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Off grid living

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Thread replies: 146
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Hi /diy/. I am in the financial position to be able to flat out buy a few hectares of country land and /diy/ a small homestead type deal like pic related. I have several questions for anyone on here with some experience.

If I stack the roof with solar panels and set up wind turbines, will that cover the majority of my power use? I'm going to skip anything that isn't 12v and run an inverter pretty much just for a washer/dryer with a backup generator and substantial battery bank.

My other question is what is a good way to cover the few small bills that need paying? I'm not really sure what to grow/make that would be simple and turn a little profit.
>>
>>1223420

You may want to consider flax, which produces linen and linseed oil. Handmade linens are still in very high demand, because really good ones cannot be done in an automated manner. General foodcrops I'd suggest are peanuts/potatoes/beans. You could also do leatherworking/tanning/making musical instruments, carpentry (you'll need it anyway if you build/maintain your own place) work for folks when you need a quick buck. There's also making/selling preserves/jams/pickles/etc from excess crops.
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>>1223420

>I'm not really sure what to grow/make that would be simple

doesn't exist. growing things for profit is fucking hard and both time/capital expensive
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>>1223420
>My other question is what is a good way to cover the few small bills that need paying?
dividends
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>>1223420
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_pDTiFkXgEE
?
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>>1223420
Fruit trees and farming. Get a goat and make handmade cheese. Brew alcohol. Bee keeping. Plant sugar maples and make syrup.
>>
>thinking you're gonna run a washer and dryer off a small solar setup.

Keep dreaming, kiddo.
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>>1223420
Put solar array on the ground. Do you really want to have to climb on the roof to service/maintain all that? Run washer off generator. Hang dry.

For money: p/t job, raise meat animals, sell something you make by hand. Nearly impossible to compete with factory farms unless you find a niche market for something.

My $.02
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>>1223420
Honestly you can make a decent dime of alcohol brewing. Mead and wine can make you a livable wage. Moonshine works too, but that's if you're not retarded. Not sure about the electrical part, but you can dig out a winterized greenhouse and have vegetables year around to reduce costs.
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>>1223420
>>>/b/741339888
>>
Save a couple thousand and construct greenhouses. Raise hawthoria cultivars, trichocereus cultivars, and orchid cultivars. Profit endlessly
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>>1223660
A load of laundry only burns 3-4 Kwh and is not as demanding to run as you might think. The number one consumer of electricity in your home is air conditioning. If the OP only runs fans and uses wood heat in the winter, he could probably get by with a $4000-$6000 solar setup.
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>>1223706
Can you build a greenhouse around your actual house for heat in the winter? And then just take down the sheeting in the summer?
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>>1223420
If you have enough to buy a lot of land, you may want to consider investing in something that pays out repetitively.
>>1223601
This.

If you need more power than you can generate with good sun exposure on your roof (no trees shading it part of the day), you're doing something fucking wrong.

With wind turbines, you can probably generate an excess of what you need.
If you HAVE an electrical grid connection there, and your company has favorable buy-back policies, you could pay your other bills by selling power back to the grid.
Some companies literally mail you a check.


If you aren't going to sell power back, you can definitely make do with just a small wind turbine (500Watts to 2KWatts?), and 5-10 KW of solar panels.

Buy your panels used in bulk. (10 panels or so at a time).
Don't cheap out on your charge controller.
Buy a used Tesla battery pack or something that's been re-tested.

You'll be able to air condition your place 24/7, and run whatever you want. You don't have to worry about not inverting to AC because of losses, you'll have plenty.

Also:
>>1223678
This.
Solar array goes on ground.

But don't run washer off generator. That's stupid. Just oversize your panel capacity and do your laundry during the day. Don't spend money on gasoline!
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>>1223759
A load of laundry, including the dryer, probably only burns a few KWhrs of power, yea.
If you line dry, you can get away with a lot less.


I have spent ~$2000 on my solar setup.
I can generate about 4 KWhrs in a day.
If I spend about $2000 more, I could bump that up to 20 KWhrs.

I have currently:
1800 watts of solar panels.
An EPever Tracer charge controller. (Limits me severely, I can only pull 40 amps at a time at 12 volts. I need to upgrade. Considering a MidNite Classic 150.)
5KWhrs of usable storage (about 10 KWhrs total) in SLA batteries.
A 1200 watt pure-sine inverter.

Solar isn't super expensive if you can limit your consumption to mostly during the hours when you have good sun. Storage is by far the most expensive part.
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>>1223759
yeah but you typically only need AC during the day, so the solar should cover that power cost anyways.
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>>1224020
This. Don't live somewhere where you need your AC running full duty cycle all night.
That's called hell.

It's also called Alabama. T_T
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>>1223760
http://newatlas.com/chibb-house-sustainability
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OP here again. Thanks for all the replies anons, good information to have. Can't believe I didn't think to put the panels on the ground, I'm just used to thinking in suburban terms where space is a premium.

What would be my best bet be for hot water? I live in New Zealand so sun is usually pretty good, obviously in winter that is a problem though so I'm thinking about a wetback fire that feeds into the same cylinder as the solar. Will a cylinder rape my batteries? It would be nice to not have to have gas or diesel hot water heaters.
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>>1224078
>What would be my best bet be for hot water?
parabolic troughs, black paint solar heaters, and/or propane.

You could just use a kettle or something to boil a 3-4 gallons or so and take a navy shower. Adjusting your habbits is the easiest way. You can always just build a sauna.
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>>1224090
Also keep in mind when I say boil I mean boil. It should be relatively simply to set up two reservoirs and just use a mixer tap. You should be able to get 7 gallons of hot water or 10 gallons of warm water. That's more than enough for the laziest navy shower ever.
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>>1224078
An electric hot water heater will definitely use A LOT of power.
I'd set it up so that it doesn't run at night if possible.

Now, if you wire stuff up right, and use the right controllers, you could use a hot water heater as a 'dump load' for your solar.
This way, when your batteries are full and you're generating more than you're using, it will use that power to heat the water.

>>1224090
>>1224093
Yea, this is the way to go normally.
I'd heat a small amount of hot water when I'm ready to use it. Trying to keep water hot is a bitch.
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>>1224099
I might add, it's possible to have a well insulated, very small water heater.
Though it'd be a HUGE draw when it was actually heating, more than an AC unit odds are, it'd only have to run <sometimes>, and wouldn't kill an appropriately sized battery bank by any means if the load was accounted for when designing the power system.

You can run anything you want off solar (and/or wind). You just have to size the system right for your loads.
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>>1223420
Solarfag here (rural but not a retard out in the middle of nowhere), washer and dryer are not your priority, get a washboard and a clothesline. Your main things are going to be a fridge and a chest freezer or two if you do homekill or if you into hunting. Thats 70% of your power gone unless you have batteries out the fucking wazoo. Anyways for cooking get yourself a small effeciant benchtop frying pan thingy and a woodstove, its real annoying to waste wood on a sunny day if you want something cooked quick.
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>>1224078
Fuck me your a kiwi, im in Wanganui. Anyways if your serious about offgridding (although I wouodnt reccomend you go full retard) get used to cold showers. It gets cold here but its never bad enough to the point where you'll die if you have a cold shower.
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>>1224145
I don't want to go full retard, I just want a piece of my own debt-free land where I make my own power and hot water so im not at the mercy of banks, power companies or whatever other fuckheads are in charge.

I realise one of us probably still will have to have a part time job to make ends meet, but without paying for rent/mortgage your money goes a long way. Especially since you have enough free time to go game hunting on your nicely sized bit of land and cut down heaps on food bills. It's not hard to take a few rabbits and they go a long fucking way between two people.

Making alcohol does actually sound like a pretty good idea though I might look into it.
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>>1224147
Cut the shit, lifestyle blocks are work. Start learning to see how shitty things can be before you rush into them.
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>>1224148
Mate I built a 200 square meter house damn near by myself from scratch with zero fucking experience using nothing but my fucking brain. All over weekends while working a full time job, I didn't have a single day off for almost 2 years.

I'm sure I can handle building a tiny 50 square meter box cabin and using my basic knowledge on how to landscape large areas with heavy machinery.
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>>1224150
nah, your gonna rape your wife and then kill your kids
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>>1224151
It's his property, stop trying to stop the man from fulfilling his dreams.
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>>1224078
Look at on demand propane hot water heaters. many off girders here in Hawai'i use them. You can do a cost rundown to see if a propane refrigerator would be a wise choice over time. (I'm sure there is a delivery company there that will top up your tank.
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>>1223420
>My other question is what is a good way to cover the few small bills that need paying? I'm not really sure what to grow/make that would be simple and turn a little profit.
have an etsy shop and youtube channel

meme folk crafts sell for boatloads, and being off-grid means you can print it on the box and jack up the price because it's ~ A U T H E N T I C ~

also you dont need a dryer. washer maybe but even then hand washing isnt hard.
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>>1224147
Where abouts you at in the country?
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>>1223420
For the extra money part.. buy 2-3 girl dogs and one boy. Breed them and sell once in awhile. Got around $15,000 from each girl thanks to that back when I used to do that. Now they're just old. Yorkies sell for a fuck ton if you travel to NYC to sell them.
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>>1225387
I was kind of hoping to stay away from fossil fuels as much as possible since propane is stupid expensive in NZ. Like 30-40 bucks for a 3kg bottle.

>>1225417
Kek I could make 'custom craft' shit all day like little tables and shit easy as. That's a good idea.

>>1225420
Canterbury, but honestly I don't give a shit where the land is so long as it's not way down south as I would be relying on solar a lot, would like to stay away from fucking dairy farms too. There looks to be some far north lots for a decent price.
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>>1223504
its downright impossible to make a profit farming. the corporation exploits the farmer like no other
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>>1225579
Nah mate avoid far north like a plague, unless you want an investment plot. Also my 12 acres was forestry, the soils normally alright if it was pine the needles sorta keep the ground soft and mulched. It was just a real cunt spending ~2 years ripping up all the stumps, fencing and getting grass to grow.
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>>1225673
>>1225579
Also to explain, I only have grazing on 5 acres, 3 that Ive replanted with fir and around an acre around the house that I use for the garden and the chooks. The rest if the driveway a hill I cant be fucked to work and muddy shit.
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Thinking about getting started with diy off-grid homesteading.

>How much money should you have to get started?
Best state
>Best state for homesteading in the US?
>Is hydroenergy a viable alternative to solar and wind?
>>
>>1223420
>washer
>dryer

>12v
Kek

12v dc ->12v ac is not enoug
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>>1224078
Oh, there is another option for offgrid that doesn't get a ton of attention. You can make a compost pile hot water heater. It doesn't work amazingly well, but a compost pile retains a lot of heat and can get up to 150 degrees f for a few months, so depending on how much piping you run through it can get the water pretty warm.
Downside is it's a lot of work, and you have to regularly rebuild it. I think it can last up to 18 months for the big piles.

You can also look at pellet boilers or woodchip boilers and grow trees for wood/chips.
Washing machine you might be better off with something bicycle driven or use a and gear up to the shaft of it, or gasoiline, because solar to battery to electric motor is going to use a shitton of power + efficiency loss.
Dryer... just setup clotheslines. Sorry mate, it's not even worth it.
The only good idea for money aside from crafts is if you have a restaurant within reasonable distance, it might be worth trying to get a contract to supply them with some niche products, like harvested daily baby greens. Good restaurants can pay pretty well for REALLY fresh quality, because they can't get it from factory farms, everything is a few days/weeks old by the time it gets to the market, and it's all harvested before it's ripe to compensate for that, which damages the taste.
Could be a few hundred$ a week for ~2hrs a day of farming/gardening/harvesting and delivery driving 3x a week. I did some research on urban growers, and they can make something like $60-100k a year supplying a dozen restaurants with 100lbs of food a week or so. So about a pickup load of premium food every week. But it requires a consistent high quality supply and hustle to sell the managers/chefs, and availability of restaurants, which idk if you have.
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>>1225765
>$$$?
Depends a lot on your costs/planned lifestyle. track your costs for a month or two, get a really good idea of what you need to live off, and try to give yourself at least six months of that+cost of land+cost of new home and associated materials
>Best state?
Lots of debates on this one. Maine or Alaska have lots of cheap land, and Alaskans actually receive money from the govt every year because oil. then again, lots of cheap land in the desert too, so it's up to what kind of climate you like best.
>hydro?
maybe. you really need quite a sizeable stream for that unless your energy needs are suuuper minimal. and folks downstream may not like you doing it, so it's a good idea to make sure you've got the rights before setting anything up. kite-based wind is looking like a better and better solution desu
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>>1224099
it's kind of dumb to use PV panels with barely 20% conversion efficiency and even more losses in the inverter to HEAT FUCKING WATER instead of using the sun to heat it directly (solar water heater), should be considerably cheaper.
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>>1227579
Some people like to shower at the end of the day.
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op, consider unironically growing marijuana. not cartel-tier, but just a few plants that you can either use yourself or make enough to pay the bills/random expenses.

for efficiency and opsec, invest in a scale, coffee grinder, and vacuum sealer once you have a nice harvest, dry and cure all the bud, grind it up, weigh out into 1oz portions, and vacseal. you now have ultra light, scentless (mostly), and long lasting stuff. store in a dark, cool, dry area. ez income
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>>1224099
>>1227579
Wouldn't one of those on-demand water heaters be ideal for off-grid? Still draws a lot of power but only when you're using it, not constantly reheating a 50 gallon tank.
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>>1227735
It depends. How good is your insulation? You can have almost no energy loss from the tank at 'idle'.

However, yes, you are right. Though, an 'on demand' water heater would draw somewhere in the neighborhood of 10,000 watts or more when on, iirc.

I don't know if that's really... doable on most people's budget.
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>>1228242
Forgot to add, things like that will basically necessitate a 48v or preferably 60v battery bank, and a fuckton of batteries.
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>>1228242
Apparently there ARE smaller on-demand heaters, but they still draw something like 3.5 KW when operating. That's a hefty draw to have for a 30 minute shower.
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>>1228244
>30 minute shower
christ
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>>1228244
>there ARE smaller on-demand heate

And check the flow. When I thought about getting a smaller one and looked at the gallons per minute, then went and ran a gallon in the time they said, it's not very much flow.
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>>1228255
I mean, a 10 minute shower even... That's still a lot of power and it's a lot of power at once.

But, if you could get one that used 3.5KW, and actually provided what you need, the convenience may be worth it. It's certainly more efficient over time.
(Sure the immediate draw is high, but there's 0 draw when not using it. Gives you some serious decision making capabilities as to when you want to draw that power.)


>>1228257
Valid point. The small ones may not be able to supply much, but it may be enough. You'd have to figure out how much cold water you'd end up mixing in when showering and such. That'll give you what portion of the water needs to actually come from the heater.
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>>1228296
All this talk about hot water made me think about something, do you do your dishes in hot water?
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>>1228303
I don't. Don't know if OP does.

Why would I? It doesn't do anything. I can't touch water hot enough to sterilize things from bacteria. That's called getting burned.

That's a good point though. If OP uses hot water for dishes, holy crud is the power usage gonna go up.
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>>1223420
Sell kombucha to nu-whites, shits easy as fuck to make and cost like 5$ a bottle in stores. Hippies fucking love it
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>>1228303
You can just heat water on a woodstove
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>>1228315
Eh, never understood who still tries to use the hottest possible water to wash them. Some residues are easier to get off with warm water but nothing that can't be done with a brush or a coarse sponge
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>>1228257
A water-saving shower head helps. Most are limited to about 3gpm. You might be able to get by with 1gpm heating if it's tea-temperature at the outlet.

>>1228463
It's the age-old can-we/should-we tradeoff.
>>
make sure it is actually legal to be off grid.

LA county enforced a law require houses to be hooked up to the power grid, to chase out a bunch of off grid people in the desert. so they could buy the land for the high speed rail.
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>>1228552
petty fascists the lot of them

Move state if it's illegal, you don't want to be dealing with that retarded of a bureaucracy.
>>
You want solar collectors and big insulated tank.Stay away from electric water heaters,they will demolish your battery really fast.
Solar panels for the summer,wind turbines for the winter.When the sun doesnt shine,wind blows.Use infrapanels for sizeable reduction in woodconsumption in winter.
Step 1: get 50 chickens
Step 2: let them roam free
Step 3: sell bioeggs&biomeat
Step 4: profit
>>
>>1228657
Man chickens are amazing. They eat garbage and shit food. (eggs)
How the hell does such a useful bird exist?
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>>1228657
>>1228673
the only downside is the horrific shit smell.. nothing worse than chicken poop
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>>1228695
Free roaming chicken dont smell mate.
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>>1223420
Google Earth ships. You'll ger a real good idea how to build everything.
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>>1223420
Grow your own crops for the profit and sell them to people. Raise some cattle or animals and sell the meat you don't need.
>>
>>1227718
Weed prices there are outrageous too. Op you could probably make 3-400 an oz, four plants would be 1-2 pounds if indoor, even more if outdoor.
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>>1228700
Eh?
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>>1223420
>power use?

Of course! There are many online solar panel, battery array, etc calculators online you can easily figure this up. Example, (just google 'zones' for your country)

https://www.wholesalesolar.com/solar-information/start-here/offgrid-calculator

>bills?

I use egg-laying chickens. They can pay for their own feed and give you some cash. Free-range will be much cheaper, but you may need to invest in predator fencing or hides to shield from birds of prey. All my costs are extremely low. In fact my largest expenses are things like various types of require insurances (USA) and taxes. I get a tax break since I own and run a farm. I've been sorta wanting to make my own power, but it wouldn't be for saving money. I only use about $25/month in energy as is.

I can recommend,

•Polytunnels (extend the growing season.)
•Greenhouses (year-round growing and seedling starting.)
•Invasive Bamboo (for building material and fuel) [WARNING! This shit is super invasive. Grow it in a 4 feet high raised bed using rock-filled gabions as the sides of the raised beds. Run stalks through a crusher to break their air pockets before using as a fuel in fire or they will sound like a shotgun going off.]
•Chickens (easy-peasy; pair them with your orchard)
•Goats (good foragers, easy milk and meat; get easy birthing breeds only)
•Horse stable for housing other people's horses. (they pay you to stable them and you get all the manure you can possible use for your gardens)
•Sheep (good grazers, easy meat, tons of wool; again only get good birthing breeds)

>>1224078
Panels on your roof will shade your house and keep it a bit cooler. Wide porches also help a lot.
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>>1228732
...continued.

•Raised garden beds (bad or poor local soil? make your own! these are easily coverd with polytunnels)
•Solar water heater (cold winters? use a 2 circuit system where the anti-freeze circuit outside warms the house water inside via heat exchanger)
•Check out "Rocket Stove Mass Heater".
•Summer kitchen (too hot in summer and don't want to heat your house up cooking? make a summer kitchen and cook outside. I run around with my little rocket stove and cook whereever on the farm.)
•Remember farming is EASY. Making money farming is EASY. If you find that it is hard, you are doing it wrong! Figure out what you are doing wrong.
•Finally, join us: >>>/out/1074788

>>1228700
>Google Earth ships

Ignore this guy, Earthships are fucking terrible. A traditional stone foundation, cob wall, thatch/tile/slate/stone/whatever roof house is 1,000 times less work, looks better, performs better, is not environmentally toxic or illegal, and can last centuries even in rainy areas.
>>
>>1228733
>>1228732
Oh and make a cellar! Keep all your outbuildings as close to your house as possible because walking around in bad weather fucking sucks.
>>
>>1228732
>>1228733
>>1228734
Great stuff lad, thanks
What are startup costs like for building your own home with natural materials and getting your land producing more than you're using?
How do you go about planning these things granted you've already got the land?
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>>1228748
Costs depends on your local area's economy and how many friends and skills you have and how much work you are willing to do yourself. It is never a very good question. A highly motivated and skilled DIYer can do just about anything cheaply with lots of work. The neat thing about stuff like cob is that it is "novel" enough to modern people that you can often times get free help by putting out an add. As with everything, you need to research it or you'll end up building a money sink or death trap.

>planning

Start from, "you". Like when designing a house, you design it from the inside out. That is, you take some items that represent your furniture and place them in ways you want them to be positioned. Then you design a house around that. So, design around you, your work, and life. Researching some basic drafting for housing will help a lot in that area. Beyond that, it is all work-based and environment-based. Where does the sun rise and set? What direction dose the prevailing wind come in from? Those things need to be known so you can take them into account when designing a layout for anything.
>>
>>1224151
Isn't that the fate of us all
>>
>>1225765
>>Is hydroenergy a viable alternative to solar and wind?
https://ludens.cl/paradise/turbine/turbine.html
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>>1229312
Hydro electricity is pretty complicated. It's not as simple as solar or wind.
But damn is it reliable (pun intended) if you have a good stream that doesn't run dry year round.
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>>1223420
when you live off grid do you call the inspectors? or do you just build your house.
>>
>>1224147
maybe research about solar laws. I hear that the govt charges a fee to use solar or tax the fuck out of you because its taking the money away from the (((power companies)))

fellow NZ here, what region you at? you'll run into real problems if we have another shit summer like last year.
>>
>>1229780
still subject to building laws in NZ, not sure about anywhere else.
farmers need consent to stick in a fucking drain pipe under their driveways here.
>>
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>>1229381
It isn't complicated. It just depends on the location as to what type to use and how to install it.
>>
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>>1230225
>tfw living near a river and can't use it for hydro because flood stage is 15 feet above normal flow stage and everything from entire trees, vehicles, and campers are known to float by during floods.

Found the source for that vid: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmHY9DkD1Hw
>>
>>1230184
>I hear that the govt charges a fee to use solar or tax the fuck out of you because its taking the money away from the (((power companies)))

Maybe they should figure up the average amount of electricity people use in the country then tax everyone by that amount, even if they don't use electric at all. They could do the same thing for air and water.
>>
>>1223420
>wind turbines

I am looking in to homesteading and was considering solar/wind, however, when you read about how unreliable wind is versus the cost, and how you could install a LP gas refrigerator for food storage, and that nowdays, with low cost LED lighting not requiring so much power, its probably better to just do solar.
>>
>>1223630
>>1223420
To further build on his suggestions, if you really do want to turn a profit, consider growing starfruit and make some wine.
>>
>>1223420
This video gives some neat ideas on growing easy shit for money, I'm curious if it works.
https://youtu.be/UdaeDG0qq1Y
>>
>>1230601
half of everyones responses are various types of farming, other half are things that will get your land repossessed by the government and yourself living in prison.
>>
>>1230184
I would have a fucking aneurysm if I bought a 10kw solar system and a 5kw wind system and some beauracrats roll in and tells me I have to make monthly payments to the state for the privilege of using the wind and sun. I want to get away from these cunts Jesus Christ.
>>
>>1230617
Planting black walnuts as a retirement plan is a fucking dope idea. Pay a company to log them and then build expensive ass furniture from them.

>mfw an easy to make coffee table is like 1000 DOLLARS in black walnut.
>>
>>1230225
True, some areas do indeed have favorable conditions which make things a lot simpler.
>>
>>1230497
Not OP, but...
I'd never want to be reliant on LP gas. If I go off-grid, it's so that I don't have to buy energy from companies / other people and sources.
>>
>>1230623
Why would making wine be illegal?
>>
>>1230835
Most countries have laws concerning the manufacture and sale of alcohol which includes wine. For example, the US allows you to make up to 200 gallons of wine for personal use or for gifting. However, you aren't allowed to sell it to anybody because you don't have a license to sell alcohol.
>>
>>1230843
You can get the licensing though. You can always get permits and such.
Now, that of course has to be factored into if it'll be a good source of income.
>>
>>1230849
>atf
>letting anyone other than cartel members live
WEW.

Your life isn't worth a couple extra bucks a month.
>>
>>1230882
Where I live, I can get a Farmer's alcohol license if I grow something like 10% of the ingredients on my property. It costs around $1500 per year though. It doesn't cover distribution or selling it anywhere else. The latter two cost well over $2k each.
>>
>>1230887
Ouch. Yea, that's hard to make a profit like that...
>>
>>1230665
Bureaucrats only do this because the utility companies lobby the shit out of them to fuck solar.

Think about it-- why would the electric company, who can generate power and sell it to you at insane markup, want you to be able to use solar and potentially generate more electricity than you use?

If you don't like it, participate in your local and state governments and vote for ecologically-minded candidates who are willing to tell the utilities to fuck off.

Or run for local office yourself. :^)
>>
>>1223420
>dryer

But why? Isn't the sun and a clothes line not good enough?

Also, look in to getting a propane refrigerator, they used to be popular in a lot of places during the day before electric became widespread. It should be easier and cheaper to run a propane line to feed your stove for cooking and a propane line to power your frige

Solar electric is still costly. You should try to minimize for like just LED lighting. Also, look into solar hot water to also cut down on power loads.

Wind power is expensive for the returns. It sounds good, but turns out the maintenance versus intitial installation versus return isn't worth it for what I've read.
>>
>>1223660

Or you could use a washtub to wash the clothes and a clothes line to dry. Cost is about $60 for tub, washboard and clothesline, sun = free

And if you wash by hand, you'd be amazed how better your clothes smell.
>>
>>1231708
Yea, you can actually use the sun to directly heat your water, using solar panels that you just pump the water through. (Not the photo voltaic kind.)

Any large scale wind power is costly. Sometimes if you have the right environment, it can be convenient enough to justify the cost, but normally solar is cheaper, and you can just 'have a fuckload of panels' if you have partial shading, frequent cloudy weather, etc.
>>
>>1230617
>a lot

haha, I get jokes
>>
File: 1420379650325.png (90KB, 256x286px) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
1420379650325.png
90KB, 256x286px
Buy 50 female pigs.
Buy 50 male deer.
Pen them up together.
Now you have a hundred sows and bucks.
>>
>>1231973
dad-tier joke
I laughed
>>
>>1231973
>
>>
File: neat-bender.jpg (28KB, 500x491px) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
neat-bender.jpg
28KB, 500x491px
>>1224037
>>
>>1231973
dad-tier joke, yea...
lol'd a bit.
>>
>>1228704
buy a pollen press and make hash from the post-grind keef for even more drug shekels
>>
>>1228695
>nothing worse than chicken poop
Feed them garlic once every week. I have just over 40 chickens and I haven't had an issue with smell.
>>
bumperango
>>
>>1227567
>Maine or Alaska have lots of cheap land,
>Alaska
No. Alaska has the lowest amount of privately owned land in the nation. Most of the land is owned by the federal government, state government, indian reservation and the university of alaska. What's left is eye wateringly expensive.

Maine is ok though.
>>
>>1223420
Use a wood fire for heating water, these electricity guys are stuck in a loop.
>>
Is there a way to heat a room without damaging it with smoke?
I only know about candle-based heaters, but those may be inefficient for larger rooms and you can't cook on them.
>>
>>1235099
>Is there a way to heat a room without damaging it with smoke?
heat pipes
>>
>>1234867
>Alaska has the lowest amount of privately owned land in the nation.
psure that's idaho or nevada.
>>
>>1231861
>Yea, you can actually use the sun to directly heat your water, using solar panels that you just pump the water through. (Not the photo voltaic kind.)
This really depends on what the sun's angle is to you. IDK much about New Zealand, but they are close to Antarctica. Here in North Dakota, water would freeze and blow up any solar-water water heating system you had in winter.
>>
Is there an alternative energy storage method than batteries? Pumped hydro and compressed air both look really good but I can't find anything small scale, is there such a thing?
>>
>>1235291
I have to do calculation but I wonder how well would two swimming pools fare. One at elevation of 4 meters.
>>
>>1235112
What if I want to squat in some abandoned house like a piece of shit without damaging stuff?
>>
>>1235379
It's either warm in hell or you'll never be cold again because there is no sensation after death.

Property is cheap. Don't be an idiot, leave the population centers. For fucks sake, you could get a house in detroit for under $1000, there is no excuse.


Squat in a homeless shelter like everyone else.
>>
>>1235558
I'm not murrican, tho.
Detroit sounds like a suicide option and I'm pretty sure that for $1000 you will get either ruins or it will be in shittiest location ever.
Homeless shelters aren't the cleanest and happiest places in the world, not to mention lack of room to do your stuff.
>>
>>1235578
>I'm pretty sure that for $1000 you will get either ruins
There is Heisenberg's copper, but that's about it.

>it will be in shittiest location ever.
Detroit is not notably worse than any other population center.

>not to mention lack of room to do your stuff.
You don't have a home, what need do you have for items of value? Priorities.

>Detroit sounds like a suicide option
Keep everything locked, learn situational awareness, and around blacks never relax.
>>
Jesus Christ. Why is land so fucking expensive? Is it too much to ask for a large plot of land to build my dream home? House wouldn't be too big, maybe, just enough for a small family. Most would be farm land.
>>
>>1236353
I should also add that I like my privacy and would like to blacksmith or /k/ it up without someone busting my ass
>>
>>1223420
If you still have bills to pay then you're not off the grid.
Make a well with a basin from where you can pump the water with a hydrophore to your house with the electricity from the solar panels or wind turbines. If you run out of electricity for whatever reason you can still get water from the well with a bucket. For heating (if there's winter), use electric heaters but invest in wood sources too like one of those closed fireplaces (I couldn't find the translation in English), theres a variant which you can use as stove too but there are some big ones used especially for room heating. Don't buy that much land if you don't plan to cultivate it. Get a smaller land instead but with a forest so you have a wood source and a rivulet. Make yourself a little farm with chickens, pigs and maybe a bull and a cow. Grow potatoes, beans, corn, whatever you can self sustain yourself. Make it like it's the end of the world.
>>
>>1228695
chicken shit is high in nitrogen.
you get enough
you could sell some fertilizer shit along with compost tea to yuppies who want to start growing weed or something.
>>
>>1223420
You could set up a pumped storage hydroelectric rig (2+ cisterns on different levels, get water from roof runoff) for a steady power supply/storage. Use the excess from solar panels and wind turbines to run pumps from the lower cisterns to the higher. Use the electicity to mine cryptocurrencies.

To grow stuff, set up a greenhouse + aquaponics system. You can improvise a lot - put the north side of the greenhouses in a berm, set up brine tanks to absorb heat and radiate it at night. Once you have a dozen greenhouses it gets cheaper to make more but the work is about the same.

Grow your food and grow whatever sells - check if you can legally sell tobacco without taxes, people love organic stuff. If you live near SWPLs they love organic stuff, but make sure you meet the requirements. Ask a boutique farmer for more details.

>>1223630
Fruit and nut trees take a few years to mature, and you have to deal with root/fruit stocks. It's doable but it will take a while. Grow them in your greenhouse and read up on it until they're mature enough to plant. When you plant, make sure that you have a piece of equipment in mind to harvest them so you don't have to pay fruit pickers.

If you're somewhere that's pretty cool/cold year-round, build a berm on the north side of your property in a semi-circle around the north-east and north-west. It will keep off the worst of the wind and increase the temperature by about 2 to 5 degrees.

>>1224078
For hot-water in the summer, you want a solar hot water heater. You can build an improvised one with a lot of piping/tubing, a half-assed greenhouse, and some means to concentrate the heat.

I'm not sure how it will work in the winter. Assume it doesn't and prepare accordingly.

>>1225673
Have some farmer dump a few tones of shit on your property and rake it around. In 6 months you'll have a fucking prairie. If there's a farm or processing plant that doesn't use pesticides, have them dump their organic food waste there.
>>
>>1236427
>2012
>not keeping your nitrogen for yourself
You don't get out more than you put in.
>>
>>1235587
Still, I'm not living in Burgerstan.

>You don't have a home, what need do you have for items of value? Priorities.
Stuff that makes surviving easier, carrying everywhere with you may be exhausting.
And vacant house means vacant land, that means veggie garden.
>>
>>1236506
Making use of vacant land for sustainable farming of non-invasive species is an acceptable level of degeneracy.
Less degenerate would be the use of charity.
>>
>>1228320
there are wood fed water heaters... I lived where there was one... its a tall metal tank with a drawer underneath where you burn wood.. has a threaded spout at the base.. should be able to feed it somehow into your shower or tub or just shower outside when you want it hot... we used to bath outdoors in the winter in the sierra Nevada while it was snowing.. glorious.

http://destinysurvival.com/2013/04/20/almost-free-wood-burning-furnace-and-hot-water-heater/
>>
>>1223603
Had me a hearty kek
>>
>>1230601
Stardew Valley is a fun game.
>>
>>1227718
>>1228704
>>1232791
seriously considering this
tell me more plz
>>
Has anyone done anything with underground houses/bunkers? I've got roughly 10 acres of land surrounded by 30 acres of forest and I'm looking into building an underground house (temperature control and privacy are super appealing).
>>
You need wood? Grow bamboos

You need water healing? Try solar heating

You need light? Try solar lighting setup (aka use sunlight angles efficiently.

You need power for computers/tv? Use batteries.

Emergency powers? Generators.
>>
>>1223420
How do you get internet connection?
>>
>>1223420
>hectares

What the fuck kind of unit is that. Please convert into square furlongs so we can all understand what the fuck your talking about.
>>
>>1238734
Only the US and Brazil use the acreage unit of measurement. The rest of the world uses that hectare.
>>
>>1238284
I live in a berm house. Good drainage and windows are your friends. Moisture is a killer without the correct setup. It's dark in the back part without proper window position and general house direction. Solar tubes are reliable and don't leak if installed correctly. My utility and heating bills are cheap, but I burn wood. Wood heat dries out the house if you live in a subtropical climate. Good drainage is extremely important. Avoid a bottom of a hillside if you can. South facing is ideal.
>>
>>1238850
Utilize permaculture design in your earth shelter setup and you can cut out a lot of headache. (Swales, tree planting)
>>
>>1223760
We call these sunrooms in my area.
>>
>>1238847
wtf most countries use km^2
>>
>>1227647
That's what the hot water tank is for.
50-ish gallons should be more then enough even if you like long showers.
>>
>>1225387

Can you give me a quick rundown on off-gridding in Hawaii? I'd love to do that.
>>
>>1239183
some people also like to bath with more than lukewarm (at best) water.
>>
>>1224078
>taking hot showers off the grid
just be a man and use the cold water. you'll feel better
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