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Whetstones

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I'm looking for a whetstone
But i dont really know what grit i should go for.

I'd mainly use it for my Miyabi 7000D made of CMV60 steel, but also for other cheap knifes.

I would have went for a 3000 + 8000 grit, is that too much?
What are some good whetstone brands?
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Holy shit is /ck/ being raided by knifeforums this week?
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>>7132048
its all me, but nobody responds.
so i keep creating threads until i got an answer
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>>7132057
lmfao. at least you admit it.....desu im no fucking good at sharpening knives. shits gay man.
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>>7132057
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Norton ib8 is all you need for most applications. 20-30 bucks and set.
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>>7132057
Keep your head up bro.
You simply chosen the wrong forum. I would guess something like 5% of people who browse this board, cook IRL. Just look at all them threads with disgusting fast food, sweets, ready meals, canned jews, soda pops.
Go to some sort of knifeforums and you will get valuable advice from people who actually cook and use professional knifes.
Godspeed
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Please remember that a moly knife is way softer than the 'cheap' knives, and Japanese knives are usually on a diff angle than western styles. Don't sharpen. Hone (realigning the feathers in the blade). If you need to sharpen, take to a pro or learn to use a countertop belt system. And yeah, not many pros on here, but some of us are.
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Thumbnail looks like a delicious thick slab of chocolate
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If you're dead set on Japanese style water honing King is a good brand 3k-6K is a little off, that's essentially a polishing stone and a finer polishing stone, the normal split is 1K-6K which allows you to do some shaping before polishing

http://www.amazon.com/King-Sided-Sharpening-Stone-Base/dp/B001DT1X9O

If you want a more all-round stone set I reccomend a basic Norton tristone setup with hard Arkanasas stone but I sharpen a lot of edged tools as well as my kitchen knives


>inb4 belt sander
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>>7132337
>>7132358

FUCK
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>>7132041
It depends on what you are looking to do. I would say a 3k & 8k combo is too fine for a single stone. If you get a chip or are contending with a dull as shit blade that you have to regrind, it will take a long time. If you are just learning, it will be discouraging because it will take a while to grind down to a new cutting edge and THEN work on refining the new edge you have created. I would recommend somewhere along the lines of 1k and 4k. It'll still take a while to do a full regrind on 1k, but it'll be a lot faster than 3k. 4k won't be a mirror shine or anything, but it will be plenty serviceable until you can save up for another stone with finer grit.
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>>7132350
yeah i probably choose the wrong img

>>7132274
literally ungooglable, but thanks
Just finding people talking good about them on forums, but no links where i could buy them.

>>7132298
I watched a couple of yt videos of chefs sharpening their knifes, doesnt look too complicated.
Just need to keep the angle right. I'd train with the cheap knifes though.

>>7132358
thanks. finally an answer from someone who actually uses them. Stone looks good

>>7132373
If i fuck up the edge completly, i would probably bring it to a professional with better tools.
It's just to resharpen the edge from time to time.

[spoiler]tfw finally some responses[/spoiler]
>inb4 cant spoiler on /ck/
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>>7132057
It's not just you m8.

I made this one and it got quite a lot of replies (it was basically just fueled by 2 anons fighting though towards the end):

>>7113430

How many threads have you created? That was literally the first thread I've ever created. Maybe I stole all your replies?

>mfw making the thread
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>>7132041
>Miyabi 7000D made of CMV60 steel

No one knows or cares about what this is. A $3 WalMart knife functions just the same as your autistic fantasy knife. This is a cooking board, not a 'muh Durdlefuck 7000' board
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>>7132057
It might not be a perfect corollary, but here's some stuff I found handy when doing chisel sharpening. https://dochub.com/anonymousanonymousf6f99017/b86XbE/sharpening-basics2
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>>7132401
>implyink
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>>7132401
Maybe its a difference when it comes to sharpening though. So i thought i mention the steel.

If i pull a soft knife over the stone and half the knife is gone, because the grit was too rough.
Or maybe the steel is to hard and a fine grit does nothing.

Use your brain m8, this board isnt /b/, at least i hope.

>>7132398
think thats the 3rd thread over the last couple of days.
But i got some good replies now, so my feelerino bait worked
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>>7132383
>professional with better tools
not all professional knife sharpeners have better tools (On the worst end of it, I've seen quite a few mobile sharpeners that have a small sharpening wheel in the back of a car), and most won't take the time to go completely by hand for an autismo edge that a lot of freehanders go for. If they do, they typically charge a lot per blade. Stones are the best tool for sharpening knives in most regards, but professional sharpeners typically value their time more than most of their customers, so a compromise is made for the sake of better business.
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>>7132401
>I'm poor and shop at walmart
I wish you "people" would all get trips so I could filter your poverty posts
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>>7132057
nigga you got like 150 responses in the last 5 threads, what more do you want?

3000 and 8000 is way too fine if that is your one stone

you need something in the 500 range, something in the 1000 range, and something in the 2000-5000 range

anything beyond that is autism tier and you'll be back at 1000 after cutting up a single onion

that 1000 edge will last a while though unless your knife is cheap or german
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>>7132442
This is pretty sensible advice. Make sure you have something to strop with though, don't want little metal bits getting in your food, and it does a lot to hone the edge.
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>>7132442
>implying i was serious about creating all the threads.
I think i made 2 in the last 4 days and both got 0 replies.

>implying not everything made in germany is goat
and miyabi is the japanese subcompany of zwilling aka henckels.
So im not sure if that counts are german or not.
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The third answer down is pretty much all you could hope for in terms of knife sharpening. http://cooking.stackexchange.com/questions/42539/how-to-properly-sharpen-santoku-and-any-other-knife-using-a-water-sharpener-japa
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>>7132469
the germans are shitting their pants right now because the japanese knife brands are raping them, so they've wisely created japanese sub brands, selling knives made of japanese steel.

probably safe to assume that that miyabi is made in japan, so I wouldn't worry. just stay away from those $150 chef knives made of x50CrMoV15 unless you like throwing money in the garbage
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What are your thoughts in finishing the edge with leather?
And could i just use an old belt?
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>>7132497
Seriously, stop being a moron.
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>>7132510
If you aren't going to get a proper strip with some compound, just go to a craft store and buy some balsa wood. Probably the best cheap stropping you can do, compound or no.
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>>7132041
Looks like a bar of chocolate.
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>>7132539
no U
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFvPNIGp01s
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>>7132497
>implying there's a difference between the quality of steel between first world nations with advanced metallurgy infrastructure
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>>7132599
I really don't know what to tell you. it's not like germany is some third world country. they make some fantastic, premium, state of the art consumer products, but knives are not one of them. their knives' selling points (full tang, three rivets, etc) are all based on the logic that your knife should double as a hammer and a pry bar, at the expense of its performance as a knife. this is great for consumers who don't give a shit, but the internet is making consumers a lot better informed than they once were. you either satisfy that consumer demand, or you die.

sheffield was once the dominant player in the cutlery industry. they did the same thing - took over the industry, earned a reputation, and then just sat and cranked out the same shit, at the same high prices, until germany came along and made better knives for cheaper. now nobody thinks about sheffield knives, except historians and collectors.

now japan is doing the same thing. there are still a few remaining clueless types who think japanese knives are all super expensive handmade folded 10000 times katanas, but pretty much anyone who doesn't live under a rock knows that they make better mass produced knives than the germans, that perform better for the same or less money. why would you buy a $150 knife made of the same steel they were using in 1955, when you can buy a $70 knife made of the latest state of the art swedish or japanese steel? nostalgia or ignorance, mostly, and those aren't a good thing to base your company's survival on. hence their move into selling japanese-style stuff.

pic somewhat related.
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>>7132641
I think you're generalizing a bit here, there's a wide variety of knives coming out of both Japan and Germany, but typically, as you say, German knives are heavier pieces. This isn't something they did by accident, it's just a different design rationale and it depends what you're using it for and how you feel about it. The quality of steel is not better in a Japanese knife than a German one as a rule, and the top of the line in both countries will be about the same. For at-home cooking a lot of people do seem to prefer the lighter Japanese knives, and they use less material so they can be cheaper generally speaking. But I think it's strange you mention full tang like it's a bad thing, full tang makes for a very sturdy knife.
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>>7132676
>The quality of steel is not better in a Japanese knife than a German one as a rule, and the top of the line in both countries will be about the same
what do you mean by "top of the line", are you talking about individual boutique custom knife makers? of course those are going to all have pretty high standards in *any* country, I'm talking about the average commercial mass produced knife, where german brands use x50crmov15 at best, or some weird mystery steel in some of its lower end stuff. "high end german knives" (other than the japan collaborations) means they come in a really pretty knife block. whereas for japanese brands (again, talking about mass produced stuff), you get stuff like VG10 or 19C17 on the low end (under $100), or ZDP189 or R2 on the high end.
>But I think it's strange you mention full tang like it's a bad thing, full tang makes for a very sturdy knife.
I don't think it's a bad thing, I just think it's dumb how they harp on it. first of all, it's common enough that it's not really saying much to differentiate the product. but also, the strength benefits conferred by a full tang are totally unnecessary for kitchen use, it's the kind of thing you want in an outdoor knife, where the handle has to stand up to hard impacts on a regular basis. but that's the thing with the german knives. yeah, you can split frozen chicken thighs with them, and they you can return to cutting food, but what person in his right mind does that? it's like saying your cutting board is the best cutting board because it's oven safe. a savvy consumer would ask "what am I giving up in return for being able to stick my cutting board in the oven". and thanks to the internet, they can find the answers for themselves.
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>>7132676
Pretty much this, except that when you get into some other attributes that people like about the corrosion resistance of x50CrMoV15, Japanese knives of decent quality become very expensive when approaching the same characteristics at harder tempering. A lot of people jump on the bandwagon of harder = better, which is simply stupid as an all encompassing statement, particularly when some German manufacturers are tempering blades on some lines to be harder, narrowing the gap significantly between many popular knives.
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>>7132755
I'm not just talking top of the line, really. The quality of the steel that both Japanese and German knives use will be about the same for equal price points, with a bit of a skew on German knives because they typically use more raw material. It is important to note that this isn't just about where the knives are made, German and Japanese denote a style of knife, and many German companies produce "asian" or Japanese knives either in Germany or in their Japanese branches. (I'm sure Japanese companies make "western" knives as well.)
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>>7132942
When you talk about steel used, it's not about "better" or "worse", it's about different traits. None of these metals are sloppily made, they are all held to very precise standards, they are just different. The bigger German style knives use a softer steel typically, which will lose an edge quicker but is also easier and cheaper to sharpen, as soft steels don't need as hard of a sharpening agent (compared to harder steels). Japanese style knives typically use harder steels, but they are harder and more expensive to sharpen, as well as more brittle. It's harder to use Japanese knives for things like sliding food off of a table, it doesn't handle that side-on pressure as well as something softer would. Then comes the edge of the blades, the Japanese blades have a finer edge, 15 degrees typically, which is going to give you a better but, but it will be more prone to damages if you use it on something like a bone, or if you are simply inexperienced. There is less margin for error when using a blade like this, and mistakes can lead to costly repairs or take the knife out of commission permanently. With the German style edges more around 20 or 25 degrees, you have a less sharp cut, but it can handle sturdier cutting, and if it is damaged it is easier to repair or sharpen out. With regards to overall knife size and heft, German knives are heavier, they are used more for chopping and cutting, and can handle cutting along bones or thick vegetables. Japanese knives are for cutting softer things, like tomatoes or boneless chicken, and will handle this better than a thicker knife would, at a cost, of course. So it's not that one knife is better than another, it's that one is different than another, and you can choose one based on your needs and preferences.
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>>7132948
A knife made with aus8 or aus10 steel will be much easier to sharpen than the vg10 clad equivalent. They are the easiest to sharpen by far among the non high-carbon knives.

I've ran the roster on a lot of popular knives, and people have to make their own choices. I would use a wusthof, but I wouldn't buy it unless it was on a mega sale.
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I use 320 to put an edge on the knife (i.e. edge is chipped, or new dull knife), 1000 to get it medium sharp, and 5000 to make my penis hard.

You don't go from zero to hero with a single really fine stone.

Don't soak your stone too long (10 to 15 minutes is ok, or until the bubbles stop coming out).
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>>7132358
>>7132383
I have this stone and use it with a global. Seems to get the knife pretty sharp. This is my first stone and I'm still learning though.
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>>7132510
A friend gave me a square of old saddle leather which worked amazingly well with chalk.

Stropping the finished blade on leather polishes the freshly sharpened bevel and edge, which reduces friction.

I lost the leather piece and used an old black belt and it worked, but it left black marks on the edge from the dye used in the belt.

Smooth undyed leather will work best, then just use a tiny amount of toothpaste or chalk for consistency.
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Just ask /out/. Every thread is a knife thread.
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Can anyone recommend me a ZDP189 chef's knife that doesn't cost an arm and a leg?
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>>7132510
I've used belts and actual strops for knives, for the kind of edge you're dealing with it won't matter

Actual strops are nice for razors where you legitimately need precision, but the grits are nowhere near that level for cooking
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>>7134938
how much are your arm and leg worth?

>>7135011
So its not needed at all for cooking knifes?
Though its mainly to clean the edge after sharpening

Guess ill just do like >>7134320 said and use an old belt + toothpaste
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>>7135500
It's not needed, but it is nice to have a blade like that for presentation cuts, if you're into that sort of thing. I take mine to my 10k stone because smoother edges also last longer, and I'm autistic, but I don't strop regularly.
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>>7135500
>>7135554
Edit:
It's not needed if you're taking your knife to a fairly fine grit, like 5k+ JIS. If you're only taking it to 2k JIS grit, a strop will help the edge last a lot longer and perform better. It is a surefire way to remove bur if done on a leather strap.
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>>7132041
thats not chocolate thats a wetstone
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>>7134320
>>7135500

you really need to pony up and get red and green rouge if you are serious about stropping. the strop material is almost irrelevant if you're not using rouge. toothpaste and blackboard chalk are old wives tales, you can get the same polish from a pair of blue jeans

A stick lasts forever for a non pro and it's very very noticeable in use. Red is about JIS 8000 and Green would be JIS 10K+ if JIS went that high

>>7135554
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Thing I've always wondered about using a whetstone yourself is how you dont fuck up the angle.

I once saw a chart showing the differences between ceramic and whetstone and electric sharpeners as well as a guide you can put onto a knife to keep an angle as well as a fixed angle guided sharpener. Kinda like pic related.

If I ever find it again I'd love to share the results.
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>>7138142
>>7132041

Well actually here's a page that shows all the images.

https://www.wickededgeusa.com/comparisons-of-knife-sharpeners/
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>>7135922
JIS goes higher, they make 30k stones
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>>7138194

marketing crapola, JIS doesn't go under 1 micron for abrasives. There's no such thing as a "30k" stone, it would essentially be a big block of wax and iron oxide aka rouge and you certainly couldn't sharpen on it
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>>7138441
>shitposting this hard
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>>7138474

That is not an official JIS number. the Japanese Industrial Standards Committee does not issue a grit standard below 1 micron. It is made up marketingspeak and not sanctioned by any independent body.
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>>7138487
are "microns" also marketing crapola?
does that look red to you?
why are you even posting?
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>>7132041

Do you have any experience with freehand sharpening? With Japanese waterstones?

The first things you need to do are to go start reading the Kitchen Knife Forum message board, in particular the Sharpening Station section.

The second thing you need to do is ignore virtually everyone this thread because they are largely clueless fucking morons who have no idea what they are talking about. Get used to that.

The overwhelming majority of people who buy knives and talk about them online don't know how to sharpen, and therefore their opinions on knives and sharpening are about as relevant as choreography done by a blind person.
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>>7132337

You literally shouldn't be permitted to consume oxygen. Never speak about knives online again you fucking clueless retarded mongoloid.
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>>7132358
>>7132373

Both reasonable posters, 1k/6k is the most common combination stone, and for good reason.

A 1k waterstone is usually coarse enough to apex a kitchen knife without visible damage to the edge in a reasonable time frame, and the leap to 6k is quite manageable for a kitchen knife as well.
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>>7132401

Actually they do, and you are just an ignorant poorfag who has never handled a half decent kitchen knife, nor one what wasn't as dull as a butter knife.
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>>7132429

Very true, though professional hand sharpening services are becoming a bit more common (if still expensive) to cater to kitchen professionals who don't want to spend the time to learn and maintain their knives.
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>>7132510
>>7132541

Personally, I think that if you are going to strop a knife after finishing on the stones to remove any burr, you would be better off using Mothers mag polish on denim rather than leather or balsa.

This dude with an electron microscope provided some good evidence of it being VERY effective, and I normally prefer using a micro-bevel to a strop.

https://scienceofsharp.wordpress.com/2015/10/30/burr-removal-part-1/
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>>7132641
>>7132755
>>7132948

Holy shit, someone who knows what the fuck they are talking about.
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>>7134938

Unless you have a full set of diamond plates or very aggressive waterstones, you don't want a chef's knife in ZDP-189 because it will take you a ridiculously long time to sharpen.

For kitchen use and sharpening by someone without specialized equipment for extremely wear resistant steels, I would recommend white or blue paper steels, honestly.
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>>7135922
>>7135554


Honestly, you guys who strop should try applying a micro-bevel with very light force on a lubricated sintered ceramic stone like a Spyderco fine, it will also remove a burr and leave a stronger apex, but in my experience has much less risk of rounding the apex over than a strop does.
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>>7138487

While you are technically correct, are you operating under the belief that Shapton are lying about the particle size of the abrasives in their stones which are finer than the JIS scale max?

Does that seem like a reasonable position to you?

Also, as I use both a Sigma Power Select II in 10,000 and 13,000, I can tell you that the later is significantly finer than the former.
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>>7139030
I'll just watch videos of japanese chef's

Forum people all know shit, dont know why that kitchen knife forum should be any better than /ck/.
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>>7139030
>>7139155

I just wanted a recommendation for a good stone/grit, which i got.

Now im just fascinated about how long a thread on /ck/ survives.
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>>7139084
That's why I prefer my fine stone to stropping, but the difference is not huge, which is why I acknowledge that I am an autist about it. Stropping on a strap can refine an edge more than anyone truly needs for cooking, or it can be used to refine a relatively rough edge enough to make it last a longer without the effort of creating a good micro bevel. I've also stopped micro bevels on loaded flat leather. I didn't find an appreciable difference between that and only finishing on the stone, but I wasn't trying to make stained glass panels out of meat.
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>>7139155

You should go there because the people who posted there have forgotten more about sharpening kitchen knives and using waterstones than you will ever know, you ignorant fuck.
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>>7132942
>and many German companies produce "asian" or Japanese knives either in Germany or in their Japanese branches
license manufactured in Japan, by a Japanese company
>I'm sure Japanese companies make "western" knives as well
I don't know what you mean by this, really. Are you saying you aren't sure whether Japan makes chef knives? You thought maybe they only make yanagibas and debas and such?
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>>7139892
>Shilliing this hard

eh, maybe you guys know a lot about knives and knive-related matters, but nobody cares

its not only ignorance, you see

im not even the other poster so dont bother
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>>7139971

Honestly, I'm too used to this level of ignorance to even get mad anymore. Talking about knives or sharpening online is mostly totally hopeless, I should stop trying to help people and join the usual problem with sharpening of those who know not speaking and those who speak not knowing.
>>
>>7139892
>>7139978
There are a few people on /ck/ who obviously know more than a lot of the posters on those forums, and a few posters there who know a lot more than any regulars on /ck/. That doesn't mean people can't learn from each other, but the quality of the discussion determines how arduous of a process it will be.
Mostly it is a matter of people taking a bad attitude and slinging insults and accusations of ignorance rather than discussing that makes a lot of these threads terrible.
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