Psy/co/logy Thread

Psychology really is the worst kind of crock there is. What are you going to do, psychoanalyse cartoon characters that have no minds of their own and personalities created by whoever wrote them?

>>78823709

Try Hellboy and Rasputin.

I wanna see you do them.

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>>78823727
Psychoanalysis? Yes, that's a largely debunked element of the field. It's fun, for sure, but more or less useless for diagnosis.

>>78823774
Sadly, I've not seen anything other than the movies...

>>78823786

Hmmm. Johnny the Homocidal maniac then? YOu read that?

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>>78823804
I feel bad disappointing you like that...

However, if what I've heard of it is correct, it's fairly off as far as what's known about dissociative disorders.

>>78823819

What have you read then?

>>78823819
What is Bugs Bunny's problem?

>>78823709
I've missed these threads.

How about Hugo Strange? What's your taken on him?

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>>78823839
I don't do comics much. I've read some of the broader-based graphic novels like Watchmen, DKR, etc. I'm more of a cartoon watcher. That being said, I am well-cognizant of the character's personalities, even if I'm lacking in detailed knowledge of the newer arcs.

>>78823848
First, ask what about him is maladaptive? What part of his life isn't 'working' properly?

>>78823855
Hugo's diagnosis is interesting because it's a functional form of a lot of neurodegenerative schizophrenic conditions. The sad thing is that, considering the stress he's probably gone through in his professional career, it's not a stretch to say that his personality is shaped by a form of Korsakoff's Syndrome. TL;DR, Strange probably drank himself crazy.

>>78823895

Beavis and Butthead then

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>>78823937
I've always had it in my mind that these two were actually under the observance of a social worker at all times, considering how low their functionality was. The time between episodes was that mystery person cleaning up their messes throughout town, etc. and explaining their shenanigans away. A lot of people talk about medicating them within an inch of their life, but it looks like they self-medicate well enough.

>>78823709
>he thinks that psychology is a real science
Real cute anon

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>>78824086
As opposed to what? Scientology? Homeopathic psychiatric meds? Why the angst against the field?

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Analyze this, please

>>78824133
As opposed to any other field where you don't have to put "maybe" and "sometimes" after every statement?

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>>78824227
I don't know of any field other than raw mathematics that deals in absolute certainties. And we're fully aware that we're only getting started with understanding the neurochemical makeup of the brain, to say nothing of how all the external stimuli that bombard it change it every second of every day.

That being said, it's better than nothing, we work on empirical data, we learn from our mistakes, and the world would be far worse without it.

>>78824202
Fairly cut and dried ASPD. His early experience with the killing of the cat inured him to the suffering of other beings, and this, through contexts I can't figure out from this panel, changed his thoughts on murder from a neutral to a positive. Then it evolved into thrill killing ala Gacey. What would be interesting about this guy would be to learn what turned it into a positive experience for him.

>>78823709
>If there's something you want to know about the mindset of your favorite /co/ related characters, then ask away.
Nah. I'm fine, if I want to read the psychoanalyze of my favourite character then the creators often examine their characters mindset while accepting to answer questions for interviews.

Take Rick Grimes from the Walking Dead (comic): He developed a Nietzschean mentality - he who fight monsters- he is aware of what he could become and try to fight against the monster within, that's why he didn't kill Negan, it wasn't out of his own humanity or goodness of that sort, Rick wanted to prove to himself there is still good in himself. Rick is also a megalomaniac with an obsessive controlling poweress.

Also,
>I don't read comics much
Fuck off or take this to >>>/tv/

>>78824396
Well, it is Comics AND Cartoons, after all. As for Rick, I like him from a philosophical standpoint because he embodies in a 'living' person the zombie metaphor.

Katz from Courage the Cowardly Dog.

>>78824653
Hmm, I'd never considered thinking about Katz' psychological makeup before, but that's why I like coming to /co/, you guys think of stuff I never would. So, let's see what Katz likes to do, since he never has an overarching motive. He likes to deceive and possibly murder people. That's indicative of a severe lack of empathy you find in people with ASPD. The fact that he uses people for his own jollies without a care to their wellbeing implies a defined hedonism.

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Everyone always says Joker's the one obsessed with Batman but on more than one occasion it appears that Batman is just as obsessed if not more.

What do you think, is it mutual?

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>>78825159
Batman always seems to be obsessed over Joker because he keys on the one thing that Batman has as a weakness. I've posted on this a few times, though it's been...well years. Joker is the one villain that A: is in most canons directly created by the Batman B: homicidal. Batman, as I've looked at him, has what I've termed mortephobia. If I were to actually put it on a diagnostic, it would be 'Specific Phobia - Homicide'. Batman has a pathological fear of killing other people, even when, especially in the Joker's case, it would benefit a much greater number of individuals to commit such an act. This is the warrior's dilemma of ethics. A soldier who is not insane knows that murder is wrong. A soldier must be expected to kill to defend their country, ergo a dilemma. This is easily stepped around by adding some Kantian principles of the value of good and evil, and it works well enough for most people. Batman, however, can't get to this point, due to the trauma of what he witnessed as a child. As such, he's in a unique predicament. The Joker is, by Batman's understanding, an creation of his, not unlike a son. This creation violates regularly the one tenet he abides by: do not kill. He's also in the much when he has to consider that not killing him allows him to kill even more, and that killing him is one of the few acceptable, but to him impossible outcomes of his life. Joker is Scarecrow and Riddler all wrapped up in one for Batman.

>>78825288
Now I wish I majored in Psychology.

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>>78825366
Trust me, if you don't live in a larger city, or one that doesn't have an extensive healthcare network, don't even put your foot in the 101 classroom. I made that mistake and had to spend two years listening to paedophiles cry about their prison food.

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>>78825288
nice

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Was MJ right? his cancer at the time aside,

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>>78825654
Dave Grossman's 'On Killing' gives a sobering look at survivor's guilt and how it effects survivors of traumatic events as well as aid workers and soldiers. I won't ask about the cancer since that can shade things, but what MJ is talking about happens very often. There was a dramatic upswing in cases of alcoholism and drug addiction in NY following 9/11, and it's not hard to connect the dots on that premise. For someone who felt such a connection to Ben as Peter did, suicidal ideation isn't out of the realm of possibility, especially when someone has lived for however long this Spider-Man has with his superpowers but tagged with the guilt of his inaction as well. Each rescue adds to that flame, and though I don't agree with her (totally guessing, I haven't read this) leaving him, she's right.

>>78823709
Know Venture Bros?
If so, I've never been able to come up with a god explanation for why Dr Orpheus lied to 21 about being able to resurrect 24. He had a really nonchalant attitude about it previously and claimed it was his old job. So if someone is offering him good money to revive their friend who recently died, why not?

>>78823709
Wonder Woman

>>78825794
I only watched it up to about season 2.

>>78825943
What about her? Going to need a little more than that.

>>78825288
But wouldn't that be q lynching? I figured Batman didnt kill for both moral reasons, and the fact what he is doing is barely legal to begin with(an anonymous volunteer private black ops contractor for law enforcement)

>>78825988
Perhaps how she deals with her duty as an Amazonian/Missionary Messiah and her Little Mermaid syndrome as a Mans Worldaboo?

>>78825988
How does Marstonian Psychology(as seen in The Emotions or Normal People and DISC theory) come into play with her?

>>78826024
The legal/ethical ramifications don't enter into the killing element. It's a separate conversation. Whether it's legal or ethical to kill someone, which it sometimes is under certain conditions, doesn't matter to Batman. He strictly will not, no questions asked.

>>78826068
It's a tightrope she has to walk. She lives in a society where women rule in a near-utopia, and yet she has to resist the urge to become the bastard child of Sarkeesian and Trump. Of course she acts as the living billboard of the supremacy of the Amazonian culture (not speaking in my own opinions, just as it is presented), and has to put up with how she has to 'keep silent' in the 'man's world'. Funnily it's an even better critique of feminism than I think most of the authors were even intending.

How does it effect WW? I can't imagine anything less than high stress, as well as aneurysm-inducing levels of anger at how ineffective and backwards male-dominated culture is.

>>78826087
Actually, what's hilarious is that his assessment would later be used to enforce unethical hiring practices later on. Not to knock or dismiss it, it did after all help with the development of the Briggs/Meyers, but I can't help but get a chuckle at that knowledge.

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>/co/mrade Lenin is back
YIIIIIIIIIIISSS
I'd like a psychological evaluation of J Jonah Jameson, please.

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>>78826363
People actually remember who I am? That's kinda neat.

JJJ is a fun character. He's archetypal as the yellow journalist and the muckraker, but a lot of people have noted his more noble side when the cameras are off. So what motivates a person like JJJ? If you said profits, you're not terribly far off. But this isn't a bad thing necessarily. Does he go to the point of libel and beyond when talking about Spider-Man? Yes, but that's only because he values success, and clearly he is able to keep his business profitable on the back of that. If glorifying Spider-Man would profit him, he would, but it doesn't, ergo neither does he. The neat thing is that this is totally in opposition to his personal views on Spider-Man. I'm often reminded of that one instance where JJJ gives a speech about how Spider-Man is the hero NY deserves.

What's neat is how this ties into how most business people are often, surprise, surprise, dissociative. These people oftentimes have two greatly differing personalities, though they don't completely split from one another. That is to say, JJJ can be both a Spider-hater AND a Spider-fan at the same time. It's the same thing about how a CEO can give a million dollars to charity while thinking nothing of how his business practices impoverish people.

Actually, that's straying close to /pol/ territory, so I'll leave it at that.

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Have you read Howard the Duck?

>>78826581
have you checked out gwenpool?

her mental state is pretty clearly explained but I figure you might get a kick out of her rationale.

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>>78826621
Oh dear, now I'm wishing I had. Would you like me to elaborate on any part of that? If I had to just throw something out, body dysmorphia is becoming more and more common in recent years. There have been a large number of people hospitalized for dismembering themselves with the hope of being given prosthetic limbs. It was at first thought a kind of Munchhausen's, but then the diagnosis changed when they wanted the limbs. Actually a little spookily close to pic related.

>>78826701
Again, no. My work environment keeps me from keeping fresh with new releases, so I've given up on it until I'm a civilian again.

>>78826279
I want to get a Psychologist view on Marston's theories and how it effected Wonder Woman.

Are you aware of them?

>>78827771
Oh, thought I had. Heh...

To be specific, WW follows as a CSID. For all of her strength of both will and body, she nonetheless is under orders most of the time, orders which she rarely contradicts. This is compounded by her rigid Steadiness, in that her convictions, whether or not they're misguided or noble, are unshakable. Think of all the times that her orders have been a central element of the plots to her stories, especially when it comes to her having to weight a greater good against them. Her other two elements are nearly identically low, IMHO. In her obedience, she is rarely, if ever, influential, and there's a reason she's the matron saint of bondage stuff when it comes to her dominance. The past few years have been doing a lot to undo the damage, but at this point it's iconic for her to be the good Amazonian princess/warrior. Who gets tied up a lot.

>>78827156
That comic isn't necessarily indicitive of Howard as a character desu. It's more just one of the weirder characters hes met.

I would think the issues where he has his nervous breakdown and subsequent incarceration would be the most telling of who he is as a character. He describes himself as "the inheritor of his parents frustrated dreams". He says he tried his hands at any number of careers, construction,nteaching, panhandling, folk singing (which "didn't pay as well as a bum, but satisfied one or another artistic urge, at least for a while",) but found "his only real talent was job searching". The arc ends with Howards mind fracturing itself i pieces (including "the grandfather, who has no wisdom to offer the future generation: only jokes," and "the grandson, who understands... But still thinks the jokes are funny.") before reassembling.

I would love to see that whole arc analyzed.

>>78827937
What are your thoughts on Marston's psychology and how they manifested in the Wonder Woman books.

Have you read or familiar with Emotions of Normal people?

>>78827960
Would be fun, I think!

>>78828030
I'm not familiar with the works, per se, I only remember them being mentioned tangentially when I was learning about the Myers/Briggs.

>thought about getting into psychology all those years back
>realized it wouldn't pay
>studied chemichal engineering instead
>developed a complete distrust of social sciences while learning exact ones
>now I get to be a productive human being that pushes humanity forward

How does it feel OP knowing you are literally a burden the rest of the human race has to carry around all the while patting your head and telling you that you are very important

>>78828208
what is it about STEM fields that turn students into sociopaths?

>>78828208
So pay = value to society? I can't even tell if this is bait. Points for eff...nah, not really.

>>78828279
That's not what was said, but okay, misconstrue the point.

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>>78828275
It's typically a superiority complex brought on by thinking that anything that bases itself on anything other than mathematical certainties is somehow irrelevant. It's equitable to (ironically for my pen name) Communism. Sounds good on paper, but awful in practice.

>>78828275
the sudden realizing that this world doesn't run on psychology. Or in sociology , or in politics or in PR managers.

It runs on materials. Processed materials. It runs in bridges, houses, waterpipes, processed food, medicine, vehicles and fuel. It's not about the pay as >>78828279 gets so defensive because he knows what I'm talking about. It's about people who literally rest on the shoulders of the profuctive part of society all the while convincing the others that they are doing something. We don't need the ammount of politicians we have. The ammount of psycoanalisis and socioanalysis we have. We need more people that can build bricks. More people that can bring water to places that don't have it. More people that can create industry and innovation in medical fields. It's about making the human race live as good as it can.

Yes there are bad companies with bad industries with unethical practices but the human being doesn't run on hedonism. That's why lefties are often middle class people with privileges like the one >>78828362 used as a pic. Because the people who studies these things are those for which society pays. They are those that want society to give them their material needs while they talk about the state of conscience of the apple while it rests.

Humans do need psychology to some extent. But they need to live better lives more. And they can't. Because of all these people that build excuses so as to not give anything to society and just take. And it's sad really to know that they are deluded into a complex of moral and intellectual superiority in which they think that people who build all the stuff they use on a regular basis are somehow intellecually inferior beings

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>>78828470
Fret not, I know exactly what you were talking about, albeit that diatribe just proved>>78828275
correct. I've heard it a thousand times from people with STEM jobs, because they think in the strictly visible, with no consideration to the idea that there is such a thing as a psyche or psychological damage. They don't question or call out the MD or the dentist because they can readily see the work they're doing, even though they're just as 'parasitic' as he's claiming a psychologist is. After all, that person doing the gastric bypass surgery on you, Mr. Galt? Just a parasite standing on your shoulders.

Now, other than your massive superiority complex, what's troubling you?

>>78828470
we have enough people to do those things already, throwing even more architects and engineers into the job market won't make companies become more charitable, it'll just make it harder for engineers and architects to get jobs. you've failed to prove that psychologists are a burden.

>>78828603
I never stated that a medic was as parasytic as a psychologist. I literally quoted medical advancement as one of the things humanity need. You are literally just changing my speech to suit your needs because you can't say you are a productive member to society. Psychology will never be as needed as ER medics are. I even said humans do need psychology to deal with trauma issues and other problems TO SOME EXTENT. Psychologists are far too many for the need the society has for them. And next time you are the one being performed the bypass, you might as well think what you will bring into the society in which that doctor lives in to save your life. Is the life of a person who only makes other people's lives more difficult without giving them anything even worth saving? yes it is but how can you sleep at night knowing that? because you are just like >>78828696. A hypocrite that's so self deluded in it's superiority complex it will NEVER stop to look around and see the people around him. Also I wasn't saying the world just needs more engineers I was saying the world needs more practical people but there you go again literally changing my speech to suit your needs. It's okay though I'm not offended I'm used to it by now

>>78828066
Oh boy here we go

http://www.angelfire.com/indie/jamietakot/Article3.htm

>Frankly, Wonder Woman is psychological propaganda for the new type of woman who, I believe, should rule the world.”

>“The freshmen girls were led into a dark corridor where their eyes were blindfolded, and their arms were bound behind them.” Then the freshmen were taken into a room where juniors and seniors compelled them to do various tasks, while sophomores hit them with long sticks. “Nearly all the sophomores reported excited pleasantness of captivation emotion throughout the party,”


This is a good summation

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2014/09/22/last-amazon


Also his book outlining most of this theory

https://archive.org/stream/emotionsofnormal032195mbp/emotionsofnormal032195mbp_djvu.txt


Critical Excerpts


http://pastebin.com/SVYU6Wxr


Also this

http://www.hoodedutilitarian.com/tag/bound-to-blog/

I and other s have been studying this for years, a Psychologist perspective would be invaluable

http://desustorage.org/co/search/text/wonder%20woman%20messiah/

She is literally built for a Plato/Sappho/Jesus/Mahatma disciple system. Etta, Cassie, Artemis, Donna, Vanessa, Aleka: here are her disciples, with Aleka as Diana's Gabrielle. The Kapatelises, Paula von Gunther, and Cassie Sandmark as apostles.

I'm talking the salvation narrative. Wonder Woman is a messianic archetype, she needs to be sent from paradise have a miraculous birth and come to save man's world from its evil. Does she bring utopia by peace? Or by war? Submission? Or inducement? Philosopher Queen of tyrant? God-Mother or God-Wife. Or both?

Go "New Testament" meets a reversed-gender John Carter and Hellboy, with a perspective that had magical worlds and gods playing against men with her as the messianic stalwart against chaos. She's Jesus with a skirt and lasso. There is a reason why WW was the first hero to reform her bad guys. And there is a reason she was a virgin birth.

She's a representation of the higher, benevolent and loving authority that we've been fantasizing, worshiping, and theorizing since we crawled from the mud, given flesh and wrapped in our flag to defend freedom. Wonder Woman is the heroic distillation of that part of your brain that wants and needs the god mother. The feeling of breastfeeding or praying to the cross or having a boo boo kissed, of asking for help or Heiling the Fuhrer, all compressed into a perfect woman who will punch a Nazi and tell you its okay, before turning that Nazi into a good guy. Wonder Woman is the ultimate and pure representation of love as power. She's every god or mother reformed into a new 4 color superhero.

>>78828696
Actually, weren't a lot of the people involved in mass murder lately hailing from STEM work? Not saying there's a correlation, but it's amusing that someone who says there needs to be more people like him clearly need more people like me.

>>78828810
Psychology is medicine. Again, because you're not seeing the effects of it in physical form, you dismiss it, but this is fallacious as it is irresponsible.

>>78828470
But Humans operate all that. The science of how Human thougjt amd behaviour processes and forms is highly critical.


We can find out how lightning works, why shouldn't we do the same for poltics, relationships, culture, emotions,personalities and characters?

It worked hell of a job for Ad execs and polticians.

If it exists it can be studied analyzed and theorized into a hard science. Everything from why we like the color blue to why the color blue exists. Its metagaming reality.

>>78828810
the fact that your on a comics and cartoons board rather than in your garage or whatever demonstrates that media creators like myself are warranted.

and I'm gonna end it here because last time I got suckered into a conversation like this I got warned, temp banned, and 24 hr banned simultaneously for three different posts. Good night.

do Galactus please!

>>78828470
>The world doesn't run on psychology
>Goes on to describe a world run by people, who, literally run on psychology
>Humans aren't fundamentally hedonistic

Why is it scientists tend to drop scientific thought when applied outside there field? Nobel luaretes in electronics talking about weird ethnic monkey shit and this chemic engineer making a diseased sociological rant.

>>78828985
What really is there about him to talk about? Unless I did my usual Rip Van Winkle trick, I thought he was just an intergalactic superbeing that fed on planets and was essentially the galactic id made manifest with purple spandex.

>>78828603
The idea that the human psyche isn't just as mechanically oriented and understanable as any other part of the world is batshit retarded. It clearly exists, so why is studying it understanding how it operates and using that do our benefit any different than doing it for Quarks or Gluons?

Is there some imaginary line where science ceases to exist and fairy dust takes over or some shit?

The Human brain is a complicated organic machine whose structure and operational can be reverses enginered like any other.

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How about Megatron?

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Machine Man pls

>>78829152
Pretty simple revolutionary turned dictator isn't he?

I wanna see the dude do all the Marston stuff though.

>>78828470
>And it's sad really to know that they are deluded into a complex of moral and intellectual superiority

Holy shit are you for real?

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>>78829097
It's a difference of scale. By the way, on your logic, what's the point of studying Quarks, Gluons, or knowing anything about Planck lengths, etc.? Haven't found a legitimate, tangible use for that, have you? Parasite, wasting my research dollars. And you don't even fully understand the Gluon yet, that's the real kick in the nuts.

Inasmuch as you don't understand how the five forces interact with each other fully, psychologists, psychiatrists, and neuroscientists don't yet understand the full neurochemical makeup of the brain, how it can be altered, and what it means for mental health. But, just like you, we're getting there, and helping a lot of people along the way. Just like you. We really can get along, or we can continue to throw faeces at each other like chimps. Ball's in your court.

>>78829152
Megatron has (in most runs I've ever seen) always been similar to General Zod. Someone who follows an otherwise amoral social code, but in order to maintain it becomes positively immoral when faced by a moral counterpoint. That positive/negative theme is fitting for a setting about giant robots, I think. People dislike change from something they are used to, even if it wasn't a positive thing they had been brought up in. Take the incidence of people raised in abusive households who grow up to themselves be abusers. Objectively, they'd just as soon not hurt anyone, but in order to keep their mental equilibrium they lash out. Sad, but poetic almost when you think of the rhythm it creates.

>>78829186
I've read recently that a machine has passed the Turing Test. I'm very excited to see where artificial cognition is going, and the implications it has on ethics.

>>78829188
It's going to take me a bit to get through the information you've provided, especially because the glitches in the scan make it hard to pick up on the context occasionally, which is a shame because this is pretty insightful, and I'm only a chapter or so in.

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Can you do Invader Zim?

>>78829475
But they are tangible benfits to quarks n shit, that's why i used that analogy. the idea that understanding the operating system of literally all action isn't somehow practical is retarded


the psychology isn't real science meme must die

>>78829898
Inferiority complex. Delusions of grandeur. I'd probably have more to offer, but that show is one of my guilty displeasures. I never liked it.

>>78830091
We are trying to understand it, and psychology is a real science. What are you even trying to argue?

>>78829475
There is a physical scan you want to read if the txt is too off.

Also read Secret History of Wonder Woman.

Pastebin has some choice bits.

https://archive.org/details/emotionsofnormal032195mbp

>>78830148
I was saying people like that guy up there are fucking idiots who rag on psychology

>>78823727
Remember CCA.

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Either of these two guys. I'm a bit more interested in Jackknife; the guy just can't stop pulling violent crimes even though he knows he'll be caught and thrashed every time.

>>78830460
I always figured the theme song was meant to apply to him
life outside jail is too weird an alienating from what he remembers as a kid, but life inside jail when he gets back is also too weird and alienating compared to his first experience in jail. he just keeps running from both jail and society because neither feels like home anymore but he doesn't know anything else

>>78830460
Institutionalization is a very real thing, and it's disheartening to know that someone like Jackknife, even if he never commits a huge felony like murder, will never see the outside of a jail cell because he is conditioned to only know the prison system, with the outside world being terrifying for him, more terrifying than armed bands of gang-rapists...and the inmates. The Shawshank Redemption had a very moving scene that touched on this.

>>78830790
[email protected]

My email, I would love to have your contact info for future articles and interviews and such

>>78829898
What's interesting about Zim is he's willing to work with others as opposed to Dib who insists on going solo.

He invariably betrays them, but still.

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I'm off to bed, everyone. Hope the thread lives, but I had fun while I was on. Cheers!

>>78831625
Great thread, OP. Hope to see you tomorrow.

>>78823709
Hope you're still here /co/mrade. If I could ask, what is your degree? I hate when people pull armchair psychology since I'm in the field myself, but some of what you're saying seems pretty well informed.