What made them so good, /co/?

Consistent camp. Even the dramatic scenes were played with the right kind of light touch so the tone never wavered.

Also the villains were 100% based except for Venom.

pizza time

Nostalgia.

>>77810432
100% this. I never really liked them, and they still aren't great. still not as bad as the newer stuff granted.

>them so good
>implying 3 was anything but one of the most monumental superhero trainwrecks of my existence

Effects were advanced enough
Serious but not too serious
Accurate to the source but not too accurate
"realistic" but not too realistic
Quippy but only because it's Spider-Man
Perfect JJJ casting

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>>77810275
JJJ

I liked Toby Maguire as Spider-Man personally. Sometimes, I use his voice for the comics.

>>77810489
I liked it

>>77810275
Raimi gave a shit about Spider-Man

>>77810571
best one ever, no contest

Novelty and Richard Donner.

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Good balance of seriousness and comic book cheese.

>>77810469
I actually love them, and even I agree that it's nostalgia.

>still not as bad as the newer stuff granted.
Agreed.

>>77810275
it wasnt constantly serious, but it was serious about making a good movie and having a lot of fun with it.

>>77810636
He wasnt ready for that tree

>>77810581
see to me peter and harry shouldve switched actors, at least in terms of looks
throughout the first movie tobey couldnt get that fucking ducksmile off of his face, and it ruined it.
but if i had never heard of spider-man before i probably would have felt like these were fantastic movies with only a few minor flaws, namely the utter lack of communication in the 3rd movie.
Seriously peter is a science nerd for a reason: it speaks to his fans. they identify with that. Which is why in the comics and the animated series we always get these interesting talks where peter goes to dr. connors about the symbiote or whatever other scifi thing is happening to him lately.. and slowly susses it out. In the movie? he snubs connors' call (a very interesting call! tying it in with the chondritic meteors was fucking delicious) and talks about the suit to nobody, especially not MJ. MJ in turn doesnt try to tell peter about the blackmail situation, and even if she did he wasnt listening. it was a big annoying pile of not-talking more suitable for a sitcom farce

The director, the cast.

I think the films felt big. Even though the overall scope was small, the music was bombastic, there were a shit ton of extras and people involved, and it made New York feel large. The films felt large.

It's actually something that bugs me about the MCU of late. We have such a disconnect with the common civilian that the heroes' mission tends to feel lost among the battles. Spider-Man had the human element in spades.

>>77810275
Sam Raimi is a faggot. 1 and 2 were good but he didn't even try with 3. He hated the symbiote stuff and didn't even try to keep the tone as it should have been which was dark. He hated Venom so he really didn't give a shit about Eddie Brock's development to Venom. He made Peter's symbiote period into a joke. All because he wanted a fucking Sandman movie. Except in order to make Sandman relevant he made him Uncle Ben's killer. If you have to retroactively make a villain into the perpetrator of the biggest tragedy in Peter Parker's life in order to make him relevant maybe you should rethink that villain taking center stage. The sad part is he could have done a great job on a horror influenced symbiote/Venom storyline. Look at Evil fucking Dead.

>>77810876
>it made New York feel large. The films felt large.
I agree with this.

>>77810978
>Look at Evil fucking Dead.
Fuck, now I want a Venom mask that looks like a hairless, ink-black deadite.

>>77810793
I dont know why Im cracking up right now.

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>>77811040
Imagine a symbiote version of this, anon.

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>>77811102
Instead we got pic related and Venom acted more like Carnage during battle with all the hisses and shrieks. Fucking worthless.

>>77810841
Suprise! 3 was a shit movie

>>77810275
They had very little competition.

>>77810275
They are good movies but Tobey's acting isn't good... and not in a "Younger Peter's supposed to be a bit dorky in 1 to 1 interaction" way, just a wooden acting way.

>>77811128
Symbiote Spidey and Venom would never have worked in a movie, even if Raimi had giving a fuck, and will never work. There's too much "something from nothing" logic going on with the suit (especially with Venom) and a lot of internal struggle that can be narrated and demonstrated in a comic, but not a movie. It just wouldn't turn out well in a medium that's all show and no tell.

>>77810571
>"Sir, your wife called, she says she lost the checkbook"
>"THANKS FOR THE GOOD NEWS!"

>>77810275
A great director who understands that comics are good stupid fun and that a movie adaptation of a comic needs to be good stupid fun above all else. As soon as you start to take superheroes too seriously, you've got a piece of shit on your hands, no matter what the medium.

>>77810347
IMPRESSIVE

>>77813189
>As soon as you start to take superheroes too seriously, you've got a piece of shit on your hands, no matter what the medium.
Don't agree with that.
Watchmen is a good example of that, even if it's a meta showcase of how fucked up the idea of superheroes is in the first place.
There are hundreds of angles you could take to approach any given subject matter, there is not single right approach to any given material.
That's why you need a director in any given film or drama. They give you the interpretation of the material.

>>77810275
Nostalgia goggles. They aged like milk.

>>77810275
>pick up super hero outfit
>audience starts clapping

>>77810275
only good things in the whole trilogy was the casting for Norman and JJJ. Everything else was terrible

>>77811555
>MCU
>Peter acquires symbiote when he's in space during Infinity War.
>Spidey movie after has him getting rid of it
>movie after that is Venom

Not that hard, anon.

>>77814135
>Watchmen
>Serious

charm

ARE YOU IN, OR ARE YOU OUT?

>>77814159
I watched them last week. That's not true at all.
Raimi Spiderman I was a good film, though the really great film he made is the second one with Alfred Molina as Doc Ock. The third one is terrible. You can see that he tried to work with what he had, but putting green goblin 2, sandman, venom, his relationship with mj and harry osbourn too all into one movie was flat out too much. Should have picked one villain and one personal struggle imo. Guess the studio wanted more.

The first amazing spiderman is truer to the comicbook peter parker in a lot of ways, and dr connors does get proper characterization too. Not a bad film.
The second one was a little inconsequential in a lot of things, electro was a weak villain, though the concept wasn't bad and the green goblin that showed up for the last 5 minutes would have been infinitely more interesting as villain. They already made the same mistake they made in Raimi's 3 in the Amazing Spidey 2.

>>77814280
Yeah. It's satire. Just because something is not obviously super grimdark doesn't mean it can't deal with serious topics.

>>77811555
>a lot of internal struggle that can be narrated and demonstrated in a comic, but not a movie
stop making excuses. It's a shitty director that can't communicate with non-verbal language

>>77814259
>movie after has him getting rid of it
can we have him enjoying the suit and learning to use the symbiotes abilities, then blaming it when it has troubles distinguishing between what he wants to do and what he intends to do?
>murderously pissed at someone. Goes to web them. Symbiote instead strikes with a bladed tentacle and stabs the guy in the kidney

>>77814345
OUT AM I?

>>77810432
This and
>>77810469
this

>>77810432
This. When ASM was being made all /co/ could talk about was how bad the Raimi movies were.

>>77810275
Nostalgia. They were outdated when they came out but it's what people this generation grew up and remember, and ASM and MCU Spidey is met with universal groaning since it's not what people have nostalgia over.

>>77814535
>can we have him enjoying

Spider-Man in film having a good time or being respectful to the source material? PFFFT.

>>77810275
JK Simmons.

>>77810978
Blame the studio execs - original plan for SM3 was to focus almost exclusively on Sandman and Harry as the main antagonists of the film, with Peter's personal struggle over his desire for revenge, his desire to move on, and his desire to mend his relationship with Harry taking the spotlight.

Studio was like NO WAY! NOBODY CARES ABOUT THAT SHIT! THE KIDS WANT VENOM! PUT VENOM IN IT! MAKE HIM THE FOCUS! WE'LL MAKE MILLIONS!

>>77816593
There's more to it. Sam Raimi credits fault to himself that he didn't make it more condensed like Spider-Man 2. So even without the execs meddling, he fucked up on his own part, the movie would have still been wonky

>>77814159
>They aged like milk.
How does this complaint fucking work for movies? I understand that complaint in games because there are both aesthetic and gameplay advancements that eventually set a new standard. But in movies?

>>77816593
>original plan for SM3 was to focus almost exclusively on Sandman and Harry

If the original plot was still "Hey, that guy you killed thinking it was Uncle Ben's killer? Psyche, it was really THIS guy!" then it still would have left a bad taste in my mouth.

>>77810275
They were stupid as all hell, but they actually embraced the stupidity.

On that note, while Spider-Man 3 is still shit, the scene where he's dancing in public does not deserve the hate it gets. That scene is goddamned hilarious.

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>>77814187
I used to tell europoors to fuck of with their americlaps shit, but then in there was a cost guard trailer before Ant-Man and people started clapping. And after a trip they started clapping when we landed back in America

>>77814536
>>77814345
IT'S YOU GOBBY, YOU'RE OUT. OUTTA YOUR MIND!

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>>77810793

>we will never get a venom or a carnage movie

What the fuck?

How fucking hard can it be?

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>>77810275
>>77810793

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>>77817430
harder than you might think.
Telekinesis and laser beams are easy. Shapeshifting goop is much harder to look good.

Then again, Terminator 2 came out over a decade ago. So surely some advancements have been made. Just gotta find the right SFX guys and give them all your money

They embraced the inherent cheesiness of classic Spidey.
I wouldn't call the movies good, more like passable, which is better than ASM

>>77810841
We all know topher grace should have been Pete.

>>77817747
they tried to be cheesy but were just cringey most of the time. Norman was cheesy but no one else was.

>>77810275
Nipples and someone actually trying to make a spiderman that sorta kinda doesn't suck.

In retrospect, they were horribly cast, wasted dafoe as green goblin, doc ock was a faggot and it was just...people being pleased with a mediocre product all around.
Kind of like the first X-men movie.
Blade...till norton's hulk and downey's ironman was the only truly entertaining and well made marvel movie you could get. .

>>77817804
They really were the best cape films could get for their time, but they've been long since surpassed by others. Not the TASMs of course so they're just kind of the best ones by default, but I'm waiting for MCU to blow them out of the water.

>>77811555
Not to mention Brock's character is as shallow as a puddle.

>>77817946
He was about as deep as he was in the 90's cartoon.
Maybe even less deep.

>>77815740
>they were outdated when they came out
How so?

>>77817960
Im saying Brock ingeneral, not just the movie one

>>77817991
>There are people that genuinely prefer Eddie Venom to early Flash Venom
I will never understand why.

>>77816798
There is also progress in movie-making, especially CGI, and conventions like dialogue change too.

>>77817788
Are you kidding? JJJ, Ock, Uncle Ben, Harry and even Peter were plenty cheesy. Fuck even the new York populace was cheesy.

>>77810817
Dude.

Nice.

>>77818000
Brock Venom is an uninteresting loser. But making Flash Venom missed the point of both Flash and Venom, imo.

To me it'll always be the fact that it was around the time people starting trying to make good superhero movies.

(Most of it) was about being a hero than retarded relationship drama.

The retarded relationship drama that was there was at least generic / hilarious, in TASM it was kind of cringy

>>77817960
At least 90's cartoon Venom managed to be creepy and scary.
Movie venom managed to be an annoying fuccboi that infuriated me to no end.

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>>77818046
>There is also progress in movie-making, especially CGI
The CGI still hold up very well if you ask me

>dialogue change too
Which doesn't matter too much for this film because it's amazingly camp. It sounded goofy the first time around and it was still great.

>>77816831
Maybe, but the whole point is that the ideas of the movie could have been better developed and expanded on instead of everything being one big massive clusterfuck.

Same problem they made with ASM2 - too much stuff, not enough time to focus on any of it.

>>77810275
They weren't.
I was a bit disappointed by the first one. The second was good.

>>77810565
>"realistic" but not too realistic
I always thought that it felt artificial. Everything looked like it was a part of the stage set, nothing felt real.
And the special effects weren't that good either.

>>77818717
>The CGI still hold up very well if you ask me

2's more than 1's. And I can think of some pretty bad moments in 2, like when Spidey's mouth is shown to visibly move in the mask when it doesn't when it's the real actor.
>>77819452
ASM2 wanted to make their cinematic universe now instead of letting it build up over time. Hell the Sinister Six wasn't that bad on an idea to base a "universe" around, problem is they didn't let the villains build up.

Also I was really surprised they didn't make Peter's parents create the Venom suit is they wanted Venom that badly.

>>77810489
3 is a trainwreck, but it's a different sort of trainwreck than ASM 2.

3 had good elements, moments, etc. mixed in with the baffling, bad ones. ASM 2 was just several different kinds of shit.

>>77821561

3 at least has some Sam Raimi weirdness in it.

ASM2 is like having a seizure. It feels like one of those anime recap that tires condense an entire season of TV into like 3 hours, it just keeps jumping to different scenes with different tones with zero rhyme or reason.

Also for a website that loves opening plane scenes so much, I'm really surprised that more people don't shitpost about how fucking terrible ASM2's one is.

>>77816593
No. Blame Avi Arad. Its 100% this faggots fault. There is a reason Marvel told him to fuck off and demanded Sony kick him from the Spider-Man movies.

>>77811128
...when did Carnage ever hiss or shriek? You might want to actually read a comic with Carnage in it. Otherwise you just end up outting yourself as a filthy casual, like this.

>>77814535
>every interpretation of the Symbiote is the 90s cartoon version

Read a good damn Venom comic. Fuck.

>>77818061
There was fucking nothing cheesy about Ock. Heck. He, himself, isn't even a villain. He gets body jacked by mechanical tentacles. They do every act in the movie. A complete and utter bastardization of the character.

>>77817738
>Then again, Terminator 2 came out over a decade ago

Anon...

Its been 24 years...

>>77818717
>There is also progress in movie-making, especially CGI
>The CGI still hold up very well if you ask me

It helps that there wasnt much to begin with, since Sam Raimi fucking loves practical.

Okay, I'm going to say this and eveyone is going to say it's pasta or bullshit but here goes:
The Raimi Spider-man movies are made for casuals. They rely on cultural osmosis and what people "know" about Spider-man rather than what he was ever actually like.

That's why he's such a turbo sperg spaghetti lord. Because everyone KNOWS Peter was a bullied nerd. But in the actual comics even back in his youth he had friends, dated like five different women, and his relationship with Flash was more a back and forth sniping at each other.
Everyone KNOWS the power/responsibility speech. Even though the Raimi version is more of a paraphrase than any other.
Casuals (namely those raised on the 90s cartoon), they KNOW his true love is Mary Jane (Gwen who?) and his nemeses are Green Goblin, Doc Ock, and Venom.

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>>77810275

>>77822221
you shut your whore mouth

>>77817804
>wasted dafoe as green goblin
>wasted best cast choice as biggest villain

>>77818644
>(Most of it) was about being a hero than retarded relationship drama.
No it wasn't. Peter/MJ and Peter/Aunt May is just as in your face as Barry/Iris and Barry/Daddies

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>>77810275

The first two Spider-Man movies actually stuck to something resembling lore. How very dare they, how will mainstream fans relate to that, it's like they were catering to Spidey fans, unheard of. But Spidey-Tobey was instantly preferable to Twilight-Spidey that followed.

> And JJJ of course.

>>77821909
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0Vunru7x3M
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGdACJWQZe0
;^)

>>77821961
But he wasn't describing Venom. He was describing Peter with the Symbiote suit.

>>77826141
>Barry/Iris and Barry/Daddies
Problem was that wasn't as well written. And shit, Peter dealt with all kinds of issues, not just Mary Jane. The films have the luxury of developing things at a nice an easy pace throughout two hours, while the show feels the need to dedicate at least 5-10 minutes of romantic drama in every other episode.

>>77827581
Neither of those are the original Carnage.

>>77827685
You're implying that the drama in the Raimi films is better than the drama in Flash?

top kek

>>77827749
Yeah, it's better acted and better written. Spider-man 2 especially.

>>77827969
>better acted
>Spider-Man 2 especially

hahahaha

>>77827969
Eh... Not all that much.

>>77827707
Who fucking cares? It's still Carnage. Filmmakers take their inspiration from different media not just the mainstream version of a character.

>>77828090
You provide a compelling counter argument.

Tobey and Kirsten Dunst are both great and experienced actors, with Raimi's direction and thanks to the script's tone and writing the romance feels briskly paced while still carrying weight.

I don't know how you think the Flash is better acted. Iris is literally just some hot chick they threw onto the screen and Gustin can be fun, but when things get heavy I feel he doesn't carry those moments very well. Cavanaugh and CopDad are literally the only noteworthy actors.

>>77828289
I Love Tobey, but he's no "great" actor.

>>77828410
He's better than Gustin by a landslide. You ever see Pawn Sacrifice, Seabiscuit or even Brothers? He may not be as talented as Christian Bale, but the guy can carry a scene and perform well.