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ITT: Mary Sues

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Thread replies: 359
Thread images: 76

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ITT: Mary Sues
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Behold, the ultimate Mary sue.
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But she was shown to be flawed already. She treated human like playthings until Greg confronted her about it.
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>>78178452
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>>78178422
Not really.
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>>78178422
Mary Sues don't get slayed by dick
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>>78178474
Does /co/ think that anyone who dates for fun is inherently evil because that's the only thing I could ever see /pol/ and tumblr agreeing on
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>>78178599
It's not dating for fun that made her evil. It's not thinking of humans as people with their own complex feelings that makes her misguided.
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>>78178422
Not really, Rose certainly had flaws. The only one who thinks that she was perfect is Pearl, and that's because she's an obsessive turbo dyke with mega thirst.
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>>78178422
>implying she's not endgame villain mastermind
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>>78178713
Rose is a Mary Sue be cause every fucking time she appears, she has a different personality.

but I don't care, Pearl is the Best Character ever and Steven Universe is a Masterpiece a 8.4 of 10 , BEST FUCKING CARTON NETWORK'S SHOW
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>>78178422
You can't be a Mary Sue if you're dead before the story even starts. Being a Mary Sue, much like being a manlet, is an active process.
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>>78178986
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>>78178986
>8.4/10
>a masterpiece
?
>>
>>78178986
>Rose is a Mary Sue be cause every fucking time she appears, she has a different personality
Do you even know what Mary Sue means?
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>>78179082
Steven Universe is a 8.4 , can you named a better Show ?

all Cartoon Network's shows are 8-7-6-5-4 usually.

Avatar: The Last Airbender is a 9

Cowboy Bedop is the only 10 in actual existente.

Television series are a lower form of art
>>
Why does /co/ love this show so much?

It's pretty heavy on shitty melodrama.
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>>78179176
what you say, is better than adventure time !

the only bad of the series is the Sardonyx's Story Arc , Sardonyx plot is shit.

and Yes, Rose is a Mary Sue.
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>>78179001
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DeceasedParentsAreTheBest
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>>78179216
>is better than adventure time

no
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>>78179139
Space Dandy is better than Cowboy Bebop lol
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>>78179471
>actually linking tvtropes
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>>78179097
when I give to something a 8.1 is a Masterpiece.

It is simply to understand the numbers.
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>>78178452
That is completely true.
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>>78179176
I don't know, why don't you figure it out?
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>>78179139
Beebop is boring though and absolutely fails at serious noir shit, funny hijinks are the only watchable parts of the show

And yes, SU is good
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>>78179502
You mean these shit commedy about commedy ? ....

Cowboy Bedop is about how the past is a shadow that follows us, dying is an act of liberation, to get rid of all that burden, to rise to the sky.

Space Dandy not is deep, it's just fun and comedy with style.
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>>78179139
>>78179561

/co/mrades. Can't like two cartoons at a time. So sick of this place.
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>>78178986
>different personality each time she's shown

Have you ever met a women who is currently pregnant but not at the time you met her?
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>>78178422
Isn't that sort of the point of the character, being super glorified without given actually any deeper insight?
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>>78178422
Why is that cake using a pie as a shield?
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>>78179593
nah
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>>78178452
He's definitely my favorite Mary Sue, though.
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>>78179598
Rose is a mom full of love , expert in battle, the team leader and the only Crystal Gem with boobs.

explain that
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>>78179593
You might be actually 13 years old or maybe Russian or both.
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>>78178452
I don't think he's a Mary Sue. He has plenty of glaring flaws.
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>>78179689
i am Russian, how you know that ?
>>
Mary Sue means perfect character without flaws or author's self insert.Mary Sue does not mean character you dislike.

None of the characters mentioned in this thread are Mary Sues.
>>
>>78179705
>>78179705
Point is, flaws aside, Rick is always right. No exception. And not because he's supposed to be a genius or anything. I don't think Rick has ever made a decision or said anything the audience is supposed to disagree with. Him just being around is the solution to any conflict that can ever occur because Rick always knows best. He's too cool to ever fail. Even the episode where he meets his intellectual rival Rick just ends up just kicking his ass.

Rick is a fucking great Mary Sue, regardless. Like Goku or John Cena.
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>>78179718
OMG AN EXPERT IN MARY SUES !!!!

I can't believe it.

Please, You can give us a correct example of Mary Sue ?????????
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>>78179705
>So many in fact, that he always solves everything and never screws up
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>>78179750
>Act like a retard
>Someone points out that you're acting like a retard
>OH YOU'RE SOOOOOO SMART MR. SMARTY-PANTS
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>>78179675
I suppose Rose being the only Gem with boobs depends on whether you think Garnet and Jasper have a bust, or just really fucking big pecs.

>>78179743
Mhmm. Just because you're a Mary Sue doesn't mean you're unlikable, you're just written kinda badly.
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>>78178828
>Post your face when this is true and Yellow Diamond is a tragic anti-hero just trying to protect the rest of the world from that pink demon.
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>>78179675

>mom full of love
There are loving parents in countless forms of media, I don't really see how that makes her a mary sue.

>expert in battle
We're told she was a good tactician, we've never actually seen if she's any good at fighting (outside of a fusion), and considering 99% of her forces were decimated while homeworld not only survived but has now recuperated enough to launch a follow-up attack, I wouldn't really consider that evidence towards her being a mary sue.

>the only Crystal Gem with boobs
bruh do you even watch this show.
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>>78179750
Batman is sometimes written as a Mary Sue depending on the writer.
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>>78178986
You now, all this post makes me think of is wanting to see some kind of Rashomon episode about Rose involving Yellow Diamond, a few other Homeworld Gems, plus the Crystal Gems, and lastly, Lion gives his own story about Rose
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>>78179712

Your english is bad and you can't detect trolls.
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>>78179176

Western cartoons with action and any sort of serious overarching plot are becoming increasingly rare, it makes sense that people who were born and raised on said cartoons would latch onto one that makes an attempt to emulate them.
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>>78178422
It's been implied that everyone romanticizes the fuck out of her in a "don't speak ill of the dead" way. But judging by her interactions with Greg, she was at the very least incredibly patronizing.
>>
>shows up in town and is instantly loved by everyone
>quirky behavior is always accepted, never questioned
>literal magic powers
>is always right, even when up against the character who is always right
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>>78179903
>bruh do you even watch this show.

what other gem has boobs ?
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>>78180054

HDU hunty Gaga slays
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>>78179743
I like Rick and Morty but I'm not a huge fan for this very reason.

Sometimes I think people watch shows like this so they can see what the 'badass asshole comedian' way of viewing the world is and align themselves with it. Does that make sense? It's like Rick is supposed to be a cool guy perspective to self-insert into
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>>78179892
Sorry
>just trying to protect the rest of the universe
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>>78179555
>dominic deegan
I get it, but Jesus Christ.
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>>78179743
In most of the cases, Rick is the reason for the giant issues. He's the cause of the dog uprising, the entirety of the Chronenberg thing,
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>>78180086

Amethyst, Peridot, Lapis Lazuli, Opal, Sugilite, Sardonyx, and Rainbow Quartz.
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>>78179743
I'm not convinced Rick is a Mary Sue. He's the smartest being we've seen on the show, although whether he's the smartest in the galaxy or even the universe remains to be seen. That seems to cause him more problems than it solves. Superficially, yes he saves the day every time. I mean, he's the main character in a comedy show. Still, as smart as he is, he fucks up all the time, and sometimes he doesn't know enough to fix it, but just enough to avoid the consequences indefinitely. All this has made him a fucked up person, and I definitely can't see him as a Mary Sue just because he "wins", if you can really call it that.
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>>78180218
Rick has way too much baggage to be considered a Mary Sue.
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>>78179750
Deathstroke can be a mary sue if he's written badly.
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>thread about mary sues becomes a faggot universe discussion thread

>>>/trash/
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>>78180212
And as I mentioned, Garnet and Jasper, unless you think their chests are all muscle.
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>>78180328
>faggot universe
Seems to be equal parts SU and R&M, so definitely faggot universe.
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>>78180288
Yeah, that scene where he whooped the Justice League was bogus. I mean, of course he's supposed to be like an evil cross between Batman and Captain America, but holy shit, even prep time doesn't entirely excuse that.

That said, he's still probably my favorite DC character ever. Tied with Terry McGinnis and Toon!Jinx.
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>>78180347
>faggot universe

Come on anon you can think of a better insult then THAT. Jesus are you like 14?
>>
>>
>>78180405
Apparently R&M fangirls don't know how to read posts older than 3 minutes, or is scrolling up the problem you're having?
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>>78178422
Considering Mary Sues are products of fan work, I don't really see any in this thread yet. All of these are canon characters.

Even if you take the more casual take on it, I still don't really see it. You guys need to read more really fucking shitty fanfiction to get some real comparison what a Mary Sue really is.
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>Thread about Mary sues
>Nobody post the ultimate Mary sue
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>>78180500
What's the story behind this guy?Why do you think he's a Mary Sue.
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>>78178422
Secondary characters, by definition, can't be Mary Sues as MS need the story to revolve around them.
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>>78180557
A good indication that your character is a Mary or Gary sue is when they are immune to death,and later become so OP that the creators must think of some bullshit way to kill it.
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>>78180334
>unless you think their chests are all muscle
Or whatever gems are made of, yes. Rainbow and Rose undeniably have tits, the rest are either flat, barrelchested, or have maybe a single tit that sits on their midsection like a ball resting on a cup.
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Rose might have some breasts.But does she have the booty?
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>>78180881
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JdOstVSouao
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>>78180881
Pearl >>>> Rose
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>>78179743
Rick was the one that brought the mind parasites in that side character episode.
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>>78180212
>>78180334

Gems don't have organs, there's no reason for a gem to have breasts. The only reason Rose did is because she was a disgusting human fetishist. It's the gem equivalent of a fursuit.
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>>78179593
Way to make one of my favorite shows sound gay as fuck.
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>>78181998
>It's the gem equivalent of a fursuit.
Homeworld didn't abandon Earth because the Crystal Gem rebellion fought them off.
They were just weirded out by all the human-fucking.
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>>78179892
I'd love to see Yellow Diamond go full-on Byronic, yo.

>>78182376
>Yellow Diamond: "Eww, Pink Diamond. You don't know where that's been, it's so... squishy."
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>>78178986
>every fucking time she appears, she has a different personality
Because she's depicted from different viewpoints, namely Greg's stories, Pearl's memories, and her own video of herself. All of these are extremely biased and completely different from actually meeting her.
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>>78178452

very high intelligence =/= mary sue
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>>78178484
What happened that made Rick an morty synonymous with reddit? you faggots refuse to like the same things because "they're uncool"
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>>78179176
I agree. She show is fucking Feelings'r'us and they don't even portray it well. and the far more interesting plot of their evil homeworld goes on the backburner.

I personally can't stand the show once the singing starts.
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i think people often confuse characters who could easily be written as mary sue due to high charisma and intelligence with actual mary sues, who only exist to be "awesome." you cant be a mary sue if your an ass (rick), and you cant be a mary sue if your autistic about human behavoir (rose)
>>
>>78179555
>having Naruto over Goku as champion

This entire thing might be the single cringiest, cancerous thing I've seen in the past week.
>>
>>78179743

>I don't think Rick has ever made a decision or said anything the audience is supposed to disagree with

wow you must have a really pessimistic view of humanity
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>>78178828
>mfw rose created the cluster
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>>78184427
Lemme help you there.
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>>78184427
I'm pretty sure it's a joke senpai
>>
>Rose is a Mary Sue
I wouldn't count on it. The only sources we have on her were from two people that were romantically involved with her, and therefore most likely biased. I wouldn't be surprised if it turns out she's not as perfect as Pearl/Greg paints him to be.
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>>78184272
/tv/ meme
They basically call all their shows Reddit shows
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>literally no flaws
>conventional looking and pretty character design in a series where there are none
>inexplicably the most powerful character in the entire series
>best at everything
>came out of nowhere
>the most popular male character is in love with her
>main character acting irrationally because of her

Legit Mary Sue right here.
>>
>>78179216
>what you say, is better than adventure time !
That's debatable.

It sure is a hell of a lot better than modern AT (season 5 and onwards), but the first four seasons still tower over it.
>>
>>78179555
post template
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>>78178422

>prime example of a combat medic common among her people's military forces
>starts a rebellion that ultimately fails and gets all but three of her friends killed or mutated
>does nothing but dick around for the next 5,000 years
>doesn't prepare for the inevitable return of her enemy even though any retard could see that they'd come back eventually
>gives her life for her selfish desire to have a child, leaving those few remaining friends alone to face the coming storm and emotionally scarring them in the process
>doesn't even leave instructions to help her kid figure out any of the shit she left behind for him to deal with

Explain to me how Rose Quartz is a Mary Sue, please? Because from where I'm sitting she kind of comes off as a stupid twat.
>>
>>78180430

doesn't he get his ass kicked by squirrel girl?
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>>78180670
So Superman, gotcha
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>>78185304
That's like asking if you would get your ass kicked by Brock Lesnar.

Of course you would, everyone loses to Squirrel girl.
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>>78183748

>thinking yellow diamond wouldn't be lured in by steven /ss/
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>>78185285
It's a bait thread anon.
>>
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>>78185356
At best, Yellow Diamond would be confused and concerned as to why Rose is now a three-foot organic... thing. If anyone would lure her in, it would be Greg utilizing his murdercock again.
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>>78185356
>Yellow Diamond
>Caring about some fleshy child of her old enemy
>Not just trying to kill him in order to harvest the Rose gem (his lifeblood you could say) and use it to become powerful enough to overthrow the balance and take out Blue Diamond.
>>
>>
>>78181998
>>
>>78185581
Greg isn't everyone's type.
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>>78185021
It bothers me how she tosses all surrounding characters into the throes of out-of-characterness. But maybe because I'm an idiot and was kind of hoping they'd take a more interesting route with her character... I really liked the fan theory that she was a Wander/Hater hybrid.
>>
>>78178422
i feel like she is purposely being made out to be one because everyone who has described her had a close personal relationship with her
it would be nice to see someone talking about her flaws
jasper talking about roses cruelties episode when
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>>78185969
>>78186001
>>78186026
TL;DR
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>>78179555

Most of those characters aren't even Mary Sues, though.
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>>78185969
>>78186001
>>78186026
>>78186056
>>78186082
>>
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>>78185969
>>78186001
>>78186026
>>78186056
>>78186082
>>
>>78185969
>>78186001
>>78186026
>>78186056
>>78186082
Stop.
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>>78185969
>>78186001
>>78186026
>>78186056
>>78186082
>>
>>78178422
Rose is a Mary Sue or a Gary Stu ?

Gems are genderless
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>>78179502
Nah, it's just decent. Nothing too special.
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>>78186570
A Xiry Zeiu, respect other people/rock creatures pronouns goddamnit
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>>78186678
>xiry zieu
>shiry zu
>silly zu
>silly Jew

I knew it!
>>
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>>78178422
is that a person?

never heard of her.
>>
>>78186570
>Gems are genderless.

they are all girls. if trans-folk are to be believed and genitals don't determine gender, then all the gems are obviously girls.
>>
>>78186570
Crystal Sue
Pebble Sue
Xeno stew
Geo Lou
>>
>>78178422
The only way i will except Rose Quartz, is if she ends up being the bad guy. Like she didn't save earth to save humans, but in order to save the cluster. She, being in contact with homeworld all along. Rose being a homeworld FUCKING gem.
>>
>>78186755
Brain chemistry does determine it, though, and gems don't have human brain chemistry.

They're unitary (as they don't have sex), and all use the same pronouns, which happen to be the same as our female pronouns.

Actually, it is kinda weird that all the Homeworld Gems speak English. Or do we speak Gem?
>>
>>78187044
Its a cartoon show

all the gems are girls.

and until Rebecca Sugar goes out of her way to make a masculine one that uses he/him, I will continue to believe they are all girls.
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>>78181907
>fishnets
yes please
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>>78179765
He got everyone on Morty's original earth turned into monsters.
>>
>>78178586
says you
>>
>>78181998
Your headcanon
>>
>>78185389
how do you possibly rank him as a mary sue over Hank?
>>
>>78185021
>most powerful character
Hater at his angriest fucking stomped her, but something always distracted him from being angry right after.
>>
>>78185285
No one talks shit about her for any of that in the show, that's how.
>>
>>78187107
It wouldn't make any sense for a gem to use male pronouns, unless you're one of those faggots who define gender by gender roles ("If you like to cook and look pretty, you're actually a woman").
>>
>>78187554
Nah, she's at the top of the villain board for a reason.
>>
>>78187538
And what's yours, then?

It's not like we will ever, ever see to know for sure.
Personally I prefer them with tits, but that's just my headcanon.
>>
>>78187591
It doesn't make sense for them to use female pronouns based SOLELY ON THEIR LOOK.

If anyone's a faggot here, it's you.
>>
>>78187582
I don't talk shit about other people's dead moms to their face, either. Do you?
>>
>>78186570
Rose is not a Mary Sue or a Gary Stu.
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>>78187621
It's not based on their look, though. They just all use the same set of pronouns, period.
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>>78178828
>mfw sleeper agents
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>>78187786
Except if you kill the kayfabe and look at the REALITY of this CARTOON SHOW it's because of their look
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>>78178986
>>
>>78187677
The point is that everyone is constantly sucking her pink gem dick as if they have to.
>>
>>78179555
nice meme
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>>78179176
/co/ generally loves most anything with an overarching plot
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>>78185086
>>
>>78187884
>her closest friends dont talk shit about their dead leader

Shocking.
>>
>>78185709
Yep.
>>
Mary Sues (and Gary Stues) are abominable, cringeworthy, self-insert, god-like donut steals.

Theyre placed as the protagonists (or very important character) in fan fiction, and usually end up outclassing the hero of the story, or out classing the love interest to get with the hero.

Think Korra, the strong independent grrrl power, beating out asami, the hot sexy smart rich girl, for Mako's affections. That's the gist of a Mary Sue character: a fluffy, shallow, poorly written, faceless cliche beating out conventional characters who would otherwise mop the floor with them if it weren't for plot armor.
>>
>>
>>78188574

HEY! FUCK YOU! THAT'S MY WAIFU YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT!
>>
>>78187541
>gives him Tom Petty's voice
>character does incredibly stupid things that mostly works out for him in the end
>finishes the series with a family and a happy ending

Mike Judge succeeded with his Personal Mary Sue, it's an ending that Gene Roddenberry wanted Wesley Crusher to have if Gene didn't die and the staff tried un-Mary Sue-ing Wesley with not much success.
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>>78188010
But literally no one questions any of the things she did besides young Greg, they all just act like she did everything perfectly and was perfect.

Being dead doesn't excuse you from criticism.
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>>78188574
I'm glad /co/ likes the show, I can't be the only one who likes these Freshmen
>>
>>78178422
Nobody in SU is a Mary Sue besides maybe Steven and Garnet, but that doesn't mean they aren't still shitty characters.
>>
>>78190381
>not believing in Steven

Agree on Garnet, tho. Just an angry lesbian with too much power.
>>
>>78179765
>never screws up

>tiny rick
>staying for the purge
>pirates of the pancreas
>going to the wedding
>>
>>78188769

But we don't actually know if anyone questions the things she did because nobody fucking talks about it.

After what Peridot has said, I'm sure Amethyst has some doubts. Garnet never seemed the kind to just blindly follow, but she's not going to walk around talking smack on Rose, either. The only one that we KNOW has unrealistic views of Rose is Pearl, and that's because she's a fucking neurotically obsessed slave droid.

Can we count Homeworld in on this? Because I'm willing to bet the entire Gempire has a pretty dim fucking view of Rose Quartz.
>>
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>>78185709
>Those redesigns
she was perfect.
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>>78178828

>MFW when Rose could have given birth to Steven as a full human child, but chose not to.
>>
>>78192659
Jasper at least respected her as a warrior, but so far as we know, that's about it.
>>
>>78179743
Rick is deeply flawed and wrong plenty of times.
The one that stands out the most in my mind is the episode with multiple timelines converging and they need to rectify it. By the end right after he saves Morty's life, he starts praying on his knees and begging god to save him, showing he's a clear atheist in a foxhole.

It's easy to see him as a writers mouth-piece, but if you pay attention the context of what's being said it's obvious there's a lot the audience is NOT supposed to agree with, and just there to demonstrate how jaded and jealous Rick is.
>>
>>78178422
Your favorite character.
>>
>>78179675
>Rose is a mom full of love , expert in battle, the team leader and the only Crystal Gem with boobs.
As a quartz, she's built to be a natural leader, but unlike Jasper, or likely Amethyst, who were built for agressive tactics, Rose was grown to act as a protector and mother figure to the gems under her. Of all the gems we've seen she is the one it makes the most sense to be the only one who would bear a child, because she has the thing most approaching human maternal instinct, even though deep down, she's an alien with an alien mind.
>>
>>78187786
>They just all use the same set of pronouns, period.
>Pretending there's no explanation for this
Anon, they're gills.
If we went by the Pilot with their androgynous look where personality wise, psychologically and presentation they would be he/she/xe and just gems.

But if it looks like a dino, walks like a dino and CALLS itself a dino, it's a dino. Until we see one of them call another 'he' or not look and present as distinctly female they're to our perspective, for all intents and purposes grills.

Notice how Steve is a Gem but none of them give him the distinction of calling him "She" or "Her"? Doesn't that poke a huge hole in the whole "same set of pronouns" theory?
>>
>>78185709
Isn't she an unemployed slob though? Did they change that in the actual series?
>>
>>78188574
Star is shown to be naive, clumsy and has a healthy set of flaws. In the Blood Moon Ball episode she comes off as moody and temperamental, and even loses most of her godly Wand powers in the finale.

Hell in the Saint Olga's episode she broke down crying and was completely useless, so she's not much of a Mary Sue. No one really sucks up to her or likes her unconditionally either.
>>
>>78193700
Steven's part human, and the human part is sexed. Takes precedence over the sexless "gender" (whatever you'd call it) that gems are.

Obviously they're designed to be female for all intents and purposes. Just expressing a technicality.
>>
>>78187582
Homeworld thinks of her and her forces as essentially Satan. The only people who idealize her are Steven, Greg, and the Crystal Gems.
>>
>>78180430
what are his super powers?
>>
>>78193700
>for all intents and purposes grills
For all except the most important one: Sexual reproduction. Rose is the only one who did that, and she was only able to do it by kind of making up something where she ceased to exist to become part of her son. All the others are grown like literal gems.
>>
>>78179555
>that council

Pretty sure Spider would roast and eat Mallard and Buckley within the first ten minutes of discussion.
>>
>>78184664
>and then naruto points a laser pointer in Goku's general direction
>>
>>78185021
she was pretty handily defeated in her first episode
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>>78193889
>and it does nothing
>>
>>78193747
she's an unemployed slob who despite all of her many, many, flaws is still loved for it and never has to face the harsh reality of being responsible for your own actions

its a female power fantasy
>>
>>78193850
Genius level intellect, sorcery, plot armor which makes it so that whenever he's defeated, it's a Doombot, whenever he does something a later writer doesn't like, it's a Doombot, hand to hand combat skills good enough to kill a lion with his bare hands and naked, and a super-ability to somehow make his country perfect.
>>
>>78190381
Pearl.
Pearl is such a preachy Mary Sue it's goddamn annoying.
I was honestly hoping Garnet would try to kill her, or atleast bitch out when she tricked her into performing the Gem-equivalent of unconsensual daterape, but even than she got a free mary sue-forgiveness ticket.

What's funny is if a male character did that tumblr would burn down SU's studio and Sugar would catch absolute hell for it.
>>
>>78194016
>SU crew
>caring what tumblr thinks
>>
>>78194016
Mary Sue =/= "Character I find annoying because of their flaws"
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>>78188528
>Mary Sue thread
>One and only mention of Korra
>>
She gets whatever she wants, anyone who doesn't like her or disagree with her is vilified or ridiculed.
>>
>>78194034
It's actually quite interesting seeing them deal with tumblr's bs. They make a show which appeals to the tumblr crowd in a lot of ways, but if tumblr starts bitching about something in the show, the creators essentially say "We don't care. We're going to keep making the show the way we want to."
>>
>>78178452
Rick really embodies wish fulfillment; you are so needed that all of your flaws will be forgiven.
>>
>>78193789
Alright, they're sexless "technically", and not female.
I just wish the writers weren't so disingenuous about it. It's even worse when they include all this ridiculous lesbian subtext but want to have it both ways and claim "They're LESBIANS SQUEEE oh but it's not sexual because they're genderless/sexless how dare you say otherwise."
>>
>>78194056
>that part in s1 when she's about to kill herself so some other avatar who's less of a fuck up can fix things
>>
>>78194121
>oh but it's not sexual because they're genderless/sexless how dare you say otherwise.
when was this EVER stated?

its quite clear what they were going for in the ruby/sapphire episodes where they showed that gems might not have anything really analogous to sex the permanent fusion is on an even higher level of intimacy.
>>
>>78194037
She's not a Mary Sue because of her flaws, but that the show, characters (And audience expectation is to) forgive her magically for those supposed "flaws."

>Lol I tricked you into Gem-sex and traumatized you enough to split yourselves up woopsie
>It's okay because you idolize me I forgive you and can do no wrong
That's as Mary Suey as it gets.
She didn't fix her flaws or do anything about it, or even face any real punishment/consequences. They just let her off like the Sue she is. For as preachy as Pearl is, I'd never have thought she'd ever have gotten a bigger Karma cheat than that.
>>
>>78194087
she can't get a boyfriend, shit backfires every time and she gets framed as indulgent whereas Dipper is set up as a hero (a self serving hero.)
>>
>>78194034
Tumblr thinks people who draw skinny fanart, or any fanart that doesn't match their headcanons should kill themselves.

Why would anyone at this point care what they think?
>>
>>78194087
Well yeah isnt she based on Hirsch's sister that he frequently has sex with?
>>
>>78192495
>Pirates of the Pancreas

Man fuck you, you just don't get it!
>>
>>78194200
The writers on their twitter always dodge the question by saying the Gems are sexless rocks whenever the subtext is brought up as an accusation or a fault.

When it comes to representation and shipping purposes however? They're lezzie females all the way seemingly.
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>>78186063
>>78186165
>>78186192
>>78186244
>>78186371
What the hell happened?
>>
>>78194224
She didn't start like this, but by season 2 a boy who decided to turn her down was instantly framed as a weirdo just so nothing of value would be lost.
>>
>>78194209
She got the silent treatment for a bit. In a children's show that's as much retribution as you're going to get.
>>
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>>78194209
>She's not a Mary Sue because of her flaws, but that the show, characters (And audience expectation is to) forgive her magically for those supposed "flaws."

>forgive her magically

>all those episodes for anyone to come to terms with Pearl raping Garnet that would have taken a month if run on a normal weekly schedule
>>
>>78194355
And considering how much of an attention whore that Pearl is, that probably hurt quite a lot.
>>
>>78194121
Who is "they"?

The show doesn't bring up anything to do with gender or same-sex relationships. The fans do that on their own.

The writers say there are no female or male gems, and then pair up two gems without bringing up their genders because it would be weird NOT to pair any of them up.

Sugar made the gems based on herself and Steven based on her brother. That's why anyone is the gender they are.

If Connie was a boy I'd be pissed, though. I'm fairly prejudiced myself, but I can see that SU isn't pulling any bullshit agenda, people are complaining about perceived threats to the status quo that aren't there.
>>
>>78194209

>She didn't fix her flaws or do anything about it, or even face any real punishment/consequences.

Wow, so then you don't actually watch the show? There were consequences for her actions. Garnet gave her the cold shoulder, and literally split apart because Ruby flat-out wanted to push Pearl's shit in for what she did.

And for her part, Pearl has been trying to fix her flaws for a very long time but she can't really make that choice for herself. Did you miss the part where Pearls are custom-made, pre-programmed luxury secretary slaves? She's doing her damnedest to be an independent person but it's hard because it literally isn't within her nature. It's like a toaster trying to become a coffee maker.

But nonetheless, she tried. Pearl realized that she fucked up and went full retard trying to catch Peridot to make it up to Garnet. Garnet, after having sufficiently gotten over her anger, was able to talk things out with Pearl like a reasonable, rational adult.

Bottom line? I honestly don't believe you know what a Mary Sue even is.
>>
>>78194282
>representation and shipping purposes

In the show? When?
>>
>>78194209
That's not remotely the definition of a Mary Sue.
>>
>>
>>78194659
No, fuck you.

Just, fuck you.
>>
>>78178422
I thought Mary Sue was an author-insert, so the author could live out their fantasy ? Who on the production staff is Rose a stand-in for?
>>
>>78194724
Wow, is that the true original definition for it? Just a mere author-insert to live out fantasy?

I just thought it meant a character that could be described as having no flaws and having no problem solving the conflict in the story and having all the characters unnaturally like them and such?

Basically, the mary sue is a character wherein reality in their universe is bent for the sake of them looking good and perfect, which is why many OCs who are made that have some type of specialness wherein they're related to an important character in the canon story are looked down upon.
>>
>>78194532
>Wow, so then you don't actually watch the show?
Wow good reading comprehension reminding me of a thing I stated (the splitting up ) in the very same post

>and literally split apart because Ruby flat-out wanted to push Pearl's shit in for what she did.

I don't think you understand, for a Mary Sue affecting others, even miserably =/= consequences for them self. I was referring to retribution, actual punishment. Making everyone pissed off at her for a little bit and splitting OTHERS up isn't much of a consequence.

>Pearl realized that she fucked up and went full retard trying to catch Peridot to make it up to Garnet. Garnet, after having sufficiently gotten over her anger, was able to talk things out with Pearl like a reasonable, rational adult.
That's not enough. Unless it mobilizes into any real change or development it's just the equivalent of an edgy mary sue stewing in ANGST and whining over their problems and flaws despite not fixing anything until they're just "Forgotten", and that's pretty sueish in itself.

>Pearl realized that she fucked up and went full retard trying to catch Peridot to make it up to Garnet. Garnet, after having sufficiently gotten over her anger, was able to talk things out with Pearl like a reasonable, rational adult.
I could say the same, it's not about a specific character but how they affect the plot or narrative. If Pearl were the main character overcoming her flaws like this I'd give her some leniency, but she's not and we have a vague plot to work around, as is we've spent enough screen time just wasting around seeing her preach, screw up, cry and be forgiven, fail to change and chew up the scenery in the same cycle again and again. It's not enjoyable if nothing actually changes, it's annoying and grating on the viewers patience.

This has as much to do with Pearl as it does the shows pacing overall, but it's obnoxious and noticeable.
>>
>>78194910
Yes.

What you described is a terribly written character.
A Mary Sue is a terribly written character that is inserted into the story from an outside source.
>>
>>78194621
The definition of a Mary Sue isn't so much a "Perfect character" but one who gets lots of attention and screen time for different reasons based around their personality.

They're too perfect, too popular, too flawed and annoying, too unrealistically grounded, ect. Pearl is a such a goddamn sue, she's NEVER fucking wrong, the show casts her in an absolutely ideal light where the audience isn't supposed to ever dislike or fault her, is preachy to the max, hardly as useful as the other gems and just plain obnoxious to watch.
>>
>>78194910
>having no flaws and having no problem solving the conflict in the story and having all the characters unnaturally like them and such?
> reality in their universe is bent for the sake of them looking good and perfect

That describes Pearl to a Tee. Even when she "Messes up" the narrative still bends backwards to shame and reject any interpretation you could have for faulting or disliking her.
>>
>>78195197
You're joking right? The last bomb was an entire five episode testament to her being a huge fuckup.
>>
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>>78195157
>she's NEVER fucking wrong, the show casts her in an absolutely ideal light
oh damn i think i'm being successfully trolled

9/10 you got me
>>
>>78179555
>Lisa Simpson
>Royal chef

What are you, a vegetarian?
>>
>>78195239
Yes, in which she didn't have to feel bad or do anything to resolve that. It just kind of, went away.

That's how all Mary Sues fix their "Flaws". Other characters gripe and shrug at them a bit, but they're all easily forgotten and forgiven without so much a muscle twitch of effort from the perpetrator. Cue them coming to a life-changing epiphany once OTHER characters resolve them of faults and act like they've gone through, learned and changed so much.
>>
>>78184848
Kinda like all shows are tumblr shows here on /co/.
>>
>>78195323
She felt bad the whole time. She STILL feels bad now, the whole fucking time. And she immediately tried her best to resolve it, but she fucked that up too.

Why must you troll us so?
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>>78195323
>Yes, in which she didn't have to feel bad or do anything to resolve that. It just kind of, went away.

SHE FELT TERRIBLE THE ENTIRE TIME

AND SHE HAD TO MAKE MANY ATTEMPTS TO REPAIR THE RIFT BETWEEN HER AND GARNET BECAUSE OF WHAT SHE DID

THE PROBLEM WAS SOLVED THROUGH HARD WORK AND UNDERSTANDING, AS PROBLEMS IN REAL LIFE OFTEN ARE

IT DIDN'T JUST GO AWAY

DO YOU EVEN PAY ATTENTION WHEN THE SHOW IS ON THE TELEVISION
>>
>>78195157
If you're going to be so blatantly wrong at least use a decent sized image.
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>>78195197
>Pearl
>Having no flaws
>All the characters unnaturally like them
>Looking good and perfect
Nigga what drugs have you been on?

>>78195323
She felt ridiculously bad and made multiple apologies. If it went on any longer Garnet would have been acting unreasonable.
>>
>>78195157
>she's NEVER fucking wrong
Wut

Pearl is presented as in the wrong more often than the rest of the cast combined.
>>
>>78195556
I don't know about that, Amethyst has a pretty impressive rap sheet.
>>
>>78193929
>implying these faggots have ever paid attention to the dialogue
>>
>>78195600
I can only think of like, 3 instances.
>>
>>78179555
>Hawkeye Pierce
>Mary Sue
It's like you never watched the damn show

Also he should be your royal physician
>>
>>78185666
Devil's trips confirm.

>Not having Colorless Diamond hard reset gem society if YD tried to do anything like that.
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>>78195456
>>78195473
You're missing the point of a sue.

When Pearl "Feels bad", the narrative isn't doing it to shame her or drive the audience to share her guilt or feel bad about what she did. It was blatantly meant for the viewer to identify with her. You're supposed to give her MORE sympathy, pity and like her more for what she did. It's not that Garnet and the others are wrong but the way it's set up, the show aims to alleviate and Pearl a positive light even when she's clearly done something wrong.

It's kind of like when in Sailor Moon Usagi screws up because she's a lazy stupid klutz, rather than condemning her for it's seen as cute and quirky and meant to make the audience like her even more, since it's such a charming, superficial flaw. That's what it's like watching Pearl half the time, even when she fucks it up it feels like Sugar is trying to make you adore and sympathize her even more for her superficial faults, not condemn her.

It's that subtle suism that grates so heavily.
>>
>Oh wow, I'm a smart, educated, special snowflake girl who likes fanfiction
>Oh wow, whenever Steven and I get into trouble, I always save his ass despite him having actual powers
>Oh wow, I'm so oppressed by my parents, it's wrong for them to want what's best for me
>Oh wow, I'm a natural sword fighter who can hold her own against a thousand year old warrior after a week of training
>Oh wow, it's obvious I was set up to be a love interest but the creators will never take me beyond a close platonic relationship because reducing female characters to the girlfriend is sexist
>Oh wow, I'm a minority with an ethnic surname, but a short, western easy to pronounce first name so no one ever has trouble with it, which would be racist

I'm disgusted by how flawless the creators have made her. Everything she might have even been in the wrong on could be easily deflected as being her parents fault or something. And to top that off, the creators are probably going to start bringing her into fights, as if the only combat advantage the gems have on humans is technique.
>>
>>78193918
Which ended up having no impact on her standing and ultimately did nothing to affect her in any way. In fact, she only found it hilarious.

Once again, bitch is a legit Sue.
>>
>>78196099
She doesn't have any real flaws because she doesn't have any special talents, interests or even much of a personality either. She is in her own words, completely non-interesting. That's the dullest thing about her.

That's a different kind of sue, yeah.
But she's not the main character so it balances out.
>>
>>78196099
>>78196175
This. She's the weakest member of the main cast but she's hardly a Sue. She's like an Asami.
>>
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>>78194705
Just because she's your waifu doesn't mean she isn't a candidate you furry piece of shit
>>
>>78195946
Uh, no. We're supposed to understand why she did it, but it's still clear that what she did was wrong.

She's not forgiven because what she did was fine, but because she's apologized, clearly learned from her mistake, and it's in the past.
>>
>>78196175
She's pretty much been the main character of whatever episode she's been in, with a few exceptions. It wasn't bad when they first introduced her, but her lacking any concrete personality traits besides minor submissiveness, which she got over pretty fucking quickly, is getting really damn annoying. Man, it's crazy how fast the show tanked in writing quality after Jailbreak.
>>
>>78195946
>the narrative isn't doing it to shame her or drive the audience to share her guilt or feel bad about what she did.
Yes it is, but more with the context of understanding her.

Also Pearl's flaws aren't superficial at all, they're really deeply rooted and at times make her a danger to herself and others.

Stop trolling, troll.
>>
>>78195946
>You're supposed to give her MORE sympathy, pity and like her more for what she did. It's not that Garnet and the others are wrong but the way it's set up, the show aims to alleviate and Pearl a positive light even when she's clearly done something wrong.
That's not a Mary Sue then. A Mary Sue fails at making the audience like them or feel sympathy for them, because their actions are shown as right in the narrative, or they areportrayed as too perfect, even though the audience finds them irritating. A character that actually has flaws, and is acknowledged to have flaws, but the story still makes an effort to make you see things from their perspective and have sympathy for them, to still like them, is the opposite of a Mary Sue.
>>
>>78196262
>Also Pearl's flaws aren't superficial at all
Realistically and story wise, their impact really isn't. Within the context of her own arc they completely are.

She seems more like a vehicle to bring out problems/vapid resolutions than a real character at times.

>>78196284
It's a specific kind of sue that's difficult to explain. In the same way that Logan or Doctor Who fuck everything up all the time and have glaring flaws, but they never "really" try to fix it or develop, but angst and whine until people cry and we act like it's all better. Their actions are still wrong and narrative acknowledges it, but aesthetically it's supposed to make the audience like and sympathize with them. That's the problem, the flaws and mistakes AREN'T acknowledged as flaws and instead enhance their appeal. A story that makes too much of an effort to sympathize rather than draw you away from a character can set up just as much of a sue.

It's like CLICKBAIT but for character development. Bait and switch. Flawed but not really, since those flaws end up enhancing a character so you like them more.

>Oh wow Logan, you snkt'd a hundred people and murdered your wife/son/mutants, are violent and unstable. So sad and violent, woe is him. Isn't it just adorable?
>Gee Golly Doctor you commited genocide and abandon everyone you come across, have no commitment and are a universal sociopath inviting malice everywhere you go in the guise of quirkyness. Never change. So charming sugoi~
>Woops Pearl, you Raped your best friend, have an obsession with your mentor, and constantly scold her daughter/other friend. It's okay, you know best though! Your struggles just make you more quirky and deep, so cute! Mess up more without resolution so we can cry with you and pray you never have to change.
Sueism is a complicated phenomenon in writing and literary topics.

>Everyone that has a different opinion than me must be having a giggle n trying to get a rise
Why are Pearlfags so damn defensive?
>>
>>78196594
You've taken the term "Mary Sue" far beyond anything resembling it's original definition.

Like, what do you consider NOT to be a Sue? A character who is hated for their mistakes forever?
>>
>>78196672
For starters, a character whose mistakes nor accomplishments aren't milked for sympathy and drama.

But that would have to occur in a show that doesn't revolve around FEELS XD and crying suddenly every other episode. And SU has really dropped the ball in that category lately.
>>
>>78196735
Without sympathy, the audience is less invested in the conflict. And without drama, you don't have a story.
>>
>>78196773
Sympathy has to come from genuine struggle. Suffering, adversity, real conflict.

The drama introduced through Pearl's fuckups would've been a good chance to really introduce those in, but they took the easy way out each time so it hardly carries weight. That's why the drama in this show feels so forced, the conflict isn't addressed appropriately for the subject matter.
>>
>>78196852
What else would you have happen? It would be unreasonable of Garnet if she'd kept the grudge for longer than she did.
>>
>>78196594
But she doesn't know best, she's 'quirky' but not in a cute way, more awkward and brittle. And she's been trying to change.

You keep saying dumb things without justification, that's why people think you're trolling you troll.

Also your explanation for how her flaws are superficial is complete nonsense.
>>
>>78196927
Something that moved and was better incorporated into the plot? For instance, some kind of conflict while Garnet and Pearl are still broken up inside over it (Possibly with Garnet splitting) in an urgent situation that really demands their cooperation and unity. It ends really badly for them and they need to reconcile swiftly and dramatically to save face.

Without any momentum that whole opportunity felt really slow and like an unneeded side arc that didn't develop much.
>Gotta go fast gotta catch Perdiot
>Blahblahbloo destroy tower let's fuse~nope you tricked me boo hoo
>We're fighting now
>Nope now we made up
>Okay back to whatever we were doing before gotta play catchup

When I speak of "milked drama" I mean sappy saccharine screen huggling that doesn't move the plot nor resolve anything.

I felt the same way about Ruby and Sapphire's brief split. They clearly upset over the situation and had issues to work out, but just spontaneously broke into tears and made up because "We made Steven feel bad welp guess our argument is solved now." Imagine if Peridot or a monster had attacked when Garnet AND Pearl had all been split up? That'd be such a good time to show how their faltering emotional vulnerability exposed them physically and put them in a bad spot.

But that'd also demand good writing. So we cannot expect something like that.

I guess this isn't so much me whining about Pearl as the writing as a whole not being as sharp and tight as it could be.
>>
>>78197179
>For instance, some kind of conflict while Garnet and Pearl are still broken up inside over it (Possibly with Garnet splitting) in an urgent situation that really demands their cooperation and unity. It ends really badly for them and they need to reconcile swiftly and dramatically to save face.
That is literally what happened.
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>>78197126
>Superficial
>su·per·fi·cial
>ˌso͞opərˈfiSHəl/Submit
>adjective
>existing or occurring at or on the surface.
>"the building suffered only superficial damage"
>synonyms: surface, exterior, external, outer, outside, slight
>"superficial burns"
>antonyms: deep, thorough
>situated or occurring on the skin or immediately beneath it.
>"the superficial muscle groups"
>appearing to be true or real only until examined more closely.

My explanation was merely that those flaws only exist on the surface to be just that, "flaws". They don't serve any purpose for the plot, story, cast or even do much for Pearl.

AT did this too, I'm sure you could say it's a character "Flaw" that the writers made Finn trick his girlfriend into beating someone up so could get off, or went around kissing girls. That's creepy, disgusting, and inappropriate, and in a deeper work that kind of "flaw" could be explored intensely.

But there were no real consequences in the 'long term' so it was superficial.

Having flaws and making mistakes for the sake of flaws is superficial. It's not nonsensical.
>>
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>>78196216
Not mai waifu I just like seeing Rigby happy.
>>
>>78197207
Yeah but that was shitty, swift and forced. I didn't mean in the span of 3 minutes just because they're thrown in a life or death situation.

The situation just was thrown in to forcibly end the conflict, their emotional dilemma didn't cause or lead to that death trap at all.
>>
>>78197253
"Long term" doesn't really mean anything. It lasted for multiple episodes, then got resolved.

The length of a conflict doesn't make it more or less real.

Peral's mistakes weren't for the sake of mistakes. It told a story that told us a lot about her and Garnet's characters, and meshes well with their histories and behavior so far.
>>
>>78197287
Prior to that we also had an episode devoted to Garnet getting over her seething anger towards Pearl, because she realized it was destructive to herself and those around her.
>>
>>78197294
>The length of a conflict doesn't make it more or less real.
Sure it does, where's the emotional payoff or buildup if a problem not only doesn't lead anywhere but is wrapped up via deus ex machinas in a couple of minutes and never mentioned ago? That's shoddy writing.

It's not just an issue with Pearl but the format of SU favoring these episodic episodes where problems are introduced that cannot be resolved properly.
>>
>>78197341
First you misuse Mary Sue, now Deus Ex Machina.

A magical thing did not come in to fix the problem. Pearl gave a sincere apology and explanation after Garnet had time to reconsider her anger. That's not an asspull at all.
>>
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>>78178422
>>
>>78197306
And than Garnet's anger was spontaneously resolved and gotten over because "ablooabloo we made Steve feel sad let's not be angry anymore because Steve."

I wish the writers would learn it's okay to leave some issues and aspects ambiguous, ambiguity is better than a forced ham-fisted resolution atleast.
>>
>>78197382
No? She didn't forgive Pearl in Keystone Motel. Hell, I'm not sure she even completely forgave Pearl by the end.
>>
>>78197382
>And than Garnet's anger was spontaneously resolved and gotten over because "ablooabloo we made Steve feel sad let's not be angry anymore because Steve."
But she was still pissed at Pearl even after that point. She just calmed down about it some.
>>
>>78197364
Its was narrative device to force them to bury the whole issue. That's why the Death Trap existed.
>Deus ex machina (Latin: [ˈdeʊs ɛks ˈmaː.kʰJ.naː]: /ˈdeJ.əs ɛks ˈmɑːkiːnə/ or /ˈdiːəs ɛks ˈmækɨnə/;[1] plural: dei ex machina)
>The term has evolved to mean a plot device whereby a seemingly unsolvable problem is suddenly and abruptly resolved by the contrived and unexpected intervention of some new event, character, ability or object.

>Pearl gave a sincere apology and explanation after Garnet had time to reconsider her anger. That's not an asspull at all.
And it took several episodes to waste everyones time with that before we could get back to the dragging storyline. probably to never be mentioned again. Clap clap.
>>
>>78197253
Pearl's need for acceptance which she compensates for by being a prissy know-it-all has been well established by this point.

And dude, you don't get to say what the plot and story is or isn't. Because the story is Steven's life with the crystal gems, and Pearl's horrific flaws effect her relationship with Steven.
>>
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>>78197447
are you complaining that, to avoid a deus ex machina in the short term, they waited to solve the problem later with something equally contrived?

That's fucking stupid.
You're fucking stupid.
>>
>>78193265
how about when she takes over control of him and reverts back to herself.
>>
>>78197520
I would really, really fucking hate this show and Sugar if Rose came back in any way at all to help out.

Undermines the entire fucking point of Steven.
>>
>>78197595
This thread has people on both sides of the argument not having a fucking clue what a Mary Sue is.

It's like watching two people argue over the color red because one says it's blue and the other says it's purple.

Holy shit is it stupid, but it has nothing to do with SU.
>>
>>78197619
The thread has been largely polluted by SUfags though.
>>
>>78197654
The OP was someone from SU that was argued to be a Sue. Then someone tried to defend them as not a Sue while giving the wrong definition. Then someone tried to argue with that anon while ALSO giving the wrong definition.

I know you're trying to bait me but I'm taking this in a different direction. I hate everyone in this thread equally.
>>
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>>78178422
Give me an episode where she is "wrong"
>>
>>78197677
I'm not the anon who said >>78197595, I'm just saying. In my experience, posting anything SU related in any general topic threads (ones like "bad characters in good shows", "say a negative thing about a show you like", "ITT annoying characters", etc.) will result in the entire thread being overtaken by SUfags bitching back and forth.
>>
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>>78197806
>>
>>78197806
S1 E11, "Tom's Rhinoplasty."
S6 E10, "Bebe's Boobs Destroy Society"
>>
>>78179555
>>78187964
I'm gonna have a lot of fun with this.
>>
>>78187370

And that wasn't the first time he had abandoned one world for another. He clearly fucked up another Earth in the past and left it behind too.
>>
>>78197862
Interestingly enough, there are a LOT of SU fans on /co/ that do not want to go to /trash/ because they don't like the "General" part of the fanbase any more than they like the "tumblr" part.
Like me.

A lot of fans get really fucking defensive about the show because a lot of really shitty criticism gets lobbed at it that either doesn't make sense or is an outright lie from someone that has never watched the show. That these fans feel the need to defend the show EVERY GOD DAMNED TIME is something I chalk up to the sheer number of fans on the board.

The SU fanbase is unbelievably easily baited. It's fucking nuts, man. They feel the need to defend the show because it is, honestly, a really great show with a FUCKING HORRIBLE fanbase that encompasses a massive amount of hamplanet demisexual otherkin.
Everyone's so eager to separate themselves from other parts of the fanbase that things spread out and you have fans of the same show attempting to force each other to leave the site.

I'm not sure what I'm arguing here, to be honest. SU fans are horrible but for entirely different reasons than most people bring up like being "tumblr". Too many people on a site treating any insult to the show like a personal attack and it's really embarrassing.
>>
>>78197967
Also the Photoshop episode.
>>
>>78199158
But she wasn't wrong in that episode. She just ended up losing.
>>
>>78179630

No, The Russki is correct,
>>
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>>78180465
>>
>>78179118
>means

The problem is, in divorcing it from its roots as a pejorative term for a fanfic author's wish-fulfillment self-insert, "Mary Sue" has become a ridiculously-meaningless term, working out to nothing more than "a character I don't like". That's insufficient for any meaningful conversation on the topic.
>>
>>78185021
I think she's very close to being a Mary Sue but I'm not sure if she is.

On one hand the main reason she always wins is because the writers want her to.
But then that's obviously just to push the main cast into developing so when the season ends they can all team up and combine their strengths to beat her.
>>
>>78178422
>fat character with sword and shield
why is this acceptable?
>>
That design is awful. She looks like someone's aunt with a pink sword and shield. There is no power here: she looks like she'll fall flat on her back gasping for air mid-battle.
>>
>>78179705
A Mary Sue can have glaring flaws. What is important is that a Mary Sue warps the narrative of the universe by his own existence.

Other characters talk about him when he is not here, because they can't have any meaningful existence by themselves. Every single decision is taken by him, or concern him directly. He solves all the issues of the plot or kickstart the issues, or even do both simultaneously. Be it good, evil, right or wrong, he overshadows absolutely everyone by his existence.

Rick is a pure Mary Sue. A good one, a funny one. A Mary Sue is not always bad, look at Doctor Who, by example. I like him. But Rick and Morty without Rick would not be called 'Morty', but nothing, because it simply could not, would not exist.
>>
>>78193929
Everyone knows this your faggot.

But Goku is too stupid to lower his guard anyway, it wouldnt be hard.
>>
>>78202002
good thing she's an alien famo
>>
>>78202045
No, that's bad writing
a mary sue has to be a self insert.

Confucius was right
>>
>>78202045
This is not what a Mary Sue is

What next, the Beast is a Mary Sue because the entire premise of the story revolves around him?
>>
>>78187964
Anyone got the expanded template of this with the peasants, gate guards, etc?
>>
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>>78187242
Good Sue or Bad Sue?
>>
>>78202471
both please
>>
>>78202066
Whatever you say, man. Looks horrible to me.
>>
>>78186104
which ones aren't?
>>
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Ice Bear
>>
Guys, guys, a successful character whose appeal in his methods of success isn't a Mary Sue.

It's not like Sherlock Holmes is a Mary Sue, right?
>>
>>78179555
The king should be Crom
Also River Song should be in there somewhere
>>
>>78197806
If dolphins aren't stupid why do they live in igloos?
>>
>>78188528
Korra was not a Mary Sue.She made mistakes and had obvious character flaws that got her into trouble.
>>
I kind of stopped watching SU after Stronger Than You, just sorta lost interest in-between breaks- but I'd fucking adore it if Rose just casually recreated herself, destroying Steven in the process towards the end.
>>
>>78194910
Mary Sue is either the author's self insert or a perfect character without flaws depending on the story.
>>
>>78194910
>I just thought it meant a character that could be described as having no flaws and having no problem solving the conflict in the story and having all the characters unnaturally like them and such?
Yes. That is a Mary Sue. Usually, it happens as a product of a self insert avatar onto the story
>>
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>>78178422
>>
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Now this guy is a total sue.
>>
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>>78178422
And let's not forget the worst of all.
>>
>>78179864
All of them have busts, its just a fucking abstract art style-human women have the same "pec-like lump" going on too.

This is like the "Gems don't have eats!" shit all over again.
>>
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And this asshole.
>>
>>78185285
Steven's immune to the Homeworld anti-gem tech, is a natural leader and has succeeded where Rose failed for FIVE THOUSAND YEARS to slowly, agonizingly get the crystal gems's heads out of their asses in regards to humanity being more than funny little pets.

He IS the plan.
>>
>>78204123
He's more of an anti-sue since nothing ever goes right for him.

>>78204097
Zuko had flaws,got character development and became a better person.He was rarely right and most of his life sucked.
>>
>>78204176
You clearly don't understand what Mary Sue means.
>>
>>78195073
>That's not enough. Unless it mobilizes into any real change or development it's just the equivalent of an edgy mary sue stewing in ANGST and whining over their problems and flaws despite not fixing anything until they're just "Forgotten", and that's pretty sueish in itself.

Ayyyy, get back to me after you watch Back to the Barn and see her accepting that even if she's a pearl she doesn't give a fuck and will punch a nigga, when probably before Friend Ship she'd have a good chance of breaking down. And even after that she's willing to work with Peridot.
>>
>>78204193
I know that Mary Sue means author's self insert or perfect character without flaws.I also know that on /co/ Mary Sue mean"Character they dislike"
>>
>>78204290
That's not sufficient in itself. It has to be a fictional character they dislike SO MUCH that they'll bitch about them extensively online.
>>
>>78194724
The term comes from Star Trek fandom, Ensign Mary Sue.

Its literally supposed to apply to fanfiction but the term's grown into 'characters i don't like' because why the fuck not I guess.
>>
>>78184427
Goku at least dies once in a while. Naruto defies death every time.
>>
>>78179502
This!!!
>>
>>78180670
being all too powerful doesn't make a character a mary sue you turd with legs
>>
>>78180670
As long as they're balanced out in some way it's fine, Luffy is ridiculously powerful but that's balanced out by the fact he depends on his crew for everything, not to mention he's a pirate that can't swim.
>>
>>78204870
The only times Naruto defied death was with the help of others,not because he was some invincible dude.
>>
>>78179525
In desprate threads, its credible.
>>
>>78204290
>I know that Mary Sue means author's self insert
But that's wrong.
Thats like confusing venom with toxin
>>
>>78205969
He died three times in the Valley at the End fight alone, the fox revives him every time
>>
People should stop using term Mary Sue because they all have their own definition. It's just a term that needs to be retired due to deterioration.

What's common in them is that Mary Sue has it unreasonably good. Mary Sue as self-instert is a common interpretation - we get characters who act like author but are treated like author feels they deserve. It doesn't need to be self-interest, it might be an ideological ideal that makes all people fawn over your character. Those who do not fawn over the character are vilified or ridiculed. It is impossible to have your character without flaws, because one man's flaws is another man's virtue. So Mary Sue is someone subduing entire complex outlooks to their whim.

Another interpretation is a character unreasonable successful or efficient which is far more subjective. A character that never fails break suspension of disbelief and a too powerful character might break tension.
>>
>>78179705
>>78187370
Mary Sues aren't defined by lack of flaws so much as they are by lack of any real conflict or challenge.
>>
>>78193450
>showing he's a clear atheist in a foxhole.
You mean the exact opposite of what you said.
>>
>>78204065
>>78204123
>>78204141
what
>>
>>78180263
That has nothing to do with being a Mary Sue. All the "dark backstory" OCs you see are exactly the same: huge amounts of baggage. But can you really say that anything has actually challenged them in-story?
The LITERAL Mary Sue had baggage.
>>
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>>
>>78209740
None of these characters are Sues.
>>
>>78209751
He's on a team full of well meaning(I think) assholes and is a paranoid,manipulative asshole himself.His best friend has issues and he's usually wrong.Tim is suffering,not a Mary Sue.
>>
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this girl is a Mary Sue , definitely
>>
>>78187582
>I was hoping to meet her here...so I could beat her into the ground!
>>
>>78209811
Nothing is gonna wipe "I was just holding back",being on par with dick in acrobatics,and being smarter than lex luthor (I think) off his Mary Sue plate
>>
>>78209908
Since when was Tim any of the things you mentioned?
>>
>>78204175
>He IS the plan.

Bullshit. Rose herself didn't even think humanity was more that funny little pets until she met Greg.

Rose's machinations didn't extend past "I want to bring life into the world through love."
>>
>>78209933
since nufiddy-too
>>
>>78194056
Pardon my tropes, but Korra's more of a "writer's pet" than a sue.
>>
>>78210043
Are you sure we read the same New 52?Tim is smart but he screws up constantly,is paranoid and has to deal with the dysfunction that is the Titans.He only looks right because the other Titans are messed up but he's always wrong.
>>
>>78210338
If Korra was a writer's pet she would have had an easier time.
>>
>>78210429

>make stupid choices that even a retarded 6 year old wouldn't make
>make no emotional or intellectual progression as a character for 4 fucking seasons
>but no matter how badly you fuck up, someone or something always comes around at the last possible moment to bail you out and make things work
>"not having an easy time"
>>
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the original mary sue
>>
>>78210629
>>make no emotional or intellectual progression as a character for 4 fucking seasons
Did you even watching the fucking show?
>>
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this character is a Total Mary Sue
>>
>>78197372
Does Coast to coast count?
>>
>>78210786
Wow, fan art used to be ... um.
>>
>>78210338
Well, it's a lot easier for me to be apathetic towards a "writer's pet"
>>78210429
>>78210886
Shit either came easy or the narrative would contrive ways to torture the fuck outta this insanely capable avatar to get me to care even tho she's either boring or devilishly annoying more than half the time
>Mary Sue, no?
>>
>>78178452
Daily Reminder: The VA of Rick and Morty has even said he comes on 4chan to shitpost about the show.
>>
>>78195473
>>78195456
Yeesh people get really pissy when you call their waifu a Mary Sue.
>>
>>78187541
If Hank was a Mary Sue, half of the shit that happens to him wouldn't happen in the first place.
>>
Silk in her original appears. Shit, in her fourth issue she reverted for a bit, punching Peter in the face for helping her, and o one called her out on her bullshit.

But for real, that "Spidey's powers but better, minus strength" was some outhouse bullshit.
>>
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>take an experimental weapon
>they fucking evade the cops
>they shut down the hoover dam
>they then get the cops called on them and board a nun bus barely evading the cops AGAIN
>they then get back onto the senior citizen bus and EVADE IT YET A FUCKING AGAIN
>they go to the white house
>where beavis evades the cops YET AGAIN
>he enters a trailer and is kicked out and forgets his pants where the device is
>he fucking goes outside and doesn't get shot as the guy who kicked him out has the pants
>THE GUY WHO IS INNOCENT GETS ARRESTED

AND WORST OF FUCKING ALL

BEAVIS AND BUTTHEAD GET THE TV BACK
>>
>>78212508
>They're never gonna score
>>
Mary Sue's never die.
>>
>>78181998
it was confirmed by Rebecca that the gems have tits!
>>
>>78212508
It's more like in old-fashion cartoons/films where a guy sleepwalks through an active construction site and miraculously dodges everything
>>
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>>78181998
>>78212909
Flat Pearl best Pearl.

>>78212498
Silk is the worst, recent capeshit example I can think of.
>Jessica Drews pheromones shit only for PETER.
>Natural webs from the FINGER TIPS
>FASTER, MORE AGILE, KNOWS KARATE
>Like aCTUAL karate and not your homemade Way Of the Spider nonsense that Shang Chi specifically taught you!!!
>No one knows who she is simply because of a half mask and putting her hair up
>She has a news job just like Pete only shes better at it, JJJ is there too!

She's sort of been saved, being made into a bumbling rookie, but her entire premise is and forever will be, garbo.
>>
>>78210338
I'd argue Mako was the writer's pet, especially in the first two seasons.
>>
>>78212909
The gems don't have tits, it's pretty obvious when looking at any of the gems whose clothes have low necklines but don't show cleavage like Jasper or Peridot. Even Garnet didn't have cleavage when she wore her beach outfit but her torso is a literal oval so it wouldn't really make sense for her to have breasts.

Rose is the only gem with boobs.
>>
>>78184381
>you cant be a mary sue if your an ass (rick)
Those are call "Jerk Sue"
>>
>>78195157
>>78195506
Why is bayonette hanging with peril
>>
>>78202045
A Mary Sue can have "flaws", but they just cannot have flaws.

Their flaws aren't allowed to actually be flaws. A Mary Sue might trot that they have flaws, but really their flaws only serve to make them more endearing or something similar, rather than actually being a negative thing.
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