/ouG/ - Boystyle General: What is AatP Smoking edition

Baby NYC has ouji salos on sale, some half-off: https://www.bssbnyc.com/collections/winter-sale/pants

for Aristocratic folk with shoulders arouns 43.5cm, a 3,500 yen white shirt with an interesting ruffle, possibly stand-up, collar: http://www.m-closetchild.jp/phone/product/85663

Anyone know where I can find shoes suitable for EGA in a UK size 12? I've looked around but most things on western goth sites are ugly/bulky and Asian sites don't usually carry my size. I know Antaina does custom sizing but they don't seem to have anymen's models.

>>9323204
Doc Martens are a respectable brand many goths use, Goth Pikes on Etsy have a great rep but i am not sure if pikes and winklepickers are what you might consider "ugly" (aside from size and genre, your criteria are vague), Demonia/Pleaser have a wide range of styles, and Gentlemen's Emporium has spats as well as shoes/boots so you can change up the look of your footwear now and then.

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I need a ouji/aristo senpai.
I want to get in to a more androgynous lolita style. I don't have the best eye for the ouji aesthetic yet.
Would a set like this(vest and pants only) be worth while for getting started? I would still need a blouse, accessories, and maybe shoes.
I have a great pair of wing tip oxblood colored oxfords.
Suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

I have really long hair, mid back length. How should I go about styling it?

>>9323623
Post pic of shoes and I'll suggest options.

>>9323642
Think Anne Rice/JRPG vampire

>>9323623
buy things that fit you that you like from quality brands. it is hard to be specific with advice when you are vague.

>>9323642
what is your preferred substyle (gothic, classic, sweet, punk)? do you have bangs? is it layered? how's your hairline? is your hair noticeably thinning on your scalp? does it have a natural curl or wave?

gulls pls be specific, use the blogs in the OP to get a sense of styles you like.

>>9323681
I'm female. My hair is really full but not coarse and generally easy to manage. Straight texture. I have long layers but none shorter than shoulder length. I have a side swept fringe that I'm working on growing out. My problem is that I think I look to femme when I wear it down

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>>9323665
similar to these

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Selling a Ouiji AATP Tourinot Vest if anyones looking for a nice black vest :) https://egl.circlly.com/auctions/aatp-black-tourinot-vest

>>9322411
I cannot get over how ugly this is. That collar looks like an exploding box of tissues and I feel like anyone who tried to wear it would just look like they were drowning

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Aatp's next ouji set

>>9325660
this is surprisingly decent

>>9325660
Wearable clothes for once

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>>9325660
this is my ideal length for ouji vests. hope it will come in men's!

>>9325660
>>9327263
I don't dabble in the lolita/ouji side of this board often but holy shit, I absolutely love this. Does this have a set release date/price yet? I apologize for asking kind of a spoonfeeding question.

Could someone me reccomend something aristo that's long and drape-y? I'm a male and begginer...tall and medium sized

>>9327914
A cape...?

Come now, anon, you're going to have to be more specific.

>>9328024
Sorry, I mean like a top or jacket type thing that I could base a coord off of, something with long sleeves preferably, and not very button-y. Thank you in advance if someone wants to help me out :) Any reccomendations are welcome.

>>9327263
Looks like Excentrique, but probably cheaper (but smaller)...

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>>9328145
Moitie has tops like that, but what are your shoulder and waist measurements? "tall" and "medium" is relative. also if you have a picture of anything similar to what you imagine that would help.

>>9328174
Bozish, too (pic related, though not the best example)

>>9327263
It looks like older AATP, back when they still did decent, mature-end ouji.

>>9328178
I adore that. Thank you.

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>>9328248
RIP AatP's golden age of ouji

Boz top: 48cm shoulders, 4,104 yen, for gothic oujis and aristocrats: http://www.maidenclothing.net/script/detail.php?id=154069356001

>>9330784
That picture is Atelier Boz...

>>9332625
AatP was never good

Let's talk about posting ouji coords to Closet of Frills. What makes a good CoF post for ouji? I've noticed that sometimes, relatively basic and uncreative coords (wearing a set, or wearing few/no accessories) will get a large number of likes, while coords that look more interesting and thoughtfully planned can be largely ignored. Have any of you guys noticed this? It seems having a penis will get you a good chunk of likes by default. Is there anything else we can do to get our likes up?

*Obviously likes aren't always indicative of quality, and don't REALLY matter, but that doesn't mean it isn't worth tall in about.

>>9332891
What I've noticed is that the most important thing for getting likes is having good lighting and nice picture quality. Of course, this doesn't guarantee likes, but if your coord is mediocre but your picture looks nice you'll get many more likes than if your coord looks good but your picture is of mediocre quality/it's hard to make things out. Apart from that I think it's also a large part luck? Posting at the right time and getting enough likes at the beginning so that your coord will show up on many people's timelines helps.

>>9332708
Woah woah woah. I will agree with you on 16/17 releases, but pre-2010 Aatp is full of gems.

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Deorart has a small sale, including pumpkin pants and swallowtail vests. Not applicable on the CD Japan site, it seems.

http://www.deorart-shop.jp/fs/drsp/c/sale

>>9334223
I think that it was around 2011/2012 that they started going downhill - it was after they changed their designer. They've occassionally released some nice designs but then spoilt them with questionable fabric choices, or odd trims. It's once in a blue moon now that I check the BABY website these days.

>>9330784
>>9332625

As anon says, this is Atelier Boz, not AatP. Akira's modelled for both brands.

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>ouji-zus kei

all right lads, do you keep the mandible mantle or no?

>>9337064
>tfw no Prince of Peace bf to go with my OTT Classic religious-themed coords

Why live

>>9337064
All I'm seeing here is a young sea captain, or an airline pilot, with or without the facial fluff.

>>9325660

>Tfw it probably won't come in a mens size

>>9337064
>do you keep the mandible mantle or no?
no

>>9337982
Boz makes similar but with better value for your yen, anyway

>>9337064
Nice filename

>>9337982
Their facebook posts listed men's size on both items

>>9337064
If technotropism and steve tyler morphed together do you think they would have an average sized mouth?

>>9335636
the sale costs more than monthly wage in 2nd world and shipping is another fortune. at least I can read these threads.

>>9340804
pray for local Lacemarket/Facebook sales.

>>9340807
these don't exist. I seen only 'self-crafted' 'gothic' lolitas around and I wish I didn't desu.

>>9340808
that sucks, gull

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this is unique

>>9340925
So is wearing a used bedpan as a hat.

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not sure how i feel about this style of tights. wearing tights under shorts is inconvenient anyway.

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>>9340925
>>9343098
Printed zippers, printed sock garters... both look so ridiculous and cheap.

What's next, pic related?

>>9340925
Is that a boy or a girl? I can't tell with Asians.

>>9343114
it's a shoop

hey, Closet Child has the makings of an ouji wizard coord for all you virgins approaching 30

put on your robe and wizard hat here:

http://www.closetchildonlineshop.com/product/117922
http://www.closetchildonlineshop.com/product/117911

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found

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Does anyone have the template for pic related?

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>>9348142
It's in the Ouji fb group.

>>9348142
This is really cringey, please don't do this

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>>9349636
You must have lots of friends don't'cha?

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those shoes you like are going to come back in style

>>9349773
The model looks like an actual child, these clothes look so unflattering on her.

Also is that a twin peaks reference?

>>9349780
Funny considering she's talking about quitting modeling due to being "too old", Midori is a bit over 30

>>9349827
Photoshop, lighting, and tailoring can make anyone look like a child in their parents clothes.
Midori's face isn't suited for ouji either.

>>9349827
>considering she's talking about quitting modeling due to being "too old", Midori is a bit over 30
Where did you read that?

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>>9349780
>Also is that a twin peaks reference?
yes, it is

semi-related, but considering Japan fucking loved Twin Peaks and FWWM more than Americans did, i am hoping for a brand (even indie) release that has something to do with the series once the new episodes air

would it kill Mana to do a David Lynch collab, i mean seriously he's already done a fanvid

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brand blouses too small? Men's Closet Child has a black-and-red rose velour shirt with a ruffled front, 46cm shoulders, 51.5cm bust, only 1800 yen: http://www.m-closetchild.jp/phone/product/86064

might be good starter blouse for gothics too big for mens Boz/Moitie

>>9349971
She mentions it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=esqBCRHsf-4

Why don't more indie designers release ouji sets? Making short pants can't be that much more difficult than a JSK or OP. And a masculine blouse or vest wouldn't have darts to fuss around with.

>>9354272
No market

>>9355312
Considering most indie designers struggle to find a niche and arguably lack a market themselves, it seems like it would be worth it for a few to branch out and give it a shot.

>>9354272
Honestly I've been thinking about starting up shop specifically just for ouji shorts for people who cannot fit brand short aka me and every other person here. As well as tailor brand shorts/pants to fit the owner.

>>9354272
>>9356083


I think the real reason is that prints rule at the moment, and the width of the lolita skirt makes it much easier to slap a nicely detailed print on it that girls can easily view and appreciate at any distance. I've still yet to see a good design for print ouji, not really sold on those Meta gilets either, when worn with pants the print just collapses on itself, you can't see anything.

If you want to see the epitome of indie taking patterning shortcuts, though, check out Enchantilly and 3F. Fully shirred bodice with a rectangle skirt, probably fits sizes XS all the way to 3XL. No need to create different pant sizes for different-sized hips and waists, even across a wide range. So yeah, creating short pants patterns would indeed be a step up in difficulty since they'd have to manage three sizes instead of one.

>>9356129
This. My friend has a small brand, dresses need tons of details but in terms of sizing, pants require so much more time and craft and get the fit right while the market may very well be 5% of the one of dresses, it takes dedication and risk management. The skirt part is a blessing and hides the bottom half of the body under one roof.

Of course design is important too. Most ouji on the market referenced early aatp at some point, and imo no one has been very success in being creative at ouji compared to lolita dresses.

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>>9356612
>imo no one has been very success in being creative at ouji compared to lolita dresses.
sadly agreed. i believe it would be productive for brands that make ouji clothes to reference 17th-18th century menswear more often. there is nuch untapped opportunity for colorful, frilly clothing design in that period that is overlooked.

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>>9356843
it also seems that menswear of that time included structural support for a bit of coat poof, but i have not researched this much. imagine the ouji equivalent of a petti, like a partial cage to support flared coats or buttcapes

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>>9356846
and, final point: for ouji, i think the orientation of prints needs to be vertical, rather than lolita's horizontal. border prints made sense for lolita because of the shape a petti gives, and even all-over prints are mostly focused toward what happens along the horizontal line of the hem. in Rococo fashion, decorative trim on men's coats seems to be more likely to appear along vertical borders. designing the modern, ouji equivalent to pic related would require rethinking conventional "border print" wisdom. long gilets, jackets, coats, and even capes are more suited to vertical prints. i imagine pants and shorts could be, too.

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>>9356843
I just don't understand why brands can't go and do nice textured fabrics or detailing like this. I know it obviously would cost more but I'm more than willing to pay a lot for a ouji jacket with this amount of detailing put into it.

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speaking of indie brands and unusual fashion inspo, Ikemon Mode just posted this teaser for their kimono-inspired spring collection

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>>9359914
this gif includes a past kimono-based ouji design. i just hope they actually put the collection on their website, they still have not updated their shop with any of the main pieces they sell at conventions.

>ouji gets more popular
>I get more salty about people's coords

How do I not be an insecure asshole

>>9361391
seek therapy to address the underlying issue

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Nobody wears plaid.

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What are the most Aristo style of shoes?
I'm trying to set up my first coord and I can't figure out which set of shoes to get.

I don't want the shoes to look feminine, either.

Is something like pic related sort of kind of close?

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>>9366571
something with a similar shape would be pikes or winklepickers, both of which are staples in gothic fashion. those shoes in your pic have a feminine shape, i think, but you might find something less femme by searching for winklepickers or pikes.

pic related is a winklepicker

>>9366571
the larger your feet and short you are the worse a pointed toe is going to look, find some you can try on before buying if at all possible, even if its just to see how the shape looks on you. the shape of a dress shoe or boot is important

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Is it feasible to try to pull off long hairstyles like this with a lace front wig? I really like the whole mid 1600's look with long elegant hair, but im afraid it will look like I just threw on my girl's Lolita wig.

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>>9367144
not sure if lacefront, but this dude wore some bangless wigs

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>>9367144
Technotropism uses his natural hair like that with varying amounts of success.

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>>9367162

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>>9367166

>>9367162
>>9367164
I'm not too familiar with wigs, this style could work too. I guess I assumed bangless = lace front.

And yeah I dig his hair but I gotta a couple more years of growing mine out to be there.

>>9367166
Yeah this is perfect! Thanks for that I see now I just have to avoid too much volume so it doesn't look overly feminine.

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this woman makes the coolest ouji shit i stg

>>9323349
Docs really don't look great with Aristocrat. They're too clunky, too punk, as a whole.

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>>9369974
Docs come in all shapes and sizes, and Mana disagrees with you re:chunkiness anyway.

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>>9373811

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>>9373815

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>>9373816
those pics make me want some platforms like whoa

but anyway, here is one example of non-chunky, non-feminine Docs. their range of styles is broad

Dead thread
Dead style

>>9373832
It's definitely a slow thread, but I kinda feel like the style is more popular than ever?

>>9374065
Do you? Or are you asking me if that's how you feel?

Why phrase a statement as a question, or are you doubting yourself?

Protip: You should because you're wrong.

>>9374073
Nah, I was just using the question mark as a short-hand for "what do other people think?" Sorry, that wasn't the best phrasing on my part.

I just feel like I've been seeing a significant increase in the amount of ouji coords posted to CoF, for instance. I could totally be wrong though. Why do you think it's dying, anon?

>>9374082
It is probably dying because the main brands are slowing down production and output of Ouji/Aristo pieces, especially in North America, and leaning more towards selling their more popular lolita pieces that aren't ouji.

Coupled with Ouji being demanded less from the main brands by consumers due to their substitutions with low quality offbrands that are cheaper (also explains the higher amount of "coords" you see online) which pushes brands to slowly phase out the style from their stores.

Why do you think it's dying?

>>9374108
Hm, that's an interesting point. I guess the issue for me is whether a shift away from the main brands towards lower quality alternatives (assuming you meant taobao?) means the style is "dying," if this transition results in more people wearing the style overall. I mean, I definitely think it's a change for the worse, but it doesn't mean the fashion is dead. I'm hopeful that for most of those people posting in CoF, that their lower quality alternatives are just a gateway drug, and that they'll eventually come to appreciate the brands we know and love.

>>9373832
it's more popular than it was 5 or 10 years ago. there was a surge in popularity in the last couple years that might be dying down, since it came from lolitas who were trying something new.

it's far from dead, and many lolita-friendly conventions lately have had ouji-specific programming, which is a very new thing

>>9374108
>the main brands are slowing down production and output of Ouji/Aristo pieces, especially in North America,
Boz still regularly releases stuff, as does the cringy AatP, and there are only two NA indie brands i know of that do ouji (Elegy and Ikemen Mode) and they have not slowed down output.

there are also more posts on CoF and a lot of activity on instagram. this thread is slow because the board is slow, even regular jgoth/gothic lolita threads die out before reaching 200 and jgoth is way more popular than ouji.

we are in a similar boat as the vkei thread, a slow but steady general that lasts for weeks or months before reaching 310 and is then remade, with mostly the same few people keeping it going. additionally, some oujis stopped posting because they were memefied. (dude, make your vlog channel already. haters gonna hate.)

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speaking of lolita-friendly cons, RuffleCon has been a decent EGL community trend predictor in the past; the BtB secrets after the first RuffleCon called both the dominance of OTT classic over sweet and the emergence of religious motifs as a major trend. there were 0 boystyle vendors or programming the first year, even though Aerynsys was there with that one sock company and Scorpionstar was there with her artwork. the following year, brands that had ouji/oujiable clothing sold out of it instantly. the most recent year, Ikemen Mode debuted, and other clothing brands were present that also had more ouji stuff for sale. that year, a lot of oujis showed up for the ouji panel, but it was cancelled due to the organizer not making it to the convention.

as an attendee of three years, i was thrilled to see a couple oujis the first year, but by the third year it was no longer a big deal because there were so many milling around. there were more oujis there than styles such as mori or vkei, and i saw more ouji coords than oldschool lolita coords, even though the rate oldschool threads fly by here on /cgl/ would suggest a wider interest in it.

pulled these from Ikemon Mode's Insta pics of RuffleCon. their gilets and breeches were basic but well-constructed and available in a wide range of sizes. (if they ever update their shop, bigger boystylers will have good reason to rejoice; they have staples that would fit a European-sized male.) their booth was often busy and they seemed to do well.

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>>9375601
and some candids from their booth

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>>9375607

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>>9375610

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>>9375614

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>>9375616

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>>9375618

>>9375619
that is all i saved from them but i can hunt down more from official con photographers and amateur shots. there was a range of ouji substyles for a small, niche conference, which i believe says a lot about the general interest in the fashion and how it is growing.

>>9367164
He's certainly a looker, but I will never forget that super cringy "steal your boy" comic he made.

>>9377540
what comic?

>>9373811
I said clunky not chunky, and for the most part stylistically I think they don't work. The style of Mana's footwear is very different to Doc Martins.

>>9373829
I personally don't think this style is super great for Aristo either. Theres something just not right about them for the style. But that's just my two cents.

>>9377599
>>9377602
yo post some alternates, you gotta put your money where your mouth is, anon

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>>9380815
>>9373811


Can't help you with recs, but at least I can point out why the docs tend to look wrong.

These are the most sedate docs I could find. Now observe the thick rubber soles on the bottom of the shoes closely. Docs tend to be working shoes (or at least, they have that aesthetic), so those rubber soles tend to be really thick and chunky, on most docs the soles are up to a whole cm wider than the shoes themselves (it does make the shoe more stable, and to be really fair the older docs are very, very good working boots). And because this whole "working boots" thing is part of their aesthetic, not only do they do nothing to hide this huge-ass rugged sole, the modern docs you find tend to use contrasting colour, even contrasting stitching here to emphasise how utilitiarian the rubber bottoms are, which emphasises how much they're workmen's shoes.

Now consider Aristo and ouji, a fashion based on looking like a prince. It's superficial and impractical to the point of valuing beauty over form. We have useless jabots. Heat-trapping coats. Tall collars that block your peripheral view. Curtain trim on outfits. And you're going to match all of that with... workmen boots? C'mon, you want to look like you're going to the races to laugh at the hoi polloi, not roof some peasant's house. At least wear tall platforms that look like you might fall and break your neck, it goes better with all the other impractical things you're wearing.

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>>9380958
this makes sense, thank you - i did not notice that even the dressier docs in >>9373829 had soles wider than the shoe itself. cannot unsee

(though as a note of correction, "ouji" is like "lolita" in that its meaning as a fashion is not the same as its meaning in general discourse. that is, not every ouji coord need to aim for the "regal" aesthetic; Deorart's promo photos for their ouji items are more middle-class than aristocratic - though they are also not suitable workman's wear!)

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speaking of workwear, what does /ouG/ think about AatP's jumpsuits

>>9381752
Would look great with a bomber jacket.

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my Wunderwelt order just arrived. my impressions as i unpack:

the details on the Moitie blouse are amazing in person. there are some silver threads in some of the stripes. the bright silver-tone cross pin that comes with it (not pictured) is beautiful, but has a small flaw that will hopefully clean off. the extra buttons (a cross for the cuffs and a circular one for the front) are still attached to the care tag inside the shirt. the shirt is long and slim and the vertical stripes would flatter a slender person. the silver threads make it less suitable for casual wear than i expected, but the pretied necktie is removable and the blouse is thin enough for versatile layering options.

the lace on the h.Naoto cape is medium quality, and the collar can be worn without the cape part. the roses on the collar sort of shimmer in the light and sparkle in some areas, which, like the silver Moitie threads, is another unexpected detail. the materials used are not as nice as the Moitie, but is better quality than capelets sold in, say, Halloween stores or Hot Topic. mid-tier gothic quality, better than many Western brands but not as good as nicer Japanese ones.

the Boz blouse is another long, slim fit. even the ribbon under the pointed collar is better quality than the ribbon on the h. Naoto capelet! no noticeable yellowing on the collar, but the buttons are that sort of off-white shell/pearl look that i personally dislike against the white of the cuffs. the buttons down the front are a better choice, more shell-like and a sort of iridescent grey. one of each type is attached to the care tag and the grey is much cooler. the overall material of the blouse promises to wrinkle quickly and often.

i like all three items, and now that i have many blouses that are more my style i will be able to sell my starter blouses (mostly, an AatP men's Bear Paul blouse in black). i will let /ouG/ know when i list them, and can toss in some freebies for seagull buyers.

I'm starting to make my first ouji coordinate (long time lolita/vkei) and I'm planning a more punk themed one. Anyone know any pants/shorts that are good for this, but aren't pumpkin shorts?

>>9381741

Yeah, I struggled to get across the idea of how different the workmen's boots are to the more fantasy-like ouji, where even a Deorart middle class ouji looks like his one shoe costs more than my actual irl middle-class outfit. Took a shortcut in the end that I hoped made clear the differences at least.

Anyway, glad you found it helpful.

>>9382740
like specific items or general brands?

>>9380958
This is what I was meaning by clunky. Anon has hit the nail on the head perfectly here on why docs are not suitable for aristo or ouji, and are better suited to punk. For a perfect demonstration for this, look at the recent National Theatre production of Amadeus, where Mozart is portrayed as a Johnny Rotten type figure on brocade silks and pastel docs. It looks wrong, and inelegant. I'm a woman who wears guystyle asristo, so can't help a huge deal for large mens footwear, but I tend to prefer the Demonia platform boots and riding boot style flats. Some gothwear boots and shoes I think are as a whole the best suited, especially the sorts worn by Victoriana goth and some steampunkers. Even regular mens dressshoes don't capture the right feel I would say, it's something I see a lot with guy aristocrat wearers, ba footwear choices. I can't recommend any US based companies though.

>>9382818
>>9382818 (You)
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oeuIYyGdu_I

What I was meaning about the look in Amadeus. Yes, they were aiming for an anachronistic look anyway, but you can see here the disparity between elegant court dress and chunky footwear adding a level of scruffiness. The same effect would be seen if used in aristocrat or ouji, unless a punk lok was being aimed for in ouji.

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What do you all consider to be definite "don'ts" for the fashion?

>pic related

>>9384829
Don't stop believin

>>9384829
tight is ok, skintight is not. neither leggings nor bootyshorts are ok. even if a brand puts out short-short tight shorts. they are ita.

also, do not go without makeup and do not have unkempt hair, including facial hair.

gaping seams between buttons is inacceptable.

chubby oujis rarely look good in shorts above the knee, especially when wearing socks too tight. unflattering.

oujis should never refer to themselves as shota in public. keep your fetishes private.

do not wear bloomers as shorts.

when it comes to pumpkin pants, the material should be sturdy and not resemble underwear or roomwear. some Taobao brands release very short, thin pumpkin pants that are more suited for fairy kei or yumekawaii.

do not pile on random necklaces around your waist, head, etc. OTT is no excuse to get sloppy.

do not wear coords that would cause you to be mistaken for a butler, stage magician, or random steampunk LARPer.

do not wear ill-fitting, unflattering clothes. tailor your brand if you need to. a sloppy silhouette will ruin any coord.

do not be cheap about your hats. they are an item in which quality is easily apparent. you can get away with many kinds of cheap accessories, such as certain costume jewelry, but a cheap hat is worse than no hat at all.

do not skimp on shoes, either.

do not wear an unstyled wig with uncut bangs. limp eBay cosplay hair is ita.

do not buy those bunny mask brooches. they have reached a saturation point in boystyle coords. they are becoming our star clip. let the concept breathe for a while.

>>9385128
Ive seen examples of leggings/ jeggings being worn well in a casual look, with a Moitie gilet. If it's an outfit where it's a long top, such as some of those tunic tops Moitie have released, I think they can work, but it's rare they do. The picture posted is how not to wear them in ouji.

>>9385203
share em friend, i am curious and somewhat doubtful.

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>>9385128
>>9385864
Leggings can work, just you have to be careful and not do what that guy did. Here is an example.

I've noticed this as of late that a lot of men get shit on for the no makeup thing. What do you all think the bare minimum would consist of? Even wearing light eyeliner and doing brows don't seem to be enough for people. While I can do nothing to my hair and brows + light liner and never receive these comments.

>>9385875
I don't know. nayrt, but to me this just looks like they're missing part of their outfit.

>>9385875
>What do you all think the bare minimum would consist of? Even wearing light eyeliner and doing brows don't seem to be enough for people.
1. foundation is #1. BB cream is fine, too.
2. if you already wear makeup but get concrit that it is not enough, are there any aspects people focus most on? if not, you might benefit from a light contour to give your face definition, or just concealer or a tone corrector to even out blotchy skin/hide beard shadow.

>>9385875
also not a fan of the leggings here, but it is a bold choice so it is bound to run up against opposition. i am not sure if i dislike it because it looks bad or because it falls outside the range of what i think is acceptable for ouji.

>>9385887
Seconding foundation, adding that perhaps some brown/"natural nude" eyeshadow would be a good idea, too, to just highlight your eyes in a way that doesn't look too distracting.

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>>9385898
yes, agreed.

in general, unless you would like to aim for a gothic look, consider your basic aim to go from left to right in pic related. smooth, even skintone with defined eyes and neat brows is a good place to begin.

/ouG/,

i am disappointed that i have never gotten one of you in any of the gift exchanges. have you participated before? do you think you might? i have little fancy-manly gifts kicking around waiting for a giftee. i think i may host some manner of contest for this thread so i can clear them out. how bad of an idea is this?

>>9385864
There was an example in iirc a CoF thread recently, with a long Moitie gilet, and the leggings weren't massively visible under the long gilet and boots. It looked great. You don't want the crotch area on show a la Jareth, or like what Technotropism is doing here. In such cases it can work. Long gilet and a long tunic like what Mana wears for example at times in promo shots. Ive worn leggings with a Boz Andrew blouse and a Moitie gilet, and over the knee boots and very little of my legs end up on show. I'll try and hunt down the shot I saw. I'm not willing to self post sorry.

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>>9385983
I found this example, but don't really like it either. I feel like it runs into the same problem as the technotropism one.

>>9386197
I tried finding the example that was held up recently that worked but I can't find it again, sorry. That's really bugging me now.

>>9386197
I like this example much more, girls also have no 'bulge risk' so it's one less issue.

Does anyone here use Y! Auctions to buy aristo? How do you search? I've been poring over pages to find anything and turning up with no luck

>>9386621
i search by brand name, since the major brands are in English. they also have an auto-complete function so sometimes i type slowly to get the katakana option to pop up. (i.e. , "atoriebo" will bring up the katakana for Atelier Boz to select, "mowatie" will bring up Moitie's katakana.) i could also copy/paste the katakana but for me, the phonetic typing is easier.

what have you tried so far?

>>9386621
I usually go by the brand name.

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Am I the only who likes how dudes look in the "boyish" ouji style? I think it's adorable on certain guys.

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>>9386934

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>>9386938
A lot of people say men should stick to the more manly or mature ouji styles, but I can find so many examples of what looks like decent, cute male ouji. It really depends on the individual. It helps to have a gentle or open face, I think.

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>>9386590
This one?

>>9386940
>It really depends on the individual.
bingo

>>9387152
oh, that does look alright. the closed front helps.

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Triple Fortune ouji! I dig the velvet

>>9387152
Yup that's the one I was referring to. For a more casual look this does seem to work fine.

protip for oujis doing that "hand extended in front of you with fingers curled or outstretched" pose: this is meant to be a gesture of invitation, like "take my hand," so be careful how high you hold your hand or you'll look a bit daft

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When is Moitie's next collection happening? Nothing has been released in ages

>>9393270
Moitie is dead

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>>9396089
Shut your heretic mouth

production might have slowed but bag related was re-released to meet demand recently

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>>9397297
also posting some rare EGA-Mana to spread the birthday love

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>>9397300

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>>9397305

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>>9397307

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>>9397955

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>>9397962

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>>9397968

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>>9397970

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>>9398069
EGA GET BACK ON THE FRONT PAGE

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>>9389581
I prefer to sniff my pits in photos

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/ouG/, say something, i'm giving up on you

look at technotropism's beard, isn't it interesting. do you miss the cohesive Palace of Princes crowd or nah?

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this is cute

>>9404652
ded thred, just give up.

>tfw can't be sexy aristo
>tfw even if I got aristo clothes, I won't be able to join lolita comms because I'll be a nobody from nowhere barging in
>tfw qt lolita I want to pair with dun wanna.

Vun day, I shall be ze best arizto in ze verld and be ze deesteengvished guest ad all ze lolita comms in ze verld!

>>9404979
You'd be kept out of comms for typing like an idiot more than anything.
On a more serious note: Excuses will lead you nowhere. Oujis and aristocrats can and are accepted into lolita communities all the time, either buck up and get into it or keep whining about how you can't do this and can't do that. Up to you, anon.

>>9404652
It's interesting but a clean shave flatters him more imo. His hair looks much better though.

>>9405011
>You'd be kept out of comms for typing like an idiot more than anything.

Well shucks, anon, I didn't mean to get your frills in a jam; I was just being a bit playful. I hadn't realized that this was a No Fun Allowed zone.

As for the joining comms part, /cgl/ makes it seem like male oujis or aristos aren't really welcome unless they're someone's boyfriend/husband. Seems to be a lot of hate for men "shoehorning" their way into comms, even if they genuinely just like the fashion.

I planned to ask some of the lolitas I know from the local cons to see how it really is like before I give up, but the sort of commentary I've read about the issue on /cgl/ is quite disheartening. Not that I plan to join a con any time soon (need to verify my tastes being adequate first), anyways.

>>9405033
As one of a few males in my comm, I've been accepted pretty well. I've made some pretty good friends there and at least they like having me around. If anybody doesn't like me there, they certainly haven't made it obvious.

>>9405033
The only comments I've seen about not accepting guys into comms were about random normies, cosplayers, weebs, and the general >tfw no cgl gf type, never about guys who are genuinely interested in fashion. You'll be fine.

>>9405033
>/cgl/ makes it seem like male oujis or aristos aren't really welcome unless they're someone's boyfriend/husband.
male ouji here, had 0 friends in the scene and was nobody's SO when i joined. members of my comm like me anyway, enough to seek my company outside of comm meets. you may not be welcome by every single member, but nobody is liked by everybody.

/cgl/ amplifies dissenting voices and can make rare opinions seem common. it is the nature of the beast

>feels bad because I have a really feminine body I would look shit in boystyle
>I like it a lot though
>sad

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>>9405306
>you may not be welcome by every single member, but nobody is liked by everybody.
additionally, some members may seem to dislike you at first. newbies often feel left out, and men especially might need to attend a few meets before connecting. it is likely that, even if you are sincere and non-creepy, it may take time for members to warm up to you. don't make a big deal out of your maleness and don't be flirty during meets, just be chill as you can and friendly.

>>9405315
what kind? curvy? short? large breasts? need some feminine-shaped ouji inspo? what substyle do you like (classic, gothic, sweey)?

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>>9405954
>sweey
*sweet, obviously

another feminine ouji silhouette

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>>9405956
and a feminine casual aristocrat silhouette in the "homme" style

these 3 are just examples, lemme know what your ideal look is and i probably have or can find more.

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dumping coords from Omnia Vanitas

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>>9407516
i don't like this one but it is their first try

>>9407519

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>>9407520

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>>9407521

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>>9407522

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>>9407520
better version

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>>9407526

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>>9407531

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>>9407535
w e w l a d s

>>9404652
Uhg. I want to hold his hand. o_o

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Thoughts?

http://www.paradisofor.us/midwest-ouji-sama/

The competition is based on your coordinate, a Q&A, and your ability to woo a "princess" in 90 seconds. I am not sure if that is more cute or cringe. I hope there will be video.

>>9407537
Old nigga on the left is killing it

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more Omnia Vanitas

>>9408721
would be fun to participate in but kind of weird that ouji is always semi-sexual/romantic

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>>9408800

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>>9408801

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>>9408804

SURVEY

>How tall are you?
>How much do you weigh?
>Do you prefer classic, gothic, or sweet?
>Is your style more masculine or more feminine?
>Do you prefer a simple silhouette or a complex one?
>Is your wardrobe mostly brand, indie brand, off-brand, or handmade?
>What does your wardrobe need most?
>Do you have a dream item?

Thanks in advance

>>9409639
>How tall are you?
5'10"
>How much do you weigh?
150 lbs
>Do you prefer classic, gothic, or sweet?
Gothic
>Is your style more masculine or more feminine?
Masculine, but I do love me some frills.
>Do you prefer a simple silhouette or a complex one?
Complex I guess, I prefer more OTT stuff.
>Is your wardrobe mostly brand, indie brand, off-brand, or handmade?
About 1/3 brand, 1/3 taobao, and 1/3 F+F. Soon to be some hand-made stuff as well.
>What does your wardrobe need most?
Some OTT jackets, I want to be more like Kamijo.
>Do you have a dream item?
Not really anything that I'm dying to have, but since it's so hard to find OTT stuff, I'm resorting to making my own. I also want some more white pieces.

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>>9409639
>How tall are you?
5'9ft
>How much do you weigh?
128
>Do you prefer classic, gothic, or sweet?
Gothic and Classic
>Is your style more masculine or more feminine?
I'd say it's in the middle, but I lean masculine.
>Do you prefer a simple silhouette or a complex one?
I like simple for everyday but I do have a love for complex ones as well.
>Is your wardrobe mostly brand, indie brand, off-brand, or handmade?
Mostly brand, I do have some indie brand stuff but the majority is Boz, AaTP and MmM.
>What does your wardrobe need most?
Color and more accessories.
>Do you have a dream item?
Yes, Boz Roland in green.

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>>9409639
>How tall are you?
5'6
>How much do you weigh?
115lbs
>Do you prefer classic, gothic, or sweet?
I feel like ouji doesn't fit as well into these categories, but I guess I wear gothic. I like classic best out of lolita, though.
>Is your style more masculine or more feminine?
I think I wear a lot of the more feminine pieces in a masculine way, if that makes any sense
>Do you prefer a simple silhouette or a complex one?
I think I suit simple coords better, and while I think coords with things like crimson jack and captain hollow are really cool, they venture too much into costume territory for me, and I find myself feeling silly in them. I find that my pirate hats and captain jackets are collecting dust as I lean more and more towards things I can wear outside of meets.
>Is your wardrobe mostly brand, indie brand, off-brand, or handmade?
Almost all brand, acquired mostly secondhand. I've never tried any taobao stuff, though I'd like to for more reasonable sizes.
>What does your wardrobe need most?
Hats and jabots, two items that seem impossible to find. I've resorted to making my own.
>Do you have a dream item?
I haven't been able to find a men's roland in ages, jacquard black would be ideal. Otherwise, probably some things from h.Naoto frill that I haven't been able to find anywhere, pic related. My previous dream item was the tourinot vest.. I guess I don't ask for much. It's so sleek and versatile, I love it.

>>9409639
>How tall are you?
5'7"
>How much do you weigh?
115lb
>Do you prefer classic, gothic, or sweet?
It's hard to define ouji by these categories, but I want to say gothic even though I have some outfits that could be sweet or classic.
>Is your style more masculine or more feminine?
I like things tight at the waist and above the knee, so feminine? I like androgyny.
>Do you prefer a simple silhouette or a complex one?
I like to look at complex but wear simple.
>Is your wardrobe mostly brand, indie brand, off-brand, or handmade?
A fairly even blend of each. I have more brand lolita items for sure.
>What does your wardrobe need most?
Headwear, neckwear, and blouses.
>Do you have a dream item?
Kind of poor right now so I have a lot. A Roland for sure, AATP guilty meltin sweets set, AP horror bat blouse, and I really want to modify a Holy Lantern OP into a shirt.

>>9409639

>How tall are you?
5'1"
>How much do you weigh?
99 lbs
>Do you prefer classic, gothic, or sweet?
More gothic. But classic when wearing white coords.
>Is your style more masculine or more feminine?
I would say more androgyne.
>Do you prefer a simple silhouette or a complex one?
I think I prefer more simple for gothic but sometimes I wear more accessories if it compliments the coord (pirate etc.).
>Is your wardrobe mostly brand, indie brand, off-brand, or handmade?
Mostly handmade, I have few brand pieces and taobao shirts.
>What does your wardrobe need most?
Never enough vests and coats. And shorts definitely.
>Do you have a dream item?
Aatp fjord set in red.

If the trend holds, we can expect new Moitie in May or June. For the last couple years, they usually release aristo items around then.

>>9409639
>How tall are you?
164 cm
>How much do you weigh?
52 kg
>Do you prefer classic, gothic, or sweet?
Goth
>Is your style more masculine or more feminine?
Masculine
>Do you prefer a simple silhouette or a complex one?
Simple, aristocrat is my everyday clothes
>Is your wardrobe mostly brand, indie brand, off-brand, or handmade?
Japanese brands for clothes, local antique stores and handmade for accessories.
>What does your wardrobe need most?
It needs me to get over myself and learn to sew jackets and draft trouser patterns.
>Do you have a dream item?
Yes but it's all original designs far above my own level

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h. Naoto vest with a 72-90cm waist, $120ish

http://hnaoto.shop/goth/jackets-outers/csd21-h020-bk-m.html

model is 170cm

>>9409639
>How tall are you?
5'4"
>How much do you weigh?
111lb
>Do you prefer classic, gothic, or sweet?
I wear all 3, but I'd say I like classic the most.
>Is your style more masculine or more feminine?
I try to keep it pretty androgynous.
>Do you prefer a simple silhouette or a complex one?
Most of the time, I prefer a simple, clean silhouette. You can still have lots of complex details within a simple silhouette.
>Is your wardrobe mostly brand, indie brand, off-brand, or handmade?
It's mostly brand, with some off-brand/indie accessories.
>What does your wardrobe need most?
Blouses that aren't black or white. More accessories would probably be good too.
>Do you have a dream item?
I've gotten a couple of my dream pieces already, but I'd really like to have a blue textured Roland.

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old school ouji had some weird-ass hats

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>>9413623
did Bodyline ruin these kind of slouchy cloth hats forever? they seem like a good option for casual wear

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>>9413637
kek @ top center ouji's hat, that one is a bit extra

SUPER cheap men's AatP up on fururun, including this black blouse for 1500 yen:

http://www.fururun.com/sa_az/shop.cgi?order=&class=all&keyword=2017%2F3%2F28&FF=0&price_sort=&pic_only=&mode=p_wide&id=10758&superkey=1

also a nice vest and one of those pirate coats

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Is it true that ouji are extra gay?

>>9417157
no

stop sexualising us

>>9409639
>How tall are you?
5'6" / 167 cm

>How much do you weigh?
130lbs / 58.9kg (down from 140)

>Do you prefer classic, gothic, or sweet?
gothic 100%

>Is your style more masculine or more feminine?
masculine-androgynous

>Do you prefer a simple silhouette or a complex one?
complex. i like asymmetry and deconstruction

>Is your wardrobe mostly brand, indie brand, off-brand, or handmade?
brand with offbrand / handmade / indie accessories

>What does your wardrobe need most?
vests and long gilets

>Do you have a dream item?
no. an h. Naoto dracon scale vest and hat would be great but i can live well without

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>>9418681
>dracon
*dragon

vest related

>>9418681
>h. Naoto dragon hat

?? Do you have pics, anon?

>>9418682
Holy god damn I want that now.

>>9418688
https://egl.circlly.com/auctions/h-naoto-seven-dragon-top-hat

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>mfw searching for inspo and pass a post where someone calls ouji "a mix of kodona, aristocrat, and gothic lolita"

i have never been so triggered in my life

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This sketch looks promising. Since the theme is butterfly, it might have some bright colors.

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>collecting ouji scans
>the kanji for ouji is burned into my retinas

check this out, an ouji coord in a men's fashion magazine (Men's Spider/mensupa)

most of the street fashion Japanese men's mags i have found scans for seem to be all about that host life, featuring basic bitch coords complete with spray tans and gyaru-o style hair

so running into pic related was nice

>ouji posts in CoF
>thirsty lolitas act thirsty
>a couple oujis pointedly leave respectful, neutral comments

I see what you did there guys

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Will minihats ever be okay

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>>9419783
it's fucking gorgeous

>>9426312
everything is ok if you believe

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>>9426325
back view of white version

getting all h. Naoto up in here

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>>9426329
something fun for you crazy AatP hat lovers

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>>9426331
pant cuff detailing, black colorway

also, this Papillon set is available in both sizes

****DEAL ALERT****

¥6480 IW bustier and pants set: http://www.maidenclothing.net/script/detail.php?id=154070472001

small waist but wide hips & chest (for brand)

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Sweet print in multiple colorways from Maxicimam

I've been having some difficulty figuring out sizing with deorart.
Do they measure in centimeters or inches?

>>9427331
probably centimeters, since they are a japanese brand. what site are you using?

>>9427016

Wow, something from Maxicimam that I don't completely hate at first sight.

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>>9427402
how about with the capelet?

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>>9421622
also found ouji in Pop Teen, which i thought was more of a gyaru mag.

it calls the coord with short denim pants "casual ouji"

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Facial hair in ouji done okay

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>>9429609
Facial hair in ouji done wrong

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new design in progress from IM, but stil nothing new on their webstore.

will come in ivory and black

>>9426331
I don't know if I hate it or need it.

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The key to sweet ouji is to stop thinking of it as "dressing like a child."

Incoming sweet mini dump

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>>9433561

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>>9433570

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>>9433575

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>>9433577

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>>9433580

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>>9433589

>>9433561
I don't think many people who actually wear ouji think of the sweet style as "dressing like a child." It seems to be mostly just taobao brands, and people who think sweet ouji has to be pastel. Thanks for the dump though!

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>>9426331
and here it is worn

>>9434273
yeah, it is more the kodona crowd and basic lolitas who make that assumption

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I bet YOU never thought of wearing your jabot like an epaulette

Boz have had their AM fashion show, with some good looks (although I'm not entirely sure on some of the choices of footwear working). There is one unfortunate up-skirt shot though on one of the dresses, especially as it looks a little short on the model. The photos are on the Nagoya store blog on Fb. I can't link directly, sorry.

Is casual ouji a thing?

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>>9439725
definitely. how casual are you thinking?

>>9436582
this has got to be the weirdest AM shill i have encountered.

>>9440533
I mentioned this as it's got a mix of some nice pieces with some decent styling mixed with poor styling, and guys with face fuzz,as has been discussed earlier here. I just find it sad that Boz keep working with AM after the shit they pull.

Buttcape updates the Overview: http://buttcape.blogspot.com/2017/04/the-new-ouji-overview-part-1-terminology.html?m=1

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legit laughed out loud at this SUPER CLASSIC ouji coord from KERA December 2013.

find me a more fabulous ouji coord. protip: you can't.

>>9444254
How many curtains is that model wearing

I'm about to just give up and do brolita. It's so hard to find good ouji stuff. I just want to look cute.

>>9446758
iktf

ouji needs more DIY and creativity than lolita due to the dearth of options

>>9444254
That "Chinese Emperor" cape thing came up on Closetchild not long ago, it was very... tempting...

>>9436524
don't give me bad ideas pls
(yes I'm the same as reply above, I read threads from the bottom and up)

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>>9447112
>>9447113
you are the freethinker ouji-kei needs

so here is another SUPER CLASSIC coord, complete with neck ruff

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>>9447589
and a SUPER SWEET coord because you need to appreciate the full photo spread

Anyone have a guide on exercises to do to look more feminine?

>>9450035
are you asking for the trap aesthetics meme? it is not real

otherwise, some general tips:

>get into a good skincare routine
>wear at least minimal makeup (foundation, concealer, eyeliner/shadow)
>do squats to have a better ass
>take up minimal space with your body language

maybe check the crossdressing thread for more tips. if you want to know how to do more feminine ouji this thread may be more helpful, but otherwise the crossdress thread may be your guide

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new classic sailor from Excentrique

>>9447589
>>9447592
fuck I love ruffs and I love velvet, when I take the time to make one I'll dedicate it to you anon, oh feeder of my wacky tastes

>>9452081
*make a velvet ruff

What are people's preferred makeup options for boystyle? There seems to be a huge range from minimal contour and a bit of eyeliner all the way up to a full face of feminine makeup.

>>9452217
I wear eyeliner and that's it

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>>9452081
do it!

>>9452217
i wear gothic, and will have primer, foundation, pale powder, eyeliner, and contour at minimum. when i have time, i like to experiment with Mehron clown white, eyeshadows, liners and mascara of different colors, and different lip products.

and you?

>>9452316
why skip foundation if you do not mind my asking?

>>9452217
I do foundation, contouring, eyebrows, eyeliner and mascara.

>>9452217
i usually wear foundation, eyeliner, maybe a bit of shadow. sometimes i'll fill in my eyebrows or beard a bit to make them look sharper, depending on length and how i'm doing my hair

>>9452350
Wow look at the difference the eye makeup makes! I've only worn ouji once so far and did minimal makeup, so only a bit of eyeshadow, standard foundation, eyebrows, liner.
I'm asking mainly because I'm going to a fairly big meet tomorrow in quite a fancy boystyle coord and I've seen a few other oujis like aerynsys and another ouji on tumblr do a full face including lashes and obvious lip colour, it seems to be quite uncommon though? I'm a girl for reference.

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>>9453286
foundation and eyeliner transform anybody into a better version of themselves.

i think individual taste varies but ouji makeup tutorials from the GLB and KERA tend to go with a fresh-faced look. even their tuts for gothic ouji are seldom heavy, compared to tuts for punk or gothic mode.

(mode on left, ouji on right, with female models)

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>>9453337
and here is a less feminine look from Akira

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>>9453338
>mfw that's a hair tutorial

derp

>>9453340
Still really helpful to see these scans even if they're not intended for makeup.
I am still undecided how much makeup to wear tomorrow desu because I tend to like my face best with huge amounts of it on when I'm in lolita? But all of this input is very helpful to see close ups. I went loozing through buttcapes blog for the makeup post in the ouji overview and couldn't find it

>>9452350
Apart from some acne that I've accepted as a part of my life, I don't think I need foundation. I'm into the dead and decaying look. Also I have some undiagnosed, undefined sensitivity issue with my skin, I wore foundation for a con fashion show once - never again

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>>9453386
hopefully she will readd it, might try leaving a comment to request it!

here is another, which compares gothic make for ouji and lolita

>>9453789
that sucks. if you change your mind the makeup thread or skincare thread might be able to help you figure out the sensitivity thing - makeup is a blast to play around with

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>>9454066
and another for a sweeter/"shiny" look comparison

>>9453789
I know how you feel about the foundation issue. I'm allergic to even the most hypoallergenic of foundations (I've tried various ones with the same result), due to super sensitive skin and eczema. The only makeup I can get away with wearing is eye liner and eye shadow, very rarely the odd touch of mascara. As soon as even the lightest of foundation powders goes near my skin and wham! a flare up happens within a couple of hours at the very longest. I had a severe allergic reaction to Aveeno lotion a few years ago, and it sent my skin's hypersensivity through the roof. My skin's scarred from the eczema, but there's not much I can do, sadly, and trying to cover it only makes it worse.

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new sweet release from AatP

>>9455757
The front of that thing looks like a hot mess

>>9455757
Damn this looks cheap af, like an ouji Milanoo collab. I wonder if it'll be better irl like most aatp is

>>9455757
But I mean the socks look alright

>>9455889
>closely-spaced horizontal stripes
>"all right"

>>9455757
This is utterly hideous. The lacing details on the bodice front, the ms-matched sailor top collar, and the ridiculously oversized pockets... just urgh.

>>9456050
>ridiculously oversized pockets
that's cause their bags don't fit shit

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how have your favorite oujis changed since you have gotten into the fashion? i think Bakasoseji's style has evolved well over the years while remaining his own flavor of ouji. although he still conceals his face with his hair and filters, he also uses makeup that accentuates the angularity now and is less focused on a cute look.

>>9456867
I think his eye makeup is pretty cringey these days.

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concealer lips: yea or nay?

If this is a noobie question, tell me to gtfo, but this style of fashion is hard to find info on.
So I've been steadily lifting for a year now, and still growing, how small are the chances of me finding any brand in my size?

I know the "no-fatty" rule, but does this mean I'll have to either kill all my gains or just learn to handsew everything?

>>9456867
He became a cosplayer and started using cosplay makeup

>>9457975
how wide are your shoulders? in centimeters. generally, for Japanese brands you are unlikely to find anything more than 42cm across, but there are indie brands that offer larger or custom sizing.

>>9458356
not the same anon, but how about 44 cm shoulders?

>>9458571
that might be too much, but it depends on brand and item. most that do men's sizes average around 40cm for blouses and maybe a couple more for jackets. vests or gilets might work if your waist is not much more than 80cm around.

>>9458695
isn't 40 cms is very narrow? how do you measure shoulders anyway

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>>9458897
by googling, mostly

seam to seam across the back of shirt. these are Japanese sizes so they will be small for European populations. that is where indie brands and offbrand come into play.

>>9458931
>>9458356
If the 42 cm mark is anything to go by I'm already far out of the game. I love powerlifting and play rugby, my shoulders are my biggest muscle group together with my lats.

Not sure if I did it right but I got pretty far over 50cm, so I think I'm going to have to learn to sew this stuff myself.

>>9459327
go for it

keep an eye on Ikemen Mode, whenever they stock their store they will have larger sizes. Elegy may also go pretty wide. both are English-language indie brands so you can communicate directly with them.

>>9458931
Seriously 42 cms anon? That is scarily short and on the female territory and I don't have the widest shoulder.

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>>9459377
>scarily short
Asians are short

here is a tall dude wearing a mens sized brand jacket (Atelier Boz). notice its snugness around his armpits

new thread >>9460968

this one did not hit autosage but that glitched OP needs to die already