Inspired by 'things we miss in Lolita' thread, it&

To get the ball rolling on some discussion, some things to think about. When did the style start to decline in popularity? Was it in any way connected to the decline in popularity of Gothic Lolita, as the Sweet substyle rose in popularity? How abouts do you think that Aristocrat / EGA could try and make a comeback?

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aristocrat without the visual gothic influence is just neo-victorian. its decline is because lolita lost touch with its visual kei side and fell in love with prints.

it is also not a label that is used by Japanese brands outside of Moitie, and as Moitie diminished in quality and popularity there have been 0 brands and 0 models and 0 street snaps and 0 fashion editorials branded "aristocrat."

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>>9350980
(ctd.)

that lack of exposure, compared to things like lolita or even larme, means nobody is likely to encounter the concept in the wild as a new or current "happening" thing. also, androgyny has fallen out of favor as the type of people who might have once liked a dark, mature androgynous look are encouraged by social media to make androgyny their identity and be feminine and kawaii about it.

those are some of my theories anyway

>>9350980
I agree with you regarding the differences between in and outside of Japan the style is perceied, with the parts of feminine J-goth associated with 'Aristocrat' and the more mature end of Ouji got bundled together as one style in the West - which it's easy to see why. I myself will often use the term 'Aristocrat' to describe the style because that's how it's known better here, despite knowing how it's seen in Japan.

I think the rise of prints in Lolita sounds very reasonable a reason. I think that combined with the popularity of sweet styles has had an effect, as some of the brands which did cater to the more gothic side. I've noticed it in particular with AatP and Atelier Pierrot, both of which produced pieces often referred to as being 'Aristocrat' in the West / goth in Japan. Lolita has become a lot more busy and fussy than it used to be as well, further encouraging the brands making this sort of style produce a lot less of it, as it's by its nature a much more subdued, more refined, and less fussy style as a whole.

>>9350982
So, perhaps discussing the style more would help?

>>9350980
Moitie has indeed declined in popularity, but not in quality. Source: buy many Moitie items every year.

>>9351001
Was just about to say the same thing. Moitie has been very consistent, their stuff never fails to out-perform more popular Japanese brands like Baby or AP in terms of quality and durability.

>>9351001
I've owned and seen some very good quality Moitie, but I've also seen poor quality pieces of Moitie, such as their screen prints, which I dislike. As with anything, I think it varies. Either way, I still think the decline in popularity of Moitie, and gothic in general, is quite sad, especially as Lolita fashion is getting busier and busier as a style.

>>9351001
their quality has gone down in terms of prints. even their new tights/OTKs had me wtf-ing.

i do not myself care for prints but that is where the fashion is focused now. all the durability in the world does not matter when you can get cute art from a Taobao brand at a fraction of the cost.

>>9351154
I think it's one of the things I like about Boz - it's just kept on focusing on solid colour pieces, or the occassional patterned fabric rather than going into prints. Their quality's also been pretty consistent over the last several years, although I have encountered some poorer quality Boz older pieces, I have some pieces that are near ten years old that are really nice quality, even on the linings, with solid construction and lovely, weighty fabrics that drape beautifully.

I'd love to see Moitie putting out more non-print stuff, especially on their EGA line, and focus on getting the quality back up, with things like more velvet releases. Even on Moitie you don't ned a million crosses everywhere to make teh statement that the piece is gothic (another thing I like about Boz). Moitie seemed to have focused more on the EGL side, and their EGA releases have been thin on the ground and very casual.

>>9350980
>lolita lost touch with its visual kei side
I think this is the biggest thing that Lolita has lost over the years. The vkei influence was part of where the contradiction of lolita came from. It was like adding a pinch of salt to something sweet to make it better.

I think if you look at visual as well, its undergone a rather parallel evolution to lolita. It evolved away from the biker/punk/underground roots of Visual Shock into a much different thing, that feels a bit like it's had all the edges sanded off.

>>9351154
Moitie fell off in prints when they started releasing photoshop disasters, which was a damn long time ago. Honestly looking at MmM vs what other brands have done and are doing Moitie seems like it was a long way ahead of the curve. Using nice polyesters when everyone was using cotton, custom lace before AP made it cool, and Photoshop disasters before JetJ and Atelier Pierrot. Damn Mana share that crystal ball.

>>9351173
Boz is love. Except when their black doesn't match the piece I wanted to wear it with, then it's the devil itself. Their cuts are to die for, and their tailoring is just amazing. I keep telling myself I need more but then I get distracted by MmM.

>>9351612
One of the things I love most about Boz is their tailoring, and their clean cuts of pieces. Outside of Jfashion, I mix a lot of classic styling and goth fashion, with a love of good tailoring. Think a mix of Susan Sto Helit and the vampire Lestat. I feel Boz pieces fit in really well with the rest of my wardrobe. I usually find blouses that fit me well an absolute nightmare to find, even with a lot of Western brands, but Boz ones fit me perfectly. I have a very long torso and atm length for my overall height. My main annoyance with Boz is the inconsistency on their sizing as times, and not listing waist measurements on a lot of pieces on the website. Overall though, it doesn't stop me loving the brand, just sometimes I need to grab something in the men's size, such as my Rolands. I love as well how they have classic staples that they release year after year, such as Rolands, and Mistress and Andrew blouses.

>>9351173
I agree, I love Boz (and AtPie) for the solid colored items they put out in particular.

>>9351695
Their tailoring is phenomenal, but I agree wholeheartedly about the sizing issues. One jacket i have fits me like a glove, whole my Roland just hangs off me in a few places. But I love the focus on cuts and slight embellishments over prints or even oodles of lace.

Anyone here a Sheglit fan? I've been getting into it a bit lately, since they do a lot of the asymmetric stuff I really love.

>>9352430
I've liked some of their designs, such as the asymmetric pieces, and interesting corsets, it's definitely a good brand stylewise for using for Aristocrat. I've heard mixed things however about their quality. What would you say about it in that respect?

With your Roland, do you need the mens' size are you ok with the ladies? Where does it fit less well on you? I need the mens because I'm just that little bit too big on my waist to fit a ladies size comfortably/reliably, once layers of clothing are factored in.

>>9352133
I have to say that I prefer AtPie's older stuff, when they were more goth than lolita, before prints really took off. I one had a lucky find on MBok a couple of years ago, I bought a dress listed as being Boz but turned out to be AtPie. It's gorgeous, beautifully made as well.

Do people have preferences on what sort of accessories, such as types of jewellery they wear, or footwear? I prefer wearing non goth brand jewellery, just keeping things very minimal and elegant, wearing what I wear all the time, such as a silver ankh pendant and matching earrings, maybe a few bangles. I can't go near costume jewellery at all, it badly irritates my skin. A shame, as I love some of what Boz releases.

>>9352434
Yea, I've been loving how Sheglit kinda dances along the lolita-aristocrat line. as far as quality goes, everything is generally lower than Boz or MmM, but it's still decent. I've handled their recent nun dress and while I love the cut and design I thought they could have made better material choices. But the other things I've handled were a lot nicer.

I'm fine with the ladies (if that is indeed what I own because I bought it secondhand). My problem is that the sleeves are too long, and the waist isn't as trim as I would like. I'm a somewhat petite female though, I'm 5'2" and a 25" waist. Just about everything that I own that isn't a skirt has to be cinched in like crazy.

For jewelry I've been looking at Voodooodolly, been wanting to take the plunge on her work. Otherwise I have a bit of MmM jewelry.

>>9352450
>(if that is indeed what I own because I bought it secondhand).
if the tag does not say, the direction the buttons face should make it clear

>>9352450
The 'dancing between lolita and aristocrat' line is one of the things I like as well about Sheglit. I'd like to see some Sheglit pieces in person first though I think before buying any myself. I use a fair bit of IW for aristo inspired lolita outfits, mainly their longer length jsks. I really like that they cater well to smaller busts - a problem I run into with a lot of brands. I also like some of IW's small bow clips for my hair - the only hair bows I actually like. I wear my hair a lot in a bun, inspired by dressage riders.