How could we make edgymaster here grow beyond his one dimensional

already happened. read Ennis' run. the MAX run specifically.

>>78018224
He was Frankenstein for a while.

How could we make MUHFUN faggot here grow beyond his one dimensional heroes don't kill capeshit status quo

Punisher isn't for people like you, stick to capes

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>>78018254
This. Ennis' MAX run somehow managed to do the two best things to do with a one-dimensional character.
Firstly, it used him to explore different themes and tell other peoples' stories. Themes of warfare, revenge, trauma, crime, the effect of war and violence on people and communities, and so on. Stories about soldiers, mobsters, innocents caught in the crossfire, and a lot more. Through all this, Castle is a sort of guide through the world, a fixed point of stubborn determination that moves the reader forward through all these stories, characters and themes.
But at the same time, MAX managed to also inject a certain degree of depth to Castle as a character himself. Far from rationalizing his actions as those of a righteous vigilante in a corrupt world, it raised questions about his motivations and actions. It didn't develop him per se. Castle doesn't change much, if at all, during the whole run. But it did add a few depths to him and wasn't afraid to explore him.
I think the best example of this are the last two arcs, Long, Cold Dark and Valley Forge. The former is all about Castle as a character, about his story and his motivations. The latter is all about the themes that Ennis had touched upon the run, especially those of war and its effect on people.
To me that's the two things you can do with a character as one dimensional as Castle, and in my eyes, the run did both and did them flawlessly.

>>78018224
How do we make faggots like you go back to >>>/reddit/?

Frankencastle is better than Max
Ruckas was the best.

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>>78018224
First ya gotta sexy him up

>>78018224
Put him in hilarious hijinks with a lovable pet partner...like Turner and Hooch but slightly more violent.

>>78018224
By actually reading a Punisher comic so you know what you're talking about.

FRANK THREAD?
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>>78018224
>>78018254
>>78018565
Frank is more a force of nature than a character. The reason Ennis' run worked so well is because he had the stories happen *around* Frank rather than being *about* Frank.

Easiest way is to not make him one-dimensional. That being, strip away is "criminals all deserve to die" mindset.

Basically he only kills criminals who REALLY deserve it, lesser ones he turns in to the cops.

Then put him in a crapload of REALLY morally ambiguous situations. Constantly push his morality to the limit so he has to make really tough calls on what is "justice".

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>>78020373
I honestly think he managed to pull both. Most of the stories happen around Frank, they're about other people, but there are stories, like Up Is Down, Black Is White, Long Cold Dark or The Cell, that are very much about Frank. And peppered through the run, on small doses, there are also bits and pieces of his mindset and shifting motivations.

>>78020405
Why do non Punisher fans feel the character needs to be tailored to fit their fucking taste? Leave the character alone, he doesn't need you in his fanbase. He does fine....he sells enough merch without you

>>78020889
That's how all non fans behave.

>>78019503
>Ruckas was the best.
Agreed. Lady-Punisher was kawaii and its focus on her made Frank seem all the more threatening/mythic.

Also the beard.

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I'll take any excuse to post my Franks.

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>>78021169

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>>78021176

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>>78021185

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>>78021190

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>>78021194

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>>78021205

>>78020003
they did that. sort of. he had a dog for awhile.

>>78019700
Don't mind if I do

>>78021097
Ain't that the truth

I think a story where he shoots an innocent by accident has potential for character work. I mean, those giant assault rifles he lugs around aren't really the most precise looking things in the world, and he's almost always causing huge gunfights in dense cities.

>>78021224
wasn't it a coyote

or am i thinking of a different animal

>>78021297

Frank would shoot himself immediately after

>>78021333
If that's the case I'm surprised he's still alive then.

I mean, he's a comic book character so of course he's still alive, but you know what I mean.

>>78021297
>I think a story where he shoots an innocent by accident has potential for character work.
It happened, was called the movie Warzone Punisher and fans freaked out because it was out of character and goes against his natural plot powers.

Besides, while I personally didn't care about that in the movie, I see nothing wrong with Frank having plot powers the same way every freaking comic character does. These comics are fantasies, they don't need to be realistic...if your fantasy is to murder a bunch of evil doers murdering innocent people probably isn't part of it, comics are meant to cater to people's fantasies of power

>>78021418
Frank literally has plot powers in EnnisMAX. It's implied that the entity that spoke to him in Vietnam is the reason why he's been able to take so many wounds without suffering long-term injury and all but stated the reason why he's rarely bothered by the federal government is due to Fury.

>>78021624
>implied
it got confirmed in Punsiher: Purgatory. That entity was the demon Olivier and so long as Frank wears his 'flag' (the skull that resembles Olivier's face) every single person Punisher kills, Olivier gets dibs on their soul. So it's in his best interests to make sure Frank never dies or kills himself

>>78021333
At one point (don't recall title, took place in Mexico IIRC) Frank indeed thought he'd killed an innocent. He almost ate his gun but decided to doublecheck and the wound was wrong for his weapons.
So yeah, you're right. He was entirely resolved to kill himself if he'd indeed killed the girl.

>>78019503
>ruckas was the best

This meme needs to stop

>>78021771
It was the Max arc right after Ennis left. Didn't care much for it, it introduced Jigsaw and I quit Max there.

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It's been done. You're asking how to rehash. Go to M2 and give Juggernaut Jr a saving faith in Jesus Christ.

>>78021718
>>78021624
I fucking hate this, he did fine in maxx if you take out the demon bargain bullshit.

He keeps himself going on hate, patches himself up, and is OOC when he takes hits too hard.

I think the demon thing was a company mandate at the time as well.


Anyway wanna talk about in the reign run how punisher nukes his reezed family and freaks out about it for a while after?

>>78021624
>Frank literally has plot powers in EnnisMAX. It's implied that the entity that spoke to him in Vietnam is the reason why he's been able to take so many wounds without suffering long-term injury and all but stated the reason why he's rarely bothered by the federal government is due to Fury.

No, that isn't "plot powers" really...by plot powers I mean simply they he can open fire constantly and only ever seem to hurt innocent people (without explanation). Just like Batman can dodge an infinite amount of bullets, or Spider-Man can take super strength punches but can be injured by puncture wounds, Frank can fire freely and only hit people who deserve it

>>78022004
>if you take out the demon bargain bullshit
You don't need to take it out. You just need to read it as Frank making a bargain with the dark, twisted monster inside of himself that allows him to be The Punisher, relinquishing his soul to his own base malice, that allows him to bitterly survive any atrocity for the sake of inflicting horrors on the monsters of the world.

That's always been my reading of it, even if a dark supernatural force is a valid reading too with back up from the author.

>>78022058
That's how i read it, but the thing that set me off was when micro says the same thing verbatem a few issues later. That was probably the shittiest parts of that book. I'm just glad it's mostly ignorable.

>>78020405
The best Punisher stories understand this.

He's not a thrill killer, or a random maniac. He sees you smoking pot or shoplifting or whatever, he puts the fear of God in you then goes about his way.

He's after mobsters, murderers, pedophiles, and traffickers. He's after the people who organize to cause the most suffering and death.

Then Runaways has him hunting down damn children because the writer has a hateboner for Punisher he just HAD to satiate.

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>>78021320

He had a dog first, then a coyote.

The dog is probably dead by know, while the coyote's fate is currently ambiguous.

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>>78021718

>>78019503
>Ruckas was the best.
It was shit.

>>78023063
>>78021776
Bad taste.

>>78019503
No way in hell is Frankencastle better than MAX.

Still great though.

>>78024752
>liking Rucka

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>>78023036
Punisher: Born is one of the best comicbooks of all time.

>>78021207
I like this panel so fucking much