is drawing a natural talent or can one draw good well with

the latter obviously

what is an example of a natural talent

Both.

>>90298208
Anyone can be good at it with enough effort and time.

You need talent if you want to be great though.

>>90298208
Wrong board

File: Screenshot_20170227-203442.png (2MB, 1440x2560px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 1440x2560px

>>90298267
Like I drew this but sometimes I feel like I'm lacking something and it needs to be perfect.

>>90298238
talented like people that can draw really well without much effort.

>>90298208
it's both of course. like most things
a talent is something you're born with, an aptitude, literally having your brain wired up in a compatible way.. but anyone can learn with practice. it's like whether a computer is optimized to run a program or not, you can still probably hack it together and make it work.

also random cartoon drawthread since I cant edit the post. I want to learn from people who draw too. what are your techniques and how much do you practice per day?

>>90298208
Talent is not a single thing, but is comprised of passion (liking art AND wanting to make it), practice, and skill acquired through said practice.

But this is not a srs thread, so you'll ignore what I wrote.

>>90298523
yeah makes sense. I read somewhere that drawing ability and being artistic is a gene thing, my sisters a graphic artist and my other sister used to draw well too, which got me thinking if it was a natural talent or practice sort of thing.

Its natural talent

Most people put in all the effort and practice in the world and are still shit

Don't let these plebs fool you into wasting time

>>90298576
oh no no, I agree with you, the drive to create, to make something is very important, it gives art life.

>>90298624
I guess some people can try as hard as they can but never make their designs look good. but they excel at other>>90298624
tthings

>>90298624
Pleb excuse for people who are too lazy to put effort into things they do.

File: 1488078104414.jpg (261KB, 1145x794px) Image search: [Google]

261KB, 1145x794px

>>90298208
Here is a helpful guide.

>>90298208
>>90298524
People can help you more an the artwork/critique board than they will here
>>>/ic/

To answer your questin: Both. Anyone can draw decently with practice, but sometimes the greats just rise up naturally

>>90298208
Idk I suck

>>90298450
hours studying anatomy, linework, and the disney style respectively?

>>90298866
>/ic/
>helping anybody

lol, fuck that

Drawing always seemed like the kind of ability that shouldn't be affected by talent to me, the only real difference is that the learning process would be slower if you don't have it. It's not like something like singing where you have to be born with the right genes or you're fucked otherwise.

>>90298852
This is some >>>/ic/ level baiting. Speaking of which, >>90298866 if you use /ic/ you will never be worth shit. /ic/ is 90% mediocre artists pushing down other mediocre aspiring artists, 10% drawfag threadery.

Ultimately as hard as you'll try to fight it you'll slip into lazy artstyles sooner or later. Lazy symbolic cartoonish representations without a solid foundation of why those representations exist, or how to adapt or evolve them. However, they'll be good enough representations that you won't feel completely lost and frustrated every time you try and pick up a pencil.

What's important is that you keep moving forward as an artist regardless, still trying to properly render forms and master shapes and lines and all that crap, while using your rudimentary grasp on symbols to make do in the meanwhile.

At the end of the day the 14 year old girl on Tumblr who can only draw chibi but draws shitty chibi designs from her "how to draw manga" book every day until she's overweight and twenty is going to make more progress in her art skill than a 14 year old faggot on 4chan who reads the first lesson of a pirated 40 year old "how to render forms gud" book once a month, gets bored/demoralized after an hour, and puts it down.

The circlejerk about "YOU HAVE TO HAVE THE BASICS MASTERED BEFORE YOU EVEN TOUCH STYLIZATION" is ultimately just elitist autism about how you "should" learn how to draw from a group of people who will never make a webcomic, animate a cartoon, or draw concept art for any meaningful project.

>>90298208
Like all skills in the world, its both. Some people are naturally talented at drawing while other have to work hard to achieve the same results.

There is talent in drawing, but it comes in the form of a certain quirk that comes easier to you.
Some people are better at remembering faces, others have better color recognition, spacial awareness, etc.
All of these can be trained, but some people have an easier time learning it.

Just know what you want to do and aim for that and also never be satisfied with anything. You'll never be good enough but you keep going anyway because you trick yourself into making something slightly better every time.

>>90299110
post work or shut up, faggot. could easily be the blind leading the blind

File: forest two.jpg (2MB, 3000x1125px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 3000x1125px

>>90298208
drawfag here.
Dude it's study and practice.
Even when drawing stylized cartoons you need to be able to draw independently of that style so that you're truly drawing freely and not just drawing in symbols.

>>90298208
I'm an artist and I truly believe anyone can be good with enough practice. It's a skill, just like anything else. It's just that for some reason with art people try once, get frustrated and quit instead of practicing more.

Also it has to be directional practice. You can't just draw whatever's in your head, you have to actually study properly. But if you do it right, anyone CAN draw.

>>90300489
>post work
He can't, he's not an artist. Or at least not a TRUE artist.

>>90300533
Seen a lot of people strive for skill in art.
The belief that there's something inert to artistic skill is a meme and a cancer.
It's a outlook only ever adopted by the ones who don't practice. Sure they may draw for fun and as a hobby. But the most skilled artists I know, ones far better than me got there by hard work.

>>90300489
I'm not saying anything that isn't evident from 10 minutes of internet researching. Tumblr is a haven for drawn OC. /co/, /ic/, and really most of 4chan (with a few notable exceptions), aren't. The Tumblr/Deviantart hugbox format encourages artists to continue working, while the 4chan critique jerk discourages newfags from pursuing further. And when you look at the artists that get picked up by Cartoon Network and nuMarvel, where do they get their start? Deviantart and Tumblr (also /co/ drawthreads for Becky but that's somewhat of an exception).

It doesn't mean that /ic/ is/isn't a good place for drawing, just that it isn't a good place for beginners, and that ultimately it really shouldn't be OP's first place to head to. The sticky is, obviously, very solid but that's about it.

I can't draw for shit.

Question for artists: Can you accurately visualize what you want to draw? If I try to imagine something, I can't quite hold the image in my mind. To be more specific, the image is lacking in detail and quickly morphs into something else. I am thinking the ability to visualize varies greatly in people and that is what determines artistic talent.

>>90299110
you need the understand the foundations if you want to make shit thats objectively good

"Talent" is the inherent ability one has without practice. one may say it's what you're born with.

"Skill" is what is acquired over practice and time. it adds to what one has naturally, and can, if someone without talent acquires skill with enough time and patience, exceed the innate ability of those with "talent."

In other words, good for you if you have talent but if you have skill, you have my kudos, as you took time to perfect what talent you had, whether it was little or great to start with.

>>90300798
You need to draw a lot if you want to make shit that's objectively good. When you're talking hobby artists on the internet, consistent practice is a lot more important than perfecting technique. While the second separates the meh artists from the actually good artists, it's the first that separates the meh artists from those who don't draw at all.

That's why beginners inevitably fall into stylization sooner than they should, and why doing so is key to why they stick around while other beginners drop off early. Fundamentals can be worked on, and improved upon with time and effort, but you won't get anywhere if you don't swing the bat.

File: Snome.jpg (110KB, 971x871px) Image search: [Google]

110KB, 971x871px

There is the idea of a visual library.
Like a visual vocabulary. Sounds vague but it's just life experience lending ideas.

>>90301045
I should expand.
A matte painter is more so the crowd that uses the term. Using references helps a lot but to visualize something in it's entirety is difficult.
Animators would be the most method creatives and would be the most likely to have an idea of what they're doing when they put pen to cinteq.

>>90300759
It's rare for me, so I need references and guidelines. But when I get it right without any of those, it's an amazing feeling.

>>90298852
I'm curious, where do you actually learn traditional draftsmanship techniques? It seems like universities consider drafting training to be all about learning software, and art departments care fuckall about it. Even finding general purpose books is a challenge.

>>90300759
Yes I can, but I've also been practicing for a long time. That's a learned skill that you can pick up over time as your mind's eye gets more intuitive.

>>90300759
Would like more responses on this. Another thing: I could never figure out how to draw things like lighting/shading, folds in clothing/skin. Some people must have 3D engines installed in their brains.

>>90301253
Are you saying visualization can improve with practice?

>>90299110
>just elitist autism about how you "should" learn how to draw from a group of people who will never make a webcomic

You have to know the rules before you break them. The difference between someone having an original style and some one emulating someones style is that the later is restricted to drawing in symbolism.
It's shy you hear "perspective or hands are so hard" a lot.

File: Untitled.jpg (28KB, 600x94px) Image search: [Google]

28KB, 600x94px

>>90301389

>>90298208
Talent is just a word that ignores the; passion, consistency and hard work someone has put into their interest.
So long as you consistently practice and enjoy yourself of course you can be better.

>>90298798
This.
>>90298624
If after 10,000 hours of practice you're still shit.
Practice for another 10,000 hours.

>>90298852
I've just finally excepted this.
I have always wanted to be better at drawing cartoons but without learning the human body.
Now I'm taking time and learning how to draw the basic skeletal and muscular structure and it is already making things better.
I'm still shit though.

>>90301503
You should learn perspective first before you start that

File: M3TR0sV.png (328KB, 848x728px) Image search: [Google]

328KB, 848x728px

>>90298238
>what is an example of a natural talent
Kentaro Miura, at 10 years old, created the manga 'Miuranger." Pic related is the only known scan of it at all. Not a lot of practice you can do up to that point, man.

>>90300759
I hate these kinds of questions. People just need to realize that these art problems never go away and you work on your fundamentals FOREVER not just at the beginning. The fundamentals are there to help you solve problems and simplify complicated projects.

File: IMG_2768.jpg (25KB, 150x203px) Image search: [Google]

25KB, 150x203px

Read the Andrew Loomis books. He answers all your dumb benine questions about talent and tells you what you need to hear, not what you want.

>>90298576
Ambition =\= Talent

>>90298208
Talent will only help learn certain things faster, anybody can draw well with enough practice.

Practice, lots and lots and lots of practice.

>>90302412
Yep. It's the same with most any discipline: the people who are good at it make it seem easy, but it's hard for them too. Practice brings wisdom and acuity, it doesn't make you "good at drawing". It makes you wise at drawing.

File: f50f5318-1bfc-4f5c-afdf-252d823c1dc3.jpg (29KB, 720x540px) Image search: [Google]

29KB, 720x540px

It's practice, dedication, and the ability to look at your past mistakes and work upon them
That's literally it

File: 51mZrjLdPxL.jpg (38KB, 383x500px) Image search: [Google]

38KB, 383x500px

>>90301209
>I'm curious, where do you actually learn traditional draftsmanship techniques?

Architecture or industrial design school.

>It seems like universities consider drafting training to be all about learning software, and art departments care fuckall about it.

You can find places that still force people to use manual drafting for at least the first year. Fuck the art department. Elitist, unemployed fucks.

>Even finding general purpose books is a challenge.

There are tons of older books on the subject. More modern books by architects like Francis Ching aren't a bad place to start. Even if you're not interested in architecture.

>>90302549
You were ambitions enough to make me reply :P

>>90301503
>>90302093
what books are you using/recommend?

>>90302093
For reals?
Thanks heaps, I'll start looking into it.

>>90302412
How is that rant relevant to my question? I just want to know if some people can innately visualize detailed images. I can only visualize very simple things for a very short moment. I want to know if that is normal. I always figured talented artists can see things in their mind as easily as looking at a photograph.

>>90303502
I can do it sometimes. other times I need references and cant draw without them.

>>90303527
An artists who can't visualize well, probably must have to redraw a lot, each time examining the work and figuring out how it can be improved.

>>90303584
I Find myself doing that a lot too. also is it just me or is pencil really the only way to go when you draw? whenever I try using a tablet I can't draw as well.

>>90303704

You'll probably need a bigger-sized tablet, the ideal way to draw is using your entire arm, small tablets are to restraining for that, ends up limiting to the fist

File: checklist.png (3MB, 1400x6521px) Image search: [Google]

3MB, 1400x6521px

>>90298208
this might be helpful

>>90303800
That looks really helpful for people who feels lost like, What level 3rd Mastery would be?

>>90298208

Drawing is a really large field, and different jobs demand different levels of specialization.

There is natural drawing talent, but a big portion of drawing is based on knowledge. Worry about what you can learn and develop, rather than what you have no control over.

>>90302254
so what? he probably started 4 years prior. There's certainly natural talents, people that play the piano brilliantly hours after picking it up. But people like miura probably just had a natural "appeal" to drawing, and thus stuck to it.

>>90298208
My advice to you is just practice and never ever ever go on /ic/.

File: n5hxqauaEv1spaevgo1_500.jpg (119KB, 500x667px) Image search: [Google]

119KB, 500x667px

>>90300759
>>90302412
A healthy dose of DMT will improve your visualization one thousand-fold.

>>90306197
Dmt is hard to find.
The poor man's dmt, dxm + ambien will do the trick in a pinch.
Its combining deliriant and disso to achieve the effects of a potent psychadelic.

Mushrooms in a dark room work as well, and you can also get visuals on acid by taking dxm with it.

>>90298208
Usually it's a combination of both
You need to have an inclination to like and do it, but more often than not, you also need to build up those skills

even if you start drawing religiously, and aquire master skills, you still need to have some artist spark to make things that are worth of your skill.

>>90300681
But on that same note, let us not forget that while its important to have encouragement and to feel good about improving, DA and Tumblr don't have many people who give actual critiques and advice. The problem is that it's hard to find a good in between with places like here and those previously mentioned. You need a balance between praise and critique in order to truly be able to improve. Having too much of one or another can have serious negative effects and stipulation on a person's art and skill

>>90298208
Practising is not all, you must also try to improve.

Chris-chan has drawn all his life and look where is is now.

>>90298208
Lke with singing, practice will make you a better artist, just not necessarily a good one.

>>90306482
To put it clearly:

Draw something. Then, try pointing out the flaws in your drawing, if you don't manage to find them ask another person to point the flaws for you. Then draw the SAME picture again. Then point out the remaining flaws.
Then start again, and again, and again.
If your drawing looks each time better, you are improving.

Protip: Try copying existing art first. That way you can compare your version with the original and find flaws more easily.

>>90302832
Thanks anon, I'll look into his stuff.

>>90298208
Some people learn faster than others, but yea anyone can improve if they practice with focus and direction

File: VAMPIRE.jpg (212KB, 504x754px) Image search: [Google]

212KB, 504x754px

>>90300759
not acurately, no. i understand on an abstract level what i want to draw and the general shape of it but when it comes to actually put in all the details line for line have to come up with them on the spot as i am drawing them.
if i want to make something intricate and detailed then it becomes a refinement process i do the first sketch, then i see what it's missing, i modify it, i drew other sketches with different variationf of the same thing, over and over until i come up with a full design that i like and then i draw it for good. is playing around with it, getting the feel of it.

after years of it you develop an intuiton for it and get to do it in one go without so much refining

It, like most things, is a natural talent. Either you're born being able to do it or you're not

>>90298624
This. If you're not good at it from the get go, don't bother trying to get better, you won't. Same goes for stuff like writing. You either can or you can't

>>90307745
Holy shit please take these toothy nightmares away

>>90298208
Skill = Talent*Practice.

>>90298208
I recently looked over some primary school shit my mom had stored away, and my drawings were pretty terrible, pretty much the same as any other drawing you'd expect from a toddler. In addition they are not better or worse than the drawings my 7-year sister does.

Pratice makes perfect, some people may have a easier time picking up drawing, just like some people have an easier time with certain instruments, but I truly believe anyone can draw given enough time and effort

>>90306482
To be fair, you can't really use Chris Chan since he's an aberrant case, but indeed, if you never step out of the comfort zone you'll never improve

>>90301363
Visualizing shading is pretty easy. One thing it helps is drawing a ball on whatever place you want to be the light, and then you just use common sense.

Cloth folds are harder, I'd recommend just watching references, and practice until it looks good

File: 008.jpg (83KB, 529x622px) Image search: [Google]

83KB, 529x622px

>>90308896
no

Being able to jump into things without asking whether or not they are a natural talent is a natural talent. So basically what I'm saying is you're never going to be good at anything because you're insecure and living an unobserved life.

>>90308950
>I truly believe anyone can draw given enough time and effort
That's an empty statement. Anyone can draw regardless of training. Far less are able to draw with actual skill. It's the same theory behind playing sports or killing. Anyone can do it. But to be able to do it well is something entirely different. That's why those with skill get paid.

>>90299110
There's plenty of artists on /ic/ who are beyond "mediocre" unless you're just as elitist as they are. The problem is most of them don't apply what they know into anything productive.

It takes practice, but it's a thousand times harder to start if you didn't bother to git gud when you were a kid.

>>90300681
>And when you look at the artists that get picked up by Cartoon Network and nuMarvel, where do they get their start? Deviantart and Tumblr
That tells me that the true problem will always be tumblr and deviantart

>>90301363
If you work long enough from observation, you'll eventually memorize the formula of how light works on most objects. All it takes is repetition.

File: fredmoore1.jpg (28KB, 463x368px) Image search: [Google]

28KB, 463x368px

>>90298238
Freddie Moore was natural talented animator for example

>>90298208
Well practice is definitely necessary, but there are also webcomic artists that have been at it for a decade plus and are still shit.

So I guess sometimes you can't win.

>>90298208
Drawing is about not only practice but also development of a mindset of connections that suit you, practice helps in motor coordination of hands, gripping and motion, but stuff like shape balance, consistency and consistent construction are need of self critic analyzing and developing of your own solutions of problems, learning thenics helps, but in some point you need to learm more than just remenbering tons of bookpages, you need to learn how to see a image in the best way to your brain to get it.

>>90302254
>Kentaro Miura
Wait, do you really think that the fack who drew Berserk is any good at drawing? He's mediocre at best, he just has an autistic degree of patience to render his shit, that's all.

File: drawing-a-comic-strip-FB.jpg (295KB, 1200x630px) Image search: [Google]

295KB, 1200x630px

>proko can't even draw visually appealing cartoon dogs

File: defender2.png (217KB, 1577x673px) Image search: [Google]

217KB, 1577x673px

Damn now you make me want to pick up drawing again, I haven't done anything in ages.

Usually just make some model and then trace over it.

File: In New York days the Mets are bums, Ozzoth nil mal get outta here chump.jpg (2MB, 2048x1366px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 2048x1366px

>>90299110
Well, I usually try to avoid the company of other online artists outside of my mentor because I dislike attention, whether it be positive or negative.

However, in my journey as a digital colorist, I've found that working from the bottom up to better yourself is a good way to do things. I didn't quite understand the foundations of coloring, stylization, shading and etc when I first started.

Heck, I was resketching line art, and actually physically creating transparent cels with no protection to the original sketch. It was pretty embaressing now as I look back.

There are some things to be taken from /ic/, they do know what they are doing when it comes to artwork. However, like the rest of 4chan, you kind of half to take opinions with a grain of salt. This is 4chan after all, where no one is immediately nice [barring s4s] because of "Muh Chan culture".

Tl;Dr.
Use /ic/ for personal lessons to better yourself, don't take its opinion at face value.
If you work at yourself, in time you'll see a vast improvement, especially if you try different things. Sometimes you just have to fuck every hole in the wall and see what feels right.