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Good trades

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Alright I'm making this thread in /diy/ because you're all tradies with your heads screwed on and /adv/ is full of little kiddles.

So I failed university, I've got experience as a builders labourer but that's it, now I'm looking for a job, a career, something with a good progression for ambition, hands on, technical, construction something like that and good paid of course. That doesn't require a 4 year apprenticeship preferably because that leaves me at a late age to start earning the good money, in a growing industry, I'm sure there's something super obscure out there that I've not heard of and you're the kind of guys that know it. Have a few ideas already, but interested in hearing.

Thx
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>>1235013
>So I failed university
Okay.

>now I'm looking for a... career.
Uhh.

>construction
Warning, warning.

>and good paid of course
Danger!

>doesn't require a 4 year apprenticeship
ABORT ABORT

Haha, yeah, nah. Construction is feast or famine. You can work solidly for several years and then not be able to get a job at all for months or even years at a time. Also, you are broken down and useless by the time you are 50. Unless you put away for retirement or somehow transition into the business side (which you said you don't want), you end up working in a Lowes making $8.50 until the day you die because social security doesn't cover shit (and was never meant to).

All the other semi-skills technical stuff either does the same shit (breaks you down by your 50's) or is a prime target for automation. You might get 10 or even 20 years out of it but the robots are coming to my friend. Any job that doesn't require a degree and pays well is on the chopping block.
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>>1235013
if you have no soul, you can work in HVAC and lie to the customer to get whole units replaced for commision. i watched a kid make 130k this way.
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>>1235163

Thanks for that, cheered me up.

>>1235212

What's the way into HVAC? Got any idea for the UK side of things?
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>>1235212
>HVAC
Don't you need university for that?
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Not to hijack the thread for myself but I'm a 22 y/o that doesn't know what to study in for university, is being an electrician a good idea?
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I assume you're in the states. If not, just ignore me.

I got into a steel mill via a temp agency, making $12/hr. Two and a half years later, I'm operating plasma tables at $18.50/hr. They're buying and setting up automated lasers in edition, so there's another blue collar position to chase. Laser ops should make about $23/hr.
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>>1235479

Yeah I'm in the UK. No steel here unfortunately. Good for you though.
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>>1235478
Yeah I'd say being an electrician is a good choice, can usually take about 2 years to get an apprenticeship and start out making at least $15/hr and there's always going to be a need for electricians
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>>1235013
Window setting is obscure, can walk in and start apprenticeship with out school, wont be automated any time soon. You will hump glass up stairs for a year though.
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>>1235606

Alright will give it a lookup, seen an advert for Everest Window Fitters, wonder if it's worth lying on my CV if anyone will notice....
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>>1235611
that's never worth it. Be reliable, that's what they want most
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>>1235871
Listen to this guy. As I say, you cant even do a shitty job if you arent actually there. I would take dumb and reliable over experienced and not.
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>>1235911

Well obviously I'm reliable. Just wondering, job says 1 years experience in window fitting, wonder if I can just make that up and apply, I can't imagine window fitting is so hard.
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NDE inspection. You would start as an assistant to a technician and be constantly learning. Unknown and lucrative if you show up and learn...
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>>1235914
>NDE inspection

Yeah I was looking at NDI, seems like good money. Is it the kind of job where you go and do a training course ( what's the best kind of NDI to do btw? Ultrasonic? X-ray? etc etc btw? ) and then you can start applying to jobs, is that a good shout? Noticed a lot with rope access and offshore, which means even better money. Sounds good to me. Tell me what you know plz :)
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>>1235912
>1 years experience in window fitting, wonder if I can just make that up and apply, I can't imagine window fitting is so hard.

good lord.

go for it anon. I just wish you would video the 15 minutes before they kick your ass off the job site.
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Help me out guys.

Recently I finish a pre-apprenticeship and got a job as carpenter. However, I suck, the work pace is completely different than the previous worksites I'm slow and make cuts off sometimes.

Plus other workers are mean sometimes, but that's me least concern.

I'm afraid that if I keep messing things up I'll be fired.

How can I be a better carpenter.?
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>>1235985
What anthony Robbins video
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>>1235985
>pre-apprenticeship

some guys are hateful to new employees for various reasons. ignore it as long as you can and plan on going to another employer after you have some experience. I was amazed at how the environment changed when I did that.

And years later I found myself back at the original employer, and one of the meanest haters was still there, and treated me like a prince this time around.

People suck. try to handle it the best you can. the main thing is to not let them win by getting you down.
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>>1235985
realize everyone started at the bottom.

you can't look at those around you, and think they started that way.

have confidence. being uncertain and nervous all the time will make you fuck up.

you need thick skin. you're going to get bullied or made fun of, especially when you make stupid mistakes, say something stupid, look funny etc.
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>>1235487
Isn't Sheffield a big center for steel manufacturing, or was that decades ago and I'm wildly out of date?
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>>1235013
How about a plastic surgeon. You repair doors, windows and stuff on newbuilds so they dont have to be fully replaced.

http://www.plastic-surgeon.co.uk/get-paid-to-learn-trade/
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>>1235212
Hey putting a new compressor in an old unit is just not smart, let me show you these higher S.E.E.R rated units that will cost less money a month to operate

>compressor is fine just a bad run cap
> that's when you know the soul is gone
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Went to an interview for a non union plumber position at a local business last week.

Have the second interview tomorrow, I'm a 20 year old with no experience.

What should I expect from the trade, will it be a good career if I stick to it, and what should I say in the interview?
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>>1235478
San Diego journeyman here, I make about $42 an hour
~$86,000 a year, so pretty good.
Takes 5 years to become a journeyman
This isn't even counting overtime.
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>>1236171
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Welding is what I took in tech school. I make $18/hour as a sign foreman (not welding related) but also work part time/commission in an auto fab shop and also do my own side jobs. I could move to the ports and make $25-30 a hour but I'm happy where I'm at.

Plumbing/HVAC is the best in some areas, but also seasonal/part time in other places. Here they're hours are unpredictable and they usually pick up second jobs in winter time. But when I lived in Texas demand was booming and there were 1 man HVAC Plumbing companies everywhere driving around my neighborhood in King Ranches with 24' CC boats in their drive way.

Dont know but a few electricians, but the ones I know work in maintenance at factories making in the $20s a hour range. Good money but working in a factory is miserable.
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>>1235914
What are some good schools for Non Destructive testing/inspection?
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>>1235013
I'm a red seal electrician (Canada). You can try any trade and see what you think because: you're not going into debt. It's risk free financially. I quit 2 or 3 trade jobs before I found one I liked. Hell, I didn't even last 1 pay cycle in a sheet metal shop. "Oh, you want me to lay under the shear and catch stainless that could land on my face around moving parts that could take my hands off? ya, fuck you."

HVAC also does more than enough electrical to teach you how to keep it safe in your own home. Understanding electrical is liberating. I know lots of people that really don't want to fuck with it.
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Not an amerifriend, but here's what I went with:
Went to a stick welding course 2 years back but no luck finding employment so I did some minor repairs (mostly farm equipment) with a 50$ AC welder and 6013 electrodes, earned a bit of money there.
Tried going to college, didn't like it - went back to do another course for MIG/MAG welding + 2 months of boiler-maker training + making industrial furnaces (Fröling to be exact, it was more of a quantity over quality thing but I was extremely good at it regardless of the short training), got an offer to work as a fabricator (ornamental fences, window bars, etc.) so I went there and got 5 more months under my belt. Now I'm waiting for a TIG course so I can learn how to do that as well, all the while trying to start a small smithy to make some $ on handmade ornaments for fabrication, and other small projects. In any case, if you go for welding chose TIG, it's more versatile than stick/mig, it also requires far more ability and attention to detail and has a steeper learning curve, however it doesn't produce spatter like stick/mig so your PPE can last longer (meaning you have no reason not to buy that sweet welding helmet with a built in respirator/cooling system for maximum comfy) and it generally pays better (at least in normal countries). If you like metalwork and have at least some smarts you'll soak up knowledge fast so you'll find yourself to be quite competent a short time, and it's easier doing something when you feel a sense of accomplishment and pride in yourself.
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Caroenters Aprentice here, DONT!!!! I actually have to work hard!
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>>1235985
I've noticed that when working in a small shop (less than 20 people or so) that the culture can be properly fucked. Bitter people always being threatened by other's progress. People fighting over chairs in the lunch room and smoke area. Rabid gossip. I've left jobs just because the people were like caged dogs.

That's why I prefer construction in a medium to large company. You move around a lot so one day you're working with Steve and then you don't see him again for a month, etc... If Steve's an asshole you don't have to see him much. It helps prevent stagnation.
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>>1236171
The first thing they're looking for is work ethic. Show up on time and ready to work.

Be patient. Don't try to learn everything right away, it'll distract you from focusing on what you need to learn in the short term.

The first years are closer to general laborers than anything else. You'll be lifting and carrying most of the time. Be patient.
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>>1236186
Alberta Canada Electrician here. The wages for Electrical trades vary wildly from region to region. San diego sounds like one of the highest regions.

Can you imagine making $18 an hour for what we do?

http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Electrician_Journeyman/Hourly_Rate
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>>1238744
>Caroenters Aprentice

Poor guy, it's hard to type with missing fingers.
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>>1238773
Carpenter's don't work in shops my friend. That is the key difference between woodworking and carpentry. I assume >>1235985 is non-union and working residential in which case a crew usually numbers 3-7. My advice for being a better carpenter is work hard, work efficiently, work to the tolerances of the man paying you, and like a man. If you're green, everyone knows it. Don't apologize for your mistakes, they're expected and the reason you get paid what you do. Simply correct your mistake as quickly as possible and don't make the same mistake twice. Always be learning, improving your skills and knowledge. Keep the boozing to a manageable level, and save the hard drugs for the weekend.
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How do apprenticeships even work? Do you sign up through a union, or a school or something?
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$36 an hour. Ground equipment mechanic at UPS. Only need five years maintenance experience. No drug testing (except suspicion on the job or an accident). Free Healthcare for you and your family. Union.

I'm 30 yo with a GED. My wife stays home to raise our children. It's the jackpot and jobs like this exist plentifully in the US. You just have to go look for it and have self direction.
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>>1238817
Most union halls have testing. They'll announce dates of testing and some have open testing where it's all the time. I recommend researching trades in your area and just call the union hall. Be felony free. Most union halls drug test. Community colleges now have 2 year vocational programs. These usually are a great networking resource as the CC has probably set up relationships with local employers.

Honestly, the military/veteran status has been my golden ticket. I've never been turned done for a job I've applied for, but you have to prove yourself after you are given a chance.
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>>1238837
If you are drug free, Trucking has a lot of options and it pays well. The Trucking industry is hurting badly for employees.
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>>1238839
If one is looking for long term career, I would avoid most of the transportation industry. Automation is making B-Line for these jobs at brake neck speed.
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>>1238845
Many locations are begging for local drivers. UPS is paying attention $32 an hour for seasonal non-union drivers. For a 21 year old, that is fuck you money.
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>>1238846
You missed the first part of that comment. I never said there isn't money to be made in that industry. Only that if one is looking for a long career, that its not going to happen there.
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>>1238854
There is always going to be a specialty in the trucking sector. Think of the flatbedders that have to load their own trucks. Dump trucks, lime spreaders, etc.
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>>1239051
Think of the 99% of truck drivers that aren't needed anymore and now they can be the dump truck guys.
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>>1239052
You really don't understand trucking if you think that's happening any time soon.
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Ornamental Ironworker, basically a blacksmith except you mostly work on railings, gates, stairways, chandeliers, sconces, things of that nature. A lot of it is basically like carpentry, but with metal. I make $40/h even hand forging flowers, finials, and other small decorations, the metal rack at work is filled with stainless steel and bronze and it looks like silver and gold bars, shit's pretty cash.
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>>1235013
>That doesn't require a 4 year apprenticeship
That is counter to everything else you want, qualified trades are the trades that are technical and pay well.
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>>1239061
Aren't most apprenticeships 5 years anyway?
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>>1239063
The thing with the world wide web is it's global, here in Rooland they are all 4 year with some having extra 1-2 year courses for specialization.
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>>1239067
In little habitable Australia its 4, but the foreman has to sign you off. So some dumb cunts will have 7 year apprentices because they still havent learned how to mark a fucking board.
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>>1238813
Ya well around here cabinet makers are also called finish carpenters, so sue me.
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>>1239126
>cabinet makers

thats good money for US bros
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>>1238780
There's a lot of work down here
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>>1235919
This, lie in one job interview and chances are there will be a guy that knows a guy. And suddenly your ass is black balled. Good way to fuck all your chances before you even get started.
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>>1239059
Curious now (not him but family member is involved in trucking), how is replacing of truck drivers with automation not a fast-approaching event?
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>>1240651
Teamsters have their ways. Union jobs have a way of sticking around past their sell date.

Lobbying will require that self-driving trucks be manned for whatever reason. If they managed to pass a law stating that every trucker has to have a plastic tube stuck up his nose for 8 hours a day, they can do much more than that.
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>>1240647
If they are asking for '1 year experience' I can't imagine they actually expect you to be very good at it.

On the other hand, you could probably just be honest about your experience too given the same argument.
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>>1240661

You would have to change not just the trucks, but the entire infrastructure utilizing the trucks.

Write me a program that will line 5 concrete trucks up in a row, have them work in tandem with the concrete guys while the foundation is being poured, and the truck has to recognize when its said trucks turn to pull in.

Imagine a truck that makes 100 or more small deliveries in a day (bread truck/pie truck/fedex near high rises ), and has to enter a convenience store to make said deliveries. Now make this truck more efficient than it is when a person drives it and walks the delivery in. Now imagine a way to do it without completely rebuilding major cities.

The robots will take over, but it will be a slow creep.
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>>1235163
There is no way in hell we will have robots maintaining the electrical grid for at least another 50 years, even then it still probably will need plenty of human interaction and guidance because line work is so diverse.
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>>1235478
I'm biased as I'm going to be an electric lineman in a year, but consider that trade. Look for a community college with an electrical distribution system program and take a tour. There's just so much you can do with it after. 3-5 years to journey man depending where you go from what I've seen, super rewarding work.
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welding
HVAC
controls
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>>1235163
>Any job that doesn't require a degree and pays well is on the chopping block.

Lol, and tell us what your degree is in and how your particular profession can't be automated.
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>>1240689
I agree with this, but not because I believe it's too difficult for the robots to do, but I think the ROI isn't there. There are so many edge cases and little things they need to plan for that it'd be cost prohibitive to design for all the little shit you need to do. You basically need to build a human robot to start with so it will have the grip strength and leverage to do the work like grabbing a cable and securing it, then turning around to pull up a transformer or whatever you guys do.

To design purpose built machines for each task would weigh a ton, and be a ton of machines to develop. To design a general purpose machine would cost even more. If general purpose human bots were readily available... Well you still need to teach it how to be a lineman.

And really lineman do their job cheaply enough as is. It seems like it would be one of the last jobs to be automated.
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>>1240692
I have two degrees. One in Computer Information Systems and another in Computers and Networking Technology. I also have several industry certs. Mostly from CompTIA, Microsoft and the various vendors of our network devices (firewalls and switches) and our monitoring software. My job is as a computer support technician in an enterprise environment. I'd say about 50-60% of my job is talking with users and interacting with their machine remotely to solve problems. Everything from configuring networks and restoring files from backups to providing user training and cleaning up after ransomware infection. I'd say another 20% is proactively correcting issues on their machines and networks that are reported to us via our monitoring software. This is generally seamless to the user. The rest is working with actual machines directly. Setting up new workstations/servers, configuring domains, installing additional hardware, transferring files and settings between old machines and new, installing on site, etc., etc.

While there is a danger of some of my job being taken over by AI, considering the roll out of Watson was a complete and expensive failure I figure I've got time. And until enterprise environment hardware becomes completely turnkey there will always be a place for me.
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>>1240703
Your job doesn't require a degree, man. You sound pajeet tier tbqh.

Keep moving and expanding your skills
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>>1240719
Love these pajeet CIS cucks that think their job isn't available to any geeksquad kid who used a laptop before.
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>>1240722
Agreed. He is clearly shouting from the top of Mt. Stupid. I doubt this guy could even deploy a GPO let alone setup a domain controller from scratch. Not that I am much above that level. I've been doing this shit for only 3 years (not counting school) and the stuff I don't know is immense.

Setting up a server from scratch is easy as hell. Troubleshooting a Server 2008 VM that is pooping the bed is another matter. I've seen our CTO untangle a system that was almost a decade old, had been "maintained" by 3 other companies before we were called on board, and was so twisted up he almost wanted to wipe the thing and start over because it would be faster.

I know enough to know when I'm over my head but most casual fucks don't know enough to know that they don't know jack shit. The Dunning-Kruger effect writ large.
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>>1240703
>One in Computer Information Systems and another in Computers and Networking Technology.

As far as automation is concerned, you are very much in a position to be replaced by a software bot. Almost _any_ job revolving heavily around computer work is at risk, simply because software bots are far easier and (more importantly) cheaper to roll out.

The last jobs to be automated will NOT be white-collar jobs. They will be jobs that require you to physically go to the required task, and that task will need to be suitably mechanically complex with plenty of possible problems that may crop up while you're at it. In other words, the safest jobs will be those that require a human body, NOT a human mind. That's not to say it wouldn't be possible to move to another, vaguely-similar job in the same sector, but, of all things, to think an IT job is safe from outsourcing and automation is naive, bordering on comical.

Of course, "safe" is a relative term. Overcrowding of the job market from everyone else being replaced will drastically cut your pay grade, even in the most secure positions. Once automation starts to effectively make humans obsolete as a source of labor, there's going to be some drastic social change needed to distribute the wealth of the world, and, naturally, those who have it are not going to want to give it up. Whether or not it's fair that they make the income of 10,000+ average people simply for having a bunch of robots will be irrelevant to them.

Frustratingly enough, the only truly safe position is "rich asshole who owns everything". Then again, once it gets to that point, you're less in danger of losing your "job" and more in danger of having some random person shoot you 12 times in the chest because they're jealous of your money.
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