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When a girl draws a character in a pose that shows off a female

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When a girl draws a character in a pose that shows off a female character's butt, it's okay.
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>>78214865
Obviously you don't understand female empowerment, shitlord.
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>>78214865
Yep. Support more bitches and you can look at more T&A.

Either that, or get a taste for gay porn.
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this one is cute and not scary michael jackson face
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>>78214958
But the face in this one is retarded looking.
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>>78214865
and? it's the same as only black people can say nigger
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>>78214865
Tarr posted a lewd Babs to twitter and there were people calling her as bad as Cho and Manara
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>>78214865
>When a girl draws a character in a pose that shows off a female character's butt, it's okay.
Yeah, and?
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>>78215254

In my day we used to call those people degenerates and we stoned them.
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SILY
>>
Yeah duh.
>>78215254
When?
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>>78214865

Well here Silk doesn't seem to be in a vacuum sealed latex outfit, so I can see why people aren't as irritated.
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>>78215523
A couple months back at least, but it wasn't that lewd Babs. It was the one with her jacket unzipped and her leaning back.
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>>78214865
Babs Tarr is a goddamn national treasure
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>>78215601
She's okay I guess.
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>>78215601
Not really.
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>>78215601
I like her. She's got cute art. Kind of gives me hope that I can make it in comics, since before Batgirl she was basically just a pinup illustrator.
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>>78215672
Well, even if you don't, being as cute as Babs is an accomplishment. But I hope that works out.
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>>78215735
>Babs
>cute
as in...Tarr? Cause...not really.
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>>78215570
I'm guessing it was this one, which got exactly one negative reply from a near empty troll account that was totally not you.
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>>78214865
>implying the Manara contreversy wasn't artificially manufactured to help sell the book
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>>78215984
did the book even sell
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>>78214865
>>78214958
This is more cure than sexy.
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>>78216002
It sold better when it was Land art and Manara cover than it does now.
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>>78216002
Premiere issue was around 93,000, issue ten was at 23,000, and the recent relaunh at 53,000.
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>>78215918
hot
>>
She isn't crawling on the floor like some sort of cock monger of a lowly whore. Its totally acceptable . You wanna know when something is wrong? When everyone complains about it. When it's not, its just you being triggered
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>>78217451
See the problem is that you operate under the false premise that erotic covers for superhero comics are bad
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>>78214865
Girls who know that sexy isn't sexist are my fetish
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>>78217451
Nah they were still triggered faggots when they were whining in mass that a spider-person was crawling in a tight outfit
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well yeah thats fucking obvious

why do you think women are more comfortable around women (and men are more comfortable around men)
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>>78215254
>as bad
You mean as based
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>>78217588
how does that relate back to the double-standard of comic covers/art?
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>>78214865
>dat broken neck
>dat right arm

If Tarr was male someone would write an Escher-Girls post about this

BTW Silk is a horrifically shitty character and I'm tired of seeing her shilled all over Mahvel
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>>78218828
Because it explains the double standard, people are more comforted by women doing something than men. I mean look at Robbi Rodriguez calling out Frank Cho and artists like him to get their shit in gear so they don't scare off "new enlightened readers". Meanwhile he completely ignored tons of female artists who love that kind of shit.
>>78218862
Is anything really broken even not taking into account Spider-flexibility it seems pretty in line.
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>>78215146
This.
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>>78214865
The butt isn't even the main focus though, I'm more drawn to her legs and face. Plus it's cuter than Manara's abomination.
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Who does the cover? That art is just like sweet looking and I would read an ongoing of it
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>>78217451
Hello, Reddit.
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>>78219178
Curious as to why though.
Ultimately aren't both their faces and butts in the same general areas? Hell Silk's might be more central in fact and the final cover completely blocks the ass though there's good chance that was just a final measure to censor the piece.
>>78219257
I doubt you could enjoy the ongoing since you can't read.
Though why am I typing this, you can't fucking read.
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>>78219292
Babs' style feels more dynamic (almost "bouncy"), lively, and there's more to look at. Manara's feels awkward and stiff, like he badly traced a real life photo. You're also more likely to see the ass, weird broken neck position, and hands before anything else in that picture.
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>>78214865

But see, she's smiling so she's having fun and that makes it A-Okay. This is what people actually think, I've heard more than once from women that cheesecake is icky unless it's done in style of those old school pin ups where the girls are always smiling and having "fun". Only then is sexualizing the female body alright and not problematic.
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>>78219338
Alright.
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>>78217451
>She isn't crawling on the floor like some sort of cock monger of a lowly whore.

Instead she was crawling on fours like, you know, a spider-character would.

>>78219338
IMO, Manara captured perfectly the weird, creepy vibe you should get from spider-woman
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>>78219338
Manara's photo has way less of a broken neck than the OP
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>>78219342
Obviously humanizing a person makes a world of difference, you doofus.
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>>78219375
OP's looks deliberately cartoony though, so it's not as jarring.
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>>78219366
>Weird creepy vibe
Is that canon? I always felt Jess was just a plain old hotty with low self worth. The creepiness wasn't really canon. I think Manara just drew a bad face and his typical skinny chick and it wasn't a very good piece by him.
>>78219375
How? Not really seeing it on Silk.
>>78219381
Yeah but making them happy and shit isn't the only way to humanize a person.
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>>78219398
eh, "cartoony" comic styles rarely are so extreme that basic anatomy goes out the window and Tarr's style is no exception.
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>>78219381

Why does humanizing only entail smiling, and not being a sexy, confident lady? Because male gaze is inherently sleazy and evil?
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>>78219404
Silk's face is nearly parallel to her body dude
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>>78214865
>When a girl draws a character in a pose that shows off a female character's butt, it's okay

Yes? It's for the same reason women generally have no problem when another straight woman comments on her body or when a female friend suddenly grabs her friends boobs. Or hell, the reason women share change rooms rather than being in unisex ones. A straight man doing that would be considered creepy.
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>>78215523
I saw someone with this as a tattoo. Figured it was fan art. That's nice.
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>>78217451
>You wanna know when something is wrong? When everyone complains about it.

Wow, sure are a lot of people complaining about the SJW's lately.

Wonder what that indicates....
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>>78219412
>and not being a sexy, confident lady?

If they have any expression at all besides an empty husk like >>78219292, it's a step up. Generally, I would think women in the middle of enjoying their powers like OP's pic would be smiling and having a good time rather than looking completely blank or sexy.
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>>78219404
>Is that canon?

Dude, Jess is meant to be super weird and creepy. Originally her pheromone powers were suppose to make people be uncomfortable around her. Plus her entire origin story is weird and creepy as fuck, initially she was meant to be spider that evolved into a human being, then that got changed and she became a girl who spent most of her childhood in an incubator due to falling ill and her scientist father trying to cure her which involved injecting her with spider blood and putting her in a device that slowed her aging process so she was in the machine for decades but only emerged as a 17 year old with little to no real understanding of social cues, etc because she spent most of her life cut away from society....
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>>78214865

retard face, but noice ass!
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>>78219474
>empty husk

But again, she's meant to look weird and otherworldy macabre because she's a spider-lady doing weird as fuck wall crawling. Manara captures that perfectly. This is Manara's interpretation of how he thinks a Spider-Woman would look, it looks weird because Manara doesn't draw capes, so his style naturally looks a bit alien in contradt to normal capeshit covers make the characters look. That's part of the point of the variant, getting a master like Manara draw weird Marvel shit.
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>>78219410
Still not as jarring. I had to do a double take when I first saw Manara's cover since it looked so realistic yet so "off", anatomy-wise.
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>>78219404
Cho really likes drawing Gwen, doesn't he?
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>>78219553
Really isn't very fucked up dude. You're effectively saying "I like Tarr more than Manara"
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>>78219537
>Manara captures that perfectly

Eh, not really. I don't really get any vibes from that picture. Granted, it's hard to convey emotions with a character whose face is half covered.
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>>78219831
>3D model has her head lower
>drawing has her head too high up with bizarre hairline and the hair underneath looks like it's coming from her chin
>the fucking shoulder

Didn't a chick in cosplay also try to prove that position is possible IRL while also inadvertently proving that the placement of spider-woman's face is fucked up?
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>>78214865
I have a magical power to translate social justice warrior thought. Ok here it goes.

This is OK because it doesn't show each individual ass cheek. The other one you could see two but this one has one.

It's more cartoony. The proportions and arstyle isn't hyper realistic. It reminds women of silly cartoon shit they see on tumblr.

And yeah a girl did it so it's not sexist. Seriously this is what SJWs are thinking.
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>>78215146
>>78219109
You douches.

You. DOUCHES.

Why are you letting people ruin our world? It's hypocritical. You KNOW it's hypocritical. Why aren't you putting their feet to the fire when they try this shit? They can't do it unless people en masse fucking let them. You fucking DOUCHES.
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>>78219946
I don't think anyone was complaing about the face though...
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>>78220053
how old are you
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>>78220053
See:
>>78219443

Dummy.
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>>78219955
Yeah, it's light, fluffy, cute and most importantly harmless

Exactly the thing you'd give a baby or an SJW.
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>>78220053
Are you normally this stupid, or are you trying extra hard right now?
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>>78220123
Regular girls tend to like cute things.
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>>78219831
in the right picture, her head is tilted up more than the 3d model. look at the angle of nose and the position of her lips on her face. her ass is also pointed at a different angle than the 3d model, flat on the top instead of slanted.
in the left picture, her right knee is pointed far more inward than in the 3d model. we should also see some of the lower leg behind the knee.
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>>78214865
That pose is LITERALLY impossible. Human spines don't work that way.
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>>78220200
but what about spider-humans
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The difference between that artist doing it and Cho doing it is that she likely isn't a fucking asshole like Cho is.
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>>78214865
Where are the rolls of fat? That's not a real woman. It's a stick figure.
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>>78220181
Okay but the model is only slightly off, probably still within the bounds of normal human anatomy.
The complaint of "hurr fucking impossible positioning" is still ridiculous. Half the artists in the industry are much, much worse.
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Reminder that Babs in bi and probably curvy women in tight clothes just as much as straight men do, so the "difference between empowerment and exploitation" argument doesn't work.
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Milo Manara is an Italian pornographic artist of incomparable vintage. All of this Amerishit SHW artists trashing him, are just the yapping of small, prudish and uncreative chihuahuas at the ankles. Fucking impudence of these bitches
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>>78220296
Nobody said it was impossible ITT, they said it looks jarring and off, which it does.
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>>78220346
>Reminder that Babs in bi and probably curvy women in tight clothes

Reminder that you need to brush up on your English or calm down before posting.
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>>78220387
Sure, but so does the completely snapped neck in the OP
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>>78220405
It's probably phone posting, I hate it when I do it. You can tell what he meant to say pretty easily.
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>>78220408
OP's doesn't look as jarring because it's cartoony and not super realistic like Manara's.
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>>78215918
Her duck faces are so ugly.
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>>78214865
It was okay with Manara and it's okay with Tarr too.

I honestly don't understand why people get mad at sexy drawings and cry about objectification. It's a fucking drawing, how the fuck can you objectify a drawing? Fucking lines on a paper nigga.
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>>78219779
She's the face of social justice.
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>>78219443
You mean, because women dont do this as a sexuality move.
Yes you are right.
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>>78220778
What if the woman drawing it is bisexual/lesbian?
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>>78220100
Anon that's clearly blue
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>Spider-woman
Oh, it's a woman crawling on the ground
>Silk
Why is that lady about to poo on her own head?!
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>>78220466
Manara's style is by no means "super realistic" though. It's pretty stylized. Compare it to Alex Ross, Glenn Fabry, Daniel Luvisi, Marco Cascioli or Tim Bradstreet. The features are softer, the skin is not detailed, it just undeniably doesn't look like how a real human looks, where as all of the other artists I posted draw photorealitically on the level of great fine artists (an fuck you if this what the discussion becomes about because I'm right about this and I said nothing about anything else besides their ability to draw real looking people)
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>>78219443
>women can't be sexually attracted to women
>or creepy
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>>78214865
Yes, because they obviously can't fucking draw.
This kind of shit should only be acceptable for indie trash and short lived pipe dream webcomics that nobody on this planet would subject themselves to.
Bishojo and bishonen by female mangaka look like buttholes for a reason and it isn't exactly style related.
Babs Tarr is a big fan of sailor moon and feels that her art is "Japanese-influenced".
There were some great things about Sailor Moon but Naoko Takeuchi's art was not of them.
But Tarr has a vagina and every publisher only has a small sliver of a female staff because few female artists give enough of a shit and the only ones who do or pretend to are the kinds of cunts who can't draw in the first place.
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>>78220125
I got 3 responses to that post, and none of them come close to making me feel wrong in the slightest.

You're acting like feminists. All you have is cattiness.
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>>78220986
Once again, /co/ thinks graphic art is the same as pin ups.
It is insane how much you people think the face is the most important part of comic book art.
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>>78214865
At least it's not tits and ass
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>>78219443
>lesbians don't exist
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>>78221030
Hey, I remember you! Shut up.
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>>78221078
Or maybe you can get an understanding of what makes a good comic book page and stop calling art irredeemable shit because the face isn't Land tier photorealistic.
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>>78221108
>implying I ever said or even think any of that
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>>78220053
Don't let the tumblr shit on you. You are in the right. They are hypocritical special snowflakes.
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>>78221593
So you want someone who wants the meme of "faces define graphic art's quality" to die to shut up, but you don't subscribe to it?
Suuuure.
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>>78221637
I think that in a visual medium where storytelling relies primarily on both body language and facial expression, yeah, well-drawn faces are pretty important.
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>>78214865
What's the point of this thread? A majority of peopel here don't disagree with you OP.

It's like going into a Muslim neighborhood and going "TELL ME WHY ISLAM ISN'T THE BEST!"

No one will combat what you say and there's ultimately no point and stating the obvious.
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>>78221710
OP wanted a hugbox.
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>>78221657
Except superhero comics (the only time this comes up because any non cape comic /co/ reads has art good enough to not cause this problem) are about melodrama and fights, so you're wrong.
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>>78214865
that is a truly retarded face. If I read Silk I'd be mad, but thankfully I don't give a shit about the girl who also got bit by Peter Parker's spider, lel. Oh, and twenty years from now it'll be revealed that same spider bit a THIRD kid that fateful day, topkek
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>>78214865
God her old costume was so shitty.
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>>78219831
Anyone know how these 3D models are done? Thanks!
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>>78215146
>WAHHHHH BLACK PEOPLE TOOK OUR HATEFUL WORD AND TURNED IT INTO SOMETHING FOR CAMARADERIE FOR EACH OTHER AND THEY WON'T LET USE IT ANYMORE

White people missing the point as usual.
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>>78217451
>You wanna know when something is wrong? When everyone complains about it.

Aw lawdy.
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>>78220466
>OP's doesn't look as jarring

To you maybe. It looked off the instant I opened the image.
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you should all feel bad.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cmvAWb26W1s
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>>78215146
>Niggas still thinking niggas can say nigger.
Nah nigga. Nah.
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>>78223875
why does it have to be about women?
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>>78223875
>fat women can't do gymnastic poses

you don't say?
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>>78220093
The people who were on-point were.
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>>78215146
But feminists boycotted Bayonetta even though the creator specifically called it a female power fantasy and that the sexuality is something for the player to flaunt rather than diddle themselves to. She outright compared Bayonetta to He-man and his embodiement of masculine lewdness.

Then again, she also basically told them to shut the fuck up and get real jobs so them being against her anyway isn't a shock.
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>>78220236
Cho's not an asshole. He's just that guy who tells the same joker every single day.
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>>78220387
>they said it looks jarring and off
No it doesn't. Especially the second one as to crawl you need to be on your hands and knees
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>>78223875
>all of the women are out of shape and half are overweight
oh boy
you sure proved me wrong with your sample size of, what, less than 10?
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>>78223381
Where in that post did that anon imply anything like that?
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>>78219178
>Giving the baby Metroid as a gift
Samus continues to be worst mom.
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>>78215146
There's nothing hateful about drawing butts.
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>>78223875
Apart from the poses where the spines is completely swivelled around these aren't hard. Plus for many they are in motion not standing

All this proves is fat bitches can't pose so should lose wait and join a yoga class
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>>78223875
>Buncha fat bitches tryin to gymnastics
Now this is comedy
>>
One could argue this is a snarky response to the controversy
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>>78224465
Might be reading into things, it's a pretty typical Spider-pose.
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>>78224493

I agree, but OP's spoiling for a fight.
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>>78223875
>superheroes should be directly compared to fat unathletic people
that's either trolling or serious congnative dissonance
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>>78214865
for the positioning of the head i'm sure her neck has been snapped and the face looks wrong
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>>78215523
>>78215918

daaaamn

I love official lewd
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>>78219443
>or when a female friend suddenly grabs her friends boobs
You've been watching too much anime.
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>>78219178
>The butt isn't even the main focus though, I'm more drawn to her legs and face.

This is a good point. I never got into the cover controversy but the very first thing I was drawn to with Manara's cover was the ass. She was presenting like a mandrill. This one, I feel more drawn to her face--and there's also a sense of motion and activity, as opposed to the passive ass-sticking Manara cover.

Not to say it's a big deal, they're covers. But I don't even think Manara's cover was sexy. It was just weird looking. If they were gonna go with cheesecake I wish they'd used Cho.
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>>78224562
It's really not that uncommon between best friends.
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>>78224591
The point wasn't really cheesecake, the point was more Manara. And Manara can do whatever he wants. Unfortunately he chose to phone it in.
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>>78219338
Manara's not the best artist from what I've seen of his work, but that was actually one of his best covers, and I really liked it.

You can not like it if you want, but people wanting an artist to loose a job over a fucking variant cover they could avoid and still buy the comic is just fucked up. It is censorship and over something remarkably petty.

>>78219366
Agree completely. I find it ironic when people complain that the image is uncanny valley yet pull this 'it's objectifying women' bullshit... it's objectifying her by making her look fucking creepy? Ok, armchair feminists.
>>
>>78214865
>artist can't do perspective so flatly pastes the right arm while still being smaller for foreshortening but now looks broken because she can't draw
top kek
>>
>>78224966
The perspective if fine, you goof. Her arm is clearly bent with the angle it's coming out at.
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>>78224905
>Manara isn't the best artist from what I've seen of his work
>actually one of his best covers
>>
>>78219946
Here, have an entire google image search full of real people in 'unrealistic' poses.

https://www.google.com/search?q=contortionist&safe=off&rlz=1C1KMZB_enUS581US593&espv=2&biw=1920&bih=935&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi906Oh8eDJAhXNjIMKHZmbAAMQ_AUIBygC#imgrc=_
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>>78220053
Douche here. Please stop using that word. That's our word and your misappropriated usage of it is triggering me.
>>
>>78224905

I'll preface this by saying I didn't mind the cover (although I did think it was shitty artwork).

1. They did publish it, with a slight edit. He didn't lose his job. Furthermore, they confirmed they're hiring him for future artwork.
2. Anyone who dislikes any company decision has every right to complain about it, be it directly to them via mail or over twitter or on a comic website. Doing so is not censorship.
3. People saying bad things about your work--and that includes "this is sexist" and "why did they hire him for this"--is not censorship. Otherwise everyone who hates Squirrel Girl's art is censoring Squirrel Girl.

Censorship is not defined as "a bunch of people saying something I disagree with and thus convincing a company to do something I disagree with." It's defined as "a bunch of people putting me in jail for something I drew/wrote/said."
>>
>>78219443
What the fuck are you even talking about?
You can tell if a person is gay or straight without knowing them?
A friend doing something is the same as a stranger doing something?
A person can violate the feelings of a fictional character?

The implications of your post are mind boggling.
And as a female, I like compliments, I don't mind looks, but people of ether sex saying something sleazy or staring over-long would be creepy. And anyone groping me without permission is creepy, male or female I will fucking deck you.
>>
>>78225273
The CCA never arrested anyone and they were still censors.
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>>78225263
Yo man my sister uses a douchebag. We good right?
>>
>>78223875

This is the superiority of 2D.
>>
>>78219488
This actually sounds like an interesting character. More creators should play that up, I'd read this shit.
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>>78225327

And eventually the CCA's power waned and died.

How do you feel about movie ratings?
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>>78225273
>Censorship is not defined as "a bunch of people saying something I disagree with and thus convincing a company to do something I disagree with." It's defined as "a bunch of people putting me in jail for something I drew/wrote/said."
No it's not. You can be censored without being put in jail.
>>
>>78225372
They can also lead to censorship.
>>
>>78224084
Also Bayonetta has fun. So that's kinda against the SJW rules.
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>>78225112
Blurry faced pin up poses with wonky or bland backgrounds suck, sorry. I just find his other stuff pretty cheesy, and not good enough to make be enjoy it for what it is.

I may have seen poor examples of his work exclusively, though, I'm not exactly going out in search of everything he does.
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>>78225404

Someone declining to publish your work because they worry the audience would not like it is not censorship.

Publish it somewhere else.

This isn't the 50s. This isn't even the 80s. Artists and writers have more places to publish than ever before. Bloggers are not the new CCA or the House Un-American Activities Committee.
>>
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>>78224000
>why does it have to be about women?
Because men aren't stupid? I'm not saying that men don't have body image issues, but they generally speaking tend to involve things that are hard to change; height, and penis size. /fit/ for example has a fair number of people that picked up weights because of these unrealistic male bodies, but they don't expect to be Captain America or Superman.
>>
>>78225489
Rod Serling coined a term called "pre-censorship", in which artists censored themselves to avoid shit they would have caught for their views.

>Bloggers are not the new CCA or the House Un-American Activities Committee.
That's exactly what they are.
>>
>open thread
>minimal amount of butts posted

/co/ please.
>>
>>78225489
>a person authorized to examine publications, theatrical presentations, films, letters, etc, in order to suppress in whole or part those considered obscene, politically unacceptable, etc
Looks like you're a "censorship is good when it's my side doing it" person.
>>
>>78225404
Yeah this is true, the MPAA is basically a censor because certain ratings can be the death of some films, forcing companies to make more edits inline with their guidelines in order to be able to succeed.
>>
>>78225489
This exact same argument applies to the CCA.
>>
>>78225526
I normally would spam butts and male character fanservice, but my old computer is dead. I haven't retrieved the files from it yet. I'm usually not the only one, though... what gives?
>>
>>78225471
Yeah you've probably seen bad examples of his work if you think this is one of the better things he's done. I don't really like Manara either, mostly because of his "Invasion of the Body Snatchers" looking orgasm faces, plus he's not as strong as Guido Crepax in terms of sensuality or composition. However the Spiderwoman cover was just lazy and it's not as good as Click, Butterscotch, or Indian Summer.
>>
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>>78225526
Here you go.
>>
>>78225530

>my side

I'm a journalism grad, so maybe I'm approaching this from a more technical perspective than I should. If you're not getting arrested and your shit isn't getting stolen, you're not being censored, at least not in the way people have historically been censored. However, I will admit that the "pre-censorship" >>78225525 refers to, as described by Sterling...

>Well, I'll give you an example. About a year ago, roughly eleven or twelve months ago, on the Lassie show—this is a story usually told by Sheldon Leonard who was then associated with the show—Lassie was having puppies. And I have two little girls, then aged five and three, who are greatly enamored with this beautiful Collie and they watched the show with great interest. And Lassie gave birth to puppies, and Mike, it was probably one of the most tasteful and delightful and warm things depicting what is this wondrous thing that is birth. And after this show, I think they were many congratulations all around because it was a lovely show, the sort of thing I'd love my kids to watch to show them what is the birth process and how marvelous it is. They got many, many cards and letters. Sample card, from the deep South this was: if I wanted my kids to watch sex shows, I wouldn't have them turn on that. I could take them to burlesque shows. And as a result of the influx of mail, many of the cards, incidentally as Sheldon tells it, were postmarked at identical moments all in the same handwriting, but each was counted as a singular piece of mail. And as a result, the directive went down that there would be no shows having anything to do with puppies, that is in the actual birth process. Well, obviously, it is this wild lunatic fringe of letter-writers that greatly affect what the sponsor has in mind.

...sounds pretty familiar.

I firmly believe artists have more venues through which to express themselves than ever before. But maybe I'm underestimating the power of critique?
>>
>>78225471
Tastes is taste and all that nonsense but to call the Spider-woman cove one of his better works is retarded, it's pretty much the second worst in the whole cover series behind that hideous Scarlet Witch.
>>78225525
Yeah but that makes things really muddy. It's big two comics, big soulless corporations making a product to sell. Editorial is basically a Pre-censorship staff because lord knows they're not there to quality check. Especially when you hear stories like with the artist who had to redraw a panel because someone said it could be misconstrued as anal.
>>78225757
Would threats and boycott count as censorship?
>>
>>78225489
You realize you could still publish comics without CCA approval right?
it is the CCA
>>
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>>78225526

I'm sorry. I don't have any butts on this computer.
>>
>>78225757
It's still censorship if the person complies with the censor.
>>
>>78225808
>Would threats and boycott count as censorship?
I'd say so.

Especially threats like the ones involving Muhammad.
>>
That covers makes me want to hot dog her bums and cum in-between
>>
>>78225757
>I firmly believe artists have more venues through which to express themselves than ever before. But maybe I'm underestimating the power of critique?
No you're not underestimating it, artists have more venues to express themselves it's just these fans care specifically about two venues with a history of caving in to pressure at the drop of a hat, (Which is the real reason Alan Moore permanently left DC) and try to ignore the other comic outlets.
>>
>>78224562
Its a thing that happens, and its fucking annoying.
>>
>>78225808
Ah, so just his marvel stuff is shit then, I guess. The cover you post I wouldn't even think was from the same artist.

The Spider Woman is the best I've seen of his Marvel work, at least.
>>
>>78220053
This is 4chan, you know. You're allowed to say cockmongler here
>>
>>78226041
>Ah, so just his marvel stuff is shit then, I guess.
Pretty much, it's just shit he's crapping out to make a quick buck.
>>
>>78225913
Wh-where can I find these "friends"?
>>
>>78226041
What other Marvel covers have you seen because I still think Spider-woman is pretty bad compared to the rest even if they're some of his lower work?
>>
>>78226157
Bars and clubs. Anywhere alcohol is prevalent, really.
>>
>>78214865

Its more that the art style distracts from it

Also, Silk is the best
>>
>>78225808

Threats, certainly. You're being stopped from expressing yourself because you fear for your safety. I'd even extend this to relentless harassment and "kill yourself" tweets--what happened to Zamii was censorship, no doubt about it.

Boycotts? Ehhhhhh...not so much.

It's like...the Brandon Eich/Prop 8 thing. The man made a political statement by donating money to an effort which passed a law. He was expressing his opinion, which he had every right to do. People, upon finding out about this, publicly expressed their displeasure to Mozilla. Mozilla, sensing the way the winds were blowing, pressured Eich to resign because of his public position and his publicly-held views.

Was anyone censoring anyone there? The people upset with Mozilla were customers and business partners. Some of them were no doubt affected in a very real way by the passage of Proposition 8. Was it improper for them to call for Eich's resignation? If so, why?

>>78225829

And that's part of my point: you are free to publish outside the normal channels if the normal channels block you, and it is easier than ever to get attention outside the normal channels.

>>78225848

But when the censor is someone or a group of someones saying they don't like your work because it's racist or sexist or pro-skub or anti-skub, are they being *censorious,* or are they simply expressing their opinions regarding your work?

It seems to me that artists are supposed to be allowed to express themselves--and get published and paid--and people are sort of allowed to criticize them, but never too harshly or too much, lest they affect the artists' ability to get future employment. I'm not sure if that sits right with me.
>>
>>78214908
WHY CANT MEN EMPOWER WOMEN, TOO?
>>
>>78226164
I've seen a few more than this image, but I think all of these are pretty bad. Washed out colors, sameface, stiff, blurry. I think the worst part is that the sameface all looks like a botched plastic surgery victim. Michael Jackson's nose on Pete Burns. lmao
>>
>>78226236
>But when the censor is someone or a group of someones saying they don't like your work because it's racist or sexist or pro-skub or anti-skub, are they being *censorious,* or are they simply expressing their opinions regarding your work?

In this day and age when you can claim anything is some sort of "ist", and rally people against it, its really hard to look at it as "just expressing opinions".
>>
>>78226325

I may disagree with my feminist friend when she claims Doctor Who's depiction of Amy and Rory's relationship is romanticized abuse and its depiction of Vastra and Jenny is a mashup of sexist/homophobic exploitative gay stereotypes, but hey, she's free to make the argument, and if Moffat were to listen and go "oh dear, you're right," I don't think she'd be CENSORING him.
>>
>>78226236
I think the real difference you illustrate here is whether or not the subject of outrage was actually doing something to harm the outraged. Someone drawing a fine ass isn't doing shit to anyone, but someone contributing to the passing of a law designed to oppress a group of people is. 'I like asses' is an opinion, 'I don't like gay marriage' is an opinion. 'I will donate to a group trying to stop gay marriage' is not an opinion, it is an action.

>>78226325
Also, there's a difference between expressing an opinion and calling for action to be taken. It doesn't bother me when people talk about what they do and don't like or why something makes them personally uncomfortable, but when people start projecting onto the medium that they were commenting on, and rallying others who had no interest in said medium to 'do something about it' I think it really crosses the line.
>>
>>78225913
You should be more clear about not wanting to be molested by your friends, or find new friends who don't molest you in defiance of your wishes. I wouldn't tolerate one of my friends grabbing my junk repeatedly.
>>
someone should tell American feminists that Heavy Metal still exists.
>>
>>78226665
It doesn't happen to me, but to my girlfriend. And yea she's repeatedly told the other girls in question that she doesn't enjoy it, but they don't listen. So she doesn't hang around them much these days. I've been tempted a few times to slap an ass or two, but I didn't want to deal with the fallout
>>
>>78226706
Oh no, the horror!
>>
>>78226476
But if she were rallying the troops on social media to force his hand and even bullying others in the fandom if they don't support her views, then what would it be? An action, not an opinion. I think this is where we need to make distinctions when discussing threats to free expression in media.

Also, it's only natural that some of us wouldn't like your friend because we disagree with her so much. She probably wouldn't like some of us, ether. As long as neither group is taking any action, or encouraging any action, against the other's well being, we are all only expressing opinions and preferences. It's all about recognizing where the line is.
>>
>>78226618

>'I like asses' is an opinion, 'I don't like gay marriage' is an opinion. 'I will donate to a group trying to stop gay marriage' is not an opinion, it is an action.

Solid point. Part of the problem here lies in the fact that to a lot of the critics /co/ has a problem with, nothing is apolitical, everything affects everything. So to them, expression of an opinion--especially if you're a prominent individual, or even just a "privileged" one--is on the same level as taking action.

Not saying I agree with that, but I think that's where a lot of the disconnect lies.

Man, I'm pretty sure this is the most pleasant, civil and informative conversation I've ever had in ten years on 4chan. Ya'll are shifting my opinions on shit.
>>
>>78226706
>some hipster journalist asks Morrison if he's going tone down the sex and violence now that he's EiC of the magazine
>he tells them that he's going to tone it up
>>
>>78225913
>>78226665
>>78226756

Honestly, in the first world no one is more sexist and degrading towards women than other women. The worst things that have been said to me as a female have been said by people angry at me for not being a feminist. I think that says a lot.
>>
>>78226849
Morrison can do whatever he wants, he is Earth-33's most powerful Memesmith.
>>
>>78226476
>Doctor Who's depiction of Amy and Rory's relationship is romanticized abuse
Of Rory?
>>
>>78214865
I used to hate cheesecake, now I'm buying cheesecake comics just to combat the SJW cancer.
>>
>>78226968
Keep fighting the good fight, comrade.
>>
>>78226945
It's true he married himself in drag.
>>
>>78226949

Yeah. And I can actually agree with that interpretation--if the roles were reversed, no one would call their relationship cute--but I'm a sucker for snarky Scottish women and hapless guys who get badass moments, so when she goes on about them I feel like she's being a killjoy.
>>
>>78226845
/co/ has become more and more like /pol/ if /pol/ was any good.
>>
>>78226968
Seems dumb you should support something because you like it, not because others hate it.
>>78227154
/pol/ is great, those guys are hilarious.
>>
>>78224562
And YOU need to get out more bud. Bar one, all of my girlfriends did shit just like that, constantly.
>>
>>78227154
>pol shitposters invade co
>tumblr shitposters invade co
>they root eachother out but leave a tendency torwards political discussion

Neat.
>>
>>78227201
/pol/ is hysterical, but it's worthless for actual political discussion. It's infested with JIDF, MIDF, Swarmfags, and Aussies all screaming at each other.
>>
>>78227099
Honestly I'm surprised your feminist friend thinks that. I usually see nothing but love about that aspect of their relationship, and the lesbo interspecies relationship, from feminists types.

>not all feminists etc etc

Yes, but my point is the popular consensus tends to be in favor of those things.
>>
>>78226845
> Part of the problem here lies in the fact that to a lot of the critics /co/ has a problem with, nothing is apolitical, everything affects everything. So to them, expression of an opinion--especially if you're a prominent individual, or even just a "privileged" one--is on the same level as taking action.

That is what I have observed as well. They believe that feelings are the ultimate justification for action, because they never grew out of that childhood stage of believing the world revolved around them. Anything they feel is the fault of someone or something else, and that thing should change or be hidden to comfort them. It's entirely unhealthy.

>Man, I'm pretty sure this is the most pleasant, civil and informative conversation I've ever had in ten years on 4chan. Ya'll are shifting my opinions on shit.

The great power of free and respectful exchange of ideas is that flawed ideas can be challenged, leaving only those that stand the test of reason to be held in the minds of those people who are mentally strong enough to withstand the sense of cognitive dissonance.
>>
>>78226949
>>78227099

Ah, I've not watched much Doctor Who, so I had no clue what the friend was on about. Good for her, not harboring that double standard. I'm not sure if I'd agree with her or not if I watch the show, but I do think it's nice to hear of a feminist who actually does want equal treatment.
>>
>>78227232
>pol
>co
Do I even need to say it
You already know
>>
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>>78227075
>Zatanna is Morrison in drag
>>
>>78226872
>I don't want to self-identify with the term "feminist".
>"But don't you agree with [lists off positive equality-based things]?"
>Yes, of course
>"Then you ARE a feminist, anon! We're going to force you into identifying with something you're uncomfortable with! Yay empowerment!"

I feel you, anon. I fucking hate people like that.
>>
>>78228717
God, I forgot to mention "why aren't you a feminist? Is it because you want male attention? That isn't very empowering of you!"
>>
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What about when a girl draws cuccshit?
>>
>>78224993
Anon just because you have a small t-rex arm that bends incorrectly doesn't mean it's normal
>>
>>78229526
And what pray tell is abnormal about having small t-rex arms?
>>
>>78228743
And then there's 'you aren't a real woman', 'you shouldn't vote then' and being accused of being a guy pretending to be a girl online, literally 'boobs or get the fuck out' logic just worded differently.

And then they wonder why Anti-Feminists exist. lol
>>
>>78223381
Nigga literally means "person" to black people until someone who isn't black or doesn't "act black" says it. Then it's somehow offensive.
>>
>>78230762
God forbid fellow women have their own thoughts and beliefs and feelings about the way they want to self-identify!
>>
>>78230859
It's derivative from historical slurs. Black Americans have reclaimed it for that purpose. If someone called me a slur that represents me, I'd kick their ass, but I have a good time using them to describe myself. Sort of a "nobody picks on my brother but me" mentality, in a way.
>>
>>78230922
>It's derivative from historical slurs

Okay, and? You're reinforcing the stigma tied to it when you prevent people from using it.
>>
>>78230922
It's really not worth arguing this kind of shit on here.
>>
>>78231070
Why do people want to say it so bad? I don't get it. It's not hard to not say it.
>>
>>78231167
It honestly just seems like the Mjolnir clause to me.
If it were just an average weapon Thor used no one would care, because it's specifically stated to be a hammer only some people can lift suddenly every character has to try and wield it whether or not they even need to.
>>
>>78231167
Why are you so intent on dictating what others can and can't say?
>>
>>78229616
It's abnormal on a human, Mr. Rex
>>
>>78219398
Holy shit my dick

I love this artist style Only on females, males looked stupid, specially Dick
>>
>>78224112
>No it doesn't.

Yes it does, dumbshit, the position of spider-woman's head/face has been continually proven to be fucked up. The 3D model even shows it. Her head is too high up.
>>
>>78224562
My childhood best friend grabs my boobs all the time. She has a lot of boob envy.
>>
>>78220894
>>78221047
>>78225322
>zeros in on this
>completely ignores the fact that women share change rooms and bathrooms with each other as opposed to sharing them with men for a reason
>also ignores anon explicitly saying "straight women"

Keep reaching.

Also >>78225322, you sound like a massive cunt, get the sand out your cooch and calm down.
>>
>>78228717
If most modern feminists were equality feminists I would still be proud to be called one.

But the SJWs who hijacked it talk a sweet game at first, but before long the mask comes off and they start bashing men and smearing anyone who disagrees as misogynist.
>>
>>78215366
This
>>
>>78233372
B-but anon! If you don't want to be called a feminist that means you've internalized your misogyny and actually hate all women including yourself and just want boys to touch your titties, regardless of your actual sexuality!
>>
>>78219488
Is that still canon? I remember reading that in an Evolutionary War compendium.
>>
>>78233372
But men are scum so whats wrong with that?
>>
>>78233489
But I like it when boys touch my titties! (with consent of course) When did that become a bad thing?
>>
>>78233372
>equality feminists

lol.
>>
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>>78214865
>shows off a female character's butt,
You can barely see it beyond an outline. Are you seriously comparing this total lack of detail to that other one?

You people bitch just to bitch.
>>
>>78233557
When you do anything with the intention to attract a man, it automatically makes you a Bad Feminist and degrades not only yourself but the entire female gender. Come now, didn't you learn this in Tumblr Feminism 101 along with your lesson on how to apply lipstick as red as the blood of misogynists?!
>>
When lesbians draw lewd girls, it's okay.
>>
>>78233591
No, my momma taught me that everyone was equal (and taught me how to apply lipstick) and taught me that anyone who says otherwise is a racist and/or sexist.

So it seems like the racists and sexists have hijacked the feminist movement and large parts of liberalism as a whole.
>>
>>78233583
>pic
...fuck I just got it.
>>
>>78233372
>having your opinion this easily influenced

Sounds like you have a weak constitution.
>>
>>78233549
Someone on 4chan should be perfectly aware of this.
>>
>>78228748

Is the angry lady in the background /pol/?
>>
>>78231394

Nobody is saying you CAN'T say "nigga" when you aren't black, anon. Nobody smart, anyway. What people do say is that the white people who desperately want to be able to throw "nigger" around are kinda sorta racist at best and super duper racist at worst.

Non blacks can say "nigga" and "nigger!" But you're totally going to get called out as a racist piece of shit when you do. As a white dude I do not understand how this is so unjust.
>>
>>78235035
That attitude is what gives the slur power in the first place.
>>
>>78220986
Damn, at what age were you molested?
>>
>>78235060

No, no, us using to denigrate niggers for quite a long time--while, you know, enslaving them, and then subjugating them socially and publicly murdering them when they got out of line, and then, you know, continuing to shit on them whenever we could until doing so became socially unacceptable--gave the word power.

Nigger is a bad word because of the historical implications of it. It's associated with slavery, brutalization, discrimination, and lynching. That's indisputable. If blacks want to call each other niggas, great. If some of them say hey I don't care if white people say nigga, also great. But in general, it's "their" word. That doesn't mean I want it stricken from Huck Finn or think white dudes can't write it into screenplays or think the pictured panel is evidence of horrendous racism, but it does mean we just don't get to casually use the word the way blacks do.

Again, I do not understand why this bothers anyone. No one is legally preventing you from saying the word! But you'll get called racist if you try to use it willy-nilly, because odds are, if you do so, you are kind of racist. It's not a word we get to say. Kind of like how outside of the chans, if you call gay people faggots in real life, you're probably kind of homophobic.

There's no injustice here. We're not even talking about double standards on the level of BET versus no specifically-designated white entertainment television. We're talking about a slur with serious history being used by the people it was used against but not by the people who historically employed it.
>>
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>>78235187

forgot pic.
>>
>>78235035
>Non blacks can say "nigga" and "nigger!" But you're totally going to get called out as a racist piece of shit when you do.

Hilarious.
>>
>>78235374

Why?

Honestly, why?

I love free speech, mind you. Let's put in that die for your right to say it quote everyone attributes to Voltaire that Voltaire never actually said. BUT, I'm not such a pussy that I'll pretend saying certain things doesn't merit getting certain things getting said back.

Against gay marriage? You're probably kind of homophobic.
Desperately want to throw nigger around just because the blacks do? You're most likely at least a little bit racist.
Convinced the Holocaust was a lie? You probably hate Jews more than a little bit.

Oh no, oh no, someone called me a racist because I keep saying nigger! How dare they call me something that non-niggers who want to call people niggers typically are! Aaaaahhhh!

Why are so many people such pussies about speech?
>>
>>78235446
>Why are so many people such pussies about speech

I dunno, why are you trying to limit speech? Seems like a pussy move.
>>
>>78235591

>limit

Jesus Christ. I've repeatedly stated this. I don't want to limit anything.

Say whatever the hell you want. But be prepared for the people you're saying it about to say shit back.
>>
>>78235667
>But be prepared for the people you're saying it about

Why do you assume I'm saying it about anyone or any one group, especially in a derogatory sense? A white person can't say "damn nigga that's a good idea"? That makes the person racist all of a sudden? Then maybe black people should've cut the term from their own vernacular because language doesn't exist in a bubble. You don't include a word like that in media meant for mass consumption then act shocked and indignant when people "not of your kind" adapt your way of speaking. That's not how shit works. You keep going on and on about its horrible past connotations, so you either normalize it for everyone, or no one gets to fucking use it.
>>
>>78235889
>That makes the person racist all of a sudden?

Yeah.

>language doesn't exist in a bubble.

No, which is why the historical implications of the term do not magically go away because you want them to.
>>
>>78235889
>black people should stop saying the term because if i don't get to say it nobody should get to say it

Sheesh, give this guy an award.
>>
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>>78225526
>>
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>>78225322
>she doesn't want to be so hot that girls admire your looks/body and random females tell you you're gorgeous and that you smell great

Get on my level, sis.
>>
>>78220100
The fuck is up with this incorrect filename?
>>
>>78237194
That sounds annoying.
>>
>>78237376
Not if you were ugly in high school and got attractive in your 20's.
>>
>>78237342
>not recognizing Green Lantern
Granted, he mostly does crowd control, but come on.
>>
>>78233583
Her butt is the first thing you see and has a lot of negative space around it for it to pop out in the composition

Yes it's the same shit, /co/mblr.
>>
>>78237485
>Her butt is the first thing you see

I see her face, feet, and legs first.
>>
>>78237194
None of that sounds creepy or sleazy.
>>
>>78237630
Judging by your original post, it sounds like everything is creepy and sleazy to you, miss oversensitive.
>>
>>78233655
I don't. What's the joke?
>>
>>78237630
That wasn't me! I'm just making the observation. That anon said they like compliments and looks, but nothing sleazy and creepy. Your post talks about sweet looks and nice compliments, which sound, well, nice.
>>
>>78237894
Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer...

..he'll go down in history.
>>
>>78237342
"If you explain the joke, then it's no longer funny!" - The Joker
>>
>>78238245
Fuck me I feel stupid.
>>
>>78238739
Don't feel bad, I actually recited the whole song in my head before I got it.
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