How high is MCU Cap on the Power Level chart now?
I haven't watched anything since Avengers I. Did something happen to him to increase his strength, or is MCU cap just always that strong?
Like, the latest trailer had him punch Iron Man. It didn't look forceful enough to be, like, devastating, but being strong enough to have punching Iron Man's suit even be a sensible thing to do is kind of like, what
>Luke Cage=Jessica Jones
Keep in mind this accounts for skills+powers+gear. Cap is physically weaker than Jessica, but not by enough to make up for his much sharper fighting skills.
idk, there was a comic where Daredevil managed to defeat Iron Man in his armor, but then unarmored Tony Stark took DD down almost effortlessly
so post-Extremis, it seems like Tony Stark is actually more powerful outside of the armor, at least in a straight-up melee brawl
With the suit he's definitely stronger than Cap.
In terms of pure physical power I think it's:
4 & 5. Iron Man & War Machine
Then all the normies.
I hate that people don't understand what peak human is
Cap isn't at the power level of some guy with his body type he's at the peak strength of a human being without all the health downsides that come with it as well as insane stamina and recuperation abilities. Look at a worlds Strongest man competition then Usain Bolt then Micheal Phelps take all of those put them at the peak of their careers then roll them together in the best way possible and throw in a few weirdos with abnormally good senses on top then take all that and bump it up a bit because marvel peak human is higher than real world peak human.
So basically take every real life example of human greatness, combine it, then throw away those examples in favor of fictional values that greatly exceed those?
If he's better than every naturally born Marvel human (aside from freak intelligence) at everything +5 or so, doesn't that make him superhuman by default?
No. Just Imagine if some person had every weird ability that was shown in Stan Lee's Superhumans.
And was also able to hold every physical fitness record in the world.
>a prefix occurring originally in loanwords from Latin, with the basic meaning “above, beyond.” Words formed with super-, have the following general senses: “to place or be placed above or over” ( superimpose; supersede), “a thing placed over or added to another” ( superscript; superstructure; supertax), “situated over” ( superficial; superlunary) and, more figuratively, “an individual, thing, or property that exceeds customary norms or levels” ( superalloy; superconductivity; superman; superstar), “an individual or thing larger, more powerful, or with wider application than others of its kind” ( supercomputer; superhighway; superpower; supertanker), “exceeding the norms or limits of a given class” ( superhuman; superplastic), “having the specified property to a great or excessive degree” ( supercritical; superfine; supersensitive), “to subject to (a physical process) to an extreme degree or in an unusual way” ( supercharge; supercool; supersaturate), “a category that embraces a number of lesser items of the specified kind” ( superfamily; supergalaxy), “a chemical compound with a higher proportion than usual of a given constituent” ( superphosphate).
Pretty sure MCU Cap throwing a motorcycle like it's nothing and surviving jumping off a building without any significant damage already puts him in the superhuman level.
Stopping a helicopter is not that far fetched in the movies.
Yeah, forgot about that part.
He got a significant power up in TWS. Not that I mind, since it was very exciting to see him fighting like a pro and being capable for once in the movies.
>he sruvived because he has a shield that absorbed most of the impact.
That doesn't really make sense. Then again, nothing about his shield makes sense. It absorbs all kinetic energy, except when it doesn't.
The bike was on movement, it's called momentum.
Here it's not on movement though.
ultron is fucking powerfull
+ vision powers and body
NO STRINGS CONTROL ME!
NO CHAINS WILL HOLD MY POWER!
One of the problems is that his legs are not even than heavy, even if you say "he impulse himself so fast that his body mass increases" most of his weight is still tied to the bike.
based on ultron's official powergrid
with vision powers and body his both his intelligence and fighting skills would go tier 6. his speed would go up to 4 and the rest would max out
It's because spider-man used his web slingers to reinforce it.
Throughout the entire movie spider-man is just off-screen helping move the plot forward, never showing up until the very last scene.
I dont think so. The Avengers work together.
but they would probably have to back off and plan a gimmick with Iron Man, Shield stuff and one of the Infinity gems
I love his signature kick.
That shit looked like it hurt really bad in WS. Wouldn't be surprised if most of those HYDRA agents died from it.
Even if it's a prop bike, he's still lifting three people and the prop for a total weight of about 200kg with the centre of gravity over one of his arms. Lifting a 200kg object over your head with one arm and using the other just to balance it is no mean feat. If he can do that, he can probably toss a motorcycle.
>we keep seeing threads holding up props, helping out, keep thinking it's shitty movie making and stuff they forgot to remove in post-production.
>turns out it's spidey and his webs
Ozymandias was functionally superhuman. He may not have downed any super soldier serum or been bitten by any radioactive spiders, but he could push his body to superhuman feats of physical prowess.
Cap is entirely superhuman in the MCU though. He pulls off shit that no human can.
The fight scenes are probably what I'm most excited for in this movie.
Why doesn't Quicksilver's fist smash into pieces when he punches robots in AoU at high speed?
Try throwing a beer bottle at a metal wall.
The faster you throw it, the harder it's going to smash into pieces.
>Jessica is stronger than Luke
Did you miss the scene where she was trying to hold Luke back and failing completely?
Or where Luke overpowered her with relative ease?
Jessica is barely stronger than a baseline human. Luke could fucking lift cars and shit.
And then she beat the shit out of him and knocked him 3 times. What an idiot, way stronger and invulnerable and get beaten anyway.
Most people agree that she's actually slightly stronger.
And physics don't work that way. Like this,
no way a 300 kilos bike can do that kind of damage, as someone said, it doesnt matter how strong he is, the only way to lift the bike was by being heavier than the motorcycle
You know, I love threads like these.
I'm too weak to go out anymore and most of my friends and family have stopped visiting me (I can't blame them) so a thread making me laugh this hard is really great.
This is the /co/ I first started visiting back in 2005, right here, in threads like this.
/co/ is still here, you guys some reminding sometimes.
(bonus points for >>77729511 and >>77731155)
>I mean Batman is supposedly at peak human even though hes had no super steroids.
He has perfect genetics (i don't know what it means), a special perfect diet (something in the lines of black panther), and like 3 clear powerups.
Peak humans means Superhuman but not officianlly superhuman. Nothing more, usually the strenght limit is around one ton, like 3 times stronger than our universe strongest men. Is not a hard line, is a guideline for the "peak", all other human characters most be under that line. And anything that character can't do is superhuman.
Your knowledge is shit. And he has been peak human since before Captain America existed. Also, Cassandra cain is Peak human but that doesnt mean she is stronger than batman, all peak humans have personal limits. Batman is smarter than Steve, but steve does have his mind developed to absolute PERSONAL perfection.
Yeah, I doubt I'm going to make it this movie or Doctor Strange.
My doctor is still insisting I'll make it to June, but I really don't believe him anymore.
>a /co/mrade will die in the next year
I didn't come to this thread to feel.
Also, who here is concerned that BP might not pack as much of technological "punch" as he's typically depicted as having?
I thought EMH did it perfectly, but I wonder if they managed to translate that.
'Peak human' supposedly that you reach all humanly achievable limits through natural or unnatural means. Funnily enough, that means Saitama from OPM is 'peak human'.
Batman is 'peak' in that he's achieved his maximum limit based on his genes and training. There are still naturally born people that are faster than him (Cass), more agile (Dick), smarter (Tim) etc.. Captain America will always be better than any naturally born human in any aspect that doesn't count as freak super intelligence.
Cap managed to hold his own against Ultron for like, five minutes. That alone should be evidence that he's superhuman.
At the end of TWS, Cap gets shot three times, gets the shit beaten out of him by Bucky, then falls a thousand feet and survives.
>Peak human means Olympic level tier strength, speed and reactions. Like a human...at its peak.
Nope, that's olympic level, Nightwing and Daredevil are Olympic level, Peak human means faster than the fastest olympic runner and stronger than any strongman.
Cap is peak human in that he's Olympic level strength AND agility, which are normally impossible to have at the same time. This anon put it best:
Batman isn't the best at any one category, but as good as possible in as many crime-fighting-relevant fields as possible. He's a more "realistic" peak human.
>no individual thing he does is superhuman
>clears 30 foot jumps in a single bound
>can break 55mph in a dead run under duress
>naturally calculates nearly impossible trajectories in his head, right down to ricocheting bullets back to his attackers
>makes paradrops without the need of a parachute
>shreds armored vehicles with shield throws
The guy has been superhuman for a while.
>And not a single thing there is superhuman in that universe.
When other non-metas can't replicate those feats? They are.
>Also, the shield feats belong to the shield. not to steve.
Wolverine's claws can theoretically cut through anything, he still requires the requisite amount of force to actually do that. He's gotten into fights with supers that can tank his strikes with only surface-level cuts like Thor and Hulk.
>Wolverine's claws can theoretically cut through anything
That's not how the shield work and you know it. The shield in practice is a magical artifact.
>When other non-metas can't replicate those feats? They are.
But they can. your generic ninja can do most of that stuff in comics, i get it, you are a fanboy, but Steve rogers is not superhuman, he has been in the past, but he is usually not, Also, stop mixing different versions of the character, Ultimate Cap (actual superhuman), 616, and MCU are different, and have different habilities.
>That's not how the shield work and you know it. The shield in practice is a magical artifact.
Of course the shield is magical you fucking clod, it just doesn't give him incredible cutting power without the required muscle. Just like Wolverine's claws, there is a level of strength needed to achieve those feats with his tools, otherwise you get any jackass off the street that can throw his shield doing the exact same thing, but they don't.
>But they can. your generic ninja can do most of that stuff in comics
>Steve rogers is not superhuman, he has been in the past, but he is usually not, Also, stop mixing different versions of the character, Ultimate Cap (actual superhuman), 616, and MCU are different, and have different habilities.
All of those feats I've outlined are from 616 Cap, idiot.
>talking about MCU Cap
>your generic ninja can do most of that stuff in comics
>Steve rogers is not superhuman, he has been in the past
>stop mixing different versions of the character, Ultimate Cap (actual superhuman), 616, and MCU
You seem a tad bit confused.
No, they are not
>makes paradrops without the need of a parachute
That's ultimate and mcu, 616 has jumped from 60 meters several times, he has landed on his fists after jumping several meters but that does not counts as "paradrop". And if he lands on his shield it doesnt count. The shield doesnt follow any logic, and steve cant destroy a tank with a metal road, only with the shield. He can't lift more than one ton, deal with it.
I think they're gonna make him have gadgets that are on par with Tony's but smaller, so that way Tony can still be the "most technologically advanced" of the bunch because he has his entire armor to fill with gadgets, while BP will just make things that are more advanced, but smaller and won't focus as much on actually having a suit of armor.
People seem to be forgetting the fact that regular humans, in our universe, have been able to lift cars under great stress and adrenaline bursts.
Like parents with kids trapped under cars, they can lift the entire car high enough to get the kid to safety.
Now imagine Cap being able to do this all the time, I'm sure he couldn't lift a car for hours, but if it required he could pump enough adrenaline to lift it and probably toss it away.
Only because I'm literally watching this right now.
Really doesn't deserve the flak it gets.
this is because of just how heavy Luke is, his increased strength plus massive weight made her incapable of stopping him from walking forward.
and not to mention she had not enough friction to do it.
Fantastic Four: Silver Surfer.
I know it doesn't exactly have good scores, or whatever, but I'm liking it.
So Spidey is set to appear right? Moneys on who will he job to in his Tonysuit?
I wish we had a team of nerds here that could estimate power levels based on forces.
So like, how much force is a helicopter using to take off? That would be how strong Cap is.
How heavy is Jessica Jones and how much force would it have taken to throw her through a wall?
>No, they are not
Nice counter, idiot.
>616 has jumped from 60 meters several times
And ended up crushing a car without breaking stride in one of those instances.
>he has landed on his fists after jumping several meters but that does not counts as "paradrop"
He was thrown into into John Steel by War Machine after he had already dropped from a plane, that's not "after jumping several meters".
>And if he lands on his shield it doesnt count.
I never brought up an instance where he did.
>The shield doesnt follow any logic, and steve cant destroy a tank with a metal road, only with the shield.
It's his strength combined with the shield's properties. The shield isn't a magical "can cut anything" tool that any jackass can pull off, it can only do that when it has the required force behind it, otherwise he'll be cutting heads and other body parts off whenever he hits someone with the edge.
>He can't lift more than one ton, deal with it.
Except in the instances where it would require the strength needed to accomplish any of his more impressive accomplishments?
>then throw away those examples in favor of fictional values that greatly exceed those?
this anon gets it
Even 616 cap is almost twice as fast as Usain Bolt (top speed 27 mph, 616 cap outruns a 50 mph bird and a 60 mph cheetah)
Cap isn't peak human like Hawkeye is a peak human for accuracy. Hawkeye is peak for humans today. Cap is peak human for all time, he's the limit of human genetics. The super soldier serum was less like steroids and more like concentrated eugenics experiments. You'd have to selectively breed the best athletes for decades if not centuries to naturally make a Captain America level human.
According to Deathbattle, it means he can bench 1000lbs.
The idea of a peak human is beyond bullshit because to be the absolute strongest a man can be, you need to have a diet with so many calories and protein it's not even funny. You have to slam those muscles every single day. More than anything, you have to be sedentary. Any cardio will kill those muscles and make you puny again. You will never see Mr. Olympia run a mile because he's trained his body toward fast-twitch muscles, left his heart to wither away, and altered how his muscles use energy. On the flip side, being a runner--and by runner, I mean someone who runs 20 miles at a time, not someone who sprints--will eat away all their muscle. The constant force exerted on the bones in their legs will destroy them. They'll have trained their body to grow more slow-twitch muscles, which will keep them locked into long activities as opposed to the fast-twitch quick and over ones.
To be a "peak human", you have to have the strength of one of those olympic powerlifters, the cardio of a marathonner, and the body of an actor. None of those things can exist in one body, so fuck Batman being peak human. Fuck anyone being peak human. It can't happen and it won't ever happen. Batman is jacked, but not peak. Cap is superhuman.
Peak human means the best a human can be. The strongest, fastest, and so on, all bundled into one man. You win the Olympics by being the best in one category, be it strength, or by winning a marathon in other places. Being a peak human doesn't make you stronger than an Olympian since they're already as strong as it gets.
>So like, how much force is a helicopter using to take off? That would be how strong Cap is.
Pretty small, at takeoff, the lift less the mass is on the order of 10s of kgs. More can be generated but a small helo like that would be seriously perturbed by the hundreds of kilos Cap can exert. It's not much more far fetched than throwing a motorcycle.
All it takes is for him to use something something and Stark to go "WTF," I believe that'd get the point across, but if they do >>77732616 I believe that'd be a more resounding setup for his upcoming solo film.
Also, I think people tend to underestimate what a "perfect" human might be capable of, but I suspect Cap has always been just a bit beyond that.
On a personal note: When I was a kid, I always loved the idea of beating down people with a shield, it just seemed so much more "badass" to slam a shield into people's faces than going at them with weapons.
We've seen it a few times, but its something I always hoped to see more of in every film with Cap in it. (Not striking them with the rim of the shield, but actually bashing the face of the shield against people)
>On a personal note: When I was a kid, I always loved the idea of beating down people with a shield, it just seemed so much more "badass" to slam a shield into people's faces than going at them with weapons.
The problem is that it spreads the force over a wide area. You'd fracture a nose but you're never going to achieve the damage of knuckleduster or even a fist.
That's fair but you're still going to do more damage by charging at someone with knuckledusters. The shield is useful for freight training a group of people out of the way while limiting harm to yourself but if you want to take someone down, you're better off with a melee weapon. Putting some sort of pneumatic ram in the front to add force would be a neat idea, Stark the Elder should have put his foot down.
I'd like to see Thor come back and PUNCH THE SHIT OUT OF EVERYONE for killing Cap
>Thor choking Tony in the Iron Man suit
>Iron Man suit is metal
>Denting the metal enough to choke Tony
>Metal doesn't just dent back when you take the pressure off it
>When Thor lets go, the metal will still be dented and pressing into Tony's neck
>Thor literally just killed Tony with his own suit
What a fucking asshole
I didn't say he doesn't have super strength. I'm saying that "he picked up a motorcycle and threw it" is misleading. As it pertains to a demonstration of strength he merely picked it up.
He's definitely stronger than Superman, that guy can barely snap someone's neck without hella exerting himself.
>Tony and Rhodes both pulling Mjolnir with repulsor gloves
>Cap pulling on Mjonlir with raw strength
Nah, I don't think so.
>More muscular strength than Falcon or Hawkeye (Have you seen their biceps)
That was a kryptonian neck, not one of those cheap knock-off spinal columns produced on Earth.
Why did Earth steal the humoid form from Kyrpton anyway? Can't they design their own species instead of just copying species from other planets?
I don't think he's actually trying to crush his neck, he's just lifting him by the neck which might cause strangulation through the noose effect but whatever the case Tony is breathless there because he just got slapped across an entire city, his systems were all completely fucked by magic lightning, there's fire everywhere, a god dude is way to close to his personal space and emasculating him and he probably peed a little.
Probably trying to gather what the fuck's going on since a bit ago during Civil War he was bi-winning.
>According to Deathbattle,
So you don't read comics, that's fine.
The rest of your post is beyond retarded. The DC and Marvel universe don't have the same rules as our universe, as simple as that.
Wait. If Wolverine's claws are just Adamantium but Black Panther's sword is Virbranium + Adamantium does that mean with enough strength you could cut wolvie in half with the sword?
I don't know why all you guys are so intent on seeing him as some kind of Superman, and why the Russos are obliging you so much. That's not the way Cap was traditionally in the comics, especially not the old Avengers comics. He even admitted he was the least powerful member of the team. His main ability was supposed to be his tenacity. That he could keep going, even when the odds were against him, and that he could be taken down but not out. If the guy can flip onto a helicarrier, catch himself with his SHIELD, then bounce it against the engines and flip off to destroy the thing, all in one smooth motion, how can we actually feel like the odds are against him, and he actually NEEDS that ability to persevere?
>He cares about that gay BS in a powerlevel thread
Well first of all as someone earlier said these scenes are just to show desperation Cap where he's doing less thinking and more just trying to stop something, secondly these scenes are precisely to show what happens when all those stunt theatrics can't stop the literal army of people trying to kill his friend so he has to persevere in the most hopeful way even when he knows the way he's doing so is hopeless.
That "according to deathbattle" was supposed to be a hit on them and the idea of a peak human. The rest of my post is perfectly sound. Physics may work a bit differently, but a human is a human through and through.
>fly by swinging his arms
I didn't know I wanted this.
I now want old Steve to somehow get this strong and start flying around in his version of a "Falcon" getup, sans wings, and give Captain Falcon smug looks as he flies across the city while Wilson just looks on, completely bewildered.
>Physics may work a bit differently, but a human is a human through and through.
But they are not, from having meta-genes, to living in a bigger or smaller planet, to be experiments from celestial being, to having been affected by cosmic rays, or experimenting on when they were homo habilis, blah blah bla. You are a retard if you believe batman is just a fit dude, we are talking about a character that can close his wounds using chi, melt ice just by being concentrated, can bend steal as if it were paper, and has a kicks stronger than a car crash.
Hell, Drago in Rocky had punches that were stronger than a shotgun, and rocky didnt got killed. And that is a "realistic" universe. The idea that "cardio would kill his gains" is just dumb.
>MCU Caps power level increases every time someone threatens FREEDOM
This is so true.
Also is it just me or for everytime Bucky gets threatened Cap wrecks a wider area than usual?
In CATFA he takes down Hydra
In CATWS he takes down SHIELD
Why didn't Zola try to use his formula on himself instead of going full digital. Also, is there a backup Zola, in the time between the 70s and Winter Soldier data densities should have increased enough for every high ranking HYDRA agent to have a Zola phone.
I'm willing to bet nobody realized it had worked at the time of Zola's death. It took some time for Bucky to recovered, and he didn't seem to exhibit superhuman abilities until after the shock of his 'death'.
Batman is definitely at Peak Human Conditioning, I've even seem him listed as the perfect human, though I'm pretty sure it was from a wiki page. From what I know, Batman is as strong as Cap and a lot smarter. Running and jumping isn't something they would focus on with Batman, so I really have no clue how he preforms in those.
The term will differ between both companies, with Marvel probably making it seem like someone who is Peak Human is better just because of Cap.
per the comics.
vibranium is force, adamantium is durability.
if you want a blade thats cuts deep without losing its edge, you go ada. if you want an armor that doesn't kill your ribs when it takes a tank round, go vibra. adamantium doesnt break or scratch but it will bend when its thin. vibranium is vulnerable to damage that isnt caused by kinetic energy, like acid or heat. (which is why you can process it easier.)
in the movies Cap's Shield acts like it's comic book counterpart, which is a adamantium/vibranium alloy. plain vibranium shouldn't tank superlasers. OR stand up to a shot from Mjolnir.
'Peak human' in Cap's case does not mean what it means in Batman's case.
Batman is as strong as a human can be. Cap is as strong as the human shape can be made to be without massive physiological changes, cyborg enhancements, or cosmic bullshit. He's as strong as the human race can get before it pretty much ceases to be human as we understand it.
His muscles are way denser and more efficient than Batman's.
>looking for logic in comic books
Peak Human conditioning means they are the peak of human capabilities, that is what both Cap and Batman are listed as. The only difference is the the companies choosing what that limit is, which will obviously differ.
Second largest weight on the bar says "500lbs", thats easily over 2000lbs. No point in arguing this.
Except what he did is more impressive. He pulled it over his head before his feet ever
touched the ground. He managed to generate enough force with his arms and core to flip something over 3x his weight.
>Second largest weight on the bar says "500lbs", thats easily over 2000lbs. No point in arguing this.
What do you think I'm arguing? That anon was lying?
Nope. I'm just saying that unless Batman as superpowers that kind of feat is bullshit.
Yes I've thought of this before, but have never personally found anything to support it (maybe i havent looked hard enough). I've never heard of his muscles being denser than a normal persons. The only way I could support him being the perfect human is the fact that they completely change his build. Other than that, I don't see a difference between him and Batman. Both are listed the same, but at the same time both listings differ between Marvel and DC.
Correct list would be
4. Captain America (Perfect human)
(Black Panther might fall here)
5. Hawkeye (Archery requires a lot of strength)
6. Falcon (good physical shape.)
7. Tony Stark (average male strength)
8. Black Widow (Tough to say if she's physically stronger than Tony)
9. Scarlet Witch (No real idea on her physical strength)
It feels like I'm talking to an SJW.
>Your facts and statistics are racist despite being inherently unbiased and irrefutable through being factual and unopinionated!
Bad writing is bad writing. There's no two ways about it. No matter how much you love a character and wish it were you under his muscular form, getting your little boy hole pounded, the fact that a normal, unaltered human can bench close to 2000lbs is just bad writing. Your excuse that human is just different in their world only helps my point. Changing the way a species works just so you can have someone do something cool is beyond stupid. It's just plain bad writing. Do you get the point now or should I hire a kindergarten teacher to better explain it for you?
You can't aply our universe rules to a fictional universe. Bruce has like 7 degrees even without spending more than one semester in any uni. There's nothign superhuman about lifting a ton in the DC universe. Nightwing beating over 50 armed bad guys on a small storehouse does not make him superhuman either, even if that is not possible in our world
I'd go with:
4: Iron Man (suit)
5: Black Panther
6: Captain America (5 and 6 might be switched in movies, but I think in comics Black Panther is stronger)
10: Tony Stark
11: Black Widow
Don't know about Scarlet Witch
And none of that is bad writing? Absolutely none of it?
>Here, let me just change the way humans function to make their feats seem more amazing
>My character is really special so he can just rack up these degrees instead of normal people
>H-he's just really smart
>hey anons, I take issue with claim x
>well here's the evidence for y
>but i'm not talking about y
>THEN STOP TALKING ABOUT X
fucking retard, I know reading is hard for /co/ but please do try
You're just a batfag that's upset Cap would kick his ass in a fight.
Oh batman is a normal person in universe where normal people have superhuman limits, I'm okay with that then.
So relatively he's normal but compared to Marvel or our world he's super strong.
This answer works for me.
Okay see that was the kind of simple answer I was looking for. Thank you. All these other anons are too ass pained to be coherent like you, I appreciate it.
Peak human doesn't just mean "Best Muscles Evar!"
It means Strongest and most Durable Bones that a human can produce.
It means the Most Effective Nervous System that a human can have, for better reflexes and senses.
It means the Best Immune System, Best Lungs, Best Pancreas, Best system for dealing with Endurance, Best Stomach, Best Colon, Best Skin (durability, repair) Best Resistance of Injury, Best Recovery from Injury, etc....that the human race is capable of, either thru genetics or training and hard work.
Other Baseline humans can be as good as him in one or two areas, but no one, outside of a million year old Eugenics Abomination, or a fellow SSS user, can equal him in all areas.
And none can be better than him. Or else they are not baseline. When you hit harder than Cap, your punches are SUPERHUMAN.
I'm a huge BP fan but depends on what they do in the movie. Cap is stronger than his comic self. Black Panther may be blessed by the Panther god for strength but will they do that in the films? Will he have magic tattoos for strength?
Let me spell this out for you.
The original argument was Batman is a peak human. Peak means the best, so he'd be the best human. You will never find a single man, woman or child that is, was, or ever will be who could bench 2000lbs without SOME form of enhancements. What does that tell us then? Batman does something beyond the capabilities of what the best of our species can offer. That makes him super human, since he's better than the best. Then you turn around and say "yeah well humans are just different in their universe." Ok, let's roll with that then. I'll say it again that changing the way a species works just to make your character seem more amazing is bad writing.
What we're left with is Batman either begin a super human by performing better than the best real life humans can, or you have him being one big mess of bad writing, since you're altering the fundamental parts of an entire species to make him seem even more amazing without calling him inhuman. Which is it, Anon? Is he super human or poorly written? I'm inclined to say both, but clearly you know more than me.
They haven't always made their characters 100% like the comics, but I think they will make Black Panther close to Cap or a bit stronger, otherwise whats the point of bringing him in? Also they've already shown him in the chase scene against Cap and Cap was having trouble keeping up
>Like, the latest trailer had him punch Iron Man. It didn't look forceful enough to be, like, devastating, but being strong enough to have punching Iron Man's suit even be a sensible thing to do is kind of like, what
The shield amplifies his strikes, and MCU Iron Man is generally less powerful than the comics version.
A new anon here... Batman is peak human condition, while the serum made cap go to 100% use of all of his musculus cells. Cap is literally everything that human body is capable of.
A normal human is using around 30% to 40% of his muscle cells (you can thank evolution for that), while cap is using 100% of it.
+ batman is bench pressing 1000lbs (453 kg) not 2000lbs, Cap was seeing 1200 lbs (544 kg) on each side of the bar, that`s over a ton.
Batman is not as strong as Cap... Sorry.
500lbs on the second largest weight. That's 1000lbs on those two weights alone. Even if the largest weight was only 1lb heavier than the 500lb weights, thats still over 2000lbs.
Not really in the mood to talk about Batman or Captain America anymore, gets repetitive.
In the old DC/Marvel crossover, Batman himself that there might be a chance that Cap could beat him if they fought for reals. A chance.
The fight between them was a stalemate but even Bats realized that Cap had more in the tank.
There is no way in hell that one weight is 500 lbs each. I know it`s comic books we are talking about, but no writer is so dumb as to say "one weight is 500lbs". What they are saying by that is that there is 500 lbs of weight on each side.
>Birds can beat green lantern.
Only yellow birds.
or red birds but only if they're in a 4chan banner
It didn't look like this, by any chance?
His feet are hitting the ground at about 200 beats per second whenever he runs. I'm not autistic enough to be able to calculate how hard his feet must be be hitting the ground because of that speed, but if any normal person were doing that their legs would be so much Smucker's jelly.
Hey man, birds are dangerous. They've defeated Avengers before.
He is way stronger and more durable. The only reason she won was because she had her right mind and he was trying to resist Purple Man. He has never been shown to be anywhere near weaker.
The back of a car
That doesn't suggest that she is stronger
He was definitely not going all out there. Also, she didn't lift it like it was nothing, she was showing that shes no small fry either.
If I were to rank everyone
>Iron Man/War Machine
>Cap, Drax, Gamora, Black Panther
>Black Widow, Falcon, Hawkeye
>Star-Lord, Rocket Raccoon
We haven't actually seen Black Panther in action yet but he should be at or above Cap's level.
Thor is probably misplaced but he really SHOULD be the most powerful.
I see him as Bruce Willis from Unbreakable.
He doesn't seem to have a problem with stamina, he keeps surpassing his feats, I believe he doesn't have a ceiling, he applies his body and it responds, he can lift more and more, and it'll take even more effort but he can manage it.
>Thor is probably misplaced but he really SHOULD be the most powerful.
Should be but isn't. Iron man fought a raging berserker thor to a standstill and just danced around him quipping.
Stark has a suit for all situations.
Speed chart he is at the bottom unless in the Mark 40
Strength chart he is at the bottom unless in the Extremis Armor
Espionage chart he is at the bottom unless in Mark VII
He is Techno-suit Batman, makes a suit for all situations.
>He was getting his ass beat and not saying a single quip
All he did was quip. He returned every hit he got. The most thor managed to do, in a rage I might add, was slightly dent his gauntlet and dent his helmet. Thor is a fucking joke in the MCU.
You should really rewatch the fight. Yes, Iron Man returned hits, but his clearly weren't as potent as Thor's. Thor crushed his arm, took his headbutt like it was nothing and returned it with much more power, completely destroyed him in direct hand to hand, and took no damage at all during the fight.
No they are not, Peak humans can do stuff is impossible for real world humans.
Is avengers hulk at a single powerlevel or is it like that "angrier he gets the stronger he gets" or is it moreso "hulk is prettymuch unkillable" i mean he ate a bullet literally as Bruce Banner
Christ, this shit again.
Captain America in the comics got a permanent BIG boost in strength, speed, endurance, and durability due to the Power Broker's drugs in the Unlimited Class Wrestling Federation storyline in 1985, and he KEPT that level of ability all the way up until he was shot dead in the Civil War ending.
Neither Wheadon or the Russos are fucking anything up - about 2 decades worth of comics in having Cap being clearly above 'peak human ability' is something they chose to draw from.
>He thinks Thor was going all out on Stark in the forest fight
Yes, he is superhuman. If his muscles, large as they are, are as powerful as the "world's strongest man", who is significantly larger still, then by definition his smaller muscles must be super-human, pound for pound.
>Weaker than Rocket physically
Surely you jestin.
People work out don't they? You telling me Rogers doesn't go to the gym once a day when he's not doing a mission? Since he's so far from his time I doubt anything in the outside world makes sense to him except hard work and lifting.
The moment Ultimate Cap jumped out a plane with nothing but a shock absorber and his own muscle density to break the fall we started to get a realistic look at what the Erskine Super Human Serum + Vita Ray treatment had accomplished. The blue energy of the vita rays is reminisent of the blue energy extracted from the cosmic cube, the same blue energy that ripples off of and through Thor's Hammer.
Everything I just said is true but you will argue it because that's what fourchan does, argue intelligence in favor of nonsense that promotes this weeks dvd release $.
Now the Black Widow power levels are coming from complete mystery and have almost not onscreen explaination except for Ballet and the idea that she is some kind of creation.
Also she had a jumpsuit with blue enegry coursing through it too.
Aside from his early appearances in Comics Cap has always had super strength. The SSS gives him the abilites at peak human potential, that is what could be obtained, not what currently is obtained. Take the strongest man on earth, there will be someone who can outlift him eventually, and so on and so forth. Cap is the pinacle of strength that no human can realistically achieve.
Cap's strength has always fluctuated, but there have been instances of him in comics chucking 600lb concrete block like 100yds, and motorcycles weigh less than cars so he still isn't Jessica Jones strong in the MCU. Basically he has been shown to be a little stronger in the MCU but the difference isn't as great as many people here believe.
I'd say this, with the exception of 5 and 6 being reversed, cause fuckin cap, and 10 and 11 being reverse cause I'd say Tony is is pretty wimpy without his suit. Dude's a science, after all.
His greatest ability isn't his strength or speed.
It's his abnormally good physical health and immune system.
That is the true aim of the super soldier program. To create the most perfect specimen of human health on the planet.
A perfectly funcitoning constitution that adapts and grows and maintains perfect healthy while pushing his body to perfectly adapt to every single physical and mental stimulus that a normal human being can ever adapt too without putting them into the position where their body will completely break down.
Like giving him the ability to lift 10k pounds but have a body that can never ever survive lifting anything more then 3k.
This allows him to reach the peak of human potential in every single physical and mental endeavor quickly and easily and maintain all of these positive adaptations with no effort on his part.
He is not the perfect solider.
He is the picture of perfect physical health.
Kingpin's strength levels are super inconsistent. He's gotten the shit beaten out by Daredevil, but has also tangled with Spider-Man.
>At the end of TWS, Cap gets shot three times, gets the shit beaten out of him by Bucky, then falls a thousand feet and survives.
One of those gunshots was center mass too, and it only slowed him down.
>He was straight up trying to kill him
Oh Lord you are serious
>He thinks Thor was going all out on Stark in the forest fight
Probably the only tiny unfortunate thing about Civil War being a Cap movie and having no Thor is that we don't get that scene from the comic where Thor basically makes Tony kneel before him like a little bitch for making the mistake of threatening Asgard.
So if Cap trained with Kenshiro or Strider, will he grow even stronger and learn to punch through 5 feet of pure steel or harder metals?
>4. Captain America
>9. Tony Stark
>10. Black Widow
>11. Scarlet Witch
and this is based purely on physical strength and we can't really get anything accurate on Quicksilver because is speed affects everything he does. my best guess is he is at least on par physically with Hawkeye and Falcon adding in fighting skill would change it up a bit.
Peak human means at the brink of what would actually be physically possible for a unaugmented normal human being.
He is as strong as a human actually could be before crossing the threshold into the impossible.
>If we're talking pure physical strength then Captain America is probably below Bucky
Nope. Compare when the two choked each other.
Bucky barely moved Cap choking him with his cyborg arm, later in the movie Cap one hand choked Bucky three feet off the goddamned ground.
>All other instances Bucky pushes Captain America around.
>Even knocking him 10+ feet back with his OWN SHIELD, that he just stone cold blocked.
Easily explained with leverage, for your examples.
>Ant-Man is probably below Stark
no Scott was in pretty good shape and can actually fight. when did Stark fight without his suit or gadgets to do all the work?
in fighting skill yes, but shes like a 100lb woman no way she is stronger that Falcon. maybe Stark but I still think he's stronger than her in terms of just strength.
>when did Stark fight without his suit or gadgets to do all the work?
He beat up his own body guard in a boxing ring. Just taking that as a stance on it.
>It's just strength.
She can leap her body height, probably higher. Not to mention hit harder.
>No way is she stronger than Falcon.
Are we restricting this to just arm wrestling or what? Because as I've pointed out above there's multiple ways to measure strength. On average she's stronger.
>He beat up his own body guard in a boxing ring. Just taking that as a stance on it.
I forgot about that. still Scott seems stronger to me.
>She can leap her body height, probably higher. Not to mention hit harder.
compared to Falcon or Stark? I will agree that yeah she is probably stronger than Tony but not Falcon. I'm going on just muscle mass and raw strength. fighting skill isn't a factor in my ranking. it would be a different list if I factored that in.
also, like everyone else, only used the main earth based characters we've seen in movies that have been released. don't want these lists to be 40 characters long.
>I'm going on just muscle mass and raw strength.
Muscle mass =/= raw strength, though. If we're just measuring muscle, sure, Falcon has more... but that in no way translates to strength. Especially if we break it down to the variations available, like smooth (endurance) / striated (burst), and the ability to effectively use it (which does matter in strength). Unfortunately "raw fighting skill" (whatever that actually means) does equate into how "strong" you are. Up to, and including, overriding your body's instinctual resistance to overtax itself.
I feel like your over complicating everything. I'm basing strength on pretty much "whatcha bench bro?!" I know that fighting skill and mental and physical training and all that effects how strong someone is in a fight and all that.
We should all just assume he's above peak. He's already performing feats even a peak human couldn't touch...
Like his little "jog" early in Winter Soldier. Or the fact he fell over 10 stories without a scratch. (Shield or no shield that would fuck you up, cause even a peak human's internal organs can only take so much abuse before being pulped.)
Because Scott has only recently take up the superhero gig, and Stark has been shown to be actively training for, what, years now?
I doubt Scott has even touched a bench press, even being a newly minted superhero.
>Bucky is only lifting half the weight.
So... we're not counting the arm? I doubt even each lifting with their off-hand Cap would lift less. Bucky's training was just more intense and objective than Cap's. I don't think Hydra would have been soft on his training... especially if he was going to be a Captain-counter.
Scott was in prison for 3 years. I doubt he spent all of it lifting weights but he kept in shape. plus his training had to include strength training. we only see Tony train at all in IM2 and I always felt that was his way of keeping his body healthy due to the arc core poisoning him. Tony relies on the suit for everything physical so I don't see him keeping up with any serious training regimen unlike Scott.
In the movie he certainly was. He was punching through pillars and chunked the comedian like he weighed nothing. Brock lesnar would have trouble picking up a 215 pound guy dead weight over his head like that. What was vedt ? 180 ?
retarded, but not as bad as i was thinking. I was imagining something similar to how Blackbolt flies with his voice stuff, but with Cyclops's lasers. Which would basically destroy EVERYTHING beneath him, so
He's basically cruising on a pefected yet weaker form of the soviet super spy serum that black widow was given well over half a century ago.
Neither of them age, they both have super normal physical capability, heal rather quickly.
>yeah but his super soldier serum wasn't as good as Steves
is something you're just making up
the robot arm is what makes him stronger than cap in TWS but his abilities minus the arm are equal to cap
She's been in the spy game for a very VERY long time.
For someone who's been hiding her identity and eternal youth for nearly a century, faking an identiy like that would be easier then falling off a log, or a black guy getting a on the sly bj from a lesbian.
I'm also wondering why bucky didn't recognize his old flame.
Strength /= Pain Tolerance
I actually thought they put this across pretty well in JJ. She's a bit of a glass cannon. She's super strong in terms of output, but she can't take a hit too well. Look at the bar fight scene with her and Cage against the Rugby fags. He takes hit after hit without really feeling it, but she's still tussling and getting tossed around.
Falcon can fly and has machine guns. Hawkeye can hit a fast-moving target without even trying. Black Widow can take down multiple, much stronger opponents without breaking a sweat.
Matt almost gets killed by a bunch of regular crooks. Like, every episode. The fact that he barely scrapes by was a big part of what made the series unique.
Widow's a much better fighter but she's still a nonpowered woman. She's not gonna be physically stronger than a muscular guy like Falcon.
Her fighting style is mostly stuff that doesn't rely on strength.
So if we're going purely by fighting skills/hand to hand prowess and we disregard strength, what would the top be?
>Hawkeye (did pretty well against Widow in Avengers/trained by SHIELD)
>Falcon (military/did alright against Crossbones)
Tony and Scarlet Witch are probably shit-tier and can't fight hand to hand. How do you even rank Thor and Hulk in this?