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"Iron Fist arrives with more baggage than its creators intended.

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Thread replies: 247
Thread images: 24

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"Iron Fist arrives with more baggage than its creators intended. Dogged by accusations of cultural appropriation (was it really a good idea to cast a white man as the protector of a mythical Asian culture?)," - The Daily Dot


"Imagine an “Iron Fist” in which an Asian actor with a great deal of presence and real fighting chops (which Jones lacks) plays a man trying to reclaim his business empire from a group of white characters who don’t trust him and underestimate his skills." - Variety

"Subtext. Matt Murdock is driven by his Catholic guilt, Jessica Jones by traumatic assault and consent issues, Luke Cage by America's multi-century history of imperiled black masculinity. Iron Fist arrives in a deep hole amid concerns about its curly-haired, blonde protagonist appropriating Asian culture, but the bigger problem ends up being that he's barely even appropriating." - Hollywood Reporter

"And let me be clear: Iron Fist’s problems with its portrayal of Asian cultures and Asian-Americans are embedded throughout every episode. It’s just that its problems with delivering exposition, crafting consistent characters, and even basic dialogue writing run right alongside.

Sure, this is a show where a white male character explains how to punch to an Asian-American" - Polygon

"He’s still a privileged white member of the 1 percent drawing power from a fictionalized Asian culture, destined to save his corner of New York from evil. Given that he’s still the one person capable of taking up the Iron Fist mantle, it’s hard to decouple his whiteness from his elevated position." - The Verge

"The obvious answer to making Danny more relevant today was to make him Asian-American. Indeed #AAIronFist was a real campaign supported by Geeks of Color ... anyone who knows a person of color or who has struggled with their identity knows this is a cop-out." - Heroic Hollywood.
>>
>Sure, this is a show where a white male character explains how to punch to an Asian-American
I seriously don't see the issue with this. Why wouldn't a guy who had been training under absolute masters of the craft for nearly his entire life be better at martial arts than some asian in the US?
>>
I knew itd be bad but... Jesus Christ
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>>90557052
CAUSE ALL ASIANS AND ONLY ASIANS KNOW KUNG FU REEEEEEEE
>>
If I have to read about this one more time, Im gonna go culturally appropriate Asian culture and commit seppku
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>>90557052
Expecting Asians to automatically know martial arts is racist in itself
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>Virtue-signalling '''''''''critics'''''''''' try to explain a character they've never read
Will they ever learn?
>>
Why do we keep letting them get away with it?
>>
So we're all just going to ignore the fact that people have also criticized the acting, the lack of fight scenes, shit pacing, no respect for the source material, unnecessary changes like Colleen and Danny being a thing and no costume or weird fu magic shit? No? Okay.
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>>90557040
Asked this in another Iron Fist thread and didn't get a response, but was there any shrieking when Karnak was cast as Asian?
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>>90557072
Its as bad as a White guy teaching an Asian Kung Fu! Am I right???
>>
>>90557091
Mate I always knew that it would be all those things. This show was going to be shit from the start.
But that doesn't make these virtue signalling non-criticisms any less bullshit
>>
>>90557091
Hey, Im not saying the show is good m8. But look at all this shit, its a problem.

You cant just say "Shows bad, let them make up whatever nonsense they want" cause itll spill over.
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>>90557040
Oh look. A Latino kid who enjoys Karate and uses it to fight! CULTURAL APPROPRIATION!
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>>90557091
All these marvel shows suck imo.

Marty Murdock is a fucking pussy and so were his two friends (everyone else was cool).

Jessica was a baller but everyone she associated with (besides Luke) should drink poison.

Luke was alright, but too infallible and I wanted more Mahersala Ali / Mama Mable shit.

This gon be weeby... but with that said I find these rage related criticisms in pretty bad taste.
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>>90557093
Fucking nobody cares about the Inhumans, as it should be.
Except Chloe "Daisy Johnson" Bennett for the waifufags
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>>90557040
>>
Cuck media strikes again
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>>90557194
lewd
>>
>>90557101
Yeah but some people on here are acting as if the whole 'REEEEEEE DANNY'S NOT ASIAN REEEEEE' thing is the one and only criticism of the show and I'm sorry but that is bullshit.

IMO this dude has it right even though I actually did enjoy DD S1, Some parts of JJ, and the first half of Luke Cage/Cottonmouth >>90557141

Iron Fist couldn't even get the main actor right, he's a pretty bland actor, and Marvel fucked up hard with their Showrunner choice, he oversaw one of the most hated series finales in the medium and there should've been huge warning flags BEFORE the reviews came out when he said that we wouldn't see Danny in his costume and downplayed the things that made Iron Fist fun.

I get it, people on twitter/tumblr are doing the absolute most, but Marvel Studios, and yes despite what that other posts said, this is on Feige too, fucked up hard and they deserved to get called out on this.
>>
>>90557804
Boi, havnt you read
>>90557101
>>90557106
>>
I just wanna see one review that narrows it beyond white and Asian.
Like say American, and say a country in asia.
Actually idk which kinda mystic culture Iron Fist is about.
I wanna guess Chinese or Tibet.
>>
>>90557052
Because genetic memory is real and is activated in the members of each race upon their feet touching US American soil for the first time.
>>
>>90557106
>its a problem.
Not really, and /co/ is to discuss the material itself, not bitching about biased reviewers' politics. You want /tv/.
>>
>>90558067
/Co/ is about anything Comics related, and this is.

>It won't spill over
Id be ahocked if Marvel doesnt make him Asian now when theyve changed others for literally no reason
>>
>>90557804
>Marvel Studios, and yes despite what that other posts said, this is on Feige too, fucked up hard and they deserved to get called out on this.
Marvel Studios had nothing to do with this though.
>>
>>90557052
OP cut off the rest, where it's mentioned that the Asian-American in question is an expert in a real-world martial art and runs a dojo.

Of curse, this being Polygon, their only genuine complaint is that Danny (and his creators) are white.
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>>90557040
Reading the reasons these cunts hate Iron Fist gives me hope that's it'll be good.
>>
If he was Asian, they'd bitch about the "Asians know kung-fu" stereotype.
>>
>>90557091
Now that the pendulum has turned Marvel shills now want us to defend their shitty iron fist tv shows from the very audience they created.
>>
>>90558972
It's not, don't force yourself to like it just to "Spite" sjw cucks.
>>
Cultural appropriation isn't real
>>
>>90559545
Yes it is, fuck everyone who burns sage to cleanse their house.
>>
>>90559545
I usually hate when /co/ goes on SJW hunts, but yeah, this is 100% bullshit.
>>
>>90559545
Yes it is, it's just not as big of a deal as some people think it is. So what if a white dude likes Asian cultures? Or a black guy wants to be Canadian? Humankind will eventually be United under one overarching bland and grey culture anyway, so who cares what people do in the meantime?
>>
>>90559538
Course nobody really knows because its not aired yet.

They already staked their position "If you don't hate this as much as we do then you're a Nazi."

Money on the other complaints they salt their reviews with being overly vague and uninformative.

Because that's the game. Vaguness when you can't critique something fairly be that good or bad.
>>
>>90558105
Reviews aren't comics or comic adaptations.

>quoting nobody
>making assunptions like it matters in any way
>>
>>90559545
It's like that Kimono shit, where white people were bitching about the Japanese Kimono exhibit that no Japanese person cared about, oblivious to the fact that Kimonos were "appropriated" from China.
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>>90557141
>Jessica was a baller

I didn't know it was possible to have this fucking awful of taste
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>>90557040
Imagine how much time and butthurt it took to assemble all these quotes.

Imagine how much of a persecution complex someone must have to see bad reviews for a mediocre TV show and think "this is a racist conspiracy against ME!"

Have fun playing victim, OP.
>>
>>90559673
The more ironic part is that Japanese spend 99% of their life cosplaying as white people.
>>
>>90559692
Anon, I really advice you to stay away from this threads if you don't want to look like a butthurt manchild yourself. You're not doing yourself any favors by fishing for (you)s in this waters, love yourself a little more, mate.
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>>90557040
I would turn it around: Jessica Jones got better reviews than it deserved because of its politically correct content, Iron Fist doesn't have that so its mediocrity is more obvious.

Doctor Strange had the same plot as Iron Fist, plus the "whitewashing" thing with the Ancient One, and it didn't affect the reviews let alone its success.

SJ clickbait is annoying but I don't think it's causing the bad reviews in itself.
>>
>>90557052
Because they lack reading the source material or just being an even lazier fuck and searching iron fist on wikipedia. Still going to watch it even if I get labelled as a nazi by literal whos because I want to be entertained
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>>90559545
>Cultural appropriation isn't real
Yeah it is, just ask any black person.
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>>90559712
Japanese people are fair skinned though. asian features but they don't need to "cosplay" to look white.
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>>90559510
What
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Why did they elect to remove Danny's desire to seek revenge by having him not know who killed his parents? Why did they think dramatically altering his motivation to return home would lead to good results? Did they do it solely because keeping him in the dark let them pad out the series for more episodes?
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>>90559798

You're right, blacks do a lot of cultural appropriating.
>>
>>90559545
>>90559571
>>90559632
>>90559644
>>90559798

The problem is that what constitutes a "culture" and what doesn't isn't going to be universal. Plus, where does one culture end and the other start so that it can be accurately stated that one is "stealing culture" from another is objectively impossible.

The only way of going around that is by treating people inhabiting one place and/or having a certain set of physical traits, as if they were all the same. That way, you can openly scream, "The Whites are stealing culture from The Asians."

>Yeah it is, just ask any black person
Or you could ask Antonín Dvořák's ghost.
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>>90559712
>White people and Japanese have to dress differently
What? Them dressing the same isn't evidence of any kind of appropriation. It just shows you to be racist.

>>90559571
>You can't do something because someone else did it first
That's how you sound. It's that what you intended to say?
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Cultural Appropriation isn't just "Lets take elements of another culture because we like it".

It's "Lets take elements of another culture because we like it, demonize the originators of these elements, divorce them from these elements, and the ultimately claim these elements were our own inventions."
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>>90559861
Whatever you say honky, hope you enjoy the rock n roll and subsequently all other music that came from Rythmn and blues.
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>>90559972
The Japanese literally wear western style clothing in everyday life, it's not the same by happenstance, it's the same because the Japanese (like most of the world) have adopted western clothing as default everday wear. They literally call it "western clothing" too.
It came about with he general westernization of Japanese society during the Meiji restauration period, and was reinforced by American influences post-WW2.

>racist
Wut?
>>
>>90559972
>You can't do something because someone else did it first
He didn't say anything i
Of the like tho, he said fuck white people who burn white sage to cleanse their house and honestly I agree with him.
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>>90559989
any examples of this? I ain't American so I wouldn't know.
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>>90560058
Tattoos, most music, and cuisine.
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>>90560058
Rock and Roll.
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>>90560058
Electric guitar comes to mind.
First recorded instance was by a black guy but for the longuest time Elvis was considered the inventor of the electric guitar.

Rock and roll on a larger scale.
>>
>>90560013

Oh right I forgot, white people appropriated all music.
>>
>>90560058

WE
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>>90560100
>most music
Doesn't that stem from the retarded argument that first recorded instances of music were in Africa or the Middle East so anything musical that comes after that is cultural appropriation?
Because that's not how logic works, really.
>cuisine
Oy vey, there goes that can of worms.
>>
>>90560123
>Elvis was considered the inventor of the electric guitar
Was he really? To my knowledge he was only known as the King of Rock n' Roll, I've never known anyone dumb enough to think he invented it considering nobody thought of him as an inventor.

>>90560123
>>90560120
Yeah I can see those to be honest.
>>
>>90559989
Those are entirely separate issues, though. You can't just force causality on them by lumping them together under a single term.

>>90560040
Right. I'm agreeing that western clothes have become the accepted norm in many parts of the world. How is that cultural appropriation, though? Is using Arabic numerals outside of the place where they originated also cultural appropriation under that logic?
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>>90560165
>Oy vey, there goes that can of worms.
If anything ethnic groups are more pissed that we create some bastardization of their dishes sell it for a profit and still claim that it's part of their culture despite it being nothing like it.
>>
>>90560136
Not all music, just all music that came from Black people.
>so Rock and Roll
>and everything that Rock gave birth to.
>>
>>90560051
What's culturally wrong with burning sage to clean one's house if you're white?
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>>90560181
>I've never known anyone dumb enough to think he invented it
Well now you've met me. Not sure where I read that (I think a comic about rock and roll history) but I can't find anything online that coroborates.
So nevermind that.
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>>90560242
Cause you're not a native american shaman so quit that shit.
>>
Why is cultural appropriation a bad thing? Isn't basically any culture that isn't completely isolated going to appropriate compatible aspects of nearby cultures that they come into contact with? Isn't that how new cultures are born? Isn't it basically an inevitability, or perhaps even the point of having a multicultural society?
>>
>>90560222
>If anything ethnic groups are more pissed
So everyone in an ethnic group views things the same way you do? That's pretty presumptuous thinking on your part.

>>90560236
Find me someone who thinks that rock doesn't have any roots in black music and I will personally correct their misconceptions.
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>>90560216
I'm not a specialist by any means, I'm just pointing out that other cultures have adopted traits of Western culture (of which fashion is one) and nobody seems to give a shit.
How is adopting a style of fashion different from adopting a style of music?

And yeah you can narrow it down to >>90559989 , which seems fine by me, but that invalidates all the dumb arguments about kimonos being for Japanese only or twerking being reserved to blacks. Which was kind of my point, if that's cultural appropriation, then everyone does it and it's fine.
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>>90560236

So wait, it's a good thing they were appropriated?
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>>90559989
>It's "Lets take elements of another culture because we like it, demonize the originators of these elements, divorce them from these elements, and the ultimately claim these elements were our own inventions."
Ah, see, now that's something else.

And like >>90560058 suggests, it's probably something more tied to American society than anything. In that regard, probably the "Melting Pot" aspect of the US.
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>>90560279
>Only native Americans should burn sage
Das raycis
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>>90560222

Why get pissy about it? Doesn't a lot of that "bastardization" occur because people from those countries immigrated here, then altered their traditional food in response to local norms or due to lacking all the proper ingredients? Isn't that the whole point behind the "melting pot" of America?
>>
>>90560317
>So everyone in an ethnic group views things the same way you do?
Notice how I said "WE" bastardize ethnic dishes, I just bring it up because the number of mexicans that I've heard complain about "mexican" food over here. I'm not talking immigrants, they fucking hate Taco Bell over there.
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>>90560222
And they tend themselves to forget how bastardized those cuisines have been trhoughout history to begin with.
I mean a lot of Italian cuisine relies on tomato and French cuisine on potatoes, both new world exclusives. Some indian and japanese dishes also include European or New World elements.

And let's not even get into spice.
>>
>>90557040
That's that what you get for watching live action superhero shows.
They bring nothing good to /co/, only /tv/ posters and tumbrlinas.
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>>90557804
Marvel Studios is not the same thing as Marvel Television. Marvel Studios is run by Kevin Feige and Marvel Television is run by Jeph Loeb. Kevin Feige cut ties with everything that is run by Isaac Perlmutter (comics, television and other media) and reports to Alan Fine, head of the live action Disney movies division.
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>>90560317
>Find me someone who thinks that rock doesn't have any roots in black music
Not really the burdening question at hand. The fact is that rock and roll was culturally appropriated from black people.
>which means cultural appropriation is real
>it's not just something white girls created on tumblr to bitch about
>>
>>90560236
See the issue with that criteria is that rock influenced literally everything after it, but wasn't the only influence on most of those.
>>
>>90560372

Who is "we"?
>>
>>90560352
It's not enough you steal their lands but now you're stealing from their spiritual body, the same spiritual body that the US government tried to trample out.
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>>90559545
Sort of but it's a non-issue.

I get why people want to keep informed of where the culture they're taking after comes from, what the roots are and why people might think 'hey you're not really appreciating this', but at the end of the day, culture is emergent. It comes from within, not without, and in a lot of ways 'cultural appropriation' is just another word for the way in which culture evolves.

It's why traditionalists thinking that the state should enforce culture is dumb.
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>>90560305
Pretty much. I think it's one of the most sneakily racist terms around.
Especially since it sometimes comes with a discourse that tries to claim literally everything good comes from one race and all the others did was steal their shit.
>>
>>90560305
Congratulations, you have mastered the lessons of World History 101, something people who decry "cultural appropriation" have not yet accomplished.

>>90560320
It seems our only disagreement was over the term "cultural appropriation" itself. Ideas and influences spread from one culture to another. That's basic human nature. So in my opinion, it doesn't need a special label, and it certainly isn't an issue that sjws are justified in complaining about.
>>
>>90560352
>dad is Lakota
>married a white bitch
>we all pop out the womb with white skin and asian features
>dad takes us to rez to become part of tribe
>have a 1/16th blooded motherfucker with beads and a fucking feather in his hair tell me I'm a mutt and don't belong
Assholes give too many fucks anon. It's a cross cultural phenomena.
>>
>>90560371
Anon, I'm gonna completely honest with you. Mexicans kind of hate mexican-americans and their culture.

>>90560393
I think when people say bastardization they mean what fast food does, no one is opposed to fusion cooking and improvement upon a recipe from another country, but the homogeanization and cheapening of dishes for profit isn't something most cultures like to be done with theirs.
>>
>>90560371
It's not even unique to the US.
Meet Scotland's traditional dish: Chicken Tikka Masala
>On a typical dark, wet Glasgow night, a bus driver coming off shift came in and ordered a chicken curry. He sent it back to the waiter saying it's dry. At the time, Dad had an ulcer and was enjoying a plate of tomato soup. So he said why not put some tomato soup into the curry with some spices. They sent it back to the table and the bus driver absolutely loved it. He and his friends came back again and again and we put it on the menu.
>>
>>90560372
>go to somewhere new and exotic
>only eat food that's supposed to be the same as back home
For what purpose?
>>
>>90560371
This spaghetti and meatballs we'rr talking about here. Someone took my culture, changed well enough that it's no longer part of my culture then sold it as my culture.
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>>90560305
Exactly. I understand why people want to inform others of the significance of the cultural artefacts they're adopting, and I get why Native Americans might get annoyed over things like headdress, but for the most part what's described as 'cultural appropriation' is simply what happens when different cultures integrate, which is something that should probably be celebrated by most of the people complaining.
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>>90560508

>Mexicans kind of hate mexican-americans and their culture.

And? I'm not really understanding the point here.

Mexican-Americans aren't Mexicans, and their food is not typically traditional Mexican cuisine. Italian-Americans aren't Italians, and their food is not typically traditional Italian cuisine. And so on and so forth.
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>>90559989
I agree that that's bad, but I see a lot of semantic trickery around the term. The meaning and weight of the second is developed but then the term is used on things that are examples of the first.

Of course, you're already deceiving yourself when you think in terms of 'we'. Culture is emergent, it's a generalized image that we get from groups of individuals. It's not like [X ethnic group] convenes to dastardly steal ideas from [Y ethnic group].
>>
>>90557101

>virtue signalling non-criticisms

Man, my wife is Asian and a shitload of her geeky friends are Asian and a lot of them are pretty pissed. It's not like these complaints are pure white guilt.
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>>90560539
But peas can't touch the carrots anon! PEAS CANT TOUCH THE CARROTS!
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>>90559845
>Did they do it solely because keeping him in the dark let them pad out the series for more episodes?

ding ding ding
>>
>>90560589

>Not mixing your carrots and peas directly into the mashed potatoes.

Shakin' my head to be entirely honest famiglia.
>>
>>90560532
You're Chinese complaining about the Italians?
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>>90560532
They sold it as food.
Nobody buys American """""pizza""""" because it's Italian, they buy it because they like the taste.
>>
>>90560589
but Anon, peas and carrots and potatoes all mix in our bellies
YFW Billy was actually referring to the fact that we all die and decompose no matter what
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>>90559734
I read JJ reviews that were basically just lists of the ways the show had the right politics.Then casually mentioning that it stretched one plot over 13 episodes in a repetitive and tiresome way.
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>>90560608
>mixing anything into the creamy buttery garlic glory of mashed potatoes
Absolutely Disgusting
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>>90560586
What are they pissed about?
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>>90560586
>my wife
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>>90560100
>Tattoos, most music, and cuisine.
Wut?
Tattoos have been recorded in many cultures across the world long before they had contact with each other
>Music and food
Nigger are you serious?
Every culture has both and has since before the stone age.
>>
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>>90560639
Apparently you mix garlic with it you filthy heathen.
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>>90560586
What does your wife's son think about it?
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>>90560372
So... They don't like how Americans are cooking traditionally Mexican dishes? That's fine, but how is that evidence of cultural appropriation?

>>90560396
>Being inspired by something and wanting to do it as well is "cultural appropriation"
Is this what you are saying? Because that's not what the sjw crowd means when they say it.

>>90560438
How does white people burning sage have any effect on Native American culture whatsoever? Most of the people who do aren't even going to interact with the authentic culture in their lifetimes.
>>
>>90560123
I don't think anybody thinks that Elvis invented the electric guitar.
The issue most people have with Elvis is that many of his early hits were covers of older songs that people attributed to him.
>>
>>90560305
Because you're taking my culture and turning it into a commodity. Growing up kids only knew my culture through taco bell, they thought mexican culture started and ended with the taco and to add insult to injury it's not even a good fucking taco.
>>
>>90560586
>wife is Asian
I hate to break it to you, but a daki is not your wife.
Someone had to make this joke, fuck you
>>
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>>90560702
>Post mentions garlic
>Used pic of nutmeg
>>
>>90560728
That's just says the kids were/are retarded. That's more American education's fault than anything else.
>>
>>90560728
What those kids never watched Speedy Gonzalez or something?
>>
>>90560372
TexMex came from Mexicans in the southwest adapting their cooking methods to better suit American palettes so they could get more customers. Most Mexicans don't like it because it's way milder than they're used to.

It's similar to how Japanese versions of American sweets taste "off" because they're so much less sweet. Japan isn't used to the super-sweet flavors that Americans are, just like Americans aren't used to Mexico's excessive use of spice.
>>
>>90560728

>Because you're taking my culture and turning it into a commodity.

Can you say with a straight face that your culture doesn't do the same thing with other cultures?
>>
>>90560747
Because nutmeg is okay, garlic isn't, it overpowers the potato where nutmeg enhances it.
>>
>>90560236
>and everything that Rock gave birth to.
In that case Rock and Roll was made by white people since it was inspired by earlier musical genres from europe.
Blues and Jazz were just taking a different spin on older styles of music.
You can't just draw an arbitrary line and say anything that comes after this deserves no recognition because it's built upon ideas that came before it because everything including those older works are equally based on what came before.
Music was invented by neaderthals, fucking humans stop stealing credit
>>
>>90560611
Spaghetti and meatballs isn't Italian, which kinda proves the point. Cultural appropriations isn't the melting pot that americans like to talk about but legit not understanding the culture.
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>>90557040

it's funny how Asian-Americans want so so so bad to get on board the oppression train but they literally make more money than white americans, have higher IQs than white americans, have more professional jobs than white americans, suffer crime less than white americans, ect ect
>>
>>90560728
Why not make an effort to actually teach about your culture instead of bitching about it then?
The fact of the matter is that you should be turning your culture into a commodity as well but other people are better salesmen than you are.
>>
>>90560782
>mfw Kareem Abdul-Jabbar culturally appropriated a Voltaire quote that illustrates your post

Although the argument is that blues and jazz were heavily influenced by traditional African music. Pretending it wasn't influenced at all by white US culture is silly though.
>>
>>90560787
Nobody goes to Taco Bell because they like Mexican culture. They just want to eat Tacos. "Mexican" is just how that kind of food is categorized, because it's easier than having to come up with a politically correct term for "tacos and burritos".
>>
>>90557052
jesus these people are unreal, also kung fu is trash so they would need too learn how to box from a westerner
>>
>>90560787

I'm still not really understanding the harm here. Cultures grow and evolve by adopting things from other cultures. Italian-Americans adapting Italian food until it becomes its own unique thing doesn't suddenly prevent native Italians from continuing to cook traditional Italian food in Italy.
>>
>>90560711
It's just tacky as hell.
>>
>>90560847
You underestimate the mystical Asian arts.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S19VsB7__v0
>>
>>90559545
*glares*

could you literally fuck off??????!!!?!?!?!?!
>>
>>90560870
lol I remember this video from the old bullshido days, two out of shape guys with no idea how to fight pawing at each other like starving raccoons
>>
>>90560787
I think that the issue is that the problem of cultural appropriation isn't that elements from different cultures are used, it's that they aren't recognized as gestalts.

There's not a damn thing wrong with combining the recipes of two different cultures if it tastes nice. But you should recognize where it comes from. Trying to stop people from appropriating culture or spinning it as a necessarily bad thing is foolish; it's literally how culture develops and evolves. Getting people to recognize that they do it is fine and in some cases a good idea.
>>
>>90560811
>MAYBE IT'S YOUR FAULT THAT RACISM EXIST.
I can't win for what in America.
>>
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>one post mentions cuisine as cultural appropriation
>the thread now is entirely about food
I told you niggas it was a can of worms.
>>
>>90560821
Once again it's the Mexican responsibility that the white person was just too lazy to do.
>>
>>90560927
Like someone pointed out earlier, Japan refers to all cake-style confectioneries as "western sweets", even though most of them taste nothing like any sweets found in the west. That's just what they're called. I don't think anyone in the west really gives a damn, outside of getting a chuckle when Asians taste real western sweets for the first time.
>>
>>90560927
Well what then, should Miley Cyrus have made a speech about African dances and their influence on modern American dances like twerking before making a fool of herself at the VMAs?
You know what, nevermind, actually that would have improved her performance.

But in a general sense I don't want to see a fucking disclaimer every time a white guy screams "kiai" or a black chick is cast in a cape movie.
>>
>>90560123
Pretty sure that was Les Paul who invented it, or at least had a lot of influence on the design.
>>
>>90560927
No the problem is that cultural apportion excludes people from the very same culture you're appropriating. Take Kung fu the tv show for example, You're all David Carradibes in this situation.
>>
>>90561026
>You're all David Carradibes in this situation.
Speak for yourself. I'm not white.
>>
>>90560811
>it's funny how Asian-Americans want so so so bad to get on board the oppression train
Do they? Most of the complaints in this instance are from whites.

At worst from Asian-American SJWs you get them bitching about how they are considered a token "good" race and how that is racist.
>>
>>90560833
Now I'm no musical history expert but IIRC wern't jazz and blues created by mixing certain african musical stylings with western instruments and traditional 3/4 measure that was common in european music?
This was why those genres at the time were considered very american because they were the result of the melting pot of cultures.
>>
>>90560811
Also east asians are the most populous ethnicity on the planet so they aren't exactly a minority except in a couple small parts of the world.
>>
>>90561026
But Kung Fu had Asian actors.

And really a white actor playing an asian character (which most people would agree is retarded), and I mean someone who is supposed to be asian in-universe, is not the same as a white character having some stereotypical Asian traits.
>>
>>90560844
>Nobody goes to Taco Bell because they like Mexican culture. They just want to eat Tacos.
Specifically they go there because they have very cheap tacos and they're opened late, taco bell is popular for the same reasons as white castle, its the perfect place for stoners to go when they get hungry at 1 am.
>>
>>90561010
Nah, nah, it's just something that's good to keep in mind, is what I'm saying. If you see it, inform people, but keep in mind you can inform them in a friendly way and not beat them over the head.

>>90561026
How so? With a TV show like kung-fu, it's the casting directors that exclude. But if I cook a recipe for myself that takes influence from chinese cooking and my own British cultural background, and like it, and so share it with others while being open about the elements used, how am I being exclusionary?
>>
>>90560953
You're the one that gives a shit.
Nobody else is going to hold your hand and do it for you.
>>
>>90558910
What's the martial art because so e styles don't know how to fucking punch.
>>
>>90559545
I agree with you.
The idea that culture can be owned is stupid.
>>
>>90561098
But it was still considered nigger music anon. The fact that this music only skyrocket when it had a white face singing it highlights the "harm" of cultural appropriation.
You're actually missing out on the culture.
>>
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And this, ladies and gentlemen, is why you should never pander to tumblr.
>>
>>90561288
There a people behind that culture.
>>
>>90561141
But the lead role still went to the white guy, even though that role was literally meant for an asian actor.
>>
>>90561409
And as I said, I don't think anyone thinks that's good, but I'm pointing out that Asians weren't actually excluded from Kung Fu like was claimed.
The Last Samurai, The Great Wall, Iron Fist, where white people portray white characters in Asian contexts, those are fine.
>>
>>90561290
I'm pretty sure Jazz and Blues were popular before Rock and Roll and Elvis.
Also what does it matter now?
If somebody writes a song and sings it, it is their song it is not the song of people that have been dead for decades or centuries even if it may tangentially have been inspired by them or people that were inspired by them.
Again if all rock music and its offshoots are "black music" then all music period is culturally appropriated from Neanderthals and Denisovans.
So I guess all us uppity H Sapiens have to sit in silence and not even think of attempting to sing so we don't step on any toes, or we could just stop giving a shit.
>>
>>90561468
>The Great Wall

Man, talk about "China masturbates over how great it is." the movie. I mean, entertaining movie with a neat historical fantasy aesthetic and aliens, but clearly Chinese propaganda.
>>
>>90559545
It is. Don't say shit like that because you know people in this thread are riled up and will agree with you.

The issue is that people are mistaking quite possibly one of the greatest parts about martial arts, it's ability to just unite and make friends of people who otherwise would never meet each other and calling it some bullshit about Danny being a thief of a culture.

Shit like this
>Sure, this is a show where a white male character explains how to punch to an Asian-American"
Even out of context and with the caveat of the Asian America teaches martial arts and shouldn't need to be taught how to punch is fucking retarded and unnecessarily racial.

Danny ended up in a place where they teach people how to fight and ended up being better at it than the guys who were already there. Big whoop. And he didn't even get there as an adult he was still a little kid when he started training.

Are they trying to make this some kind of eugenics bullshit?
>>
>>90561597
That's been their thing since they've stopped pretending there was no Chinese culture before Mao. It's basically overcompensating for 50 odd years of saying China was always shit before communism.


As you said, it can be entertaining so I'm cool with that.
>>
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>>90557040
If you don't stop I'm going to appropriate my foot into the culture of your ass.
>>
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>>90557194
>>90557778
Yeah, alright. Let's do this.
>>
>>90561366
There are, but you literally can't own culture. You can only produce it. If culture is held onto tightly, that is when it stagnates.
>>
>>90557061
They shoulda made Danny half-Asian. That'd make him an outsider in both cultures.
>>
>>90560586
I'm sorry your Asian wife and her geeky Asian friends are casuals who don't know anything about Iron Fist but are pissed about it anyway, anon.

t. Asian who isn't pissed about a white character being white
>>
>>90561886
I wish we were on /aco/ so I could request these two fucking
>>
>>90561939
He's supposed to be an outsider everywhere because he looks like a westerner and was born in a western country, but has spent most of his life in a mystical asian-ish city. Not because he's mixed race like every other 'murrican.
>>
>if you want to be a martial arts orientated super hero, you have to be a Ching Chong bing bong noodle eating, rice hat wearing, yellow skinned spongebob looking motherfucker
Surely they see the racism they're forcing themselves?
>>
>>90561721

Oh, definitely. Just people see the previews and assume it's about a white guy saving China, but in it Matt Damon's character decides not to be a mercenary anymore because he sees the army at the Wall fighting for something and he wants to join them. Yes, he's one of two characters who ultimately kill the queen alien and save the day but along the way there are a whole bunch of Chinese Warriors who nobly sacrifice themselves. There's also an entire side plot which basically boils down to "Only the Chinese are responsible enough to handle black powder".

Matt Damon's character isn't the savior of the Chinese people but the audience insert so they can see how "truly amazing" China is.
>>
>>90559545
I'm not a militant anti-sjw. I'm not a fan of /pol/. I'm sensitive about race and gender issues, and I always try to fight for equality in any way that I can.

But you are 100% fucking right about cultural appropriation.

It's just separation of the races for the supposed benefit of the other group.

In reality, it benefits no one. I can't believe this is something I have to explain to quote/unquote "socially conscious" people, but segregation isn't bad because "The White Man" wanted it. It's bad because it divides people. Separation leads to misunderstanding, misunderstanding leads to fear, fear leads to hate and hate leads to violence.

Seriously, I have no idea how these "cultural appropriation" retards think preventing whites from eating Chinese food helps Chinese restaurant owners. They fight for minorities by trying to undo every hard-won victory against the public attitudes that once excluded them. They use the exact same arguments once used by white supremacists to promote segregation. They are, in short, doing the exact opposite of what would help minorities be better off in our society. Nowhere is the term "regressive left" more literal than in the case of cultural appropriation.
>>
>>90562630
>But you are 100% fucking right about cultural appropriation.
No he's not, cultural apportion isn't sharing a culture so stop labelling it as such.
>>
>>90563601
Never said it was sharing. Just said it was natural, and a positive thing in a society that's striving towards racial and ethnic equality.
>>
>>90563754
It's not positive thing, you're exploiting a culture.
>>
>>90557040
Remind me, how many asian world title holders in MMA competitions right now?
>>
>>90563822
I understand that there are a lot of right-wing people on these boards, and I'm not one of them and don't mean to put you on the spot....

But how is cutting off one culture from the rest of the world going to help it?
>>
>>90557091
Well, the critics suprisingly ignored all those problems in Jessica Jones and Luke Cage.
Really makes you think, huh?
>>
You allowed this to happen, America.
You left progressivism grow under your doorsteps. You let them put irrationality and feelings above science and common sense.
There is no turning back now. Prepare yourselves to see your culture degrade, all your values to be lost and freedom of speech wither under censorship.
>>
>>90560013
You appropiated our instruments.
>>
>>90561886
>>90562053
If we were on /aco/, I'ld probably do that for you.
>>
>>90564054
Pacing issues in Luke Cage were on the back half of the season and him being a fucking Terminator and having to be attacked indirectly was a pretty nice change of pace.
>>
>>90559545
what about when nerd culture is appropriated by "fake nerd women" or whatever boogeymen this chinese shadow puppetry image board has come up with? its got to be real then right?
>>
>>90564229
No.
>>
>>90564158
Yeah...
If only we were on /aco/...
>>
>>90564054
Not really, a lot of them mentionned those issues but gave the shows a pass because "muh important message".
Which is bullshit, but not the same as completely ignoring the flaws.
>>
>>90557040
I knew this would happen. I think we all knew this would happen.
>>
>>90564124
>There is no turning back now. Prepare yourselves to see your culture degrade, all your values to be lost and freedom of speech wither under censorship.
Sure sounds like an appeal to reason and not feelings.
>>
>>90564378
Are you saying the "culture appropriation" appeals to reason or implying I'm appealing to feelings?
>>
>>90559989
We all evolved from the same monkies in africa. Why does it even fucking matter?
>>
>>90560123
Who the fuck thinks Elvis was the inventor of the electric guitar?
>>
>>90564426
The latter.
>>
>>90560058
They'll try to tell you about tattoos, hair and food.

Like the crazy assholes who insist that only black people ever had dreadlocks.
>>
>>90564500
I am not a conservative, in fact I hate them, but national culture and values are extremely important.
The spies in the USSR knew this, the techniques of subversion were created so you can alienate the youth of a nation, making them oppose their traditions and hate their values. Once they have nothing to believe in then their nation is ripe for taking, as they have nothing to fight for. All major countries perform this on each other to some level. Progressive agenda is a tool of subversion to weaken countries. Rejecting it not only is rational but it's also the only way to maintain the scientific community.
>>
>>90560728
They were wrong. Your culture also includes lots of rape and murder.
>>
>>90560492
This is why I can't stand ethnostate-loving natives. They're all watered down mutts yet they act like they hatched from native eggs.

Even worse up here in Canada.
>>
>>90561869
I chuckled.
>>
>>90564673
I'm just saying your argument was an appeal to feelings, not reason, and your new post doesn't even contradict that.
>>
>>90564831
How is not wanting freedom of speech (objectively important) and scientific principles to be removed from society an appeal to emotion?
>>
>>90564868
The assumption that if people don't agree with your premise that "progressivism" is wrong, then those frightening absolute things will happen (with no evidence put forth as to how that computes) is an appeal to feelings.
>>
Like with so many things that internet liberals and progressives complain about, cultural appropriation very much is a thing, and it can be super shitty. I mean, are any of you going to sit there and tell me blackface isn't SUPER fucking racist? Because that's literally one of the most cut-and-dry instances of cultural appropriation we've got.

The problem is that people crave or require attention, for various reasons (ego, revenue, whatever) and to gain attention they need to create content. This leads to a lot of people drumming up incredibly minor instances of an issue, either obscure or incredibly visible (depending on method and intent) to basically generate clicks. Sometimes because that's what they need to run their business, sometimes simply because they want to feel smart and special.

It's no different than the chucklefucks pulling two decade old murder statistics out of their ass. They desperately want to be relevant, in their lives and the lives of others, and they'll do anything to maintain that.

People are petty and afraid of being alone. News at 11.
>>
>>90561121
The same goes for most "minorities".

It's funny that these "minorities" actually outnumber whites vastly on a global scale.
>>
>>90564928
I could take several well established examples of what's going on in Europe and South America as evidence that this is indeed what it leads to, but I don't need to go that far.
Member when a Batgirl cover variant was forced to be called back because of outrage of people saying it was offensive, and projecting things on the cover, like saying it illustrate rape?
Member when they had to cover the body of the new Iron Man girl because her outfit showing her bellybutton was too revealing?
Member Youtube celebrity being cast as a fascist neo-nazi and losing all his sponsors for making jokes?
>>
>>90561409
He was half white if I recall.
>>
>>90564987
> I mean, are any of you going to sit there and tell me blackface isn't SUPER fucking racist? Because that's literally one of the most cut-and-dry instances of cultural appropriation we've got.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCjxzpSrFP4
>>
>>90565077
>example
>evidence
wew lad, and here it starts

>Member?
>not understanding that how freedom of speech works
Jesus Christ.
>>
>>90565101
Nah, many people thought he was part Asian or Narive American but
>Ethnicity: English, along with German, Scottish, Irish, Welsh, and Dutch
He was born in Thailand though.
>>
You just can't win with these fucking people.

They should NEVER be catered to. Fuck all of them.
>>
>>90565188

Japanese culture is super racist? I had NO idea, anon. Thank you so much for enlightening me.
>>
Why do I feel this retarded cunt trying to legitimize the cultural appropriation non-sense is the same that is always trying to push sjw shit on /co/, like last night trying to defend blackwashing on Domino?
>>
>>90561495
It's more of the fact that Elvis just performed songs that were actually written by black musicians, and his covers of said songs were wildly popular while the original songs and their authors faded into obscurity.
>>
>>90562107
You should know by now that SJWs lack any sense of self awareness.
>>
>>90559545
It depends, really. The main issue is that these SJW types love getting offended on the behalf of other people. The narrative of cultural appropriation should be led only by the people of the culture that is supposedly being appropriated. A white guy is a kung fu master? Ask what Chinese people think of it. Simple as that.
>>
>>90565221
I mean the character.
>>
>>90563948
Well, look at the debate on whether non-Native Americans could casually wear headdresses. I am by no means an expert, but as far as I know headdresses have a very high spiritual importance for many Native American tribes, and for some people to go out to places like, say, Coachella and wear these like a costume, I can see why they would be upset.
>>
>>90565188
What about this?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1vQUEB5ELg
>>
>>90565562
Except they never are and they would sell their trinkets to Americans and Mexicans before they were mass murdered.
In fact, most cultures enjoying sharing stuff, specially if they make a buck on it.
>>
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>>90557040
> Cultural appropriation

The Ancient One in Doc Strange's movie not being asian... does it count as Cultural appropriation too?
Would have it been racist to cast the Ancient One as a stereotypical old kinda-tibetan dude?
Is there even a winning to this game?
>>
>>90565879

>Karate Kid
>Takes place in China and is about Kung Fu
>>
>>90565298
>example
>evidence

I'm literally not American, tardo.
>>
>>90565329
Because you're retarded.
>>
>>90565368
Is it a cover if they wrote them?
Like did they perform them before him, too?
Like lots of musicians don't write their own music but hire writers for them, but that doesn't mean it isn't their song.
>>
>>90564124

> You let them put irrationality and feelings above science and common sense

Frankly this seems to be happening on both the right and the left, and now most discourse is just shill screeching from one side or the other.
>>
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>Cultural Appropriation

Fucking asian living fucking Asia getting ready to go to work over here, this is the most bullshit meme the SJWs cooked up I fucking swear.

Nobody here gives a flying fuck about foreigners practising our martial arts. In fact people like it when foreigners appreciate our culture. It is mostly those whiny immigrants seems to be bitching about this, and I know that so many Asian immigrants are whiny assholes sensitive about their heritage/culture/origins/whatever when they don't even know much about them

>UUUH, ONLY ASIANS SHOULD PRACTISE MARTIAL ARTS AND WEAR ASIAN CLOTHING AS THAT IS OUR STEREOTYPE

They could go fuck themselves
>>
>>90567873

I keep telling you. America's going to hell because of shit like this.

SJWs and /pol/tards have completely DESTROYED race relations in America forever and nothing will bring it back because SJWs and /pol/tards will fuel each others rage and delusions until they've destroyed everything in the middle.

Their antics will bring forward a new race war that will implode America from within, and Donald Trump will be left dumbfounded wondering "Da fuck just happened?" and he didn't even lift a finger to cause this, and he'll get blamed for it nevertheless.
>>
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>>90560216
If white people wearing eastern-style clothing is cultural appropriation, then asians wearing western style clothing is cultural appropriation.
This is a fact.
This is how this kind of thinking works for people without brain disorders.

If people actually get their shit in a twist over a white girl in a kimono, they should also get bitchy over every asian man wearing three-pieces and biz-casual, because it is the exact same fucking thing.
Western style clothes ARE 'traditional' clothes for westerners. We made them, they are identifiers of our culture and lifestyle. QED

Funny how they don't get pissy about that sort of thing, isn't it? It's almost like it doesn't fit their narrative so they ignore it or explain it away with mental gymnastics and buzzwords
>>
>>90568208

Seems that the only thing we can really do is grab a box of popcorn, because things like this is just gonna escalate.

Pretty soon, America's "melting pot" is going to be FURTHER segregated than usual, and it won't be the white man's fault completely this time.
>>
>>90560236
>Giving credit for everything that evolved from a base source to the creators of that base source

That's kind of like giving credit for the space station to bronze age smelters, what with them pioneering metallurgy which eventually led to space stations

Nogs 'made' that kind of music, but they didn't make what other people made out of it.
>>
>>90564987
Is blackface considered "cultural appropriation"? The sole purpose is to mock stereotypes which, as far as I know, I was supposed to believe were completely false. If we're saying its cultural appropriation doesn't that imply eating watermelon, fried chicken, and being fucking retarded are actually parts of black culture?
>>
>>90568306
I've seen a few of these types of people address this argument. They claim that because the Western world Colonized these other cultures it's not the same thing.
>>
>>90565188
That's hilarious though.

>tfw no racist country
>>
i'm an asian american and don't give a fuck about bruce lee and thought the immortal iron fist was one of the funnest cape books written

the internet would call that being a race traitor and that's fucking retarded
>>
>>90568208

Is there nothing we can do to stop this?
At this rate, there might be another Civil War heading our way, and yet NO ONE is willing to stop this happening? Are we really just going to let it fester?
>>
>>90568442
>we were colonized by you over a century ago
>so we wear modern western clothing
How the fuck does that make any sense? By that logic, as the conquerors and conquests are apparently joined at the hip for all time, it is within our right to take dominion of any and all aspects of their inferior culture that we please.
That's literally what they're invoking with this powerplay bullshit
>>
>>90568924
Yes, because if there is a civil war, guess who's going to win?
I'll give you a hint, it's not the side with all the armchair admirals, SJWs, and rioting nogs.
>>
>>90568929
>That's literally what they're invoking with this powerplay bullshit

I think you misunderstand. They're not invoking the conquerer-conquered dynamic; they're invoking the victimi-victimizer dynamic. As long as one is the victim, they can do no wrong.
>>
>>90568972

I don't think I really want a war period regardless on who has the advantage. War ain't pretty.
>>
>>90569002
Just because you're offended and outraged, doesn't mean that you're right

A willingness, eagerness even, to take offense is every bit as destructive as inconsiderate/antagonizing behavior
>>
>>90557040

Now look, I'm for respecting other cultures and all that but wasn't the whole deal with Iron Fist that indeed, he was a white dude learning some kind of long lost martial art?
>>
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>>90557061
that's racist

do

do they not see that that is racist?
>>
>>90569339
Danny loses his parents when they seek the mystical city of K'un L'un. Makes his residence there and trains his whole life.

But you know fuck story go progressiveness.
>>
>>90564987

How in the fuck is blackface cultural appropriation?

See, this is a lot of my problem with these kinds of buzzwords: the definition is extremely nebulous and seems to change as needed to fit a given context.
>>
>>90568972
>guess who's going to win?
Libertarians who are sick of both of your shit.
>>
>>90568632
The internet would call you a race traitor for even browsing 4chan.
>>
>>90564314
Why do I feel like you two are about to fuck now?
>>
>>90569381
Someone invented the term "Cultural Appropriation" so they now have a perfect excuse to be racist while not feeling like they're being racist.

Nevermind the part where ideas being shared and adapted is the only reason culture exists in the first place, and if it isn't, it dies out. Nah. Celebrating another culture by embracing it is wrong, and racist.
>>
>>90557040
I for one, am shocked.
Nobody could have possibly seen this coming.
>>
>>90569381
Tumblrites are extremely fucking hypocritical and lack all sense of self awareness, they're extremely racist.
>>
>>90558972
hollywood reporter actually hated it because the mc was bland, the sets were cheap, it's mostly talking and the main guy sucks at fighting, so it probably actually sucks. the one quote the op used was cherry-picking.
>>
>America's multi-century history of imperiled black masculinity

What did they mean by this? Let Tyrone rape all da white wimmin in peace goddammit?
>>
>>90569381
>>90570113
Yep, stereotypes aren't racist anymore and fuck whitey if he's doing anything but groveling.

This shit is getting to the point where reality is surpassing satire from just a few years ago. These people are acting like caricatures from a futuristic green text horror story on /pol/.
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