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Rorschach from Watchmen

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So /co/: movie Rorschach or comic Rorschach?
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>>77771324
Fuck off.
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>>77771324
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Comic. As unlikable as Moore tried to write him, he still had his human moments.
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>>77771554
Did Moore seriously want Rorschach to be unlikeable?

That he didn't want him to be a role model, I can understand, but how can you give a character a line like "I'M NOT STUCK IN HERE WITH YOU, YOU'RE STUCK IN HERE WITH ME!" and not expect people to like him?
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>>77773487
He doesn't think that sort of thing is likeable.
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>>77773487
Being a good character and being unlikable aren't mutually exclusive.

Character can still be a cunt and be well written
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Alan Moore is a bad writer. The only reason why people consider his work to be anything but horrible is because they only judge it in comparison to capeshit which is all terribly written.

Moore would be laughed out of any other medium.
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>>77773487
Man, in Brazil, EVERYONE finds him one of the most awesome characters on a movie.

He is fucking loved here.

People who live on a country plagued by violence can simpatize with his methods, while its easy to be a critic on a first world country, on your macbook.
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>>77774141
>Germany 7-1
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>>77774243
Good, I hate soccer, I was teaching a animation convention at the time and everyone there started to cheer for Brazil loosing.

I wanted Costa Rica to win tho, those guys became meme at the time.
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>>77773487
He was supposed to be jaded asshole, but the world itself is pretty shit so he only comes out adequate.
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>>77774006
That is kind of the point. He wrote a comic about super heroes so he is compared to other comic book authors who wrote about super heroes.
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>>77774006
>X would be laughed out of any other medium.

Every time I see someone say something like this, I wonder if they actually know anything about media.

Moore isn't perfect, but he is (or was, at least) a pretty great writer.
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>>77773487

I don't get it either. He has likable qualities and unlikable qualities. I thought none of the main characters, Ozy included were meant to be more or less unlikable than the others. Of course Rorshach is probably "cooler" since he likes violence and has most of the edgy quotes.

>>77774006
Maybe literature, but not TV or movies or most other popular media.
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neither

I prefer the game Rorschach
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>>77775351

How was it? Also isn't the game set in the movie's universe, making him the same as movie Rorschach?
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>>77775268
Even with literature, this is only the case because of how ancient and massive the media is.

There is a ridiculous amount of books, both current and historical, it's inevitable that it will have a much higher amount of extraordinary works and writers than something relatively new and minor like comics.

And saying that Moore would be laughed out of literature is plain silly. There are plenty of acknowledged writers whom Moore smacks the shit out of.

Now, Gaiman though, that guy has shit prose.
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>>77775390
it was good. The combat was solid in my opinion. and it was fun to play as owlman, but as a coop game its insanely fun

but that prison level felt way too long and too big

Im pretty sure there is a demo on psn or xbla, so you should definitely try it
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>>77774006
>Moore would be laughed out of any other medium.

He would be considered a god tier video game writer, considering how low the bar is for that medium. You know the game community is depressing when horseshit like Bioshock Infinite is critically lauded as high tier art in the medium.
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>>77774326
>and everyone there started to cheer for Brazil loosing.
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>>77775489
If by writing you mean storytelling in general, then Silent Hill 2 and Cryostasis are both quite extraordinary.

The general vidya audience (and journalists) are just complete fucking idiots when it comes to recognizing good storytelling. Which is why you see mediocre shit like Infinite get any kind of attention.
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>>77775390
Rorshach wasn't as crazy as he as at the comic/movie start in the past, hence why he was working with Nite Owl. He used to be a pretty standard vigilante, though with a more strict moral code. Nite Owl kept him on the sane side of things. It wasn't until the incident with the pedophile kidnapper cannibalist that he really went off the deep end, and his methods grew too extreme for any of the rest to cope with.
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>>77771324

What's the difference between comic and movie Rorschach? He's probably the most faithfully adapted comic book superhero.
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He was literally the same though
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>>77775732
Cryostasis got boring after the first few levels.
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>>77776057
Movie Rorschach was a pedophile with knife fingers
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>>77776152

w..what
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>>77776142
It's not perfect, but it possesses some unique quality which I've never encountered in another game.
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>>77771324
Both the movie and comic were pretty great.
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>>77771518
I'd like a Mr. A reboot.
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>>77776152
kek

Nice and subtle.
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Would you argue that Rorschach is portrayed in a more positive light than he does in the comics? It seems like movie version is portrayed more as the protagonist, biasing the audience into supporting his stance against the plan. In the comic, it feels more balanced in that it's 50/50 on how people would agree or disagree with him. What are your impressions?
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>>77778506
Counterpoint: Movie Rorschach is nearly identical to comic Rorschach, but he looks better in the movie in comparison with Ozy, who seems more outwardly evil than he did in the comic.
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>>77778635
>>77778506
Is it possible to portray Ozy as remotely heroic, given that we're no longer in a Cold War environment? And that most 4channers were probably three or younger when the USSR collapsed?
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>>77774006
nah, read From Hell or some shit and stop being retarded
Moore could make amazing stories for any kind of medium
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>>77778684

>Is it possible to portray Ozy as remotely heroic, given that we're no longer in a Cold War environment?

by not applying the historian's fallacy to the story
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>>77774141
Same thing's in Russia, btw. All the people who have watched this movie there praise Rorschach.
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>>77778684
both the comic and movie depict Ozy's actions as necessary to undo the diplomatic damage caused by Dr Manhattan's participation in Vietnam
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>>77771518
Well, I mean technically Diko is still alive and could come back to this!
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>>77775390
It's okay, it didn't review well but the combat was fun and the comic style cinematics were pretty solid.
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>>77771324
Rorschach from JLU
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>>77774141
...he is written by a fat white old man in a 1st world country.

You sound like the niggers who feel like multibillion rap promoted by white companies is sticking it to whitey
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>>77779830
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>>77779913

nice ad hominem
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>>77773487
"He says an edgy line that appeals to 13 year olds who find catchphrases cool, therefore he's meant to be likeable."
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>caring about a full blown autist who doesn't realize his insane moral code is complete hypocrisy

Do grow up, Anon
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>>77780131
>catchphrase

Do you even know what that means?
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>>77780177

I mean, yeah, Ozy was a huge hypocrite but I don't see what that has to do with the thread.
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>>77774141
Brazil confirmed for real life cartoon land.
They even have masked vigilantes.
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The worst part of his his arc for me was the doctor being easily fooled by him.

Grumpy thug: "...This is a beautiful butterfly."
Esteemed doctor with years of practice and successes who has dealt with cynical criminals for decades: "HE IS GETTING BETTER YAY"
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>>77780232
So, they are a country of manchildren throwing tantrums and LARPing too seriously, and wonder why they cannot into first world?
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>>77780315
Its called having soul, nerd.
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>>77780340

Why do 3rd world countries always counter with hurrr we dun got money or a civilised society but we got souuuul?
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>>77780340
>4chan nerd calling other nerds nerd

You still are throwing massive tantrums like little babies
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>>77775489
>You know the game community is depressing when horseshit like Bioshock Infinite is critically lauded as high tier art in the medium
No, you know the game community is corrupt when publishers hold game scores hostage and the more money they spend, the better the reviews. No one but retards and games "journalists" think bioshit infinite was good in any way.
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Comic Rorschach was an unlikeable stinky homeless bum who did stupid things, but people still liked him. The movie tried hard to make him likeable and presented it as more of a likeable anti-hero.

>>77773487
The movie hyped up this line to make Rorschach more of a badass. The comic line was recited by the psychologist to the readers and comes off in a different way.
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>>77780270
He was deluding himself because he wanted commendations or some shit for reforming the guy.
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I read Rorschach decades ago as a teenager. He's always been my favourite character. He means a lot to me.

The comic book is better in every dimension, and that includes Rorschach.

The movie feels like a fanboy's interpretation. It puts tremendous emphasis on the sillier parts of Watchmen - the violence, the "grittiness", and all the other Iron Age crap. It ignores the more sensitive and intellectually challenging parts of Watchmen because the fanboys wouldn't be able to project their fantasies onto it.

For example, the subject of Rorschach's sexuality. In the comic, Rorschach's relationship to sex is tremendously layered, complex, and very much open to interpretation. One of the most interesting perspectives on Rorschach's sexuality is that he is a victim of child sexual abuse, and that many of his vigilante activities are his avenging traumatic events in his own childhood.

>the boys trying to pull down Walter's pants when he was a kid
>Walter lived in an environment where he was exposed to sexually abusive people
>"You're gonna be our woman, Rorschach!"
>"Yeah, you like that, you queer!" "Get that sucker off of him!" And the gang rape overtones to Rorschach's arrest
>Rorschach's extreme vitriol for sex criminals (of Rorschach's four murdered committed in the comic that are shown, two are of sex offenders and two are in self defence)
>"Thought of little child, alone and scared. Didn't like it. Personal reasons."
>implications that Blair Roche was raped

Rorschach as a traumatized rape victim attempting to regain power or avenge his abuse (or the abuse of others like him) is a very interesting interpretation that adds layers of sadness and humanity to the character.
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>>77786549
*I read Watchmen and was exposed to Rorschach as a teenager. Whoops.

But Snyder's film doesn't acknowledge this angle. Why? Because it makes Rorschach "less cool". Rorschach as a bad ass vigilante fighting for purely abstract principles of justice is way more in line with what fanboys want to see.

If you watch the film, the references to rape are completely ignored.

>when the boys attack Walter, there is no reference of pulling down his pants and inspecting for cooties. Instead, the boy's insult Walter's mother. It ceases to be a matter of sexual abuse, and becomes a masculine issue of wounded pride.

>when the police arrest Rorschach, there is NO reference to him "liking it", him being a "queer" or getting "that sucker off of him". All of the possible gang-rape implications are scrubbed clean.

For a movie that attempted usually copies the dialogue exactly, this is very interesting. Note that the rest of the dialogue in these scenes remains intact. Snyder intentionally whitewashed the implications of Rorschach as a rape victim from the text because fanboys don't want to project themselves onto that.
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>>77786549
I can understand how Rorschach's character is more heightened in the comic with more details to suggest his sexuality struggles and other interior issues, but I can also understand why the movie had to take that out. It couldn't concentrate on all the different layers to the characters and really only wants to show off his more obvious traits on the screen (that being his objectivist viewpoint and lack of faith in mankind) in order to go with his events that revolve around those traits. I suppose that his personal desire to avenge himself is not as openly shown in the movie compared to the graphic novel, but maybe by leaving it out, we get to see his character as someone who cares more about the state of right and wrong over the lives of people he would leave to die if they all turned out bad or oppose this viewpoint of his.
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>>77786790
> but I can also understand why the movie had to take that out.

Except there was no reason to cut it out.

If these scenes were side plots that required considerable amounts of time, it would make sense.

However, these references were in scenes that were featured, but changed. There were no differences in amount of time, production costs, etc. They were specifically whitewashed because Snyder wanted Rorschach to be a badass macho-man anti-hero rather than the complex character Moore intended.

> that being his objectivist viewpoint and lack of faith in mankind

These things hinge very heavily on Rorschach's personal issues and traumas.

For example, Rorschach's continual defence of the Comedian - a man who is the antithesis to his entire value system - stems from Rorschach's daddy issues. Again, there is no reference that Rorschach is a huge hypocrite, but there is certainly time to invent an entirely new scene that contributes nothing to the story so Rorschach can insult Daniel and Laurie by commenting on the latter's "nice pair of legs".
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Watchmen thread?
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>>77771324
I don't see much difference. He was an amazing well written character who was translated surprisingly well into the movie.
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>>77786755
The movie changed a lot of minor things which did result in the overall tone being different. It actually proves how consistent every part in the comic was. The movie Rorschach and Ozymandias seem like different characters due to the small changes.
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im confused as to why so many people hated the movie, im serious when i say it's my absolute favorite. hell, i could watch the 4 hour version once a month

coincidentally, i posted this on /v/ today
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>>77789823
I liked it too. It wasn't the same as the comic, but was still pretty good.
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>>77789823
>MGS3
>RE4
>Witcher 3
>Last Samurai
>Mastodon
>Red Fang

so much shit taste
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>>77789993
oh yeah? what's wrong with them?
what do you like?
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>>77789993
>Mastodon is bad
Fucking kek
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>>77789823
>Red Fang
I saw them in front of YACHT of all bands and they were breddy gud. Not a huge metal guy though, as much as I enjoy a good mosh I like regular dancing better.
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>>77789823
>DSII
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>>77790223
this meme needs to die

it's a great video game, but the worst souls game

if you think das2 is a bad game, you have bad taste in games
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Despite the movie's flaws, Jackie Earle Haley killed it as Rorschach.
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>>77776184
I'M NOT STUCK IN THIS DREAM WITH YOU, YOU'RE STUCK IN HERE WITH ME!!!
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>>77778506
People weren't really shitting on Rorshach as much in the movie compared to the comics, and his appearance wasn't as bad.
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>>77780340
>Soul
>Their olympics mascot has been the victim of hypermuscle porn.

Hmm.
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>>77790897
DSII was my first Souls game and I found the whole thing underwhelming. It was good for playing dress-up and little else.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SNKRo0Zalk

Ever since hearing Moore's voice-over of Rorschach's monologue I considered that the best version. Jackie did a great job, but the character Moore is presenting is so much more creepy and disturbing to listen to. Every word is seeping with hate.
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>>77792706
Holy shit.
I don't think I'll ever want to see the movie now. Yes, I have read the book.
Nothing can really top that.

Really though, Watchmen should've gotten an animated movie.
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>>77792706
Sounds legit demented. Is there a longer version of that reading somewhere?
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>>77789823
The movie is a mad fuck up. It manages to remake the comic shot for shot but completely change its tone. Also changing the end they way they did was stupid.

Snyder deserves to have his eyes gouged out.
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>>77789823
The movie strikes me as the product of someone who completely failed to understand watchmen. Somehow they managed to clone the comic almost scene for scene, yet failed to capture the spirit. Felt more like DKR than Watchmen to me
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>>77793244
>>77793517

so here's where i make people angry. i never read the graphic novel- i hate the artstyle. however, watchmen is my favorite movie of all time. while im sure the tone was changed, the most important aspect of a movie is how good the movie is- independent of it's source material. i think the film is fantastic, i love the dark and suspenseful tone as well as the ending. i read the ending because i read here that it was different and i honestly like the movie's more, makes more sense as to what ozzy would actually do
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>>77793630
>i never read the graphic novel

It doesn't make me angry, it just gives me a reason to completely discount your opinion.

Fuck off back to /tv/ if you want to suck Snyder's cock.
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>>77793658
well clearly i have made you angry
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>>77793630
>>77793665
No, angry is when I type in all caps and use exclamation points. What happened right there is that I took the bait.
Thanks for giving away your intent, though.
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>>77793630
If the Soviets thought John attacked they'd just nuke America. Ozzy would fail. They attack needed to look extraterrestrial.
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>>77778506
>Would you argue that Rorschach is portrayed in a more positive light than he does in the comics? It seems like movie version is portrayed more as the protagonist, biasing the audience into supporting his stance

No. Rorschach was always the protagonist of Watchmen. Intentionally or not, that's how Moore wrote him. He's the first important character introduced to us, the character used as the point-of-view character for most of the comic, he makes the heroic sacrifice, stands for his ideals, and wins in the end.
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>>77796668
I can understand that Rorschach is a protagonist in both mediums, but I just think that certain tweaks in the movie make him more keen to be supported rather than the comic where he's just "that one guy" against a means of peace. The scene where he dies is primarily what I'm referring to, since he actually debates with Dr. Manhattan on how everything could have been avoided if he only cared from the start. It just emphasizes more on how Rorschach understands human nature more than the Doc, based on the experiences they went through and the morals they decide to uphold. Going back to Rorschach's protag structure, I feel the only thing that changed is still the tone, since he ends in an inevitable situation and dies before he could fully explain the end plan in his legacy (the journal). That's how I think of the differences, so far.
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Comic Rorsachach > Movie Rorschach

JEH was damn good in the role, though.
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>>77776057
> He's probably the most faithfully adapted comic book superhero.
>saying this after seeing the movie's version of the pedophile scene
Nah.
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>>77798288
His voice isn't what I imagined for Rorschach but he did a pretty good job otherwise. The guy who played the Comedian too.

Everyone else sucks and were miscast.
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>>77798992
Dr. Manhattan was great, fuck you.
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>>77774326
>I was teaching a animation convention

WAT
Thread posts: 95
Thread images: 19


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