Terminal blocks vs soldering

Depends on application.

>>1232365
do you need to separate it easily? -> Terminal block
connect & forget -> solder & heat shrink

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>>1232365

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Just hit them together with a hammer and throw the hammer ina trash. Hammers are cheap and disposable these days.

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>>1232365

I think i was told by someone that for AC aplications i should never solder but use terminal blocks. Is this true?

>>1232523
Probably depends on Gage and amount of current. On aircrafts our data says there should never be any splice or connection point in any single run of aluminum wire above 4 Gage. Not sure of a specific reason though, probably has to do with eliminating all possible spots for unnecessary resistance

>>1232523
no

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wire nut master race coming through

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pic related is all you need

>>1232531
>>1232537
>i hope you are trolling tier

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>>1232544

for some things black tape is fine. for some things wire nuts are fine. this is a very vague thread. thus this is a TROOOL THREAD.

>>1232545
>for some things black tape is fine
anything its fine for use heatshrink instead
only tape something you are going to throw in the trash in a few weeks when it shrinks and leaves a gloopy shit mess
some wire nuts are ok but there are far far far far better alternatives, like spreading peanutbutter with your finger, you don't want a knife? try it sometime surprise yourself.

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>>1232557

I think you are wrong.

black tape is wonderful if you put enough layers, and maybe a cable tie so it never unwraps.

wirenuts are perfectly ok. what is this shit about peanut butter?

trolls are the beign of this board.

>>1232562
if you ever had to fix something that had been patched with tape you would understand.

wirenuts are great until you use something else and realise they aren't that great. at all.

Spring loaded screw terminal or something like >>1232467

terminal blocks and soldering are both subject to copper/tin deforming under load/temp, loosing the connection up over time but ok for low power applications

>>1232525
is it common to use aluminum wire in aircraft?

>>1232580
well it is cheaper and lighter, so maybe idk

>>1232562
Nope nope nope. I work as an electrician, and tape never holds up. They the glue never holds up, its pretty runny over time, and really shit in cold and heat. Never use it on something that is not temporary.

Wirenuts can be pretty dangerous, as they often dont sit as well as you'd think after some time.

The best is spring loaded connections, they are very stable. And screw connection if you need more clamping power, as springs aren't even in the same league when it comes to how hard they clamp.

>>1232504
>Lineman splice
Ew no. Lap splice is the best of both worlds

>>1232531
CAT mechanic. Sees wire nuts

REEEEE THIS IS NOT A HOUSE
REEEEEEE
REEEEEEEEEEEEE

we would just tangle wires through shit that went to nothing just to cover shit in wirenuts.

>>1232562
I used to think trolling was funny. Then that stupid cunt on /b posting about shit all of the time...

>>1232580
Very common because of how quickly it cools should a connection melt. Less chance of causing damage to other components. Copper is never used unless absolutely necessary.
-aircraft repair tech

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BP conector master race

>>1232947
No, a lap splice is just placing them parallel and soldering them.

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>>1233054
You are like little baby.

>>1233054
God tier. Splices, tape, wire nuts, spring loaded connectors and other shit all pales in comparison. When you tighten these things up properly, the connection is unbelievable. You could put two wires into one, grab one in each hand and pull with all your strength. The wire would snap before those things give.

>>1233252
No joke, one time on site I saw some sparky trying to join some cat6 cable he broke with 8 bp connectors.

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>>1233252

I've never seen this before. I suppose you push the wires in and tighten the screws. Anything else involved? Good ones probably cost a bit. HOLY JESUS MOTHER OF GOD 300 BUCKS USED

>>1233258
Nah m8 that's not the right ones. The one in the other guys pic are like 15 bucks a jar. But yeah, twist the wires together and tighten the fuck out of it, I cant believe anyone uses anything else.

>>1233255
Yeah I once saw a sparky take about 12 or so Cat6 wires, strip them all back and take each colour from the wires and common them all up with 8 connectors. I asked him wtf he was doing and he said

>Its data cabling mate, I know what I'm doing, you're just the security guy
>pokerface.jpg

>>1233262
>twist the wires
no thanks

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>>123326
I see them do that be shit for pots lines all the time.

Annoying as shit and I have to charge the customer $150 just to put a 66 block in so I can start troubleshooting.

>>1232497
wtf man

>>1232467
as an electrician I vote for this

>ease of use
>can remove and add wires without having to remove them all
>can combine fine stranded, stranded and solid
>visual inspection of wires inserted
>no risk of damaging wires because of no screws to over-tighten
>no risk of loose wires because of no scews to under-tighten

>>1232467

looks awesome. where can I buy them? digikey, newark don't seem to stock much or anything.

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>>1233513

>>1233520
thanks.

my newark-fu failed miserably

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>>1233262
>>1233371

>>1233576
Oh shit that's a proper poor man's ethernet hub

>>1233576
>they studied their trade for four years only to do shit like this

>>1233576
>>1233580
>>1233617
That's phone line not network line, I can tell by the pixels and having seen quite a few phone lines back in the day.

Probably only cat 3, you could maybe get 10mbps Ethernet to work over it if you really really had to.

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>>1233617
>studied their trade for four years
You are correct, sir. Most people in the trades only have about a 4th grade education. That is to say, anyone with the ability to read a book can become a tradesman so they don't bother learning any more than that. Picture related. These sold at Sears for like 75 cents. They are perfect for a tradesman; lots of pictures. I've read one. It makes the shit look simple. The only way to fuck it up is if you are drunk, retarded, or just plain incompetent.

>>1233713
can confirm, i am a retarded brainlet who can't do anything right. I once put a wood chisel in a grinder with a wood wheel turning in the opposite direction. The chisel ended up on my collar bone.

>>1233712
It's cat5, it is being used for telephone service. It was a pain in the ass to troubleshoot. There was noise on the line coming from the customers side of the demarc.

The electrician is still a monster, that's not how you handle phone or network lines

>>1232467
Seconding this. I go through 20-30 of these every day at work.

>>1233576
>collisions all up in this bitch

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>>1233961
I can't count the number of bullshit installs like that I had to deal with. I used to do fibre installs and part of it was disconnecting the old copper incoming line (usually easy) and patching from the phone port on the modem back to an existing phone jack to liven the house phone jacks with the new phone line.

I don't know how many fucking piles of spaghetti I untangled under floors where 5 generations of homeowners wanted a new phone jack in a bedroom or whatever, but they didn't want to pay someone to do it or take 30 minutes to research how to do it, Jesus Christ. One I pulled apart had 15 (not joking) wires all lumped together with an obscene amount of different connectors. One of them was the alarm which the dickhead technician decided that the panel should go into alarm as soon as it faulted on a phone line fault.

>mfw I was 40 minutes balls deep in this tiny ass mouldy underfloor rewiring this pile of shit and the fucking alarm starts screaming

REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>>1234284
Should have disconnected the sirens from the panel. Its easy as that.

>>1234285
Yeah I did. The point is I had to crawl 15-20 metres through this shitty underfloor, get my ladder from the van, take it upstairs, crawl 15 metres through a shitty tights as fuck monopitch roof to the alarm panel and THEN disconnect the sirens. Who the fuck turns the alarm on line failure option on? What a cunt.

>>1232525
The oxidation at splices and connection points for aluminum wire, causes it to heat up, and eventually cause a spectacular fire.

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>>1234284
>Alarm technician. Covad technicians
>Disconnects phone from high voltage protector, every time

>Be company tech
>Doing clec ticket for Covad
Covad tech support: I am still detecting a device on the line sir. Please remove it.
"The protector?"
Yes sir, please remove it.
"Uh. No. This is a DSL compliant protector.
Sir, I am still detecting a device on the line, please remove it.
*Hang up*

You are not getting .0001 extra kb/s for not having basic protection on the line, what the fuck, mate.

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>>1234292
Had to do this to get customer's service working again. I couldn't justify doing all the pairs onto the 66 block because I would've needed two or three blocks.

>>1234289
>alarm panel located this unavailable

is this even legal?
I thought such panels had to be located nearby an exit for the firefighters to easily stop the sirens when arriving?

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*flexing*

>>1234444
not meant for connection boxes and other small spaces.
not suitable for multiple wires

>>1232365
>Which is better for cable joins, terminal blocks or soldering?

twisting the wires onto whatever's carrying electricity
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DUJmeLcqWMg

>>1234448
is that a sparky?

>>1234448
>"if you're not holding your breath you may get electricity inside you. so if you're not breathing the electricity thinks you're dead"

and thus you won't get electrocuted..?

flawless indian logic

>>1234450
>sparky

quite literally so

>>1234424
In New Zealand there are a sum total of 0 regulations on alarm systems. Anyone can do any size system however the fuck they want. It's pretty common for an old house to have the panel above a manhole into the ceiling, they get some renovations, manhole gets moved and boom, panel is on the other side of the roof from entry point.

>>1232365
Depend on whether you'd like it to be practical or stupid.
Practical: Terminal blocks
Stupid: Anything else

>>1234570
Expensive but great: Something like wago connectors

>>1234448
no connectors needed. You know you have a good connection when it welds together.

>>1232525
Probably because a splice on wire thicker than 4ga would be ridiculously large and cumbersome.

>>1234629
Can aluminium weld with copper or steel by the electricity?

>>1234448
Christ, these fucking crazy cuntbags.

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lol this thread

>>1232562
Moron detected.

"black" tape is not so wonderful. But you'd know that if you ever actually used it. Especially in combo with mastic tape.

>>1232365
I usually just tin the end of the wire and then put it inside terminal blocks, because I don't give a shit, and because otherwise the wires become frayed, so I'm fucked either way. I should really get some of those ferrules though.

>>1234448
so who actually pays for electricity in india?

>>1235500
pfff you bribe them for free power

>>1234632
With what I said about our data is true, there are exceptions, for instance I had to replace 6 separate 00 Gage alum wires for the AC generators, and there are dedicated splice points in the leading edge of the wing above the engines' strut. So our wiring diagrams showed staggered splice points with a part number for a hefty aluminum splice.

I had to cut the wire with a fine toothed hacksaw. That was a bitch. Also ordered a $7000 hydraulic crimp tool with the appropriate die (dye?) Set.

Countless hours of wire maintenance under my belt but those wires were probably the worst.

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Depends on the nature of current. For higher voltages in sockets like 230 V in Europe (and probably same with 120 V in US), twisting the wires together and soldering the joint is completely out of the way, the tin can "melt" over time and weaken the connection. Creating an Cu-Al connection is also a huge no-no, since the tin oxidizes. This joint also cannot resist higher current (tens of A) in case of an accident. So the blocks are the only answer. A good company is WAGO, or you can use blocks with screws, like in the pic. For small voltages and currents (mA) it shoudn't matter.

>>1232467
What do you guys call these? I just call them wagos

>>1232467
Wagos are life

>>1232544
>>1232557
>>1232574
6 layers of tape is legally 1 layer of insulation.
t. electrician :^)

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>>1232467
anyoned knows how these 'new' ones are compared to the 'old' ones (image related)?

I've only put my hands on a single new one and the levers seemed a bit 'looser' than the older ones.

>>1237523
they are indeed easier to open, i do not believe this to be a problem though.
the decreased height is a big plus (14.6 mm vs 8.1 mm)

>>1237523
they are smaller and dont snap your finger

>>1232365
I hate those fucking things! You need a smaller screw driver to get in the hole so you get no torque. The worst is when they use them in lights as the "means of disconnect"

>>1238253
>You need a smaller screw driver to get in the hole so you get no torque.

yous a longer screwdryver then you mong

>>1232365
Soldering is better, terminal blocks and other stuff is faster. The advantage of soldering isn't that big though(it's all about the resistance of the joint).

>>1236114
>For higher voltages in sockets like 230 V in Europe (and probably same with 120 V in US), twisting the wires together and soldering the joint is completely out of the way, the tin can "melt" over time and weaken the connection
It's myth spread by WAGO and other companies like it.

Solder starts melting in ~200 degrees Celsius and at 300 it's not just "plastic" but fucking melted(assuming lead solder, leadless needs higher temps), majority of isolation on your cables/wires can survive 70 for prolonged periods and around 200 in short term(let's say a second). Just for info - in Europe the smallest wire gauge allowed in home installations is 1,5 sqmm and to get it heat up to 70 degrees you'd need about 15 amps. Obviously the joint needs a little bit less, but again - terminal will heat up more than twisted and soldered wire and reaching the temperature needed to melt the solder is out of the question unless we're talking about short circuit that isn't turned off for a long time for some reason.

I know they teach this shit in schools and write it in testbooks but you know it's bull if you know only a little bit more than they write.

It's just that soldering every single connection in your installation is tiring as fuck and you really don't want to do it unless necessary(space constraints more than electrical ones).

>>1238396
meant textbooks not testbooks

>>1238396
The funny thing is, they say the solder will 'melt' on wires but not in pipes. 70 degrees C is a pretty common setting for a water heater. I've seen people set it as high as 80 for some asinine reason. I have never heard of the solder in copper hot water pipes going runny and those are under pressure. Try and tell that to an electrician though and they make the Windows shutdown noise and reboot.

>>1238405
its an absolute no no to tin wires before clamping in a terminal block due to solder creep. might go some way towards explaining where the boogeyman idea came from.

of course there are other reasons. junction boxes are a different class of repair and must be accessible. there is nothing technically wrong with performing a solder repair and burying it in plaster, nobody likes surprises especially when they potentially compromise the physical strength of what appears to be a solid cable.

and yes of course nobody really wants to be fannying around with a hot iron and then waiting for it to cool down before you can pack up? boring.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1359646212008007

>>1238253
>so you get no torque
You're not supposed to tighten it hard

>>1238394
soldering is so shit, its banned for industrial use for mains voltage applications in Germany

>>1238396
Maybe a misunderstanding chap, I am talking about just twisting the wires together and puting a tin on it, we call it "soldering" in my language. If you meant melting and the Cu core itself, ofc that's something different.

>>1238396
If you play the video, guys were testing various blocks and the twist&tin. You can guess what broke first (okay, it was 100 A for few sec, but still everything else survived). I don't know any professional who would used it in house installations.

>>1238826
shit forgot the link http://elektrika.cz/data/clanky/vysledky-proudoveho-testovanibezsroubovych-svorek-wago-a-ideal

>>1238826
>You can guess what broke first

no we cant guess coz the video is badly edited, unclear, and 95% composed of boring blabbing in a weird language. why not be clear, instead of coy, and explain the parts and the results.

my only takeaway is, when you put 100A thru wires meant for 20-30, everything burns up, which is hardly surprising.

>>1238840
K whatever

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>>1238409
> its an absolute no no to tin wires before clamping in a terminal block due to solder creep

And the same goes for crimping I guess.
But what about factory pre-tinned wires? Can I crimp/clamp them without risking solder creep?
Some copper wires are tinned to ease soldering or prevent oxidation in e.g. maritime environment.

>>1241062
It's not great probably, but if you have ever bought cheap shite from China you would know its commonly done.
If I have something apart and have the opportunity I will re terminate, but I don't go looking. Anything decent will be ferrule crimp into terminal block