If ever there was doubt that we as comic book fans don't

A reminder that retailers purposefully under ordered DCYou books to stick it to them for changing return-ability cut-off dates.

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Hey we managed to get Omega Men its promised 12 issues, and Prez is getting a trade release at least.

But still
>JLU axed right when it was getting awesome
>no more Gotham by Midnight

>>77826808
Wrong, OP. We are not to blame, tumblr and Disney-funded websites are.

But don't worry, both will shut up once they realize that demolishing a pillar of the industry makes the whole building go down.

I supported it anon! I went to the comic shop just to buy all the DC You titles. Now I'm depressed it's just going to go back to the way things were.

>>77826893
>We are not to blame
>Board that pirates almost all of their comics

Come on dude.

>>77826931
>Now I'm depressed it's just going to go back to the way things were.

They got Greg Pak writing Teen Titans and Tim Seeley on Suicide Squad. Things might actually end up not being so bad.

>>77826808
What is that I see? Black creator? Are those women? Even Asian dudes!
Why DC didn't shill the fuck out of them? Marvel likes doing that?

They should fire their PR team and whoever thought doing this in the
midst of secret wars.

>>77826934
I pirate and then buy if I like the book. What about you?

>>77826960
Now tells us how Avengers will flop!

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>>77826893
>we, the people who beg for quality content then when we get it resort to piracy, are not to blame for comics selling poorly

As much as I enjoy DCYou and will mourn it's passing, DC fucked up big time by not buoying DCYou with more high profile launches.

JLA was the only book they launched that was a bonafide Top 10 book out of the gate, and even then EVERYONE knew that book wouldn't have legs.

>>77826934
>>77826989
MAFIAA gtfo

>>77826808
The only thing out of DCYou that I've liked is Secret Six. And that was a book that could have been released back in 2011 at the beginning of the New 52.

>>77826980
>Now tells us how Avengers will flop!

Avengers sucked.

>>77826979
>can't do advertising during a marvel event

marvel's always doing events tho

I'm not a DCfag, but I feel your pain.
As far as I can tell, DC doesn't have good reputation nor PR. In many ways this >>77826979
anon is right.

>>77827049
>DC doesn't have good reputation
Among tumblr, you mean.

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Is Batgirl considered the most successful DC You title?

>DC's best books are the lowest sellers
fuck this gay earth

>>77827066
>that belt
After she's done playing Batgirl, she works as electrician.

>>77827064
>Among tumblr, you mean.

God enough with the tumblr shit, he's right man. Whether or not their reputation is deserved, he is completely correct that DC has pissed off the community at large and that people are hesitant to give them a second chance. Like this is not a tumblr thing, New 52 is hated even more passionately by longtime grognards then anyone who has a tumblr account.

Is it fair? Probably not, there were multiple New 52 books that are good, and the state of the pre-reboot universe was absolutely dire, but those are the breaks.

>>77827072

That's what it was like from the start of the New 52 too.

>>77826884
Wasn't Convergence kind of a flop for retailers? Tons of issues no one bought just taking up space. After Future's End and Convergence I can understand why they wouldn't want to order DCYou

>>77827118
>the tripfag is tumblr scum too
Why am I not surprised? I'm sure you also read Imagay books.

>>77827064
yes, but also there were a lot of controversies with the creators, writers, editors and shit. I don't really follow the scandals, though.

also, when I look through catalog, all I say is storytimes of marvel comics, and constant hype / discussions about marvel stuff. There is rarely anything Dc-related except bashing threads.

>>77827133
i don't remember Demon knights and Dial H selling that low

>>77827157
Can someone tell me about this Convergence controversy? I always see it mentioned but I'd like to know what happened?

>>77827066
>Batgirl
>DCYou

/a/, you do know that the revamp happened even before Convergence.

>>77827163
*all I see

>>77827163
>hype
>about marvel stuff
Euh...

>>77827183
seconded, educate us.

>>77827044
Is tumblr literally all you can say? DC burnt a lot of people early on and their publicists suck.

How is anyone supposed to know about anything if they don't scream it to high heavens? It's fucking business.

>>77827163
Shills, anon. Shills.

>>77827183
DC screwed the retailers who were basically left with a lot of books (that no one wanted) and no means to turn it into cash, which meant orders for DCYou were lower (why order DC books when you can't get your money back)

So essentially DC screwed themselves. Kinda like the Return of Superman scenario in the 90s.

I really don't know what DC can do at this point. The Batman line is stretched thin and launching a book of new books is just going be flooding the market, Superman has never been a high seller, Justice League books always launch high before drifting down the charts, and Green Lantern just doesn't have the sales potential it once did.

It amazes me that DC seems to be unable to leverage the popularity of Arrow and Flash to make them Top 10 sellers. I mean it's got to be possible right? I mean the GOTG books started selling well after the movie and there's way too fucking many of them now.

>>77827172
Dial H sold like shit

I think it did better than Prez though...

There weren't seriously people who thought this would last more than a year-year and a half or so right?

>>77827072
>>77827133
Why do DC fans have such shit taste? Would they rather buy a mediocre Flash book just because he's popular instead of a good book with a more unknown character?

>>77827186

They still accepted her as part of the DC You initiative.

They purposely timed the 1st volume of Batgirl, Gotham Academy and Grayson during June when they started DC You.

>>77827215
I don't like it either, but that's the truth.
There are constantly the CW threads with memes

>>77827235
Definitely, but one thing that marvel is good at, is programming their audience to be obedient drones. There is reason that marvelfags are called "Marvel Zombies". There is an obvious passive-agressive tone coming from marvel, which is rich, considering that their EIC started his career in Vertigo books.

>>77827240
>were basically left with a lot of books (that no one wanted) and no means to turn it into cash,
Could you be more specific?

>>77827240
How did they screw retailers?

It was unfortunate that Convergence didn't really sell but it drives me insane that there are people who wrote off DC entirely just because of one bad event

>>77827269
Characterfagging in nutshell.

>>77827283
>ne thing that marvel is good at, is programming their audience to be obedient drones
Case in point: >>77827269

>>77826808
WHERE SHAZAM

I'm really glad Convergence was a massive failure since it means that the whiny pissants who are constantly crying about how DC is losing tons of sale by not going back to the old universe got called on their bluff and it ended up being a massive poorly received disaster.

>>77827302
>It was unfortunate that Convergence didn't really sell but it drives me insane that there are people who wrote off DC entirely just because of one bad event

The new 52 was a jumping off point for a lot of old DC fans, Convergence was a jumping off point for the new 52 fans and not all that enticing to the old fans.

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>>77826808
I've purchased every DC book since the start of The New 52.

>>77827347
>the old fans
Fuck them if they hate change so much.

>>77827358
Whatever that program is, it's neat.

>>77827347
One thing that makes me really sad, because there was some really gold stuff like Swamp Thing with Kelley on art, Shadow of the Bat, etc. My relation with DC is off and on, but I genuinely enjoyed this stuff. I didn't really care for the event, but I did got some stuff out of nostalgia.

>>77827358
What's your job anon? Can't imagine blowing so much money on comics. Only buy the ones I really like.

>>77827380
YACReader. And it is very neat anon.

>>77826808
I was loving DCYou, it was great and I found there was a little of everything for everybody. However some people are overly judgmental and marketing was well against DC.

>>77827347
But was nobody interested at all in anything that came after? Or did they just get too upset by Superman's hair to want to read anything?

Marvel's book quality isn't any higher than DC's right now, I'm just lost on how DC's completely flopping and apparently nothing will help

>>77827302
>>77827284
The retailers put their money into ordering these books. The books weren't sellers and they lost money. So they have less money than before and now DC had another event (DCYou). You can tell why the orders were lower: 1) they have less money than projected due to Convergence not panning out and 2) people just lost money betting on one DC event and now DC is asking them to pony up more orders. You can see why Convergence screwed the actual mainline.

>>77827427
They really would've been better off just going with their original plan of not publishing comic books for a couple of months.

>>77826934
not all of us on 4chan pirate our comics, some of us actually use the story times for the intended purpose which is to see if the story is good and then support it

>>77827394
Comics are my primary hobby, so I don't mind investing money into it. And I work customer service, so alright pay and somewhat decent hours.

So what comics from DCYou are you supporting? I'm buying Midnighter, Omega Men, Prez and Section 8.

>all of them sell like shit
Just kill me already.

>>77827409
I'll get look at it tomorrow morning. Thanks anon.

>>77826963
DC doesn't shill as much as Marvel, they usually like to get good stories or good art and let that speak for itself. Diversity is a quota but not a big in your face thing for DC.

>>77827427
meanwhile, Marvel has Secret Wars delayed, and it will sell hot as shit. They also announced that the hip hop variants will be collected and published as a free comic, yet retailers are okay with it.

>>77827446
>They really would've been better off just going with their original plan of not publishing comic books for a couple of months.

Right I totally agree here.

>>77827423
The difference is that Marvel "took care" of their retailer base and made sure they could sell their stock (of comics) to maintain their bottom line at least. I am not saying Marvel hasn't screwed retailers, but the effects of Convergence is pretty clear due to the low orders for DC material afterwards.

>>77827473
ASS8, Midnighter, Omega Men (I buy two fucking floppy sets AND digital copies, Jesus Christ), Prez, JL3001 in floppies, Dr. Fate, Constantine, and a couple others digitally

>>77826979
I will agree with this, DC really does need a PR team that better understands the modern consumer and can easily get information out to the masses in the digital space as well as the physical space.
DC has been doing well for itself with shows like Gotham, Arrow, Flash, and Supergirl and they should be using things like that to their advantage when trying to market their comics

>>77827473
Section 8 disappointed me a little. Ennis really feels nowadays like a demented old person.

Omega Men was something that I liked thanks to storytimes, and yes, /co/'s constant praise was def a factor.

>>77827511
I don't understand how Marvel still sells considering everything, especially events have been garbage for a long time

>>77827423
The difference is Marvel still have their old fans no matter how much they complain and bitch and cry about tumblr. DC lost a significant chunk with their old fans with the reboot.

>>77827511
The retailers will still make bank after this. That didn't happen with Convergence.

>>77827423
>But was nobody interested at all in anything that came after?

So it seems, the new titles werent promoted at all well. DC didn't give anyone a reason to blindly buy Prez or Omega Men.

>I'm just lost on how DC's completely flopping and apparently nothing will help

Cheaper books is a start but as one of the big two, they should be trying to change up the industry.

>>77827477
No problem.

>>77827511
That's one thing I've always wanted to do: Collect their variant covers into a hard-bound book and offer it for sale. Like.. DC Presents: The Variants of 2015, with a short blurb from each artist about the work on the side.

I know it's not a money maker, but it'd be cool.

>>77827534
Yeah but why was interest so low in Convergence to begin with? Events are supposed to do great numbers regardless of how shitty they are, aren't they? Were people really that confused by continuity stuff? Are nostalgiafags an extremely vocal minority that won't put their money where their mouth is?

How did Marvel take care of retailers where DC didn't?

It seems weird that even though the variants and relaunches are tough on retailers they'd still rather keep putting up with Marvel's shit, but when DC does anything similar it completely fucks them overt

>>77827559
I know it was repeated numerously in this thread, but it really boils down to hype, PR, marketing and promotion. For example, the retailers will get the Vision #2 for free, the number being the amount of what their orders of issue #1. Also, movies and brand recognition is the result of massive campaigns, and etc.

I remember the story one anon that worked in LCS said about his boss being a complete Marvel faggot with a mentality that "marvel can't do no wrong". I do think that it's believable.

>>77827423
The quality of DCs main books and events has been much higher for 5+ years now

>>77827614
No name writer telegraphs it isn't a big event

>>77827423
>I'm just lost on how DC's completely flopping and apparently nothing will help

It's worth noting that in spite of everything, DC should still be commended for the fact that they're (for the time being) still planning on finishing publishing Prez and Omega Men.

This alongside the fact that they somehow managed to find solid exciting creative teams for Teen Titans and Suicide Squad, historically the biggest stinkers for the entirety of the New 52 has me confident that they're going to probably keep putting out books that are worth reading even if a bunch of DCYou books are canceled.

DC advertises thier comics the same way Marvel does with the exception of going on day time tv.

>>77827511
At least some retailers are pissy that SW delays caused some of their ANAD books to not sell as well as it could have.

>>77827651
>DC let Secret Six continue until nu52 because it was fucking great
>Marvel give ms/Captain Marvel an unlimited run for marking reasons

>>77827250
The biggest problem is DC isn't using the popularity of the Flash or Arrow to sell the books. The most they tried was slightly changing the art styles or scenarios to more match the shows but those never worked out.

What DC needs is to PR to the public with the Flash and Arrow and remind them that books exist to learn more about their favorite characters, it's what ultimately worked in favor for GOTG

>>77827683
Apparently the Secret Wars tie ins are doing pretty poorly and the collections aren't moving at all

>>77827651
>This alongside the fact that they somehow managed to find solid exciting creative teams for Teen Titans and Suicide Squad
Suicide Squad gets better as NSS goes on. They literally changed the creative team right as the writer got into the groove of things. I get it since they may want a slightly better name on the book when the movie comes out, but still.
Also it doesn't matter who the writer is on TT. Editorial has a stranglehold on it and that'll keep it weak no matter how good the writer is.

>>77827614
Marvel can mobilize their fanbase easier. A large segment of DC's fanbase (outside of batbooks) is at war with DC editorial.

>>77827651
The most recent Rich Johnston rumor was that we're going to see a big creative shake-up for the 50 issue anniversaries of all of the books.

I'll eat my hat if we don't see new creative teams/possible relaunches for Green Lantern, Wonder Woman, Flash, etc.

>>77827671
And it gets new readers.

I really don't get why people got so upset they announced Girl-Thor and A-Force on the view. They were aiming for a demographic that normally doesn't read comics.

Seems like just easy publicity that any business would take.

>>77827740
I'd rather have quality than sales.

The live-action/Marvel Studios shit has rendered all Marvel books unreadable due to their part in the wider agenda

>>77827740
I don't recall Marvel ever having a PR campaign like this. Do you have examples of what they did?

>>77827269
This isn't about DC or Marvel readers, this is about how you get general audience to read a book.
A general audience member would rather pick upo a Flash, Arrow, Batman, Supergirl, or anything that is popular book over trying out something like Prez, Omega Men, or Secret Six, because they are afraid to take a chance with something they know nothing about

>>77827763
Also the creative decisions DC sometimes makes are just mind boggingly. Finch's wife on WW for example. Venditti on Flash or Bunn on Aquaman. They have better access now to indie talent than before and they go for low hanging fruit like this.

>>77827740
well, SHIELD is promoted as a tv tie-in, but it still sells like shit.

But then again, SHIELD is shit, and Flash and Arrow would definitely have a boost if DC used some marketing for them. Without synergy shit.

>>77827269
You can't argue with characterfags. They'll buy shit that makes them rage but they feel loyal to the character.
See X Men and Brevoort saying Uncanny Avengers will make their fans incredibly mad, and watch the sales for that issue go up. See Grayson for people bitching every month very loudly to each other and sometimes the creator yet they won't just stop reading.

>>77827740
>it's what ultimately worked in favor for GOTG

And it's only a formula for short term success, Marvel's current model isn't sustainable in the slightest. Look at how quickly the sales fall away after #1.

>>77827798
Ironman sales have always been absolute shit though

Sub-30,000

>>77827341
Those books played with pre- new52 continuity but most were of terrible quality and they were only two issues long.

>>77827831
How well did the Arrow comic sell?

>>77827763
King on Green Lantern confirmed?

>>77827763
>Wonder Woman
Keep dreaming, the finches sell, care we like or not, the wonder woman "fans" hated Azz run with a burning passion because of her origin and because it made her something more than just perfect female superhero number 206354546

>>77827822
Bunn on Aquaman wasn't a dud, I was actually kind of looking forward to it because of Trevor McCarthy's involvement.

Also Brett Booth was really the problem on Flash moreso than Vendetti.

I think it's total bullshit that he was chased off the book by fans for a book that wasn't even THAT bad.

>>77827763
Should I start with killing virgins to get King on Green Lantern?
>>77827822
At least Bunn is fucking off from Aquaman and will be replaced with Abnett. Hopefully Abnett isn't spread thin with writing.

>>77827788
The sales may not be important for DC/Marvel (though I doubt it), but it is important for the retailers and one of their main sources of income. If the books don't sell, retailers get burned and avoid ordering more from the company or creator down the line. We are seeing this reaction imo with the DCYou.

>>77827831
Geoff Johns on Flash/Rebirth did more for sales than the TV could

>>77827798
I agree. It's sad but true. However, I learned to appreciate some obscure characters like Question, or Ragman thanks to /co/

>>77827847
Most of the tie ins were good people didn't like the main comic.

I can see the Mary Sue headline now.

>THANKS, DC, FOR CANCELLING A SERIES STARRING HOMOSEXUAL CHARACTER

>>77827859
>the finches sell

They really don't. The book is only selling like 3k copies above the Azzarello run.

>>77827790
First thing Marvel does is announce the movie, they then get Bendis immediately on the book, because he tweets to fans a lot and general audiences like him for some stupid reason.
Secondly they omnibus the Abnett run for anyone wanted to buy those trades and make sure to PR the movie while reminding people that the books are out. Boom GOTG is a hit and it's comics follow suit

>>77827839
>See X Men and Brevoort saying Uncanny Avengers will make their fans incredibly mad, and watch the sales for that issue go up
Instead of pirating, people will buy it only to see one scene.

>>77826808
This. DC has done a fantastic job of pushing c-listers and creatig new characters but every poser is busy sucking marvel cock because its trendy. What are your favorites? For me its Prez, All Star Section 8 and Martian Manhunter

>>77827866
Yeah, Veditti gets a lot of hate here, but I've found bot his Flash and GL runs to be mostly average to above average, with just a few really crappy things.

>>77827841
only this year Marvel had two #1 for All-New Hawkeye alone. Sure, they restarted the book because of SW, but it's still a fact that it will be a headache for those who would like to buy back issues.

>>77826889
not only is Prez getting a trade release, it's also getting another 6 issues!

>>77827901
You know Marvel is gonna announce a full gay Iceman solo like two days after news that Midnighter is cancelled.

I don't get it. What was DCYou actually meant to BE and why is it my fault?

>>77827906
the comics aren't a hit though everyone hates them

>>77826963

DC has some dignity. Or maybe they're just bad at advertising. Or maybe they think quality will sell because it's quality, not hype.

>>77827841
I agree, but right now DC needs something to push sales if only slightly to find a more permanent option

>>77827844
Ironman has had questionable teams on the books, some are good some are bad and it kind of hurts itself in this way.
However I am a fan of Ironman personally and I try to read the comics but no one ever seems consistent with Tony's character

>>77827956
They probably won't, because X-Men. Marvel wanted to publish Northstar, but they didn't because mutants, MCU, Fox.

>>77827975
>Or maybe they think quality will sell because it's quality, not hype.
If we were living in decent times, they would.

>>77827559
I bought the fuck outta Secret Wars. Bought so many I've got them sequestered in their own short box. It was the fun of Age of Apocalypse, but company wide. I loved it.

>>77827867
>Hopefully Abnett isn't spread thin with writing.
I hope so too, but I thing he requested to be put on Aquaman, so he most likely has an idea he wants to work with

>>77827957
>What was DCYou actually meant to BE
Books of different tone and genre. Little looser continuity so writers can write what they want without having to worry too much about what others are doing.

>why is it my fault?
If you're pirating it then yeah it's your fault. Or if you complain about Batman taking up a third of DC's output and end up not bothering with anything else, then yeah it's your fault too.

>>77827957
DC You is a page long ad in the back of comics that has short interviews with the creative teams on DC's titles

>>77827264
Dial H underselling was a crime. The concept alone is ripe for storytelling

>>77827918
my favorites are Grayson, Prez. JL3001, and Starfire

>>77828014
Good. No matter what I think about Bunn, if you aren't fan of character and don't want to write him, leave.
If Abnett gives me much needed Arthur on Mera action, I'll be happy anon.

>>77828029

Could a guy that doesn't read comics understand it?

>>77827971
everyone here hates them, and I agree with that sentimen. However I have spoken with many friends of mine that are more general audience and only pick up the occassional comic and for some reason they love Bendis and his GOTG

>>77827987
If DC starts adopting the Marvel approach they'll be burning bridges with the dedicated fans they have now, they should keep doing what they're doing and once the next wave of new titles rolls out, they should open with heavy hitters and spin-offs instead of C-listers.

>>77827903
10/2014: Wonder Woman #34 -- 35,774 (- 48.5%)
10/2014: Wonder Woman #35 -- 35,968 (+ 0.5%)
11/2014: Wonder Woman #36 -- 58,965 (+ 63.9%)
12/2014: Wonder Woman #37 -- 43,066 (- 27.0%)
01/2015: Wonder Woman #38 -- 39,669 (- 7.9%)
02/2015: Wonder Woman #39 -- 42,634 (+ 7.5%)
03/2015: --
04/2015: Wonder Woman #40 -- 45,172 (+ 6.0%)
05/2015: --
06/2015: Wonder Woman #41 -- 45,284 (+ 0.2%)
07/2015: Wonder Woman #42 -- 36,668 (- 19.0%)
08/2015: Wonder Woman #43 -- 39,646 (+ 8.1%)
09/2015: Wonder Woman #44 -- 36,151 (- 8.8%)
10/2015: Wonder Woman #45 -- 33,885 (- 6.3%)

Seriously you guys, it's not true. The Finches are not doing well on Wonder Woman at all, if you actually adjust for the fact that the Finches have the free-order variants that are propping up multiple DC books, then the Finch run is actually selling WORSE than Azzarello's run, a run that was completely divorced from the rest of the universe and all tie-ins/sales goosing tactics.

The Finches are getting the boot soon, I've never been more certain of anything in my life.

>>77828067
That is a good idea, and it would at least keep the fanbase appeased and DC wouldn't be sacrificing their dignity

>>77827975
No self respecting business should think quality is the only important part of a business. Marketing is what can make you sink or swim,

>>77828078
I hope you are right, tripfag i hope you are right

>>77828029
If they bought back fan-submissions for powers, it would've been a top selling book.

>>77828078
>The Finches are getting the boot soon, I've never been more certain of anything in my life.
Snyder wants Wonder Woman so bad but unfortunately he's not woman enough for him to write it without people getting angry at DC for kicking a female writer off.

Besides youtube, twitter, all the news sites and in thier own comics how else should DC advertise? I know the paid for commercials on tv when they launched the new 52

>>77828052
it was book that was meant to be read from beginning to end to fully understand. I think general audiences could understand it but may not have the attention span to connect all the dots

>>77828102
DC does some extremely boneheaded stuff, but it's fairly rare that they'll keep a writer with extremely poor reviews and tepid sales on a book for fairly long.

>>77828078
DC's strategy for placating their A-list artists is so self-destructive. Giving people who weren't proven story tellers writing gigs time after time despite mixed (Kollins or Gleason) or disastrous results (Daniel and Liefeld) just so they stay at DC is just terrible. Not to mention guys like Daniel and Finch or Liefeld aren't very good as artists.

>>77828065
your casual friends don't influence sales that much

>>77828128
If that means that he is off the Bat book, then its fine by me, honestly he would work better with her

>>77828128
I would actually welcome Snyder on Wonder Woman, I may not like him on Batman but I think he could right Wonder Woman with some decency. At least better than anything the Finches ever did

>>77828186
I know my casual friends don't, but it seems to be a regular casual response that I have noticed

>>77828179
I actually like Daniel's Deathstroke. I wouldn't call it disastrous.

>>77826808
I don't know what you're getting at. It's the same as every other reboot/relaunch/rebranding: A few gems surrounded buried under decent to mediocre books people cling to simply because they're "different".

>>77828236
Higgins should have never stopped writing Deathstroke.

>>77828155
I mean seriously, can anyone think of a critically panned comic run where sales were in the toilet that lasted more then a year? I'm struggling here.

>>77828236
I enjoy it too, but it could still be better. Daniels should definitely stay on art though

>>77828155
Eh...
Flash And Wonder Woman need to be changed immediately. Them having three or more arcs with such shitty writers is so baffling.
Now that they have like 2-4 good writers on smaller titles it would be so stupid of them to not let them write a bigger title with shitty reviews.

>>77828179
Seriously, I don't get why anyone would continue letting Tony Daniel write. He's proven he's a pretty poor writer, and he's a good enough artist to devote more time and effort into a bigger title.

Did All New All Different Marvel worked tho? Cause im reading even more DC books now than before, unlike Marvel books wich i just keep droppin.

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>>77828275
Tyler Kirkham is a much better Tony Daniel then Tony Daniel is, frankly.

>>77828308
ANAD variants are working, yes.

Got Iron Man at #1 with almost 280k. with over a 200k drop by issue 2

>>77828243
I think DCYOU could have been better deserved by general audiences if it might have renumbered issues to 1, not a reboot but a jump on point.

>>77828308
a lot of marvelfags are annoyed by marvel as well. I know I am tired of their bullshit. However, Marvel also has Star Wars.

>>77828308
I like Vision and that's about it so far. Looking forward to Moon Knight.

>>77828338
Not relaunching books like Green Arrow was a huge, huge mistake.

>>77828308
The team books look like they're all shit, but there are a grip of solo's I'm interested in.

>>77828340
This is my case. I used to be an exclusive Marvelfag but in the past year I couldn't be fucked to care about any of their books. DCYou was my entry to DC comics and holy shit, I love so much stuff from it. I'm mad I didn't start reading sooner.

I'm also really mad it doesn't sell, all my favorite books will probably get cancelled soon.

>>77826963
That's literally an advertisement showing them off.

>>77828368
I know what you mean, DCYOU Green Arrow has been pretty good and a renumbering would have been nothing but a plus for them

>>77828368
Yeah desu DC should really relaunch some of the b-list books. Green Arrow, Catwoman, and Supergirl come to mind.
Batgirl should've been relaunched and apparently almost was but Doyle said no to it.

>>77828025
I guess I haven't paid attention, but that somewhat makes sense. I had a bunch of DCYou ads show up on my youtube subscriptions, but they didn't seem to actually be telling me anything. Just general 'Ohhh something is coming!' hand waving.

Turns out I've been buying them and not realising. Simply because they looked like half decent books though

>>77828412
I know what you mean. I've read the new Swamp Thing by Soule and Animal Man by Lemire to have a better clue about him. I understand now why /co/ has this meme about DC writers turning to shit when they go to Marvel.

>>77828412
I feel you bro, i used to be an exclusive Marvelfag but got into DC during Final Crisis, i feel bad because i really did enjoy a few Marvel titles like Remender's Venom, Scarlet Spider, Superior Team Up, etc. But now its all so shit, im only reading Carnage, Moon Knight and Silver Surfer (i know Dan Slott is a fag, but its been a fun read, i might read some old Silver Surfer stuff) and old runs like Frank Miller's Daredevil.

>>77827854
God I hope so

If Venditti is not on GL #50 that'd be an extremely sudden departure though, he's been talking like he's still on it

>>77828610
Tom King seems to do great with Vision though, I actually liked his first issue more than I liked the Omega Men one.

>>77828882
Issue #2 might be even better. I've seen the preview, and it feels like a huge disaster coming. I only hope that King won't become marvel exclusive.

Any writer that goes exclusive looses the creativity and swag. It's not a secret that editorial rewrites some of the stuff without writers' knowledge. The guy who wrote Amazing Spider-Man 700.1-700.4 publicly whined about it, and never got work at marvel again.

>>77827859

If you're talking about Azzarello's Greek Gods, they were mighty cool, but his Wonder Woman was perfect female superhero number 206354546.

>>77828155
>>77828271

Scott Lobdell's Teen Titans?

>>77829325
Teen Titans sold fairly decently and consistently iirc.

>>77829325
Well DC doesn't care about Teen Titans that much. Whereas they're letting Wonder Woman, Flash, and Green Lantern (ymmv), i.e. three of their A list books, suffer from mediocrity. If any of those writers stay on it past #50 then I want to know what the fuck DC is thinking.

OP, DC gave fans NOTHING they wanted.

They pandered to the SJW set and it failed.

They deserved it.

Now we are getting the Classic Titans back, Swamp Thing under one of it's God tier writers, AND OG Hal and Lois/Clark back.

DC You should have been the scorch earthing of the Nu52 and the return of all of the Classic Pre-Nu52 DC characters. THAT would have been a sales success.

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>>77829432
>the Classic Pre-Nu52 DC characters
Convergence had the ties ins for that, i guess the original fans don't care

>>77829472

I think a lot of people thought that the event wouldn't change anything. I remember seeing a lot of posts like that during Convergence. Both from people wanting the Pre-Nu52 characters back and from people who didn't the Nu52 gone. People thought the event wouldn't change shit and that it was merely a shitty fanservice.

>>77829432
What are you talking about? DC spat on tumblr's faces. They loved pre-nu52. They hated Slutfire, whitewashing Rise, nu52 Tim Drake and the mess that was Lobdell's teen titans.

Is tumblr your boogeyman for everything?

>>77829580
Rose* erasing her biracial status.

Why am I to blame for DC's continuous shitty marketing?

>>77829580
>They loved pre-nu52
No, they loved their headcanons of pre-nu52, if they read cry of justice or something like identity crisis, i bet it would changer their mindset

>>77829648
How is thier marketing shitty? They do the same things every other company does.

>>77827614
>Yeah but why was interest so low in Convergence to begin with? Events are supposed to do great numbers regardless of how shitty they are, aren't they? Were people really that confused by continuity stuff? Are nostalgiafags an extremely vocal minority that won't put their money where their mouth is?

Convergence was rumored for months to be a "fill in" event, and when it was officially revealed, DC didn't do enough to convince many people otherwise. The fact that it coincided with their initiative of every line having their own standalone plots without crossover (like Justice League ignoring all the status quo changes) only gave more food to the impression that it was a "fill in".

They really should have revamped the event and tied it more strongly to the main universe when those "fill in event" rumors started being taken seriously.

>>77827587

Most DC titles are 2.99 and they have really affordable trades too.

DC just doesn't pander in terms of it's marketing. They're trying to be more inclusive but they're just doing it without the obnoxious marketing that Marvel does.

I love that Midnighter has never been marketed as "GAY CHARACTER BOOK" or Dr Fate isn't "LOOK A MUSLIM AMERICAN!" but... they're kind of not being marketed at all.

Though Dr Fate isn't all that great I really would like to see it last I'm enjoying it and Midnighter as been amazing and it'll be cancelled in no time...

Part of this too is because sites like Tumblr gravitate towards Marvel and the news sites tend to shill Marvel harder than they do DC. Mostly because they need clicks and mocking DC for some reason is the in thing to do even though quality-wise right now I feel like they have better books.

>>77827607

I think that both DC and Marvel should start use variants for posters or poster books more often. There were some Teen Titans Go covers that would make fun posters, I'd love the Grayson Selfie cover as a nice poster, and some of the hip-hop Marvel covers were great.

>>77827754

Events as it stands now are kind of not special anymore and they're just getting in the way. DC has kind of lessened it a bit more recently with just small minor events and maybe a big one every three or so years. Batbooks were worse but that's mostly gone now. Nightwing was derailed non-stop because of events and it really harmed the book. At least Grayson is only being derailed for a single issue for Robin Wars.

Marvel does them just about yearly. Fans are really starting to feel alienated by them and it's showing a bit more as of late.

>>77827760

It's funny because Marvel is so open about how they don't want their fans to be happy...

>>77829823
>>77829529
Continuity fags are cancer. Do they really want constant events with bullshit nothing will ever be the same stories? How can they fall for that over and over again?

>>77829899
Because they forget what Status quo is

>>77827859

But they don't like the Finches either.

No joke Wonder Woman fans don't tend to like anything but the Perez stuff and then they're divisive about Gail's run.

They are easily one of the most difficult to please DC fanbases.

>>77827867

Can based King write every book?

>>77829899
Yes, they do

Also everything must be connected and fall into a nice timeline of when events and crossovers happened.

>>77829796

No they don't.

Marvel's native american character was obnoxiously marketed as a minority. Meanwhile DC just stealth released a book starring a native american hero with almost no marketing at all.

They've done this with just about every last character that could be considered to be created just to pander since Bunker. Well barring the new Batgirl outfit but that felt like it was more the creative team marketing themselves than anything else.

>>77829580

They white washed Rose?

Also Tumblr will always be better because they feel DC killed Tim and Kon's friendship to stop all the "Make them gay!" complaints.

>>77830097
Rose's mother this time around is just Adeline, I think instead of that Cambodian woman Slade fucked

>>77827944

Whoa shit it's getting the second half? When was that announced?

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>/co/ pissed and moaned every day since 2011 about the New 52
>everyone kept screaming for a revert to previous times or at least quality control
>DCYou introduces the most artistically diverse time in DC since the late 80s
>everyone is too busy sucking Marvel cock to care

Can we blame the Jews just once?

>>77830097
They don't need to be obnoxious as marvel but seriously how will anyone know that these characters exist if no one fucking tells them.

>>77830139

I didn't really pay much attention to Rose before I didn't even realize she wasn't a white girl to begin with.

She's just so white looking I feel like this changes nothing...

>>77829899
>Do they really want constant events with bullshit nothing will ever be the same stories? How can they fall for that over and over again?

They want the elements of a shared universe like Marvel did between Civil War and Siege or what DC briefly tried to do with the leadups to Infinite Crisis and with Infinite Crisis.

The other buying trend in comics are the SJWs that want stuff like female-Thor and Spider-Gwen. It's no surprise most people prefer continuity fags.

>>77826808
No, fuck you. If they went the Marvel method and put some effort into their shitty marketing, it would have done great. So far only Babsgirl got the best marketing DC can manage. If they launched the DCYou with headlines like "comicbook nerds are mad robins are minorities!" they would have done better. Or "those silly boys are mad batman is gay!" from shitty sites like themarysue (since they probably would have thought Midnighter was gay batman) and they would have been set.

When reddit is unaware of shit, that's how you know your product is gonna fail.

>>77826808

>All the best books are getting cancelled

Comic fans are scum and deserve fuck all

>>77827341
But Convergence didn't go back to the Pre-FP world

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>>77830315
Forgot my pic.

>>77830315
What does Marvel specifically do to get those attention grabing headlines? Isn't up to the websites to report the way they do?

bloggers just hate DC it's ingrained in them
http://mindlessones.com/2015/11/14/we-are-robin-4/

>>77830402
Literally just make some shit up on Twitter. That's it, that's all you need. People who don't even read comics will do the rest of the work for you.

Why was Batgirl's marketing so damn different from all the other books? Why didn't they learn from that?

>>77830332
but it did, literally the only consistent thing there was that it featured Pre-FP Versions of the characters.

>>77830315
The Marvel Method is constantly shilling, raising prices, and abusing variants. Do you really want to unleash that Monkey Paw anon?

>>77830465
because people did their work for them.

>>77830465
They do anything differently unless you count that cover controversy as marketing

>>77830469
I wouldn't be surprised if it backfired on marvel, and they had to rely solely on Star Wars.

>>77827264

Everything did better than Prez

>>77830465
Because they made a big deal about "those silly nerboys that are mad she isn't like their sexist fantasy" like how Marvel would go about it. I remember they had a live panel or some shit and some faggot asked them why don't they have more stories about girls, and one of the panelists responded with "we do have them, you just aren't looking hard enough because we rather tell stories than make headlines." People were saying shit like how based that was, but now look far their retarded statement got them.

>>77830465

Because that was the creative staff stirring shit up in an interview.

I feel like it and Gotham Academy were just about the only two books to get any form of marketing.

>>77830465
DC"s marketing and social media outreach is consistently shit and they have no messaging discipline. Whenever they manage to do something good like they did with the official blog after Blackest Night they decided to throw it away (and fire the staff involved) and go back to being shit.

>>77830506
That controversy was months after its launch. Batgirl made sure it had a lot of awareness before the book dropped.

>>77830210
Maybe I dunno, actually do some legwork instead of just moaning how there's no PoCs. My friend just showed me the video of these people going around asking people to list 7 black superheroes and it's painfully casual.

>>77827347
>The new 52 was a jumping off point for a lot of old DC fans

Though unlike DCYou the numbers for New 52 were better than before the launch

>>77830628
That's the business' fault.

What company in the world doesn't fucking announce their product to the world? They don't expect their customers to do legwork to get to them.

>>77827587
>the new titles werent promoted at all well.

They had the sneak peaks in the back of convergence issues at no extra cost. If Convergence wasn't piss poor this would have been a great promotion

>>77829860
Now I see why you hate tumblr.

>>77830633
Right Nu52 is kind of the exception. Their other soft reboots have failed. DCYou is just the latest.

>>77830728
>at no extra cost
The Convergence books were $3.99 for a standard length issue with a regular cover.

>>77829899
What is wrong with continuity?

>>77827534
>They really would've been better off just going with their original plan of not publishing comic books for a couple of months.

This is something I don't understand. If they were unable to publish their usual comics how were they able to publish Convergence and others like He-Man?

>>77830540
Thanks to social media, it will last. In a couple months we'll be getting new #1s and they'll be top sellers once again. Rinse and repeat, and Marvel has a system to get out as much money from their battered housewives. It's not about sjws or regular fans, its about milking money from the retarded as fuck resellers and collectors. Don't forget Marvels other business model: rage sells. Just make up some bullshit on twitter or facebook about how those "silly nerdboys" are mad that someone is now gay or a women. It doesn't even need to be legitimate, just toss it out there, and people will run with it. Toss in a few interviews, and your good to go for that easy money.

Marvel has an easy system of making money, and somehow DC still can't figure it out. It's literally right in front of them, and they can't keep up.

>>77830205
No you fucking german

>>77830774
Going off this, can we talk about how DC $2.99 comics are physically superior to Marvel's $3.99 comics?

I've never ripped a DC comic, but that happens often with Marvel.

>>77830628

In my eyes that video does the exact opposite of what it's meant to do...

They ask black people at a comic convention to name black characters and they can't and it's supposed to be "Look? See how few there are!" but to me it comes off more as "People who want representation don't really support shit." I can name quite a lot of black heroes and I'm white.

Now that's not say black people don't read comics but it is no where near at the number people want to pretend it is.

I'm gay and I don't care much about representation much personally but I know people who complain about it non-stop and when I bring up Midnighter they don't even know who he is. When I say it's a DC book I get blown off and they disregard it because Marvel movies make them Marvel fans...

Midnighter's been so good I don't want it to get cancelled...

>>77827683
>At least some retailers are pissy that SW delays caused some of their ANAD books to not sell as well as it could have.

I know the guy who runs my LCS is mad as fuck about it. He's mad at Marvel for extending Secret Wars and then delaying it and he's mad at DC for having a shit return policy and for convergence leading to poor sales of (what he considers) quality books

Running a Comic book store must be awful

>>77830799
The thing about social medias that constantly something else goes viral popular. The actual pop-culture changes quicker. Will it last? Does it really works that well for Marvel? What Marvel is doing is basically kamikaze. They don't base their publishing on strong foundation. There are only so many gimmicks you can pull, before people get desentisized. Even X-fags are becoming indifferent to the Inhumans trolling.

>>77830867
What happened with the secret wars delay? can you explain me that shit pls

>>77830886
Really? Every Inhumans book I still see is loaded with salt. Someone was crying for half the moon girl story time she doesn't count as a inhuman despite the creators saying she was.

Not to mention the nearly one a day squirrel girl threads.

>>77830917
Marvel keeps delaying the main Secret Wars book, probably because the artist is finding it hard to finish on time.

They're having to hold off on a few books due to spoilers, but more importantly, there are readers who aren't buying some ANAD books due to fears of spoilers. So retailers are ordering tons of #1s with the variants, but there are just a fraction of readers actually coming in to buy it. So retailers buying tons of shit and getting less business from it is pissing some of them off.

>>77830886
That's the thing though, as long as marvel keeps pumping out movies and TV shows, they will always dominate social media. It doesn't matter if people get desensitized because there will always be a steady flow of new people who might become interested in comics. Marvel isn't just about comics anymore, it's about spreading its brand name.

>Even X-fags are becoming indifferent to the Inhumans trolling.
X-fags are the worst to compare to because they suffer from Stockholm syndrome. It doesn't matter what marvel does because it will continue to sell. Look at all the bitching Bendis got, and yet none of his X-books sold under 35k.

>>77830995
I ignore SG girls so I don't see. But with Inhumans is maybe one person samefagging

>>77831014
Oh I see. That's a bad way to screw your retailers.

>>77831015
I feel bad for them. But I wonder how it's going to be next month with sales charts.

>>77831051
Bendis is such a cancer to the industry.

>>77828947
>. I only hope that King won't become marvel exclusive.

I ill be very surprised if Omega Men didn't get 12 issues just to stop this from happening. Remember how he said the ending would have a big impact in the universe? DC will be giving him a big book after this

>>77830774
Can I blame Didio for that too?

>>77829432
>DC You should have been the scorch earthing of the Nu52 and the return of all of the Classic Pre-Nu52 DC characters. THAT would have been a sales success.

No it would have killed DC

>>77831127
Why? What would be wrong with having two lines? One is nu52 and the other is pre reset

>>77831165
Did you see how Superman/Lois is doing?

>>77831191
No. Educate me.

>>77831231
> 64 Superman Lois and Clark 1 $3.99 DC 35,009

Compared to
>61 Action Comics 45 $3.99 DC 36,560
>49 Superman 45 $3.99 DC 42,693

>>77831277
What about Telos? is selling well or just like Louis and Clark?

>>77831349
Titans Hunt and Telos are selling worse.

>>77831349
Worse, because there at least exists some people who care about pre-flashpoint Clark and Lois
>115 Telos 1 $2.99 DC 20,126

Titans Hunt #1 did outsell Teen Titans

>>77831375
Is someone besides me thinking that DC will go to bankrupt?

>>77831397
>20k
Klarion is the only other book I can think of that debuted that poorly

>>77830469
>but it did, literally the only consistent thing there was that it featured Pre-FP Versions of the characters.

The main event featured mostly the Earth-2 crew for 2/3s of the event, and due to the solicits it was obvious that the pre-Flashpoint characters wouldn't immediately get on-goings following it, which killed a lot of the excitement about their appearances.

>>77831397
I tought nostalfags would be happy about having at least something from the old universe and that the sales would be a lot better than that.

>>77831440
Forever People was down there, maybe Movement/Green Team

>>77831475
They are burnt out. Nothing DC does will bring them back. The universe they cared about is dead.

>>77831405

Nah Batwank is keeping them going. They still have a good quarter of the total market. They have some guaranteed sellers coming out lately because of the Bat. Eternal will do just under 200,000 a month, TDK III will sell an absolute fuck load and at a huge price, then there's Harleys new book

>>77831405

Nah DC has implied that tradesales are really strong. We just can't get good sales data on those.

I can from recent experience I went to Books A Million and they told me they couldn't keep Grayson in stock because it kept selling, and I went to a Barnes and Noble last week that only had one copy and this week they had five and that's rare for even Batman books so... I can assume Grayson is selling really well in my area..

>>77830886
>X-fags are becoming indifferent to the Inhumans
Anon pls, X-fags are salty as hell. Just look up every story time for uncanny inhumans.

>>77830886
>Even X-fags are becoming indifferent to the Inhumans trolling.
Have you ever tried looking at the X Men forum at CBR because those people are made of salt.

>>77831637
>CBR
not even once. it's when the shills dwell

>>77831586

We always sell out DC trades faster than our Marvel stuff. Marvels trade prices are obscene and they never do any cool shit like DC do with the masks

>>77831542
But Convergence change things! I know this are only wet dreams but I wanted to see at least some more comcs starting the original JSA, Infinity Inc., Graysin as Batman and what happened to the first Crime Syndicate after Convergence change the status.

>>77831542
I pity those people.

>>77831702

The original JSA had a great final story that nobody read

One last time then. Let's make it count

>>77831824
I read it while listening Tool. It was fucking epic.

>>77831824
>spoiler
;_;

>>77831970
If you haven't read it yet then leave this thread and go to some freaking comic web and read it.

Oh man, as a new comic reader who decided to jump on Flash after watching the show, I can't believe that DC allows such a terrible writing team to persist.

Surely they are missing a trick here by running Flash into the ground. I am now reading silver age stuff, but most people will just give up and move on.

>>77830782
>how were they able to publish Convergence and others like He-Man

I believe they used guys from outside DC to coordinate mostly Indie and ex-Marvel people. As for He-Man and some of the others those I believe are done from other branches of DCE that were not being moved.

>>77832446

Flash, Supergirl, and Green Arrow should all have A-tier writing teams given that they're going to be gateway series right now. Supergirl doesn't even have a book.

>>77832536
Yeah, and I expected they would coming from the shows to the comics. It just seems like such a logical thing to do.

Instead the Flash is essentially unreadable and from what I understand the current writing team is pissing over all past Flash characters.

>>77832536
but Green Arrow does have an A-Tier Writing Team now. EMIKO IS CUTE. CUTE.

>>77831191
A "Post Crisis Superman book" would have been a far better idea than "post crisis superman hanging out in the New 52"

>>77832778
It works as a critic to the direction DC took after the reset.

>>77832679
>post convergence Green Arrow
>A-tier

Eh...

>>77827578
The two longboxes of the main title sitting in the back of the store I work at say otherwise, let's not even get into the bulk of the tie-ins.

>>77831075
To Marvel, it's a great way. They hate retailers with a passion and relish any opportunity to shit on them, mostly because they are all terrible people and because they can. Marvel is still the number one publisher, so stores can't afford to cut them out, nine times out of ten they don't even bother telling retailers what the events are until you can't change your order.

>>77834181
>nine times out of ten they don't even bother telling retailers what the events are until you can't change your order.
Is this real

>>77826808
Almost all of it sucked though. It was an attempt to sell to hipsters and webcomic fags.

>>77834340
Go to any comic book store and ask them what Marvel tells them about events. My boss has had a store for 30 years, and he learned what Secret Wars was going to be when the rest of us did. All they ever fucking say is that it will make shit taste like steak and that you should take out a mortgage to fulfill the orders it deserves. Their panel at last year's ComicsPro was ten minutes long, DC's ran over an hour.

>>77826884
I was wondering what the deal was. I can't find any of my books lately.

>>77826884
That's not necessarily true. The books sold like ass, with Starfire and Midnighter being the only ones to make waves, at least at my store. When we finally did get to return the unsold comic covers, the stack was something like nine inches tall. Granted, more than a little of that was JLA's gazillion covers, but at the end of the day the lowest DCYou return count was 33 out of 60 for Robin: Son of Batman, and the highest was Dr. Fate at 54.

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>>77831475
>I tought nostalfags would be happy about having at least something from the old universe

Let me ask you a question.

If your whole house was burned down and you could save the left sock of your least favorite pair, would you be happy?

Would you?

DC has, in every way that matters, destroyed all that the pre-FP crowd was attached to and had a stake in. It doesn't even fucking matter if some individual bits and pieces were salvaged later. The whole is still gone. Only thing that could potentially bring any of them back would be a reverse-reboot that erases the current universe and brings the previous one back - and frankly I think it's too late for even that. The panic button should have been pressed within 12 months.

I'm one of them. DC hasn't printed a comic that interested me since Nu52 happened. There are vaguely familiar names and shapes running around, but they are all mutants and ghosts, pale shadows of a better era that I remember less and less of each day. They have nothing on offer for me, so that's what I pay them.