Why are we stuck in the "Modern Era" of comics that

Someone has to make a comic that has as much impact as Watchmen or DKR had when they came out in the 80's

>>78251847

There is no next era. Comics are dead. Long live TV dramas and superhero movies.

>>78251929
This, comics are literally a meme hobby. Don't bother.

File: 1406628244683.jpg (63KB, 948x712px) Image search: [Google]

63KB, 948x712px

>>78251929
>>78251944
getting serious
Comics are stancated because most creators are wannabe filmaker, nostalgia fags or talentless hipsters, we lack people pushing the medium to new bundaries and we really can blame hollywood this time.

>>78252070
How do you push the boundaries?

>>78251847
You could argue that we're in a new age considering the popularity of webcomics and the major shift in tone of comics in recent years.

>>78252129
That a very difficult question. I'd say try to be authentic and your own authenticity will produce something novel.

We will not grow past this as long as we don't grow past superheroes.

Nah, we're in the event age now

>>78251847
You're talking about mainstream comics here, yeah?!?

>>78251929
>>78251847
evrything's stagnated here aside from technology.

Best thning you can do is make something good, pour your soul into it, and hope it gets picked up for a movie deal.

What /co/ wants the next era to be: Marvel and DC comics enter a new renaissance of creativity and popularity, and become read by every household.

What the next era will actually be: Marvel and DC movies and television shows will be enjoyed by every household, but Marvel and DC comics become forgotten and superseded by competing publishers and competing business models.

/co/ is a bunch of old dinosaurs who cling to the past and fear the creator-owned future.

File: ben.jpg (5KB, 259x194px) Image search: [Google]

5KB, 259x194px

This is nothing new. We are never in a good time or bad time unless there is something actually affecting the market such as in the 60's during the CCA or during the 90's when everybody and their grandmother grabbed a polybag of Death of Superman

Hell, even then we still had guys like Kirby and Busiek who dared to go against the norm and tell the stories they wanted to tell

Wait another 10 years and then reflect upon the times we're living in. You'll find that there's at least one guy, one single guy, who tried doing something new, different, unique, controversial, and everything else they want in a story. Its that one guy who's the most important part of the industry, because to him it's everything but an industry

>>78252705
Get it right, it's the Garb Age.

>>78253199
A new era doesn't necessarily mean higher sales. It just means something new, and different to what has gone before.

But instead of that as the other anon was saying we just have people trying to out-canon each other because they're talentless cunts.

>>78253373
That is by no means guaranteed.

They're going to call this the Cinematic Era of comic books. Because so much of the art design and writing style have been wither borrowed, inspired by, or keyed to match the movies.

>>78253501
But it has been guaranteed

It's called the last 100 years or so

It's gonna be the dawn of the sci fi pulp comic book. Mark my words, it'll make a huge comeback.

>>78253532
I'd say 2001 to now is Widescreen Era

>>78252492
>i want something new
>define 'new'
>f-fuck you i'll know quality when i see it
Is there a word for these people other than retarded?

>>78253199
>What the next era will actually be: The Movie and TV empires Marvel and DC create for themselves crumbles after the mainstream hops to the Next Big Thing. Unable to continue with comics and merchandise sells alone, DC and Marvel go under.
>After DC and Marvel are gone, so are most physical comic book retailers, causing the mainstream comics industry to colapse.
>Image's demise comes much like it's previous one: In-fighting between the many creators under it's label and the dry up of merchandise sells, causes it to become an untrustworthy place to do bussiness. Fans are scared off by constant delays and a honestly lackluster line up (composed of several friends of Graham and Kirkman that got books do to nepotism instead of talent).
>Valient and Dark Horse die soon after
>So dies the Western Comic Book market

>In the rest of the world, shit is going just peachy.
>France, England and other nations of Europe continue to produce comics like they have for the past years, to the same niche market
>Eventually America gets invaded once more by Japanese invaders, this time in the form of a substitute to their lost artform: Manga
>America surrenders to their new Weeb overlords and I buy the final volume of the Vertical release of Gundam The Origin.

What would you guys call the defining comics of each era, an the comics which kickstarted them?

>>78251847
Isn't the era from mid 80s-2000 counted as one, and then a new era since the 2000s?

>>78251847

>Modern Era of Comics

We are in the Indie Era where Image, Dark Horse, IDW Vertigo, Fantagraphics D+Q publish good stuff. If you don't read comics or only read DC and Marvel shit, of course you'd think that we are stuck because all they publish is same shit altogether and they aren't even trying anymore. You can obviously see they just can't reboot the same old characters AGAIN so they just change the race or the gender just a bit to appeal to mentally handicapped and man children.

And that's where indies start.

>>78253601
You think Valiant and Dark Horse would die AFTER Image?

Also, I just assume more publishers would follow Fantagraphics and its ilk in abandoning the LCS and moving to the bookstore.

>>78251847
>What is the next era?
The Tumblr age

>>78253861
>You think Valiant and Dark Horse would die AFTER Image?
Kinda? In my doomsday scenario, Image actually bites it before DC and Marvel are fully "dead", due to fatc they are so big even thou they have like two books keeps lights on at the office (Saga and TWD) but since Valiant and Dark Horse are smaller and have a "nicher" appeal they could last a while longer falling back on their usual audience.

My point is really that, that DC and Marvel are too big to survive on just their main fanbase anymore and once that movie well drys up, that's it for them unless they down size.
Other companies market to their own niche and have a smaller size can survive without becoming "multimedia empires" therefore avoiding those pitfalls.

>>78255046
Marvel will survive way longer than DC becasue for them to die it would depend on Disney dying, which is a laughable proposition, in this lifetime at least.

Image is doing fine in terms of finances, not raking it in but competently making enough return money to continue printing at a profit.

>>78255179
>for them to die it would depend on Disney dying, which is a laughable proposition, in this lifetime at least.
Or for them to stop turning a profit and the Disney execs to decide they are dead weight. Marvel now has corporate overlords that have only a monetary stake in the company, if the profits drop then so will their interests. And if Disney dumps them, then they are back to how they were in the 90s, but without movie licenses to sell.

>Image is doing fine in terms of finances.
Again, as I said, they are mainly living off TWD and Saga, and good only knows for how long those are going to keep going. People are already kinda tired of WD (after the Tell Tales game kind of stole the spotlight of the IP and the new TV show seasons kinda poisoned the well) and Saga's creator is more interested in the selling movie/tv rights and trying to become an ideas man in Hollywood than actually creating the book.

>>78253583
You can't predict postmodernism, that's the whole point of it, actually.

>>78251847
The SJW era

>>78252129
Take ideas and structures that aren't generally found in the medium and apply them to the medium. Pursue uninhibited creative freedom, without concern for marketability. Throw shit at the wall until something sticks.

For comics, I would say starting a mature imprint and hiring talent outside of the comics industry would be a good start. 12-24 issue series with actual story structure and narrative weight.

>>78255783
>imprint
Oh, for a moment I thought you were talking about the medium as a whole, but I see now that you're only interested in the two biggest and most commercial publishers.

"lol".

>>78255463
>as I said, they are mainly living off TWD and Saga


Where are you getting this from? Chew often also appears in top ten graphic books. So does Manhatten Projects or East of West.

And it seems to me you do not know how IMAGE works in the first place.

And Saga's creator has his very own platform, panelsyndicate, and they have produced some great stuff like Private Eye.

Considering all your arguments are build around NOT comics, but movies/TV, am I wrong in assuming you do not actually read many comics and are here for cartoons/general superhero stuff?

>>78255835
No the same ideas could be applied across the medium, but in order to popularize the change and/or afford talent, you need financial backing. Image and Dark Horse might be able to pull this off as well.

>>78255046
>>78255463
I'm honestly having a lot of trouble understanding your posts because I'm not sure that you understand how Image works.

What is it that you think that Image actually does? Are you not aware that "Image's comics" are made independently of Image, and that Image is only a tool for printing pages, stapling/gluing them together and shipping worldwide? What do you think that they do which requires so much money to keep running?

>>78255893
Why does the popularity of a comic matter to you?

What's wrong with low-selling comics from low-volume publishers pushing boundaries?

>>78255835
Do you think anyone at Image is pushing the boundaries and fully taking advantage of the medium? Most just write scrips to sell to hollywood later.

>>78255942
There's nothing wrong with it, but that already happens. I assumed we were discussing how to make changes to the industry as a whole.

File: this is a picture of a comic book.gif (851KB, 1445x974px) Image search: [Google]

851KB, 1445x974px

>>78255955
Brandon Graham, to be honest.

But actually, I have to wonder why you think that there are only three publishers. When I think of people pushing boundaries, I think more along the lines of Chris Ware or Olivier Schrauwen or Richard McGuire publishing through smaller publishers like Fantagraphics.

>>78255993
Alright mate, I see what you're getting at. I'm sorry for being aggressive before. Cheers.

>>78252070
This, the only writer I see enthusiastic about doing this is Morrison.

>>78256015
>Brandon Graham, to be honest.
pffff

>>78255903
>and that Image is only a tool for printing pages, stapling/gluing them together and shipping worldwide?
And you think that shit is cheap?
That only means they aren't pay salaries directly to the artists/writers nor paying for the production costs of the book (actually paying for the ink, material and accessory staff used) and instead giving them a cut based on the sells.
Even if they don't use the same artist/publisher model that DC and Marvel do, that doesn't mean they are that less expensive to keep up and running, they still pay for all the things you said plus whatever smaller marketing these books gets, keep the site running, etc. And as I said, that is part of the problem since most creators seem to wanna ride the comic book movie hype train and sells some movie/tv rights and then become Hollywood idea man.

>>78256038
Morrison doesn't push anything. All he works towards is a future of "more superheroes" and "more movie adaptations".

Has he convinced anyone to buy the adaptation rights to Klaus yet, his newest Zenescope-tier affair?

File: HEAVEN.jpg (42KB, 800x800px) Image search: [Google]

42KB, 800x800px

>>78256015
brandon graham is based as fuck, mobeius 2.0 with a dash of evan dahm

GIVE ME MORE ISLAND AND LESS FURRIE

>>78256068
I really don't think you get what Image does.

>>78256068
It means that it's less expensive for Image to run than competitors like Dark Horse and Valiant who have to develop, manage and edit their own intellectual properties in-house, as well as license external properties and give them the same treatment.

>>78256038
I love Morrison but you need to branch out. Milligan is someone you should try out, especially his Enigma. There's also Beautiful Darkness and Beauty. I would say Moonshadow is an early example of pushing boundaries and Moore obviously did some stuff like Watchmen or From Hell that fully take advantage of the medium.

>>78253199
>What /co/ wants
>Marvel and DC
nope, stopped reading

>>78256049
Who else is attempting what he's attempting with projects like 8House and Island?

Even when they result in failure due to low sales, they're more ambitious than what I see anybody else attempting in the mainstream.

>>78256118
Oh and Farrel Dalrymple is one of the best indie guys around, his work is tremendous, Pop Gun War, It Will All Hurt and The Wrenchies are amazing.

>>78253373
his name is Michael DeForge

>>78255955
Image is the third biggest commercial publishers.

You are not being interesting and oh, so obscure, by reading IMAGE:

>>78256135
Island is just an anthology, nothing special about that. He just got a bunch of his friends to do work on it and he's god some very talented friends(but also some furry porn people, and buddy, let me tell you something, promoting furry porn artists is not pushing boundaries or doing the industry a favor)

>>78256135
Are they really that novel though? Island is just a comic anthology with him and his buddies. I'm not too familiar with 8House, but isn't it just another comic book universe? How is that pushing any boundaries?

>>78256135
>Who else is attempting what he's attempting with projects like 8House and Island?

Countless of people in Europe. What Graham is doing, that is the norm here.

>>78251847
I think it will be technology driven.

Computerising the art, meaning one artist can do the whole process, without the need for inkers and colourists. A program will be created that allows anyone to create a visually clean and decent comic.

>but computer aided comics look obvious and shit

They do now. 10 years ago they were ugly and obvious, now they are still kinda easy to spot, but better. In 10 years, they will be even better.

Once comics can be done quickly and cheaply, they can produce more a smaller staff. Cut out the middle man and sell through on-line. More weeklies, or just longer comics.

Age of the mass produced comic.

>>78256242
You mean like webcomics?

>>78255463
Marvel is the most profitable film franchise in history. it's the bew Disney princess for boys bow.immortal

>>78256258
He's getting at something similar, yeah. He's implying that technology will make it easier in general for people to make comics. And he's probably right.
Regardless, I think webcomics are definitely a big part of the future of the medium. Honestly, I hate to say it but stuff like MSPA really showed a lot of people what you can do with comics on the internet.

>>78256135
>Who else is attempting what he's attempting with projects like 8House and Island?

8House isn't even pushing any boundaries. It's just a straightforward series with a retarded numbering scheme.

>>78256258
kinda. Those are the early forrunners I think, but I think in 10 years it will be on an entirely different scale.

If making a comic becomes easier, then more indie people will pop up creating the comics. most will be crap, some will be cult, others will be popular. Corporate comics will have to find a way to compete, and I think that will be via IP and quality assurance.

>>78256335
>If making a comic becomes easier

I'm just thinking of that picture of Tim Buckley copy-pasting panels of his comic.

Truly, he was a visionary.

>>78256180
>>78256206
Other anthologies are pretty unambitious in that they're "safe". Nobody will be surprised by what they're reading, nobody will ever be shocked and offended by 2000AD or DHP.

Island actually has a goal in that it's about "mainstreaming" non-mainstream content, like porn artists (Ovens) and small-press & self-publishers (Michael Deforge) and putting them on the same shelf as high-profile names.

>>78256206
>>78256312
8House is a creator-owned shared universe of 5 different series (three minis and two ongoings). It's a fantastic mess of intellectual properties tangled up and forced together to see how different creators can find new ways to cooperate.

>>78256368
>it's about "mainstreaming" non-mainstream content
Well, then it's failing
>like porn artists (Ovens)
not a good thing

Most of the stories in Island are pretty safe actually, and not all creators involved are great. DHP at least had Brendan mcCarthy do work for them and he's far more ambitious as a storyteller than...Ovens.
You push boundaries through storytelling, not attempting to break into the mainstream and failing.
The Tipping Point from Humanoids is a better attempt at what Island is trying because it plucks some of the best writer/artists in the whole wide world.

>>78256458
I'm not putting forth Ovens as an example of an ambitious creator.

I'm putting forth Ovens as an example of someone who doesn't belong on the shelf of your local LCS shop, so an attempt to put her there qualifies as "ambitious" for me.

>>78256368
Wow, a shared universe? How ambitious!

>>78256368
I can kinda see your point about Island, though I worry that doing stuff like, having a furry-porn issue will only push people away during a time when comics really need to draw people in again. First couple issues were pretty great though.

>>78256493
It's not ambitious, it's just forcing your shit down someone else's throat(and I mean it because if ,say, you're interested in some of the creators involved in Island and you're buying the thing, you're bound to get hit in the face by shit like Ovens despite not having any interest in such thing. Basically, by wrapping up a turd in a beautiful package you're basically shoving your shit down someone's throat)

>>78252686
Bitch please.
I read comics about the four horsemen of the apocalypse and Chairman Mao's granddaughter in a dystopian Wild West, and slice of life comedies about sentient, transforming giant robots in space.

Superheroes aren't the ONLY comic books out there.

>>78256512
Small shared universes (like Valiant) are common.

Shared universes owned by one creator (like Hellboy) are uncommon.

Shared universes owned by a dozen creators (like 8House) are rare.

>>78256585
>>78256493
Not the same anon, but I think it's "ambitious" at least in that it's a lot of work. Seems kind of like a misguided waste of effort, though.

>>78256598
It's hard for the average reader to appreciate that, though. Which I think is what matters?

>>78256610
It's not even a lot of works since he's personal friends with most of the creators so they're just a phone call away. Not to mention that you're losing sight of what the thread is about. Darlymple is ambitious, Graham is not.

>>78256598
That's the equivalent of saying

rich superheroes are common

poor superheroes are uncommon

middle class superheroes are rare

>>78256673
If you don't appreciate his behind-the-scenes work, if you only appreciate his up-front work, are there any other mainstream American comics like Multiple Warheads?

>>78256692
Would you care to explain your reasoning for this post?

>>78256780
same shit, different asshole

>>78256832
You think Hellboy is shit?

>>78256867
It's pedestrian.

File: 1449420858543.png (160KB, 437x597px) Image search: [Google]

160KB, 437x597px

>>78251847


Anons don't know what they want, and it gets hard with a lot of hipsters that really doesn't know what can make a difference on the medium, but pretend to know, and look everything else with cynism. A new era is not hat you like or not, and isnt exactly pushing boundaries, its a lot of factors together, that ends up influencing the a great part of the medium.

I have the feeling that we are on the age of transmidia of comics, where they are integrated on mainstream media by games/movies/shows, and also on an age where there are a lot more of "conections" a bigger web of influences and some retro appeal mixed wiith political ativism too. In the end, these things reflect on comics, and the comics ends up reflecting and remodeling them, but in a totally different way than on the past eras. Its kind of an era of interactivitty...

Really, you usually can just detect an era, when its long gone. In my opinion we are probably lefting another era behind, but I am not sure what is coming on the way, or we had just entered in a new one.

"pushing boundaries"

>http://cryptoscatology.blogspot.com/2015/12/the-cryptoscatology-top-ten-best-comic.html

>>78256962
>Vaughan and Morrison
>literally "It's high-concept so that makes it good": The Recommendation
This was almost a respectable list.

>>78257059
>not liking Morrison.

I found the fag.

>>78257164
Did you open the link and see how his comic is recommended?

this is somewhat unrelated, but it looks like DC is slowly losing market share compared to Marvel and Image. Not because they are shit, but they've made some fucked up marketing decisions.

What would you do to turn that around? Personally I think they should focus on the grimdark feel they have going on in the movies, by making an imprint (or move some main titles to Vertigo) aimed at older readers, much like marvel MAX, but with the stories being canon to the main continuity, and less being edgy for the sake of being edgy. By targeting the same audience as Marvel, but not having the popularity from movies to back it up (As their movie universe grows, they will get more fans, but these fans like the grimdark aspect of the movies), they are shooting themselves in the foot. Obviously series like Starfire and Grayson etc should stay how they are, changing their tone would turn them to shit.

>>78257248
I wouldn't save them.

Go ahead. Let them fall to #3 or even lower. If the market can survive without them then I don't see any problem. Marvel too, I don't care if they die.

The future is better off with IP owned by the creators.

>>78256922
You mean your taste is pedestrian

>>78257464
Not the same anon, but Hellboy is kind of lackluster. The concepts and characters are great but it just feels so... empty. Mignola wastes too much page space on WHAM and BOOM. BPRD is much of the same, really cool characters but the "everything is falling apart and hopeless" tone makes it seem kind of boring.

>>78257310
In other words, you don't have a solution and needed to thump your chest again.

>>78257549
An entire industry dominated by two publishers and one genre is the biggest problem facing comics in North America.

The end of the Big Two is the best solution to save comics.

>>78257310
It'd be pretty cool to see characters from the DC universe being sold off to Image or Dark Horse, or even just moved to Vertigo.

A lot of capeshit should be sectioned off into it's own little universe imo, things like Mutants and the constant Batfag/Superfag presence bleed their way into the average comic because they are just so damn prominent in their respective universes

>>78257617
That's not how Image works. Image doesn't own any intellectual property other than the "Image" name and the "i" logo.

>>78257599
>The end of the Big Two is the best solution to save comics.

No, the reality is that even if that happened, and comics were saved, you'll still be bitching about something.

>>78256360
*If making good comics becomes easier.

>>78257676
If you say so.

I don't know why you're trying to make this be about me instead of about the comics though.

>>78257676
Let's refrain from flinging shit at each other dude

>>78257727
Cause this is how threads like these go. No one comes up with believable solutions and then resorts to lazy ideas like "destroy the big two" probably to bump the thread up and complain about any sign of progress because it's not like Japan or Europe or something. I mean I know people at Comics Journal were doomsaying as far back as the 80's but they at least put their money where their mouth was with Fantagraphics (even if they almost had to shut down a few times). Shit, people complain about Alan Moore being a complainer, but at least Moore and others are involved with that Electricomics thing.

Pretty sure we're in something like the Media Era where the TV shows and films based on the comics are more important and the comics are just fodder. So much so that characters are changed to be closer to their TV or movie versions. And I'm sure the internet figures into that as well with trying to aim at certain demographics and marketing online.

>>78257809
I'm not saying that we should destroy the Big Two (as if that's something that we have the capability of doing).

I'm saying if the market is _already_ destroying the Big Two then we should simply stand back and let it, as there is no benefit to stopping their destruction if the market can survive without them.

File: The 'Can an Accidental Collision on the Way to School Result in a Kiss' Experiment 035.png (717KB, 960x1400px) Image search: [Google]

717KB, 960x1400px

>>78252129
think outside the box.

>>78251847
THE CRISIS ON INFINITE EARTHS WAS NOT THE BEGINNING OF A NEW "ERA" IN COMICS, YOU FUCKING MORON. WHY DOES /co/ BELIEVE DUMB SHIT LIKE THIS?

>>78259693
Why do you think that typing in all caps will convince people to listen to you?

>>78259765
It's all he know.

File: 66_06[1].jpg (389KB, 1000x1537px) Image search: [Google]

389KB, 1000x1537px

I would like to know when comics will ditch the first person stream of conscious that is so universal across the medium in the present comics industry. It just illuminates how little the average comic writer actually has to say, and usually it just clutters the panels with captain obvious observations like "oh man this fight is really tough" and "I'm sad". What would be appropriate for a new era is a renaissance of 3rd person narration with more literary qualities than what the silver and bronze ages displayed.

Interestingly, The Visions utilizes a 3rd person narrative, which is very rare these days in Big 2 comics.

We're in the tumblr era.

>>78262361
3rd-person narration was one of the best parts of the 2012 relaunch of Prophet.

>>78252129
Chaos magic if Moore and Morrison are any indicator

>>78262454
>>78262361
Agreed. Prophet and Vision have some great writing, and though obviously there is more to it than the choice of PoV, just the fact that it isn't using the formulaic structure of comics now immediately draws me in.

I think the reason first person stream of consciousness turns me off of things now isn't even that it's overused but that it's a surefire sign of another "average joe gets superpowers and bumbles around with sitcom drama whilst fighting crime" comic rather than something even vaguely original.

>>78251847
Nonrepresentational thought/dialogue bubbles

I read Gaiman's Overture last month. >20+ years in the making
>work of art
>beautifully written
>a greatly crafted story that has a lot of tie-ins to the older ones

Sure, we might be in some shit-tier, mediocre modern era of comics; but there are works being made currently that break the mold.

>>78262589

First person can be done well, but is inherently more limited than 3rd person narration. Doubly so if its a superhero comic, where elaborate reactions to things which occurred on panel is as deep as anything gets. 3rd person narration can communicate tone and themes more effectively than first person narration, which usually serves to comment on things as they occur.