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My /tv/ thread died a painful death so let's try it here.

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Thread replies: 63
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My /tv/ thread died a painful death so let's try it here.

Can we talk about Batman Begins- how the script is so extremely good, how Nolan managed to make such a coherent movie, and how BB is a geniunely powerful work of art.

This film is an order of magnitude better than any other blockbuster ever made, insofar as actually having a vision that was clear throughout the movie, and was not sacrificed on the alter of mass appeal.

>all this... It's not me. Inside I am... I am *more*.
>>
>I won't kill you, but I don't have to save you.

This line alone knocks it down a star for sheer clunkiness.
>>
why is /co/ so useless
>>
>>77823793
The best of the trilogy for sure but >>77823849
>>
>>77824304
Fuck off /tv/fag we already have an over saturation of /tv/shit we dont need to talk about a film that is a poor man's Batman Year One, where Nolan completely changed the motivation of Batman to be about his OC donut steel Rachel Dawes instead of his dead parents.
I enjoy BB but it's not worth talking about for the 50th time here
>>
>>77824440
>poor man's Batman Year One
It's better than year one.

>Nolan completely changed the motivation of Batman to be about his OC donut steel Rachel Dawes instead of his dead parents.
didntwatchlol
>>
>>77824440
>for the 50th time here
But this one is never talked about here. you're thinking about the other one
>>
>>77824491
>It's better than year one.

You wish.
>>
>>77824304
most of the kids are still in class
>>
>>77823793

I wasn't aware that you could shill for a decade-old movie, but somehow OP managed to do it.
>>
>>77824551
Why would I wish that?

I've read Year One and I've seen BB.
BB is better.
>>
>>77824565
>nothing can be good
>ever
>everything ever is only there to be ridiculed
*shits respectfully in your direction*
>>
>>77824530
That's why it's only the 50th as opposed to the 5000th.
>>
>>77823793

Would you say that it managed to save the Batman film franchise after the disaster that was Batman & Robin?
>>
>>77824596

Saying you think something is good is one thing. Rolling in and gushing about it like a 40 year old soccer mom chomping at the bit to suck Justin Bieber's cock backstage is clear evidence of either serious mental retardation, maximum twattage, or poor baitsmanship, and all three of those things are deserving of every ounce of ridicule they get.

Ergo, I submit that you should scurry off to whatever back alley you crawled out of and cram a bunch of dicks down your gullet with the intent of choking on them.

About ten or fifteen dicks ought to do it.
>>
>>77824768
I wish you tryhard faggots would fucking kill yourselves already
>>
>>77824634
Yes, film wise
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>>77824768
lol fellate a gun
>>
>>77823793
Piss off and take your thread back to /tv/.
>>
>>77823793
Not muh bateman
Not muh Ras
Not muh alfred
>>
>>77824362
>>The best of the trilogy for sure
really? you'd take BB over TDK?
>>
>>77825754
yes
>>
BB was the prefect blend between the comic/campyness of Raimis Spider-Man and Nolans future TDK-style
>>
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>>77823793

I loved Cillian Murphy's Scarecrow.
>>
Not only it was the best Batman movie but it was the best origin on the screen.

That frozen lake is probably my favourite scene of all time, it great captures the Batman's story. Ra's is a great villain.

I don't have to save you is probably the stupidest thing ever but I'll let it pass.

>>77825754
>BB
Captures Batman wonderfully, characters are very alike from the comic material, good balance of fun and seriousness, Batman doing actual detective work and fights with mobs. Great for people who knows what ''Batman'' is.

>TDK
Average crime movie with Batman and Nolan and social commentary unfunny Joker. Ledger's performance was great but it's way too overrated. Great for people who don't know Batman.
>>
It was OK for the time it came out, when contemporaries included Spiderman and X-men. Sure as shit doesn't hold up now.
>>
>>77827274
It's the best in the trilogy though
>>
>>77827274
godawful bait
why waist the bandwidth?
>>
>>77827309
I agree it's the best of the trilogy. That's not saying much. The only thing that makes it superior is

1. It's actually about Batman, instead of Batman being some prop
2. It has an actual plot.

The first half or two thirds of the film is the good end, but the ending falls off. It seems like Nolan has no idea what to actually do with Batman once he's got him.

The only good villain is the mob-boss Falconi, and he gets dispatched in the second act as Batman is established. Scarecrow and Qui-Gonn, I mean Ra's al-Ghul are just phoned in. Again it's like Nolan only had Batman's origin story in mind, and everything else was just cribbed on the fly from Adam West's Batman, Miller's The Dark Knight Returns, and the Saw franchise.
>>
>>77824866
christ

>>77823793
We could if any of those things are true, but none of them are. It's not achingly bad like the follow up's frying-pan-to-the-face "REMEMBER WHAT THEY CALLED ME BEHIND MY BACK WHEN I WAS WITH INTERNAL AFFAIRS" style of reference, but instead it goes with this pseudo-Bond structure - the threat is established, the Q and his convenient weapons cache discovered, Q and Bondman have a moment explaining the gadgets - that Nolan slavishly stuck to throughout the series.

It's not very good at all, it's just trying to be as generic an action movie as it can - in fact, it's probably trying to fall somewhere between Bourne and Bond, with maybe some Mission Impossible in there as well.

Because those sell tickets, and Batman doesn't. Aside from Batman 89 and Forever, it really wasn't above-average in gross terms, and that is literally all Nolan cared about when he got the gig. Yes, it's a big name brand, but that was by no means an easy sell, and you could easily take out about ten or fifteen minutes of Bat-references to make it a generic action movie.

It didn't even do that well. Aside from Batman & Robin it's the worst-performing Batman movie of them all, below even Batman Returns (which made an equivalent gross but cost about a third less to make). It's extremely boring and far too in love with itself to tell the adequate story well and instead relies on hammy overperformances from the leads (except, curiously, Gary Oldman, who seems to have taken it seriously) to get attention when the gadget crap and people talking about the gadget crap isn't on screen.

At this stage it's most notable as a means of looking at what a timid little thing noted cultist Katie Holmes was even then, and marking how it seems like she and other Scientologists seem to prefer roles in movies that portray psychiatrists as evil. Like the upcoming Shitfest Squad.

It really hasn't stood up to even 10 years.
>>
>>77828062
yo'ur an idiot and this
>It really hasn't stood up to even 10 years
means absolutely nothing. Movies are definitely not getting better as time marches on, ESPECIALLY cape movies.

also, sikiätree is a scam. Please go be jewish somewhere else.
>>
>>77823849
One of my only two complaints about the movie.

The other being the Waynes not having gone to see the Mask of Zorro the night they get shot.
>>
>>77828274
>means absolutely nothing. Movies are definitely not getting better as time marches on, ESPECIALLY cape movies.
That's not what the phrase implies you dumb fuck. It means its actual quality doesn't outlive the perception of its quality generated by whatever hype happens to be around it.
>>
>>77828917
>backpedaling
>moving the goalposts

try for a hat trick?
>>
>>77828274
fucking scientologist cunt
>>
>>77828952
Are you just pulling words out of a hat? Is English even your first language?
>>
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>>77824577
>>
>>77829003
>Ad Hominem
We did it reddit!
>>
GOD DAMN I LOVE RAPING WOMEN!
>>
>>77823793

The script and screenplay are amazing but the pacing is so fucking terrible. Every single scene in the movie seems like it's a direct lead in to the next. Yeah normally that's how it WORKS DUH but not in this case. Its like, theres a short scene where someone says something, and then what they're talking about is the next short scene. Like every fucking scene is the Maitre D at a restaurant waiting to seat the next incoming scene, hand motion and all. It doesn't help that the nearly omnipresent soundtrack is playing through the entire thing like in Beverly Hills Cop.
>>
>>77823793
>Not even /tv/ wants these threads anymore.
We have /trash/ now. Try there.
>>
>>77829664
lol m8 my /tv/ thread got over 100 replies.

They were all baneposts.

>>77829572
But the flashbacks are reslly well integrated and Jemes Newton Howard is GOAT.
>>
>>77829698
>lol m8 my /tv/ thread got over 100 replies.
>They were all baneposts.
So you got what you deserved.
>>
>>77829811
Have a (You). (You) deserve it.
>>
>taking about BB when TDK exists
>>
>>77829698

The few flashbacks there are, they just appear like they're a normal scene, which isn't inherently wrong but it ends up skewing the timestream. Because Nolan did it in Memento I'm sure he thought it should work here, but what ends up happening is it just keeps going back in time more and more then just ends up in the present again and you think its gone back again. The scenes themselves are great, the stream of consciousness is great, but the flow of time and also the transitions are really poor.

And yeah, JNH and Zimmer are spectacular but the choice to play the theme repetitively was poor.
>>
>>77828787
That used to bother me because "not muh comics," but then I became cool with it. Especially after I learnt the reason why.

Nolan specifically made his world one without superheroes, not just because it was "realistic," but because of the implications on Batman's motivations. He wanted the idea of dressing up and going out to fight crime to be a totally original idea Bruce had, not some pattern that he just happened to follow. So, not only are there no real superheroes like Superman or Wonder Woman, there are no fictional ones that he's emulating. This is, like, the first time in his universe that the idea of doing something like that was even a thing. It's unprecedented.

That kind of attention to the very specifics of the fictional world they are making impresses me. It kind of stands in contrast to, say, Man of Steel, where the last scene is young Clark wearing a towel as a cape and pretending to be... who the fuck knows, it makes no sense.
>>
>>77824577
>Why would I wish that?

I laughed too hard at this.

Anyway, I love both Begins and YO, but it's hard to compare them because they are really different stories. BB borrows from YO, but it's not really a translation of it. It just borrows elements of Batman's creation from various comics, but all the stuff in between makes it a different narrative.

Plus, BB is a Bruce Wayne story, whereas YO is a Jim Gordon story.
>>
>>77824768
>It's okay to like things so long as you like them in just the way I think you should like them, and no more

>>77827639
>[BB] cribbed ...from Adam West's Batman... and Saw the franchise

W--wut

I don't really mind that The Scarecrow wasn't really fleshed out. Not every character needs to be a rounded character. Sometimes characters that simply fulfill plot requirements are fine, depending on the focus of the story. I think it's a myth that any character that isn't 100% rounded and deep detracts from the story.

Like, Scarecrow is just a corrupt bad guy who uses his position in the justice system for gain, and thematically, he reflects the idea of fear that is important to the Wayne character, making him a foil. And he's cool and entertaining to watch. That's good enough for me.

If it were a different sort of story, I might demand a more rounded Scarecrow. For the sort of story it was, this Scarecrow was fine.
>>
>>77831767
The idea of Bruce being the first superhero in his universe is a worthy notion to follow, but it's kind of ruined by the fact that when you get right down to it he's only ever a superhero for personal, selfish reasons. Altruism is an inherent facet of not only Batman but heroes in general and the Nolan trilogy lacks that progressively more as it goes on.

> It kind of stands in contrast to, say, Man of Steel, where the last scene is young Clark wearing a towel as a cape and pretending to be... who the fuck knows
He's not pretending to be anyone. He's wearing a cape as a child because his Kryptonian genetics compel him to.
>>
>>77832143
I don't think he's Batman for selfish reasons in the movie. Like, he originally just wanted revenge on Chill and Falcone, but he eventually came to see that justice is distinct from revenge. He wasn't even mad at Chill anymore. He wanted to end the injustice conditions that created Chill and harm the city. This is what ends up separating him from Ra's in the first movie.

By the time the second film rolls around, he doesn't even wanna be Batman anymore. He does it out of obligation. He would much rather be a normal person with a happy life and allow Gotham to have a legitimate law bringer, but he feels that he can't just stop until it is right to do so.

Even when he gives up being Batman, he does it because he feels that what Gotham needs from him (for him to step down and play the villain and allow the memory of Dent to be Gotham's beacon), not because it's what he wants. And he puts the suit back on as soon as he believes that Gotham needs him again.

>He's not pretending to be anyone. He's wearing a cape as a child because his Kryptonian genetics compel him to.

He was torn between his heritage and the demands on Earth. His genes told him, "wear the towel." Pa Kent told him, "stop doing that, Clark. Now I have to wash it again. The world isn't ready for me to have to wash it again."
>>
NIGGERS ARE PEOPLE TOO
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>>77834214
this
>>
>>77835167
this
>>
>>77834214
>>77835167
>>77835540
These
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>>77834214
But the only one in the movie is a god.
>>
>>77835570
this
>>
Fuck the haters, op. This was the best Batman movie ever. The first half was rock solid, the second half was a bit spotty, but overall it was very well written.
>>
Scarecrow is completely forced, the middle act of the movie is boring and aimless, the love interest doesn't belong in the movie, and the climax with Ra's is fucking garbage.

But the choreography is miles better than the sequels, Neeson, Bale, Cain, Oldman and whatisname who played Scarecrow were perfectly cast, and the script isn't as reliant on shitty "quote worthy" lines as TDK.

>>77824491
>better than Year One

Come the fuck on.
>>
>>77825754
Contrarians like it because it's the least popular. It's an extremely safe by-the-numbers superhero movie.
>>
>>77836855
>>77836917
MCÜCKS DETECTED
>>
>>77836984
4U xD
>>
>>77837007
lol gud 1
Thread posts: 63
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