden log and slashed: sent many rings flying and left a sizable hole.

>did you hold it out taught for him to slash
God no. That's a great way to lose all my fingers.

To be fair the sword he used is advertised as being able to cut a dishwasher into many pieces without losing very much of its edge, so a lower-quality weapon would probably be less effective.
>>
>>877366

It was in the first video link. Those are a good watch, the other two links are basically he started recording again immediately after he stopped because he's a little absent minded lol I guess he doesn't script his videos :)

>>877458

Brass is softer than steel but it's still not soft. It would still protect you much better than no armor.
>>
>>877458
>No, it wasn't uncommon. Riveting takes a long time, after all. As an example, the Japanese used butted and twisted links in combat.

As a professional historian, I have handled mail from, at a rough guess, roman and viking, medieval and early renaissance eras, in at least a dozen museums. I've studied other samples through cases in 20-30 other museums, as well as that I've actually had my hands on. The stuff I've held and studied under magnifying glasess includes about a dozen sections of roman era stuff, (often as small as 5mm internal diameter), full shirts with Nuremberg armoury marked rings, etc.

Of those of western origin, not one single example consisted of butted links.

the only example of that in european mail I know is 16th century, from the Mary Rose, where a surviving shirt contained riveted links, and a small number of links made from wire, twisted shut - most likely field repairs.
>>
>>877586
>Brass is softer than steel but it's still not soft. It would still protect you much better than no armor.
Actually that particular brass shirt contains two different alloys of brass since my supplier changed their stock on me. The first alloy, used for the upper torso area, is quite strong and was probably comparable to galvanized steel with a great deal more springback. The second alloy is almost identical to copper in every respect except corrosion. This alloy was used for the sleeves and lower torso. If the whole shirt had been made form the first alloy I'd be a lot more confident in its protective potential.
>>
>>877464
>To be fair the sword he used is advertised as being able to cut a dishwasher
So, it cuts cleanly?
>>
My uncentered 8" bolt cutter didn't cut it. It cut a piece of brass wire, albeit with me twisting it off, but couldn't handle the coil at all. It went all irregular and moved out of shape whenever I applied force.

>>876315
>http://www.zoro.com/channellock-diagonal-cutters-8-in-338/i/G2136005/
I'll buy that as soon as I can find a UK supplier and I get my pay.
>>
>>863210
This probably won't help but could you tell me where you got your wire from? I'm also in the UK, and most of the good providers are based outside. If you could tell me where you got your wire I could have a think about what I cut mine with...
>>
>>863226
How did the average wealth of an armoured soldier change over time? I was reading Joan of arc testimony and she was practically a millionaire with a full stable, several sets of armour and weapons. But she downplayed it heavily, saying that it was just standard, every professional knight had several war horses, backup armour ect.

Did they ever sell their shit when they retired and live comfortably on that?
>>
>>877730
>dishwasher
So... Aluminium sheet? I can tear that with my bare hands.
>>
>>865483
I made a few yards of chainmail with soda can tabs. I just wandered my campus around 5pm when it was nearly deserted and poached tabs from the recycling bins. Take can out, remove tab, put can back. Janitors saw me and never cared, assumed it was for an art thing.

UCF has 60k students, like 500 bins. It took me a a few hours for a week to get a paper-bag's worth.
>>
>>879961
I get mine off of ebay, and I'm going to continue to do so until I find a hardware store.
>>
>>879982
My understanding is that as the medieval age went on armour and great became more and more specialised (duh). While för example a horse would at all times be expensive it got much more so during the latter middle ages when the full heavy armours would more or less require specially bread horses whose cost would be comparable to the most expensive of cars today or even more.
>>
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>>876224
...My question was simply ignored... Oh bother...
>>
>>881411
>I can post a picture later, but just from the information available, what would you recommend?
I have no idea what you're trying to describe as there are many possibly problems that can arise from sleeves. Post a picture.
>>
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>>876224
>>881457
Aright, I finally got around to getting some pictures taken. I'll post the other two next.
>>
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>>881841
>>
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>>881845
I apologize for the poor quality of this one, and as for the size, I had to crop them so that they fit the file size requirements.
>>
Also, another side note. I've removed the start of the sleeves, which were about two units wide and went around the entire circumference of the arm-hole. This is apparent in the photos.
>>
>>881841
>>881845
>>881849
It looks like you're staring your contractions too close to your body. That's building a lot of tension and reducing your mobility because it's basically just pulling the sleeve downward. I'd recommend just building the sleeve straight out from the body without any contractions. I know you're trying to match the contour of your shoulder but that also reduces the range of motion in the other direction.
>>
>>881895
The sleeve has no contractions it it yet. In fact there isn't a sleeve there. That's just how far down the shoulder hangs, and I want to know why, and how to fix it. Give me a second and I'll try to draw a slight diagram thing...
>>
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>>882222
Nice, I got quads. Anyway, here is my diagram.

I tried.
>>
>>882222
The contractions at the shoulder I mean. You're tapering in the piece so that you cover your shoulders while also not being too baggy around your torso, but putting the contractions there does not just shrink the width of the area. It also causes everything beyond those contractions to pull downward. Every time you contract a row the next column will be lower. This is why it's digging into your arm when you raise it; because you've built the area to tend downward.
>>
>>882233
Also don't worry about the baggy arm hole. You'll want a little slack to work with while building the gusset for the sleeve.
>>
>>882405
Alright... If I understood correctly, the expansion/contraction at the shoulder needs to moved/removed. Right?

And, If so, is there a way I can keep the expansions in the back for the full arm for any "front-to-back", "arm-crossing" moment involving the shoulder blades?
>>
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>>882432
I'm not sure about your design specifically as I've only ever freehanded my own shirts. I normally start with the head hole then build the torso, then add the sleeves. If I need extra room in the back I add a few columns to the back of the head hole or build expansions near there. Look at button-down shirts: that little folded area between the shoulder blades is basically an expansion. Instead of expanding near the arms where you'll pull the weave downward, expand in the area where you need the space, in the middle.

The ring size you've chosen will give you plenty of leeway in sizing as long as you don't try to make the piece form-fitting. That's, what, 16g 5/16? The AR looks to be around 5 - 5.5 anyway. This shirt >>867315 was made with no expansions or contractions, and with freeform sleeves at AR=5.6.

>the expansion/contraction at the shoulder needs to moved/removed. Right?
Right. I wouldn't recommend articulating joints like that unless they only bend in one direction such as elbows or fingers.
>>
>>882436
Alright, I'll give it a shot. Thank you kindly good sir or madam.
>>
There was a guy from the uni's LARP society who tried to tell me that greathelms weren't around in the 12th century. For some reason, he kept telling me they were a 14th century only item of armor. And he looked like a Jesus cosplayer.

Anyway, I bought a KNIPEX cobolt bolt cutter. Will that be good enough for cutting 2mm brass and galvanised steel wire springs?
>>
>>882599
>Anyway, I bought a KNIPEX cobolt bolt cutter. Will that be good enough for cutting 2mm brass and galvanised steel wire springs?
It will certainly be able to cut through that, yes.
>>
>>882822
For some reason it hasn't arrived in the mail, though. It's been ten days!

This is ridiculous. I just want to make mail.
>>
>>884388
>complaining after 10 days
took 3 months for my wire to arrive here in Australia.
>>
>>884396
I feel sorry for Australian post men. In addition to the threat of being attacked by some chav's fighting dog, there's the threat of roos, spiders, snakes, crocodiles, Steve Irwin's ghost and god knows what else.

My cutter arrived, and holy shit, it cuts brass like soft toffee. I made my first 4 in 1 link. I can't seem to make a hole in my brass rod, though. I tried using the drill, but it skirted around it, as did my dremel.

I've made and cut another spring manually, but I think the jig is obviously ideal for this. Should I just buy a wooden rod, instead?
>>
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>>884786
pic

I made this with my bare hands, occasionally using the pliers to try and make some of the worse rings more circular.

I wound the wire manually around the rod, which wasn't a good idea. I assume it's slower than using a drill set up, the first thing I noticed was how the "spring" sort of telephone cable stretched out, making the rings slightly larger than if I had made a drill set up and made the coil much more coily.

The cutter is really good. Superior German engineering cutting British wire. Oh dear.
>>
>>884786
>I can't seem to make a hole in my brass rod, though. I tried using the drill, but it skirted around it, as did my dremel.
Drill press. Surely you know someone who knows someone who has one.
>Should I just buy a wooden rod, instead?
Absolutely not. You'll destroy the rod after one coil and that's assuming the wire won't dig into the rod and get stuck.

Depending on your choice of wire it's possible to use a power drill to coil, however it can be very dangerous. It's good for wire gauges below 16 swg and for softer metals like aluminum, mild steel, copper, and brass. Do not use a drill for stainless steel or titanium.

>>884845
I coiled that way for several years before getting a proper jig, and eventually you learn how to keep the coil tight without it stretching out. It's a decent method if you only need a handful of rings but it'll give you carpel tunnel very quickly if you're not careful. I only do it now for abnormal ring sizes for which I don't have a drilled rod. Pic related: I used one of those fat Crayola markers to make these rings because of their perfect structural AR.

I'd also recommend a smaller ring size for that size wire if you're weaving European 4-1.
>>
>>884786
>I can't seem to make a hole in my brass rod, though. I tried using the drill, but it skirted around it, as did my dremel.
Us e a hacksaw to cut a slot into the non-crank end such that you can still put wire into it when the rod is inside the jig. Like a 1.25" slot if 1" of the rod sits in the frame.
>>
>>885045
>Drill press. Surely you know someone who knows someone who has one.
I have no friends in this city. That's why I tried the dremel out of desperation.

>I'd also recommend a smaller ring size for that size wire if you're weaving European 4-1.
How much smaller would you recommend? That's 2mm brass wire.

>>885047
I'll try that.
>>
>>885147
>How much smaller would you recommend? That's 2mm brass wire.

This chart will give you an idea of what aspect ratio you'll get for a number of different rod diameters and wire sizes >>870221

Your actual sizes will vary depending on the material you choose because of springback. Stainless steel rings will be larger than copper rings when coiled on the same rod, for example, but for almost every application that chart will get you close enough.

For E4-1 the ideal AR is around 4.0, with 3.1 being the absolute minimum. For 2mm wire AR=4 is 8mm. Your rings look about 12mm (AR=6) which is more appropriate for Persian weaves or something else that requires more space between rings. That being said larger ARs can be used for costume purposes to reduce work time and weight, however for larger pieces the weight of the piece is more likely to bend the rings out of place if the AR is higher. If you're making a shirt out of that brass at AR=6 I can promise you will lose many rings over time.
>>
>>885401
>Your rings look about 12mm (AR=6)
They're all different sizes!

Granted, they're all around 12mm. Some of them are larger, and some are smaller.
>>
>>885910
>>885401
The perfectly circular rings are 11-12mm. The distorted ones are god knows what.
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