Cosplay Photography: Free vs Paid

>>9323876
If she (hell, anybody) makes me a free costume, I'll do a free full photoshoot with the works with her.

Anyone with a dslr thinks theyre a photographer these days even if their work is subpar/awful lol. Photos arent something youre entitled to and people arent requires to shoot, then edit your pics for free just because you already spent a lot on your costume. Buy your own camera ans force a friend.

Plenty of free photographers around. Go ask them.

Paying for a photographer is an agreement for, and hopefully this is what you get...

1) A professional photo. This can mean many things, but let's stick with the simple ones for all photographers. A well-balanced photo that consists of adequate exposure/lighting, composition/framing, and focusing. I say this since not every photographer is a user of photo manipulation/imaging software.
2) A photo delivered. A paid photographer better deliver at least their minimum promised photos, or they'll be lambasted to Hell and back! *cough - Lauren Pihl/Aoife Haney - cough*

cosplayer photogs always creeps who fap to the pictures anyway so they can consider that their payment

>>9323885
That's right. If a photographer is charging you for photos, it's because you're too ugly to fap to.

>>9323885
Not everyone is mineralblu

>>9323876
Your hobby is to make costumes and wear costumes. That's it. Getting your photos taken is not part of your hobby at all, it's the photographer's hobby. Getting your photos taken is a privilege, not a right. You are not entitled to free photo shoots. Why is this such a difficult concept to grasp? If you don't want to pay for photoshoots, then you better be attractive enough and make a costume good enough to make photographers want to shoot with you for free. If you don't think it's fair that photographer's make money off of photoshoots and cosplayers don't, then you should start charging photographers money to shoot with you. Of course unless you're famous enough or good looking enough, most photographers aren't going to pay you because here's the real red pill. Cosplayers outnumber photographers at conventions by an overwhelming margin. This means we can be picky with who we work with and we can charge whatever we want, and cosplayers can't. Unless a huge influx of new photographers come into the scene or cosplayers unanimously agree to refuse every photographer from taking their photo, this will never ever change. So deal with it.

>>9323876

I kind of agree with her...

Cosplayers go to cons to cosplay. Photographers go to cons to shoot. They both pay for their gear, tickets, accom etc, and yet the cosplayer is the one who has to cough up the cash?
I get that the tog has to then edit them if they so wish, but the cosplayers also have to invest a lot of time and money into putting their outfits together and often at the expense of their health and wellbeing.
Outside of cons togs would have to pay for models, so why is it usually so one sided on who pays who?

A lot of groups I've been wanting to participate in studio shoots for later demand that we pay to get the togs there (travel), feed them and pay for the studio, when they're getting just as much out of it and then some because they'll get more business later on from people seeing the pics and wanting to work with them.

Normally I just take my camera, a few friends and we piss about with our own photoshoots, we usually get a few usable ones from it.

>>9323930
Right but thats under the assumption that the photograph approaches them. Normally cosplayers apptoach the photographer for pictures so the photographer will go to the con to work (doing booked shoots). In that case the cosplayet hired the photographer. If the photographer approaches a cosplauer and asks to do a shoot then the cosplayer shouldnt have to pay for the pics as it qas the photographer who wanted this session. But 9/10 times the cosplayer requests it and sets it up meaning theyve hired a service.

>>9323941
P.S. im on mobile and horrible at fixing typos so sorry about the nightmare spelling

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>>9323930
>Cosplayers go to cons to cosplay. Photographers go to cons to shoot. They both pay for their gear, tickets, accom etc, and yet the cosplayer is the one who has to cough up the cash?

>cosplayers have no photographers to work with
>cosplayers are stuck with point and shoot and camera phone snapshits from their friends

>photographers have no cosplayers to work with
>photographer shoots street photography, travel photography, wildlife, concerts and countless other outlets for their creativity

Life rolls on. Photographers are way more important to you than you are to them.

>>9323930
You are also paying for a product, the finished picture.

If you are a good/great cosplayer people will take your pic for free you just have to search the web for your picture after the fact if they even upload it. If you want the pictures edited and sent to you, guess what you have now asked for a service and that service is one you have to pay for.
Not to mention that hall cosplay shots are different than a photoshoot with a photographer. They aren't just snapping your picture. They are using thier skills to pose you and get the best angles and lighting. In the end you are paying for something that is better (or should be if the photog is any good).

You can charge when you are asked/hired to be a model and specific skills are required of you.

Oh look, it's a FOURTH photographer bashing thread.

Honestly, fuck this bitch. It's one thing to say, "I don't want to pay for shoots". But it's another to say, "Nobody should be paid for shoots".

Photography is work. And cosplay photography is work with no ongoing value (who's going to put cosplay shit in their professional portfolio? Who's gonna hire you when you show them that shit-stained picture of the fat Harley Quinn with the ratty wig?). At least cosplayers can use their costuming to continue looking for costuming work. If I'm going to waste wear and tear on my shutter taking meaningless pictures, pay me for it.

You complain when we charge, then when we shoot for free, you complain that we only take pictures of the pretty girls. Then when we shoot you fat, misshapen bitches too, you act like you're doing us a favor.

>>9323930
This is actually the reason why photographers don't charge in my country.

>>9324043
We don't charge in my country, either.

>>9323928
damn, that's right

>>9323882
>>9323883
Free photographers usually mean non-retouched photos, bad posing, bad lighting... you're not spending money, but you're wasting your time.

>>9323928
The number of cosplayers who are worth my taking their photo is even smaller than that; there's a lot of cosplayers that I find attractive that I will NEVER EVER shoot with, because they have been massive cunts to me, or to someone I know. If you're a bitch, you can't get in front of my lens.

>>9323930
For the thousandth time, cosplayers pay because they like a particular photographers work. If you don't care about quality, you can just walk down the hall posing for the randoms. Photographers don't pay because 1, cosplay isn't worth paying for (meaning, there's no way to make back the money), 2, there are way more cosplayers than photogs, and 3, cosplayers are the ones who want photos, not the other way around. If I'm going to pay to shoot someone, I'm going to go to an agency (or at least ModelMayhem), not some fat Madoka with half her hair sticking out from under her wig.

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>>9324018
>Then when we shoot you fat, misshapen bitches too
Savage

>>9323876
As a cosplayer and photographer, I agree and disagree with her sentiments. True, shit has changed a lot in 15 years, or even the last 5 years, and there are a lot more photographers charging for shoots (whether it's merited is on a case-by-case basis).

That said, I think >>9323882 has a point. Fact: There are a lot of people who bought DSLR cameras and decided they are now "photographers" and are charging money for shit work. As a "consumer" or cosplayer, your job and responsibility before paying any photographer is to decide whether their work is worth your money. If you like their work, continue doing research. Did that photographer deliver what they said they would in a timely manner? (x number of pics promised for x amount of money, delivered within x months?) If not, then take your money elsewhere or find a friend to shoot for you.

It's a 2-way street. Photographers are free to ask to photograph whomever they like, whether they're titty-tastic cosplayers only, people with awesome costumes in general, or everyone in sight (EBK-style). Likewise, cosplayers can choose which photographers they want to work with on the spot or via pre-arranged shoots. Some photographers have loyalty discounts to people they have shot with before and enjoyed working with, so if you as a cosplayer feel like that's something you can comfortably ask about, ask politely.

Literally, no one owes anyone anything unless money was exchanged/contract made. Photographers don't owe you photos just because you made a costume. Cool that you worked hard on a costume and all, but no one HAS to take your photo because you're in a costume. They may owe you pics if you paid for a shoot though. Likewise, cosplayers are not obligated to let a photographer take their photo unless there was money and pre-arrangements made. Even so, in most cases, if you as a cosplayer derp off, don't communicate like an adult would, and skip a paid shoot, photog's keeping your money.

>cosplayers accuse photographers of being creepy lonely loser perverts who will shoot any attractive girl that gives them an erection
>cosplayers incapable of using their feminine wiles to score free photoshoots from said creepy lonely loser pervert photographers
Something here just isn't adding up.

Everyone should just take their own photos. Problem solved

>>9323954
You come off as a salty self-important photog. This is true if you have any semblance of skill which 80% of my photogs do not have (and no being able to use photoshop doesn't mean you're good at it) but this immediately goes out the window if the cosplayer has any semblance of fame whatsoever. Sure if they're a baby cosplayer who looks like shit and has poor execution who just wants pics for memories, its understandable, but in the way of PR, there's more famous cosplayers than famous photographers who shoot cosplayers. That just about sums up the argument for me. You drop 1k on a dslr and suddenly you want everyone to suck your dick and then pay you. You're going to need results of pretty cosplayers and nice shots in the first place, so how are you going to get that without shooting for free? You're not as good as it as you think, friend.

>>9324131
If 80% of the photographers that you work with are shitters then you're probably not cosplay famous enough to be relevant to your own argument. Sure I'd love to shoot Metly or Enji or Anzu for free, but you're not Melty or Enji or Anzu so you better hand over some cash babbygurl.

Cosplayer:
>Spends 300-400 work hours PER costume
>Spends hundreds of dollars PER costume
>Wears the costume
>Comes up with shooting locations and poses, arranges pretty much everything for the shoot

Photographer
>One-time purchase camera and lens that can be used every time
>Takes the photo
>Edits the photo
>HURR I GOT A DSLR THAT COST MONEY GETTING PHOTOS IS A PRIVILEGE I SHOULD GET $200 FOR EVERY PICTURE I TAKE

And yes, photographers' skills don't come without practice but that's the same for cosplayers. I'm so glad I have cosplaying friends and we take each others' photos and produce better material than these self-proclaimed "professional cosplay photographers" scamming people for money lmao

You know it's funny, when cosplayers want to start a patreon or do something else to earn money, you all get butthurt and say no one should pay for your hobby.

Well isn't photography your hobby? Why should we pay for that?

I do think it's silly to pay for photos at a convention. If I'm gonna be forking up money, I better be able to pick the location. I 100% do not mind contacting a photographer and paying for photos outside of a convention, but at a con that we both attend for the joy of our hobbies with usually shit locations that lack privacy? No.

>>9324171
Photographers don't give a shit about patreon. All of the complaining is from cosplayers who aren't popular enough to make money from patreon.

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>>9324018
You sound salty cause no one wants to pay you. Maybe you should learn to take better photos.

>>9324170
I've spent $3400 just on my main body and main lens alone. That's not even counting the lighting equipment, extra bodies and lenses and other assortment of random accessories I've accumulated through the years. I doubt the average cosplayer stays in the hobby long enough to spend that much of their costumes. But hey if you're happy shooting with $100 point and shoot camera then more power to ya.

>>9324186
This. Most con photos are bleh. Even at venues with photo-friendly locations like Katsucon, those photo places get tired and while gorgeous, may not be a good fit for your costume. (Katsucon's gazebo, black and white spa area, or basement wave wall, anyone?)

I have no problem paying for outside shoots, in fact, I prefer them. Both cosplayer and photographer have more control over an outside shoot in terms of timing, location, etc., and fewer distractions such as randos walking through the middle of it.

>ITT people who still think that you can be a professional cosplay photographer
Kek, try again. Most normal photographers can barely make a living and you want to only do cosplay photography. Maybe stop bitching on 4chan and start finding a real job if you want your shekels so bad.

>>9324206
>$3400 camera body and primary lens

A camera is only as good as the person using it. The point I think many in the thread are making is that no amount of money spent on high-end equipment can make up for lack of practice/skills. (Not saying this is your situation).

You may be a very skilled photographer and know your shit, but for every photographer who knows what they are doing, there are like 10 more with expensive cameras and no skills to equal the amount they are charging (or they shouldn't be charging at all - rather practicing and building a portfolio).

All these photogs being salty as fuck about the idea of shooting people for free because "I'm not doing this for fun ffs". Why did you even become a cosplay photographer? To make money? Congratulations, you're just as shitty as all the patreon sluts who slap on a bikini and a wig for money and thus make the hobby all about monetary profit. Con organizers probably go through a lot more effort than anyone and they do it for free.

I just wish cosplayers stopped paying for the shoots and gave chances to the photographers who actually want to participate in the community like everyone else. The people who want to make a mint with photographing cosplayers can go shoot normie weddings and baby photos. Oh right, that's boring and not as exciting as shooting cosplayers so you don't want to do it. Damn, guess you're just stuck with us cheapskate divas?

Also the best photographers I've experienced are free. Charging money =/= Talent. Fuck, even I've made parts for a cosplay for free to my friends because I just want to support fellow hobbyists even though I could technically charge for the materials and the labor.

Is getting professional photos really a needed aspect in cosplay if it is a hobby though?
Y'all can't just take a selfie or have someone shoot on your phone and edit it.
If you are looking to sell prints why would you not pay the photographer? Either that or you give them a cut.

>>9324232
I think it depends on what each cosplayer wants out of cosplaying in general.

If I do a shoot with friends because we managed to organize ourselves for a group cosplay, it can be a fun way to nerd about whatever the source is, recreate favorite scenes, and capture a memory of having fun with friends. Is it essential to do shoots? For us, no, but it is a fun bonus if it happens. Generally we'll shoot with our photographer friends who are primarily at the con to enjoy it but who also like doing a handful of shoots of their favorite stuff. For my friends and I, we generally cosplay and hang out, then grab food and drink. We are serious about construction and doing our best work, but none of us think it's a career... cause we all have actual jobs.

Then there are people who basically do shoots morning to night without chilling with friends, doing con stuff, etc. Maybe for them, the photos are the end result/end game so they need those for closure of each project? I don't know, I'm not one of those cosplayers.

Then there are the occasional people who just roleplay constantly over the weekend and you wonder why... does their life suck so much that they assumed this other identity to get through the weekend?

>>9324171
>>9324192
Funny how all the cosplayers here bitching probably have a Patreon and are giving away prints and sneak peeks at shoots.

Guess you need a photographer for that.

>>9324263
No you don't. Those people are paying for sexy photos, they couldn't care less if they're taken with a cellphone or a DSLR

I don't do free shoots anymore beca use the batches don't show up and waste my time. If they pay, they got some damn motivation to get their asses to the shoot. If they flake, at least I got paid for wasting my time.

>>9324221
I was mostly just trying to show the previous poster how much the minimum requirement for a professional quality portrait photography setup actually costs because they seemed to be implying photography isn't an expensive hobby due to the fact that you only need to make a one time investment. While I agree with most of what you said, I still believe photographers have the right to charge whatever they want because I'm a strong believer in free market economics. It's not up to photographers to not charge money or be reasonably skilled, it's up to cosplayers to avoid shitty photographers who charge for too much money and look harder for good photographers who shoot for free. Be smart, do your research and ignore photographers whose business practices you don't like.

>>9324268
Sure those prints will look awesome with a cellphone

>>9324306
Cameras do require maintenance contrary to popular belief. Photographers also pay fees, if they're truly photographers and continuing to learn new methods and techniques, and many programs are now going towards subscription based services now instead of just buying the program once.

>>9324310
Fucking Adobe going full shekels. Why can't we have nice things?

Over here it's 'normal' photographers don't get paid, but as a cosplayer I think they should at least get money for travelling, maybe even for food and money if I want certain edits done.

>>9324310

and my sewing machine was a thousand dollars, plus the serger, the embroidery modules, the patterns, scissors, iron, saw, sander, drill, blow dryer, flat iron....

both sides pour a lot of money and effort into the hobby for equipment and upkeep. cosplayers also spend on non-reusable supplies. it shouldn't be a competition over who's put more money in and thus deserves to get paid for their half of the product.

We already had this thread this month. Does it really have to happen again?

>>9324359
Photographers make money charging for shoots. Cosplayers make money selling prints. Nigri sells prints for $20 a pop. Granted it's fucking Nigri, but there's nothing stopping you from doing the same. Or you could do commissions for other people. If you wanted to make money through your hobby, you could fucking make some money through your hobby. If you choose not to make any money, then that's your decision, but don't whine about the people who do choose to charge for their work because you more or less have the same opportunities that they do.

Why is this such a strange concept? It's like you guys think cosplay operates in a different reality than the outside world. If a restaurant makes shitty food, then don't eat from there. If you know a carpenter does good work, you pay them for their time. If you think a mechanic is trying to charge you too much, take your business elsewhere. If you hate overpaying scalpers, but you really really want to get tickets to a sold out concert then you either decide to suck it up and overpay or you don't go to the concert at all.

didnt she just move from west to east coast? this seems to be a big thing on the east coast but ive never heard of anyone charging on the west.

i only shoot with a good friend of mine so its never been an issue and is more of a fun hanging out thing

I don't have a problem with photographers who can consistently turn out pro-level work charging.

I do have a problem with incompetent shits charging.

Cosplayers want to get photoshoots for free. And I want to get my dick sucked by a cosplayer for free. But I guess no one is fucking getting what they want. The difference here is that I don't feel like I'm entitled to getting my dick sucked for free just because we happen to share similar hobbies. Next time you're salty because a photographer won't shoot with you unless you pay him money, ask yourself, would you suck his dick for free?

>>9324440
Same.

Of course, it's your choice to charge even if you're shitty. But if no one wants to pay for your photography because you suck, and you don't want to shoot models for free to improve, that's your own problem.

Why don't the photographers pay the cosplayers? Cosplayers are the reason photographers get any attention.

I'm neither but I was thinking about getting into cosplay photography and I always felt it would make sense to pay the model.

>>9324447
Would photographers also lick a clit for free in exchange to shoot with a professional model then? lol wait nevermind, the other way around might just be a way easier choice since they probably want to get giggity with models in the first place. Damn there goes my comparison.

>>9324447
None of you could pay anyone enough to get near your dick but nice try

>>9323928
>Getting your photos taken is a privilege, not a right.

And to photographers: Being able to take photos is a privilege, not a right.
Just because you own a fancy camera doesn't give you the right to take photos. You're not a professional cosplay photographer. Without cosplayers, you are nothing. Go out to get a real job.

>>9324462
And no self respecting photographer wants to shoot you for free. I'm glad you finally understand why we charge for photoshoots.

>>9324474
False equivalence. For a photographer, taking a photo of a cosplayer is indeed privilege. If a cosplayer doesn't want their photo taken, you generally don't take it because you're not entitled to get a photo of that cosplayer. That's where the similarity ends. You want my service, I want your money. Like a wise man once said "fuck you, pay me."

>>9324474
And you're not a professional model. Without photographers, you are nothing. Go out and get a real job.

>>9324455
As someone mentioned before, because there are so many cosplayers. The same as photographers. If they are cosplayers that are willing to do shoot for free, why would a photographer want to pay someone?

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>>9324455
Because if you did /cgl/ would shit on you anyway because you can get away with getting paid for photos and they can't. Allegedly.

>>9324474

Difference is you idiots let us take a photo of you if we ask. No one is asking cosplayers to do a paid shoot at a con, but plenty of cosplayers want nice looking photos, so they book cosplay photographers.

You want to change the game, then start telling those low grade photographers that charge $5-30 to shoot to pay you, since so many of them upfront say they are still practicing or testing their skills and equipment. Instead you idiots fucking pay them, and enable them to keep doing this BS

>>9324455
Maybe the untalented ones, but I can assure you I get plenty of attention from others because I don't pigeon hole myself as a cosplay photographer.

Most photographers aren't going to complain if cosplayers don't want to pay money considering that professional photographers are making their income doing things such as wedding and commercial photography or selling prints within galleries. If a cosplayer is just bitching because they asked a great photographer for a photoshoot, and the photographer said, 'Sure, if you pay me,' then that's just silly. There are asshole photographers who bitch they aren't making any money because cosplayers don't want to pay. In that case, the photographer is stupid and should be making money that isn't reliant on people in fancy costumes.

I'd say no good photographer actually making money through skill is going to spend their time bitching about cosplayers since they never relied on that income in the first place.

>>9324497
Professional models still pay their photographers. If they aren't paying them directly, the company they are modeling through is paying them.

>>9324519
This is true if not meanly worded. A new photographer can be offered a chance to build their portfolio in exchange for their time and work. That's an acceptable trade for a photographer just getting into the practice.

At cons, yes. Shoot for free. Because if the cosplayers hadn't put all their effort and work into their costumes, then you wouldn't have any material. Plus there are legalities with making money from photos taken on con ground (for instance here in the UK the major conventions have rules in the ticket terms of service that any photos taken within the grounds technically belong to the con so pls don't make money from it. Not that they give a shit about people selling prints etc, i think its just to stop people from charging for con shoots.)

However outside of a con it should be like any professional photoshoot, cosplay or not - the one who is inquiring should be the one paying.

>>9324548
Before answering, understand I am not talking about photographers randomly, and quite rudely, asking random people in costumes if they will pay to have their photos taken.

At what point are they 'obligated'? Let's say a photographer takes all their gear, and is taking free photos of costumes they adore. While taking free photographs of a cosplayer who they chose to take a picture of, some random person walks up before the photographer has left and says, 'Hey, will you take some pictures of me as well?' This person asking may not have a costume on that the photographer likes. Maybe the photographer abhors the series. Whatever.

Is it more polite for the photographer to say, 'I'll take pictures if you pay me,' or to outright refuse and say something along the lines of, 'I'd rather not because your costume isn't something I'd like to photograph. I don't like the character, series, skill, or any other random reason.'

>>9324548
>At cons, yes. Shoot for free. Because if the cosplayers hadn't put all their effort and work into their costumes, then you wouldn't have any material.
If you're talking about hallway shots, then yeah of course they should be free.That's pretty much a given. But a photoshoot is a photoshoot, whether you do it inside a con or outside a con. In my opinion anyway.

>>9324474
>>9324489

Under the First Amendment, taking photos in public spaces IS a right.

>>9324560
I meant morally, not legally. But yes, you are correct.

>>9324560
Technically though a convention is not a 'public space' because the attendees paid to be there. It could be argued a free convention is 'public', but the instant money was paid to attend, the space becomes 'private'. Free or paid, it would be at the discretion of those renting the property as to if a photographer was allowed to shoot pictures.

I doubt any convention organizers would pick a bone with photographers though.

>>9324552
I want to know too

>>9324552
Unless money changes hand, you're not obligated to do anything. But both of your responses would be kinda rude. You could just say you're running late for a panel or you have to meet up with friends. Or you could tell the truth and hurt their fee fees, but no one really wants to hear the truth.

both sides of this argument are fucking retarded.

people who cosplay: you chose ab expensive af hobby, boo hoo, not paying someone for a service you want/can't do yourself is fucking childish

photogs: stop being so entitled, not every jnig slut wants you to take their photos and takinga few photos doesn't make you a professional, but you deserve to get paid if you're asked for photos

end of story, you idiots just dress up in shitty costumes and expect people to faun over you so much people do shit for you for free. either get over it or show some tits

>>9323930
>They both pay for their gear, tickets, accom etc, and yet the cosplayer is the one who has to cough up the cash?

This.

>>9324583
Is the studio specializing in solely cosplay photography? If not, then having pictures created of people in costumes will not make their income, in fact, it'll likely just weird normal customers out. No person looking for a wedding photographer is going to trust a portfolio filled with Hatsune Miku, Batman, Satsuki, and the ilk. (Characters chosen for no particular reason, substitute characters with whoever you wish.)

Now if they are a successful studio specializing in cosplay, they can demand it because they likely have plenty of people offering to pay. One costume or group is not more special then any other.

>>9324577
So lie to them is better

>>9324480
I'm pretty sure that totally depends on how the cosplayer looks. Not that anon, but for all we now, that anon is a model or someone with mad cosplay skills.

>>9324595
It depends on if the photographer likes what they see. Stunning good looks and/or a brilliant costume may help, but it doesn't guarantee a photographer will feel like taking the picture. There could be a plethora of reasons the photographer decides they don't want to shoot for free. Besides, if they are a skilled professional photographer, they've likely taken many pictures of people with stunning good looks in their lifetime. One good looking lady in costume is just like the good looking lady taking glamour shots last week.

With that said, it's the photographer's right if they don't want to take pictures of people they personally find ugly and/or lacking photogenic qualities.

>>9324587
>in fact, it'll likely just weird normal customers out.
Well it depends on what you're shooting and how good you are. If the cosplayers looks stunning and the photo turns out excellent, I'd put maybe 2 or 3 shots in the portfolio if my normal clientele is casual stuff like senior portraits or family portraits. If you shoot more formal stuff like weddings and corporate portraits, then yeah you leave that shit out.

>>9324613
Even 2-3 shots isn't an abundance. I guess that's what I was saying, most photographers don't exactly require an excess of cosplay photographs for portfolios, even casual portfolios. Unless, of course, they specialize in just cosplay photography which I doubt is too common... outside those weird people who really aren't photographers who tout themselves as photographers. We aren't talking about those though.

>>9323941
can confirm, was wandering around a con and got stopped by a photographer for a photoshoot. Didn't pay one cent

Does Ichigokitty even have a job or does she just live off her bf?

As long as there is one cosplayer willing to pay a photog money, there will always be photogs charging.

I have a couple of tog friends who do photos for me for free, but I'll always assist for them for their other shoots in exchange.

>>9324529
Sometimes you need to be mean to get the point through the thick skulls of precious snowflakes who think the world revolves around them. This is just cosplay, they'll be in for a real shock in the real world.

>>9324732

Again simple rule.

Photog charging, if they suck, no one will pay. Also no one is forcing you to pay. You also want to be a dick, ask them for a receipt or use the Services section of PayPal so they get taxed. If they aren't claiming their shoots, then they may get flagged by the IRS eventually for evading taxes.

>>9324790
Except that isn't true, like, at all.

1, cosplayers don't know what makes a good photo. So they can't choose a good photographer based on his work.

2, most times, cosplayers book whatever shitty friend with a camera they have instead of looking at someone actually with skills

3, you've seen how many of these dummies that think that getting a point and shoot is REALLY THE SAME THING as hiring a professional photographer who has the gear, skills, and experience to take a great shot.

>>9324405
>. Nigri sells prints for $20 a pop. Granted it's fucking Nigri, but there's nothing stopping you from doing the same.
Yes. If you want to be a rich pop star, just become Britney Spears! It's not that hard, just do it! People will buy your albums!

Anon no, very few cosplayers actually get their prints sold unless they border on softcore porn or are super famous. Maybe friends will buy a few out of pity but that's about it. And commissioning too - I have a real full-time job and I barely have time to finish my costumes, making a commission would require the client to come in to be fitted and measured. Plus nobody wants to pay for cosplay commissions because you can get a shitty factory suit from China for $50. Honestly I swear photographers never have any fucking idea how much work and effort goes into cosplays.

And just so you know, the US is probably the only country where photographers charge money for shoots because you guys have to make EVERYTHING about money and business.

>>9324853
We make everything about money and business because you make everything about tits and popularity.

>>9324018
>I'm going to waste wear and tear on my shutter taking meaningless pictures
l m a o why are you even going to cons then? Don't answer that. I know you're a GWC at this point.

>>9323876
It depends, though I personally think the money should come from prints. An agreement between the photog and cosplayer to both be able to sell prints seems okay to me. Means the photog has to deliver if they want money out of it.

>>9324853
Can any semi-popular cosplayers comment on this more? How many prints have you typically sold if you're around 1,000 to 5,000 followers on Facebook?

An ex-friend of mine is actually trying to get money doing the cosplay whore thing on Facebook. I know she and some local photographers are selling pictures, but how many would people even buy? I can't see most people selling above even 20 with a few thousand followers.

>>9323876
It's their camera, what are they going to do, force them to take a picture? Whether I agree or not, if somebody isn't going to do something without being paid for it, that's the way it is. Pay them or don't get a photograph.

>>9324813
>cosplayers don't know what makes a good photo. So they can't choose a good photographer based on his work.
If a cosplayer thinks that another's cosplayer's shitty photo looks good then won't they just think their own shitty photos are good?

Cosplay photographers on cgl are the fuckboi equivalent of Coswhores with lewd patreons. They're in it for perks and freebies and hopefully sex and don't give a shit about anime or fandom or whatever. This is why they go ahead and assume that every cosplayer is the same way, wanting to sell their asses to the top bidder, and seem to hate their hobby so damn much.

IchigoKitty and a lot of the really old school people remember when photogs were nerds with cameras the way all cosplayers used to be nerds in costume, and the photography/cosplay relationship was more about mutual needing out then trying to fuck each other or fuck each other over.

It was a different community back then.

>>9324853
>Anon no, very few cosplayers actually get their prints sold unless they border on softcore porn or are super famous. Maybe friends will buy a few out of pity but that's about it.
Then start working on your networking skills and get super famous. I never said it was easy, I just said it's achievable. If you're already in the mindset that it's impossible for you to climb to the top of the shitpile that is the cosplay community, well that's on you. Or maybe you just realize that maybe you're just not quite as pretty as the JNigs of the world. Again, that's on you.


>And commissioning too - I have a real full-time job and I barely have time to finish my costumes, making a commission would require the client to come in to be fitted and measured.
See, now you're just making excuses. Skip out on making a brand new costume for one con and use that time and energy to do a commission. Yeah, it's a lot harder and requires more sacrifice to make money as a photographer than as a cosplayer. Tough shit. Life's not fair.

And If you think it's so easy to make money as a photographer, save up for a camera and do cosplay shoots on the side. If you can't be bothered to take the time to learn a new skill and consequently spend the majority of you con shooting people for chump change, then stop complaining about the people that do.

this is stupid. if you want all photographers to shoot for free then you should expect the quality of photographers at cons to go down. photographers do not have infinite time, time is a scarce resource, good photographers have multiple cosplayers competing for his services, and the one who offers the most attractive deal will get his services.
tl;dr if you're ugly and unpopular don't complain about photographers charging money because if they weren't allowed to charge you'd be getting no photos

Why does this topic have to keep coming up? No one is forcing cosplayers to pay photographers. And photographers, get over yourselves. You are NOT more important to the cosplay community than cosplayers.

>>9325135
>You are NOT more important to the cosplay community than cosplayers.
More important? No. More valuable? Absolutely. I mean, if you can magically make a new friend right now, either a competent cosplayer or a competent photographer, which one would you choose? What would a competent cosplayer friend really do for you? Get tips on making costumes? Do a group cosplay with them and have them possibly outshine you? You probably already have half a dozen cosplayer friends who can do the exact same thing. A competent photographer who'll give you all the free photoshoots you want is absolutely priceless in comparison.

>>9325087
Ichigokittiy has been popular for a long time though, and has had her pick of photographers willing to work for free. Now that there is money to be made from cosplayers willing to pay for shoots, of course togs are going to want to cash in on that.

The reality for the average cosplayer has always been settling for hallway shots of a costume, doing a shoot with a friend and a camera, or paying for "good" shots of a costume. She sounds bitter that togs have realized there's a buck to made and will no longer work for exposure.

However, I do agree that the number togs offering for-pay shoots at cons has risen. That's new.

>>9325162
I'd take the cosplay friend any day of the week. My cosplay friends watch anime with me and spend hours upon hours crafting and making props together. Then they carpool to conventions and share rooms with me and we do group cosplays. My friends who are photographers that will do photo shoots spend a couple hours taking pictures of the finished product.

You really can't put the cart in front of the horse. As others have said, if there were no cosplayers, then there would be no cosplay photographers. If there were no cosplay photographers, there would still be cosplayers.

I think a big part of the animosity (other than the photographers who are trying to make money and aren't really part of the fandom/community) is due to the face that people who don't cosplay don't true truly appreciate how much time and effort goes into making a decent costume.

>>9324940
Because, you peen-ass, booking shoots with people I wouldn't normally shoot with is how I pay for my conventions.

>>9325162
Okay... just because there was not a picture doesn't mean it didn't happen. Not all cosplayers feel the need to immortalize their costumes in high definition. I'd actually take the cosplayer over the photographer because what's the photographer going to do... help me put photos on the internet? Oh joy.

I don't think it is wrong for photographers to be paid for their work. I've stated this many times. However, for photographers to think they are 'more important' is silliness. That's insinuating every cosplayer is seeking some imaginary e-fame. I'm sure some are, but the majority could care less if they get a picture. I am starting to wonder if these threads are possibly being made by a photographer angry that no one is taking their random offers for paid-shoots.

>>9325314
>but the majority could care less if they get a picture.
With all the entitled cosplayers running their mouths about paid photoshoots, I somehow doubt that they're the minority in all this. And what are you dong in this thread anyway. You seem to be implying you don't care about being photographed, so why are you complaining about a service you have no intention of using?

>>9325330
Actually I've been defending photographers for most the thread. I do get a little miffed when it is implied photographers have a level of 'value' that rises above a cosplayer. I don't think people should let themselves become bitter toward the community as a whole just because some entitled cosplayers speak louder then the rest.

I understand bitching about people asking for photoshoots, and then going, 'Oh what the fuck is that cost for?' while going to complain to all their friends about unreasonable prices. That's not the community as a whole. Cosplayers shouldn't be devalued just because of the few who do act rude and immature about photography. It's not good that photographers are placing themselves on a pedestal in response to some rude assholes.

>>9325314
Vincent Anderson? Eugene Manning? Dave Yang? Jason Laboy? Kevin Eastman? Ed Yeung? Francisco De Jesus? Too many possibilities based off Facebook alone.

>>9325314
I'm also wondering if there are multiple photographers on /cgl/ with these misguided opinions or if it's just one guy shitposting.

time = money
nothing is free.

this implies to everything. now stop being faggots thinking one side is more important than the other.

Everyone remember Richard T. Bui?

Most new photographers are just like him, just are less obvious about it.

>>9325306
too bad I don't shoot with people not enthusiastic to make something incredible together. It's a collaborative effort, and you using a point and click to take generic uninspired garbage images you don't care about isn't that important.

>>9325474
>implying

I don't have a "point and click", and I'm actually quite proud of my ability to get great shots of people who I normally wouldn't try to shoot. That said, it's my camera, my time, and my skills. Yeah, the photographer is fully responsible for how good or bad an image is, but if the subject is shit, there's only so far you can polish that turd.

If I'm going to end up in one of these "bad photography" threads on here because I shot with some uggo who had her wig sliding halfway off her head, and a costume made out of saran wrap, nigga, I'm gonna get paid for that. Every shit photo I take tarnishes my brand.

I'm legit wondering wtf cosplayers are crying about. The average photographer going to cons shooting is like 20 bucks. You're really mad about paying a photographer Burger King money?

Granted, the vast majority of 20 dollar photographer work is absolute garbage. But, the "top flight" photographers charge what, 100 bucks for a half-hour shoot? Senpai, you couldn't walk in the door of aNY serious photographer's business with 100 bucks. Scratch that, you can't even get an hour of studio time for 100 bucks. The makeup artist alone might cost you 100 bucks just to do your face.

Cosplayers are ALREADY NOT PAYING MARKET PRICES FOR SHOOTS. So right there, you're already getting over on photographers. Now you want us to shoot for free? For what? How many of you have professionally constructed cosplays? Good wig styling? Non-amateurish makeup? How many of you look good enough to cause someone to stop scrolling through social media and like our pics? Next to none.

We get nothing from shooting cosplayers. Cosplay pics are not going in anyone's professional portfolio. Selling prints, as a photographer, is a fucking PIPE DREAM. Nobody follows us on social media, and half the time, the cosplayers "forget" to credit us when they post our pics (our property). Now you mad cuz we want you to hook us up with a couple of Super Value Meals at McDonald's? Suck my dick from the back.

>>9325518
Then don't fucking take them

>>9325135
It boils down to an east coast vs. west coast mentality. In California for example, its pretty unthinkable to pay for a shoot. I'm a very middle of the road cosplayer, I have never paid for a shoot, and I have never had trouble getting pictures of myself taken at cons. On the east coast, that's complete ridiculous. So both sides argue until they're blue in the face about who is right.

>>9325544
In the Netherlands, it's pretty much unheard of too. Apart from someone offering 3 touched up photos for 75 euros on fb today. But that's off con + that person is a real professional (her work being more professional than that of our regular convention photographers).

>>9325531
Wouldn't mind paying 100 dollars for top notch, but I would never pay 20 dollars for garbage.

>>9325535
Then /cgl/ bitches and moans that you only take photos of the beautiful and the cosfamous. There's just no winning you spoiled brats.

Ok, all, or none of this might already have been said, but as someone who has yet to wear cos, and is not in any shape a pro photog...

When I hear/read studio shoot, I expect stuff like lights, appropriate backdrop/green screen, at least an upper medium end camera, knowledge of the photog on how to get the best shot, minor editing (red eye removal, smithing blemishes).
For that level of setup, I'd expect to have to pay (Unless photog asks me for the shoot, in that case, the photog thinks that gratising the shoot will be ok, based upon what they can get from marketing/advertising with said photos)
Joe Smoe in the hall, or on the floor, however should not be expected to be a pro photog, and on spot shoots should not require payment.

>>9324405
Cosplayers usually have to split print proceeds with photogs fyi

As a fairly popular cosplayer, I'll say this. I've never paid once for a shoot, despite shooting with many of the better/non amateur photographers, both on the east coast and the west coast. I've also been paid before to model. If you're making photographers take photos of you when they don't want to, you're going to have to pay. If they want to take photos of you, you won't have to pay. It goes both ways. Of course you also have the photographers who contact you wanting to shoot with you, then try to charge you. They are shitters and not worth your time; most photographers who have decent photo don't do that, though.

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>>9325586
You don't need a studio or a ton of lighting equipment to do a professional photoshoot. Pic related was taken by a famous headshot photographer in LA named Dylan Patrick. He does all his shoots outdoors on location with only a single light source and possibly one reflector. Just as a reference, his current rates are $625 for 6 retouched photos. So think about that the next time you complain about cosplay photographers charging too much money.

>>9325665
>famous professional photographer
>cosplay photographer
do you see the difference

>>9325689
Yes. Keep devaluing the work of cosplay photographers. Maybe they'll collectively hike up their rates a couple hundreds of dollars because they want people like you to see them as professionals too.

>>9325635
Nearly all cosplay photogs are amateur, meaning, they don't shoot at a pro level, don't have portfolios, don't have any clients aside from cosplay people, and don't work with professionals. I'm saying this as a pro photographer. If you mean "non-amateur" in the "put gels and PS filters on every photo" sense, ok.

It's true, if photos want to take pics of you, it's extremely easy to get a photographer to want to shoot you for free: wear something from a Fandom the photographer is passionate about, actually become friends with the photographer (gasp!), or take your clothes off. Why are cosplayers mad? I think it's really because many of them believe that photographers are beneath them, and should be happy to have the privilege to take their picture. So many cosplayers I worked with are so stuck up, and I don't know where they get that ego from.

The reason photographers are mad is because cosplayers are essentially saying that we're asking for too much by charging. They're literally saying our work isn't worth money, when we're already giving them substantial discounts on a service that they're choosing to use, we're letting them shame us into shooting people we don't want to shoot through social media campaigns like Misa on Wheels', and we put up with all kinds of slander from them.

>>9323876

I am one of the better photographers and I never charge for a shoot, I am just selective and so are many other photographers. If you don't interest the photographer, they will charge you for work, if you interest them, it's usually free. It is the same way with cosplayers, except they are always being approached and can always say "No".

To me, it just sounds like you feel like you're entitled to free photos. But considering how you're using "15 years" as an anchor, it makes you sound like an old washed up cosplayer that nobody cares about anymore. You used to capture the attention of more renowned photographers, but now you don't.

This is a good way to travel through the photographer grapevine and get blacklisted, even by photographers who usually shoot for free.

>>9325665
This.

/thread

I've seen some amazing photos taken with just some sunlight coming in through a window, and a white piece of foam card as a reflector. This is why cosplayers get bamboozled by these weirdos charging by the light, or by the gel. They think all shoots are like these fucking America's Next Top Model shoots.

>>9325665
I haven't complained once about over charging, and if they have a light and a bounce, I'd expect some form of professionalism. That said, Joe Smoe in the hall at a con typically doesn't have more than a flash on the camera. When the shoot goes into retouch, and editing, yea, that costs both time and skill, just like knowing how to actually set up a shot, and as such, should be paid for.

>>9325531
This Katsu has been particularly bad, with average to bad photogs offering 2-3 pictures for a hundred dollars. Half the good people don't even take public bookings anymore (totally their right, and a respectable position as an artist) and the others give you one photo and want you to suck their dick for it. It's just reached the saturation limit for a lot of people. I'm not surprised some are having a hard time filling slots.

>>9324359
>both sides pour a lot of money and effort into the hobby for equipment and upkeep. cosplayers also spend on non-reusable supplies. it shouldn't be a competition over who's put more money in and thus deserves to get paid for their half of the product.

It's not photographers trying to make it into a competition. It's cosplayers like >>9324170 who think that just because they spent a lot of money on their costumes strangers owe them free photoshoots.

>>9325724
So just say "Fuck them" and don't work with people like this? As was said before, unless money was exchanged with expectation of services rendered, NO ONE OWES ANYONE ANYTHING. Seriously, just don't work with people like this, avoid them. Avoiding them doesn't make them go away or turn them into considerate people, but it at least does not bother you anymore. If there were a good platform to get these sentiments out in a respectful way, I am sure reasonable people on either side would be more than willing to share it.

I personally have no qualms about paying people who are worth it and I laugh and avoid people charging for shit-tier work or who can't deliver. I have also been asked to do shoots before too and was not charged. Instead I asked if I could get them food & drinks, or help with one of their other shoots. Not that difficult at all.

>>9325716
It wouldn't BE this way if cosplayers stopped patronizing bad photogs, and stopped talking shit about the good ones.

Its so bad now that you can't even tell a photographer that their pics aren't good anymore. If you buy a camera and post a cosplay shoot on Facebook, cosplayers think you're just as good as the best. When I see these fucking amateurs posting ads with blown out, blurry, "Dutch Angle", cliche gel pictures, I see red.

If people stopped paying money to shitty photogs, this whole argument would disappear. The good people would get work, the bad people would get pushed out, and cosplayers would get great photos. As someone who charges for shoots, I spend more time trolling groups looking for shoots and trying to get cosplayers to work with me than actually shooting or retouching. I have to compete not only against these fucking noobs, I have to educate cosplayers that can't tell the difference.

>>9325705
Nope, I mean non-amateur as in they shoot for fashion magazines and make a living off photography.

>>9325705
You knew this would happen when you decided you liked doing photography. I know many artists put up with the same behavior and attitude from those seeking artwork.

Some cosplayers are essentially saying you are asking to much by charging. As far as stuck up with an ego, if they agree to pay you without question, then you have no right to bitch about their attitude dealing with other facets of life.

>>9325800
Name one cosplay photographer that shoots for fashion magazines and makes a living off photography.

I'll wait.

>>9325747

It's this way because most cosplayers have a shitty attitude, just like HER. The good photogs don't wanna shoot with them so if they ask, they get charged a fee.

That's what upsets them because they live in a world where "they deserve better".

Not with an attitude like that.

>>9325689
This kind of portrait isn't hard to do. I've done this with a 40 dollar reflector.

>>9325430
>time = money
>nothing is free.
This.

>>9325877
Well, yea, cosplayers like her are the ones who are trying to make a career out of cosplay, racing to be next jnigs or yaya.

If you look around, there are cosplayers with great costumes and photogenic features who don't have the entitlement issues/shitty attitude and are pleasant to work with. But that would also mean you aren't purposely trying to shoot with the biggest attention whores in the lot thusly getting your name associated with theirs.

>>9325832
Just because they've shot my cosplays doesn't mean that they're a cosplay photographer, dumbass.

>>9324356
See, there's the problem with these threads. Cosplayers and photographers talking past each other comparing apples and oranges. One person complains about paying for a basic con street shoot, another about a model skipping a private studio shoot. Who spends the most on their hobby/trade. Who profits off selling cosplay photos. Who is more in demand/supply.

Just on and on in circles. If you don't want to pay, get a free one or ask a friend or ask a random and specifically ask them to send you the photo (give a card or ask for theirs). If you want to charge money, deliver your shit on time, no one gives a fuck how much you overbook or if you have a dayjob.

>>9325708
Well to be fair, 15 years ago there was no reknown cosplay photographers, LOL

>>9325716
All the good ones have been booked weeks to months ago, aside from some last minute cancellations. I know at least a few photographers who pretty much pull down their ads every Katsucon after a few hours of posting that their available for shoots. Of course these are also good photographers who communicate and pose people. All you have to do is let them know what series and character you're doing, so they can plan out poses and angles and ask us for any dream shots we want.

I don't mind paying, but I want a photographer who is putting my needs first, since I'm a paying client.

At least one photog I work with often at cons, has even giving me a free shoot in the past because at NYCC my job cut my hours so I had to cancel the shoot, and he didn't have to, but he ended up giving me a free 20 minute shoot, instead of the one hour shoot, with 3 edits.

Have a good business ethic and you can get clients, but be shit, be petty, and be money-hungry and you'll quickly get blacklisted. I've already stopped shooting with some other local photogs because their photos look the same and it's obvious they're just using an action or filter. Their photos are constantly over or under exposed but they have all these friends that just praise their work, even shit ones, or hit up people to photoshop them for them and post as if they did it.

>>9325800
That'd be a professional or semi-professional photographer. They either make most or some income from photography. There's a few, but I'm not going to be the one name-dropping names and getting their names smeared by jealous or petty Anons, vendetta or otherwise. I'm not going to throw someone under the bus for drama's sake.

>>9325832
EMCP. the new standard of cosplay photography

>>9325971
Disclaimer that I agree a friendly, professional photog who works with you in the shoot is totally worth paying for. Especially if they tell you if your wig is slipping or your pose us messed up. That feedback is invaluable, yo.

The top talent definitely can pick and choose and charge as much as they want for Katsu, including all kind of caveats, refusing to do groups of more than two, etc. Leaving the overpriced garbage charging more than their green box asses deserve for anyone who wants even bare bones documentation. These threads will calm down after Katsu until next winter.

>>9326041
Nah they pop up all the time around the big cons, so I guess SDCC is next, or Otakon, AnimeExpo, Pax East, or Colossalcon LOL

>>9326023
He definitely doesn't make enough, he can barely afford a con badge considering how many cons he ghosts asking the few shoots he has to meet him outside. He could barely afford the rent on the studio he was doing a year back or whatever.

>>9324221
>A camera is only as good as the person using it

And a cosplay is only as good as the model's body

>>9325939
NAME WHO SHOT YOUR COSPLAYS. STOP FUCKING FRONTING FOR CGL

>>9323928
This guy makes sense

>>9326116
There's only three possible reactions if someone named a photog.
1) Who the fuck is that?
2) Oh their photos are shit.
3) cgl swarms them for photos.
Why would anyone name a photog in a shit talking thread on cgl, they would have to be as retarded as you.

>>9324170
I don't believe you. I think your photos are shit. Post one. I double-dog dare you.

>>9324186
>>9324207

Nearly all my cosplay photography portfolio is photos at conventions. People can't believe it when I tell them I shot my stuff at Katsucon, or Anime Weekend Atlanta, or Anime Central. If your photographer can't take a good picture, it's because he has no imagination, not because the venue is bad.

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>>9326239
Well seeing how most "professional cosplay photographers' " photos are terrible it doesn't take much to be better. Just because you can crank up the exposure in lightroom and blur the skin to oblivion in photoshop doesn't mean you're a pro lmao

So many angry cosplayers
"Wahhhh why won't they give me free stuff"

Because your cosplay is shit

>>9326069

Who the fuck takes pictures at PaxEast? The venue blows and it's only worth wearing cosplay if you've got a big show-stopper and aren't going on the floor. Unless you mean boobie-armor boudoir sluts getting their patreon material, but they're not the ones bitching in this thread.

>>9326041
>Especially if they tell you if your wig is slipping or your pose us messed up. That feedback is invaluable, yo.
This. I don't think most cosplayers realize you're not just paying a guy to push a button on a camera, you're paying them for their years of experience and knowledge. 98% of the time I take a hall shot, the coslayers have absolutely no idea how to pose themselves. Like, you might think your pose looks good, you might have even been practicing it for weeks, but it looks fucking awful. For example, every female comic book hero cosplayer who poses standing straight towards a camera with their hands on their hips. THIS SHIT WILL MAKE YOU LOOK LIKE A FAT BLOB just for future reference, stop doing this. Or group shots of four or more people standing side by side, shoulder to shoulder. This is hot garbage and it's what everybody always seems to default to.

Then there's the facial expression. Pretty much everyone will give you a deer in the headlights look. Being able to coax your subject into giving you the expression you want is a skill in it of itself. Try it yourself right now, make an angry face. Chances are you're going to overdo it and make yourself look constipated instead of angry. Steering you away from that awful shit by directing you is the type of shit you pay a photographer for.

Think of it this way, would you commission a prop from someone who has never made anything cosplay related before? All the materials are there, they have detailed instructions to follow, but they have no first hand experience in making anything cosplay related before. Probably not. Because when you commission something, you're not just paying for a finished product, you're paying for the years of experience and knowledge that went along with making it. This is why your friend picking up a camera is not a replacement for an experienced photographer. Just because you have the same tools doesn't mean you'll get the same results.

>>9326317
>implying these ~pro costogs~ ever go through the effort of guiding their model
>implying cosplayers don't give their years of experience of costume making to put on the tog's portfolio
>implying most cosplay photographers are professional photographers to begin with
>implying years of experience shooting wedding portraits gives you any idea of how to shoot cosplays

is2g these self-important PRO COSPRAY PHOTOGRAPHERS

>>9324170
I spent over $3,000 for camera and lenses, likely another $1,000 in peripheral equipment and I'm still probably on the mid range, my camera isn't full frame and I only use mid-value prime lenses.

Some people spend tens of thousands on their equipment and have formal training for this and many just do it out of a hobby or free practice. Yes, the moment photographer spends with you as in individual is insignificant, but you are just one of hundreds, maybe thousands of pictures taken that con. It takes YEARS of experience to come up with a semi decent photo, probably a decade before people start giving a shit about your work. A photographer could potentially spend far more time editing all the shit they get from one con then you spent on that one costume.

I've been doing this for over 3 years and I still think my work isn't good enough to charge for, which is why I just ask random people for shoots, I enjoy the practice. If there is a photographer you assume is good enough to pay for, then don't expect free pictures from them cause you already assessed their value as being good enough for payment.

>>9326319
I took a knitting class once, okay cosplayers! Hit me up I'm open for commissions!

>>9324455
Because even the cosfamous would occasionally spend an odd 5-10 minutes for a quick shoot for free, happened with me plenty of times and I didn't even know who the hell they were at the time. If the people at the very top of your hobby are willing to do it for free, it's insane to expect a photog would ever bother paying anyone for a shoot unless they desperately needed a model for a location shoot, good luck on that when so many people would jump on that for free too. Cosplayers eventually want more than just random out of focus and poorly lit hallshots with random fat weebs in the background.

>>9324474
Taking pics at a con is a privilege since they paid for the permits in a private venue, however since it's their event you lose your right to privacy. Essentially it means the photog can do whatever they hell they want so long as it abides by con policy, i.e., don't be a pervert or harass people. That all being said, no one that has any self respect for their worth wouldn't take a pic of someone unwilling to be in the pic. Your bone to pick is with the GWC's trying to beat a personal record of random garbage on their SD cards.

>>9324548
Done a few out of con location shoots, I was the one that inquired for most of them, still never paid. Cosplayers typically get more out of than photographers, if they want money, I'll just find someone else willing to do it for free, believe me, there are plenty assuming your work is decent enough.

>>9326111
>And a cosplay is only as good as the model's body

If you're hoping I disagree and get all mad and ragey, you're wrong because I agree somewhat with your sentiment and I know many cosplayers that also agree.

For craftsmanship contests etc. body type and looks are irrelevant. Those are purely about technique and end result of the costume only in which case the costume and cosplayer are separate and only the costume is taken into consideration.

For look-alike contests and literal translations of a character for photography, similar body type with an excellent costume is a definite advantage. To appease SJWs/body empowerment folk, sure, anyone can cosplay anything the want within legal limits, but there's only so much a photographer can do if, say, someone's a hamplanet portraying a fighting game character that's supposed to be in shape, even in a nice costume.

>>9325747
I wish people were more honest about pics, feedback is so damn important when it comes to improvement. I guess that all depends on who's in this to improve and who's in this thinking they already know everything...

>>9326319
Well, you can easily tell which photographers guide their models BY LOOKING AT THEIR FUCKING PORTFOLIOS (or lack thereof), which these stupid-ass cosplayers NEVER SEEM TO DO.

Also, what "years of experience"? Just because you've been doing something for a long time doesn't mean you can do it well.

>implying experience shooting other genres of photography doesn't make you qualified to shoot cosplay

First of all, you're not a photographer, so how the fuck can you tell someone what's relevant experience or not? Composition, lighting, and post-production is the same for all photography. This is what I mean by dumb-ass cosplayers who think they know everything. You probably think it's not a real cosplay photographer unless someone's eyes are lit up and it has a fire ember filter on it like Jason Laboy's bullshit.

Is2g these ignorant-ass cosplayers.

>>9323928
>Getting your photos taken is not part of your hobby at all, it's the photographer's hobby.
yes. it's the photographers hobby as well. so why should we pay for you to do your hobby again?

>>9326319
>implying these ~pro costogs~ ever go through the effort of guiding their model
Your fault for only shooting with shitty photographers.

>implying cosplayers don't give their years of experience of costume making to put on the tog's portfolio
What makes you think you're worth being put in my portfolio?

>implying most cosplay photographers are professional photographers to begin with
And most cosplayers are not professional models. What's your point?

>implying years of experience shooting wedding portraits gives you any idea of how to shoot cosplays
Anyone good enough to spend years consistently making money shooting weddings is more than qualified to shoot nerds playing dress up.

>>9325971
>Well to be fair, 15 years ago there was no reknown cosplay photographers, LOL
That's not true at all

>>9326424
Because you're asking for a service. It's the same reason you don't ask someone who's hobby is to cook to cater your event for free. We've been over this like a dozen times in this thread alone already.

>>9326432
Cosplayers aren't good at logic.

>>9323876
This has happened not once but twice now while booking for a con:

>Post lineup, ask if any photographers want to do a shoot.
>PMed by a photographer who loves my work etc. I ask him what he wants to shoot.
>He picks the costume. We arrange a time.
>"Okay that'll be $100"

I find it in bad taste to arrange the whole shoot before you drop your prices, ESPECIALLY if you have no pricing sheets for the con listed publicly.

>>9326431
Who were known cosplay photographers back then?

>>9326377
>Essentially it means the photog can do whatever they hell they want so long as it abides by con policy, i.e., don't be a pervert or harass people.

Even though having sex with or pursuing a relationship with the cosplayers in the photos isn't actually against the rules....

>>9326424
Cosplay is a hobby, photography is a hobby. Photographing a cosplay and giving back a photo is a service. Cosplaying is not a service.

I am a cosplayer, firstly.

There are free photographers. Vast majority of photographers will take your photo for free at conventions and expos. Ya just ask. Some will sometimes throw in editing as well, but the majority will just give you the raw material.

If you are contacting a photographer for a shoot outside of a convention ie studio location, then you gotta pay.

Likewise, if a photographer contacts YOU outside of a convention setting for a specific location shoot, most likely they'll offer to pay you.

How much comes down to the individual. Some just want their travel paid for. Some want more.

It's all about who the fucking client is. The client is whoever ASKS for it. They're the ones who will generally paid.

>But I spent £500 on my costume!

Why should they care? That doesn't mean people give you free shit. Fuck, if you can spent £500 on a costume you can pay a tog.

And actually, they pay a shit tonne for their equipment. Yeah, some pay like £100, but it can easily go into the stupid money ranges (like over £10K)

>I spent HOURS on my cosplay

And they'll spend HOURS going through the shots they took of you, then editing them, so you don't look like a potato.

>Why should we pay for them to do their hobby?

Their hobby (and potentially their job) is taking photos. Taking photos of you is not their hobby/job - you are wanting to be made the subject, that makes it into a service. Services get paid.

>I paid for a tog and he was SHIT

well, do some fucking research. You don't buy shit from ebay without looking at the feedback.

>Models don't have to pay, why do I?

Firstly, ya ain't a model. Secondly, because the client is a 3rd person; they hire the photographer and the models to get what they want, and they pay the photographer and the models to get what they want.

>>9323930
I also agree. I think cons should be a free for all zone. Unless established beforehand to use the con space for a specific shoot or meeting at the con space to then move to a shoot location, it doesn't make sense to me for someone to pay for at con shoots.

A cosplayer put in money and effort for a finished (debatably) great final product, put in money to get to the con. A photog put in money for the gear, effort for a finished (debatably) great final product, and also puts in money to get to the con. Seriously, it's a pretty even scale I think unless you are booking a large chunk of time and place for a shoot beforehand-which would count towards the photog booking for work.

At the point where a cosplayer becomes a paying client, like.... they need to be treated like a paying client. Not to say the customer is always right, but I think most of this shit goes sour because photogs do not treat them like paying customers (long wait times, bad photos, etc) and its in part up to the cosplayer to do their research but that's more difficult to do when you're at a con and someone is advertising an open space in their booking due to a last minute drop out or something. Vice versa, if a cosplayer is not a paying client, then they need to not presumptuously act like they are entitled to the treatment a paying client would get.

>>9326442
For people so supposedly sex positive, body positive, removing stigma about sex, and all about female agency...

...you guys are surprisingly prudish. You're really mad if a guy asks you if you want sum fuk? Just fucking say no. So long as he doesn't put his hands on you, what's the problem?

I'm getting married next month. Considering how much I paid for my dress I can't believe the photographer I wanted to book had the audacity to ask for compensation.

>>9326458
>>9326452
>>9326432
These.

/thread

>>9326442
What people do on their own time is up to them, don't get why their should be a rule about that. If the photog and cosplayer wants to pursue a relationship, good for them, who the fuck cares. Being a perv in my opinion is being that one GWC that creeps behind cosplayers to get ass pics for his own personal fap collection.

>>9326452
All your arguments can be turned around. Photographers bought an expensive camera and put hours into their editing, why should we care? We paid hundreds of dollars and put countless work hours into our costumes. Why should we pay for their hobby when they don't pay us? Without cosplayers, they wouldn't BE cosplay photographers. And complaining about shitty photographers, I've seen photographers complain about shitty models just as much. And yes, professional photographers pay models to be in their photograph. None of your arguments justify why cosplay photographers should be getting money and cosplayers shouldn't. Like mentioned before, photographers should just stick to photographing weddings and whatever in case they want monetary compensation.

>>9326426
>Anyone good enough to spend years consistently making money shooting weddings is more than qualified to shoot nerds playing dress up.
The photo may have a perfect lightning and angle but it might not showcase the costume at all or make the model look like the character (i.e. posing, facial expressions). There's a difference between shooting normie portraits and cosplays.

>>9326540
There's this whole "they should" but it ignores the reality the market only exists the way it does because the demand allows it to. If you don't want to pay a photographer go to the others that do it for free. If you want the quality of work you expect from a professional photographer it's their right to charge you.

Why is this so hard to understand? A photographer's worth is only as much as what people are willing to pay them, if they charge 150 bucks per shoot, it's only the fault of whatever person that is willing to pay them so much money. Cosplayers can't expect money because there are probably at least 50 cosplayers that are willing to pose for free for every photographer that charges money. They will never exclude themselves from this market because human nature dictates an overwhelming percentage of us are narcissists that love attention from a good picture. The better quality a pic, the more likes you get, the more likes you get, the higher the dopamine feedback social media junkies get.

To cosplayers addicted to attention, the photographer might as well be a drug dealer to them, they can't help themselves.

>>9326453
>it doesn't make sense to me for someone to pay for at con shoots.
Let's make this simple

What service is being asked for at the given situation?

Does the cosplayer want a photographer? Pay the fucking photographer.

Does the photographer want a model? Pay the fucking cosplayer. Of course cosplayers are too dumb to ask for money so they'll just complain on the internet instead of doing something about it.

>>9326571
Way to miss the point of the post

In my circle of friend's who cosplay, we have 4 photographers. Two are hobbyists and two are professionals. Three of them will do shoots for free, if you consider giving them a few beers and dinner free. The one we ask to do cosplay shoots most often is one of the hobbyists. He started doing photography while he was in SCA so he knows how to get great shots of people in costumes. This is why I personally would never pay a person $20 for a 15 minutes shoot. In fact I think most people who are heavily invested in cosplay know people already. When photographers make offers to photoshoots at cons, they're getting the people who don't know a person already. I would believe the vast majority of cosplayers are paying them for two reasons. Either they're completely new to the hobby and don't have friends in the community (which in turn means there cosplay is most likely low quality) or they have a bad personality so no one is willing to work with them for free.

When you charge people money for a service, you have an obligation to be professional. The client has an obligation to be reasonable. This immediately disconnects you as part of the cosplay community. Making/participating in threads about how you don't like the community that you are trying to serve doesn't photographers look any better in the eyes of the cosplay community. To all of you people who think I'm getting shitty photos because I'm not paying for them, the quality of photos that I get are better than the ones the professional photographers were taking.

>>9323880
Fuck off. I'd bet all all the money I've spent on cosplay in the past 10 years that your photography is just as shit as every other cosplay photographer out there.

Kek, this thread is proof that seagulls are unattractive and unpopular. I never pay for shoots, and the photogs treat me to dinner after shooting.

>>9326614
Kek, I spy someone who doesn't understand the difference between the east and west coast photography scenes.

>>9326621
Joke's on you, I'm on the east coast.

>>9326614
You left out that part where you suck their cocks.

>>9326614
You and some rando photographer leave the con so that you can go out to dinner together? Or did you miss the part where this thread is about advertised con photography, not shooting at home with people you know.

>>9326625
Nah, I'm just popular and attractive enough for people to want to shoot me. Sorry you have to suck dicks for photos, though, that must be a hard life.

>>9326630
Have you never gotten dinner with a group of people during a con?

>>9326637
With a random photographer I met an hour ago? Can't say I have. I've gone out to dinner with people when I hit it off with them, but why would I waste two hours of my con time socializing with every guy willing to buy me a burger.

>>9326438
The only ones we had posted all of their photos online for free right after the con.

>>9326663
Let me explain it for you: you don't go out to eat alone with just the photographer, you go with a group of mutual friends. I guess it would be hard to understand for someone who must not have a lot of friends. It's probably also why you're unpopular and have to pay for all your shoots, you don't bother making friends with the photographers.

>>9326614
>sure they do

>>9326540
Yeah but the thing is, it's not just cosplay photographers that want to put the money forth. If people want good photos from a fine photographer, then money is a good enough compensation. This entire subject is a two-way street so there's really no argument that can justify just one side

>>9326540

If someone asked you to make them a costume, would you charge them?

>>9326697
Yes. Costume take time and effort to make. Literally anyone can take a photo.

>>9326610
I've seen so many ask for this as payment.

I also know videographers will ask for this as a form of payment as well. Travel and food paid for. I really don't get what people are getting arsey for.

>>9326614
I'm unattractive and unpopular but I've never paid for shoots. This seems to be an intellect based issue.

>>9326703
But it's your hobby to make costumes, so why should they pay for you to do your hobby?

Anyone can take a photo. Not everyone can take a good photo. It's up to the person who's requested it check that the photographer is actually any good.

It can also take up to several days to edit a shoot.

You're just ignorant to what photographers actually do.

As both a cosplayer and ex-photographer, this is what I think:
>On a convention; photoshoots are free for both parties.
>Outside a convention; photographer gets paid for his service*

*The exception being if the photographer asks the cosplayer specifically, instead of the cosplayer asking the photographer.

>>9326679
Your bait is getting stretched real thin there, friend.

Taking you seriously for a moment, I still fail to see why you'd want this random photographer hanging around with you and your friends, just because you get a free meal out of it. I've had (free) photographers try to hang out with me at con because I was friendly with them when we shot, and found it very annoying. The worst time was when one tried to follow my group of friends up to our hotel room to hang out, and someone accidentally let them in while I was picking up food.

>>9326637
>>9326663
This is 100% the stuck up attitudes of cosplayers. Some may try to hide it with varying degrees of success, but why the fuck would I shoot someone like this for free?

You cosplayers are going to get up off that cash EVERY TIME you shoot with me. I don't deal with stuck up girls in 2017.

>>9326703
>Literally anyone can take a photo.

Yes. But almost no one can take a *good* photo.

>>9326704
So because Donald Trump is going to do his job for $1 a year, does that mean you're going to do yours for $1 a year too? Do you idiots not understand relativity? That not everyone has the same circumstances? For many, cosplay photography is their hustle.

>>9326716
I charge for my at-con photos because I can take a great photo in nearly any environment. If your photography can't then you shouldn't be giving them money. Plus, cons may be the only time they can work with their specific photographer, or sometimes any photographer at all.

>>9326725
>photographer reaches out to try to be friends with you
>FUCK OFF WE'RE NOT FRIENDS WHY ARE YOU SO ANNOYING
>get mad because you don't have a photographer friend to give you free photoshoots
>WHY DOES SO MANY PHOTOGRAPHERS CHARGE FOR MONEY

>>9326736
Erm? I'm fine with photographers charging? I was saying cosplayers need to stop being arsey about it, as there are plenty of free ones out there and those that just ask for food/travel payments to be covered.

There are a lot of cosplayers on this thread that are acting as if EVERY photographer is demanding money. The fact is, it's actually a minority and those that do pretty much know their shit inside and out.

>>9326744
This.

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>>9326704
>I've seen so many ask for this as payment.
The photographer I use doesn't "ask" for this payment. I usually hang out with him and his wife (who is one of my cosplay friends) on weekends. If they're gonna come over to my place then I figure they're gonna get hungry at some point and he might want a few beers so I pick up the ones he likes when he's doing me a favor.

>>9326729
The good news is that you don't have to shoot "stuck up" cosplayers like her because others are already offering to doing it for free!

>>9326703
>Literally anyone can take a photo.
But not everybody can get a great shot. Some of my friends don't even know how to use their phone's camera. This is annoying because if I see another cosplayer doing something from the same series/franchise, I want to get a photo with them and that means I have to rely on friends taking the shot. I recently had one friend at a con literally take 3 shots in a row with a bright light source behind us. They ended up looking like pic related which isn't great if you're interested in seeing the costumes.

>>9326765
I mean in stead of an actual payment, they go "I'll do it if you pay for my food/travel" which I think is totally fair. I'm asking them to come out of their way to take a photo of my cosplay, and if that's what they want in terms of "payment" then I'm happy to do that - I'd be fine with monetary payment as well, but I've never actually been charged, per say.

>>9326703
Anyone can make a good costume, but it might not be good.

>>9326725
Do you not understand the concept of having mutual friends? Or of having friends in general? Jesus christ, your autism is off the charts. No wonder no one will shoot you for free.

>>9326729
You realize you quoted both sides of an argument, both the anon that was arguing that you should make friends with photogs and the anon that thinking hanging out with photogs is a waste of time, right?

>>9326744
I love how the photogs on this board get their panties in such a twist any time they think some cosplayer isn't bowing and scraping for their precious photos as much as they should.

>If I take pictures of you for free, you owe me a friendship

>>9326996
>If I take pictures of you for free, you owe me a friendship
If you never bother trying to make friends with photographers, it's no wonder you can't get free photos. Cosplayers that regularly get free photos from a photographer are usually (surprise!) friends with them.

>>9326996
We're not photo taking machines. We're human beings who like to feel accepted. Nobody's asking for their dick sucked, we just want you to be friendly, and not overtly act like you're using us for our service and will discard us as soon as the service is over.

>>9326996
>be a cosplayer
>see a really good cosplayer cosplaying something from the same series you're cosplaying as at a convention
>your cosplay group could really use that person for their cosplay shoot because they're really good and you don't have anyone cosplaying as that character
>cosplayer you just met offers to buy you and your friends dinner because they would like to get to know you and possibly become friends
>EWWW WHY WOULD I SPEND TIME WITH A RANDOM COSPLAYER I JUST MET STOP BEING SO ANNOYING JUST BECAUSE WE INVITED YOU TO BE IN OUR SHOOT DOESN'T MEAN I ACTUALLY WANT TO BE YOUR FRIEND WHAT THE FUCK
That's what you sound like

>>9326996
I love how some cosplayers on this board get their panties in such a twist any time they think some photog isn't bowing and scraping to their whims.

Like really, get over yourself. When did cosplayers become such a whiny, self-entitled bunch of divas?

Fuck, maybe I should quit cosplay - I clearly got my priorities wrong, thinking that photogs should be paid for their service rather than do all the free shit for me.

>>9327280
>When did cosplayers become such a whiny, self-entitled bunch of divas?

As soon a hordes of thirsty betas and white knights started exalting them to celebrity status.

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>>9327291

>>9327120
Calm your autism for a minute. Just because someone you met a few minutes ago doesn't want to go out to dinner with you doesn't mean they're an elitist, raging bitch. Maybe you're not as charming as you think, maybe they have plans, maybe they just plain old don't want to leave the con with a stranger. Just because you want to be friends doesn't mean they HAVE to accept your offer.

>>9327372
They were taking the mick out the person who had that attitude who they linked to.

>>9327372
I never once said I'm entitled to your friendship. All I'm saying is that if you want to treat your photoshoot like a business transaction, and you want to treat photographers like a freelance contractor, then don't be surprised that they treat you like a costumer and charge you money for their work accordingly. Don't bitch and moan about photographers charging you money for something they would probably do for free for their friends if you never bothered to befriend a photographer in the first place.

>>9327372
That's what an exchange is. I'm not getting money so you need to give me something else worth my time. If I ask a girl to dinner and she declines you can bet she's never getting her photos back.

>>9327529
>Exactly why I only shoot hot cosplayers

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>>9327529

>>9327529
Er...

I want to know who you are so I definitely never book a photoshoot with you.

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>>9327529

>>9327529
This kind of attitude out of both free and paid photographers is what gives them all a bad name in the cosplay community. As long as this behavior persists no one is going to take cosplay photographers seriously as professionals or as valuable members of the con community.

>first time i wear somewhat sexy costume
>spent all con on photoshoots with photographers with professional equipment

I think im going back to masks even though i get less shoots.

Here how you fix cons: Cameras with detachable lenses should be banned, and only a certain number of "professional" photographers are let in with special badges and are required to fill a certain quota for the con.
I spend my whole day walking around looking nice and not getting to have fun, let them suffer too.

>>9327665

Nah, preverted actions, rudeness, elitism, snobby attitudes, and awkwardness is what gives cosplay photographers a bad name. Look through the thread. Plenty of people are willing to book professional photographers. People are willing to pay money for a photographer who can handle a shoot responsibly and be a professional. It's all the other photographers that muddy the market and ruin it for the ones that are reliable and professional. These are the idiots that pick up a camera and start charging or the ones that charge while they practice, and cosplayers fall for it, because they're not even looking at photo quality. They just see a cheap price, $5 vs. $75, and then they bitch about the shitty photo they get from the $5 photographer or how creepy they were.

And this doesn't just apply to those charging, this also applies to the ones who shoot as hobbyist. The ones who are suspect tend to shoot with the same people, never shooting others or they constantly brag about how good they are or self-hype their photos. These are the ones trying to be cosfamous, and they're jumping at the chance to hit that fame by targeting the popular cosplayers, which is fine until you hit that window where you're just fame-hungry.

>>9327700
Just do what some cons do, have a photographer badge or do some vetting, or actually check badges, since so many photographers try to ghost cons now. Anyone without a badge or isn't on a vetted list gets banned, blacklisted, and loses their badge or gets charged one.

>>9327529
Yo, I agree with this guy. I once was shooting a girl, and I asked her for a picture toget her after the shoot was over. I go to put my arm around her, and she says, "No touching". Like, what? I'm not trying to Donald Trump this bitch, just take a non-autistic non-hover handed photo like an adult.

She ain't get those pics for over a year.

>>9327700
What's stopping you from having fun? The fact that no one is taking your picture? I thought you cosplay for yourself, and not for approval from others. The cracks in the self-important facade these cosplayers put out there is starting to show in this thread.

>>9327700
>>9327782
>Photographers false flagging as cosplayers, and vise versa just to star shit

>>9327787
I put that on my moms that's a true story. I wasn't ever going to give her the pics because it was a free shoot, and I felt super disrespected. But she tricked me into sending them recently. Good thing I didn't send her the good ones, or the ones in high resolution. Lol

Cosplay photography is not this autistic in real life unless you go to cons.

I've been shooting cosplay tfp(ussy) for years and have never once set foot into a con with my gear.

>>9327797
How does someone trick you into sending them photos

>>9327801
Tfp(ussy).

This is amazing, and is the only way I will refer to it from now on.

>>9327782
Hey now, some of us do have personal bubbles. I don't let people touch me, not even good friends. If that was the only thing she said that irked you, I wouldn't get so uppity. I mean, if she was nice the whole time, I wouldn't get weird about that.

Some people just really don't like being touched. I hate it. It's not even because I "think people are trying to creep". I know you ain't creeping, I just don't like touch.

>>9323919
Thank goodness

>>9327700
>Cameras with detachable lenses should be banned
So you want to punish anyone who owns more than Wal-Mart point-and-shoot camera? Wow what an asshole!

>>9327787
I'd bank on that being a true story. In any case, it happens often enough.
Seriously how fucking hard is it to ask to put your arm around somebody? I'm autistic as all hell and I know how to ask somebody for something like a human being.
You don't have to understand WHY humans work or think they way they do, you just need to follow the fucking rules.

>>9327700
Poor idea. DSLRs are very widespread now and normies will buy one for a couple hundred bucks and touch nothing except the autofocus because they want nice vacay photos.
AX (iirc) tried banning tripods a couple years ago.. or was it Otakon? Either way, that didn't work either.

>>9327701
I completely agree with you. If a photographer would hit on a cosplayer and gets rejected, then not deliver photos, that's just super creeper right there.
>preverted actions, rudeness, elitism, snobby attitudes, and awkwardness
This single act counts as all of these things.

>>9327782
I probably wouldn't have been "no touching" but I really don't like people putting their arm around me.

You should ask before doing any physical touching. It can be very alarming and invasive for a lot of people (particularly women).

I fully believe you when you say you weren't being a sleaze, but each person has something they're comfortable with.

>>9328109
Who the fuck even uses a tripod for a shoot? You're either using flashes or have good natural lighting so you don't need a tripod to eliminate shaking.

>>9328108
It's not hard; it's just socially awkward. I don't see an issue with someone asking not to be touched though. I'm not always fond of it myself.

>>9327700
>cosplayers already mad they can't get free photoshoots
>wipe out a large portion of the existing cosplay photogs that don't want the hassle of getting permission to shoot
>all that's left are the Jason LeFuckboys of the world who only shoots their cosfamous friends
Good game. Enjoy never getting a photo of yourself again.

>>9328140
No tripod by extension means no light stands. No light stands means you're probably stuck shooting with a flash mounted on your camera. Natural lighting is almost never 'good'. Sure everything is lit, but the lighting is going to be flat or boring. Controlling lighting is a fundemental aspect of portrait photography.

>>9328140
ask Dan Seiter. He uses a tripod everywhere and it's annoying to see him taking forever to setup his camera.

>>9324223
Con organizers do it for free.
Ah ha ha ha ha ha.
Maybe your local high school con.

>>9327110
I would I've got better things to do than take pictures for a pat on the back.
Ass, cash or lenses no one gets free photos.

>>9324223
>Also the best photographers I've experienced are free.

I've always done photography for free at cons. Been shooting since 2001 (my first con was 1997). I own four cameras but honestly my favorite is an analog 35mm Canon that was made in 1982. I develop the film in my darkroom (that I built for less than $200) which is WAY cheaper than paying Wal-Mart to do it.

Do I take great photos? Yes. Do I photoshop them to Hell and back? No. Does this make me a good/bad 'tog? You decide......but I haven't had a complaint yet.

>>9328370
Who of his friends are cosfamous? None of them!

>>9328470
I've never been charged for a photo and I've been cosplaying/going to cons for 8 years now.

Look, if you want to charge you can, not gonna stop you. Fact is, I'm gonna use McFree Photog over you. And if McFree Photog isn't available, my friends and I are pretty handy with cameras and compositions so we can do it ourselves.

Let's just get something straight. There's nothing special about anyone in this thread. In order to call yourself cosplay photographers you need cosplayers as the subject, and in order for us to actually get something back from our costumes we need photographers. We need each other, and that's the end of it. The mud slinging needs to stop.

>ITT: Whiny men who bought DSLRs to become ~famous professional cosplay photographers~ and are upset that nobody wants to pay for their shitty pictures

fucking thank god my photographers don't charge a cent and they're a lot better than the self-proclaimed "professionals" asking for money for their terrible pictures

>>9328470

The vast majority of East coast cons at least are nonprofits and the staffers take no salary. They do usually get free rooms for the con, badges, and food, though.

Cosplayer has been around for 15 years. Back in those days we didn't have 50 million cosplay photographers. We had Kevin Lillard, and waiting on dial up for your 300x500 px picture to finally load. You were lucky if someone got a good photo of your on their disposable camera. A few years later most of your pictures were from friend's point and shoots, candids and hall shots. Sometimes friends would do photoshoots. I did them too.

But eventually somewhere between 2007-2010 paid cosplay photography became a thing. I think it's nice to get some special high quality photos of yourself and it's fine and dandy to charge for your hard work. But I think at this point in 2017 it's gotten excessive, especially when some photographers have an air of elitism about their pictures. Bitch please.

>>9327782
Are you seriously being petty over that? Like the other anons said, some people have personal bubbles. Don't take it so personally.

>>9328610
That's BS! Most East Coast Cons are for-profit, they just are able to find volunteers willing to do it for free in exchange for a badge and room. The same with many cosplay guests. Although some cosplays guests also pay for a table, sometimes with a reduced rate, but still.

>>9328625
I want to say it's more like 2013, when all the nerd sites popped up and started having galleries. Before then most people just posted photos from their shoots on Cosplay.com or Tumblr, but there wasn't a call for cosplay shoots yet at cons.

>>9328610
>East coast cons
You mean Midwest cons?

>>9329172
Any cons really, but was addressing East Coast cons because of the other Anon

how is this thread so polarized? Cosplay photography is completely a free market?

> be me, a cosplay photographer in Canaduh
> start out taking photos at cons "can I take your picture?"
> practice photography in-between cons, but better gear
> cosplayers start being like "your photos are so good!"
> instead of taking hall photos I offer to spend more time with cosplayers I know (better photos when you can leave the crowds)
> people (that I haven't approached) see my photos on social media and want similar photos of the cosplay they work on

so at this point either I:
1. Keep being judge and jury for what cosplayers get my photos
2. Keep doing photos for free but let random strangers monopolize me on my literal vacation
3. Let people show their desire for my skill with cash as a paywall.

>>9323885
This
I did some lewd shoots with a photog, we were chill, he wanted no payment. I bought him lunch anyways to give him something. He refused to shoot any of my other cosplays unless I was intending on getting nude in a bed or a shower, unless I was willing to pay him

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>>9329216
> I wanted something
> they wanted something
> I didn't want to give them anything
> I still wanted the thing

okay.jpeg

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This thread is a shitstorm and I don't know why i'm doing this but it'll bother me if I don't

How cosplay photography is an excellent parallel to economists idea of a free market:
• The aggregate photography community has a supply curve that represents the lowest price (P) they're willing to charge based on how much business they get and their experience, we'll call the X axis "Quality".
• Individual cosplayers have their own demand curve, showing what they're willing to pay for quality
• Cosplayers have all the information through social media to connect themselves with the right photographer for their quality/price standards

• Cosplayers that pay shitty photographers too much for bad photos are eating the cost. They're not hurting anyone but themselves, and these mistakes flatten out in the long run.
• Photographers that do photos for free either are in equilibrium and aren't good enough to get customers, or are cutting themselves short at their own cost.
• Cosplayers that lower or raise their standards represent a horizontal shift of the demand curve

It's a perfect free market, with no intervention from government bodies or authorities.

>>9329211
>>9329240

Yeah I've been photographing for years in the cosplay community and I didn't charge. Cosplayers started tipping me, first $5, then $20, then the tips started getting bigger.

I still do plenty of free shoots (2-5 mins.), but started charging for 30 mins. and one hour blocks, as that's more time being blocked out.

>>9324711
She just lives off her fiance (yes, fiance). She locked that ugly fat wallet down pretty fast, so she's not really in any position to whine about money

>>9329231
Sorry, but they literally made the point that togs will do free shoots if they have material they can fap over.

>Naked = free
>Not Naked = gotta pay

>>9329518
Why the fuck would I far to half naked pics of cosplayers when there's terabytes upon terabytes of porn on the Internet of much better looking women?

I'm not taking pics of anyone for anything less than cash, or ass. Fuck out of here. Run that lonely man bullshit on someone else.

>>9323876
my favorite photographer was looking for subjects to help them out. they'd put me on their photography website to help showcase their skills, and I'd get photos taken of me.

I was allowed one photo free of charge, but the rest I had to pay a (discounted) price for. I think thats fair.

if a photographer wants to use my image to advertise themselves and is charging me full price for photography, they can fuck off.

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Truth? Or nah?

>>9329211
>1. Keep being judge and jury for what cosplayers get my photos
I see no problem with this if you're the one getting solicited. You could even be selective and charge for your services.
>2. Keep doing photos for free but let random strangers monopolize me on my literal vacation
No one is asking people to do this. You are under no obligation to do photoshoots for free.
>3. Let people show their desire for my skill with cash as a paywall.
This is fine as well but once money is exchanged you are expected to act as a professional.

The bigger complaints I've heard is photographers who charge money and then are creepy and hit on the cosplayer during the photoshoot or ask for nudes and go so far as to hold the pictures ransom if they don't go to dinner with them. Most of the bad behavior really just falls in the "don't be a dick" category.

The original comment in question was lamenting a time when there were no "professional cosplayers" and thus no "professional cosplay photographers." It didn't mean that no one had skills, it just meant no one was trying to make money off their hobbies. The times have changed and if you got a skill people want, feel free to charge for it. I wouldn't make someone I didn't know a cosplay for free.

>>9329518
I'm fine with that? what's wrong with fap material being a transferable good?

Newsflash: people can literally do whatever the fuck they want

Talking to someone about lewd shit when they're in a compromising position is fucked up, pushing someone further and further during a shoot is fucked up.

Talking to someone beforehand about what each of you want and will get out of a situation is fine. If you're both showing each other respect, anything short of trading sex is pretty a-ok as far as societal norms are concerned.

Why is everyone in this thread so awful and entitled?
If you don't want to pay a photographer then don't book one that charges, it's that simple.
I'm also really sick of hearing the argument "but I already spent so much money on my cosplay!! I shouldn't have to pay to have photos of it too!!"
Like you need to understand that photographers are providing a service and they have every right to charge for that service. If you need free photos so badly take them yourself or ask a friend.

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>>9330159

>>9330185
Hey if a girl said they'd wanna shoot, but then can only pay with sex or a BJ, I'd be game. Although I'd also be judging them on how easy they were and what STDs they may or may not have. It's the thought that counts though

>>9330187
Having people wanting people of my cosplay IS the payment IMO. Nothing like having a bunch of con goers running behind me wanting pics of the beast.

>>9329979
You might not, but another photog would. Everyone is different, no need to get so shitty.

I wouldn't do a lewd shoot, some cosplayers do.

>>9330185
I was responding to >>9329231

I don't care if you do or don't. I was just reiterating >>9329216 point that (some) photogs will do it for free if it's lewd

>>9330187
People in this thread are either

>too stupid to understand logic
>too autistic to posses empathy
>too sociopathic to care about logic or empathy
>all of the above at the exact same time

>>9329240
I'm glad at least one other person in here took Macroeconomics 101.

>>9329518
It's almost as if cosplayers willing to model nude (and who look good nude) are scarce, and nude photos are more valuable in a portfolio, and as such, the value of modeling nude is higher than the value of just standing around in a costume.

Nah, it must be that all photographers are desperate perverts. There's no other possible explanation.

>>9330467
Nude photos aren't more valuable in a portfolio, especially in cosplay. Cosplay photographers place more value on nudes because they like looking at naked girls. Semantics, I know, but still true.

As it stands now, there's no incentive for modeling nude in cosplay. If there was enough cash in it, you think cosplay hookers wouldn't be lining up?

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>>9329240
Modeling cosplay photography economics should probably look more like an international trade graph with dumping.

>>9330498
What makes you think cosplay photographers are exclusively cosplay photographers?

A lot of us have higher ambitions, and want to get photography jobs or gallery shows.

>>9330498
>there's no incentive for modeling nude in cosplay

Patron money from desperate fuckbois

>>9330467
Where did I say that photogs were perverts?

You know, that's three photogs now that have seen something in that post that simply isn't there. Considering 'an eye for detail' is a must have for good photography, gotta ask why you're seeing something that isn't there.

>>9330716
You literally said
>they literally made the point that togs will do free shoots if they have material they can fap over.

Are you so out of arguments that you're reduced to trying to quibble over semantics?

>>9330675
The quality of work shows otherwise.

Also, galleries look down on gels and Photoshop fire filters / actions.

>>9330696
They don't get naked though. Most of them are so egotistical, they'll just put on some grandma lingerie, and feel that they're irresistible enough to charge 20 dollars for a badly lit, often out of focus picture of themselves.

>>9323883
THIS MAN GETS IT!

I work for free because I have a (well paying) day job. It means that I can not say have to rush through photos because I will get them done, but it will be a bit of time.

Now if you charge you damn well better be a professional, communicate with your clients, have a track record, backups, etc, but THIS.

>>9330728
Ah, I was saying that more to what another person said before.

Also, personally I don't think that as perverse. It's pretty human to do.

>>9330911
As a photographer, I find the concept of fapping to my own photos particularly perverse. It's like being attracted to your own child.

>>9323885
This perception is a big part of why I quit cosplay photography after breaking up with my exgf. I can't stand being lumped in with guys like that.

>>9330946

THIS.

Only someone like Andy Warhol could get away with that type of shit.

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>>9331018

>>9331178
This is the kind of photographer you have to be to get into galleries these days.

And he's a bigger perv and worse photographer than the average con shooter.

Here's a general consensus of how much photographers should charge based on their skill level, according to a popular photography community PetaPixel.

Hobbyist: Free or (under $100)
>literally guy with camera. These are the ones who shoot for free at cons.

Amateur: $25 – $75 per hour.
>same skill set as hobbyist, except they're more experienced with selling their service and probably have facebook page or a portfolio. "professional csoplay photographers" fall in this category

Student: $50-100 per hour / $25-100 per image.
>basically an amateur photographers who are a few courses into their photography/fine arts major.

Semi-Pro: $50–$150 per hour / $25-125 per image.
>this is where the top tier cosplay photographers falls.

Professional: $75-$250 per hour / $75-$250 per image.
>these are people who make a living on photography and photography alone. You won't find a lot, if any cosplay photographers at this point.

Top Professional: $200-$500+ per hour / $250-$1,500 per image.
>this is Annie Leibovitz

https://petapixel.com/2016/02/26/much-photographers-charge-2016/

For the most part hobbyist and amateur photographers in the cosplay community have been charging accordingly. If anything, it's those semi-pros that have been severely undercharging for their work. They should be charging no less that $100 per shoot. And according to this list, if you believe you're shooting with a really good semi pro, you should be giving them $100 PER PHOTO.

>b-but this is cosplay photography! those prices are irrelevant because those prices are for professionals!
Professionals and top professionals are the only ones on that list who work as photojournalists/studio portrait photographers/wedding photographers. The other four tiers are all non-professionals, which is what cosplay photographers fall in.

>but cosplay photography is a hobby not a job!
It's up to the photographer to decide if what they're doing is a hobby or a job.

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>>9331223

>Semi-Pro

Cosplay Photographers don't ever get up to that point, anon.

>>9331223
>>9331229

A cosplay photographer is a semi-professional the moment they start getting paid for photo shoots, but the payment isn't their primary source of income. And out of those, the most successful is probably Martin Wong, and that's only because he has a large following and people donate to his Patreon, since he's collecting $540/month right now.

>>9331253
Isn't Beethy more successful? He just made his Patreon and it's already on $300+ per month last time I checked.

>>9331229
beethy is doing pretty well for himself
darshelle stevens too but i'm not sure how much photography she does nowadays. i think she mostly gets by on her looks now, but her photography was always really nice.

>>9330946
I was talking about it as perverse towards the cosplayer. imo that's if you were being rude/offensive/explicit whilst on set or before and after. But that could easily fall under unprofessional as well, I suppose.

Plus, it was also pretty much being said that I implied a lack of consent going on.

>>9331210
You obviously don't understand the avant-garde and sex positive philosophy of people like Richardson and Nobuyoshi.

>>9331253
>>9331286
>>9331292
That's only if you define "success" with money.

>>9331292
Darshelle's not making much on her photos compared to the photos of her in swimsuits and lingerie. Let's be real, LOL

>>9324359
What sewing machine you get anon?

>>9332082

A Bernina. Totally worth it.

>>9331292
Yea, but no body pay her enough for her photography

>>9324560
>>9324566
>>9324569
But who was lawyer?

What is your bar number?

>>9325463
Bui is a pedophile and sexual predator, it was never about paying him to take photos. Stay on-topic.

>>9324359
>and my sewing machine was a thousand dollars

This reeks of bullshit.
>pristine vintage
>most expensive brand that comes with all the bells & whistles while not knowing how to shop for discounts/deals
>cumulative price of repairs so far (or even including future repairs)
>super ripped off

>>9332451
Have you ever shopped for top of the line machines? Shit goes for $10k+. You can get a very decent embroidery machine that can also do normal sewing for a thousand bucks. Embroidery accessories and new feet are also a pretty penny.

>>9332451
Sewing machines are expensive. My one, which is actually pretty low specs for a machine, was still £200.

You can get them under that, but you are forgoing reliability and function if you do.

Anything with an embroidery function on it is extremely expensive. Hand embroidery is a bitch and painful and time consuming and 5 months in you're still not finished and you're seriously debating just starting from scratch and painting the design on cause fuck that would be so much easier.

>>9323876
The majority of cosplayers are not professional models.

Most photographers do more than just cosplay photography. They do weddings and other events.

They are professionals, you are not.

These threads are always the same when I read them. Honestly a lot of the photog friends I've met started charging because they were being treated like shit. My friend who I love working with got fed up when someone 'threated him to dinner' by giving him their half eaten leftovers and I stopped free photoshoots when people would bail on me with no notice or drag me around until they were ready. If you're getting charged it probably means your costume wasn't great or your personality is shit. I'd love to see what would love to see what would happen if paid photoshoots died down and how many people would complain no one would take a photo of them. I'm more than happy to only work with my friends and have my friends shoot with me. If you're going to bitch about shit photographers and how they only spend $200 on their cameras then why don't you buy one yourself and do it yourself, literally nothing is stopping you other than holding off on one cosplay.

>>9333474
The cost of the camera doesn't mean anything. It's the skill of the photographer that makes the difference, and most of these mfs ain't got no skill.