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>thing only half works >open up thing >degraded wire

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Thread images: 10

File: Copper_wire.jpg (77KB, 500x300px) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
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>thing only half works
>open up thing
>degraded wire insulation degraded causing short circuit
>cut off half an inch of wire, strip, and re-insert
>thing doesn't work at all now

What the fuck?
>>
>wire core is cracked
>it intermittently connects completing circuit
>you fuck with it
>the gap is now too wide for it to connect
Just replace the wire anon.
>>
>>1238419
The wire is still very much live, I felt it myself.
>>
The high impedance connection was the only thing saving some poor damaged component hanging on for dear life to receive a full current pounding that pushed it over the edge into fucked-ups-ville?
Or alternatively it could be literally anything. Any anons have a crystal ball handy?
>>
>>1238419
>>wire core is cracked

ITT: things that have never happened.
>>
>>1238418
you broke the thing
>>
>>1238445
>multicore
No
>single core
All the time when there is vibration.

t. electrician of 15 years
>>
>>1238448
>>single core
>All the time when there is vibration.

You have to be mentally retarded to use solid wire in a situation where the wire has to flex.

You might as well talk about wire failure where someone used copper wire to pull an engine out of a car.
>>
>>1238448
>>1238455
The wire doesn't flex once in place.
This is a gate motor unit, so vibration is almost non-existent.
>>
>>1238448
>>multicore
>No
it's actually yes
>>
>>1238462
>This is a gate motor unit, so vibration is almost non-existent.
You sure about that? If it's rack and pinion design they actually vibrate a lot under load.

>>1238455
What trade are you and and how long? It only takes ~5 years to lose all hope of other people being rational competent human beings.

>>1238491
Depends on the number of cores, 6 core house wire isn't up to the job but fine multi-core lasts a fucking long time, it's what we use to wire rock crushers.
>>
>>1238494
>You sure about that? If it's rack and pinion design they actually vibrate a lot under load.
It is, but I don't think the core broke.
I buzzed myself touching the plastic connector where the power wire connects with the actual unit, so it's very much live.
>>
>>1238496
>>1238494
fyi, the power wire is the wire I shortened (two wires, actually).
>>
>>1238494
>Depends on the number of cores, 6 core house wire isn't up to the job but fine multi-core lasts a fucking long time, it's what we use to wire rock crushers.
really depends on details. small bending radius and repeated heating during operation? will fail after a couple of years, but better than solid core of course
>>
>>1238494
>>1238496
>>1238499
Also, there's a green light glowing on one of the circuit boards, so obviously it's receiving power from the power wires I cut.
>>
>>1238499
Post pics if you can, it might help get her going again.
>>
>>1238511
I will, give me a few minutes.
>>
>>1238455
>You have to be mentally retarded to use solid wire in a situation where the wire has to flex.
Or Chinese.
>>
>>1238455
>>1238528
heh. reminds me of a homeowner who pulled romex through conduit
>>
>>1238530
Is that an issue under US regulations? Here in Australia there is nothing wrong with running TPS (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermoplastic-sheathed_cable) in conduit.
>>
>>1238511
I'll start with a more helpful description:

Three ways to open the gate:
1) remote control clickers
2) numpad on pillar
3) button on unit in the kitchen

The gate shut down the main fuse of the house a couple of times, then the remote stopped working.
Pillar numpad and unit in kitchen still worked.

Yesterday I opened up the motor, saw the degraded wires (with sparks), and shortened them (no more sparks).
And the reward for my efforts was that the pillar numpad and unit in kitchen also suddenly stopped working.
>>
File: front.png (1MB, 1097x973px) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
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This is the front of the motor, with the "motherboard".

The arrow shows the black and blue power wires that I shortened.

Circled at the top right are two wires that lead nowhere.
>>
>>1238536
im not sure but it was a clusterfuck.
opened up a LB fitting and its instantly loaded to the brim with shit
>>
>>1238540
Sounds like it might have a extra low voltage control circuit that goes to the pillar and kitchen, if this has been mains you have probably let the smoke out of the micro-controllers.

>>1238542
Well shit, that is about 10 times more complicated than it needs to be. I would just sniff for smoke and look for burn marks on any boards.

If you are serious about this I could help design a replacement that is a whole lot simpler than that.
>>
File: top.png (931KB, 825x655px) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
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This is the top.

Circled in red (bottom right) are the same two loose wires. Not sure what they do.

Circled in blue (top left) is another large, loose wire coming from the little box that is only attached by wires.

These were all loose when I opened the unit, and seem to have been cut cleanly.
>>
File: left.png (1MB, 613x955px) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
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This is from the left.
>>
File: right.png (1MB, 655x841px) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
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From the right.
>>
File: back.png (2MB, 1267x887px) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
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From the back.

That's all the pics I took.
>>
>>1238549
>that is about 10 times more complicated than it needs to be
I got that impression too.
Find it hard to believe that this is just for the gate. Maybe some of that shit is for the camera/phone unit in the kitchen too.

>If you are serious about this I could help design a replacement that is a whole lot simpler than that.
I'm hoping this is just a wire somewhere.
The electrician is coming later this week, and if I don't like his price quote I'll look into other options.

Meanwhile, I want to see if there's a simple solution (which there should be).
>>
>>1238550
>>1238551
>>1238553
>>1238554
Not going to lie anon, there is a whole lot more going on it there than I expected.
If you are comfy working with mains make sure there isn't a transformer between that and the motor and if not connect directly to the motor. If she runs stage 1 of problem finding is done.

From there I would probably look at replacing the keypad with a mains key switch and running a pair to the kitchen through the existing conduit for a switch there.,you can get cheap IR remote switches from ebay.

Combining these you can now run the gate from the car, the gate and the kitchen but remember to keep the limit switches in circuit with simple relay logic.
>>
>>1238558
Disregard, I'm an idiot.
Because it can run in both directions it has to be a DC motor meaning there must be a rectifier in there somewhere.
>>
File: 569456845.jpg (76KB, 500x500px) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
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OP i think the big black loose wire is an antenna
>>
>>1238581
>Because it can run in both directions it has to be a DC
what makes you think that?
>>
>>1238585
The only way to change the direction a single phase AC motor rotates is to re-wind it. If you need a motor to run both directions it has to be 3 phase or DC and given the size and application I seriously doubt that is a 3 phase motor.
>>
>>1238584
Yeah, I thought as much.

I just pointed out the loose wires because that's literally the only thing I can think of. But I was always pretty sure they have nothing to do with the issue.
>>
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>>1238587
u sure?

3 motor wires check
big beefy cap check
i think we got a mach here
>>
>>1238589
wtf did i just wrote
>>
>>1238589
You are right, that catch with years in a trade is you get great at what you do often but forget all the shit from tradeschool you did years ago.
I have been doing heavy industrial so long I forgot single phase induction motors can be reversed.

https://youtu.be/__nS3OelY-s
>>
I did bend those bland and blue wires a bit when I cut them short, so I'll go buy new ones and try that.
>>
>>1238594
>bland and blue wires
*black and blue wires

Also, I know I didn't swap their positions, but what would be the consequences if I did?
>>
>>1238595
Would there be a circuit breaker on that motherboard somewhere in case I did switch the wires?
>>
OP, does the Reciever still work?
That thing gets his orders almost sure from the receiver box i posted.
that thing contains a relay that should make a quite but audible click every time you try to open or close the gate.

Get that remote, push the button and listen for a click. If you cant hear it, chances are you fried the receiver
>>
>>1238600
I'll get the new wires in (have to take them out of a bundled one first), then I'll be able to rule out those at least.

Get back to you in 30 mins.

Also, the remote switches haven't worked in two weeks, but the keypad and kitchen unit always kept working. Until I took the degraded bits off those wires at least.
>>
>>1238600
So I put in the new wires, and still nothing.
No click from the receiver box either.
But even if the receiver were fried, that happened a few weeks ago.
>>
if you could trace out the relay leads for COM, NO and NC you could do a manual override by connection COM with either NO or NC, which should tell the controller to either open or close the gate. If that doesn't work, you're controller is fucked.

attention has to be paid, 2 out of the 5 leads on that thing are mains.
>>
>>1238671
There's literally a closed button the MOBO.


Let's start here: What is the model number for this unit?
>>
>>1238551
Holy fuck what a wiring mess

t. Low voltage guy
>>
File: label.png (194KB, 380x269px) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
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>>1238671
>if you could trace out the relay leads for COM, NO and NC you could do a manual override by connection COM with either NO or NC
I'm thinking this is a little too advanced for me.
I'd need someone almost literally holding my hand to do something like this.

>>1238984
>What is the model number for this unit?
Pic is the label on the unit.
>>
>>1239156
>BK-1800

Perfect. The BK line is common, so after work I'll look through the manual and see what I can dig up.
>>
>>1239189
Thanks a bundle!
>>
Thought an actual connection was a short circuit?
>>
>>1238536
It's not, but it looks ugly as fuck and clogs up the conduit with a lot of unnecessary cable jacketing
>>
>>1238530
which is a great way of futureproofing because you can just pull new cable through conduit rather than ripping it out and making a mess.
>>
>>1239303
You have to pull out the old times and replace it with new. It's also a real son of a bitch to pull

T. Dumbass homeowner that tied it once and replaced it with the right fucking wire.
>>
>>1238455
>You have to be mentally retarded to use solid wire in a situation where the wire has to flex.
ethernet cabling is single core

and its SHIT
>>
>>1239432
inb4 chimpout its got 8 strands but each strand is one core and it's an 8 pin connector so its basically just 8 single core lines.

and its SHIT
>>
>>1239432
?
boxes for structured cabling are usually single core true however stranded is also available which is exactly what any relatively decent patch cable is made from.
>>
>>1239435
i have never seen multi stranded ethernet cable and they always break near the connectors when laptops as desk workstations are involved
>>
>>1239433
>it's shit
Uh, care to elaborate? I never have any problems, and wonder what I should watch out for
>>
>>1239439
single core connectors tend to fail all at once

a braided one, if one strand breaks, big whoop, its probably even still touching the other strands and still making connection

a single core wire will just break entirely and probably lose contact at some angles, if not jiggle around in its jacket and lose contact entirely forever until you splice it

also for home wiring and such where you have actual power loads, theres heat and induction considerations to using stranded versus twisted pair versus braided/stranded cable but basically single strand is almost always shit compared to at least a twisted pair of single insulated strands

all that said its not actually that big an issue but its annoying when it comes up
>>
>>1239438
Maybe you should stop diying patch cables out of solid wire, and buy a stranded patch cable.

This is a problem you have because your shop is doing it wrong.

There are at least three people just veered into this thread because we can't understand how you could be having problems with twisted pair cabling.
>>
>>1239444
>Maybe you should stop diying patch cables out of solid wire,
its what the school and my job give me what few times it comes up
>>
>>1239446
Well that's not what should be used. Like you have experienced, it's usually fine but will fatigue and break if the user actually plugs and unplugs every day.

This is why patch cables for users rare stranded. From the patch panel to the jack is solid. Even going from the router to the patch panel is probably fine with solid because its not going to move more than once or twice before being replaced.

Users are dumb and twist up their cables in a tight bunch and roll over to with their chair every day so you gove them the tougher, more expensive stranded shit.

Or you don't and you have to do a repair every couple months, easy make work and they will blame themselves.

Just wanted to clarify for you its not your cable being bad at what it's designed for. It's solid core because it is better to wrap around wire posts, crimp in rj45j and punch down in 66 or 110 blocks.
>>
TIL: There's such a thing as non-stranded ethernet cable.
>>
>>1239471
Want me to really blow your mind? You can get hundreds of pair of cat5e/cat6 in one cable if you have a major cable supplier.
25/50 pair is easily available to consumers even.

The moral is there's all kinds of cable. If you just thought you wanted a new type of cable that never existed before, someone will make it for you.
>>
>>1239446
>its what the school and my job give me
what the fuck is your job that they pay you to make up patch cables for users? I have guys who can terminate at basically warp speed but they don't because its not economical to pay them to do it vs buying a machine crimped booted cable in, especially because it will last longer with the strain relief.

>>1239451
>tougher, more expensive stranded shit.
its not any more expensive for the raw components, cable or plugs because plugs are made for either type.

checking my suppliers now none of the patch cables offered are solid, they are all stranded.

example:Each Cat5e lead consists of 4 colour coded pairs. The PVC outer sheath and the stranded cores results in a high flexible and resilient cable.
>>
>>1238589
Ge has an ac dishwasher pump motor that has 2 wires coming out (other than ground) has a large (relative to dishwasher pump size) capacitor, and reverses direction to drain despite being on 110 ac... always wondered how they did that. Thanks
>>
https://www.manualslib.com/manual/857164/Came-Bk-800.html?page=8#manual

Good info starts on page 8
>>
>>1239518
Okay


>Holding the open/close button on the motherboard should open/close the gate
>Jumping pins 2 and 7 SHOULD open/close the gate

Let's start here. This will rule out a faulty control unit.
>>
>>1239518
>>1239531
Flip dip 15 to ON. Sorry, forgot about that
>>
>>1239531
>>1239518
>>1239532
Scratch that, this just sets the limit switched. Jump pin 2 and 7 and report back before I get ahead of myself
>>
>>1238418
Anon, is this a hot-tub? If so just list it on Craiglist in the free section with all of your peers.
>>
>>1239518
>>1239532
>>1239534
So I tried pushing those "open" and "close" buttons on the motherboard, and that red LED starts blinking like it should, but nothing happens with the gate.
How can this fucking thing be so majorly fucked after I FIXED degraded wiring?
>>
>>1239657
Nothing should have happened with the gate because those are the limit switches. I misunderstood what the manual meant by "manually open the gate by pushing CH1/Open".
>>
>>1239721
I think those buttons are literally supposed to open and close the gate though.
>>
>>1239740
No, they aren't. Jumping pin 2 and 7 is literally supposed to open and close the gate. Those buttons are for setting the open/close limits. Now in order for your gate to open and close properly you need to

>Flip DIP 15 to on
>Manually open the gate
>Press open
>Manually close the gate
>Press close
>Set DIP 15 to off
Thread posts: 76
Thread images: 10


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