He's never coming back is he? I want the real Wally West,

He came back already. They just slapped Jay Garrick's name onto the guy and put him on Earth 2, where hell happened.

Wally is DOA until the next reboot. Or when the Flash TV show tanks when Warner Brothers orders it cancelled so they can push the god-awful movie instead.

Wish they would at least fucking shill Wally trade paperback-wise to shut people up and flesh out the puny selection of Flash TPBs out there.

They brought Wally back already in Convergence.

Sadly, it was simply so they could torment fans by teasing them over Wally existing before wiping out Wally from existence in favor of the Nu52 universe.

They should just pull a Sensor Girl and be done with it.

Put Wally in the Blue Lantern Flash costume (modified to have a full on faceless hood with no eye or mouth opening) and have him running around the New DC Universe. He has Linda as his wife, the same two kids, Wally had, but they explicitly NEVER NAME him as Wally or show him unmasked.

Same way Sensor Girl was supposed to a masked version of Supergirl, in order to get around her death.

>>78298386
It does suck that the only Wally trades are Johns volume 2 run. Least the Morrison/Millar run comes out next year?

>>78298474
I want a full, comprehensive run of the entire Wally West Flash series. Think Hellblazer with 10-15 issues a volume, uniformed trade dressing, and shit, starting from the very beginning (which has never been reprinted).

Barry Allen is the one true Flash you heathens

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Wally and his family are all living in Keystone, retired, having a good life. Nothing you can say will convince me different

I just want good Flash comics

>>78298522

Keep the dream alive. or try to get floppies and custom bind shit

>>78299918
Go back to cereal shopping, Geoff Johns

>>78298522
You can find the entire volume in Comixology. That's all you're going to get.

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They fucked him up even more when they cast this faggot as him in the CWverse

>>78298284
DC should take advantage of its "Multi-Multiverse" or whatever the fuck it is and do some shit with the characters people know and love.

But deep down, I know that they just did the "everything still exists!" thing so that they can say that they never got rid of their old characters, while proceeding to do absolutely nothing with them. Which is functionally identical to how things were before Convergence, because it's not like the comics with the old Wally West disappeared. Saying "the character isn't wiped from existence, he exists in a timeline/universe that there will be NO STORIES published about in the future" is functionally equivalent to saying the character has been wiped away.

>>78300101
Oh come on, we've only seen him for like, five seconds, give him a chance.

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Bump.

>>78300101
>>78300435
And honestly, those five seconds were a million time better than New 52 Wally when he was introduced.

>>78300369
>do some shit with the characters people know and love.
If Lois & Clark wasn't selling like shit they might have bothered but the sales numbers say they really have no incentive to do so

>>78298347
E2 Jay Garrick is nothing like Wally.

>>78300005
Nah, that Earth is gone. It's why Pre-Flashpoint Superman is on the current earth. There's no Pre-flashpoint Earth to go to.

I suppose, technically, Wally and his kids are still around because they were in Convergence and, thanks to Wally, can just universe hop for awhile but Linda is dead as shit.

>>78298284
Why would you want him back? Barry's a vast improvement. Dude's got a TV show and is getting a movie, Wally as a character isn't strong enough to support that kind of stuff.

He's a side character who got an unusually long character arc because Barry's death was held sacred for too long. That's it. His role's played out and he's better as a kid sidekick for the long foreseeable future, which is where DC's got him now.

>>78303679
???
Are you retarded ?
Have you ever read anything Wally related? He's the definitive Flash

>>78298284

>real flash

>at the height of his popularity he was basically Barry Allen anyway

DCAU fag who never read the flash before JL confirmed.

>>78303967
Way to dodge my point. He's literally only so highly regarded because he happened to be in the right book in the right era. You stuck Barry under Waid or Johns or Morrison's pen for 20 years and he looks good, too.

Oh wait, we've seen Waid and Johns and it WAS great! Go figure! We're about to see Morrison taking his swing with Multiversity, too. And it's all gonna be great because Barry's a great character who, on top of being better than Wally at their cores (Wally's gimmick is literally he's not as good as Barry), is a character who you can branch out and do interesting shit with.

You know, like TV Shows and movies. Wally's not the definitive anything. His lack of iconic value is literally why Barry came back, so that DC had someone they COULD market and use for bigger things. Wally isn't that, never was, never will be.

Maybe he'll go the way of Nightwing, get his own little book and his own little cameos here and there in the comics, but he's certainly not fit to be The Flash anymore.

>>78301114
While I've been the guy defending Barry in this thread as very clearly superior, I will say it's a shame what happened to the extended Flash family. I feel like, to some degree, they could've stuck around. Linda was a much better character than Iris ever was and I feel like there's a place in the world for Wally and his kids.

Just not as The Flash.

>>78298284
What a fucking disaster, shame for DC

>>78304971
Bar Tor or whatever is about as bad, if not worse, than NuWally. It's almost like it was intentional that everyone but Barry was ruined in the Flash franchise.

>>78304133
Barry only became interesting after they air lifted everything from Wally and gave it to him. And then made Barry the center for all things speed.

>>78300005
Been trying to find them online. Outside #1 and #92, they are pretty easily affordable but it's fucking hard as hell to find decent size lots of them, especially the early issues.

>>78300369
They could have solved that had they told SJW to die and made DC You all about pandering to the old school fans. Kill Nu52 dead by using Convergence to kill off Nu52 Batman, Barry, JSA, Superman, Titans, etc and flooding the Nu52 Earth with the Pre-Nu52 versions of the characters as far as giving fans what they fucking want.

>>78303470
Have you read ANY of the New 52 Earth 2? Dude was so fucking much Wally West, pre-Marriage but Post becoming Flash it's scary.

They should have just gone the adoption angle and brought Wally back as Kid Flash.

It's 2015 and a black man raising a white kid would not raise eyebrows and actually would have let them have their black Wests on the TV show and still pander to the Wally fans who don't want a race-bent Wally.

>>78305224
He was the heroic voice of reason and maturity amongst a group of bickering egos. I couldn't imagine a less Wally character. He was like Jay Garrick but younger (and thus less assertive/commanding about his voice of reason abilities).

Atleast that's what he was before it all went to shit and I stopped reading.

>>78298284
>Wally West
Literally WHO?
There's only one true Flash and that's Barry Allen, the FIRST Flash.

>>78305113
What did they lift from Wally aside from "Now Barry deals with the Speed Force, too!" ?

And yeah, they updated him with some nebulous power up thing. It's the same shit that happened with Wally when Waid invented the Speed Force and the same shit that happened when Bart "absorbed" the Speed Force.

Maybe if that universe went on forever Bart or Wally's kid would've created their own Speed Force or some shit that was bigger and better. It's comics. People get stupid powerups all the time.

The minor details aren't really the sticking point. It's the core character. Barry, as a concept, is infinitely more versatile than Wally. Wally has one character arc as a sidekick -- live up to his mentor. Wally's story arc should've ended at Terminal Velocity, if not earlier at The Return of Barry Allen.

Barry? Barry is a great premise that acts as an open canvas. You get the modern interest in hokey CSI bullshit mixed in with all the cape bullshit you could want with The Flash. Barry is the kind of character you can give to any competent writer and they can turn out something gold. It's the kind of character you can freely make vastly different media like TV Shows and Movies about.

Barry is infinitely more interesting than Wally. Wally is a one note wonder, cramped by his own narrow premise, stretched out by good writing. The writing was good in SPITE of him being a lacking character. Again, Wally only got industry juggernauts in Waid/Morrison/Johns to pen his "great" runs that everyone swears by. The second you toss mediocre writers onto him his sales tanked and DC got him out of the starring role, as they should've much earlier.

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>>78305372
>First

>>78305532
>Thinking Jay Garrick counts

>>78305532
He's on the MAIN Earth, he's the one with THE show, HE'S THE ONLY ONE WITH A BOOK TITLED FLASH WHERE HE'S THE MAIN CHARACTER.

>>78304946
There's no reason they can't bring Linda into the supporting cast. The show did it.

>>78304971
You don't deserve to have Wally back.

>>78305964
If they bring adult Linda into a comic where Wally is 12 then that's gonna be really shitty and bad and weird. The non-Barry characters have suffered enough without them fucking up Linda who, frankly, serves no place outside of being Wally's love interest.

Like, she's a reporter but that's already Iris' schtick. The TV show's got 20 40+ minute shows to juggle a bunch of pointless characters. Unless you're bringing back Pre-flashpoint Wally there's no sense in bringing back Linda.

>>78305964
Barry banging Wally's wife and stealing his dad and sister is the weirdest fucking thing ever and confirms my suspicion about Johns always wanting Barry over Wally and secretly hating Wally for not being Barry. So now he's taking everything he can from Wally and, through creative input on the show, giving it to Barry.

He's the only person on that whole crew who knew Linda existed and had to have been the one who pushed the idea of her being Barry's first non-Iris hook up.

Johns is fucking sick.

>>78306180
Deluded much?

>>78301114
I have a feeling this sequence was just an excuse for the artist to draw a close-up of Wally's ass.

>>78306455
Not my fault you can't see the truth.

>>78304133
is this b8?

>>78306112
Thinking like that is why most comics these days have shit supporting casts.

Linda could be a friend to Iris, she could be a doctor as she was in later parts of Wally's run, she could straight up have a different personality due to being a different person. Iris and Linda don't have to just be pieces of cardboard for a Flash to kiss.

>>78307040
In what way is it bait? Everything there is true. Wally is not The Flash and won't become The Flash again and it's for the better. There's a lot more creative space with Barry. Wally was The Flash for 20 years and, what, was a bit part in a cartoon? Barry comes back and he gets an animated movie, a TV show, and a real movie all within 8 years (assuming Flash movie presumptive date).

This is shit you couldn't pull with Wally as your Flash. You might like his stories a lot but, fuck, if you had read Barry's stories first I guarantee you'd prefer Barry. There's nothing special about Wally aside from him existing when you were a kid and being the guy Waid and Johns broke their teeth in on. Wally's not that good a character, he just had the benefit of some good writers.

>>78307072
If you're just gonna insert a random character who's nothing like Linda Park then why use Linda Park? Just make a new character. It's pointless to bring the name back divorced from Wally in the comics. Iris hasn't been someone for The Flash to kiss in the comics and she's been awful for it. Linda has a role and she was wonderful in it, stop trying to pervert it just for the really, really marginal name value.

In the TV show who cares, it was probably just a wink to the comic fans from Johns before anyone knew if that show was gonna go the distance.

>>78307215
You really can't think of any characteristics of Linda Park besides her relationship to Wally? 20 years of comics, some of the best writers in the business, and there's nothing that makes her Linda besides Wally West sticking his dick in her?

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I miss him /co/

1/2

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>>78307951

2/2

>>78298474
>Morrison/Millar run
Wasn't Morrison basically ghost writing all of Millar's shit up through Red Son and probably Ultimates 1?

>>78306455
That's over the top, but it's no secret that Johns has an enormous boner for Barry and has done everything he can to displace Wally.

>>78298386
Well, there's at least a new Johns Wally trade recently out, and there's supposed to be more.

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>>78298284
>one true flash
>not talking about Berry Alan

You serious? You may not like Berry, but he is the first.

>>78303967
Not the guy you're replying to, but I think it could be argued that either Wally or Barry is the definitive Flash.

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>>78308658
>implying Barry was "The first"

>>78303679
>He's a side character who got an unusually long character arc because Barry's death was held sacred for too long.

I'm 48 years old. I should be making your retarded argument and even I know Wally's run was amazing.

>>78298522
Fuck yeah, I love that whacko Messner-Loebs stuff.

>>78305372
>Barry Allen, the FIRST Flash

leave and stay leave

>>78298284
Wallyfags are the new HEAT

>>78307832
Well, there was the time she was possessed by the spirit of a medieval Irish bard.

>>78308658
> having this picture

what, you're too patrician for Rustle?

>>78309072
>Wallyfags are the new HEAT
hal had nothing going for him except an ass that won't quit

barry was great and so was wally but passing the torch was one of the things that made Flash excellent

>>78309072
We're not organized. Yet.

>>78309072
More like the KKK XD

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>>78307154

>>78308987
Yeah, anyone looks amazing with Waid and Johns writing them for so long. That's not the point. He's still a narrow side character. His entire character arc is "I finally lived up to Barry's memory."

Why oh why would we be invested in the guy who is literally just trying to be as relevant as Barry when you could just have Barry? Imagine Waid and Johns writing Barry for 20 years and he has "great runs" too.

Only now you have a character you can expand on in other media. Even WAID said that Barry should be The Flash forever because of his ability to exist in other media. You know, Waid, the guy 100% responsible for the character of Wally you know and love, thinks Barry is unanimously the best choice for the Flash title.

>>78307154
While you're speaking the truth, I'm just going to warn you that the only replies you're going to get are shitposts.

>>78308283
Not all, no. The first couple of issues they do together on Flash are very good, but then Morrison leaves and Millar does an arc by himself and that sucked.

>>78313136
Yeah, some people are too blinded by nostalgia to realize that yes, Wally had respectable stories written about him but that in no way makes him the best or even a good choice to be The Flash anymore. He ran his course, he's where he should be.

Not that I like Wally's Venditti, but back in the sidekick role is where he belongs. Maybe some evolution into a Nightwing esque character with a not Flash name.

The Flash is Barry Allen and it's going to be forever and it SHOULD be like that forever.

>>78313150

How the fuck Barry is better than Wally? He's just the cliche one note hero and that's all he amounts to.

>>78304133
>Way to dodge my point. He's literally only so highly regarded because he happened to be in the right book in the right era. You stuck Barry under Waid or Johns or Morrison's pen for 20 years and he looks good, too.
Except Johns was unable to repeat his success with Flash when he did write Barry. So, where were his intrinsically superior qualities there?

You're right about Barry being better for other standalone products, since Wally's premise requires a previous Flash, but there's nothing "limited" or restricted about it once you go past that introduction.

>>78313183
"Cliche" is a weak word. Supeman as Clark and Batman as Bruce are every bit the same cliche and they're both the definitive, irreplaceable version of the character.

You might say he's "boring" because he's had a lack of 20+ years of development compared to Wally but that's like saying a fresh block of marble is boring. Sure, yes, when you've put no time and effort into it it's not very exciting but it has such amazing potential.

Wally was more like crayons in the hands of a master artist. They made the medium look way more interesting than it actually was.

Like I said, you're disagreeing with the guy who CREATED modern Wally as you know and love him. If even Mark freaking Waid, who absolutely loathed what they did to Wally so much so it was one of the main reasons he left DC, can admit "Yeah, Barry should be The Flash like Bruce Wayne and Clark Kent" then who the fuck are you to disagree? What's your reasoning besides "Well I liked those comics in the 90s" ?

It's not about the quality of Wally's old comics that you like. Barry's comics can easily live up to that quality given similarly talented writers. It's about the cross media appeal and the vast array of stories you can tell with him that you can't tell with Wally. Barry is 100% the superior choice to carry The Flash title.

>>78313227
Rebirth and Flash Volume 4 sold every bit as well as any point in Wally's run. The sales only dropped relative to ALL sales dropping at that time. He still sold better than Wally did when they cut him off in a time where comic sales were at their worst.

So clearly people wanted Barry more. And with the movie and TV show people will continue to want Barry more. Barry is the draw, Wally is the side attraction.

Wally's such a legacy based hero literally everything is restricted about him. All of the things you love about the character force writers to account for his entire overwrought history to make room for a good story. It's why he floundered the second the strong writers left his title.

Fuck, even when Waid came BACK to his title the "he has a wife and kids!" restriction turned out a largely forgettable run. Waid! The guy who has the best Flash run EVER imo couldn't salvage the mess that Wally became. Wally's arc should've finished years before that but they kept hanging on, thinking "Wally's so good!" when it's not Wally who's good. It was Waid when Wally was relatively fresh and John when he revamped the villains -- the same villains that Barry has, mind you, so you're losing practically none of the REAL quality of Johns' run when you swap to Barry.

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>>78313229
>"Yeah, Barry should be The Flash like Bruce Wayne and Clark Kent"
when did he say that? also barry will never own the title like bruce and clark does, get over it. i don't care who says that and i'm sure i'm not alone.


> You might say he's "boring" because he's had a lack of 20+ years of development compared to Wally but that's like saying a fresh block of marble is boring. Sure, yes, when you've put no time and effort into it it's not very exciting but it has such amazing potential.

It's been four years and we're yet to see anything from him or his side cast about that. Best Wally stories were told through death of Barry like "The Return of Barry Allen" and I'm not sure Barry will ever have a story that can top.

> Barry's comics can easily live up to that quality given similarly talented writers.

too bad you have venditti and manabooch duo that only had good art.

> It's about the cross media appeal

scott lang says hi

> Barry is 100% the superior choice to carry The Flash title.

that's your completely awful opinion, man.

>>78313256
>So clearly people wanted Barry more.

no one wanted barry back when he came back. people gave a shot because of wanks and it being hyped by johns, that's it. we all know everything popped like a balloon after.

>>78313288
With Waid it was all over here when he brought up that, now that Barry has breached the main stream media barrier, he should continue being The Flash ad infinitum like Bruce and Clark have.

The Manapul and Johns runs were very good. Not quite as good as Waid's run but Waid is a better writer than Johns and Manapul so that makes sense.

And yeah, Venditti was a mistake. I'm not defending Venditti but imagine Venditti writing Wally. Oh wait, you don't have to imagine it -- we have it! And it's awful! Venditti would've ruined Wally the same way Bilson and Demeo did Bart or the same way Cavalieri fucked up Wally. Shitty writers make shit.

Scott Lang is hardly the best example and Hank Pym is a LOT easier to write off than Barry. Wally is a character entirely based on Barry. Take that away from him and the character falls apart. Lang can stand alone pretty well.

>>78313314
Convergence Flash sold better, despite people having Barry for years without Wally, than Convergence Speed Force.

Wally isn't the draw you think he is. If they came out with a title called "Flash: Wally West" with Pre-flashpoint Wally it'd flounder even harder than the Pre-flashpoint Superman book happening right now. Is that what you want to see, Wally coming back for 6 issues selling below 20k and then going away for good?

Just remember his past run fondly and accept that's all you're getting. If you want Flash then read Barry. It's what Didio's been saying for years and he's right.

>>78313380
>Convergence Flash sold better, despite people having Barry for years without Wally, than Convergence Speed Force.

this is such a dumb argument holy shit. the title not being "the flash" alone effects the sales, you know that right?

>>78313409
It dispels the myth that the comic reading world is starving for Wally West or that they want Wally particularly more than Barry.

I imagine if Wally was headlining The Flash it'd be selling around the same. And for that same level of value you get a character with no cross media appeal. Wally brings nothing to the title as The Flash. Atleast as a sidekick he's a good contrast for Barry. That's his best position.

>>78313456

lol no, it doesn't prove anything. the fact that his books sold solid after all these years and the addition of his notorious kids proves the opposite.

but hey, you can always delude yourself.

>>78313550
Right, and if you look directly at the spinoff Superman series it's sold like shit. Speed Force got the same "Big event" bump and this was the, gasp, return of Wally West after all these years! Certainly the enormous groundswell of support I've been hearing about for him all these years will skyrocket the book. The fans will be heard! Wally won't be denied!

Only there wasn't any groundswell. It sold middling as you'd expect a runoff event title to sell. There's nothing special or wanted about Wally. His fanbase is loud, but small and irrelevant. If Convergence Speed Force had knocked it out of the park, if there really was this strong contingent of Wally as The Flash fans who were craving it then I'd concede and say, for the purposes of comic sales, maybe DC should bring back Wally AS The Flash. In another book, sure -- still need Barry as the main Flash for cross media purposes, but it'd be undeniable that Wally would sell on the strength of his character.

Only we know that isn't true. Wally wasn't strong enough to sell especially well here, to sell years ago when Johns left, wasn't strong enough to sell when Waid came back, wasn't strong enough to even give The Flash title a particular bump in his fated return (before everyone knew Venditti was gonna ruin it). There's nothing inherently great about Wally and there's mountains of proof in favor of him being worth little. The only thing I hear to the contrary is "But but but the Waid and Johns runs!"

Which means jack shit, as I've painstakingly pointed out already.

>>78305372
There's so many people unironically thinking and saying this, it's not even funny anymore. Okay, a little bit.

>>78307832
All of her characteristics are great in contrast to Wally. Most of her characteristics are redundant if you put a well written Iris in the book.

Look, man, Linda Park and Wally West were a great couple. Their story was a love story, and a good one at that. If you want another reporter who is Iris' friend who has a similar personality to Linda then sure, make that character, but don't split up Wally and Linda when the ONLY REASON you're doing it is to rehash the Linda Park name. As much as I love Linda her name has so little value that you gain nothing by jamming it into the background as a bit character in Barry's book.

Just like I wouldn't bring her back without Wally, I wouldn't bring back adult Wally without Linda -- atleast not in the long term. This isn't a "LINDA'S ONLY VALUE IS AS WALLY'S COCKSLEEVE" it's much more sympathetic than that.

Like, seriously, tell me what you want them to do with Linda in the current Flash book. What purpose would she serve? Why would you forever break up Wally and Linda just to reuse her name that itself as little to no value?

>>78305749
>>78305865
>I said something wrong and idiotic that shows that I'm just a casual, so now I have to resort to dumb excuses

>81 Posts, 11 image replies
>Zero people mentioning Titans Hunt

Man, I thought it was just a meme but /co/ really doesn't read comics

Wally had a perfect run by Morrison, Waid and Johns in the 90s and 00s.
Why would you want to ruin that by bringing him back into the New 52?

Just read the old stuff and be happy that those hacks cant butcher your character any further.

>>78313918
There is no evidence he's coming back in Titan's Hunt

>>78313918
There's no Wally in Titans Hunt yet even if they're teasing it super hard. Even so it might just be the current shitty Wally that no one likes.

>>78314110
Uhhh anon, I've got some bad news for you.

>>78313903
Jay's cool and all but, aside from the color scheme and super speed he wasn't really much of a precedent setter for The Flash.

>>78313858
DC has done an excellent job burying Wally so hard and destroying him so effectively that most Flash fans nowaday don't even know who he is.

Which is hilarious because Wally showed up like 2 years after Barry debuted and has been synonymous with The Flash. Less relevant now than he was as an actual sidekick.

>>78313903
Not the same guy.

>>78313288
That's a lot of bullshit, anon.

Who's Morrison's favourite Flash? He's probably the only person with enough clout at the moment to bring back Wally.

>>78322159
He's said he likes Wally but he wants to write Barry more, which is why the next Multiversity issue is gonna star Barry.

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>Batman gets to keep his 5 sidekicks from pre-n52, but DC has to erase Barry & Wally's relationship because reasons
>Jay Garrick is now some shitter on Earth 2, and he doesn't even have his cool hat
>Jesse Quick doesn't exist
>Iris West doesn't exist
>Max Mercury doesn't exist
>Jenni doesn't exist
>Bart is...who fucking knows

Why does DC hate the Flash franchise?

>>78322552
It's literally "Not Barry? Who cares." That's how it's been since Rebirth.

>ITT: Racism
I wish /pol/ would leave

>>78323009
While being changed into black is shitty and stupid and bad and DC should feel bad about it it still sucks that we lost the Wally West of the last 60 years.

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>>78323009

>Hurr Durr you aren't allowed to hate nu-Wully because he's black

You are part of the problem, you fucking parasite