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Grayson #14: Storytime

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Thread replies: 303
Thread images: 63

So, just gonna spoil that while we get a very intriguing ending, it doesn't seem to really lead into Robin War all that well. Robin War #1 will likely feature a couple pages about Dick, I'm guessing. Otherwise #15 won't make much sense.
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>>77708829
Best variant ever. Also one of two variants this year that actually reference Dick's 75th. Dick deserved his own variant month...
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>>77708876
Oh right, I should mention Mooney is filling in. Janin was busy on Grayson #15, what with it coming out the second week of December. Expect both #15 and 16 to look particularly good since he had more time to work on them.
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>>77708876
>>77708896
...This page was supposed to go before the splash page. I'm sorry.
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>>77708896
>>77708918
This comes after the splash.
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>>77708935
Now continues normally.

>Hentai
Is this normal for Ladytron?
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>>77708958
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>>77708971
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>>77708982
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>>77708993
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>>77709012
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>>77709034
The lore is coming.
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>>77709064
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>>77709076
At first, I had no idea what Dick was doing there. I thought he was going to get knocked out by some gas.
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>>77709108
But nope, turns out he's just doing what Tiger did in #11.
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>>77709124
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>>77708958
>Love for tentacle hentai
>Is a robot

New waifu is here boys
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>>77708958
Ladytron I'd completely filthy so yes

I love her
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>>77708958
Ladytron is an unhinged sociopath, everything is normal for her
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Is OP dead
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>>77709133
Katarina the qt.

Also they're literally so close to just calling her Kathy now.
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>>77709286
Nearly.
Someone was at the door, so I had to shoo them away so I could return to qt Kathy.

>>77709190
>>77709208
>>77709238
Kek.

>>77709364
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>>77709394
>"...take me into yourself..."
Kathy does not approve.
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>>77709416
Oh right, I forgot to comment on the fact that HE WAS SPYDER THE WHOLE TIME.
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>>77709445
>All-out Spyral War is coming
>Dick vs Helena vs Minos vs Kathy vs Elisabeth vs Otto
I can feel it in my bones.
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>>77709468
Poor Middy. Also, I bet Malevo is a reference to something that I don't know.
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>>77709468
>Midnighter trying to get his dick wet
>Dick cuts the power
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>>77709493
>Yfw you won't be pushed to the ground and dominated by Tiger as he holds your neck in one hand
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>>77708958
110% accurate for Ladytron.
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>>77709521
Hnnng
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>>77709416
>Otto engineers global war and global anti-war efforts just to stop humanity from destroying itself

Truly the unsung hero
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>>77709468
Kek, cockblocked.
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>>77708958
Go forth and read Moore's WildC.A.T.S. run, it got storytimed here not too long ago. Ladytron is utterly foul and wonderful.
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Damn, this art is pretty bad.
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>>77709468
Poor Middy

Dick will owe him one now.
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>>77708829
Each issue of Grayson hasn't led into the next very well, it jumps around all the time
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>>77710061
In this case, it seems pretty clear that #14 is going to lead into #16, with #15 just being a break in the story arc. Makes me suspect that Robin War was supposed to be much smaller, but had Grayson added to it late in development to raise its profile.
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>>77709521
>story gets interrupted for a crossover
Bravo, DC.
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>>77710206
At least it took 15 issues

Nightwing was on its second crossover at that point
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>>77709124
>that Dick face
Where have I seen that before... Iron Giant?
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>>77710206
At least this time Dick might actually be able to do something competent.
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>>77709416
So how do you all think this will play a part in the Kathy vs Luka with regards to Dick in #11 and Kathy saying what Spyral wants in #8?

Dropping so many plot and hints and it'll take forever to get the whole picture. ;_;
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>>77710105
I'm hype. Robin Son of Batman has some wonky art but it's really resonating with me, but I think that's because I'm high off of Judas Priest.
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>>77709988
He better pay with his ass.
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>>77710466
Luka is using Dick to bring down Spyral and give a middle finger to her father's legacy. Elisabeth is trying to carry on her father's work.
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>it's a Mooney issue
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>>77710875
He really needs to stay away from the Grayson and Midnighter books.

His style is so damn stiff, not good at all for action.
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>>77709965
I know that Grayson #15 is coming out earlier next month so a fill-in was necessary, but I would have preferred the crossover to be the fill-in instead of the main story.
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>>77710711
Dubs confirm this as true
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>>77710105
>Makes me suspect that Robin War was supposed to be much smaller, but had Grayson added to it late in development to raise its profile.

No need to suspect, that's how they announced it. Just the bookend issues, Son of Batman, Gotham Academy, and We Are Robin were part of it then they added the rest of the Batline in.
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>>77711128
It was originally even smaller than that. King said it was originally just an annual.
It was probably going to just be Damian learning about the other kids but helping them anyway.
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>>77709190
She's not new, man.
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>>77711482
For him, she might be
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I just want to say Kathy is definitely my "new" waifu. And by new, I mean I've known her character for so long now, but this book goes a long way in... somehow making her come across as endearing.
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>>77709468
Minos is dead, right?

Also, I picked bits and pieces from /co/ and Grayso, but could someone give me the rundown on Leviathan and Spyral's histories?
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>>77712433
One of them was killed by Kathy, another was killed by Helena. There is a third unexplained one that's not dead.
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>>77712509
Really? What issue was that? I know about the two that died in issue 8.
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>>77712712
In issue 7 there's a panel with them all, but it doesn't explain any of them.
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>>77709124
A device that hurts your eyes everytime you use doesn't seem very practical.
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>>77714013
Have to give it a couple flaws so it doesn't seem so op though

Confusing and hurting the user after so long is a bit more fair than letting them do all that mind control and disguising shit willy nilly
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>>77714111
Yeah that's fair game. It's hard to have mind control without looking like bullshit in comics.
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>>77714013
>>77714111
He removes them so Spyral can't see what he's doing. He has to remove them painfully. They actually don't do anything to you when you use it. Again, he just needed to rip them off like Tiger did in #11.

Also the trade-off for having such an OP implant is that one, only people who've had serious training and experience with it (or someeone naturally charismatic and influential like Dick) could use it effectively, and two, most of Spyal's agents prefer not to use it unless necessary (Dick doesn't like manipulating people much, Helena is too good to use Hypnos unless it's necessary, Tiger is supposedly the best of Spyral's agents and he strikes me as the kind of guy who would rather never use Hypnos, etc.).
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>>77714798
It did hurt Helena earlier tho
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>>77714975
Wut.

Has it really? You know which issue? I should probably reread that part...
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>>77715483
Issue 6 or 7, whichever one was the one with this
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>>77715524
6, then. I'll read it. Thanks.

I'll be great to see that orca again. I remember when seeing something weird like that was still completely shocking to me, kek.
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>>77714798
Thanks for the explanation, although I thought the implant's surveillance problem was solved in #12

>>77715637
You want the Orca being recruited as a spy?
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>>77715797
>You want the Orca being recruited as a spy?
Do you not?
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>>77708958
Seeley and King are fucking great.
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>>77710711

Luka is Elisabeth, though. And i thought that Kathy didn't knew Otto was her real father. She also seemed to hate him.

And wasn't Leviathan something that Talia created?
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>>77716683
>Luka is Elisabeth, though.
No anon, Elisabeth is Elisabeth >>77709493


Luka is Katerina/Kathy
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>>77716683
>And i thought that Kathy didn't knew Otto was her real father.
Retcons exist, anon

>She also seemed to hate him.
Yeah and if >>77710711 is right then you're right with this
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>>77716766

Luka is the scientist. She calls herself Luka Netz. Luka is Elisabeth. She just used her real name.
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>>77716949
But the brunette was identified as Luka a few issues ago and the doctor has been going by Elisabeth the whole time, when did she go by Luka?
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>>77717113

Yeah, i'm confusing myself. I forgot that they gave Kathy the name Luka for some reason.
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>>77716804

I just hate it whenever someone retcon Morrison's work.
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>>77716949
Bruv...

"Frau" Netz, or Dr. Netz is Elisabeth Netz.

Agent Zero aka Luka Netz is Katerina aka Kathy Kane.

>>77715797
Nah, it's more like Dick and the Batfamily now have access to it, as well. This means Dick can actually use it to it's full extent, without being hit with it himself (Minos and Luka have both down this, but as we know, Luka is no longer "immune" to him anymore). Spyral can still see through his Hypnos. There's nothing anyone can do about that, you can do the movie cliche thing and just replay the same scene over and over, Spyral is too smart for that.

>>77715797
>>77715878
>Orca
Just reread Grayson #6. After reading RSoB #6 and Goliath's origin, I wish Dick took him in as a pet/gift for Damian. Nothing screams good pet like "Bat-zombie-Orca-thing-with-legs-yay."

>>77716249
SeeKing is too based.

>>77714975
And yeah, I read it. I stand by my earlier comment somewhat. I was wrong in that users don't get hurt when using it, but they aren't physically. Hel got hit by post-mental interrogation trauma, which is a direct result of interrogating a crazy Fist of Cain member, so it's not the norm, either. But, yes, they do get hurt when using it sometimes.
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>>77717294
>"Marry your noble, young Batman, Katherine."
Kathy is going for the Dick, confirmed!

I don't see much of a retcon aside from the fact that Kathy wasn't given away as a baby. She still hates her dad.

If anything, this simplifies it. It's a lot easier to go in this direction than just saying Kathy was Batwoman, when there is no indication there ever was a Batwoman other than Kate. Another thing, if Kathy is the new Agent Zero, someone so good that Batman is just another pawn in her scheme, then it would be a lot better if she was raised to be a spy from a young age, and stayed that way. Why would Batwoman suddenly be good enough to be better than Batman?

Of course, you could always say he used his Hypnos to make her think she was Kathy Kane instead of Katerina Netz, while she was still young. She went to Gotham, where she was raised there, and even joined Batman and Robin as Batwoman for a time, then the effects of the Hypnos wore off, as Otto instended, so that she remembered, faked her death, and then later received her own Hypnos to go back to Bruce and Dick to make them forget all about her. After that she started her plans. Done.
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>>77715878
Hey, I never said I was against it.

I'm down for James Bond or Metal Gear levels of absurd elements.
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>>77717538

>If anything, this simplifies it. It's a lot easier to go in this direction than just saying Kathy was Batwoman, when there is no indication there ever was a Batwoman other than Kate.

But i like Kathy as the original Batwoman. It worked in Batman Inc and enriched a lot the Kane family. I'd hate if they retcon out her time as Batwoman and Batman's lover. Heck, that would completely destroy the ending of the second volume of Batman Inc.

>Another thing, if Kathy is the new Agent Zero, someone so good that Batman is just another pawn in her scheme, then it would be a lot better if she was raised to be a spy from a young age, and stayed that way. Why would Batwoman suddenly be good enough to be better than Batman?

But Kathy was a spy... she just didn't knew Otto Netz was her father.

>Of course, you could always say he used his Hypnos to make her think she was Kathy Kane instead of Katerina Netz, while she was still young.

That'd be better for me.
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>>77717653

Here. Kathy was a spy before being recruted to Spyral by El Gaucho.
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>>77717653
>Kathy was a spy...
Oh... Sorry...

Also, I don't think Inc. is really treated as something that actually happened as shown. It's like, you can think of Inc. Vol. 2 as like the story that takes place right in between the last story preboot and first story reboot... except for a lot of the aftermath of course. That makes it hard to really place solidly. I think it should be looked at like a lot of older Batman stories, even including stuff like DickBats: It happened, but possibly not exactly as it did then.

Also yeah, I'm kinda liking the idea of Netz manipulating Kat into thinking she was a Kane, just because I'd like the Batwoman thing to stay. Dick would have a closer relationship with her, in that case.
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>>77717729
She owned a CIRCUS? Damn, if she was the same age as Dick, this would be the OTP for me. Actually, I like that idea...

Also, motion to start using super short names for the cast? Dick and Middy can stay of course.

Tig
Hel
Liz
Kat

And that's about it for the most important characters, where typing up their full names is tiring.
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>>77717816

Webb. She was Katherine Webb before marrying into the Kane family. That's why it's okay for Bruce to fuck his aunt, since they're not blood related.
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>>77717897
>Damn, if she was the same age as Dick, this would be the OTP for me
But her being older is what makes it so hot

>tfw no milf femdom last issue
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>>77708935
>"Kann ich Ihnen noch etwas"
Can they at least try?
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>>77717897

She was a lot of things.
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>>77718076
If one of them spoke it, probably

At least Janin lives in Spain so that issue set there wasn't as painful
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You know what would be cool? If King and Seeley managed to include Beth Kane somewhere. I just want to see them acknoloding the Batwoman & Bat-Girl days somehow. It could be something as simple as Kathy watching Beth play tennis from afar.
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>>77718145
No, Bette sucks and is with Kate
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>>77718169

Kate doesn't own Beth, man. Kate is somewhere else being raped by lesbian vampires or something.
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>>77718222
Kate should own her then maybe Bette wouldn't be so horrible
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>>77718240

Bette has only been horrible with Kate. You that's the truth.
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>>77718278
The only time where she wasn't was that Beast Boy mini
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>>77718346

Titans West, nigga.
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>>77718382
Nah
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heheh dick is a euphemism for penis guys so funny xD
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>>77709364
Seriously, how many Elizabeth abd Katherines do we have in the kane family
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>>77718476
A lot since SeeKing now are taking the piss about it
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>>77718527
how so?
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>>77718568
Probably named her Elisabeth on purpose.
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>>77718145
Beth is Kate's crazy goth twin sister. There are too many goddamn Elizabeths and Katharines in that family.
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>>77718476
Elisabeth and Katarina/Kathy
Betty/Bette
Beth and Kate
and a stepmom named Catherine.
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>>77718670

Beth, Betty, Bette. Whatever.

Wait, shouldn't Betty/Bette herself at least have a sister called Kat or something?
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>>77718715
They should totally do that.
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I'm confused as shit about all these higher ups and crap and i'm just gonna pretend it's a "be as confused as dick" thing
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>>77718715
>Wait, shouldn't Betty/Bette herself at least have a sister called Kat or something?
Yeah give her an older sister, but spell it "Kathryn" or something just to be a little different.

Like Elizabeth vs Elisabeth and Catherine vs Katherine
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>>77718752
Yeah, the writers aren't just spelling everything out for us right away. Instead we're getting it piece by piece and are learning along the way like Dick is.
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>>77718775
Squeeze in a Kaitlyn and Eliza somewhere.
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>>77718775

Kathryn or Kat for short. Nice. What would she do, though? She needs to do something ominous at least.
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>>77718822

Kait and Eli?
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>>77718836
Nah, as a twist just have her be a normal young woman, just older than Bette to justify why she's never there.
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>>77718884

Or younger.
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>>77709521
I am okay with this.
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>>77718715
Isn't Bette's real name Elizabeth?
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You know that one time a Starfire thread became a Dick thread the moment Dick showed up?

I feel like this thread is literally moments away from becoming a Kane family thread. I approve.

>>77718061
Yes, I'm really starting to like the idea. Originally, I just wanted the bondage scene to actually happen, as I though it would be hot. But now I actually want it to be more than just Dick tied to the bed.
>>
C'mon, guys. Stop shipping Kathy with Dick. Kathy almost married Bruce. She was fucking Bruce when Dick was still in his Robin suit.
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>>77719702
>I feel like this thread is literally moments away from becoming a Kane family thread
>But now I actually want it to be more than just Dick tied to the bed.
All are good ideas

>>77719805
pls no kinkshame anon
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>>77719805
And your point is...?

Seriously, though, yeah I doubt SeeKing will come through on this front. But, if they did, remember this is a reboot, and that Batman and Batwoman don't have to be a couple for that part of their history to be relevant to Kat. They still cared about each other and worked together.

Besides, Dick is 21 and Bruce is 32. If Kat is like 26, it would be fine. The timeline is bullshit, but even if they did adhere to it, you could go back 6 years and Bruce would be 26 and Kat would be 20. Weird, I know, but considering Catwoman is 23 while Bruce is 32, it's not that bad.

>inb4 CatDick ship
...Wait, okay, I'm keeping this part in my post, just so I can say this:

>Cat/Dick/Kat: Bruce gets Keked.
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>>77720054
>Cat/Dick/Kat: Bruce gets Keked.

>that Nightwing issue where Dixon wrote Selina trying to make Bruce jealous by making out with Dick and wanting Dick to tell him
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>>77720054

Kat is older than Bruce. Where was it stated that she is 26?
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>>77720196
When has her age ever been stated?
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>>77720680

She was married to Bruce's uncle. I assume she's a bit older than Bruce, not younger.
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>>77720143

God bless you Dixon.
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>>77718476
>>77718709
Bruce and Kate's grandmother is also an Elizabeth
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>>77721144
But did she have a sister named Katherine
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>>77721144
She appeared in The Return of Bruce Wayne
http://www.comicvine.com/elizabeth-kane/4005-84008/
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>>77721144

God... that's like my family full of Karls and Peters. The nicknames get ridiculous.
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>>77721144
Aw, forgot about her. Four Elizabeths and three Katherines.

Rule 63 Bruce would probably have been named Betsy.
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>>77721144
Maybe that's why there are so many Elizabeths.
They just get named after her.
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>>77721252
Not all of them are Katherine or Elizabeth! There's still Martha. And Adeline Kane Wilson, who isn't officially related to the Gotham Kanes but would fit right in if they did a retcon
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>>77721293

But there is still Katherine Webb, or Katarina Netz, and Elizabeth Netz problem.
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>>77719805
I'll stop when they stop making covers like this
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>>77721341
>yfw they end up retconning Adeline Kane as being Bruce's aunt
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>>77721361
Kane men are drawn to women with the family names because of some subconscious Oedipal shit.
>>
>>77721390
>Batman's Uncle Deathstroke
I'd read it. But if they did retcon in a blood tie it would probably be a second cousin or something similar.
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>>77720747
But did that happen after the reboot? I feel like if they were to keep her time as a Kane in at all, they would make it easier for themselves by just making her "adopted." Then again, SeeKing aren't known for taking the easy way out. Plus, I don't think they'll try to make Kat close in age to Dick.
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I imagine the part of tumblr that loves this book will be upset at the idea that their book will now feature Dick fight POC with his white male priviledge
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>>77721595
But it's the pervert side of Tumblr that likes this book. The SJW side already hates it.
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>>77721595
>the part of tumblr that loves this book
Bruv, the only part of tumblr that likes Grayson is the small part that is still relatively sane. That part of tumblr won't see this white priveledge shit that you're talking about.

I think you mean the very loud part of tumblr that absolutely hates this book, and that's nothing new. Also, which POC is he fighting in the first place?
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>>77721595
Well we managed to go over 130 replies in a Grayson thread without saying tumblr. Is this record?
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>>77721655
Most of comics tumblr likes Grayson, it's just one group of extremely vocal crazies that dislikes it
>>
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>Netz is capable of transferring his consciousness to other bodies.

Well, I'm glad someone was paying attention to what he was saying in Inc,
>>
I wonder if the lack of Janin is the reason this thread isn't full yet. I swear we would normally be starting to appraoch 250 posts by now.
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>>77721828
No shirtless panels :(
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>>77721828
There wasn't any really objectifying pages either that would normally get 10+ replies

And it's thanksgiving tomorrow
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>>77721726
We're thankful that the writers try to be thorough when they want to reference something.
>>
>>77721655
>Also, which POC is he fighting in the first place
Tiger and Helena.
>>
bumpity
>>
>>77724140
Wow it's usually more active in Grayson threads. Where is everyone? Is it because there's not much fanservice this time?
>>
>>77724631
no lewdness, Mooney art, very plot and exposition heavy issue
>>
>>77724631
Mooney ruined this issue.

But also the King ones in general take a little more time to digest. I have to read it again in a day or so.
>>
>>77708935
Uff, dat google translator..
>>
>>77724952
This one was written by Seeley tho
>>
Mooney as usual shit the bed.
Who would you choose for fill-in fellow Dick!Heads?
>>
>>77725663
I love Trevor McCarthy on Dick, but the style shift would be jarring.
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>>77725136
Ahh, all the backstory shit tricked me. Still a lot going on though, I need time for it.
>>
>>77725803
>tentacle hentai
Literally gave it away for me, kek. Of course, I'd already known Seeley was doing this one while King worked on Robin War, I'd just forgotten until then. I had to stop reading just to make sure I read it right. It was then that I realized only Seeley would've written that.
>>
Was Batman and Robin Eternal storytimed today? Anyone got a link?
>>
>>77726419
Cass-fags wouldn't allow it to be storytimed
>>
>>77725663
Nicola Scott. I mean, if it was possible, which it isn't. If only...

Russell Dauterman would also be really great. Loved his Nightwing issues.

I've always loved Karl Kerschl (and so Mingjue Helen Chen would be great as well, their work on Gotham Academy is similar enough, love them both), but it depends on the story of course. Neither really matches Grayson, but drawing Dick as Robin would be absolutely awesome.

Also, just wanted to mention that we need Jeromy Cox on colours, like it's unbelievable how much he actually brings to the table. He is necessary to make fill-in art look consistent with the rest of Grayson.
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>>77726419
I could do it, if people want. After reading it, though, I don't know if a Dick thread is a good place for it.

>BRE #8
>Dick Isn't Good Enough: The Book
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>>77726436
They get that obnoxious or somethin'? Jesus
>>77726541
I'd read it, though it'd probably be best to start it's own thread, as I was only asking here since it was a Batman/Robin related one, and Dick's a main character in Eternal
>>
Middy is relevant to Grayson right? Here's a (surprisingly early) preview for #7

http://www.comicosity.com/exclusive-preview-midnighter-7/

>tfw Matt's plan is to date/fuck every single super hero to get close to them
>>
>>77726541
>Dick Isn't Good Enough: The Book
Boy it's been a while since that's come up

I'd still appreciate a storytime since I forgot all about it tho
>>
>>77726622
Obviously, his plan is to get at Apollo.

>"Hey dipshit, I fucked your bf and then I killed him! Come at me!"

Of course, he won't get that far.
Because Middy has already called in both Dick and Apollo for back-up, and we'll finally get a Dick/Apollo team-up... It'll never happen, will it? And then Dick can make some Teen Titans > Prometheus quip and end it... until somehow Middy gets fucked and ends up as Spyral property as Dick runs to Gotham for Robin War.
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>>77726655
If one more poster says they'd like it, I'll do it.

>>77726622
Just read the preview, so just wanted to add:
Damn, Prometheus is cool. I'm glad he's being used again.
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>>77717294
How is that really a retcon? It's suitably ambiguous. He could have told the girls that he adopted them both.
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>>77724631
It's Thanksgiving.
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>>77722177
At what point? Pic?
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>>77726622
Prometheus truly is a villain suited for Midnighter
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>>77709468
Those are a lot of opposing sides. And soon even more characters will be introduced.
>>
>>77729555
We already know that two of them are Grifter and King Faraday, any hints as to the others? Aside from the obvious that they represent some of the various other superspy groups namedropped in the series.
>>
>>77729672
>Frankenstein
>Grifter
>King Faraday
>Sarge Steel
>Mademoiselle Marie
>Spy Smasher

Only one dude left we aren't sure of. Some people said it might be Jack Hawksmoor though, it does look like him a bit and Stormwatch is a secret organization in the New52.
>>
>>77729806
Would people get mad if some of the dudes in the shadows were new characters?
>>
>>77729844
We'd call them Mary Sues and donut steels and rage and rage and rage - oh!
>>
>>77729844
I wouldn't be
>>
>>77710237

Glad they stopped that with the bat books. It really derailed Nightwing. I liked the concept behind two of the three status quos and bith were wasted.

They never did finish the mask killer storyline did they?
>>
>>77731041
>They never did finish the mask killer storyline did they?
I can't remember which one you're talking about, but I highly doubt they did. Or if he did, it was done in an unsatisfactory way.
>>
>>77731077

There was a villain being built up to in Chicago that killed most of its heroes. It was revealed he was the one cop but the book itself never dealt with him. Wasn't sure if something else did.

How did a comic about Dick owning the circus and a theme park turn out so boring
>>
>>77731041
That was so frustrating. They gave him a home and a girlfriend and then they killed her, so he got another home and another girlfriend and then he left town, so he got ANOTHER girlfriend...

I hope Grayson doesn't end with blowing up the entire status quo when someone decides he needs to be Nightwing again. I mean, it will, but I can hope.
>>
>>77709416

So there's another reason why Elisabeth is so creepy. She literally took her old man into herself at some point. Not sure what this entails, but that is some fucked-up shit.
>>
>>77724656
Yeah I hate to say this, because Mooney seems like a great guy, but this issue could've really used Mikel Janin's art. The robo-spider fight and SPYRAL freaking out at Helena could've looked way more dramatic than it did. There were panels I liked, though.
>>
>>77729844
I wouldn't be, but I am happy that they're bringing some of the Wildstorm characters out of limbo.

Also fuck off code copy captcha
>>
>>77726541
>>77726878
Do it, please.
>>
>>77733441
OP here, also the one who said he would storyimte BRE, so I gotchu senpai.

>>77733215
Me, too.

>>77731625
Yeah, I feel the same way.

>>77731299
>>77731041
Higgins revealed all of his future plot points on a Nightwing-focused forum. Most of his ideas were good. Maybe I can find that and post it here.

>>77729844
I mean, none of them are. The point of their characters in Grayson is that they're the most established and badass spies around. By elevating Dick to their level at some point, you're establishing Dick as one of the most competent people in the DCU; if they were new characters, I wouldn't care about any of them, whereas I do care about them as of now because they are established characters.

>>77729806
Does anyone know the list of agencies that these characters are aligned or associated with? I don't know much about these characters.

>>77729555
I am just so hyped for that issue, senpai.

>>77731605
...I hope this is a joke about my joke... :(
He was referring to uploading Spyder (Otto) into their heads, one they're done fighting each other. Winner gets Spyral and gets to be the new host to Otto's brain (kek, sounds like I'm talking about Spider-Man now).
>>
>>77733581
>>
>>77733751
>>
>>77733751
Is Dick spilling some spaghetti around Bruce?

Also thanks
>>
>>77733770
>>
>>77733869
>>
>>77733877
>>
>>77733886
>>
>>77733937
>>
>>77733951
>>
>>77733962
>>
>>77733980
>>
>>77733997
>>
>>77734008
>>
>>77734025
>>
>>77734031
>>
>>77734070
>>
>>77734078
>>
>>77734103
>"ANGEL OF DEATH!"
Azreal incoming.
>>
>>77734120
Tynion, nobody cares about JPV or Azrael in general
>>
>>77733581

I actually liked all of Higgins ideas I think they just needed to be presented with a bit more fun and levity. Owning a circus? Awesome. Building up Amusement Mile? Great. Moving to Chicago and building up a set of rogues that have good potential to be recurring? Awesome.

But they all end up just being a bit too mediocre. It was starting to pick up in Chicago though and I would have liked it if Dick had gotten to take that little girl under his wing.
>>
>>77734145

I care. He's the better broken husbando.
>>
>>77734232
>Owning a circus? Awesome.
>Building up Amusement Mile? Great.
>Moving to Chicago and building up a set of rogues that have good potential to be recurring? Awesome.

Therein lies the problem. Higgins kept changing course, partly because he had to tie-in with Snyder's book. He couldn't make any one status quo stick. By the time the first Chicago arc was over, Forever Evil happened, rendering it all moot. He could never maintain a consistent supporting cast. Does anyone really remember Joey the roommate?
>>
>>77734232
He was too influenced by the DCAU and TNBA's Nightwing. He decided that Nightwing was a character who would be a happy guy (as he should be), but for whatever reason, should also be living a pretty sad life. He realized that it wasn't really working by the time Chicago happened. Even before that.

He wanted a Flash crossover, a Cyborg crossover, a Deathstroke crossover, etc. Got none of it. He wanted to do the "Prince of Gotham" story but that got shat on. His Chicago story ended way too early. Even before the New 52, Higgins helped Snyder come up with the Court of Owls story, which was going to be a DickBats story before the reboot forced them to change it up. That's the reason Snyder was initally fighting to keep Dick as Batman until he conceded and then Higgins on Nightwing happened. I've always felt bad for Higgins, man.

>>77734145
But it's good cross promotion. Azreal was big in Arkham Knight, he's going to be big in Gotham, and he hasn't been in comics in forever. Also, why not continue to undermine Dick's time as Batman, by bringing in one of the other most famous Batman replacements?
I fucking hate that they always try to undermine Dick's character. Can we not just let him be? Why does he always have to be dragged back down after he's already climbed his way up multiple times?
>>
>>77731502
Helena and Spyral have already outlasted any other character in the Nightwing run
>>
>>77729806
>>Frankenstein
so hype
>>
>>77734459
And Helena's shown up quite a bit in other books. Has Raya or Sonia Zucco or Joey the roommate appeared in any non-Nightwing book?
>>
>>77734591
Sonia was in Black Mirror first. She was brought over through the reboot and changed up. But yeah, that's it.

Joey was indirectly referenced in an issue of one of the Justice League Forever Evil tie-in. Although Owlman made it sound like she died.
>>
Thought that I should mention that Bleeding Cool is reporting this rumour that Steven R. McQueen might be joining Legends of Tomorrow in 2017.

Not linking it, because I don't want to give BC extra clicks, but I just wanted to mention that it is possible he could be playing Dick. Don't get your hopes up. There's a thread up on /co/ about it.
>>77734652
>>
>>77708993
>>77709012

So far, Tiger's been sucker punched by Dick twice, and was nearly beaten to death by a Dick lookalike. No wonder Tiger doesn't like Dick.
>>
>>77709124
What were you saying about sex, Dick?
>>
>>77735760
I think he said something about his nice, juicy assets?
>>
>>77734415

I thought Knigtfall had still happened in the nu52 but I think I see where this is going now...

Mother is part of or the head of the Order of St. Dumas. Jean Paul Valley was the heir she built for him.

I'm 100% sure of it now. Just about every single thing fits with it.
>>
>>77733751
Personally I think this story would be a bit more interesting if it had more focus on the flashback parts. Not by much though.
>>
>>77733581
>>77734120

Such a boring issue.

Like, this should have been a spectacle, with the burly brawl against the death ballerinas, but it's just dull and nothing happens and Cass does nothing cool. The only stunt is Harper "Fan Favorite" Row dropping a chandelier, which is the comic book writer shorthand for "I can't think of anything".

2/10, try harder.
>>
>>77733581
>Higgins revealed all of his future plot points on a Nightwing-focused forum. Most of his ideas were good. Maybe I can find that and post it here.
http://z9.invisionfree.com/NightWing_Forums/index.php?showtopic=6856&st=0&#entry22003440
Is this it?
>>
>>77737418
>The search for Zucco was originally going to be much longer, delving into the mask killer history/mystery of Chicago. The Prankster-- who was not initially part of the story-- was a wild card. A free agent who came to Chicago/put on a mask because of Nightwing's arrival there. The main "villain" of the story was Ghostwalker... the former sidekick of Aether. He was essentially the Robin of Chicago. In the past, it was going to turn out that Ghostwalker's identity had been found out... which lead some bad guys to kill his family. Ghostwalker hunted the bad guys down... and killed them. This brought Ghostwalker into conflict with his mentor. Ghostwalker and Aether came to blows... and Ghostwalker killed Aether. The rest of the heroes came after Ghostwalker. It's here that Ghostwalker realized how much the "mask" had ruined his life... and how much the masks ruined the city. Ghostwalker vowed no more masks in Chicago... and has murdered every mask that has come to the city since.
>Until Nightwing.
>Ultimately, things were going to come to a head in Chicago in a big chaotic third act... that forced Nightwing to SAVE Tony Zucco from Prankster/Ghostwalker.
>The next year was going to feature Tony Zucco getting acquitted for the Flying Graysons murder. My idea was to turn Zucco into Nightwing's Kingpin... with Ghostwalker as his agent/Bullseye.
>Then, as Nightwing's presence grew in Chicago, William Cobb was going to come to Chicago and start a new Brotherhood of the Wing (that was the temporary name)-- a Court of Owls type organization built around Nightwing.
>>
>>77736201
Yes. I like mini-Dick. I want more.

>>77736829
I don't like that Harper can apparently fight now.

>>77737418
Yup, that's it. Most of it's actually really cool and I would've liked it. But Grayson is a lot better. Would've been great if we got all of Higgins' run done with and then got Grayson.
>>
>>77737473
Ghostwalker story sounds cool. Zucco as Nightwing's Kingpin sounds bad. Brotherhood of the Wing sounds like it could go either way.
>>
>>77735760
He wishes they could have sex
>>
>>77737473
The Zucco stuff sounds terrible and I wish he could've just moved past it, but everything sounds like it could've been okay if it wouldn't get run over by crossovers.
>>
>>77739312

I would have liked Zucco stuff to pretty much equate to him being a mostly changed man and Dick hesitating and essentialy letting him go to be with his son. It's a bit cliche but it would have been nice contrast to Bruce.
>>
>>77739715
That's kinda what happened except he actually went to jail but Dick still felt kinda bad about it
>>
>>77739909
Didn't his wife leave him? It was kind of obvious that Higgins was setting up for a big vendetta
>>
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Bump.

C'mon guys, It's tradition for Grayson threads to get over 500 replies. No need to break the tradition
>>
>>77743707
This issue didn't offer much to talk about besides the increasing ridiculous of the Kane family tree.
>>
>>77743707
>tfw not even half way there
It'll take like three days at this point
>>
>>77743707
Sexy Kat is sexy when Janin draws her.
>>
>>77737473
Sounds like dogshit desu
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>>77708829
Is Janin off art? Because I don't think I can handle another issue this unsexy.
>>
>>77744155
Fill in for this month because Grayson 15 is coming early due to Robin War. Honestly, I feel like this book could get someone better than Janin, too. Nicola Scott or Chris Burnham would be great.
>>
>>77744155
He's back with #15 (Robin War Part 2).

It comes out in two weeks, so he needed more time to work on it, so he did that instead of #14. Expect #15 and 16 to look a lot better since he would have a lot more free time.
>>
>>77744202
Meant Cameron Stewart when I said Burnham, but he'd be great too.
>>
>>77744202
>>77744235
I love Chris Burnham but his art is not sexy.
>>
>>77744202
>>77744235
>>77744290
Nicola Scott would be perfect. The others just don't strike me as capable of drawing a sexy book like Grayson.
>>
>>77743707
Are there more mocap covers like these?

>>77744202
Even if the usual art feels stiff sometimes the panels and composition are really good, but yeah I wouldn't mind different styles once in a while.
>>
Grayson #15 preview
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>>77744788
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>>77744802
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>>77744816
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>>77744828
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>>77744788
At least it's not a shitty video this time.
>>
>>77744802
>Script: Tom King

Huh, I thought Seeley was writing this one.
And damn with this and the Robin War bookends, King wrote about 100 pages of this one crossover. Doyle and others must trust him
>>
>>77744519
Not sure what mocap means, but Janin's website has some covers he did but didn't use for #12.
http://www.mikeljanin.com/#!grayson/csz

>>77745106
Yup. This event is more or less a King story. It's why I've been excited.

But the fact that the rest of it is basically a Fawkes story, who doesn't seem to care about Dick or the other main Robins much, has me a little worried. Although Gleason is co-writing the RSoB issue so at least Damian will get to do some stuff... I just don't like that apparently Jim is getting focus here. It's unnecessary, IMO...

Unless it includes Dick revealing himself to Jim and getting him on his side, and then giving Jim his blessing to be Batman. I could dig that.
>>
>>77745253
>Unless it includes Dick revealing himself to Jim and getting him on his side, and then giving Jim his blessing to be Batman. I could dig that.
That'd be cute
>>
>>77745253
Oh thanks!
And fuck my cellphone I meant mockup, which is basically means prototype.
>>
>>77736099
If Bruce actually did it with somebody, then yeah I can see them bringing back JPV that way, with the writers using Cass and Tim as red herrings.
>>
>>77736201
Seriously the flashbacks are the best part of the entire thing so far. Harper, Jason, and Tim have been shaky in the present story, but every writer so far has done a good job with tiny Dick and Bruce.
Also it'll be interesting to read all the flashbacks in one go once the weekly is over
>>
>>77745253
Ugh, Fawkes
What all is he writing?
>>
>>77745106
Could we get King to write the Teen Titans and Red Hood/Arsenal tie-ins as well?
>>
>>77744202
If they could somehow wrangle Burham to do an issue or even an arc, I'd lose my fucking shit.
>>
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>>77734078
>Dick and Harper at batcomputer with Robin Mask and Batcowl on their respective sides.
>Snyder is still pushing his characters this hard
>>
>>77731502
When Grayson eventually ends and they make him Nightwing again I am seriously hoping for a Nightwing & Huntress book.
>>
>>77749191
>not knowing that Snyder has little to do with this weekly in the first place
>>
>>77745704
Ah, I get you now.

>>77746196
>If Bruce actually did it with somebody
Anon, I think Bruce has done it with a lot of people. As for JPV, I agree with your assessment.

But that would mean Bruce kept possibly two different proteges of his from Dick: Cass and JPV. And Dick is the one he trusts the most. That's sad, man.

>>77746482
He's writing the Detective Comics issue and co-writing the RSoB issue. So 2 of the 6.

>>77746797
He deserves some rest, anon. After writing the GL Darksied War issue in addition to his usual workload, I can't believe how much of Robin War he's actually writing.

>>77749191
I'm okay with this because they're at least implying that Dick is good enough to be Batman. They've been undermining the shit out of his character every chance they get, unless Seeley is writing the issue, so I'll take some of this to balance it out. I hope they really are just building up to a finale where Dick kicks Mother's ass and is acknowledged as a rela hero again, because I can't take this shit anymore.
>>
>>77746797
>King
>writing Teen Titans

But he's too new a writer to be ruined yet
>>
>>77750066
King already co-wrote the recent TT Annual with Superboy.
>>
>>77749803
Devin Grayson already wrote that one...

Actually it'd be hilarious if he teamed up with E2 Huntress. Something about hooking up with AU Bruce's biological daughter...
>>
>>77749803
I just want to hope that the spy stories can continue even when the staff changes. It just feels like street level stuff looks small in comparison now.
>>
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>>77718169
>Bette sucks
Fucker say that to my face and see what happens.
>>
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>>77718346
>for a few glorious minutes Bette wasn't a joke.
Why can't Bette be a badass?
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>>77750750
Bette sucks
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>>77751448
>Bette wants to suck Dick
FTFY
>>
>>77751640
Haha because Dick is also slang for penis
>>
>>77750379
I ship it. She was into him even when he was her brother.

But I have no idea is E2 Huntress is still alive or what atrocities have happened to her since she returned to the hellhole that is Earth 2.
>>
>>77751448
OOOH YOU MOTHERFUCKER.
>>
>>77751640
Yes that has been her character since forever.
>>
>>77752797
What's even happening there?
>>
>>77752962
Bette backhanding Huntress.
>why
Because Huntress is a bitch and bitches need to know their place.
>>
>>77752710
She's alive but now she's a villain because reasons, also she has a big scar across her face
>>
>>77753011
I could've gone without knowing that. How long until they re-reboot?

>checks sales
>23,459 in October
>not cancellation numbers
why
>>
>>77753090
oh god it's doing better than Gotham Academy

plz don't kill my babies
>>
>>77753090
Nig, those sales are actually not bad for current DC.

There are books with much lower numbers.
>>
>>77753090
Abnett is taking over the book in January but it might literally be unsalvageable at this point
>>
>>77753221
That's why I'm upset. It's nowhere near getting cancelled or needing to be rebooted.
>>
>>77753180
I think GA does better digitally

I hope
>>
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>>77753180
>>77753221
>it's selling better than Prez, Midnighter, Omega Men, ASS8, Gotham Academy, Catwoman, Martian Manhunter, Constantine, Justice League 3001, We Are Robin and Doctor Fate
Just die in my sleep already to be honest family.
>>
>>77753302
HOW? Do people seriously like Val-Zod and Worst Dick that much?
>>
>>77753090
>tfw there are only a small handful of books above E2S sales
>tfw all my fave books are below it
>>
>>77753180
There are quite a few books that will be culled before GA. It'll go a while longer.
>>
>>77753344
It's confirmed for a third arc anyway so that's another 6 or so issues

That and We Are Robin will probably make it to four full volumes desu
Diversity in tone and other areas as well as it being an easily crossoverable book
>>
>>77753333
At least Grayson's doing a lot better.
>>
>>77753392
32k-36k is pretty good for Dick when there's a 3.99 price tag and a title that's not recognizable like Nightwing is.

Even more impressive is that Damian's book is doing better than that with a 3.99 price tag too.
>>
>>77753425
It has both "Robin" and "Batman" in the title
>>
>>77733886
>Harper Row
>Murderer
>>
>>77753425
That's the kind of thing that tells you people are genuinely reading and enjoying the book, not just collecting out of habit.
>>
>>77755358
As long as we don't see anyone actually die them it's ok
>>
>>77753658
DC knew what they were doing with that, yes.
>>
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Bump. We need to get this thread to at least 300 replies
>>
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>>77759858
It's ok anon
>>
>>77759858
Why wasn't this published?
>>
>>77760494
The page published has Dick telling a story so there's tons of speech bubbles

It probably would've been too busy
>>
>>77760494
>>77760554
Might also be because it has the wrong Robin costume.
>>
>>77761392
The story Dick was telling the baby was a hallucination/dream he had so maybe he just wasn't wearing pants in it.
>>
>>77717729
>Kane's Kolossal Karnival
Subtle.
>>
>>77760494
They thought it was too busy.
>>77761518
I had a dream like that once. Except I was completely naked and I was at school and my clothes were in my locker but I didn't know the combination or even where it was located so I had to be nude all day.
>>
>>77759858
I actually like the final version more because of the atmosphere, but this one is really cool too.
>>
>>77763574
Yes the top of the original image being completely empty fits the story better.
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