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Who are the best DC Comics villains, and why are they the Gentry?

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Who are the best DC Comics villains, and why are they the Gentry?
>>
>>94519558
they aren't. you just defend shitty designs and motivations with
>DUDE METASSON LMAO
>>
>>94519687
>you just defend shitty designs and motivations
>shitty designs
Birch please. We all know how much pussy Intellectron is getting.
>>
>>94519876
it looks like a pokemon
and not of of the good ones aka the first 252
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>>94520085
>genwunner
Opinion discarded
>>
>>94519558

I can't give a shit about the Gentry. They are too in your face about it.

An eldritch horror villains the logic and layout of the comic book as its eldritch power isn't a bad idea, but like all cosmic horror its better the less screentime it has. No cosmic horror survives description or visualization.

But the Gentry are like a bad video game cutscene in a 'horror' video game. Instead of letting the dread build up naturally, grabbing the camera and forcing the viewer to rub his nose directly in the face of spoopy ghost skeleton man, gosh isn't this frightening?

tldr: not a terrible idea, but a fucking awful execution.
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>>94520206
I don't think the Gentry are meant to be the 'normal' version of cosmic horror. They embody every bad archetype and overused cliche in the comic industry. They seem to purposefully be "in your face", because that's how writers nowadays think all eldritch villains should be. Upfront and in your face to generate "horror". The Gentry are pretty much a straight jab at all of those bad cliches that permeate the industry.
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>>94520319

"Its shit on purpose" isn't exactly praise.
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>>94520352
Eh, praise or not its certainly an interesting way to create a villain. Most people wouldn't dare to try and create villains based around the cancer saturating the industry, simultaneously making them 'terrible' and yet intriguing all the same, but Morrison.
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>>94519687
U mock what u don't understand.

Good.
>>
>>94520206
That's the whole point. I mean they even blatantly rag on them later in the Ultra Comics (LOL THE BIG BAD'S A TALKING EGG?!). The real interest behind them is their influence in the stories they invade ultimately leading to >>94520423.
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>>94520352
Except they work on their own as event comics final bosses which is what they satirize. They're (insert Hickman Avengers bad guy here) done right.

>>94520206
>Muh slow burn cosmic horror

That works when the main characters are normal scholars. When they're superhumans who travel between dimensions on magic ships you need them to be loud and powerful. You need them to show up and wreck shit.

That isn't to say there weren't subtle, creepy aspects to the Gentry. Lord Broken was subtle as fuck in Pax Americana. Dame Merciless was Nazi Superman's inner guilt and bad dreams. Hell Machine was subtle in Thunderworld as well as the artificial Rock of Eternity.

Also Intellectron was creepy as fuck in Ultra. All of Ultra comics was creepy.
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The best DC villain is Starro. This is a known fact,
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>>94520624

Starro, get off the internet.
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>>94519558
>i cant touch the edge of space and the end of time
Sooooo Gwenpool could kick their asses?
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>>94520605
They're supposed to represent the lack of generative power in comics. In modern comics helping people and saving the day after afterthoughts especially when compared to the Silver Age.

Modern comics are a series of steadily escalating wars of survival against overwhelming enemies. See Hickman Avengers and its constant cosmic escalation until the multiverse just out and out died and the heroes fail. It also doesn't help that a lot of the problems are -caused- by the heroes (see the two Civil Wars and X-men vs Avengers/Inhumans).

When the JLA won in the Silver Age you knew it was for the best because they were always out helping astronaughts and alien races and reminding the reader that the Legion of Superheros Earth was basically a Star Trek utopia.

When modern heroes win its not the same. It's "whew that was close. So when does Thanos show up?"

"I kept the body count low" is counted as win for the hero in modern superhero stories. Just look at Snyder Superman.
>>
>>94519558
>Only one rule you are losing

This is a brilliant deconstruction of the same kind of "epic war" feel all modern capeshit is trying to do.
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>>94520702
>A neet who would rather live in fantasy than in real life

She is already a slave to the Gentry riding their Oblivion Machine into a hellish existence.
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>>94520706
I got that theme in all of the issue but the Shazam one, what was the bad stuff in that one? It's been a while but aside from the multiverse Sivanas and something happening with the Rock of Eternity everything seemed to work out well.
>>
>>94520888
Thunderworld was a modernized silver age world so they were able to BTFO the Gentry. They were the first Earth seen in multiversity that managed to pull it off. They were a turning point.

The "hidden Gentry" in Thunderworld was Hellmachine in the form of the Artificial rock of Eternity.
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>>94519558
I've always liked the Crime Syndicate. It's neat to see the other side of the coin when it comes to familiar characters.
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>>94520888
Shazams universe wasn't as affected specifically because they embody Hope and Joy, and all the wonders of Life, everything that the Gentry aren't. Every other inverse had some edgy as fuck nightmare for their Earth's, and that made I t easy for the Gentry to slip in and subvert everything. Shazams though? It has none of that, and that made it safe.
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>>94520085
>Johtomons
>good

Found the kiddie trying to look patrician.
>>
>>94520979
>>94521053
Thanks, that made sense! It's nice that not every story in Multiversity was just "shit gets fucked."
>>
>>94519558
The Gentry, like everything Morrison does nowadays, are awful.

He creates these cosmic monsters that are supposed to represent the cliches that have reduced cape comics somehow, but he doesn't actually do anything with them that isn't a huge cliche. Just pointing out that your villains and your story are tired hackneyed shit is not enough to make them tired hackneyed shit.

The entire concept is empty posturing, preaching without action. Like everything Morrison has done in the last few years. Post-Seven Soldiers Morrison is such a fucking disappointment.
>>
>>94521105
Yeah, it shows that despite how fucked most of the alternate Earth's are, there is still some light amongst the darkness. Though I am still wondering how a certain New God ties into the Gentry's schemes.
>>
>>94521230
>the Gentry were literally 2deep4 some people

Amazing. God forbid a story draw on the history of the medium instead of rehashing classic literature for the millionth time.

Well, for folks like that there'll always be Moore, I suppose. He's never been able to unhook his beardy face from Lovecraft's moldy cock.
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>>94521105
The worlds we saw progressively got better at fighting back. Just look at how they all end.

SOS: World is fucked, Atom's face is melting, Dr. Fate is sending out an SOS to the multiverse.

The Just: Lex's daughter and Jakeem fuck up the world, but a world full of young albeit naively unprepared heroes stand ready to fight back.

Pax Americana: Adam has been shuffled off Earth (to appear in Superman Beyond 3D), The president's Keikaku might be undone, Peacemaker takes the fall. But while being tortured Peacmaker smirks and announces that it isn't over. There's no out and out invasion of this world.

Thunderworld: Captain Marvel and the Marvel family BTFO the Gentry. Literally ends with Captain Marvel throwing the Gentry into the trash

Guidebook: Nuclear Batman escapes with the Guidebook to the House of Heroes.

Mastermen is the curveball in that it doesn't seem to represent anything getting better.
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>>94521257
Nothing more pretentious than this exists.

You know what one of the greatest cancers infecting and destroying cape comics is? Metanarrative and commentary. It's so prolific and mundane now that it may as well be pointless. It has lost all charm and has become nothing more than empty, masturbatory fluff.

This shit in particular, this kind thing right here, is the least interesting type. Fucking Gwenpool does it better than this.
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>>94521328
>God forbid a story draw on the history of the medium

What the fuck are you talking about?

The medium has been a circlejerky mess of self-referencing for ages now. Morrison is one of the prime offenders.
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>>94521230
I find it hilarious how the Gentry are "2deep4u", and yet you will inevitably go on to praise some hack writers attempt at 'philodophy' as being "one of de best stories EVAR10!!!01". People such as you are one of the primary reasons why the industry has turned to such cancerous shit in recent years.
>>
>>94521230
>but he doesn't actually do anything with them that isn't a huge cliche.

Having the villains literally being the nihilistic thoughts that cause the plots of other comic books in the series is the opposite of cliche.
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Sinestro Corps had some hella good villains.
Kryb is my space horror waifu.
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>>94521393
>I find it hilarious how the Gentry are "2deep4u", and yet you will inevitably go on to praise some hack writers attempt at 'philodophy' as being "one of de best stories EVAR10!!!01".

All you can do to counter is stawman it up and make wild, unfounded assumptions.

I haven't really been truly impressed with any cape writing in years.

>People such as you are one of the primary reasons why the industry has turned to such cancerous shit in recent years.

You don't even know me.

I do know that you're a fan of the pointless, derivative meta commentary that has completely pushed aside any attempts by cape writers to do anything interesting, turning the game into a competition where writers try to out-meta each other in a masturbatory spiral of the same shit over and over.

The Gentry are no different from that crap Marvel peddled when they rebooted their multiverse recently. It's all trash.
>>
>>94521230
>represent the cliches that have reduced cape comics somehow

They represent archetypes, yes, but they satirize the modern event comic (it was published around the same time as Time Runs Out and the destruction of Ultimate Marvel and Multiverse-2 represent what was going on in Marvel. Someone on one of the Earths even describes "Major Studios" as having a "Final Genocide Ultimate Crossover").

It's a giant goosing of Hickman and comics where the heroes fight a giant cosmic threat and lots of people die and everyone is sad and then another giant cosmic threat shows up and tries to kill a lot of people rinse and repeat forever and ever all hail the Oblivion Machine all hail the Empty Hand and the anti-death equation. Morrison says this is bad because it's a failure of the imagination-an impoverishing of the imagination.

If all we can imagine are our heroes surviving threat after threat by the skin of their teeth, if all we can imagine are EVENTS instead of Adventures (its no mistake the Captain Marvel issue is named Thunderworld ADVENTURES and ends with Captain Marvel smiling and saying "Sounds like tomorrow's next adventure!) then we're in trouble.

>>94521362
>A Satire of Jonathan Hickman is pretentious

>Likes Gwenpool

I threw up in my mouth just a little.
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>>94520085

First off shit didn't start going down hill rapidly till around gen 3.

Second that is Golbat with one eye and no mouth.
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>>94521466
A-Are those..children stuck in that cage on its Back? When did Sinestro start to employ cosmic horrors?
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/co/ sucks.
Morrison is great.
The cancer eating our society is people seemingly trying their hardest to dislike as much as they can.
Everything has flaws, but focusing on flaws makes you miss the flawless aspects of a work.
>>
>>94521470
>Pointless

It was super topical. Secret Wars just came out. They couldn't ask to publish it at a better time.

>Derivative

Show me another group of badguys that attack superheroes through the story structure of their world.

>Completely pushed aside any attempts by cape writers to do anything interesting

Morrison produced some awesome worlds and concepts for others to play with and synthesized decades of cosmology into a flower-mandala.

>Turning into a competition where writers try to out-meta one another

You're thinking of Hickman and Ewing.

>The Gentry are no different from the crap Marvel peddled when they rebooted their multiverse.

If you can't see how they're different from Builders/Beyonders/God Doom then you are incapable of reading beyond the 6th grade level.
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>>94520423

>meta-narratives
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>>94521471
>It's a giant goosing of Hickman and comics where the heroes fight a giant cosmic threat and lots of people die and everyone is sad and then another giant cosmic threat shows up and tries to kill a lot of people rinse and repeat forever and ever all hail the Oblivion Machine all hail the Empty Hand and the anti-death equation. Morrison says this is bad because it's a failure of the imagination-an impoverishing of the imagination.

Morrison is one of the primary architects of this stuff. His attempts to satirize this are not only deeply ironic but incredibly poorly written. The Gentry and their associated plotline, for all the wink wink nudge nudge, are just another rinse repeat.

Hickman thought he was saying something clever about comics, too. In reality this same meta narrative has been played out over and over.

>likes Gwenpool

Not really. But god damn, it's actually better than this puerile nonsense, at least it has a few moments where it delivers some comedy. There is at least SOMETHING going on other than the writer desperately trying to show everyone how well he understands comics.
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>>94521595
>Brain-lets cook their brains trying to understand basic symbolism

Let me guess, public school right?
>>
>>94521583
>/co/ sucks.
Its not the entire board, just couple of overweight manchildren that hate Morrison for no real reason. They show up in every thread discussing him.
>>
>>94521393

>you're the reason

>no, you're the reason

Or maybe the reason is that comics are a dying medium and you're both faggots
>>
>>94521601
>incredibly poorly written.
Really?
Not "somewhat half baked"?
Tone down the hysteria, kiddo. It'll kill ya.
>>
>>94521593
>You're thinking of Hickman and Ewing.

Morrison is quite literally trying to out-meta Hickman in these stories. That is his aim, to show that he has the biggest meta dick and can get meta about meta.

It's fucking childish.
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>>94521645
>hey guys
>we're the bad guys that represent comics i don't like
>uh we'll say some menacing things
>then we lose
>it's okay because we're being self-aware!

Absolute drivel.

I wish I could put Morrison's brain in a time machine and take him back to a time when he wasn't obsessed with this crap.
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>>94521644
>Or maybe the reason is that comics are a dying medium and you're both faggots
Speak for yourself, autismo. Atleast I don't sperg out over the latest RAM episode.
>>
Not really. If you claim something is the best DC villain or greatest and they only appeared once in a mini one time then you are overhyping.
>>
>>94521705
But see, it's all perspective.
You seem to WANT to dislike it, because
>>94521351
and posts like it are valid reads.
>>
>>94521622

>shitposters shitpost

I understand it, I'm just simply tired of seeing it. It's overdone, now.
>>
>>94521601
>Morrison is one of the primary architects of this stuff.

No. Compare Seven Soldiers with its sense of adventure and expansion of the shadowed corners of the DC mythos to Hickman systemically killing the multiverse. Compare Final Crisis where Superman saves Lois and Wally meets Barry and the New Gods come back to life and everyone is kissing in the streets at the end to Hickman's Avengers ending with a helicarrier dropped on Cap and Iron Man as they fight.

Final Crisis and Seven Soldiers were not like other Event books. You're absolutely wrong.

>Just another rinse repeat

The storyline ends with the heroes breaking into the real world and helping Nix pay the rent. It's about getting off the Oblivion Machine carousel.

Show me an Event Comic that ends like that. Show me you casual piece of shit.

>It's actually better than this puerile nonsense
>There is SOMETHING going on

Your taste is shit. In the 90's you would be the type of meathead who would buy out the Image books and shitpost about how all the Vertigo books are trying to "out meta" each other.

Fuck you. I bet you read Ms. Marvel.
>>
>>94521729
This.
Multiversity was babies first meta.
The universe is decades long. Try reading something before 2011 and you'll find much better villains.
>>
>It's another "trigger Morrison-fags" thread
>>
>>94521729
>>94521781

>Missing the point of the Empty Hand this badly.

>>94521792
>It's another casuals can't read beyond the high school level

I bet you can't figure out the meaning of Watchmen either.
>>
>>94519558
The Gentry were underwhelming even as allegory. Rule one of artistic criticism: don't just do the exact thing you're criticizing and expect it to be good because you're doing it ironically.

Silly villains like this made up to chastise other writers about what their writer thinks is bad will never be good. They'll certainly never be as good as characters that speak to the very core of the human condition, like Lex Luthor, or villains that embody a truly horrifying concept, like Darkseid. The Gentry are "things I don't like: the OC" - ironically, for all they're supposed to say, they'll never have the narrative weight of real, fleshed-out characters made to do more than snipe at other writers.
>>
>>94521808

God, you people are easy to bait.
>>
>>94521816
But The Gentry work as satire and work as creepy cosmic evil. Morrison's been doing creepy cosmic evil since the Outer Church in Invisibles.
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>>94521503
Hint anything after 251 is gen 3 dumbfuck
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>>94521823
>I-I was pretending guys

Put up an argument or go back to reading Gwenpoole you Casual fuck.
>>
>>94521808
Why the fuck did you link me? I get the point of the concept. Doesn't change that he's a bad contender for OPs original topic. Read comics prior to New 52, please. Even earlier Morrison will do.
>>
Concepts like the Scissors en and Orqwith were somedamn good shit developed by Morrison, so I don't know what these artists are REEEEEEEEing about.
>>
>>94521808
My post didn't talk about their point or even them particularly. I was talking about you and criticizing your behavior. And your shitposting reply only furthers my criticism of you.
>>
>>94521879
What is this post implying?
Multiversity is just as good as Grant's Doom Patrol.
>>
>>94521816
Morrison wasn't arguing against cosmic final bosses retard. He was arguing that people let them win or let them curbstomp the heroes to bloody, useless pulps like they did to Earth-7.
>>
>>94521816
>But The Gentry work as satire and work as creepy cosmic evil.

They work as neither, at least in my opinion. The satire is tired and as cosmic horrors they rarely feel threatening, mostly because the writing is constantly prodding me with gleeful little reminders about how these things are more satire than character or concept, and this is oh so clever.

Maybe the next big cosmic villain should be the concept of this kind of satire come to strip away the character and nuance from the multiverse. Won't that be fun.
>>
>>94521927
Meant to quote >>94521842

Obviously.
>>
>>94521917
That they're not the best villains. And that they're not even the best Grant Morrison villains.
>>
>>94521927
You sound like you're fun at parties.
>>
Why cant Morrison fans understand thst some people just don't like whst he writes. We get it we just don't like it. Its not 2deep4u (which is always their come back when you say you don't like his work) but just not for me or whoever else dislikes it
>>
>>94521917
>What is this post implying?
You're a big boy who reads Morrison! Surely you are able to scroll up and read my previous posts, no?
I'm the only one who is even arguing the original topic anymore. Shut up about the Gentry, OP asked for other good villains. The fact that you freaked out and accused every dissenting opinion of "not getting it" beautifully portrais your average Morrison fan: ever so insecure about "getting it".
I'll say it one more time: read older comics. Read some KIrby and then youll find villains with actual substance.
>>
>>94521927
>The satire is tired

Literally who else has done it?

>As cosmic horror they rarely feel threatening

They didn't feel threatening in any of their manifestations? None of them? Not Super-Nazi's doubt or the Just Kid's utopian angst or just the raw power of destroying a multiverse?

None of them worked for you?

>Prodding me with gleeful little reminders about how these things are more satire than character or concept

Such as what? What did Morrison do to trigger your REEEEE META COMMENTARY BRAIN HURT autistic hatred?

>Strip away character and nuance from the multiverse

That was the point of the entire comic. You didn't get that with the whole "your imagination if impoverished' speech in Ultra or The Wizard's speech in Thunderworld?

Did you skim the books Anon? Be honest.
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>>94521988
>Why cant Morrison fans understand thst some people just don't like whst he writes
It's not about you disliking it, you fucking braindead simpleton. Its about you sperging out over it in Every.Single.Thread, discussing the man. If you want people to not treat you like your a fucking 12 year old brainlet, stop acting the part.
>>
>>94522058
>REEEEE META COMMENTARY BRAIN HURT
>only defense against actual critique is
Lol 2deep4u
Morrisonfags everyone
>>
>>94522075
You are the only one I see sperging out. The anon who disliked the gentry is giving valid reasons
>>
>>94521988
>Why can't Morrison fans understand that some people just don't like what he writes

Not liking it is fine. Not understanding its themes and then shitposting about how Gwenpoole is better makes you a Casual retard.

>>94522076
>Only defense against actual critique
>Ignores the rest of the text in the post

So you skimmed his post like you skimmed Multiversity.
>>
>>94522075
>>94522058
Don't imply that you're not instigating every round of shitflinging by insulting the dissenters collective intelligence. Fucking pompous cunt.
>>
>>94521987
Why? Because I don't like one thing? Whether we like one series of comics is not the bar by which we are measured, anon.

Invisibles was excellent, by the way. Morrison is not a bad writer, The Gentry are just a grossly uninspired idea, and honestly show him to be kinda petty. All I could think while reading Multiversity was that, rather than sniping at other writers by doing exactly what they're doing, why can't be just write something good? Adventures are good? Write a good adventure then, Morrison! Multiversity is a petty, hollow waste of time.
>>
>>94521988
dumb phoneposter
But you're still young. You can change. Morrison gets good when Blade Runner stops being le boring.
>>
>>94522115
I read every issue of multiversiality and hated it like I hated everything that wasnt his justice league by morrison
>>
>>94522058
>You didn't get that [...]?
There we go again. Can Morrisonfags go one post without being insecure about "getting it"?

>Such as what?
Literally every line from Gentry are either directed at the reader, or intended as meta comentary. They being fictional was reinforced on every panel.
>>
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>>94522099
>The anon who disliked the gentry is giving valid reasons
No he isn't. He's doing the trare marked "Post semi-intellectual response on a Morrison thread talking positing my own opinions as facts, and using it disguise my blind hate of Morrison whilst ignoring every other dissenting view aside from my own".
>>
>>94522147
>Write a good adventure then, Morrison!
But he did????
>>
>>94522157
So never?
>>
>>94522099
>Valid

He completely missed the point of Multiversity and what it had to say about fanboys, event comics, and the state of imagination in cape books. He took one look at Multiversity and saw it had metacommentary and his brain freezed up and he went back to Gwenpoole and his easy readers.
>>
>>94522186
Well, now we know you have bad opinions. Case closed.
>>
>>94522184
The only one ignoring dissenting views are you Morrison fans who cant comprehend someone doesn't like something so it had to be 2deep4them
>>
>>94522184
>ignoring every other dissenting view aside from my own".
Like you yourself are doing right now?
>>
>>94522203
Did you read his posts? He got it and explained he got it but that he didnt care for it. And neither do I.
>>94522217
I've only watched the theatrical cut so maybe the dc is better
>>
>>94522231
>who cant comprehend someone doesn't like something so it had to be 2deep4them
This was already addressed.
>>
>>94522203
>missed the point
Don't you get tired of assuming if someone disliked it, then it must mean they don't have as much IQ as you? Because this stance destroys all your credibility. Just face it man, it's possible to understand and yet dislike. You sound like a teenager praising the "depth" of Rick and Morty.
>>
>>94522147
>All I could think while reading Multiversity was that, rather than sniping at other writers by doing exactly what they're doing, why can't be just write something good? Adventures are good? Write a good adventure then, Morrison! Multiversity is a petty, hollow waste of time.
He writes many "good" things, you just seem blind to them. You act as if the whole 'Adventure!' Cliche hasn't been done to death a thousand times over already. What Morrison excels at is creating weird, alien settings and cosmic evils. Him writing an 'Adventure' story would not work out simply due to his unique writing style.
>>
>>94522272
No? You never really had a come back just more insisting people who dislike it are too dumb to get it
>>
>>94522174
>Can Morrisonfags

Maybe when you start arguing and stop shitposting brain-let.

>Directed at the reader

You mean in that one book that was supposed to be a fictional book in the "real" world?

That one book out of the entire mini?

>They being fictional was reinforced on every panel

I'm not sure what your read but it wasn't Multiversity.

>Meta commentary

The commentary came from their interactions with the world and what they were doing. The only time they get anywhere close to "lecturing" on metacommentary was in Ultra Comics.
>>94522275
Rick and Morty is Gwenpoole tier. Their share a target audience.
>>
>>94522058
>Literally who else has done it?

Everyone and their mum. These stories about the 'bad' things in comics using villains that represent the these bad things are done over and over again across Marvel and DC.

>None of them worked for you?

No, they didn't, because again, there was the constant reminder that this was all just Morrison telling me why he's smarter than Hickman. That's not to say some of these ideas couldn't be fun, but they didn't need all this wank associated with them.

>REEEEE META COMMENTARY BRAIN HURT

Really? All you can do is insist that if you don't like something, you must be stupid?

>That was the point of the entire comic.

Morrison was complaining about other writers doing things that are uncreative. That said, the story he made was equally uncreative and just as lacking in nuance. A story like that is not good because it 'knows' it is bad.

Seriously though, you're going to call me a brainlet no matter what, because you just can't handle the idea that a guy may have written something not up to par with his other works. So, whatever, continue to masturbate all over Morrison masturbating all over you.
>>
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This thread hurts.
If I listened to every long rant about how terrible something is on /co/, I'd be left with nothing to like.
There's something diseased in a community this blackly negative.
>>
>>94522308
Now you are dumb. But not because you don't get Morrison, but because you thought that anon was merely saying too deep 4 you.
>>
>>94522252
>Like you yourself are doing right now?
I would genuinely hear you out, if it wasn't for the fact that you came barging into the thread with your Morrison hate, and decided to say "FUCK OFF" to anyone who didn't share the same views as you like the average Redditor/Tumblrite. Honestly, you are the one acting like the pompous stuck up prick here.
>>
>>94521535
Yeah, She goes around kidnapping new born green lantern kids and if I remember correctly then brain washes them with her breast milk to believe she is their mom. In one of the green lantern books it shows that her back is a bunch of nipples. I never understood her endgame outside of kidnapping kids.
>>
>>94522324
>the story he made was equally uncreative and just as lacking in nuance.
Explain to me in detail why Pax Americana is a terrible disaster.
>>
>>94522297
>You act as if the whole 'Adventure!' Cliche

How can you call adventure a cliche? Are you lost so far up the ass of your argument that you're going to refer to the notion of a person going on a journey involving conflict or discovery of any kind a cliche?

There is a point of conceptual broadness where something is no longer a cliche, but can be filled with cliches.

And multiple detractors of The Gentry have noted that Morrison has written other great stuff. He should be doing that rather than throwing tantrums like Multiversity.
>>
>>94522147
>Write a good adventure then

Thunderworld, Guidebook, and the Main Story were heroic adventures throughout the multiverse.

You didn't actually read Multiversity, did you>?

>Sniping at other writiers

He was criticizing a way of writing cape stories. It's not like the Empty Hand turned out to be named Yonathan Hackman or anything.
>>
>>94522314
>Maybe when you start arguing and stop shitposting brain-let.
Mate, breaking news: you aren't arguing with only one person. I'm not the guy you keep callino Gwenfag. It's plain for anyone lurking that you respond to everyone with "it was too deep for you!"
Exactly like Rick and Morty fans saying "not everyone is smart enough for this nihilistic masterpiece."
>>
>>94522366
Except thats literally been your only response to people disliking his works
I get it. I get what he is going for. But it just missed the mark and bored me. I didn't care about any of those other worlds. I didnt care thst the villains were meta commentaries on events and other comic companies.
I understood it all. I just didn't find it thst pleasing to read.
>>
>>94522372
I never at any point claimed I hate Morrison. I also never told you to go fuck yourself because of your opinon.
>>
>>94522334
Honestly, it wasn't like this before. After shit like Gamergate and other things that put 4chan on the map, Redditors and Tumblr fags came out of the woodwork to infest this site with their brand of cancer. We used to be able to discuss shit like this without a bunch of sperms shitting up a thread because it triggered them.
>>
>>94522399
Its a shitty knockoff of an already crap story
>>
>>94522416
>and bored me
Morrison bored me too when I was younger.
I know you're young my dear phoneposter. Watch Blade Runner once every few months.
The first time you no longer find it boring, come back to Morrison.
>>
>>94522334
Except it isn't. /co/ only talks praise about Brad Bird, Mignola, Venture Bros etc. You're just cover your ears and whining because not everybody shares your opinion. Discussion iso healthy and should be encouraged.
Jeez, imagine being so arrogant you think people must be "actively searching for reasons to be negative" if they don't share your opinion
>>
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>>94522428
>post a thread claiming that The Gentry are the best DC villains
>people say they disagree and say why

WwwwhhHHYYyyy are these s-s-s-shitposters t-t-trolling my thweeaaaddddd!?
>>
>>94522439
wtf I hate Watchmen now
>>
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>>94522420
>I never at any point claimed I hate Morrison.
Half of the posts in this thread are mocking jabs towards Morrison and his fans, and autistic screeching about how "Bad" Morrison is. Most of them are same fags too.
>>
>>94522446
>thinks that people cant not like something
>doesn't understand thst people have different likes and dislikes
Why are people who like grant like this
>>
>>94522446
Nobody finds Blade Runner boring the first time they watch it. Also,

>le "everyone who disagrees with me is a dum-dum and probably underage"

Still going with that, eh?
>>
>>94522454
>Discussion
But there's no discussion. There is no dialogue or softening of stances or exchanging of ideas.
>>
>>94522475
>discussion in a thread asking for discussing on who's the best villain
>"they are doing autistic screeching!"
Seek help.
>>
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>>94522461
>WwwwhhHHYYyyy are these s-s-s-shitposters t-t-trolling my thweeaaaddddd!?
>REEEEEEEEEEE WHY AREN'T PEOPLE JERKING ME OFF AND GIVING ME UPBOATS!? IT MUST BE BECAUSE OF MORRISON REEEEEEEEEEE
Fixed that for you.
>>
>>94522501
He's underage because he's a phoneposter who doesn't capitalize or use punctuation.
>>
The gentry cant be the best dc villains because black manga and professor soon exist
>>
>>94522503
I see plenty of discussion about the nature of adventure and how much meta fiction is too much. Oh sorry, did you mean there's no exchange because you aren't managing to convince anyone?
>>
>>94519558
I read this comic while extremely high, and it blew my mind out my fucking ears. weed really does improve all of morrison's work
>>
>>94522324
>Stories about the bad things in comics using villains that represent the bad things

You are aware that this covers everything from Bane to Squadron Supreme right? You might as well say you don't like there being bad guys in capestories if you're going to cast your net this wide.

>Constant reminder that this was just Morrison telling me why he's smarter than Hickman.

He was criticizing a style. He had no more hate for Hickman that Alan Moore had for Julie Schwartz and Gardner Fox when he wrote Watchmen or Warren Ellis had for Jack Kirby when he wrote Planetary.

You're attributing a motive when none exist. He was talking about imagination and storytelling, not how he was smarter than Hickman

>The story he made was equally uncreative and lacking in nuance

None of the stories worked for you from Thunderworld to Pax to the Guidebook? None of them were creative or nuanced?

>A story like that is not good because it knows its bad

Are you telling me Thunderworld and Pax Americana and Mastermen were "purposefully written to be "so bad its good"" because that's what it sounds like you're implying.

>You're going to call me a brainlet no matter what

And a retard. And a casual. And a shitposter.
>>
>>94522518
Ah, so everyone who disagrees with you is from reddit, too? Nice.

You're really proving that Morrison is for intellectual souls here.
>>
>>94522503
Don't even bother. He will just call you a "Morrisonfag", and his fuckbuddies will suck him off for it.
>>
>>94522528
Or im lazy and taking a bath
>>
>>94522554
Yeah, you're right! He is right, there's no discussion! In respose to this we should just "not bother" and attack the posters instead of teaching by example.
>>
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>>94522416
>People were bored by Pax and Thunderworld
>>
>>94522545
>>94522548
This is no discussion. This is a bunch of underage retards jerking each other off, and acting smug because of their unified hate for Morrison. Now get bent, and drop dead.
>>
>>94522554
I agree, don't bother. These sub-humans are ill-fit to enjoy this masterpiece like us. One day, the sheeple will awaken and go back to whatever abyss they spawned.
>>
>>94522606
>there's no discussion
>actually here are a couple of examples of discussion
>I SAID THERE'S NO DISCUSSION!
>>
God why do people get so defense someone doesn't like you meta comic. People can just not like things you know
>>
>>94522586
There is no point in attempting to have discourse with one who has so blatantly shown that they do not wish to participate and exchange their own ideas. Instead, they would resort to blindly lashing out against all those who would oppose their views on how things are, and would resort to vitriol and hate to get their own way. I am sorry if that is what counts as "discussion" in your eyes.
>>
>wah wah wah, it's not the silver age anymore

yawn
>>
>>94522663
This lack of self-awareness is astounding. Where you rusing us all and just baiting?
>>
>>94522636
As had already been previously stated. It is not that we 'hate' those who dislike the comic, in fact we would be glad to have those who have their own views on things. It is when they start to try and make the threadecision boutique their own views on things, and shit on those who disagree with them, that people will start to take offence.
>>
>>94522324
>>94522399
SO AM I~
STILL WAITING~
>>
>>94522713
No one is shitting on you. We are shitting on the comic which you take to be an attack on you as well
>>
>>94522713
Go back and look at the first few posts. Nobody insulted anyone, they just stated why they disliked the Gentry.

Insults didn't start flying until you guys started accusing people of being too stupid to understand Morrison, calling people brainlets, etc. You responded to criticism with derision and insult.
>>
>>94522757
First post even said it people will defend it because it's morrison
>>
>>94522756
>>94522757
I shall bing up the first posts then.
>The Gentry, like everything Morrison does nowadays, are awful.
>Nothing more pretentious than this exists.

>You know what one of the greatest cancers infecting and destroying cape comics is? Metanarrative and commentary. It's so prolific and mundane now that it may as well be pointless. It has lost all charm and has become nothing more than empty, masturbatory fluff.

>This shit in particular, this kind thing right here, is the least interesting type. Fucking Gwenpool does it better than this.
Hmm, I don't see any non-insults here. All I see is a bunch of incessant whining about how "MORRISON SUCKS, META-NARRATIVE SUCKS REEEEEEEE", but let's keep going.
>>
>>94522842
Next couple posts.
>All you can do to counter is stawman it up and make wild, unfounded assumptions.

>I haven't really been truly impressed with any cape writing in years.

>You don't even know me.

>I do know that you're a fan of the pointless, derivative meta commentary that has completely pushed aside any attempts by cape writers to do anything interesting, turning the game into a competition where writers try to out-meta each other in a masturbatory spiral of the same shit over and over.

>The Gentry are no different from that crap Marvel peddled when they rebooted their multiverse recently. It's all trash.
More insults against "meta-commentary", and talk about how pessimistic this one poster is regarding cape-shit. He then goes on to other rant about everything being, and I quote "Trash". Doesn't sound like discussion to me, but let's see if it picks up.
>>
>>94522892
>>94522842
He insulted the comic not you or anyone defending the comic. You aren't the comic are you anon
>>
>>94522842
None of that is shitting on you. It's shitting on the comic.

You are the ones who took this personally and started stringing insults and strawmanning into your posts. Your opponents showed you increasingly less respect as the thread went on because you showed them none at all, immediately going for personal attacks and insinuating that only idiots would disagree with you.
>>
>>94522940
I think Morrison's metacommentary rotted his brain and he thinks he is the comic
>>
>>94522842
>>94522892
You aren't the comic, anon.

Nobody was shitting on you there. If you choose to take this kind of thing personally it says more about you and your position than the people you're quoting.
>>
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>>94522892
>meta-narratives

>Morrison is one of the primary architects of this stuff. His attempts to satirize this are not only deeply ironic but incredibly poorly written. The Gentry and their associated plotline, for all the wink wink nudge nudge, are just another rinse repeat.

>Hickman thought he was saying something clever about comics, too. In reality this same meta narrative has been played out over and over.

>Not really. But god damn, it's actually better than this puerile nonsense, at least it has a few moments where it delivers some comedy. There is at least SOMETHING going on other than the writer desperately trying to show everyone how well he understands comics.
We get some more whining about how "Bad" Morrison is, even criticizing his writing without giving any roper examples, and then he goes on to rant about how much "better" Gwenpool is, showing an unironic enjoyment of the stuff. I still see no actual discussion, but we shall still press on.
>>
>>94522324
>>94522399
Are you going to stop posturing and actually answer a question or not?
>>
>>94521593
>It was super topical.
Not in 2008 when it was originally pitched.

You keep wanting to make this into some Morrison vs Hickman company war BS but Anon, Hickman and Morrison are buds. Hickman was at Morrison's own convention as a guest ffs.
>>
>>94522986
I already said it. It was a shitty knockoff of an already crap book
>>
>>94523001
You're not who I asked though, young lad.
>>
>>94522909
>>94522940
>>94522960
>>94522964
What you lot don't seem to realize is that this isn't about the comic. I'm looking for where "actual discussion" took place, and so far I have seen none. Anyway, moving on...
>Or maybe the reason is that comics are a dying medium and you're both faggots

>Morrison is quite literally trying to out-meta Hickman in these stories. That is his aim, to show that he has the biggest meta dick and can get meta about meta.

>It's fucking childish.

>Absolute drivel.

>I wish I could put Morrison's brain in a time machine and take him back to a time when he wasn't obsessed with this crap.
More cropping on Morrison, and no real reason for *Why*, other than raw hate for his current work. There is also still a lack of actual discourse and exchanging of ideas, but we might find some further down. Hopefully.
>>
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>>94523051
Now we continue on, in hopes of finding some true discussion here.
>This.
>Multiversity was babies first meta.
The universe is decades long. Try reading something before 2011 and you'll find much better villains

>It's another "trigger Morrison-fags" thread

>The Gentry were underwhelming even as allegory. Rule one of artistic criticism: don't just do the exact thing you're criticizing and expect it to be good because you're doing it ironically.

>Silly villains like this made up to chastise other writers about what their writer thinks is bad will never be good. They'll certainly never be as good as characters that speak to the very core of the human condition, like Lex Luthor, or villains that embody a truly horrifying concept, like Darkseid. The Gentry are "things I don't like: the OC" - ironically, for all they're supposed to say, they'll never have the narrative weight of real, fleshed-out characters made to do more than snipe at other writers.

>God, you people are easy to bait.
More needless crap being thrown against Morrison without any true reason as to why, and its still a massive derail from actual discussion.
>>
>it doesn't count as discussion if you didn't like the comic or morrison
>also I'll conveniently leave out people becoming increasingly hostile as a result of me spamming "brainlets" over and over and pretend it just sort of happened out of the blue
>>
>>94520768
That sounds lewd.
>>
>>94523233
People were becoming hostile just from the mention of "Morrison" in the thread, which you seem to conveniently ignore. Far before the mention of "brainlets". Anyway, continuing on.
>They work as neither, at least in my opinion. The satire is tired and as cosmic horrors they rarely feel threatening, mostly because the writing is constantly prodding me with gleeful little reminders about how these things are more satire than character or concept, and this is oh so clever.

>Maybe the next big cosmic villain should be the concept of this kind of satire come to strip away the character and nuance from the multiverse. Won't that be fun.

>Why cant Morrison fans understand thst some people just don't like whst he writes. We get it we just don't like it. Its not 2deep4u (which is always their come back when you say you don't like his work) but just not for me or whoever else dislikes it

>Don't imply that you're not instigating every round of shitflinging by insulting the dissenters collective intelligence. Fucking pompous cunt.

>Invisibles was excellent, by the way. Morrison is not a bad writer, The Gentry are just a grossly uninspired idea, and honestly show him to be kinda petty. All I could think while reading Multiversity was that, rather than sniping at other writers by doing exactly what they're doing, why can't be just write something good? Adventures are good? Write a good adventure then, Morrison! Multiversity is a petty, hollow waste of time.
These posts do well to complain boutique how Morrison's current work "sucks", and how he and his ideas are bland, and meaningoess. This is royally the closest to actual discussion I have seen so far.
>>
>>94523314
>Don't imply that you're not instigating every round of shitflinging by insulting the dissenters collective intelligence. Fucking pompous cunt.
Thanks for finally acknowledging my post. Even though you don't even address the issue.
>>
>>94523437
I didn't address it because it was basically the same white noise as nearly all the other posts I listed. Baseless shitflinging and insults, which is the exact same thing that you were accusing me of.
>No one is shitting on you. We are shitting on the comic which you take to be an attack on you as well

>Go back and look at the first few posts. Nobody insulted anyone, they just stated why they disliked the Gentry.

>Insults didn't start flying until you guys started accusing people of being too stupid to understand Morrison, calling people brainlets, etc. You responded to criticism with derision and insult.
Honestly, /v/ is better at staying on topic than you fucks.
>>
ABANDON THREAD!

THE GENTRY HAVE TAKEN OVER!

DO NOT CONTINUE TO POST!
>>
>>94523665
>Near Satan Trips
Tu Late. Yu Have Failed. We Are Here Now.
>>
>>94519558
Empty Hand and The Gentry could easily be final boss tier enemies. The one thing you need all your resolution, all your willpower, strength and hope to defeat.
>>
>>94521470
Hello there, Intellectron.
>>
>>94521705
I think the point of Multiversity was how overplayed it was. It was a crisis of crisises and a meta-narrative threat, and what's threatening to storytelling as a living medium? Monotony. Hence, the Gentry, i.e. gentrification. Everything is made to the same standard and specifications that infect creativity itself. You can't honestly say it's not on point, and the idea of a story trying to take down bad storytelling itself is a fun idea, especially moreso when the ending is optimistic and ever-continuing.
>>
>>94521351

I mean, a theatre full of Nazis got blown up, so unless you're from /pol/ that seems like a happy ending...
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