Batman Incorporated was a terrible Idea

You are wrong.

>>77588673
>Johnsfags

it was was fucking rad.

>>77588738
>>77588786
>Bruce Wayne is financing all bat-related operations now, but he's totally not Batman you guys
>this isn't retarded
[Spoiler]fucking morrisonfags[/spoiler]

It's an evolution of an existing idea like all of Morrison's run, in this case Batmen of All Nations.

>>77588837
>so new he can't even spoiler
faggot Snyderfag

>>77588738
Entire idea is retarded.
One, corporations aren't charities. If Bruce Wayne would come out in reality saying he had been using company funds for financing Batman behind shareholders backs for years, he would be arrested for misappropriation of company funds, not applauded.

Two, everything related to Internet 3.0 was the stupidest thing I have ever read inside a comic book, especially since it came right after Battle for the Cowl: Oracle miniseries that was actually relatively well researched about how hacking works.

Three, why? Why do it? Batman already has a team with the Outsiders, and allies all over the world with Justice League. And superpowered heroes are much cheaper to support than non-powered heroes.

Fourth, distribution. How come USA gets THREE Batmen - Man of Bats, Bruce Wayne Batman and Dick Grayson Batman, not even counting Red Robin and the Outsiders - but entire CONTINENT of Africa gets single David Zavimbe? One Batwing per one BILLION people, in a land stricken by poverty, wars and terrorism? Are you fucking KIDDING me?

And nail in the coffin - the only good Batman Inc. stories were the ones with Bruce Wayne in them and other "Batmen" being simply bonus extras, making entire thing pretty much pointless.

>>77589169
Those are shallow reasons for disliking it.

>>77588857
>>77588786
I love how when you dislike a thing Grant Morrisson made, his rabid fanboys immediately accuse you of being a rabid fanboy. That's beatiful example of psychological projection and dramatic irony.

Also "Snyderfag" argument doesn't even make sense because Batman Inc. is still canon in Snyder's run.

>>77589270
>That's beatiful example of psychological projection and dramatic irony.

Look who's talking.

>Hating Batman Inc.
>Thinking your opinion matters

File: 16372674635.png (780KB, 1024x494px) Image search: [Google]

780KB, 1024x494px

>>77588837
>Hurr Durr how unrealistic people can't figure out his secret identity
Fuck off Gentry.

>>77589246
What's shallow about it?

Batman Incorporated tries to be this international thriller with political and spy intrigue in it, with nazi superspies and international conspiracies, but this genre needs to be grounded in reality, dammit. Bond movies are more believable.

>>77589319
>but this genre needs to be grounded in reality, dammit.

Now you're just bullshitting your way through this.

>>77589319
i guess the series with the 10 year old ninja and the man who comes back to life from being dropped in a pool needs realism, right?

>>77589276
What do you mean? First, resorting to namecalling to defend a comic you like is rabid fanboyism, so I was simply describing what they have done.

Second, I'm not a rabid fanboy of anyone (I like most Batman writers, I even like most of the Batman stuff Morrisson has written, just not the Inc.) so I can't project fanboyism that doesn't exist, onto others.

>>77588673

Not using contraception on the night of your conception was an equally terrible idea.

>>77589386
>What do you mean?

You know what I mean.

>>77589359
I'm not talking about realism, I'm talking about suspension of disbelief. Batman Inc. tries to blend serious elements with absolutely ridiculous ones. How am I supposed to treat dramatic twists and nazi superspies seriously when Oracle has a virtual motorcycle with guns that shoot internet?
This kinda stuff takes me right out of the story, it would be ridiculous even in a regular Batman story, but it tries to be darker than average Batman story. That creates dissonance and makes it so I can't read Inc. without cringing constantly. It'd be okay if it was more of a action-comedy, but it isn't.

"Grayson" for example does it right, because the book is very cheesy, but it's also pretty silly.

>>77589319
> this genre needs to be grounded in reality, dammit

Why start now

>>77589465
So you hate that the ridiculous things are presented completely straight and not as wacky jokes?

>>77589480
Pretty much, yeah, that's my biggest gripe with the book.
And make no mistake, I generally think that Morrison's era as a Batman writer was a good thing all in all, we've gotten some gems like Battle for the Cowl or Return of the Bruce Wayne out of it, and we'd never get Whatever Happened to Caped Crusader without him.

I just dislike concept, and the actual book, of Batman Incorporated.

>>77589467
Because genre was changed. Batman is usually a superhero book so it can afford to be super rididculous. But Inc. isn't really a superhero book, it's a thriller with Batman taking down a terrorist group.

>>77589465
>How am I supposed to treat dramatic twists and nazi superspies seriously when Oracle has a virtual motorcycle with guns that shoot internet?

By not being an autistic retard. These are not mutually exclusive things.

File: 1397851125943.png (267KB, 320x446px) Image search: [Google]

267KB, 320x446px

>>77589169
>If Bruce Wayne would come out in reality saying he had been using company funds for financing Batman behind shareholders backs for years

>Batman already has a team with the Outsiders, and allies all over the world with Justice League.

These are the two main reasons why I couldn't fathom anyone taking this story seriously. There are so many 3rd rate street vigilantes and superpowered capes DC could've used for this basic premise. Why make it a whole Batman thing?

File: B-back that ass up.gif (3MB, 389x219px) Image search: [Google]

3MB, 389x219px

>>77588673
In general most of Morrison's Batman ideas are terrible, but because he is who he is, he makes the execution work. Damian's existence and how he was born, the idea of an international group of Batman publicly funded by Bruce Wayne, Dick being Batman when he literally never wanted the job for decades worth of stories, Ninja Manbats, Batman "killing" Darkseid, Batman traveling through time and essentially creating his origins, the concept of Spyral, Talia becoming this ultimate evil, it's all really stupid on paper.

The problem is when the other writers use his ideas. Frankly, Damian, Batman Inc, Leviathan, etc, none of that should have survived the reboot.

>>77589515
Branding.

And that's both the in-universe canon and real life sales/marketing answer

>>77589548
Honestly I think they should've waited till Morrison and Johns finished their Batman and Green Lantern stuff then rebooted.

Wow, what a faggot you are OP.

And yes, as others have said, you are wrong.

File: 40993.jpg (27KB, 526x394px) Image search: [Google]

27KB, 526x394px

>>77589513
>But Inc. isn't really a superhero book, it's a thriller with Batman taking down a terrorist group.

While fighting supervillains, recruiting people to join his superhero army across the globe, featuring bat-robot drones, clones, brainwashing cults, mind bending nazi traps... Just because it has espionage elements does not make it not be a cape book.

>>77589564
That would make a lot of sense, but in practical terms, the juggernaut of DC comics, DC Entertainment and Time Warner can never be beholden to individual employees, or single products. That's just not the ethos they have

>>77589567
How? Other than it was written by Grant Morrison so it must be a masterpiece

>>77588837
He finances a guy so what? Superheroes and groups sometimes have normal people behind them.

>>77588837
Psst, ctrl+s spoilers stuff for you.

>>77588837
It actually works to dispel the theory that Bruce is Batman, because it explains where Batman has been getting all his shit, and why would Wayne admit to this if he actually were Batman?

>>77589465
I think the MCU is a bit more up your alley.

>>77590846
They literally don't though. Not in DCU. In Marvel it would be nothing new with Alpha Flight and Stark Industries, but as far as I know this is first superhero initiative like that in entire DCU.

Batman Inc was awesome until meta-commentary bullshit

>>77590864
Where's the ctrl button on my phone?

>>77588846
Do you think the people who complain read these comics?
>>77589169
It's a silver agesque run of course is retarded, I prefer a retarded fun book to a cringe realistic book as all batbook since the 80s.

>>77591052
"Cringe realistic book"? It's pretty clear that you don't actually read Batman, making your first comment pretty funny.

Also I know that it's extension of Batmen of All Nations, I even know why Batmen of All Nations existed - DC was testing waters for making a superhero team book, with Superman, Batman and the other Batmen. Since this was the Fifties and superheros weren't popular, feedback wasn't as good as they hoped so idea was shelved and never brought up before until Morrison dug it out in 2000s.
Doesn't make it any less stupid.

File: bathombre.jpg (64KB, 700x620px) Image search: [Google]

64KB, 700x620px

>There will never be a Batman Inc story of Bruce talking down Bat Hombre for his drunken Mexican parties

I liked the idea of Batman recruiting a team across the world, but the whole public announcement of it kinda ruins the mystique of Batman. It makes him seem like a normal dude. Id rather have him start recruiting from the shadows. Crimals would start pissing their pants if it seemed that Batman could be in multiple continents at once.

Im embarrassed to say Batman Inc turned me off so much i dropped the run while binge reading some months ago. I still loved the first half though.

>>77588673

Very Silver Age.

The relaunch fucked things up and now I don't know what was what.

Bruce gets omega-sanctioned, travels through time, is brought back by Supes at al. Bats goes to help with the last stretch of the fight against Simon Hurt and his people, then immediately after he announces Batman Inc. Turns out he's building an army to fight "something" he saw while time travelling.

Then the reboot happens and all he ever mentions about his vision (which now happened in a cave, because apparently Final Crisis no longer took place?) was that he saw "two headstones" and "the world on fire". That was all his vision... the future Damian issue didn't even seem to be Bruce's vision, but what Damian imagined might end up happening.

And I don't know why I felt the ending was a bit of a cop out, even when the entire series, each of its "episodes", ended with the same "BATMAN (and Robin) WILL NEVER DIE" message being hammered. I guess I was expecting something even more grandiose for the conclusion to a seven-ish year long story? idk.

>>77591273
Future Damian issue was always meant to be only one of possible futures.

>>77589319
>needs to be grounded in reality

>comic books
>capeshit
>Batgod
>written by Grant Morrison
>"needs to be grounded in reality"

OP is a confirmed retard.

>>77588673
Millar pls

What do you expect from Grant Morrison. Guy can't write Batman to save his life.

>>77589513
>some gems like Battle for the Cowl
>gems
>Battle for the Cowl
You best be trolling.

Batman literally goes on the internet to spread disinformation about Batman being Bruce Wayne by trolling people saying Bruce Wayne is Batman after this.

And then people call him retarded and tell him he just funds Batman.

This is canon.

>>77589169
>Fourth, distribution. How come USA gets THREE Batmen - Man of Bats, Bruce Wayne Batman and Dick Grayson Batman, not even counting Red Robin and the Outsiders - but entire CONTINENT of Africa gets single David Zavimbe? One Batwing per one BILLION people, in a land stricken by poverty, wars and terrorism? Are you fucking KIDDING me?

Man of bats was batman for the country side of mexico, murrika and canada, dick was the batman of gotham and bruce the batman of the WORLD

>>77589270
>I love how when you dislike a thing Grant Morrisson made, his rabid fanboys immediately accuse you of being a rabid fanboy.

In /co/ its pretty easy to spot Johnsfags, they get mad when people don't prise Johns, and say nice things about gaiman, morrison, or even people like hickman.

>>77589319
>but this genre needs to be grounded in reality

>>77589515
>>77589515
>>If Bruce Wayne would come out in reality saying he had been using company funds for financing Batman behind shareholders backs for years
He was using his money to pay for JL, titans, outsiders and bat-family.mHe never used company money, with inc he Openly invites others m(his investors) to do the same

>>77589169
>And nail in the coffin - the only good Batman Inc. stories were the ones with Bruce Wayne in them and other "Batmen" being simply bonus extras, making entire thing pretty much pointless.

/thread

>>77592328
I'm a Johnsfag, I love Gaiman and what I've read from Morrison. Don't generalize, shithead.

>>77588673
More like Batman and the Redshirts

The ending is what seals the deal
>BOO HOO, BATMAN CAN'T GROW UP AND CAN'T DEAL WITH TERRORISTS

Eat a dick Morrison. I know the big bad publishers that sign your 5 and 6 digit cheks and royalties won't allow you to make Batman fight super gorillas in space for the rest of your life but consistency is a thing you know?
You wrote Batman as being able to take down the Devil and the only human capable of mortally wounding THE GOD OF ALL EVIL and that's how you end your run?
>Hey guys! Here's a bitch you never cared about that i retconned out of limbo to end all this and to be META because that's what im all about.
>See how evil publishers are that only want the same formula again and again. Now where are my royalty checks? Daddy need more meth.

>>77589270
It's like Bowie fans on /mu/.

>>77591273
>>77592679
They chopped the legs off of his run as he was heading towards the home stretch. It's one of the biggest casualties of the new 52, and if you don't think Morrison has a right to be bitter after not being able to put a proper stamp on seven years of work then you are letting your hatred of him cloud your judgment.

>>77588837
>>77589169
>>77589319
>>77589515
>Being this pedantic about a run whose whole thesis was embracing the brighter and wackier aspects of Batman's history and comic books in general

>>77593222
It still sucks.

>>77593366
Your mom sucks

>>77593379
Well, that's something my mother and Batman Inc have in common.

>>77593366
But you're wrong.

>>77591013
Legion of Super-Heroes always always have RJ Brande.

And someone was funding the JL in the early 90s, I remember Wally talking about living off those checks.

>>77593497
almost always*

damn fingers

>>77592598
He was trolling, most Johns fans know he and Grant are buddies and wouldn't put them at war with each other (especially given that they are both in on the hypercrisis).

>>77593366
Nah it doesn't. It added fresh blood to the concept of Batman by expertly reincorporating aspects of his history. There were practically countless unique stories that could have been told in Batman Inc. Instead we are back to the same cycle of retreading well worn territory in the Batman mythos for the umpteenth time.

>>77589310
There's literally a page addressing this exact thing in Inc (or the Road Home can't remember).

What was ouroboros? Just a macguffin energy source?

File: batman of japan.jpg (38KB, 502x640px) Image search: [Google]

38KB, 502x640px

>Not liking Kamen Rider Batman #2

>>77589515
To make more Batman toys

>>77591273
The run coulda ended after Batman and Robin/Return of Bruce Wayne.

>>77593777
I'm due for a reread but I'm pretty sure it was being set up for use at the end of the run and the reboot fucked it up.

>>77588673

The idea could have been something, but they didn't actually do anything with it. Bat.Inc very quickly devolved into just Bruce vs. Talia featuring Damian, with all other characters reduced to little more than cameos.

Also Bruce Wayne would be sued straight into poverty if he had actually admitted that he has been funding an illegal vigilante.

File: LoGNXOh.gif (137KB, 500x281px) Image search: [Google]

137KB, 500x281px

>>77588673
Eh, I thought it was just kinda naff. It had some good stories, though, and I think that makes up for it.

>>77589169
>Fourth, distribution. How come USA gets THREE Batmen - Man of Bats, Bruce Wayne Batman and Dick Grayson Batman, not even counting Red Robin and the Outsiders - but entire CONTINENT of Africa gets single David Zavimbe? One Batwing per one BILLION people, in a land stricken by poverty, wars and terrorism? Are you fucking KIDDING me?

Billions of people to protect just means billions of odds to overcome.
I mean, he gave up the role in the end, but IN THEORY he could have overcome them.

I'm just gonna assume OP is a dumbass that didn't read The Black Glove or The Black Casebook.

>>77588786
It can be a terrible idea and still be executed well.

And if you ask me, the concept at the outset is pretty goofy.

>>77594052
You're exactly who Morrison was making fun of with the ending. Batman is a superhero, he doesn't need to be realistic and grounded.

>>77594087
Ever heard the phrase "false dichotomy"?

Did I say it has to grounded in reality? No (it's a superhero comic, that's a fool's errand).
Does that mean I like Batman Inc.'s particular goofiness? No.

If it wasn't a big, almost excessively established character's story I would have enjoyed it a lot more--I would have found it a lot more interesting.

>>77591261
I thought of it as Golden Age, especially after they played with it in Brave and the Bold.

The "well of course" inclusion of "Joker Equivalents" was also funny. I think I especially liked "Eskimo Joker".

>>77594426
Well idk how many times this has to be brought up in these threads but not EVERY story has to be new reader friendly.

A writer can write a story for people who have been long time readers. Saying that you didn't like it cause it used too many established characters is a valid reason for not liking it, but not for saying it's bad or overcomplicated.

>>77589169
>he would be arrested for misappropriation of company funds, not applauded.
Yeah, if it was a public company - instead of private - where Bruce Wayne didn't hold majority shares.

>>77594426
You mean excessively established like El Gaucho? Or Man-of-Bats? Or Batwing? Or Nightrunner? Should I keep going?

>>77594535
It doesn't have jack to do with new readers, it's about shackling stories to overused, bled-dry iconography.

>>77594663
>almost excessively established character's story
>character's
That's *one* character, friend.

See: >>77594693
It would have been a hundred times more interesting and fun to read for me if it wasn't a Batman™ story. The same settings with everything being a permutation of the same dozen characters--it's stifling.

>>77594693
Do you not see that Morrison was trying to redefine and revitalize the "bled-dry iconography"?

>>77589513
>Battle for the Cowl
>gem
You need to stop

>>77594745
Are you too dense to realize that Batman Inc. created a virtually limitless playground to create new characters and stories?

>>77588673
I hate that Spyral shut it down.

>>77594693
You seem to be fundamentally confused about what Batman stories are suppose to be about. It's all about the symbol.

>>77594788
>>77594753

All bolted onto the side of an established character and setting. That's not good--that's baggage for everybody.

And if you want to revitalize it, you don't have side stories and characters that'll just end up fodder for another big "we broke the setting again" event, you just leave it the fuck alone for a while and only write stories for them when it makes sense--except you *can't*, because Marvel and DC have their big bloated shared universes. Everything happens to everybody, implicitly if not explicitly--and other things seem to for some reason happen in a total vacuum, which is a dozen times worse.

>>77594891
The point was: why make this a Batman story? Why throw everything onto the same dozen characters and cram it all into the same setting? Why march inexorably toward another banner-wide retcon once shit starts shorting out again?

>>77595057
Because it was a great stand alone run? Jesus man you won't enjoy any cape comics if you think like that. It all gets retconned or rebooted eventually. Enjoy the ride.

>>77595057

It's inherently a batman story, the entire concept is rooted in his history, created by his original creator. What the fuck are you even talking about?

>>77595057
What the fuck are you even talking about? You're contradicting yourself like crazy. You want new characters but they specifically can't be related to Batman because they will get retconned once "shit starts shorting out again" (whatever the fuck that means)? Inc. carved out a whole new corner of the Batman and DC universe for writers to go absolutely nuts in, the characters weren't beholden to Batman in any way aside from maybe having met him a few times and having a Bat related name.

>>77595200
>his original creator
you best be talkin' about Finger

>>77595291

yes?

File: ayyyyyyyy.jpg (323KB, 1600x979px) Image search: [Google]

323KB, 1600x979px

>>77595311

>>77588673
I agree

File: batman-the-return-0161.jpg (1MB, 1234x1464px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 1234x1464px

>this was stupidest ever idea i have ever read in comics

>>77595057
Also how the fuck can you argue that characters related to Batman would get retconned out of existence faster than new powerless characters that have no affiliation to anyone in the DCU?

>>77595413
>Inplying that won't be real in like 40 years, if not less

Keep up geezer. PlayStation and PC get virtual reality next year.

>>77595413
I think the execution was not great but the idea itself is pretty awesome. Oracle getting to be the Batgirl of a virtual reality internet is pretty inspired.

>>77593673
the one where he shitposted on the internet so no one would believe it?

>>77589310
>Any criticism is invalid because you're just trying to harsh my buzz, man

>>77595533
>complaining about a lack of realism in cape comics

>>77595533
>I'm gonna be butthurt that comics don't adhere to the strict rules of reality and then call people who realize it doesn't matter drugged out hippies

How much does it suck to be you?

>>77589169
>but entire CONTINENT of Africa gets single David Zavimbe?

You didn't actually read the comic, did you?

>>77592679
Fuck off Talia was great

File: batman is everywhere.jpg (2MB, 2714x3928px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 2714x3928px

dude, I loved it

>>77595721
BerylKnight was underutilized

>>77595678
Not really.

>>77595721
Yeah if you hate this then you hate comics.

>>77588673
>Batman Incorporated
>Bat Inc.
>Bat Ink
oh ha-ha

>>77595748
>I did all this, for you, in my spare time
>That scene where she walks down into the batcave
>The ambiguity in her feelings towards Damian
>The issue with her backstory

Nope, definitely a great villain

>>77595737
Knight and Squire was legit, loved Beryl. Goddamn it makes my soul hurt remembering the infinite amount of cool ideas from this run that were erased from existence.

>>77595795
This was all volume 2 stuff, post reboot when everything was blown to shit. I'm confident enough in Morrison to believe that he had an intended ending that he couldn't follow through on.

>>77595852
Due to editorial meddling, not capability I should add.

File: bat steak.jpg (86KB, 620x349px) Image search: [Google]

86KB, 620x349px

>>77595852
vol 2 was awesome for the most part, though. Its the best Damian-centric stuff we've ever had

>>77595514
Yeah someone already brought it up in this thread but I missed it. It speaks to the level of reading comprehension these days that people still bitch about stuff that the author directly addresses in his work.

>>77594788
Yea mean more redundant bat-people?

>>77595413
Just give her fucking robot legs if your that desperate to get her back in the cowl

>>77596000
I love the whole run but have a hard time going back to vol 2 of Batman Inc. The brilliance in that panel is overshadowed by Dick being a red Nightwing and Tim wearing those fucking feathers. The whole run was a celebration of history, continuity, legacy, and moving forward with a positive outlook and it got mercilessly crippled for a quick buck by the powers that be just as it was about to cross the finish line. It bums me out hard.

>>77596085
Has anyone got the bit where its Titus, Alfred and Batcow all cuddled up in the hey? Its kawaii as fuck

File: bat family extended.jpg (3MB, 2083x4061px) Image search: [Google]

3MB, 2083x4061px

>>77596113
BATMEN OF ALL NATIONS

>>77596197
Poor Flamebird

>>77596113
New takes on the Batman mythos through an international lens is way less redundant than Bruce fighting the Joker again for the umpteenth time

>>77595737
Squire and knight in general was underutilized.

>>77596197
Jesus that is a glorious sight to behold. What could have been.

Batman Incorporated was 'batgod' done well.
>Nuanced parallels to New Gods with the whole "5th World" concept
>Stays true to Batman's origins as a street-level character
>Hiring a bunch of contractors- building Batman Inc.- is more plausible way for Bruce Wayne, a businessman, to rise up against constantly escalating threats.

Meanwhile in Darkseid Wars
>Give Batman the Mobius Chair
>Batgod
>Lazy tie-ins that try to force New God parallels to the other League members, aside from Flash and death/Black Racer. That's been an established concept since forever.

>>77596256
Cornell's miniseries is fantastic if you haven't checked it out yet

File: absence.jpg (198KB, 1086x754px) Image search: [Google]

198KB, 1086x754px

Really wish they ran with Dick as the street-level Gotham-based Batman and Bruce as the Global Batgod for longer. I absolutely love the Absence B&R story. It really nails the Dick/Damian dynamic and the weird place those two had in Batman Inc

>>77589169
1. Oh no, how dare Bruce Wayne spend Bruce Wayne's Money. Bruce Wayne should have Bruce Wayne arrested for spending Bruce Wayne's Money. It's not a public company.

2. I'll give you this one. You really get the feeling reading those issues Grant doesn't spend a ton of time using computers.

3. Several reasons here. Easiest to explain is that the Outsiders are lame as fuck. Going further into it, Batman is lying. Shocker I know. Batman Inc isn't about Batman's hit squad, or about bringing a batman to every continent and country. It's about averting the things he saw while he was caused with the hyperadapter at the end of time. All of it, every part was about that. The justice league can't do that job 24/7 and that's what Bruce needs

4. America has Batman (Dick Grayson) Man of Bats is very specifically Batman of the Native American reservations. Bruce Wayne Batman was not being Americas Batman, he was globe trotting recruiting Batmen and fighting leviathan. The rest of the Bat family were either doing the same or doing their own thing.

5. For shit taste there can be no explanation.

>>77596518
Yeah, and don't forget about the all-time greatness that is the Black Mirror. Dick as Gotham's Batman was rife with possibilities and brought freshness and energy to the franchise. And now he's some dumb old secret agent.

>>77596518
B&R after Morrison was so bland though

>>77596775
I disagree man. The Absence issues were balls-to-wall crazy shit. It only really got bland when Tomasi took over, but even then that had neat father/son stuff and Gleason art.

>>77596775
It wasn't Morrison's Batman and Robin, but it kept the energy from his run going. Simply having Dick and Damian in the roles made the run-of-the-mill crime fighting stories much more interesting.

>>77594467
Do you possibly not know what the Golden Age is?

This is what really influenced Morrison

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bnu2XMplBWU

>>77596165
>can't rehabilitate Barbara cause' his spine
>Damian had spinal reconstruction because fuck you, that's why.

Disgusting.

>>77596197
So many red shirts

>>77596232
There was already a multinational failed group of batman hanger ons.

The Outsiders

>>77596271
Really?

Batman as Orion never made an ounce of sense

>>77597277
Yeah this group of multinational heroes is totally just like that other group of multinational heroes so no one should ever try to do another multinational group of heroes centered around Batman! Even though one is more powers based and one is more Batman-esque!

File: bat comfy.jpg (119KB, 600x759px) Image search: [Google]

119KB, 600x759px

>>77596181

>>77597343
Kek are you retarded? He was Orion's human host. Did you even read Final Crisis?

>>77598752
>>77597343
Damian is Orion

>>77598807
No. That's wrong. Read Final Crisis.

Batman Inc was pretty awesome. I really wish there were a series focused on Nightrunner though. He had an interesting story and set of villains.

Also am I the only one who really liked B&R White Knight's Arc?

>>77598752
>>77598807
>>77598922
The IDEA of Batman is Orion, not a specific Batman (Bruce/Dick/Damian all take on the mantle and Orion qualities)

>>77600222
No. In Final Crisis each New God inhabits a human host. Orion inhabited Batman as his human host to defeat Darkseid.

>>77600271
No.
The gods of New Genesis died.

The superheroes of Earth are the fifth world successors, but they're not inhabited by the fourth world.

The Apokolips gods did possess people.

>>77596197
Is that Aztek?

>>77598677
Thank you!

>>77600364
Batztek

>>77600302
The Gods of New Genesis possessed people as well. The New Gods were reborn on Earth. Reread it. There is subtext all over the place.

>>77600302
Orion didn't die. He inhabited Batman. He's the only New God that made it to Earth. Darkseid is talking to Orion when Batman shoots him, not Batman.

>>77600423
No.

Fifth World has different gods of similar archetypes.

The Superyoung team is the Forever People, but Most Excellent Superbats isn't Mark Moonrider

>>77600481
Yeah all except Orion cause he made it to Earth and inhabited Batman to take down Darkseid. Go into a hyper crisis thread sometime.

>>77591273
Final Crisis still is canon, somehow.

>>77600570
I have never seen this argument made.

Do you have pages?

>>77600605
I would if I was at home. Just go into the next Hypercrisis thread. Like I said there is subtext all over the place. That's a core aspect of the story is Darkseid is heart broken that his son is out to kill him. He even says so at the end before Batman shoots him.

>>77600481
You gotta be kidding man. How long ago did you read this? We meet like 3 New Gods human host. Hell the one even says he's Mr. Miracle.

>>77600779
Did you not read Seven Soldiers?

Shilo is purely human, not Scott at all.

>>77600806
Maybe then but during Final Crisis he says he is Mr. Miracle.

>>77600850
His name is Mr. Miracle, but he's not Scott Free, or a God.

He has Scott's motherbox and costume.

Inc. wouldn't work for a few reasons:

1) Wayne Enterprises is a publicly held company. Using company funds to fund an illegal vigilante for years would immediately trigger multitudes of legal paperwork. Bruce would be expelled from the board and likely find himself on the end of several lawsuits from the company and from other companies/private individuals who would claim they had been legally damaged by Batman.

2) Both the Police and Feds would take interest. (Likely immediately arresting Bruce)

3)His assets would likely be frozen and audited. So no tech or spare equipment for a long while.

I can't believe editorial let the Inc. go to print. It was a dumb idea then and it's a dumb idea now.

>>77593912
His stories after his introduction were ass. Such a waste of good character design.

>>77601118
Stop being a fucking autist and putting real world constraints on a fictional superhero comic you colossal faggot.

Batman is not about muh realism regardless of what the movies made you think.

>>77595678
Talia didn't ruin it.

Kathy Kane ruined it.

>>77601118

>believing batman starts being unrealistic when inc. comes into the picture

kek

>>77601330
Nah thematically it worked, And thank fuck Seeley/King noticed what Morrison was doing and decided to do their book

>>77601118
I bet you also ask why the crab sings

I liked bits and pieces of Morrison's run, but I never liked the Inc idea. I've never liked the idea of a big Batfamily in general, though.

>>77601152
>>77601351
>>77601385

>All this massive anal devastation.

Let's be real, Morrison could easily have written it better. All he had to do was say that Bruce was funding Inc. with his own private fortune.

Remember Bruce is supposed to be one of if not THE most wealthy man in the world. The billions he has would easily handle a full legion of Batmen.

Having it go public was just a bad writing decision.

>>77601746
>The symbolism
>Your head

Bruce had died and was reborn. He realized he wanted the public to know he was fighting injustice. It was his Magnus opus, being able to fight crime as both Bruce with the Wayne Enterprise as a tribute to his parents and fight it as Batman as a tribute to what he had built.

>>77601118
>Wayne Enterprises is a publicly held company.
Has it ever been public before Nolan?

>>77601978
Na I get it.

I also get Morrison shoehorned it in. The whole Rebirth angle could easily have been worked in. Not making a public announcement of Wayne Enterprises is funding Batman.

>>77602001
Yes, since at least the 70s

Bats had a long running story where he lost control of Wayne enterprises for a time.

If want to count the DCAU, then Wayne Ent. was also publicly held there.

>>77593777
Yeah, it's basically just there to blow up and form Inferno pits.

>>77600605

The Son and father dichotomy and never ending war were 2 of the main themes

>>77602718
Right, but Orion isn't Batman, just like Dr. Hurt isn't Darkseid.

They're new versions, not new bodies.

It was great.
Terrible idea, great execution.

>>77603270
Kek what? Dr. Hurt didn't represent Darkseid. Reread it man. You seem to be confused on a lot of aspects.

>>77603686
You reread Return of Bruce Wayne.

>>77603702
I literally just did. Hurt used blood magic and the anti life equation was piggy backing off him. Darkseid in no way shape or form possessed Hurt.

>>77593912
>Chris Burnham's Capsule Hotel of Death
>Ass

Nah bruh, we were lucky to get as much of that as we did. Although I can't say I'd have any faith in very many others in the industry to do more stories for him.

>>77603803
No, but Hurt:Darkseid::Batman:Orion

Love this run, love Morrison, love the depth of his works, love the post modernism and intertextuality, but man you Hypercrisis guys have pretty much gone full retard huh?

>>77603270
>>77603686
Hurt was ALMOST Darkseid, according to the RoBW

But when Batman Inc started playing out, it seemed clear to me that Talia, or maybe Ras in the background, was the 5th World Darkseid equivalent.

I mean, Leviathan is clearly Anti-life.
And all that high drama war over Gotham seemed to parallel Orion duking it out with Darkseid in the Armagetto.

Can someone post some Hypercrisis pics concerning Batman and Orion?

>>77604157

Just stop anon. Don't post anymore unless it contains textual evidence

>>77604613
>Hurt was almost Darkseid
"Darkseid trying to incarnate... in Hurt... in the doctor."

>Batman Inc was a parallel to Orion vs Darkseid
That's my interpretation. I don't have to cite sources.
As far as Leviathan, how about you read the comic and tell me that it isn't equivalent to the Anti-life equation.

File: 645.jpg (28KB, 350x392px) Image search: [Google]

28KB, 350x392px

>>77604746
>That's my interpretation. I don't have to cite sources.

>>77604746
I'm pretty well versed in the Hypercrisis, and I never inferred that Orion was supposed to be Batman. The father/son dichotomy makes sense, and Hurt as Darkseid definitely has some merit to it, but I'm drawing a blank for anything that points to Orion being reincarnated in Batman aside from that.

File: Batman-is-Orion-is-Batman-is-Orion-is...jpg (317KB, 450x673px) Image search: [Google]

317KB, 450x673px

>>77605045
Really?

>>77605045
>pretty well versed in Morrison-circlejerk threads
>expects a literal reincarnation
Come on, man. It's a narrative story thing that is incarnate in Batman.
>Final Crisis is all about Narratives
>New Gods are dead
>Darkseid and his friends are incarnating in humans
>DC heroes have to fill the gap and be proxy New Gods
>intentionally making a fuss about symbols, and ending the book with Batman in the past with the New Genesis sun symbol.

As far as Hurt, that was a line Morrison wrote into it, that Bruce believed that Darkseid was trying to incarnate in him like he did with Turpin in FC and that club owner before him.

I was drawing a debatable parallel between
Talia and Darkseid.

>>77605029
Either read batman inc or fuck off. I'm not spoon-feeding you every detail about Leviathan from the comic.
>orphanages
>mind control and conditioning
>conformity, mind control, pain, devaluing of human life, almost literally "die for leviathan"
>the stephanie brown issue was essentially 'grannie goodness and the female furies'.

>arguing about a comic you refuse to read.jpg

>>77605314
Forgot about that one. Didn't think Morrison could blow my mind anymore.

>>77605361
>Leviathan in Batman Inc. was doing the exact same thing as Darkseid with the missing children in Club Dark Side in the beginning of FC

File: Untitled.png (449KB, 462x443px) Image search: [Google]

449KB, 462x443px

>>77605314
>>77605399

Might as well just post the original text everyone here is stealing from:

http://www.comicvine.com/profile/geraldthesloth/blog/dc-batman-theory-massive-spoilers/51773/

>>77605361
>>the stephanie brown issue was essentially 'grannie goodness and the female furies'.
Huh, never thought of it that way

>>77605361
I didn't say I was well versed in Morrison circle jerk threads, I said I was well versed in the Hypercrisis. I also never said I expected a literal reincarnation. Be less of a sanctimonious dickhead next time you deign to explain things to us lesser beings that don't need them explained.

>>77605513
>sanctimonious dickhead
sorry you feel that way.

>>77605513
>I didn't say I was well versed in Morrison circle jerk threads, I said I was well versed in the Hypercrisis
>Morrison circle jerk
>Hypercrisis
Potato, Potato

>>77605429
I knew most of that already, but I still think the flimsiest part is the Orion/Batman connection aside from the cave.

>>77605553
You literally bulletpointed Final Crisis as if I had the reading comprehension of an elementary school student.

>>77605686
Whatever.
Batman was the proxy for Orion. Not a reincarnation. The New Gods didn't reincarnate like Darkseid's pals did, the heroes, Batman specifically, but the Super Young Team too, filled their roles and fought their battles.

Is that succinct and polite enough?
Besides, Morrison was totally pulling some specifically Orion-Batman stuff anyway, as linked too before. But that's still open to interpretation.

>>77605818
I know all that you condescending asshole. I still think that while Batman might be fulfilling Orion's role in the Fifth World there isn't a lot that suggests that he is the reincarnation of the New God himself, literal or otherwise.

i'm pissed i never got levianthan as anti-life

It was brilliant. Morrison took the Batman mythos into new, sustainable places while respecting the past. It could and should have been the new norm for years to come, but people like you, OP want Batman grunting and punching his way through the streets of Gotham forever. Morrison's international, superhero, james bondesque escapades coupled with Dick and Damian in Gotham was perfect.

I like the idea of Batman scouting and supporting street vigilantes whose ideals line up with his, but inevitably they'll have a story where everyone who isn't related to Bruce will be brutally murdered by a writer trying to leave his mark.

>>77601151
>Such a good character design
>Not liking anything but his introduction

But....he started with a regular Batman costume? Make up your mind.

>>77596165
>Desperate to get her back in the cowl
I don't think that wasn't the point of her watching over internet 3.0 though

>>77595737
Maybe, but the character growth from side kick > being devastated from losing Cyril > then taking up his mantle and going right back to kicking ass was amazing.
Honestly, I think Cyril's death hit me harder than Damians since I knew Damian would be back eventually.

>Not owning Batman & Son Vs Black Glove Deluxe HC, Batman RIP Deluxe HC, Absolute Final Crisis, Absolute Batman & Robin, Return of Bruce Wayne Deluxe HC and Absolute Batman Inc.


I pirate the majority of comics I read but I don't want to imagine not owning Grant's Batepic.

>>77606628
What's the best collected edition for the whole epic?

File: image.jpg (2MB, 4032x3024px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 4032x3024px

>>77606628
Pleb come at me.

>>77606935
The ones I just listed are my preference. But I mean I'm sure the TPBs are fine too. I'd be careful when buying Final Crisis outside of an Absolute edition though since newer edition hc's have the added pages from the Absolute while the older copies don't.

Not sure if the new/redone pages from Absolute Inc have made their way into a deluxe HC or tpb yet though so maybe give that one some time before buying unless you can confirm it has the pages Burnham redid for the Absolute.

>>77607030
This is also very acceptable.
>Year 100
Dank af desu

>>77607059
Thanks senpai that's actually my pick for best stand alone Batman story.

>>77606935
What I posted here >>77607030 from bottom to top starting at The Black Casebook but I highly recommend the others as well.

>>77607059
>>77607150
>t-b-h is censored to 'desu'
I actually lol'd. Good one 4chan.

Year 100 was one of the first things I read when I started reading comics. I think Long Halloween may have been the very first thing actually. But Year 100 has always stuck with me as one of my favorite Batman stories.
It sold the "Batman can be anyone" theme (That Dark Knight Rises kind of stumbled trying to do) so so well.
Not to mention Paul Pope's wild art style is fucking wonderful.

>>77588673
I really wish we could have seen how Morrison would have ended it.