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So, at what point does Super Strength become Super Defense? If

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So, at what point does Super Strength become Super Defense? If a character can stop the force of a moving vehicle with one hand, without injury, why would a simple fist hurt them? In both cases, it's an object coming at them, not the other way around, yet one of them hurts and the other doesn't. If they're throw into a metal wall, it hurts, but if they punch a hole through that same wall, it doesn't? What?
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>>77650167
The writers probably just forget or don't think it through.
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>>77650167
Becasue super strength is such a basic staple in media of this type that they don't even question it or think about it. They just dumbfuck through it.
Hell, just look at the people they give this unbelievably versatile and terrifying powerset too. Complete fucktards and people who won't use it to it's full potential.
Why?
Because they're both so completly sotted by the media they ingest and create for that they can't see how unbelieably potent and terrifying or awesome these abilities can be.
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Name 15 characters with super strength that do not have enhanced durability.
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They tend to go hand in hand because required secondary powers are necessary for lots of the big ones to work. Super strong muscle requires super strong bones to support them; no point in being able to lift a car if your shins snap afterwards. More importantly, super strength requires super anchoring.

That kind of anchoring issue is also part of how you get around it. If the hero is expecting the force to be enacted on him then he can brace his body and absorb the force. If he isn't for whatever reason, then he ragdolls as normal.
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>>77650167
First define strength, then make it super
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Because if you were strong enough to punch someone with the strength of a truck your body would explode under the stress.
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>>77652138
same anon

Strength- the quality or state of being strong, in particular.

strong- 1.having the power to move heavy weights or perform other physically demanding tasks.
2. able to withstand great force or pressure.

power- the ability to do something or act in a particular way, especially as a faculty or quality.
move or travel with great speed or force.

In order to have strength you need to be strong enough to handle and contain it, and to be strong you need enough power to use it properly. By this logic Super Strength is both ways. You can push 1 ton because you exert enough force to do so, so you should be able to take 1 ton if you exert the same force.

Then it gets into motion. To push you need to make a physical effort which you means you need to take a stance to be able to exert enough force to move what is in front of you. But that's because you are actively trying to do so, being caught off guard can mean you will be as weak as a human. Unless you always exert that kind of force you will need to brace yourself for such things so that means when you don't need to show your power it lays dormant. So if you are standing on the tracks and train comes at you face first, you will be able to stop the train because you actively exerting enough force to do so, but if you were walking on the tracks and a train hit you by surprise because you didn't feel or hear it coming, you would probably die.

Then it comes into a new realm with adrenaline. Adrenaline is basically what gives us the power to be strong enough to exert our strength. In this case it will always be a fight response and never a flight response. That being said it still takes time for it to run it's course. If someone points a gun to your face you have enough time for adrenaline to kick in and brace for the bullet; but if someone fired a gun from behind your head and you didn't have enough time you would die.

(cont)
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>>77652096
Ultra boy
Deku from super hero academy
Spiderman
Wolverine
I don't want to spend all day doing this.
So...
Deadpool has nigh class 2 strength but couldn't tank a bullet.
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>>77652096
Spider-man, squirrel girl, ultra boy, beast, kraven, bane, us agent, spider-girl, spider-woman, kangaroo, grizzly, disney's gargoyles, green goblin, classic moon knight under the full moon, vermin.
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>>77652490
Then you would have to factor the speed at which adrenaline is released into the body. Since it acts as a reflexual response it occurs before we are even conscious of it. That means that it is faster than the speed of thought, and works based on the speed of out synapses, so more or less the speed of light, or maybe electricity. Which is in turn faster than the speed of sound, so a bullet fired from behind with surprise may still be too slow for someone with Super Strength. But the thing about that is that Super Strength now becomes Super Speed. Harkening back to my earlier definition of power we can assume that it would increase speed and we already know that it will increase force. If someone is able to run 1 mile in 8 minutes then depending on what extent the Super Strength has developed they may be able to run the same distance in a fraction of that time. So you if you exert 1 ton of force to push something then you should be able to exert around the same amount of force to run as you push yourself from the ground. The thing that no one ever mentions is that if you are exerting that kind of force then you may push yourself right out of your footwear and perhaps off your clothing. So a transformation of material may be necessary, ergo, the Flash.

And since we already know that you can withstand the same amount of force you can exert as long as you are exerting it that means that your body has improved to compensate. Like >>77652184 and >>77652126 your body would become more durable to protect itself from itself. Which means that if you were falling from the sky your terminal velocity might be different than a normal humans terminal velocity. But again that's assuming you exert that kind of force while free falling from the sky. If you can stop a train that you should be able to live a free fall.

(cont)
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>>77652574
Spidey totally has enhanced durably. Deadpool doesn't have super strength
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>>77652574
Wolverine ain't got super strenth either.
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>>77652574
>Deku from super hero academy

This is a silly example. He has both super-strength and invulnerability, the problem is that he has barely any control over his power so he hurts himself. If he knew what he was doing he could take a nuke to the face no problem.
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>>77652574
Literally your only correct answer is Ultra Boy.
Good Job
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>>77652574
>Deadpool has nigh class 2 strength but couldn't tank a bullet.

Bullets are off-topic. You could use a nylon sling to lift two tons, it will still have a hole in it if you shoot it.

Since when is Wolverine stronger than a human weight-lifter?
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>>77652828
A moving train usually travels at 60-80 mph. If a person were to stand in it's way the conductor would already have time to use the brakes. But now you have the weight of the train being dragged along it's inertial force and velocity, that also doesn't include the amount of people and cargo inside the train which may attribute to weigh, i.e. extra force dragging the train. By the time the train reaches you the conductor's car would be obliterated assuming you exerted the necessary force to prevent yourself from injury. But there is still the rest of the train that is still in motion. When the front car collides with you the shock of the sudden stop will jolt through the rest of the train perhaps 3 cars, maybe 4 or the entire train. That jolt with significantly lower the speed of the train, but the entire train won't stop where you are standing due to Newton's Law or Motion. The rest of the train's body will crumble and crinkle under the pressure of itself so it will attempt to snake its way around its stopped head. This throws the rest of it off of the track and causes it erupt around the point of foreign origin, you.

But back to the body. Your bones would have to become much thicker and so will your muscles. If Earth's gravity was twice as intense then your bones would be twice as thick. But the pressure would exerted from you and not from the Earth. Punching a brick wall can cause your knuckles to splinter and your forearm to brittle but doing so repeatedly causes them to callous. You muscles would need to become stronger to support your bones so any type of grip or hold you have will increase in power as well. If your bones and muscles increase in power then so will your skin and other organs, and so on and so forth.

At this point I imagine Power Man being what you would look like. The more you need to exert the bigger you would get. I imagine from Spider-Man, to Flash, Power Man, to Rhino level of body structure. So there you go.
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>>77653025
He can't tank a bullet. So no.
Slightly enhanced durability because of his muscles and bones? Yeah.
The kind durability that would keep him from not being pulped by a punch that can' take out a building?
No, not at all.
Every other regular asshole in marveil wihout super strength takes those kinds of punches everyday and only end up in the hospital with a few broken bones.
His durability is comicbook human durability.
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>>77653117
If he actually did have both then he would have no problem with broken bones and generally fucked up body parts. He'd just have a problem with burning out after using his abiity for a short period of time.
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>>77653235
>He can't tank a bullet. So no.

Wtf, are you actually retarded enough to think being resistant to blunt impact implies being resistant to bullet-piercing?
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>>77653277
Mmm, no, I don't agree. His power is will-based. He has both super-strength and invulnerability, but neither passively. He has to focus to use it. If you're arguing that they are two separate powers and he often uses more super-strength than invulnerability then I will agree with that, but to say he has no invulnerability is nonsense.

If he had none his bones would fucking disintegrate instead of just getting broken. He still walks around after hurting himself instead of just collapsing into a boneless pile of organs, going into shock, and dying.
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>>77653163
You only think that because you just read the fucking wiki and a chunk of his deal is that he can't use his super strength and invulnerability at the same time.
You can not, accuratley judge the others becaue there is no wiki article written for you and you have no experience in the medium.

>>77653169
The kind of durability you would need to lift well over two tons easily should give them some level of invulnerability to small arms fire.
Like hitting weak teflon and not going in too far or just hitting the bones and stopping because they're so unbelievably dense.

Your body would BREAK if you tried to lift even half a ton over your head let alone 300 pounds, which is the way that strength has been measured in comics since forever.

And wolverine picks up beyond olympic class strength and physical durability from just fighting super strong people and is beyond the limits of what a natural person should be able to do just with strength training alone.
He's class 2
But with the adamantium added to his bones he should be lifting 3 tons no problem.
BUT his flesh is made of tissue, it just heals super fast.

As a matter of fact, anyone with increased healing should have class 2 strength and anyone with invulnerability should easily be able to get class 1 with little problem.
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>>77653235
>both wood and paper can't stop a bullet
>therefore they have the same amount of durablity
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>>77653456
>The kind of durability you would need to lift well over two tons easily should give them some level of invulnerability to small arms fire.

I literally gave you an example of a material that can lift several tons but is not immune to bullets.

Here's a question, do you think whales are immune to bullets? Because they can lift a fuck of a lot more than two tons.
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>>77653456
Show me a panel of wolverine lifting a car over his head.
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>>77653281
Bullets are just high force blunt impact, they do not pierce like a knife.

Litterally NO PUNCH THROWN AS FAST AS THEY ARE IN MOST COMICS SHOULD BE TANKABLE BY ANYONE.
Flash and hell most people with super sonic speed should be putting their goddamned fist through everyone save for cage tier and beyond invulnerable people.

Within the rules of the comic universe most people who are able to lift as much as spiderman should logically be able to tank small arms fire.
But spiderman is unique in that he simply can not. And it's not seen as weird or a big deal. He just can't.

>>77653369
That's not will based.
That's consciously activated if it was will based he'd be able to activate and use it based on his whims, not based on how he's physically able to withstand it.
His power is unstable as fuck and his strength overwhelms his body and durability.
HIS ENTIRE THING IS THAT HE HAS TO TRAIN TO BE ABLE TO USE A TINY FRACTION OF THE SUPER STRENGTH FOR SPLIT SECONDS AND TO GET THE ACCOMPYANING INVULNERABILITY AS WELL!
Get it?
He uses a tiny flash of his super strength and he breaks his goddamned bones like dry twigs.
He has to be able to physically withstand the power so that he can use it at small levels.
Cause if he uses it his body will get completely worn out instantly leaving him vulnerable to the after effects of it's use. EG broken fingers.
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>>77653670
Your example is fucking retarded because it litterally has nothing to do with how actual organic material and has fuck all to do with the internal consistency of the comic book world.

You don't understand the science and you don't understand the logic of the medium you're trying to argue for.

Go sit down in a fucking corner.

>>77653670
Cap is near class two and I've never seen him lift anything heavier then his shield. Wolverine is near class 3 based on his bones and healing ability. Hell, without his adamantium it's canon that he's got actual super strength.
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>>77652574
>Spiderman
From the few Spiderman comics I read as a kid, he could take hits from Juggernaut... that's pretty durable.
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>>77653730
>HIS ENTIRE THING IS THAT HE HAS TO TRAIN TO BE ABLE TO USE A TINY FRACTION OF THE SUPER STRENGTH FOR SPLIT SECONDS AND TO GET THE ACCOMPYANING INVULNERABILITY AS WELL!

Yes, but you're saying that when he breaks bones it's because he has no invulnerability, unless I'm misunderstanding you. This is false.

Him flicking something is like a haymaker from the Hulk, and it just breaks his finger. Even when he breaks his bones he is still displaying a great deal of invulnerability by not simply exploding into taco meat.

He uses too much strength and not enough invulnerability because he's inexperienced, but he is still using SOME invulnerability.
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>>77653811
>HE THINKS WHALES ARE INVULNERABLE BECAUSE THEY'RE STRONG
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I guess that writers dont care, or more importantly, they tend to follow the rule of cool when it comes to argumentation and logic.

If X hero can punch through a concrete wall or plow through an iron armor with ease, then of course, considering bodily physics, the body of the fist doing the punch needs to survive the punch done , then the person would need to be able to shrug off delivering the super fist, ergo, he'd by default, NEED to have super enhanced resistance to damage,pain, ect.

Otherwise, he'd crush his own hand when delivering the punch, reducing it to bone and muscle, pulped into chunks.

It's why Batman punching Superman unarmed is stupid, he's essentially punching a wall of steel and potentially harming himself, Superman wont even feel pain.
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>>77653811
Do you think that gorillas are invulnerable to bullets?
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>>77653915
This is the only way too look at it if you want to keep reading capes. None of this stuff makes sense from a logical standpoint, so just accept it without trying to make it sound reasonable.
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>>77653811
>Wolverine is near class 3 based on his bones and healing ability. Hell, without his adamantium it's canon that he's got actual super strength.
Show me.
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>>77653869
If Spiderman has enough strength and density in his muscle fibers to lift trains and cars, and not rupture under the stress, then all things considered, I always wondered why Spiderman isnt at least partially bulleproof.

I dont want to do the math right now, but packing 10 Ton Strength lifting in a human body means that your muscles have to be comparitively strong and dense, and that density means your muscles wont just break apart as easily as regular flesh.
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>>77653998
Spidey's strength works more like hydrolics like in spiders and insects or so I've heard.
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>>77653983
Yeah, the whole point of Spidey isnt that he's superstrong. For the most part, most writers downplay his might until they remember, OH YEAH, SUPERSTRENGTH, and then he holds up a building from falling.

But yeah, logically, if you're capable of lifting a fucking car with one hand, that arm is going to be dense, and strong as fuck and amazing- those muscle fibers are going to be steel hard when pushing force through them.Bullets would bounce off.
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>>77653998
Does he get lethally wounded by bullets or do they just hurt? I always assumed that Wonder Woman for example blocks bullets because they would hurt her but she wouldn't die from them.
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If we're going to be aspies about it, Superman should weigh like 800 tons and have to constantly hover to keep from sinking through the crust of the earth.
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>>77654032
It doesn't make sense, it's not like his internal structure changed to that of an insect. He doesn't have an exoskeleton and muscles attached inside its walls, so his muscles can't work like that. As I said in >>77653983 it's pointless to pretend there's a logic behind it. It's rule of cool.
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I meant arachnid.
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>>77654120
>t's not like his internal structure changed to that of an insect.
Well, it could.
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>>77653878
If he actually DID have invulnerability then he would not break bones while using his super strength.
He doesn't.
He litterally can not withstand using even 1% of his strength and always ends up breaking a lot of shit in his body.

He will only ONLY get super invulnerability AND the ability to use all of his strength once he's able to use the strength completely.

That's his entire thing. He's not as well trained and experienced as allmight and he can't actualy use much more then 10% of that strength without breaking multiple bones because the strain of using the force overwhelms the invulnerability that he gains from slowly building his body up to be a good enough container to USE the power.

Get it?

>>77653906
That's stupid for a number of reasons.

>>77653961
Gorillas can take some small arms fire. They can tank a 9mm.

>>77653990
Okay, Sabertooth is canon 15-20 class.
Wolverine's healing factor is stronger and he's a hell of a lot more insane.
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>>77654071
>OH YEAH, SUPERSTRENGTH, and then he holds up a building from falling.
Unrelated, I also always found it funny when they did this shit with very large stuff falling in old comics. Do they still do it? It's completely stupid to believe that a ship or a truck would keep their shape upon falling on an immovable object the size of someone's hand.

Also since they still weigh like regular people, these guys should be basically punching each other into the ground all the time. kek
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>>77654073
She blocks bullets with those because the 70's tv show made it look cool.
That's all.
It makes no fucking sense whatsoever and hasn't made sense that she would use those for anything except decoration for nearly a half century now.
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>>77654443
>>77654073
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>>77654483
Makes me think a regular person could hurt wonder woman with a titty twister.
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>>77654653
Well it would be extremely painful
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>>77654733
Dont do it.
Nope. Stop. Full stop.
Ignore the desire to meme.
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>>77654893
>Ignore the desire to meme.
Fine, I'll do it for you.
>>
>Someone posts the answer with information in detail
>People shitpost anyway
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>>77653730
Bullets absolutely do pierce. The reason they're deadly is because all that force is concentrated into a focused point.

Spider-Man absolutely has superhuman durability. This anon gets it:
>>77653584

In general, super strength always comes with super durability, but sometimes super durability comes without super strength.
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>>77652608
That's not true for any of those guys though.
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>>77654409
Tactile telekinesis is the go-to explanation for that.
>>
>>77650167
Concentration, direction and amount of force.
There obviously IS some degree of super toughness, but toughness of skin to pierce and toughess of entire musculature and stopping force are different; as well as toughness of a fist-sized patch of wall and body-sized.

So by tensing your entire super strong musculature (and support structures) you can exert a lot of force, that allows you to stop a vehicle. But concentrated force of the bullet will still pierce your skin and shear muscle.

In the wall example, you put all your force into the fist, the feedback gets offset by that concentrated power and you're fine.
When you're thrown into a wall, the wall gets a much larger area, it has more toughness in that area, and can withstand and feed back into you so much more of force, so if you're thrown into it with enough, it'll hurt you. Your own super muscle is also not aligned and tensed properly to tank that.
Also if you punch shit that's tough enough to withstand it without bulging, your hand is going to get fucked up. Punching walls hurts non-super you more than it does the wall. The gloves in boxing is not to protect the target, they're to protect your fist bones from breaking.
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>>77654101
Maybe he does. All the more into "world of cardboaaard" angst.
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