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One thing I liked about Korra was the relationships. It wasn't

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One thing I liked about Korra was the relationships.
It wasn't Disney tier bullshit wwre it was true wub at first sight. They were messy, undefined, chaotic, the fell apart and were still born and had ups and down. These were young adults and they were horrible at this, was was w wonderfully unique and refreshing in animation.

Even with the adults, Toph has some hookups they don't work out, and she became a single mom. Very in character for her to not wind up some guys wife.

Or Tenzin and Lin, werre he left her for a younger woman because they disagreed about having kids.


Tlok in geberal avoided the lengghs towards sanitation a lot of kids fiction does, and for that I commend it.

It wasn't a GOOD series mind you, but credit where credit is due,
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I strongly disagree. All hookups happened without any chemistry or buildup - Couples only formed because the plot said so.
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>>78248881
shit taste general?
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You have horrible tastes and I have no reason to put trust in anything you say.
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>>78248899
Which is exactly what people thay age do, and they all turned out ti be horrible messes.

The whole Mako thing was brilliant, it wasn't Disney Princess, it was teenagers who werent able to habdle there hormones dealing eith relationships they weren't grown up enough to handle.

Korea and Mako rushing to a relationship, said relationship turning out horrible, ending, and then having awkward fallout they had to work to get over was Fucking brilliant.
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i really like the first season them everything went to shit, i hate the relationships korra was a bitch.
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IRL "buildup" leads to friendzone. Sometimes you're supposed to think with your dick.
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>>78248881
I do like that there's this sentiment that the old Team Avatar didn't grow up to be perfect adults and parents. Even loving families end up with baggage.
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>>78248881
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>>78248881
The relationship s in Korea reminded me of college.

Jesus Christ was that bullshit.

But OP was right, stupid hormonal bullshit romance instead of magical fantasyland three day love at first sight bullshit was a good choice.

I am actually looking forward to the Korrasami comics to see how she fucks that up.
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>>78249117
>The whole Mako thing was brilliant
anon plesase

no
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>>78249117
My problem with this is that it wasn't a show about how awful teenage romances are. If you want to include romance stuff just have it work out so we can focus on the interesting things instead. Or make it the main focus of the show so we can actually focus on it or move on to something else.
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>>78249320
>Korrasami comics to see how she fucks that up.
Nothing would make me happier than Korrasami failing, but i doubt it will. And if they break up i fear it will only be temporary.
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>>78250543
People aren't monodimensional robots, the team dynamics are key to any group.

It's like watching a rock biopic and expecting it to be all music videos
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>>78250586
I'm not even sure what you mean. All i said was get the boring stuff out of the way. Romances in action cartoons are generally boring and it was even worse in LoK because it made half the main cast less likable. If they want to do romance in it let it be disney like it'll be over quickly and we can move on.

Or if you want teenage romance drama, make a show about that instead.
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>Toph has some hookups they don't work out, and she became a single mom. Very in character for her to not wind up some guys wife.

Fuck no. As a child of overbearing parents her natural progression would be to end up as a careful parent, not a whore that doesn't even know who sired her kids which she essentially abandoned.

Korra completely degraded her character and turned her into a tumblr feminist.
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>>78250712
But it wasn't boring specifically because it was a emotional hormonal mess of vad decisions and poor judgement, not the usually magic flirt around for the whole series and then hook up at the end thing.

The JLU Green Lantern Hawkgirl thing was also a great example of a break up handled well
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>>78250811
The fuck you talk about, Toph hated her parents treatment if her and was hyper independent she wasnt even jelling that well with Kataras leadership, why the fuck would she suddenly 180
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>>78250930
Didn't watch JLU, but i guess it's just personal preference then. To me the romance stuff in season 1 was easily the worst part about it. It was cringey, boring and annoying because it felt like they were spending time on something so irrelevant. And to me it was even worse that it never amounted to anything, making it feel like an even worse waste of time (granted that i like that Makorra broke up with a sortof promise that romance was done for).
To me the best romances in LoK were the stuff like BolinxOpal because it just happened and wasn't the focus or maybe even realistic.
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>>78250811
Toph wanted to give her kids what she never had, the freedom to do what they wanted. It just turned out that it made Lin feel neglected and bitter and Suyin a delinquent.

Besides, it's not like Toph was an especially well adjusted kid herself. She was selfish and rude with an independent streak a mile wide. She probably just used her position as chief of police to beat the shit out of people without getting into trouble for it.
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>>78251047
What do you mean never amounted to anything. Makorras horrible epic and wonderful demise was a center point to Book 2 and Korras breakdown that required her t k get her mind right after trying to use a coup to start a world war
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>>78250712
But we don't want shitty realistic relationships. If I wanted to see that I'll just watch some teen drama series or listen to my female coworkers' love stories.
The main selling point of the avatar franchise are the bending and the characters from TLA. If half the time spent on romance was used on character development, the characters of LOK might have actually been likeable.
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>>78250971

English - learn it.

Many things could be said about Toph. But she was not a dumb piece of shit. When you go through issues with your parents as an adult you try your best to do the opposite and be a good parent. Toph would be the kind of mom who lets her kid fall from a tree once so he learns his lesson. She'd be the kind of mom that wouldn't meddle unless you asked for advice. When I was a little boy I was bullied by an older girl and I asked my mother what should I do. Her reply was, and I quote verbatim - "Kick her in the cunt." That's the kind of mom Toph would be.

But what we got in Korra was Toph whose life was a trainwreck, and she had no fucks to give about her kids.

So the bottom line is either Toph was a terrible person since childhood and got stuck in a really, really immature mindset or Korra was absolute trash from beginning to end and an insult to ATLA and all of its excellence. Your choice.

But I know what they were aiming for. It was liberal propaganda aimed at the exact same audience that praises this shit - SJW's and tumblerinas.
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>>78251109
I'm saying that nothing productive came from Makorra. It was awfull the whole way through. And we suffered from it through season 1 only for them to cancel it in season 2, making our suffering pointless.

>>78251176
That's what i'm saying. Fuck realistic romances in adventure stories. The only kind of romance allowed in the adventure stuff is the simple, unintrusive cute stuff. Get it over and done with and preferably fast.

If you want shitty romances watch teenage drama series or movies. Series where that is the focus as it will be better for everyone involved.
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>>78248881
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>>78251254
Of course it was awfull, that's what was great about it.They rushed into a relationship, it was unstable and blee apart, and they both got over it and did some growing up.
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>>78251176
Romance IS character development.

How in the hell are the dynamics of the main cast not relevant or about characters. People aren't sexless robots and relationships aren't just toy bios stamped on so things can go back to fight scenes.
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>>78251254
The writers really dropped the ball hard with Korra.
They thought they were doing good with listening to the shippers and they put in as many love triangles as possible. Little do they know that the common fan is a retard that doesn't know what he wants. The majority of the fans loved the romance in TLA because it was subtle and rare. If you overload a series with that shit it becomes stale and tiring.
Ofcourse there are still rabid shippers that love LOK, but they are a loud minority.
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>>78251343
No that was bad. It was an awfull waste of time. Why include it at all if it's just going to be shit that serves no purpose.
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>>78250586
No it's like watching a playlist of music video's and getting a rock biopic
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>>78251343
>Anon wanted a show about awful teen drama instead of humangod shooting stuff and being awesome
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>>78251209
The opposite of her overbearing parents was exactly what she was, she had a really long leash, they practically hammered it over your heads.

Toph was devil may care extremely independent and not one for getting caught up over a nigga.

Totally in character for her to be like "yeah, we dated, didn't work out"and not get lost in the sauce over things.
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>>78251375
For the record, I agree with you...but you're on /co/, son. You're never going to win this argument.

Know your audience.
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>>78251375
It's only character development if the character grows as a result of the relationship or we get to understand the character better.
How was Mako any different after all the bullshit with Korra and Asami?
What did we get to know about him as a result?
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>>78251209
What the hell is wrong with you?
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>>78251375
Not if it doesn't develop the characters. I LoK the romances had no consequense to the relationships of the main cast. One of the many complaints is that Asami stays around after the romance crap she was put through. If it had contributed to character development she would have been out of there or treated people differently based on it, but she didn't. The closest we got to any kind of development from the romance was mako being awkward for half a season then they returned to normal as if nothing ever happened.
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>>78251387
The purpose was showing Korra, a sheltered young adult with mininal social skills and an aggressive personality, rush into a relationship,run it on pure passion, have it fall apart because neither parties were emotionally mature enough to handle it, and eventually, with time and distance, get over it and stay freinds.

The whole story was a coming of age. Korra did several things wrong, but showing her evolution from bad decisions and the fallout of her personality and how she was raised affected her interpersonal dynamics, was not one of them.

If anything, Korra's primary flaws as a show were when it DIDN'T have the natural consequences of who the characters and the world they live in come to rest.

Korra is fundamentally the story of a unadjusted young woman struggling with maintaining a geopolitical powederkeg of a world while dealing with her ego, her crippling insecurities and negotiating her dysfunctional interpersonal relationships.

It was a brilliant concept, they just didn't have the writing skills to execute it well.
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>>78251441
After the time skip the dude became a well adjusted professional and responsible adult well done as a police officer who was able to impart wisdom and responsibility to the prince.
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>>78251530
But none of that used the romance or needed the romance in any way. If anything the romance hurt that idea by removing the focus from that to some weird unrelated non-issue about who to bang. Keep the plot but remove all traces of romance and you would end up with a better product.
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>>78251429

She was 13 in ATLA. So again you're just stating that she remained stuck in her childhood as an adult, failing at life completely.

But this is a meaningless discussion as a whole. Korra was a godawful mess that shouldn't be taken seriously in any aspect. I'm baffled by people who still want to discuss this, it should be forgotten and shunned. It's an insult to ATLA, a tumor. I don't consider any of it as a legitimate sequel.
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>>78251530
You're praising the romance in LOK for its realism. But how realistic is it for Korra, Asami and Mako to stay friends after their cheating and deceiving?

It would be somewhat believable if they started out as friends, but they didn't. Their first interactions were romantic. They had not past friendship to fall back on.
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>>78251577
And how did the relationship help him with that?
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>>78251445
>>78251441
Korra and Asamis response to the drama was to say fuck it and become friends.

https://youtu.be/k048Qj8U8Uo

7:18


Remember that really weird card conversation were they literally said "The Mako stuff was stupid, lets be freinds now"

the development was hamhanded but it was there
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>>78251399
Why even bother with characters or story, just run nothing but fight scenes
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>>78251666
That wasn't because of the romance, it was in spite of that. And we learned nothing new about the characters through that romance either. We allready knew they would have made great friends, because they were on that path before the romance stuff happened. So they didn't actually develop they just postponed the friendship (and made it unfeasable) through the romance.
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>>78251642
What the fuck does what you consider matter.

I can not consider Obama the president, the nigga is still the President. Reality is not up for debate,
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One thing I really like about IBO are the relatable character motivations.
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>>78251666
>Black girl not chimping out over her nigga fucking with another bitch

Realism ruined.
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I hate this new rheotric around "Flawed Characters." It's the new "It's up for intepretation", i.e. it's a cop-out to dismiss criticism

Like sure, Korra's relationships with people are fucked, but they're never examined in any actual depth. Her romance with Asami for example is one of the weirdest fucking things around and has elements of co-dependency and abuse, but not once is this mentioned.

Also Lin gets fucking humilated by her sister but after getting her ass beat she's totally cool with her cunt sister that was a gigantic cunt for no reason?

Nah uh, not how this works sweet-heart. There's no depth to any psychological issues in Korra beyond MUH DADDY DIDN'T LOVE ME
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>>78251651
Very, relationships, especially at that age, are fluid octopuses of things. Not just romantic ones either, parents especially. People aren't robots that shuffle everyone into ally and enemey columns, the human relationship is a dynamic, complex and organic system that's takes many forms.

In this case, they had two seasons to process that baggage, and as clip shows, there is still some awkwardness with Mako
but as was said, people get over shit.
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>>78251580
Korra being totally unable to deal with other people and her own wants is a core of the series, ESPECIALLY with her team. We they supposed to be beep boop team avatar and just punch shit like the super friends?

Korra's character dynamics and development and coming of age were the amrature of the series. the execution was faulty of course, but that just means the writers were bad at there jobs.

When a car breaks down, you don't throw it into the ocean because you say it's a submarine.

You just fix the car,
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It's realistic to have flawed characters flawing around and screwing up, but it's also realistic to have those screwups linger. Not having them linger is even less realistic, at least when we start with idealized people they can still function as unique individuals in realistic environment.

If you have your characters flawed in such way it should interfere with their success, either have them overcome those flaws or be unable to overcome those flaws and fail. Korra did neither and this broke suspension of disbelief and make it look like writers endorse her flaws.

In term of romance, fraternizing should've damaged the team, it did not. Which is bad plotting.
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/co/ apparently thinks bad character development means character development is bad.


Which is consistent with the Civil War threads.
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>>78251787
>S1: Hey Lin, you need to let go of your grudge from the past!
>S3: Hey Lin, you need to let go of your grudge from the past!
>S4: Hey Lin, you need to let go of your grudge from the past!

You know, if I had such a shitty family as Lin did, I'd be a lot more than fucking salty. She deserved some karmic retribution, but the show was hellbent on making it seem like she was the problem here.
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>>78251209
>When you go through issues with your parents as an adult you try your best to do the opposite and be a good parent.

That's not true a lot of the time. The abused children have become abusers themselves.
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>>78251898
I once came up with principle for passable plotting that I would call "parachute principle"

A compromise between skydiving and not skydiving is not jumping off a plane without parachute.
In other words, if you are not up to challenge because you can't have strong continuity, constrained by rating or just a mediocre writer, do not place this challenge before yourself.
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>>78251872
>We they supposed to be beep boop team avatar and just punch shit like the super friends?
Thats is what we were supposed to believe as that is how they were presented in the show.

And again, Korras character dynamic, flaws and development was not grounded in the romance plot. The romance added nothing to the characters beyond shipper bait which is why you could remove them and have a better show. The relationships ended up being pointless and unrealistic because of the way they were handled.

Apart from that, focus on what your show is about. Is it about action and hero stuff, go with a disney romance.
If you want it to be about character relations and love triangles, make a show about that. I both cases the show(s) will be better off for it because you play to their strengths.
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>>78251811
What are you even trying to say?
Relationships change? Yes, they do. But Mako and Asami were together for half a season and then he moved on to Korra. Mako and Korra only seemed to argue and they seemed to drift further apart when they got together. This isn't the best formula for a tight friendship.

They got over it. But how realistic is it to get over this stuff for people you have so many bad experiences with?
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>>78251787
Korras problem is it set up this rich moral and character complexity but then it all devolved into the same silver age nonsense at the end.

The same way the villians all had valid points but were turned into straw eevuhlz bad guys, Korra presents several emotionally complex, mature and frankly totally fucked relationships and then just skims them over.

It pays lip service to its development but is never able to follow through. Its a failed attempt at a lofty goal, but the goal was still good.

In the hands of better writers, it could be god tier.

Just look at how co notes the inherent implications and aspects of say... Suyin and Kuvira, or the Beifong family, or Aangs kids, or Korra's utter fantastical failure at everything.

Even the background writers back this up. Korra was inspired by hour damas like Breaking Bad, Sopranos, and Mad Men and yet couldn't stick the landing.

Book 3 was closet they got.
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>>78251955
For a show where superpowers are allegedly linked to philosophy, Avatar series did very little to actually link powers with characterization.
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>>78252003
Absolutely agree. I wish they had focused on that stuff instead, could have been GOAT.
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>>78251958
Very, for what I just said, human relations aren't just simple good/bad.

In this case, Korra and Asami both have no real reason to beef because they independently worked out there issues with Mako. Korra over season 2, and Asami over books 1 and 2.

The only real fiat was them becoming freinds, which , when you think about it, they were on the road to but the Mako stuff got.in the way.
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>>78252043
Yes and what you're left with is a friendship filled with distrust and awkward memories. This could all be avoided if they left out the romance stuff. Now it makes their friendship feel forced and shallow.

Sometimes I think the reason they hang out together is because nobody else will. They live in a big city. Why don't they have any other friends?
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Yeah, it was realistic. I still didn't like that shit.
One relationship that was complete bullshit was Korrasami, the big endgame flagship couple.

As petty as it may be, that shit soured the whole show for me the longer I thought about it, along with other stuff. I basically stopped watching around Season 2, and decided to play catch-up mid-way through Season 4. S3 was alright. S4 was S1 tier crummy.

It's tumblr's show now.
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>>78251955
Even the original Avatar wasn't just an action Bay smashem up, it was rooted in character development and arcs.

Actually, Korra is basically "What if Aang were Zuko"because Zuko was clearly the best written character on atla, they just didn't have the skills to back it up.


Also, how exactly would Korras character dynamics still work if her connections to the main cast were all neutered.

She is struggling with her insecurity about her duties, her ego and obsession with her identity as an avatat, her constant rage at the frustrations of fufiing her Destiny and the endless complications of a world wrapped in it's countless agendads.
Making her TEAM a magical island of superfriends would be nonsense.


To use a comic analogy, if ATLA were the Silver Age, Korra TRIED to be Watchmen, but instead was early Image. That doesn't mean Watchmen was a bad comic, it just meant they couldn't fulfil what it was about.

Korra was never meant to be a copy pasted action adventure romp, it tried something, different to expand beyond the original, it mostly failed; but not trying to be a cheap nostalgia driven copy of atla was not one of those failings.

When a shuttle blows up we don't close down Nasa.

When a condom breaks, you don't rawdog countless whores.

Failing an attempt does not mean you were wrong for trying.

That stagnat way of thinking is what strangles creativity.

It's why I respect the prequel and its flawed artistic expansion of what Star Wars is, over Disney shallowly mining the ot.
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>>78252195
The fact clone wars wound up so great is a testimate to the fact, that even if your execution is bad, actual novel artistic expansion and growth can be better handled with more skill,


Korra was a brilliant show Bryke was just not good enough to handle.
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>>78252195
No one is talking about neutering their connections. I'm saying skip the romance stuff. It doesn't add anything to the relationships anyway which is blatantly obvious since none of it has any consequence for the relationships. And they did exactly what you say would be a problem. Team Avatar is a magical island of superfriends.

And the last part of yours is basicly just saying, in principle it wasn't bad, which is true of almost anything in LoK. Sure if they had been competent the Romance stuff might have been tolerable, but they weren't. And if the were competent they still wouldn't need to include awfull teenage romance drama into a show that isn't about that. In fact if they were competent they probably would have chosen and not include romance because it would hurt the show.
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>>78252195
Korra was not innovative. It failed what was developed and refined for centuries. Failed at most basics. It was just bad for it.

If NASA engineers set shuttle pointing nose into ground, you fire them.
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>>78252195
>It's why I respect the prequel and its flawed artistic expansion of what Star Wars is, over Disney shallowly mining the ot.

No. Fuck you. The prequels were George Lucas pushing a special effects heavy eye sore set up to line his own pockets. At least episode 7 involves people actually passionate about the franchise. Yes, the mouse holds the purse strings, but you know what? At least the mouse knows how to handle it's properties better then George "I'll license this shit to anyone who asks" Lucas.
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>>78252221
>Korra was a brilliant show Bryke was just not good enough to handle.

This statement has no value at all. Ofcourse they were trying to make something good. The execution was bad and as a result the show as bad. Their intentions are worthless if they can't realize it.
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>>78252289
Having a coming of age among the interpersonal dynamics of young adults, as a sterile passionless waste is Fucking stupid.

You can't make a story about growing up and the human experience while cutting off such a fundamental part of being human,
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>>78252447
It doesn't have to revolve around bad or unstable romantic relationships. You can have it be about fitting in the world you're a part of. Or you can have it be about overcoming somehting about yourself with the help of your friends.

You can have passion and interpersonal dynamics without writing a Twillight sequal. Not that interpersonal dynamics seemed that important to LoK when pretty much every plot focused on external enemies, and rarely on the inter party conflicts that could arise. Book 2 probably dealt more with interpersonal conflicts and it is considered the worst of the seasons.
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>>78252447
Not all interactions between adolescents are romantic, anon.
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>>78252303
Bullshit. The prequels were an ed wood indulgent webcomic self fanfic. The heavy use of sfx and cgi was directly in line with the tone,setting and scope of that era. We went from old men and boys fighting insurgencies and deserts, to a hyper space camelot of thousands of worlds fighting a massive war with the Jedi order not at its peak. Seeing endless set pieces and massive battles was exactly what this opulent magnanimous age hinted at in the OT should have been. It was the lost epic age, the bloated and massive society before the apocalypse it wrought. We went from Vietnam, to WW2, The Flood to Babel, Smallvile to Krypton. Not wanking the cheap design sense of the OT like Abrams is doing was not a mistake.
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>>78252312
I am not arguing the romance was mishandled, I am arguing against the idea that romance is inherently a bad idea.
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>>78252561
Don't think anyone said it was. Just that it has a time and a place.
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You know what I want to see? Maybe how Marko feels? Yeah, yeah, he's happy for his friends blah blah blah PC stuff. But what about what a guy goes through emotionally after dating someone for so long to find out that she was bi? Or that the fact he dated BOTH women that ended up hooking up. A dudes gotta have SOME feelings about that, right?
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>>78248881
This. This so much. So many dumb ass kids grow up expecting shit to work out magically fine like in disney and anime and typical cartoons then cry like little bitches when everything crash and burns. Korra at least provided a realistic version of the crap that happens in dating
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>>78249117
You're assuming Bryke was smart enough to plan this from the beginning, but they didn't. They realized they fucked up and tried to fix it.
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are there people that seriously think romance on action shows is a good thing? OP are you fucking kiddding me,keep that shit on tumblr where it belongs
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korra relationships were nothing short of soap opera high school bullshit. everybody just wanted to get with somebody. you had cliques. you had immature drama. real relationships aren't like high school, op.

why do people like you continue to insist that korra had any depth? the show was totally shallow and demystified a lot of what made the last airbender a great show.

it was nothing more than fan-service and a cash-grab. the relationships were the worst part of the whole show. too many times in the show characters would talk about their relationship problems when there was a crisis happening. wtf. it was a literal tumblr fan-fest and the way they ended it just testifies to that even more. they made the ending not about the avatar world and korra but about some hinted at romance, trivializing all the events of the show and not giving any proper closure.

stop with all this korra was good nonsense. no it wasn't. not a single part of it was.
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I feel like calling Korea "Korea" is definitely a meme now.
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>>78252523
They dealt with the world but that stress affected them as well.

Using the rock Biopic analogy the bands dynamics and issues are reflected and parallel to the professional issues
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>>78252523
Frankly, it would feel cheap for Korra to not be horrible at relationships.

She is literally Avatar Zuko
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>>78253068
In writing nothing is plannrd for the start, at leadt not good writing, Atla was changed on the go as well.

Makorra exploding in Book 2 was one of the best parts of Book 2.
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>>78253331
The idea that something as etheral as a gentr shoukd dictate whether your characters have character is retarded.

Unless you are doing a story about monks or for young children, or asexual beings, it is insane to just cut out such an integral factor of humanity.

It's like saying eating doesn't belong in action cartoons, because that's not about fighty times.
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>>78253671
>demystified
Oh you are one of those.
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>>78251981
>Even the background writers back this up. Korra was inspired by hour damas like Breaking Bad, Sopranos, and Mad Men and yet couldn't stick the landing.

Bah. They didn't aim high. They said their story was like Breaking Bad but didn't put in any work to make it like Breaking Bad. They deserve no praise for making a glib facsimile of actual good writing
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>>78253691
uto correct
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>>78247626
pant
pant>>78255140
The raw elements were there, the fucked up charcaters doing increasingly fucked things.

Just didn't give the c i consequences.

It was a grey world with white areas.
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