Let's start Hyper Crisis thread. Why does Morrison like

Because comics ultimately are influenced by the real world. His bullshit about Earth-33 and us being a creation of another universe just reeks of wish-fulfillment.

Alternatively, Morrison is Lex.

>>77610573
The stuff about Rubik's cubes will never not bother me.

Morrison seems to treat real and comic equally.

Did anyone cap the Swamp Thing theory from the thread the other day?

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>>77610573
Ill post some stuff I have saved.

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>>77613813

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>>77613831

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>>77613851

>>77610573
Come on Morrison, there's nothing magical about a puzzle having a minimum number of moves to solve, that's how puzzles work

>>77613813
What's the implication of this image, Im a absolute casual, please no bully.

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>>77613861
>>77613892
Batman is the Orion of the Fifth World.

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>>77613918

>>77613861
Ok this one is pretty fucking solid I admit.

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recent

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>>77613934

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>>77614001

>>77613878
But doesn't that make puzzles magic?
>no

Could White Lantern Flash with full access to the Source be DCs most powerful creation?

>>77613918
I thought he was Metron.

>>77614054
No because The thought robot is the most powerful DC creation.

>>77614068
That's John's interpretation.

>>77610593
It's cultural studies stuff. Morrison's hoping that by changing fiction, you cam eventually change people's perceptions and actions. That's why fiction is given metaphysical primacy: it's where culture is at its most concentrated.

>>77610573
>Why does Morrison like to associate comic with "Real" world?

Because he worships Borges

There's a guy who often posts about the idea of fiction functioning like an organism passing on genes. I'm familiar with the idea, but is there an academic essay somewhere discussing it in regards to Morrison?

>>77614538
This reminds me of how DC is organic, while Marvel is like a machine, are the posts explaining it screencapped?

>>77614739
if they are, I don't have em. Sorry anon.

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>>77614054
As the other guy said, it's pretty difficult to come up with something > thought robot. It's literally the concept of victory. The great infinite adapter. It can instantly change itself to confront any opponent, on both physical 'I'm gonna punch it really fucking hard" and metaphysical 'I'm gonna defeat the ultimate enemy at the end of comics' levels.

And stop jerking yourself off to the flash so much.

>>77615033
Superman Beyond may be the best shit ever written

I am consistently mad that Final Crisis was fucked so hard by massive delays and Superman Beyond being marketed as a random tie-in instead of required reading.

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>>77615058
It's fucking phenomenal.

It's so damn stupid, to a beyond-silver-age wacky level and I love it even more for that. It encompasses everything I love about comics and does it well.

>>77615091
>I am consistently mad that Final Crisis was fucked so hard by massive delays and Superman Beyond being marketed as a random tie-in instead of required reading.

you and me both, buddy. Every time I tell someone it's my favorite comic, I get looked at like I just raped a baby.

The damn thing is a masterpiece and Superman beyond is the greatest thing ever.

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>>77615093
The symbolism of it all is just so palpable and blatant, It's like a distilled and unadulterated version of All-Star Superman.

Hypertime was quoted in Convergence Flash 2.
Does even Hypertime belong to Orrery of worlds?
Hypertime is concept created by Morrison and Waid.

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>>77615179
kinda off topic, but it's amazing how well hypertime sums up the many worlds interpretation of quantum mechanics.

>>77614538

I think that summed up why I prefer DC to marvel quite well at the end. Still like both however.

>>77614739

Could you give us a cliff notes version?

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>>77615525
>Could you give us a cliff notes version?
not that anon, but ill give it a go. Probably gonna forget a lot

> DC is an organism because it first came from superman.

>marvel is a machine because it started with the human torch (robot one)

> DC has the 'bleed'. The ultramenstrum fluid that runs between universes and provides the key to existence. Ultramenstrum as in menstruation - women's natural monthly bleeding. This hints to the fact that during the DC/Marvel event, the DC verse was a woman. Pic related.

> Marvel is a machine for a bunch of reasons. Mainly little references like "The Machine is broken". I'm more of a DC fag, so hopefully someone else could talk about the marvel side.

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>>77615525

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>>77615842

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>>77615850

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>>77615860

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>>77615870

>>77615033
But could it beat Demonbane? ',:^)

>>77616044
taking the bait but I don't care.

It would probably end the same way his fight with mandrakk did.

Thought robot would beat Demonbane, then afterwards collapse and shut down. Even though thought robot is no more, he still accomplishes the goal of stopping Demonbane, who still accomplishes his goal in reverse.

>>77610913
What stuff about Rubik's cubes?

>>77614538
That second post is unaware that the Bleed was brought into Marvel as the superflow by Warren Ellis himself, who also made the Bleed.

Everything Hickman has done has been a continuation of Ellis' attempt to build a metaphysical structure for the Marvel U similar to what he created for Wildstorm (which was adopted by Morrison for DC by extension).

The entire idea of "MU = machine, DCU = organism" is an Ellis idea, and honestly isn't backed up by anything except the works of Ellis and Hickman. Which is because no one else is really interested in the metaphysics of the Marvel U, to be fair.

>>77616154
Grant got the number wrong of the least amount of moves it can take to finish it. Though, most are sure when Grant wrote that, it was based on old/still current back then information.

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>>77615860
So this made me think, Marvel's "trinity" really should be Hammond, Namor and Captain America, since Angel never really went anywhere.

But where DC's trinity became the trinity by surviving the Golden Age together, Marvel's kind of just died for awhile, and then got brought back later kind of like the Golden Age Flash and Lantern.

So the trinity that Marvel built for themselves after their natural one died ended up being Cap, Iron Man and Thor, another example of an artificial response to DC's organic concept.

>>77616488

Marvel is the Rome to the DC's Greece.

>>77615842
Post the Doom panel talking about the Timely machine from Hickman Secret Wars Too

>>77616238
He confused least with most.

The least number of moves to solve it is trivially 1.

The most number of moves is the God Number.

>>77613878
What is magical about it is the ability to solve it in those moves.

>>77613981

I screen capped that stuff too, but it's nice to see I won't have to edit most of it. There was also some cool stuff about the Seven Soldiers from that thread that went along with that image. If this thread is still up when I'm not busy I'll put it up.

>>77614512

Before Dawkins became famous for being a fedora tipping militant atheist, he was one of the guys who popularized the idea of "memes" as information passed along to other generations or individuals, specifically as it relates to biology. There are plenty of sociological treatises and explanations of how cultural norms and ideas spread between populations

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>>77614739
>>77614802

Here you go.

>>77618822

So if you have a randomly scrambled Rubik's cube, you can always solve it within 18 moves?

>>77611945
you can do it if you want
http://desustorage.org/co/thread/77439655/

>>77623682
If you understand how the cube works.
I got a Darth Maul head Rubik's "cube", and I haven't been able to un scramble it since I got it new.

>>77624109

I guess if you know what you're doing, and each move does actually further progress the cube to a completed state. You can always make a wrong move that only scrambles it further.

>>77623682
It's 20 moves. All moves only require 20 moves; you don't need any more than that. God's Number— the number of moves that someone as super-efficient as God would require— is 20.

Now the question is whether or not there is a universal "God's Algorithm" that can be determined to figure out how to solve any cube from any position in its most efficient number of moves.

If I had the chance, I'd pseudo-retcon Morrison's Rubik's Cube talk to involve the Superflip, a Cube position where the edge pieces are flipped while the corners and centers remain the same. It has been found that the Superflip is one position of the Rubik's Cube that requires 20 moves.

So anyone else see the finale for Shin Mazinger ZERO get posted over on /m/ cause that was pretty Hyper Crisis in nature

>>77626330

I'm mostly on /m/ for the toku threads, what happened? Does it tie into the Morrisonian Hypercrisis? (a silly question,everything is part of the Hypercrisis)

>>77626330
Are you saying this just because you saw something with a crossover and don't understand hypercrisis?

>>77614054
He'd be a tough individual human.

>>77615033
Wasn't the thought robot constructed around the multiverse by the first monitor?

Does that mean that Superman is:

1. Bigger than the multiverse

and

2. IS the DC Multiverse. As the grand archetypal superhero he is the living, breathing body of DC that Morrison writes about. The DCU come "out of" the body of Superman. The Bleed is his blood. The Speed-Force his neurons. The Lantern Energy his chakras.

The Gentry was a bad staph infection. Ultraa is his shadow.

I know it shut down after beating Mandrakk, but I'd love to see it come back online. It's not as if being reborn and powered back up is something Superman doesn't do all the time.

>>77615033
>>77615058
>>77615091
>>77615093
>>77615115
Superman Beyond is on my list of best ever Superman stories. How can someone not love the Platonic ideal of Superhero fighting the Platonic ideal of Vampire?

>>77615179
The multiverse is only the local neighborhood. Grant even called it a story of a multiverse "neighborhood watch".

Hyptertime is simply another dimension of the mandalla. Imagine the map having a "back" and "forward".

It's another dimension to the map in other words.

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>>77633708

> Bigger than the multiverse

I suppose he is technically.

> IS the DC Multiverse

I haven't seen that point before, but it is a really good one. The natural defenses of the multiverse (superman's essence and soul) are used to power and control the ultimate weapon.

> I know it shut down after beating Mandrakk, but I'd love to see it come back online. It's not as if being reborn and powered back up is something Superman doesn't do all the time.

It's the ultimate weapon, driven by the ultimate hero and it would have to come back to fight a similarly powerful enemy. Mandrakk if he comes back in some form. I suppose (in universe) that if the multiversity hadn't established it's army of superheroes ready to counter the Gentry, Thought Robot would have been repaired.

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>>77633708
>The Gentry was a bad staph infection
considering what it did to it's previous victim multiverse, it's more likely a cancer...that spreads.

Now that's a scary thought. Viral cancer.

>>77633926
...You know, that panel got me thinking.

DC really does have a baller immune system compared to Marvel. It's got a layered system. The layers don't always interact with one another but they come together to beat back all symptoms.

You got the Orrery. You got the Seven Soldiers. You got Animal Man/Doom Patrol/Book of Magic/Endless and all the metaphysical Vertigo stuff. You got a League somewhere on every world.

Marvel's immune system kind of sucked in comparison. They had the Living Tribunal and Captain Britain Corps and Exiles. All were ordered organizations. All were useless against the Gentry/Beyonders.

More fuel to the "organism vs machine" fire.

Another thing. Note how Marvel fixed its infection. After Battleworld the universe seems to be just like it was only with Miles and Evil Reed.

It rebooted. Not in the sense of starting a narrative over, but in the sense of flicking the on/off switch of a computer.

DC got over its infection by growing so hard the good guys were about to break through into our world Flex Mentallo style.

Again, Machine vs Organism.

>>77634166
The Gentry as cancer makes a lot of sense. But I tend to picture it as something else. When your superhero universe starts to eek toward the dark side they move in because the environment is suitable for their growth.

They're opportunistic diseases that infect a compromised immune system.

In other words they're AIDS. And the DCU got it from Marvel when they bumped uglies in JLA vs Avengers

I know the colors were probably just because of Ultraa, but I can't help but see Multiverse-2 as the body of Marvel's Eternity.

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>>77634423
>In other words they're AIDS. And the DCU got it from Marvel when they bumped uglies in JLA vs Avengers

This is the greatest thing ever. Krona plz stop trying to ruin everything.

>>77634166
It's called herpes.

>>77634538
>>77634423
>AIDS in JLA/Avengers
>The last crossover just before Identity Crisis and Avengers Disassembled
HY P E R
C R I
S
I
S

>>77634423
>by growing so hard

Inflammatory response! The heroes and the power were all driven to the spot they needed to be in so they could White-Cell the evil away.

This is why the sky is red whenever bad shit goes down. Wasn't it explained as the bleed leaking through into a world?

The red skies are bruising/swelling/skin irritation.

>>77634538
>>77634598
So THAT'S the real reason behind the scenes why Marvel and DC don't do crossovers anymore.

I so badly want someone to draw DC and Marvel awkwardly waking up in bed together.

Also, here's a cool observation. Some characters appear to be emblematic of their universes/multiverses. Like Superman and the thought robot.

If the Beyonders/Gentry are herpes/cancer than consider that a certain character emblematic of Marvel got killed by cancer long before Time Runs Out. A character that Grant wrote in Supergods as being the leader of the Roy Thomas era Marvel.

His name? Captain Marvel


Marvel has been a carrier for a longgggg time.

>>77634778
They had a nasty break up. Marvel-kun thought it was great that sempai finally noticed him, but Dc-chan was pissed off at the herpes and Marvel seeing some slut named Disney now.

Marvel-kun is hoping that by dating Disney and LucasArts he can get sempai to be jealous and come back to him, but it just makes DC-chan feel inadequate.

>>77627822
No there's actual reasons why it's relevant, but since I'm phone posting I'm not going to type them out right now

>>77635397
more like fun posting :^)

>>77623353
And I lost the file.

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>>77636417

>>77634947
>Captain Marvel was killed a long time ago

>Kal-El is a orphan from a doomed civilization
>Mar-Vell was a soldier from a civilization heading to its doom

>Kal-El became a champion of Earth in memory of his dead people
>Mar-Vell became a champion of Earth in defiance of his living people

>Kal-El outlived Krypton, Mar-Vell was outlived by Hala

You could go so many directions with this. The Kree Empire is what would have happened to Krypton had it not become isolationist and died. Mar-vell, by extension, is what Kal would have been like, growing up on War-Krypton.

They're both aliens who struggle fighting to protect a world that's not their own, but for Mar-Vell there's an added layer - he chose Earth by rejecting Hala. It was a clear line, a choice that Clark never really had to make (bar a few short-term stories here and there).

If we've established Hala and Krypton as being mirror-opposites - two static civilizations, obsessed with genetics, but one became expansionist and warlike, the other isolationist and peaceful - this means two things:

1) Hala is a representation of Marvel inherently being "darker"/less idealistic than DC - Marvel Krypton went rogue at some point

2) Mar-Vell is a natural extension of that: a Superman who died. Because (and you can put in the more advanced Speedforce/Bleed/Source Wall Hypercrisis stuff here as a detailed explanation) the Marvel Universe doesn't have the narrative structure of the DC Universe, with IDEAS and concepts and good ultimately triumphing over evil, but is focused on PEOPLE and being more realistic, the Marvel Superman never grows to rival the DC Superman in influence and popularity, in-universe and out-. Marvel's Superman dies and stays dead.

In closing, isn't it interesting how pretty much the ONLY major hero in Marvel's history that hasn't been revived at this point is Captain Marvel? You can't bring back that which this reality never truly possessed - you can't give them the hope of a Superman.

>>77637003
On a similar Marvel-DC cynicism-idealism note:

Both Multiverses suffered reality-threatening crises that ultimately purged the old system and replaced it with a singular, "New" Earth.

In DC, CoIE was resolved by the Flash sacrificing himself to stop the Anti-monitor.

In Time Runs Out/Secret Wars, the threat is ended when Doom usurps ultimate power and remakes the world into his own image.

Obviously, we don't know how SW will pan out, but that's irrelevant - In DC, the Flash saved the universe through sacrifice (Christ parallel?), while the Beyonders, the imminent threat to Marvel, were defeated by a man called Doom achieving apotheosis.

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>>77637003
>you can't give them the hope of a Superman.
and there you have the reason why I prefer DC to Marvel.

I read comics to escape the bullshit of real life, not to drown myself in the bullshit of somebody who has it even worse.

>>77616488
>Torch - Fire
>Namor - Water
>Angel - Air
>Cap - Earth

Huh.

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>>77637492
off topic, but reminded of of supes intimidating the fuck outta the elements.

>>77637003
desu senpai Mar-Vell has been revived a couple of times (A Skrull and then just to pass the mantle to Kelly Sue Mary Sue)
Also it is funny that most of his children turned out to be gay

>>77637848
Yes - as part of the Undead Lethal Legion or whatever they were called, during Chaos War, etc.

But he only gets revived a handful of times, and they're all one-offs - he always ends the story dead again.

It's far from the same thing as actual resurrection.

And you could even spin that as well - he comes back a few times, here and there, sporadically, just like hope does in the MU - occasionally, but it's always temporary and fleeting.

>>77634166
see Feline Leukemia Virus.

>>77638347
I don't see the connection.

>>77634423
I always associated the Gentry with depression and other creeping negative thoughts as opposed to a physical disease.

Is Cosmic Armor Superman far above even Hypertime?

>>77638740
If the question involves "can thought robot defeat..", then the answer is 99.9999999999999999999999% yes.

He exists beyond the physical attributes of the comic universe, so I assume he would know of and be able to operate in and around hypertime.

>>77638757
Can Thought Robot defeat Thought Robot?

>>77638757
No, I am not saying about can TRS defeat or something.
I want to hear about whereIs Hypertime there in DC cosmology.
I don't know about which place Hypertime shoud be there in DC cosmology.
Flash have visited another multiverse through Speed Force.
So I think Hypertime is surrounded by Speed Force wall.
But I don't know wheter Hypertime is within Bleed Space or not.

>>77638833
can god make a rock so heavy even he can't lift it?

>>77638833

Though Robot would team up with thought robot.

>>77638841
I mean, yes.

>create rock
>artificially limit your strength to less than is necessary to lift rock
>there you go, omnipotent being who can't lift a rock

The question is stupidly easy to rules-lawyer around.

>>77638844
>I AM THOUGHT ROBOT
>I, TOO, AM THOUGHT ROBOT
>FIGHT OR TEAM-UP?
>TEAM-UP
>AGREED

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>>77638838

But hypertime isn't a thing in the same way the bleedspace or the speed force wall is.

It's just passage of time that evolves multiverses into others. Kind of a flow of time that exists above the standard time of space-time, because regular time can be altered in it's specific universes, while traveling through Hypertime will take you to alternate multiverses, regardless of say, for example, what Hal Jordan as Parallax did to fuck up the universe.

Perhaps hypertime is the true time that beings like the endless experience, as they are unaffected by alterations to the regular timeline/retcons.

> But I don't know wheter Hypertime is within Bleed Space or not.

I assume that because time still flows and effects things in the bleed, that hypertime is both inside and outside the bleedspace.

My head hurts.

Pic not related.

Morrison and Mark waid created concept of Hypertime.It is about infinite number of higher time line. For example, There is pararell time line in Hypertime that Crisis on infinite earths never happened.
Wallen Ellis created concept of Bleed.
Now Bleed is one of important concept in DC cosmology.
So Which is higher concept between Bleed and Hypertime in DC entire creation?

>>77638867
>artificially limit your strength to less than is necessary to lift rock

but his strength isn't really limited. He could still lift it anyway.

>>77638902
>So Which is higher concept between Bleed and Hypertime in DC entire creation?

I don't think one is higher than the other. The bleed is just the goop that everything exists in, while hypertime is the time that everything moves through. The two exist regardless to changes made to the multiverses (space-hypertime) by whatever.

>>77638893
Thank you sir.
So If Hyper time is X axis, Is Beed space Y axis?

>>77638907
Then make a rock you can't lift. Later on increase your strength to lift it if need be.

>>77638924
> So If Hyper time is X axis, Is Beed space Y axis?

yeah that's my take on it. Instead of a coordinate comparison, think of them more as 'the framework' and 'where the framework is at the moment'.

by framework i refer to all possible multiverses.

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>>77638932
I was gonna say something about how that would make him non-omnipotent, but then realized I don't wanna get into a loop argument with ya.

>>77638907
But when we're talking about god (at least the Abrahamic version), you have to understand he isn't Superman. He doesn't wear a cape and fly around and shoot lasers.

The premise of the question is faulty because it personifies God, which is silly to begin with. He is the uncreated creator, the primum movens, alpha and omega. He is beyond the timespace understanding of reality. You're asking a fundamentally wrong question, based on the wrong premises. But sure, it can be done.

First God would have to create a vessel, a physical form to embody, in order to 'lift' anything. Any vessel could only encompass a fraction of divinity, so it's restrained by definition, and God could create a rock large enough that he -through the vessel- couldn't lift it.

But even disregarding that, my previous explanation is valid. Say you're a /fit/person, and you lift 250lbs easily. It's reasonable to assume you can lift 50lbs. Say you then ask your friend to tie you up so thoroughly that you are left immobile. Tell me, how much could you lift at that time?

Both 0 and 250.

You could only lift 0 (not at all) because you have restrained yourself artificially, but that doesn't change the fact that beyond these self-imposed restraints, you could still lift 250.

God could create a rock of any size, choose to limit his usable strength measured in whatever metric for the duration of the test, and fail to lift the rock. It doesn't make him any less omnipotent.

Local multiverse has now infinite number of universe by defeating Anti monitor and changing history of Crisis on Infinite Earths.
But Antimonitor still live and he implied in JL that He as Destroyer of multiverse has destroyed unlimited number of multiverse. What is it's implication?

>>77638938
I see.
Thank you very much, sir.

>>77638979
that's a better explanation. Thanks anon.

>>77638986
>What is it's implication?
That there has always been and always will be infinite universes.

>discussion of cancer/AIDS

Some tupes of cancer actually are transmissible, from one organism to another. Then you have some types of viruses (like HPV) that can mutate cells they infect and turn them into cancerous cells that start proliferating.

If you want to keep the STD metaphor, that works.

>>77638979
>Any vessel could only encompass a fraction of divinity, so it's restrained by definition, and God could create a rock large enough that he -through the vessel- couldn't lift it.

I see you don't understand how the Incarnation works.

>>77639056
>that one guy that got AIDS which led to intestinal worm infestation and then the worms got cancer and the worms' cancer spread to him giving him cancer
He had a hard life.

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>>77639090
..damn

>>77639073
Note I didn't specify incarnation. I don't think God would go through the trouble of recreating the Jesus experience just so he could lift a rock. He didn't come into the world in this manner to talk to Moses or Abraham, signifying that it's only something he'd do for the most important tasks (spreading the truth to humanity/sacrificing himself for humanity's salvation, etc.).

I was saying that if they're imagining God physically, with hands, lifting a rock, that's a ridiculous notion, and he'd have to make special arrangements to make that happen.

And besides, even the Incarnation works for my purpose - Jesus was crucified and died. That does not make God mortal, it makes the form he took mortal. AKA my exact argument.

>>77614001
>tfw I wrote this
STILL feels good after all this time.

>>77610573
Because that's where they're read?

>>77613981
Who came up with that knight, magician, survivor chart? I know it's based on Seven Soldiers, but is that an official thing or something completely fan made?

>>77639539
ayy lmao

you know that's not what he meant

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Its not that hes a great writer that bothers me. Its how he chooses to apply his talent. The world has a limited number of people in it who can change the world. I think he is one of those people.

>>77638893
I think its arrogant to assume that anything humans do affects the timeline, that there are alternate universes, or that time travel is possible.

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But anon, this is his way of changing the world. Through his readers hearts and minds. He's using the stories to change us.

..and his chaos sigils.

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>>77640935
>humans do affects the timeline, that there are alternate universes, or that time travel is possible.

You...you do realize we are talking about comics, right? Where all this stuff is real?

Don't let it warp your mind that much, friendo.

>>77638893
>Superman prevents Secret Wars 2015.jpg

>>77639166

Okay I see your point now.

Yeah, the entire point of Jesus as both god and man was that he HUMBLED himself in taking on a human form, which fits in your explanation of God purposely limiting his power so he could not lift that rock.

>>77640969

Supeman has HOPE. And namor is a stupid faggot that fucked up everything.

>>77641188
I missed it. What did Namor do, anyways?

>>77615870
Could this be interpreted that all of magic and mysticism used in the Marvel multiverse are fueled by the organic one from DC?

>>77641234
>77641234
Blow up the Not!Justice League

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>>77641234
Killed this guys universe to save their own, not taking the chance to save both.

I wish he survived. Beating the fuck outta the Hulk was awesome.

>>77641375
Possibly, yeah. Reminds me of the crossover when Scarlett Witch tried to use her magic power in the DC verse and it corrupted her. She said it was more powerful and chaotic than what we could interpret as a filtered down version that Marvel gets.

>>77641500

Magic in the Marvel universe from what I understand involves using power and energy from other entities and dimensions. It's not explainable by our own understanding of science, but can often be understood in empirical ways and controlled by ritualistic and legal bindings.


Magic in the DCU is alive and it is a bitch who will fuck you up if you slip.

>>77634166
>Multiverse-2
So it's an Omniverse?

>>77641809

Yes, an Omniverse made up of multiple Multiverses.

>>77641809
Reality is fractal

>>77613918
He was. Now Damian is fifth world Orion and Bruce is Metron.

>>77642350

Isn't the whole point of Darkseid War though that the Justice League can't handle their roles and are getting fucked up by being forced to take on these powers? Wouldn't that be an argument for Batman NOT being a good fit for Metron?

Or maybe it's more like even if the Justice League superheroes are meant to be the new pantheon, they can't simply adopt the domains of the old ones and have to do it on their own terms. (As Hal shows in his Darkseid War tie-in issue).

>>77614500
And Borges is awesome. Way better than the Lovecraft stuff Moore loves.

>>77642393
>As Hal shows in his Darkseid War tie-in issue

man that was such a good fucking book. Guess Hal's learned his lesson on what to do when give almighty power

>>77642454
It's not like Morrison isn't Lovecraftian as well.

>>77640877
Why does his medium of choice bother you so much?

>>77642393
>>77642504
Is Darkseid War an actual good event?

>>77643075
It's nothing amazing in terms of the main content, but what it's doing for metron, the antimonitor and other similar stuff is pretty damn cool.

Worth reading.

>>77643103
I mean, is it better than your standard summer event, like say, Secret Wars/Invasion, Fear Itself, Blackest Night (which I still hold is a fine enough story if you view it as a b-movie zombie flick with superheroes...until the end when it all falls apart)?

>>77643141
better than secret wars for sure. I like blackest night more, cause i'm a lantern fag, but i'd put it on par, sure.

>>77643173
Cool. I guess I'll pick up the trades when they come out, then.

>>77638876
Actually, it'd be
>FIGHT OR TEAM-UP
>FIGHTING FIRST IS COOL, THEN WE TEAM-UP
>AGREED
>DO YOU BLEED?
>YOU WILL

Bleed... Will... got it?

>>77637003
Ok, but where does Billy fit into this, if at all?

>>77638920
>>77638924
>>77638938
Perhaps we can think of Hypertime as a Multiversal vasculature and The Bleed as the blood flowing through the vessels. The Bleed is the medium through which ideas flow.

>>77645157
I don't think I fully understand this one, but I like it.

>>77645465

Those jokes about how Batman's real superpower is "prep time"?

They're not jokes.

>>77643173
>Better than Secret Wars
Top kek, I bet you post "based cereal king" unironically

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>>77645835
a) I don't post anything cereal king, ironically or not

and b) i offered my opinion, being that secret wars is absolute shithouse. Marveldrone please go.

>>77643103

Darkseid War is being terrible for the New Gods and specially terrible for Anti-Monitor. Now Anti-Monitor is not the half of Monitor, but a New God called Mobius that got changed by the Anti-Life Equation.

Truly terrible. Geoff Johns seems more like a Marvel writer. He turns everything mundane and literal. He's the anti-Grant Morrison.

>>77646052
The only shithouse is you're brain because it's full of your opinions
>implying I'm a Marveldrone

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>>77646387
>you're

all points you may have had are now invalid

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So when is DC actually going to touch on all of these multiple universes? The closest we get is Earth 2, and we've seen how that goes.

For example, maybe we could get a Justice Incarnate series, where Calvin Ellis and the other multiversal heroes go around different Earths, helping others in any way they can. Or even a Tales of the Multiverse monthly, where various writers can tell whatever standalone tales they want in whatever Earth they like the best.

>>77646568
well Multiversity Too is a thing that's happening

>>77646381
>Truly terrible. Geoff Johns seems more like a Marvel writer. He turns everything mundane and literal. He's the anti-Grant Morrison.

Actually his work ties into Morrison's more closely than you acknowledge. Morrison's narratives always operate on different parallel levels, with similar themes and events being echoes both on smaller scales with individual characters, and larger, cosmic metaphors. As above, so below.

Johns uses similar concepts to Morrison and has the same tendency to dig up and dust off old characters and ideas to reintegrate them into the current context of the DCU, but focuses on that that smaller scale, literal level, whereas Morrison is the big idea guy.

The Anti-Monitor is a part of the original Monitor probe that investigated the flaw that became the story that is the DCU, and was changed by that interaction, first splitting to reflect the basic foundation of any story, that of conflict (hero vs. villain, monitor vs. anti-monitor). The Anti-Monitor is still a part of the story though and as that story is ongoing, it makes that his position within it will change.

>>77646568

The last time DC tried to turn an alternate universe into a long-running ongoing series to be further developed, we got Earth 2.

And you all know why it went down the shitter and we should've learned our lesson from it.

What are the chances of the protective barrier around our Earth ever collapsing?

>>77646684

Can't effectively determine a probability without understand all the factors involved and we don't have a model to compare anything too.

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>>77639005
>>77638986
Y'see, here's how I've always interpreted the concept of an Infinite Universe

In one Universe, somebody already figured out how to destroy the Multiverse and already accomplished it. Every single Earth has been absolutely destroyed leaving nothing within the Multiverse. Yet in another completely different yet otherwise perfect duplicate universe, that same multiverse doomsday machine could have broke leaving every other universe completely in tact

Every single combination of do and do not coexist in peace with each other, every 1 existing for every 0 and vice versa. No matter what you do when it comes to cross-dimensional shenanigans don't matter because in another space of reality, those 2 universes never meet

The New 52's restriction to only so many universes is a good example of this. Even better when you consider that stuff like Batman '66 and Sensational Wonder Woman exist despite having no connection to the mainline continuity. It's just a bottled-off section of possibility that, in this universe, has chosen to keep itself separated from the rest of everything. Essentially, everything is and isn't possible at the same time due to the immeasurable amount of alternate Earths that do and do not exist at any single given moment

I mean, it isn't called Infinite for nothing

>>77646684
It collapses every Wednesday.

>>77646632
>The Anti-Monitor is a part of the original Monitor probe that investigated the flaw that became the story that is the DCU, and was changed by that interaction, first splitting to reflect the basic foundation of any story, that of conflict (hero vs. villain, monitor vs. anti-monitor). The Anti-Monitor is still a part of the story though and as that story is ongoing, it makes that his position within it will change.

Not according to Geoff Johns. The Anti-Monitor now has nothing to do with the Monitors. He's a New God. What changed the Anti-Monitor was the Anti-Life Equation. Geoff Johns is ignoring everything in favor or "redeeming" the Anti-Monitor, as if he needed that.

Geoff Johns is always going in another direction. Just because he likes to dig up and prop up old characters that doesn't make him equal to Morrison, especially when he twists these characters to fit his ideas. He don't work with what he has. He alter the characters. Take what he did to Superboy, for example. He ignored what was there and changed the character and canon to fit his head-canon.

Geoff Johns has more in common with Brian Bendis than Grant Morrison.

>>77646750
>In one Universe, somebody already figured out how to destroy the Multiverse and already accomplished it. Every single Earth has been absolutely destroyed leaving nothing within the Multiverse. Yet in another completely different yet otherwise perfect duplicate universe, that same multiverse doomsday machine could have broke leaving every other universe completely in tact
>A universe where Superman's miracle machine failed.
>A universe where the Thought Robot failed

>>77646769

That's my point though, being a part of the germ worlds now, he's vulnerable to retcons from another writer, just like any other character.

Now we can argue about whether it was a GOOD change or not (I don't much like it either, Johns writes REALLY fucking good sympathetic villains, but I like AM better as a force of nature, not a tragic figure), but you can't argue that he's somehow exempt from those changes. Nothing in the DCU is.

>>77646412
>being this new
Go back to reddit or tumblr faggot

>>77646632
>Morrison is the big idea guy
For you

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>>77646750

>I mean, it isn't called Infinite for nothing

and all those different lives and dreams and stories swirling around each other and interacting and not interacting and superman goes and fucking LIFTS IT

Absolutely bonkers and I love it so much

Okay

But what does any of it MEAN?

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>>77646818

>>77646864
>Okay
>But what does any of it MEAN?
What did he mean by this?

>>77646592
You mean Multiversity 2: This time, it's not Multiversity 1?

>>77646864
That's for you to work out and understand anon.

After everything, the only part that really matters is the affects it has on your life and what you remember

>>77646895
see
>>>77646750

>>77646888
Okay is clearly the longform of "ok" or "omega kappa" which are both greek letters.

MEAN is all caps, which means we have to add the values together and end up with 17. 17 is prime, just like Earth-Prime!!!!

>>77646804

The problem is that you're trying to excuse Geoff Johns changes by using the Orrery set-up, but in this case Johns tried to do a Morrison by referencing all the reboots in an attempt to show that the Anti-Monitor has always been a New God. He's trying to say that the Anti-Monitor has always been a New God despite the constant changes inside the Orrery. He's trying to ape Morrison, be grandiose, while ignoring the rules.

I'd understand if the NEW version of Anti-Monitor post-Flashpoint was different, but that's not the case.

>>77646592
Yeah, but the first one in that series is just a story about a Flash that can't stop going fast. I want more insight into universes we've just gleamed over before.

>>77646655
The main reason that failed was because DC wanted to do a Earth 2 Batman ongoing with Tim Taylor, which enraged Robinson so much that he left.

So all DC has to do is NOT focus on Batman in their alternate universes. Unless the writer wants to do that himself, but we saw how Didio cancelled Elseworlds after all of them became "what if Superman was X or Batman was Y?"

>>77646750

Multiverse is a collection of Universes. Omniverse is a collection of Multiverses. A Multiverse can't reside inside a Universe. Well, it can, but you know, if it's a pocket one or if it's a portal.

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>>77646954
>So all DC has to do is NOT focus on Batman

Good fucking luck with that.

I'm still absolutely amazed at how little of a presence he had in multiversity.

>>77646950
>He's trying to say that the Anti-Monitor has always been a New God despite the constant changes inside the Orrery

Uh yeah because he's keeping the perspective within the source wall of this universe. Us viewing it from the outside KNOW that's a retcon and that the universe used to be different.

>>77646954
>The main reason that failed was because DC wanted to do a Earth 2 Batman ongoing with Tim Taylor, which enraged Robinson so much that he left.

That was sad, but what destroyed Earth 2 beyond repair was the fact that the next creative teams treated it as a tower of blocks they could knock over for fun and no one would care because it's not the "real" universe.

Robinson cared. But other than Johns, name me one other writer that DC employs that would care about the characters and their golden age legacies.

>>77647029

Atomic Knights batman was pretty cool.

>>77647029
I would read a JLA with this roster

>>77646895
It's Multiversity Too.

>>77647036

>Uh yeah because he's keeping the perspective within the source wall of this universe. Us viewing it from the outside KNOW that's a retcon and that the universe used to be different.

You didn't understand me. The Anti-Monitor wasn't a New God. He wasn't a New God before Crisis on Infinite Earths, before Zero Hour, before Infinite Crisis and so on. But Geoff Johns want us to believe that he was. He's creating a mess. He's not following on anything set up by previous writers. He's not respecting what has been established. He's not follwing what was set up by The Multiversity. He's just retconning willy-nilly.

He's doing a Bendis instead of a Morrison.

>>77647036
Putting aside Morrison, there have been some good New 52 runs. It's just a matter of not letting people like Finch or Wilson onto these projects.

Let DC advertise them as a way for artists to put out their own ideas, without editorial forcing their hand as much.

>>77647073
Yeah, some Batmans are interesting in that regard. An Atomic Knights book would certainly be interesting.

>>77646800
>A universe where Thought Robot Failed
>A universe where Miracle Machine Failed

They have a place like that on the map.
Its Apokalips

>>77647131
>Superman, the Flash, Green Lantern and Bruce, Dick, Earth-2 Thomas and James Gordon face off against the Joker

>>77647131
>>77647259

I long for a parody universe where all superheroes are Batman.

>>77647246
>Finch
Now I'm triggered. How can the Finches still be on Wonder Woman?

>>77647175
He was always Benis desu senpai
>Hal Jordan is better than all of the other Lanterns because he is my husbando
baka

>>77610593
I dunno man, I started believing maybe we're pulling these ideas from somewhere, a chuck of them anyway. I wasn't the only one, I found out, many other writers and artists believe the same.

Then again I believe other things, like, what if you really can change the past and it's changing our memories of it as well. Like, you could've been a black guy and not know.

>>77647286
>DC makes a new monthly
>The Batman League

Hell, I'd read it.

>>77647380
My theory is that while everybody likes Wonder Woman as a symbol, nobody actually knows how to write her.

Azarello got by okay because he focused on the Clash of the Titans elements (unique Greek gods, etc). Unfortunately, most other authors can't really think of how to write Wonder Woman well, because when you think about it she was written by a guy with a bondage fetish. So it's like you're trying to write what used to be fap bait into something empowering.

>>77646568
Who would you trust the keys to the multiverse to?

>Justice Incarnate series where Calvin Ellis and friends bop around the multiverse helping people

Oh god, I want this so bad.

The evil organization THE MAN of that sixties Earth headed by evil CEO Lex Luthor wants to invade other universes and secure crooked contracts to their resources so they can bypass Prez's new legislation.

The pirate universe is still around. A cadre of 1920's flavored bad guys start to form a legion of doom to oppose Justice Incarnate. Doom Incarnate? They have no long term plan besides loot and plunder for shits and giggles.

Bad guys on a world where all the heroes are dead/defeated suddenly find themselves mocked and frustrated by an unkillable blue 5D imp who slowly convinces them to turn into good guys. Its revealed in the end that this is an evolved form of Captain Atom, who was inspired by a trip to Zoo Crew Earth where he saw them defeat a threat peacefully through the power of comedy.

War breaks out between two cynical universes. Justice Incarnate sends in Thunderworld or another optimistic universe to act as peace negotiators.

Ultraa is finally saved through using Earth-Q as a sympathetic magick totem. It actually turns into a good version of Ne Bu La and heals Ultraa. Empty Hand gets BTFO.

>>77647516

The new digital ongoing is treating Wonder Woman and the amazons pretty well and have a set up that i found extremely inteligent. I don't know no writer have thought of it before.

The Greek Gods created the Paradise Island as a refuge to escape from Darkseid. That's why they didn't show up anymore before the appearance of Wonder Woman. The island is a refuge for them and all the wondrous creatures of the Greek Myths.

That's really neat and i'm actually kinda mad about no writer thinking of that way out before.

>>77647606
>Ultraa is finally saved through using Earth-Q as a sympathetic magick totem. It actually turns into a good version of Ne Bu La and heals Ultraa. Empty Hand gets BTFO.

Thanks Morrison for making sentences like these possible.

>>77647516
>because when you think about it she was written by a guy with a bondage fetish.
You better not be talking shit about Marston's symbolism. She's steeped in a lot more than just bondage.

>>77647516
Kryptonian Batman Bryce-Way. In this universe Way replaced El. Is 100% happy go lucky businessman Bruce Wayne who owns the Daily Planet. Fights in his suit.

Batman Batman

Amazonian Batman. Creepy chick glad in all-black armor. Daughter of Hades and Artemis.

Yellow Lantern Batman. A psychiatrist for Arkham Asylum. Creepiest of the Batmen

Aqua Batman. A good version of Black Manta. Exhiled Atlantean prince. His company Waynetech makes his suit and gizmos. Think of him as a good guy pirate. He polices the entire world through his secret underwater Manta Cave.

Martian Batman. Using the identity Matches Malone. Has an obsession with fire because he fears it above all things and thus seeks to make it his strength. The most anti-social of the Batmen. Trusts completely in his young friend Tim Drake, who discovered his identity through detective skills.

Wondertwins Stephanie Brown and Cassandra Cain. Ace is Wonder Mutt.


Now I want to see an all Batman villains Legion of Doom.

>>77647979
Oh, forgot

Flash Batman. World's greatest detective. Uses his speed powers to see into the past of crime scenes

>>77647979
>Wondertwins Stephanie Brown and Cassandra Cain.
You went full retard

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>step out of the Hypercrisis thread to run some groceries and grab dinner
>this happens

FUCK, IT'S FOLLOWING ME NOW

>>77649008
>Getting a Five Guys regular cheeseburger
>Not even just a small cheeseburger

Enjoy your peanuts and your heart disease.

>>77649008
grody ass finger nails get out

>>77649041

Hey I just got my paycheck this weekend and wanted to treat myself. Who are you, my mom?

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>>77647606
>Bad guys on a world where all the heroes are dead/defeated suddenly find themselves mocked and frustrated by an unkillable blue 5D imp who slowly convinces them to turn into good guys. Its revealed in the end that this is an evolved form of Captain Atom, who was inspired by a trip to Zoo Crew Earth where he saw them defeat a threat peacefully through the power of comedy.
I really want this, especially if the world is a expy of the one from wanted. cause that one universe that needs a pie to the face.

>>77649154
>This is my face when I'm throwing you a pie in the face

>>77649154

You think Millar would take it okay? Isn't there some bad blood between him and Morrison now?

>>77649305
no clue and if anything that would just make it better for me

>>77610573
>Why does Morrison like to associate comic with "Real" world?

i have this theory that morrison believes he can enter the world of comics like they "used" to in the golden and bronze age "dc heroes on earth prime adventures stuff" and the "dc staffers end up in dc comics world and have godlike power"and unlike the lonely kid who kept opening wardrobes trying to go to narnia or roaming the woods looking for some other magical realm, eventually the kid grew up and realized that he was never going to be able to open a wardrobe into narnia or just walk into and find himself in a magical land ... morrison refuses to aknowledge this. so he practices "magic" creates or collects icons and totems of magic trying to help him achieve the goal of leaving "the shadow world of reailty" and entering the "real world aka comics" and his acknowledged drug use is not for his creativity but to help him cope with his "Failure to escape this reality" and to help him silence that voice inside himself that says he can never leave this world.

>>77614538

This one needs to be amended, since post-Secret Wars, it's still called Earth 616 and not Earth 8; that was just a bit of confusion in the fan community that got picked up on without confirmation.

>>77649745
>Battleworld was so important that not even the number of universes changed

so here's the Shin Mazinger ZERO thread I mentioned earlier, >>>13525863

>>77650988
crap, how do you link threads from other boards again?

meantime have a full link; >>>/m/13525863

>>77651028
well looks like I answered myself there by accident, I feel really silly now

>The main bad guy of Shin Mazinger Zero is OP against Mazingers

>So they summon mechas from other series

This is eerily like Multiversity where the gentry could BTFO "decayed' settings but couldn't win against hopeful settings like Thunderworld, so the multiverse gets saved by everyone coming together.

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>>77651028
>Gipsy Danger

>>77651028
I came when I saw Gipsy

I'm really annoyed that the ending of Nameless got delayed again.

>>77647247
Thought robot and Miracle.machine is above that possibility,aren't they?
As long as Mandrakk or Empty hand is metafictional enemy from outside of comics, Losing to them means anihilation of entire DC cosmos.

>>77656418
>Thought robot and Miracle.machine is above that possibility,aren't they?

yeah that's what I was thinking too

>>77655334
You and me both. I'm dying to know if Morrison is really going to run BAD END, BAD END FOREVER.

So far it seems like what if the Outer Church killed all the Invisible Cells and nothing was left to defend the world.

Also, was I the only one that caught the reference to Universe-B? Nameless is connected to The Invisibles, which is connected to DC, which gives fuel to the idea that the monsters in Nameless are another form of The Gentry.

People are asking what would it have looked like if the heroes lost Final Crisis or Multiversity, and I think we're going to see in Nameless.

>>77656784
I don't think heroes can lose a battle like that

>>77656858
They can if they surrender their name and identity, thus losing all power to resist despair

>>77656858
>I don't think heroes can lose a battle like that

The heroes of DC main can't. They have Superman. It's what he does.

Nothing to say another reality couldn't. *cough* marvel *cough*

>>77656784
>Also, was I the only one that caught the reference to Universe-B?

I think it's meant to imply that the Nameless we're currently following is from that Universe, a reality where his fellow astronauts were instead occult experts killed in the Razor House seance.

As to a story where the Outer Church won, I think that was best exemplified with The Filth; a cadre of outlandish and highly unpleasant agents of order with Invisible Cells actually being the bonarife bad guys in that context.

>>77655334

But why? ;_;

>>77658243
Morrison's been relatively busy, I guess. What with the magazine job, Klaus, Wonder Woman: Earth One, Batman: Black and White, and Multiversity Too.

But it's likely to do with Burnham since Grant writes relatively fast.

Will Nix ever meet up with Weeja Dell again, i just want him to be happy

>>77658420
It is certainly Burnham's fault
Also, his New X-men tie in went from starting pretty great with awful art to ending being a total shitfest with the same awful art

>>77649681
Nah, Morrison uses comics as a medium to practise his ideas for making THIS world a better place. What he's doing with comics now is what spiritual book writers have done for ages. The stories of Jesus, Moses, etc. The 'ancient Supermen'.

>>77613981
>>77639879
>tfw you posted the original chart
Fan made.

>>77658894
Superman did wish a happy ending for everyone, so I suppose eventually they will.

>>77659865
>Superman wishes for happy ending
>Bruce returns
>Barry returns
>White Lantern energy revives multiple heroes
>Barry ruins everything with Flashpoint

>>77659990
>Because he lost his mom, now Superman has to lose his parents
Thanks Barry

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>>77659990
>>77659990

fuck you, flash. Stop ruining things.