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Are comic books dying?

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Comic stores keep closing all around the country and comic sales keep declining expect the one month raise when a movie come out or a really big event happening.

So, do you think we will witness the end of comic in the near future?
>>
>>90501829
They'll go digital or people will order them online. Blockbuster closing didn't mean the end of video rentals.
>>
>2011 $715 million
>2012 $805 million
>2013 $870 million
>2014 $935 million
>2015 $1.03 billion

Amazing how the only print industry that's growing is apparently dying.
>>
>>90502024
A lot of indie stuff is increasing but both dc and marvel are selling less than fucking ever.
>>
>>90502024
That thanks to the movies and the relunches, but they aren't long term solution. I'm means, notice how 2011 was the year New 52 happened and 2012 was the year where the avengers movie come out.

Now, we keep hearing the floppies aren't doing that well and Marvel is in pathetic state and Rebirth is doing worse than N52. No need to mention the Indies are still not doing great.
>>
Comic book sales are going up now. Forget dollars, let's look at unit sales. 2016 has a 1% lead over 2015, which was 7% bigger than 2014, which was 0.25% larger than 2013, which was 7% greater than 2012, which was 11% more active than 2011...

Source: Comichron

And that's just through the direct market. Sales for comics are also up outside of Diamond, though Amazon and Nielsen only give us estimates instead of hard numbers.

>>90502167
>>90502268
Give us some actual numbers instead of just your gut feelings, please.
>>
>>90502167
If it's true than good.
Nothing against Marvel and DC but they need to stop monopolizing the industry.
>>
>>90502308
Go and see the sales reports for the last few months. It's not hard to find them.
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>>90502520
So why don't you do it?

You're making a claim, you need to back it up.
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>>90502551
>February 2017 Comic Book Sales Report
1. Star Wars Darth Maul 1 $4.99 Marvel 105,177
2. Batman 16 $2.99 DC 102,096
3. Batman 17 $2.99 DC 99,637
4. Justice League of America 1* $2.99 DC 93,494
5. Super Sons 1* $2.99 DC 90,345
6. Walking Dead 164 $2.99 Image 83,999
7. All Star Batman 7 $4.99 DC 77,096
8. Star Wars 28 $3.99 Marvel 74,002
9. Justice League of America Rebirth 1* $2.99 DC 73,397
10. Justice League 14 $2.99 DC 65,458

>Retailers ordered $39.77 million in comics, graphic novels, and magazines across February’s four shipping weeks; that’s the first time the overall total has been below $40 million since February 2014. Comics dollar sales were off 4.47% and graphic novels off 3.3%, resulting in a year-over-year decline of 4.11%.
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>>90502916
So comic sales are up year after year after year, but you're forecasting doom and gloom because of... a one-month dip?
>>
>>90502916
>Batman below 100k
Wait, what's going here?
>>
>>90501829
Nope.

Sales are up.

There are too many stores though.
>>
>>90502963
Did you even read what I said here >>>90502268

Marvel isn't doing well and Rebirth is doing worse than N52. Heck, most of their monthlies around 20k and half of DC double shipping seems to be getting close to 20k in next few months.
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>>90501860
It pretty much did, though.
How many people do you know who *rent* movies online (Netflix subscriptions don't count)?
>>
>>90503132
>Netflix subscriptions don't count
Why doesn't it count? You pay monthly to rent movies. Also there are redboxes everywhere.
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>>90502972
Not as many people like King's current run. It is a combination of him doing a 22 issue long story arc (so some things appear poorly planned), his weird use of dialogue (Batman is literally autistic sounding), and fans of Snyder pulling classic "not muh batman" stuff

It has improved recently, and will probably get a sales boost from the crossover soon
>>
>>90503069
I'm still waiting for you to post numbers.

How many total units did Marvel sell in 2016? Was it more or less than 2015?
How many total units did DC sell in 2016? Was it more or less than 2015?
>>
>>90501829
Not only will we witness the end of comic shops, but we will also witness the end of movie theaters. And we can all blame Disney for both. Because Disney essentially owns both. They are bloating both industries with nonstop schlock, which are gradually leading to massive population exhaustion.

Movie theaters will only exist in China and other third world counties, because they'll fucking watch anything as long as their oppressive governments allow it to be shown.
>>
>>90501829
>Are comic books dying?

Print as a whole is dying, but it's slow. Comic books have plateau'd in sales, essentially - they're not bringing in enough new readers to really survive longer-term, but the readers they have often buy significant amounts each year, so they can cope better with fewer overall readers but will lose more money as those people leave the market (die).

>>90502024
These are Comichron's/ICV2's estimates for the overall market for comic books in North America. Diamond's own sales figures are a fraction of these -usually about 1/3. Also, you haven't accounted for inflation, or separated out digital sales which dropped 10% in 2015 from 2014, and only account for the item's value, not its cost to the consumer - so digital freebies are counted too, twice if they were 'bought' with a code in a floppy.

At 2017 $$$:

>2011 $715 million

$771.90 million

>2012 $805 million

$851.44 millon

>2013 $870 million

$906.91 million

>2014 $935 million

$959.10 million

>2015 $1.03 billion

$1.0553 billion

There's a clear growth problem there - it's not consistent growth. That tends to imply that these sales, whatever they are, aren't growing the underlying businesses (the publishers), but represent fads or bubbles in their own right.

Eg in 2015 Diamond sales accounted for $397.53 million (@2017$) of which the top 300 were over 90%. This implies that the rest of the market is made up by newsstand (comics like Archie which don't ship through Diamond), digital (which Diamond don't handle, but which are less than 10% of the market and dropping as a proportion since 2013) and bookseller (Amazon, B&N, etc - reprint in trades, for the most part).

The increased sales of reprint aren't good news for the market - there's 80 years of reprint to sell, and if it sells better than new works, that's what they'll publish.

>>90501860
Digital isn't working out and online sales, for the most part, are probably just fans of TWD's overpriced trades.
>>
>>90502308
>>90502520
>>90502916
Unit sales are immaterial as long as the money flows.

>>90503334
Movie theaters are owned by a huge variety of companies. The large chains are owned by the same groups as the studios, but - and this is important - they're groups. They're not one big happy family where all the money they make pays upward and nobody loses out.

Besides, movie theaters are a 100 year old solution to the distribution problem. They've been dying off since radio came along.
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>>90503284
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>>90503565
I admit that I don't know how to read this. So, what it does say?
>>
>>90503565
That's not what I asked for.

Why aren't you giving me what I asked for?
>>
>>90503595
Dollars are down, but units are up.

They are selling more content, but with a lower price tag and making a smaller profit on that content.
>>
>>90503479
>Digital isn't working out and online sales, for the most part, are probably just fans of TWD's overpriced trades.

How do you know this?
>>
>>90503565
>>90503641
Thanks. I guess the graphic novels are really not doing well.

And to answer you op, yes I do believe they are dying, but it's a pretty slow death.
>>
>>90503069
>Rebirth is doing worse than N52
Huh? I thought it was a big success?
>>
>>90503956
How are they dying if they're selling more comics?
>>
No, but the comic shop is all but done for. Good riddance, they're part of the problem.
>>
>>90503975
It's not unfortunately. It did better than DCyou, but it's bleeding faster than N52 and Batman is already below 100k.
>>
>>90503479
Great analysis, dude.

The problem with comic industry is that they don't know how to gain new readers and the ones who decided to start reading comics don't stay for long.
>>
>>90503172
Because you're NOT paying to "rent" them. You're paying to watch them *on demand*.
There's a huge difference there involving time constraints.

also no redboxes in leafcountry
>>
I feel comics like books wont die, but were headed much like tv where people wait for the boxsets.
Trades are doing a well and Im at the stage where my pull has shrunk so much over the years but my trade buying has expanded to series ive never even delved into before.
>>
>>90504646
Redboxes lasted for about a year in the North, and I can honestly say that no one that I knew ever used one. Unless you have a local store or a Jumbo, there is no renting physical media in Canada
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>>90504296
What can they do to win over new readers?
>>
Comic SHOPS are dying out, which is not a bad thing.

They need to start selling more shit in bookstores and on newsstands.
>>
>>90504835
Tell marvel to drop their price and their pandering.

Tell image to stop hiring writers who cant hit deadlines or even finish a run.

Get Ellis to get bsck to writting fall.
>>
>>90504835
Less events, relaunches, crossovers and reboots.

New readers are more receptive to trades and stories that are self contained. Old comic book readers are battered housewives, they're already used to dealing with this kind of shit. New readers are not and will quickly jump ship to other forms of entertainment if they keep being blasted with constant events and stories that are full of continuity wank and crossovers ("you need to read X #22 to get the ending of Y #16" type of crap).
>>
>>90504847
In the uk news agents sell multi-issues in 1 comics, both marvel and DC.

For example the batman one would collect 3 issues of batfamily comics. Always mainline bats, and 2 others.

All for the price of 3.99.
They are usually a story arc behind the floppies but i feel its a better deal.
>>
>>90503565
>>90503956
Are those graphic novels numbers for Diamond deliveries? Are the books sold in book stores (Indigo, Barnes and Noble) included in those figures?
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>>90504720
there's no doing almost anything in Canada
Canadians go to the U.S. for almost anything fun
if they're allowed in that is
>>
>>90504928
>less cross overs
This.
I drop comics from my pull a lot because of this. If i wanted to read about some shitty b-hero id buy their comics.

Also, its even turning the 'casual fan' from the tv shows too because of crossovers.
>>
>>90504296
Look at the fucking top ten everything is lower than 100k a fucking decade ago every book in the top would be in the 100ks. they used to have dedicated fans but messing that up really screwed them.
>>
>>90504962
>For example the batman one would collect 3 issues of batfamily comics. Always mainline bats, and 2 others
This is a very good idea.

DC can collect the batfamily books and Superman books together first as a way to see if it's going to work and if it did, they can do it with the rest.
>>
>>90505114
How would they collect the rest of their books, though? Like where they will put Flash, Wonder Woman....etc?
>>
>>90501829
Reminder.
>>
>>90505286
Looks like pretty much all of those are female-oriented comics.
>>
>>90505267
They do a Justice League collection. They put JL, Wonder Woman, Flash, Aquaman, Green Lanterns and Cyborg together.
>>
>>90504978
>Are those graphic novels numbers for Diamond deliveries?

Yes.

Are the books sold in book stores (Indigo, Barnes and Noble) included in those figures?

No, they're on a separate list, the Bookscan list.
>>
>>90504847
>Get rid of the comic shops!
>Put the comics in this other market where all the monthly comics will be $3.99 instead of $2.99 and have a limited selection!

Real smart, anon. Real fucking smart.
>>
>>90503565
Not sure figures from one month to the next are really that useful. Do you have the same numbers for the last five years?
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>>90504127
>It's not unfortunately. It did better than DCyou, but it's bleeding faster than N52 and Batman is already below 100k.

Well that is bullshit. Even if they are cannalizing their own sales DC is still making boatloads of money double shipping their A-List titles twice a month.
>>
>>90502268
Nope fuck off doomsayer retard, comics are still naturally recovering from the crash, and the films only speed that process along.
>>
>>90504660
I don't buy shit except trades/hardcovers.

Why the fuck would I pay $3-5 for 20 pages if I could get 200 pages for like $12 as a big book.
>>
>>90505319
because they buy comics
>>
>>90506179
>their parents buy them comics at school book fairs.
FTFY
But yea, this will probably result in a good chunk of them buying comics for the rest of their lives
>>
>>90506179
Yeah, but not from the direct market so people on /co/ keep parroting the fact that "hurr women don't read comics stop pandering to them".

The truth is that a lot of women did start reading comics in the last couple of years, but they don't buy them from comic book shops. They buy trades from Amazon or digital.
>>
>when she asks to borrow The Omega Men
how should i propose /co/?
>>
>>90506230
>their parents buy them comics at school book fairs.
And that matters why? They still buy these comics, so it makes financial sense that companies would start pandering to girls more.
>>
>>90502268
>No need to mention the Indies are still not doing great.
Yea Image getting to double digits of marketshare is a complete failure, and the fact that many webcomics outstrip the physical publishers' reach exponentially is a death knell for all non big two comics.
>>
>>90506231
IIRC Ms Marvel did really well in trade sales on the bookscan chart (which covers non-comic shops) last year and I think the year before.
>>
>>90505024
I agree problem is those shitty cross overs and pointless reboots are the biggest sellers even if it's only because of promotional fuckery
>>
>>90506259
Because it isn't necessarily the child's choice, the parents may have a hand in picking out the books as well, and it also means that when the child grows up and has to vote with their own dollar rather than their parents they may not buy comics. I'm optimistic that some of these girls may remain lifelong enthusiasts of the genre but make up and bras are expensive. (I say this unironically, because it's the excuse that several of my female friends who are """"into"""" comics, aka reblogging pages on tumblr, give for not actually reading them)
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>>90506321
Medium not genre, my bad
>>
>>90506321
>I'm optimistic that some of these girls may remain lifelong enthusiasts of the genre but make up and bras are expensive.

can't they just pirate them like we do?
>>
>>90506321
Yeah, but when these girls grow up, there will still be other little girls that will get comics from their parents.

It's just smart business to make all kinds of books that target different demographics.
>>
>>90504835
Fire all the sjws. Tell guards to shoot them if they are close to the building.
Moore, Gaiman, Morrison. THis is your home. Feel free to come and write wonderful stories with our characters. Do whatever you want with them. Oh, and could you solve the OMD mess, please?
Real continuity. Characters will grow old and die. And they won't appear in more than 2 series.
You bash on other publishers, I fire your ass for giving Marvel a bad PR. Besides, what kind of idiot insults future or former employers?
No more decompressed narrative.
No more Ultimate universe.
90s characters: kill them off. Fuck Cable, Deadpool and all that shit.
No manga influence. Let's keep comics pure and clean from inferior beings.
Creative Commons licenses for all Marvel products.
Epic Illustrated v2. European and Latin American stories.
Spanish translations of books. It's the second language of the US!
Republish pre-1990 material and let 90s books rot in the cellar.
Punisher out of 616 universe.
Millar: get out of here.
Ellis: finish your series or others better than you will do it.
Give Moon Knight a decent writer, for Jack's sake.
Don't charge more than 2 $ per issue.
More translations of foreign material (yes, including manga)
A Vertigo-like collection.
Fuck crossovers and events.
Less splash pages. We are telling a story, you know.
No Conservative messages in comics.
Aunt may dies forever.
Iron man: he fell into a puddle and got rust. Killed off or a B-list again.
Writers and artists keep the copyright every time they create a new character.
Characters can smoke or take drugs if necessary or cool.
Put the ads at the end of the story. No more interruptions.
>>
>>90506095
>DC is still making boatloads of money double shipping their A-List titles twice a month
Why comic fans are so dumb?

Do you know that the cost for two issues in one month are the same for two issues in two months? For example, DC was shipping 150k Batman in one month for one issue with higher price and now they are shipping 200k for TWO issues with lower in two months. So, DC is burden themselves with the double shipping and gaining less than they did with N52 when it was just once a month.
>>
>>90506501
>90s characters: kill them off. Deadpool
Congrats, you just killed one of Marvel's main money makers. Also, what's with that reddit format of posting?
>>
>>90506557
>Why comic fans are so dumb?
And that suprise you? If they were smart, they wouldn't have stayed all these years with big two and let them get away with all things they done to them.
>>
>>90506321
>Bras and makeup are expensive

This is actually a pretty fair point. Given the choice between spending $50 a month to keep up with the bat family or spending the same amount on almost anything else only the most dedicated or wealthycollectors are going opt for the funny books
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>>90506600
It's called a list, anon.
>>
>>90506639
>>90506639
It's called greentext retard
>>
>>90506557
>in two months
*Price in one month
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>>90506681
And who am I quoting?
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>>90506274
Okay, I just checked:

http://www.cbr.com/bookscan-numbers-show-big-book-market-growth-for-comics-in-2014/

Ms. Marvel vol 1 was 7th place of the high-selling Marvel TPBs/GNs outside of comic shops in 2014

http://www.cbr.com/looking-at-bookscan-2015/

In the 2015 Bookscan chart, Ms. Marvel was at #2 on the list of just Marvel's books, which is a real jump. Brian Hibbs hasn't done his analysis of the Bookscan 2016 chart yet.
>>
>>90506557
It sells less because King hasn't been as well received as Snyder was. It was bound to happen even for a monthly book.
>>
>>90506710
You're quoting modified stale copypasta
>>
>>90506748
?
>>
>>90506629
No, it has to do with what you care about, I enjoy new clothes too, but I update my wardrobe about twice a year. That being said I don't buy floppies, just collections.
I just think if you prioritize make up over comic books it's really tough to consider yourself a comic book fan
>>
>>90501829
>Comic stores keep closing all around the country
Because physical retail stores across the country are doing and the Local Comic Shop model is an inherently flawed and non-profitable business model even if that weren't the case.

>comic sales keep declining
Factually incorrect. Comic sales have been increasing year to year for the past decade.
>>
>>90502167
DC's sales are the highest they've been since the start of the New 52 (2011). Marvel's sales have stagnated and 2016 was a weak year for them compared to 2015, but they're only selling poorly in comparison to the past couple years and even then, they're really not selling that much worse than usual and only look like they're selling poorly because DC's stellar sales have eaten up a large chunk of the market share.

So no, stop talking out of your ass.
>>
>>90504928
This 100%. Everyone I try to introduce to comics complains that the constant events, crossovers, and relaunches are too confusing
>>
>>90506815
>Comic sales have been increasing year to year for the past decade.
But /co/ told me movie fans don't buy comics.
>>
>>90506734
It's not only King (though, I do keep hearing that many aren't happy with it). Most of DC books are bleeding faster than they did in n52 and someone did analysis about it here.
>>
>>90506888
Post the link then?
>>
>>90506875
The vast majority don't. But if even 0.01% of people that go see a movie end up buying a comic, that's still like a 25% boost in sales for comics because millions of people go see movies while only thousands of people buy comics.
>>
In my area there is no longer thing as a comic shop
There are stores that sell comics and trades but all carry all kinds of other things like gaming stuff and other "nerd" things

The stores that tried to stay strictly comics are gone.
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>>90506501
>What can they do to win over new readers?
>Cater to all of my fanboy whims
>>
>>90506937
All the "nerd" shit stores need to consolidate. Sell weeb shit, Hot Topic teen-bait junk, video games, etc. in one location.
>>
>>90506913
It was done by anon here months ago and I don't even know how to find it in the archives.

If you want to search for it, by my guest. They used Green Arrow as example.
>>
>>90506875
They only try them when the movie come out and then drop them quickly. They just cause a temporary increase in sales before it drop hard.
>>
>>90507073
So you have 0 proof and are just talking out of your ass. Got it.
>>
>>90506939
Because pandering to tumblr is the way to go, right?
>>
>>90507274
I think it's the guy who keeps trying to say "returnability is a scam" a lot in the hopes everyone would believe him.
>>
>>90507315
It's a shame that the sales thread got nuked yesterday before he could compare all of the title's sales drops to show how "rebirth has tanked hard." Whenever people ask him to do Marvel numbers, he usually does 1 or 2 titles, then leaves
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>>90507204
Wow that sure is totally inconsistent with the facts!
>>
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>>90501829
I kinda hope comics, or at least cape comics in there current form do die, because what rises from the ashes will be a whole lot more interesting than the stagnation cape comics are presently in.
>>
>>90507274
I was actually planning to search it for you, but your comment proved that you aren't worth it
>>
>>90507383
Oi wud GI 'er Joe, if yer nu waaat Oi mean.
>>
>>90507375
....what? Are you ok?
>>
>>90507315
>>90507362
Cape fans aren't only dumb, but also insecure who think everything is company war.
>>
>>90505106
I find incredible how comics here in Italy have basically the same sales of the US (top titles around 100k, most average aroung 30k) while having a fifth of the population.
>>
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What drew me to (mainstream) comics was well told fun stories. What they have become now is virtue signalling edge fest for sexually frustrated teens. They forgot how to be fun and now just want to cash in on the next biggest twist à la Captain America was a Hydra agent all along! It's boring and cringey like the kid who just learned his first swear word. When stuff like JL8 gets the characters better then the people at DC does you have issues.

I imagine most people are like me and don't want to put up with The Dark Knight Returns of the week and until they realize it sales will keep dropping. Third party comics are fun tho.
>>
>>90507544
Why don't you prove your point by providing some hard facts?
>>
>>90506888
>Most of DC books are bleeding faster than they did in n52
>>90507073
>If you want to search for it, by my guest. They used Green Arrow as example.


New 52 Green Arrow:

09/2011: Green Arrow #1 -- 61,680 (+158.3%) [72,359]
10/2011: Green Arrow #2 -- 58,708 (- 4.8%)
11/2011: Green Arrow #3 -- 46,899 (- 20.1%)
12/2011: Green Arrow #4 -- 37,116 (- 20.9%)
01/2012: Green Arrow #5 -- 33,593 (- 9.5%)
02/2012: Green Arrow #6 -- 30,097 (- 10.4%)
03/2012: Green Arrow #7 -- 29,004 (- 3.6%)
04/2012: Green Arrow #8 -- 27,433 (- 5.4%)
05/2012: Green Arrow #9 -- 26,966 (- 1.7%)
06/2012: Green Arrow #10 -- 25,769 (- 4.4%)
07/2012: Green Arrow #11 -- 24,646 (- 4.4%)
08/2012: Green Arrow #12 -- 23,126 (- 6.2%)
09/2012: Green Arrow #0 -- 28,408 (+ 22.8%)
10/2012: Green Arrow #13 -- 22,057 (- 22.4%)
11/2012: Green Arrow #14 -- 21,825 (- 1.1%)
12/2012: Green Arrow #15 -- 20,672 (- 5.3%)

Rebirth Green Arrow:

06/2016: Rebirth #1 -- 89,936 (+373.0%) [97,243]
06/2016: Green Arrow #1 -- 76,816 (- 4.4%) [92,931]
07/2016: Green Arrow #2 -- 80,134 (- 13.8%)
07/2016: Green Arrow #3 -- 80,150 (+ 0.0%)
08/2016: Green Arrow #4 -- 74,335 (- 7.3%)
08/2016: Green Arrow #5 -- 69,530 (- 6.5%)
09/2016: Green Arrow #6 -- 55,330 (- 20.4%)
09/2016: Green Arrow #7 -- 52,794 (- 4.6%)
10/2016: Green Arrow #8 -- 49,904 (- 7.4%)
10/2016: Green Arrow #9 -- 46,606 (- 4.7%)
11/2016: Green Arrow #10 -- 43,355 (- 7.0%)
11/2016: Green Arrow #11 -- 41,576 (- 4.1%)
12/2016: Green Arrow #12 -- 38,515 (- 7.4%)
12/2016: Green Arrow #13 -- 37,365 (- 3.0%)
01/2017: Green Arrow #14 -- 35,733 (- 4.4%)
01/2017: Green Arrow #15 -- 34,590 (- 3.2%)

>YEAH REBIRTH GREEN ARROW IS TOTALLY DOING WORSE THAN NEW 52 GREEN ARROW GUYS

I guess you can't fucking do math.
>>
>>90501829
They're dying but this isn't news. It's been slowly happening since the 90s
>>
>>90507666
The sad thing is that you don't even realize how dumb you sound.
>>
>>90501829
Let it die. Pick up a new hobby or learn a skill.
>>
>>90507751
I agree, it makes >>90506888 and >>90507073 look dumb.
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>>90502411

Marvel kinda deserves the sales slump. They have a good thing going with the movies and TV shows. Then people go to buy the comics and..... where's thor? Where's Cap? Where's hulk? It's just plain fucking dumb to alienate both die-hard fans and casuals like that. Give the people what they want and also fulfill peoples curiosity.
>>
>>90507575
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>>90507751
Holy shit, you dumbass! Have you even done anything in this thread except calling others dumb, while being proven wrong the whole time.
>>
>>90507666
When the raw numbers of sales each month didn't work for him, that Anon changed to argue that the drops between each week were worse, therefore Rebirth as a whole is bleeding sales
>>
>>90507884
It's hilarious.
>>
>>90507686
>They're dying
>sales have been on a constant increase for over a decade and that's only counting the direct market which is an inherently flawed system that relies on physical retail and print media, both of which are dieing
>not even counting digital and non-direct market trade sales, both of which have also been increasing year to year
Yeah man. That industry that's the strongest its been since the 90s sure is dying. The only print media that isn't dead, but is actually having its sales increase, is surely dieing. All those properties that are dominating every facet of non-comic media sure aren't relevant anymore.
>>
>>90507884
It's funny because it ignores that the reason the drops slowed down on the New 52 was that the sales got really low early on.
>>
>>90507666
Not him, but you can't compare n52 GA #15 to Rebirth #15 because of the double shipping.

So, the comparison would be like this:
09/2011: Green Arrow #1 -- 61,680 (+158.3%) [72,359]
10/2011: Green Arrow #2 -- 58,708 (- 4.8%)
11/2011: Green Arrow #3 -- 46,899 (- 20.1%)
12/2011: Green Arrow #4 -- 37,116 (- 20.9%)
01/2012: Green Arrow #5 -- 33,593 (- 9.5%)
02/2012: Green Arrow #6 -- 30,097 (- 10.4%)
03/2012: Green Arrow #7 -- 29,004 (- 3.6%)
04/2012: Green Arrow #8 -- 27,433 (- 5.4%)

Rebirth Green Arrow:

06/2016: Rebirth #1 -- 89,936 (+373.0%) [97,243]
06/2016: Green Arrow #1 -- 76,816 (- 4.4%) [92,931]
07/2016: Green Arrow #2 -- 80,134 (- 13.8%)
07/2016: Green Arrow #3 -- 80,150 (+ 0.0%)
08/2016: Green Arrow #4 -- 74,335 (- 7.3%)
08/2016: Green Arrow #5 -- 69,530 (- 6.5%)
09/2016: Green Arrow #6 -- 55,330 (- 20.4%)
09/2016: Green Arrow #7 -- 52,794 (- 4.6%)
10/2016: Green Arrow #8 -- 49,904 (- 7.4%)
10/2016: Green Arrow #9 -- 46,606 (- 4.7%)
11/2016: Green Arrow #10 -- 43,355 (- 7.0%)
11/2016: Green Arrow #11 -- 41,576 (- 4.1%)
12/2016: Green Arrow #12 -- 38,515 (- 7.4%)
12/2016: Green Arrow #13 -- 37,365 (- 3.0%)
01/2017: Green Arrow #14 -- 35,733 (- 4.4%)
01/2017: Green Arrow #15 -- 34,590 (- 3.2%)

8 months of n52 vs 8 months of rebirth.
>>
>>90508021
That does look like Rebirth is bleeding faster. How did GA do in February?
>>
>>90507307
Yes good point.
Pandering to you will be so much better.
>>
>>90508176
Green Arrow 16 33,371
Green Arrow 17 32,392
>>
>>90508324
Man, so GA going to fell to 20k in April. Such a shame.
>>
>mouseketeers posting fake lists again
Like clockwork.
>>
>>90508359
You have to see the monthly books. They are the biggest victims which is the real shame because two of the monthlies are my favorite.
>>
>>90508176
>That does look like Rebirth is bleeding faster.

DC made the New 52 returnable all the way to April:

http://icv2.com/articles/comics/view/21244/dc-extends-returnable-program

Rebirth's returnability only covered the first three months (in this case it would be Rebirth issue, and #1-5)

That's why you would think Rebirth bled faster than New 52.
>>
How did this thread become about DC?
>>
>>90508537
Some people are angry about DC doing well.
>>
>>90508522
>05/2012: Green Arrow #9 -- 26,966 (- 1.7%)
>09/2016: Green Arrow #6 -- 55,330 (- 20.4%)

When they stopped the returnability in the New 52, there was only (1.7%) drop in the next issue while in rebirth there was (20.4%) drop in the next issue. That does make it look that Rebirth is bleeding faster.
>>
>>90508537
>>90508776
and they need a place to vent because the February Sales Report was deleted yesterday
>>
>>90501829
hopefully, yes
>>
>>90508813
In fact, there are several sales reports every month, and so far all of them bring good news about DC.
>>
>>90508776
>>90508813
>>90508971
I always thought that Marvel are the most pathetic fans, but these comments proved to me that both DC and Marvel fans are pathetic.
>>
>>90509067
>>
>>90509134
You really not helping your case.
>>
I really don't give a fuck about green arrows numbers. Dudes a fucking loser.

Why wouldn't they crunch the superman numbers? Hows that bleeding in comparison to n52?
>>
>>90509229
Just looked and trust me when I say that using Superman will actually prove his point.

Too lazy to post all of them, but here's the sales for Superman after 8 months in n52 compared to 8 of rebirth.

4/2012 Superman #8 64,486
01/2017 Superman #16 56,105
01/2017 Superman #17 54,561
>>
>>90509541
Hey man, how were Detective and Flash doing?
>>
>>90509713
I'm reading 2012 June report now which is the tenth month of n52.

Detective was around 80k and Flash was 50k.
>>
>>90509763
>>90509541
>>90508021
I really dont understand your thinking, who cares about the month to month when it should be issue to issue sales you are looking at. even if the numbers are dropping off faster in Rebrith, DC has still made more money from Rebrith than they did in the same time period for New 52, and the bottom line is money.
>>
>>90509953
Because you can't compare 17 months to 8 months. Retailers order the same amount of double shipping books for the same month after all.
>>
>>90510157
Not that anon but to a degree I think you can. The drop off in readership isnt just amount of time passed but also readers deciding the book isnt for them after reading several issues.
>>
>>90510157
but you definitely can compare the first 8 months to the next 8 months. Like who cares if they are losing readers at a higher temporal rate if they are still making more money and some books have higher readers at the same issue number? 8 issues is 8 issues regardless when its released.
>>
>>90510157
>>90510320
first 8 months to the first 8 months I mean
>>
>>90501829
>Is print media dying?
Yes.
>>
>>90506501
>No Conservative messages in comics.
Define conservative here. What do you mean by conservative, be precise.
>>
>>90510276
You don't understand, double shipping make the bleed look slower than it actually is.

Look at how the monthly books are doing now compared to before. After 8 months, most of them fell to 20k and under while they stayed strong after 8 months in n52.
>>
>>90510381
The transition to digital is critical if comic books are going to survive past our life time. Frankly it is amazing that this type of short form serialized fiction has lasted as long as it has.
>>
>>90506719
Oh wait, what do you know, he just posted it up today:

http://www.comicsbeat.com/tilting-at-windmills-257-looking-at-bookscan-2016-more-than-10-million-sold/

Ms. Marvel vol 1 still manages to make it on the 2016 list as 7th best selling Marvel TPB.

Downside is that Marvel is still in 5th place compared to western publishers (1st place is Scholastic, 2nd is DC, 3rd is Image, 4th is Simon and Schuster)
>>
>>90510523
I don't think its masking anything, what I think it is is people who buy double shipped books still have the same budget as before so monthlies are taking the hit.
>>
>>90510523
>most of them fell to 20k

Well thats just a lie, but regardless they still have sold more issues of each title over all, comparing it issue to issue. Monthly sales dont matter. Compare the issue sales.
>>
So indie is doing good and the big industries aren't? Has anyone considered that maybe the original content is why the industry is growing while the big two are contracting? The constant rehashing does get super old. Can they even do original heroes now that aren't SJW advertising and instead have good character? Cause all the shit I've seen as of late is disappointing. I'm just a wander fa/tg/uy though.
>>
>>90510639 #
Monthlies are definitely taking a big hit that something I don't disagree with.

And let me make it more clear to you, Retailers match the order for Superman 16 and 17 because they come out in the same month and retailers already assume that people who buy 16 in this particular month will also buy 17 so you will not see much of different between the two issues compared if come out in different months.

>>90510659 #
Yes, MOST of them are and that not counting YA and HB. Only All star Batman, Titans books, Trinity that still sell above 30k.

Do your research before you call me a liar.
>>
>>90510987
>So indie is doing good and the big industries aren't?
Marvel and DC collectively make up about 70-80% of the industry. The "the comics industry is dieing!" meme is just that, a fake meme based on the backs of shitposter's feelings rather than actual numbers and facts.
>>
>>90511278
But anon, memes and feelings are all that matter in this post intellectual society. My feeling are more important than your facts
>>
If comic books aren't even kept track of by sold copies, but rather copies shipped to distributors, and basically all digital sales go unreported, how do we even have reliable data to track how well/poorly comic sales are doing? Can't the industry essentially completely fudge their numbers to make the business look more profitable than it is?
>>
>>90511278
Stop being butthurt and don't go around calling everyone a SP just because they said something you didn't like. They already show you that Marvel and DC aren't doing as well as they did before.
>>
Bookstores sales for graphic novels have literally been going up for the past few years.

http://www.cbr.com/looking-at-bookscan-2015/

No 2016 sales yet I think so it'll be interesting to see if the trend continues.

2017 will probably go up considering Rebirth trades and even more Image vol 2.
>>
>>90511456
1, not 2

Less people care about vol 2s, especially the writers if their book doesn't sell as well as they'd hoped, lol.
>>
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1479885942504.jpg
57KB, 600x444px
>>90501829
if comics had more diversity they would make more money the lack of any muslim super heros and that many are western based is why everyone hates comic books.
>>
>>90501829
It's dying because it relies on an out-dated market. It's hard to compete against the ease of access that internet provides
>>
>>90511157
>Retailers match the order for Superman 16 and 17

Thats not true or else they would have the same exact numbers, stop making things up
>>
>>90511157
>most are
>but only if you dont count the ones that fit my narrative


DC still publishes HB and YA books you fucking dolt
>>
>>90511447
they really dont
>>
I think the day will come that Marvel and DC will stop making new stories. They'll turn into reprint farms before print completely dies.
>>
>>90509541
I don't really have any stakes here or there, just wondering why anyone would use Green Arrow of all titles to make any point. At best it would be a surprise success at worst it fails faster than expected.

Why not a blue chip book?
>>
>>90503262
>It has improved recently
Why are you lying to that anon, anon?
>>
>>90501829
Physical media in general is dying
>>
>>90514446
Because people really want to reach to maintain their argument

Or it's just because it was listed as one of the successes of Rebirth.
>>
>>90501829
yes, unless there is a massive change in policy to embrace new delivery methods via modern advancements in consumer technologies; in addition to, adopting and incorporating various standards and practices utilized by international comic-book consumer countries; such as Japan, Spain, France, Germany, and numerous other countries in Europe & South America.

For that to occur, it will take a great breath of bravery and leadership from our own comics' industry to advance another step forward in the long history of comic-books.

Otherwise, we will witness the end of the American Comic-Book, just like the environment.

Goodnight, and god bless /co/
>>
>>90502916
Well lets be fair

2016 was a leap year, so it had an extra day to make money
Thread posts: 171
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